[12:52] <pwnguin> grr. stupid network manager keyring
[12:53] <pwnguin> for the love of god, it's just a wep key, why bother protecting that?
[12:54] <pwnguin> hurray for upstairs neighbors with open APs
[12:59] <pwnguin> wth, ubuntu-desktop is being removed on dist-upgrade?
[01:00] <pwnguin> is there a way to get apt to explain the upgrade reasoning?
[01:01] <Pici> aptitude seems to attempt to explain it
[01:01] <pwnguin> i think gimp is conflicting with gimp print
[01:01] <Pici> also bug 121782
[01:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121782 in human-theme "human-theme_0.7_all.deb: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/themes/Human/cursor.theme', which is also in package human-cursors-theme" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121782
[01:05] <pwnguin> i wonder if it needs to conflict with cursors
[01:05] <pwnguin> there should probably also be a diversion
[01:10] <pwnguin> someone look at the manpage for aptitude real quick -- is it just me or are some formatting characters being shown?
[01:11] <Pici> like \fBinstall\fR
[01:12] <pwnguin> yea
[01:15] <Pici> hmm.. I wonder if its a man bug, or a aptitude bug..
[01:16] <pwnguin> or just some terminal setting
[01:20] <pwnguin> its a bug in aptitude
[01:20] <pwnguin> #116946
[01:20] <pwnguin> bug #116946
[01:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116946 in aptitude "[gutsy]  bolding is broken in manual page" [Unknown,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116946
[01:20] <Pici> Well then. I can stop looking now.
[01:24] <pwnguin> Pici: i cant be sure yet, but i think the solution is to remove cursors package
[01:33] <terlmann>  I have feisty and dri enabled , but after a crash my framerates in 3d apps have dropped to nul
[01:33] <terlmann> I know this does not belong in +1
[01:34] <terlmann> but the experts live here
[01:34] <terlmann> And I doubt anyone else can even diagnose my issue
[01:36] <terlmann>  I have feisty and dri enabled , but after a crash my framerates in 3d apps have dropped to nul
[01:36] <terlmann> can you help me ?
[03:48] <BotLobsta> anyone know how to mount a usb drive?
[03:48] <BotLobsta> i seem to be missing the devices in /dev
[03:52] <BotLobsta> can anyone help?
[04:10] <pwnguin> where's the best place to ask about init?
[04:11] <crdlb> pwnguin, #upstart ?
[04:11] <pwnguin> im browsing some bootcharts from the past month, and there's a couple of places where it just seems to pause
[04:14] <pwnguin> modprobe seems to have a lot of uninterruptible sleep, but i guess there's not much to be done about that
[04:16] <pwnguin> there
[04:28] <DanaG> Bug: gnome-power-manager repeatedly turns off backlight.
[04:29] <DanaG> s/bug/bug report/
[04:32] <pwnguin> not a bug
[04:32] <pwnguin> or at least, its also a feature
[04:33] <pwnguin> there's an idle timeout that dims the screen
[04:34] <pwnguin> grr. its a bit annoying to see that over the last month, my boot time has gone from 35 seconds to 54 >:O
[04:35] <Toma-> 19 seconds of your day, ruined!
[04:36] <DanaG> But it switches brightness 3 times when switching from AC -> Battery, or vice versa.
[04:36] <pwnguin> i should have boot chart notify me when it happens so i might have a clue why it happened, instead of me just looking ten days later and seeing a depressing chart
[04:36] <DanaG> And when it tries to change brightness, it instead turns the backlight entirely OFF.
[04:36] <pwnguin> DanaG: do brightness controls generally work on your laptop?
[04:37] <BotLobsta> whenever i start ubuntu, udevd takes over my processor with subprocesses watershed and evms_activate.  What do these do, and why wont they stop?
[04:37] <DanaG> They work in 2.6.20 perfectly, and in 2.6.22 they work if nothing tries to use /sys/class/backlight.
[04:38] <DanaG> The new backlight sysfs support for the ACPI Video module doesn't work as well as /proc/acpi/video.
[04:38] <pwnguin> BotLobsta: try "man evms_activate"
[04:39] <DanaG> !cat /proc/acpi/video/VGA/LCD/brightness
[04:39] <DanaG> argh, pidgin crashed.
