[01:01] <stdin> hmm, k3b 1.0.2 just came out, any chance of feisty packages (in -backports maybe)?
[01:08] <Riddell> stdin: if someone packages it and tests it
[01:09] <stdin> hmm, maybe I should learn how to make a proper .deb :p
[01:27] <Riddell> start with the current, make a new .orig, copy across the debian directory, debuild to build
[01:30] <doc_> hi there
[01:30] <doc_> hi
[01:33] <Riddell> hi doc_
[03:34] <ScottK> Riddell: I gave pitti a ping on the pinentry MIR.  Didn't get much in the way of a response.  I guess wait and see now...
[04:49] <ScottK> nosrednaekim: The crowd in #kubuntu is generally less unruly.
[04:49] <nosrednaekim> ScottK: heh... whoops.. wrong channel
[04:49] <nosrednaekim> very ture
[04:49] <nosrednaekim> *true
[04:50] <ScottK> Also, the language police would tell it you were shocked by the number of people there, not the amount.
[04:50] <nosrednaekim> grammer NAZI's...
[04:51] <ScottK> Didn't mean to scare him off...
[11:02] <mhb> pygi: I'd go for a discussion here
[11:02] <mhb> Hobbsee: ^^
[11:02] <Hobbsee> okay
[11:02] <mhb> if you two don't mind, of course
[11:02] <pygi> just shoot
[11:02] <mhb> okay
[11:03] <mhb> the thing I argue about is the concept
[11:03] <pygi> of changing the regular dialog that k3b shows anyway? :P
[11:03] <mhb> we don't have any pop-up about installing codecs in Kaffeine, because there is no upstream code that enables us to do it
[11:04] <mhb> this one is also about installing codecs
[11:04] <pygi> mhb, you could easily write a patch
[11:05] <mhb> pygi: why thank you :o) unfortunately, I can not, because I don't have neither time nor experience with kaffeine code to patch it
[11:05] <mhb> pygi: that's a side note
[11:06] <pygi> mhb, I was referring to anyone, not you specifically :P
[11:06] <mhb> pygi: what I'd welcome is popping that dialog up only when a user requests encoding/decoding a proprietary encoded media
[11:07] <pygi> well, I thought that's what we're having here? :PP
[11:07] <mhb> pygi: AFAIK, k3b pops-up the dialog on startup
[11:07] <mhb> pygi: at least it did for me
[11:07] <pygi> Hobbsee, ? is that true?
[11:08] <pygi> mhb, but still,the dialog clearly explains what you get and what your options are
[11:08] <mhb> I might be wrong, though
[11:08] <Hobbsee> not in my extremely limited k3b experience.
[11:12] <mhb> pygi: oh yes, it's on startup
[11:12] <pygi> o well
[11:12] <mhb> pygi: I agree the current dialog is not very helpful
[11:13] <mhb> what I disagree with is that k3b is useless without the codec
[11:13] <pygi> mhb, it's not useless
[11:13] <pygi> the dialog will be precise and show correct info, don't worry
[11:14] <mhb> a pop-up on startup is a way to inform a user about a thing he necessarily needs to know before he starts using the app
[11:14] <mhb> and this is not the case, IMHO
[11:15] <pygi> this is the upstream problem, not ours really. We'll just inform the user of choices.
[11:15] <mhb> well, the distribution of proprietary codecs is more or less our problem
[11:16] <pygi> ineded
[11:16] <pygi> well, we won't distribute those
[11:16] <mhb> I think the policy in Ubuntu is "offer installing them when the user needs them"
[11:16] <pygi> yes, I know
[11:16] <mhb> and that's what we should stick to
[11:16] <pygi> but I have no idea how much patching would that require
[11:16] <pygi> upstream should be notified that it should move the dialog to a more appropriate place
[11:16] <pygi> mail Trueg and tell him about the reasoning?
[11:17] <mhb> I probably will do that. He also might disagree with our policy and might want to keep his - "once a part of k3b is missing, report it to the user"
[11:18] <pygi> true, but ...
[11:18] <pygi> it's really more sane to display the dialog when user requires the functionality
[11:18] <pygi> mhb, please keep me informed
[11:18] <mhb> pygi: don't worry, I will
[11:19] <Arby> pygi: since we're on the subject, is that also true of the 'cdrecord will be run without root privileges' message at startup (i.e. it's an upstream thing)
[11:19] <pygi> Arby, hm? wodim is ran without root privileges AFAIK
[11:20] <pygi> Arby, what do you mean?