[04:39] <BotLobsta> pwnguin,  but why is it running after /etc/fstab has been read?
[04:39] <DanaG> levels:  100 37 12 25 37 50 62 75 87 100
[04:39] <DanaG> current: 100
[04:40] <DanaG> But /sys/class/backlight doesn't offer the discrete levels, so GPM tries to use increments of 1.
[04:40] <pwnguin> BotLobsta: not a clue
[04:41] <pwnguin> what's with the levels not being sorted?
[04:41] <DanaG> According to ACPI spec, the first two show what the defaults for AC and battery are.
[04:41] <pwnguin> ah
[04:41] <BotLobsta> hmm
[04:42] <DanaG> I actually looked up the spec during Edgy, when brightness-up merely crashed xorg, and brightness-down did nothing whatsoever.
[04:42] <pwnguin> mreely
[04:43] <DanaG> Here's the keys-not-working cause and fix (now fixed.)
[04:43] <DanaG> http://www.ttuttle.net/blog/computers
[04:43] <BotLobsta> could this be why none of my usb drives mount?
[04:43] <BotLobsta> or rather, why i dont have a /dev device for any usb port?
[04:43] <pwnguin> im pretty sure hal creates those dynamically
[04:43] <pwnguin> /sys has entries for your ports, surely
[04:45] <DanaG> "Dim display brightness by" 25% -- seems to mean to set to 75%.
[04:46] <DanaG> should be s/by/to/
[04:46] <DanaG> Oh wait, it DOES subtract.
[04:52] <DanaG> or powersaved and acpi-support
[04:52] <pwnguin> i should probably go through and clean this install up
[04:52] <DanaG> There seem to be duplicated config options.
[04:53] <pwnguin> Filename: pool/universe/t/transset/transset_0.1.0+cvs.20041114-0ubuntu2_i386.deb
[04:57] <DanaG> Any idea when compiz-fusion-plugins-{main,extra} will appear on the repos?
[04:58] <BotLobsta> compiz-fusion-plugins-main is already there
[05:02] <DanaG> When did it appear?  If it was today, then I simply didn't notice it.
[05:02] <DanaG> I don't see it.
[05:03] <DanaG> od...
[05:03] <DanaG> aptitude install compiz-fusion<tab> lists it,
[05:03] <DanaG> but it doesn't appear in 'aptitude' (no parameters, to use GUI).
[05:04] <DanaG> s/od/odd/
[05:05] <Pici> No candidate version found for compiz-fusion-plugins-main
[05:07] <dcsmith> Does anyone know if the gutsy kernel has support for the macbook camera?
[05:08] <DanaG> No current or candidate version found for compiz-fusion-plugins-main
[05:08] <DanaG> Package: compiz-fusion-plugins-main
[05:08] <DanaG> State: not a real package
[05:09] <BotLobsta> hmmm
[05:09] <BotLobsta> youre right
[05:09] <DanaG> that's aptitude show.
[05:09] <BotLobsta> i never tried to install it
[05:10] <DanaG> I'm fine with Beryl for now.
[05:10] <BotLobsta> i just saw that it existed in the package list
[05:10] <DanaG> Plus, there are some things I'll miss from beryl: namely, the name.  (/me facefaults at the pun)
[05:12] <DanaG> pavucontrol: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libpangomm-1.4.so.1: undefined symbol: _ZN4Glib13wrap_registerEmPFPNS_10ObjectBaseEP8_GObjectE
[05:16] <BotLobsta> anyone know what this error message means from dmesg
[05:16] <BotLobsta> [ 3429.740000]  usb 3-1: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 53
[05:16] <BotLobsta>  [ 3430.148000]  usb 3-1: device not accepting address 53, error -71
[05:23] <DanaG> paman: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libglademm-2.4.so.1: undefined symbol: _ZN4Glib5Class21register_derived_typeEm
[05:23] <DanaG> Something is borked.
[05:34] <DanaG> How would I go about fixing that error?
[05:40] <khermans> is everyone else's gnome completely messed up ?
[05:58] <xsacha> hey, just got new kernel in upgrade.. no probs with it right?
[05:58] <xsacha> btw, any fix for adept?
[05:58] <pwnguin> huh. i removed a few dozen transitional packages, one package that moved from main to universe, and ran "profile" on boot, and it's back down to 35 seconds =/
[05:59] <xsacha> which package?
[06:00] <pwnguin> ivman
[06:00] <pwnguin> this is kind of an old, old install.
[06:01] <pwnguin> (i found a x package from 2004 for transparencies installed as well_
[06:02] <xsacha> amarok 1.4.6 is really nice :)
[06:02] <pwnguin> i get by with rhythmbox well enough
[06:03] <xsacha> maybe if i was using gnome..
[06:03] <DanaG> That's also the reason I got my iAudio6.  Folder views, not just tagged views.
[06:03] <pwnguin> well, i dont own an ipod
[06:03] <pwnguin> i guess that helps
[06:03] <xsacha> i just really like this last.fm integration and being able to check the lyrics and artist at a click
[06:04] <xsacha> and my playlist is much faster now (was thing i didnt like before)
[06:04] <xsacha> moodbar is cool but i think i'll get over it
[06:05] <pwnguin> i think they do about the same thing
[06:05] <pwnguin> one feature i do use and wish was better, is the filtering
[06:06] <pwnguin> i basically have a large library of CDs, which includes some OSTs. the OSTs have some drama tracks
[06:07] <xsacha> OSTs are what?
[06:07] <pwnguin> original sound tracks
[06:07] <xsacha> k
[06:08] <pwnguin> also, the tenacious D album has these dialogs
[06:09] <pwnguin> so ive got an automatic playlist set up
[06:14] <pwnguin> i add new stuff, and it cuts out the junk ;)
[06:14] <xsacha> junk?
[06:17] <pwnguin> xsacha: dialog tracks, short goofy tracks, etc
[06:52] <semistud2354> The APT Database could not be opened! This may be caused by incorrect APT configuration or some similar problem. Try running apt-setup and apt-get update in terminal and see if it helps to resolve the problem.
[06:52] <semistud2354> im getting this problem does anyone have any suggestions
[06:52] <semistud2354> on how to fix it
[07:12] <DanaG> pavucontrol: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libglademm-2.4.so.1: undefined symbol: _ZN4Glib5Class21register_derived_typeEm
[07:12] <DanaG> paman: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libglademm-2.4.so.1: undefined symbol: _ZN4Glib5Class21register_derived_typeEm
[07:12] <DanaG> same error, by the way.
[07:13] <crimsun> file a bug, please.  I'll look into it later.
[07:16] <DanaG> What would I title it?
[07:18] <crimsun> Current gusty /usr/lib/libglademm-2.4.so.1 references missing _ZN4Glib5Class21register_derived_typeEm
[07:19] <DanaG> While I'm at it, I might as well file a different bug about the brightness control.
[07:24] <DanaG> Hmm, paprefs: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libgconfmm-2.6.so.1: undefined symbol: _ZN4Glib13wrap_registerEmPFPNS_10ObjectBaseEP8_GObjectE
[07:25] <DanaG> Would I attach that to the same bug, or a different one?
[07:28] <crimsun> these are all bugs against the appropriate pa* source packages.
[07:28] <crimsun> pavucontrol, paman, paprefs
[07:29] <DanaG> Use commas to separate, then?
[07:29] <crimsun> no
[07:29] <DanaG> Or the metapackage pulseaudio-utils
[07:29] <crimsun> pick one of those as the primary, then add separate tasks for the remaining two
[07:30] <crimsun> "Also affects Distribution"
[07:30] <crimsun> choose Ubuntu, then the appropriate source package name I've given you
[07:31] <DanaG> Since there are two different libraries at issue, should I change the title?
[07:32] <crimsun> file two separate bugs.
[07:33] <DanaG> Okay.
[07:35] <DanaG> I just noticed in gutsy-changes: gran paradiso alpha, and compiz-fusion-plugins-*.  Cool, now I know I just have to wait a little while for them to be built.
[07:37] <crimsun> which bug is the first one?
[07:37] <crimsun> meaning bug #
[07:38] <DanaG> 121831
[07:38] <crimsun> bug 121831
[07:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121831 in pavucontrol "Current gusty /usr/lib/libglademm-2.4.so.1 missing _ZN4Glib5Class21register_derived_typeEm" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121831
[07:40] <DanaG> second:
[07:40] <DanaG> bug 121832
[07:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121832 in paprefs "Current gusty /usr/lib/libgconfmm-2.6.so.1 missing _ZN4Glib13wrap_registerEmPFPNS_10ObjectBaseEP8_GObjectE" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121832
[07:42] <DanaG> I think I'll write up the brightness-control bug now.  However, which package to attach it to is slightly uncertain:
[07:42] <DanaG> It's gnome-power-manager, plus the kernel /sys/class/backlight/
[07:43] <crimsun> both.
[07:44] <DanaG> Okay.
[07:56] <pwnguin> has anyone seen this? http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/quirk/index.html
[08:00] <crimsun> DanaG: what're your /proc/asound/card0/codec* contents?
[08:01] <crimsun> (unrelated, I need it for comparison)
[08:03] <DanaG> should I /msg, or pastebin?
[08:03] <crimsun> latter
[08:04] <DanaG> http://paste.stgraber.org/1762
[08:04] <DanaG> (used pipe and pastebinit)
[08:09] <DanaG> I still don't have input working, and pc-speaker beep is not passed through once the driver loads -- but compared to Dell, that might be considered a "feature".
[08:39] <DanaG> bug 121833
[08:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121833 in linux-source-2.6.22 "LCD backlight turns off between brightness levels." [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121833
[08:40] <DanaG> I may edit the description to say "at idle or when on battery" to convey a bit more urgency.
[08:46] <DanaG> bug 121833
[08:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121833 in linux-source-2.6.22 "LCD backlight turns off when at idle or on battery." [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121833
[08:47] <DanaG> Aah, much better.  I also revised the wording of the description.
[08:55] <DanaG> oops, in changelog for latest compiz:
[08:55] <DanaG> "do run run glxinfo...."
[09:54] <DanaG> odd: apt-watch-auth-helper uses su instead of sudo.
[10:23] <akrus> LOL!
[10:23] <akrus> Microsoft is now reselling Ubuntu xD
[10:27] <coNP> oh no... again? :D
[10:28] <Toma-> welcome to 3 days ago
[10:28] <Toma-> ps, #ubuntu-offtopic
[11:33] <wigfreitz> hi all, I know this is a feisty question but I wasn't getting much sense out of #ubuntu. Im trying to compile flashplugin-nonfree from source (apt-get wont work) but Im getting a child process failed. could someone take a look http://rafb.net/p/sUEo4Q35. I checked the swap and other thinks compile okay so could it be the source?
[11:34] <RAOF> wigfreitz: paste 404s.  Also, flashplugin-nonfree from *source*?  I'm not entirely sure how that'd work, since flash is a proprietary binary blob :)
[11:36] <wigfreitz> ah
[11:36] <wigfreitz> well when I try to apt-get install I get E: Package flashplugin-nonfree has no installation candidate
[11:37] <wigfreitz> RAOF http://rafb.net/p/dD43dQ55.html :-)
[11:37] <wigfreitz> might explain this error then
[11:41] <gnomefreak> wigfreitz: are you on 64bit?
[11:42] <wigfreitz> gnomefreak indeed
[11:42] <wigfreitz> ah
[11:42] <gnomefreak> wigfreitz: use gnash
[11:42] <gnomefreak> if you are on gutsy
[11:42] <RAOF> Yeah, the reason why just apt-get install flashplayer-nonfree didn't work was that it *can't* :)
[11:42] <gnomefreak> dont use gnash on feisty unless you use Mozilla team repo
[11:43] <wigfreitz> what is the mozilla team repro?
[11:43] <gnomefreak> !moztest
[11:43] <ubotu> The Mozilla-testing repos can be found at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/PreviewArchives. Please remember these are testing repos, the packages in these repos are not stable and may break things on your system. Use with caution. Please report bugs found from these packages to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/PreviewArchives/Bugs.
[11:43] <wigfreitz> and how stable is it?
[11:43] <gnomefreak> thats for feisty
[11:43] <gnomefreak> wigfreitz: i havent had any issues with it since im the one building and uploading packages to it
[11:44] <gnomefreak> wigfreitz: are you on gutsy or feisty?
[11:44] <gnomefreak> gutsy has working gnash in repos already
[11:45] <gnomefreak> feisty has gutsy's gnash in mozilla repo
[11:46] <gnomefreak> wigfreitz: everything except firefox-trunk and firefox-granparadiso is stable
[11:46] <wigfreitz> granparadiso?
[11:47] <gnomefreak> questions or problems join #ubuntu-mozillateam
[11:47] <wigfreitz> kk
[11:47] <gnomefreak> wigfreitz: its firefox 3.0 and trunk is also 3.0
[11:47] <gnomefreak> trunk is updated more often
[11:50] <wigfreitz> gnomefreak: Is gnash better suited to streaming media and stuff?
[11:52] <wigfreitz> gnomefreak: that didn't work, I'm still getting the no plugin error
[11:52] <wigfreitz> Ill try reeboot
[11:58] <wigfreitz> gnomefreak, what's the mozilla room you said for support?
[11:58] <gnomefreak> wigfreitz: #ubuntu-mozillateam
[11:59] <wigfreitz> join #ubuntu-mozillateam
[11:59] <wigfreitz> :-)
[02:57] <nanomad> any major breakages today (such as X11/gnome not working)? or can I dist-upgrade to gutsy
[02:57] <nanomad> (ps.. i dont'care 'bout bugs, this is my main test machine, just dont wanna waste time d/l XD)
[03:01] <RAOF> Works For Me (tm)
[03:03] <nanomad> RAOF, thx (tm)
[03:08] <shirish> hi all,  is anybody able to install the new firefox-granparadiso 3.0 alpha 5 build ?
[03:08] <shirish> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/2007-June/003557.html
[03:20] <nanomad> shirish, whats wrong with it (not installed yet, still d-u)
[03:21] <shirish> nanomad: I tried the normal way after doing sudo aptitude update, doing sudo aptitude upgrade , nothing
[03:21] <shirish> then sudo aptitude install firefox-grandparadiso, nothing
[03:21] <shirish> what am I doing wrong?
[03:21] <nanomad> shirish, using official mirrors or one near you?
[03:22] <shirish> mirrors near me, but they usually sync with the mains within 2 hrs, and 2 hrs. are already passed.
[03:22] <shirish> sync=synced
[03:23] <shirish> if you are able to install it, please lemme know the correct name for installation or procedure
[03:25] <nanomad> shirish, it is not in the repos yet
[03:26] <shirish> nanomad: thanx for that info, then its cool, maybe I try again in few hrs. exciting seeing 3.0a5 for the first time, I did see a sneak preview of 3.0a1 on windows quite some time back :)

[08:00] <DanaG> !info compiz-fusion-plugins-main
[08:01] <ubotu> Package compiz-fusion-plugins-main does not exist in gutsy
[08:01] <DanaG> :(
[08:05] <DanaG> !info compiz-fusion-plugins-extra
[08:05] <ubotu> Package compiz-fusion-plugins-extra does not exist in gutsy
[08:05] <DanaG> :(
[08:10] <wfarr> !info compiz-fusion-plugins-main
[08:10] <ubotu> compiz-fusion-plugins-main: Collection of plugins from OpenCompositing for Compiz. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.0.0+git20070622-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 272 kB, installed size 1008 kB
[08:11] <DanaG> Wow, looks like it just appeared.
[08:11] <wfarr> DanaG, it's been in the repos for a few hours ;)
[08:11] <wfarr> Compiz pkg depends on it now
[08:11] <DanaG> I tried !info and ubotu told me it didn't exist.
[08:11] <DanaG> Did I misspell it?
[08:11] <wfarr> ubotu might be out of date
[08:12] <wfarr> !info compiz-fusion-plugins-extra
[08:12] <ubotu> compiz-fusion-plugins-extra: Collection of extra plugins from OpenCompositing for Compiz. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.0.0+git20070622-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 164 kB, installed size 1604 kB
[08:12] <wfarr> !info compiz-core
[08:12] <ubotu> compiz-core: OpenGL window and compositing manager. In component main, is optional. Version 1:0.5.1+git20070621-0ubuntu3 (gutsy), package size 177 kB, installed size 1536 kB
[09:02] <DanaG> Argh, animations in compiz are broken.  (perhaps that's a topic more appropriate to -effects).
[10:33] <finalbeta> Will apparmor be available for the desktop version 2?
[10:33] <crimsun> "desktop version 2"?
[10:36] <finalbeta> crimsun, hmm, how did that get there?
[10:37] <finalbeta> Ehm, I think I did a paste by accident. No other way possible.
[10:37] <finalbeta> Oh, no, wait, I did type that.
[10:38] <finalbeta> too
[10:38] <pwnguin> i think the point is that you're the first person to type that
[10:39] <pwnguin> which is highly confusing given nobody typed "desktop version 1"
[10:39] <pwnguin> you mean tribe 2?
[10:39] <finalbeta> Nah, I should have typed, desktop version too, and not only the server version of Ubuntu.
[10:39] <pwnguin> im not sure i get the point of appArmor
[10:39] <finalbeta> Very confusing indeed. Sorry.
[10:40] <finalbeta> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppArmorGutsy
[10:41] <finalbeta> It will probably only be implemented in the server. A configuration for the desktop would take more work.
[10:41] <pwnguin> i dont think it would help
[10:42] <pwnguin> app armor tries to reduce the amount of resources a broken service / program can subvert
[10:43] <finalbeta> Would be nice to have that on client network apps like mail clients/web browsers/chat clients. But I hardly know how effective/easy it is to set up.
[10:44] <crimsun> it will be implemented on -server for 7.04
[10:45] <pwnguin> finalbeta: how would you even divide resources in a mail client effectively?
[10:46] <finalbeta> it only needs to access it's own configuration files, and not the whole user dir.
[10:47] <pwnguin> ok, a mail client sure, but a web browser could concievably be pointed at your home dir
[10:48] <crimsun> finalbeta: you could implement that using a VMware image.
[10:48] <crimsun> or some $VM if its non-Free nature is unappealing
[10:48] <finalbeta> that's another discussion. I could verry weel set it up to only allow it to write to the dir where it downloads files.
[10:48] <finalbeta> Damn, very well*
[10:50] <pwnguin> that seems like the sort of thing you'd want if you really dont trust it
[10:50] <finalbeta> It would just be a nice thing it a default app like firefox could be boxed in that it can only read the libraries it needs/write to its own config files and a single dir where you would download content. This would make an unsecure browser secure because not much can be done with it.
[10:51] <crimsun> that has already been doen
[10:51] <crimsun> done, rather
[10:51] <pwnguin> finalbeta: app armor does not secure things perfectly
[10:51] <crimsun> UW-Seattle prototyped such a configuration
[10:51] <crimsun> look on their CS research pages under Dan Gribble's work
[10:52] <finalbeta> Well, I'm not seeing myself set up all those policies, would be nice if a distro did it for me.
[10:53] <pwnguin> crimsun: steve gribble?
[10:53] <crimsun> pwnguin: sorry, yes, steve gribble
[10:53] <crimsun> been a while since I looked at those pages
[10:54] <pwnguin> oh, you mean internet browsing in a vm
[10:55] <crimsun> yes
[10:56] <finalbeta> yes, I've seen the images, once played with it. You can download all sorts of such projects on the VMware site.
[10:56] <finalbeta> Yet I don't have resources to waste like that.
[10:56] <finalbeta> Already have 3Vmware images running as we speak.
[11:07] <crimsun> well, the poor man's $VM might be just a chroot
[11:10] <finalbeta> Security by design, not by implementation...
[11:15] <crimsun> death is the only securely designed thing.
[11:15] <crimsun> $deity help us all if someone finds a way to circumvent it.
[11:17] <DanaG> What's the difference between $something and $(something)?
[11:18] <crimsun> the former is a variable; the latter is a command executed in a subshell.
[11:19] <DanaG> Aah.