[11:20] <Arby> pygi: yes, but the message at startup imlies something needs to be done but doesn't say what
[11:20] <Arby> http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7506kdialogwx8.png
[11:20] <Arby> that message
[11:20] <pygi> image doesn't exist? :P
[11:20] <mhb> heh
[11:20] <Arby> oops
[11:20] <Arby> http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7506/kdialogwx8.png
[11:21] <Arby> missing /
[11:21] <Arby> should work now
[11:21] <pygi> yup, it works
[11:21] <Arby> big red warning at first start up
[11:21] <pygi> ah, k3b will always report that since joerg requires cdrecord to be run as root
[11:22] <Arby> implies I need to configure something but doesn't tell me anything about how
[11:22] <mhb> the description should be changed
[11:22] <Arby> yes
[11:22] <pygi> Arby, file a bug
[11:22] <mhb> remove the SUSE references and add Ubuntu help
[11:22] <Arby> as long I know it is a bug then I will
[11:23] <pygi> Arby, but IMHO we shouldn't put suid or run wodim as root
[11:23] <pygi> that's part of why wodim is there anyway :P
[11:23] <Arby> pygi: I have no idea about the technical end
[11:23] <pygi> I do :)
[11:23] <Arby> I'm just saying it's a bad message :)
[11:23] <pygi> true, but we can't get a better one
[11:23] <pygi> or put "Solution: Just ignore it :P"
[11:24] <Arby> fine for me, not so great for first time user :)
[11:24] <Arby> but I agree it's hard to do much about it
[11:25] <Arby> oh well, I'll file a bug
[11:25] <mhb> pygi: we can get a better message
[11:25] <pygi> Arby, and what should I do with it?
[11:26] <Arby> pygi: I don't know, that's why I'm asking you, you were the one who said file a bug
[11:27] <mhb> Arby: file a bug, post a link here. Suggest a better message in that bugreport.
[11:27] <pygi> Arby, yea, but we can't do anything about it, and I've got no idea on what it should state
[11:27] <pygi> mhb, but what would that "better message" be?
[11:29] <mhb> pygi: "it is highly recommended to run k3b with admin privileges. <some more info about why> To solve this, add your user to the appropriate group in the User Management tool in System Settings.
[11:30] <mhb> or if the solution is different, post a different solution. I don't get that message here, so I presumed a group is all it takes.
[11:30] <pygi> mhb, but it's not recommended :P
[11:30] <Arby> I'm beginning to wish I'd never asked :)
[11:31] <mhb> pygi: it is "highly" recommended, that's what the first message said
[11:31] <mhb> Arby: is that a bad solution? Or my bad English?
[11:31] <pygi> mhb, well, the message is wrong :P
[11:31] <pygi> (at least for ubuntu)
[11:31] <Arby> mhb: nothing wrong with your english
[11:31] <pygi> where cdrkit people claim that wodim doesn't need to be ran with root privileges
[11:31] <Arby> just two people giving me different answers
[11:32] <Arby> and now I don't know what the 'right' thing to do is
[11:33] <mhb> Arby: both saying "file a bug", right? :o)
[11:33] <pygi> mhb, I say no bug :P
[11:33] <Arby> I rest my case :)
[11:33] <pygi> haha :)
[11:34] <Arby> I'm not the expert here, you two decide and tell me what you want :P
[11:40] <mhb> Arby: okay, you and me think you should file a bug
[11:40] <Arby> agreed
[11:40] <Arby> but it's going to land on pygi's to do list and he says no
[11:40] <mhb> Arby: do that, it could get rejected but the information won't get lost
[11:41] <Arby> mhb: fair enough, will do
[11:41] <mhb> Arby: more people are able to write patches of this "minitude" :o)
[11:42] <pygi> mhb, it's not about writing the patch, that isn't the problem
[11:42] <pygi> we're talking more technical discussion here :P
[11:42] <mhb> pygi: of course
[11:44] <Arby> pygi: if I file the bug is it going to come to you anyway?
[11:44] <pygi> Arby, sure
[11:44] <Arby> in which case lets miss out launchpad and you make the call.
[11:45] <Arby> pygi: what do you think is best?
[11:45] <pygi> what about this ... I go to lunch, and when I'm back we discuss? :P
[11:45] <Arby> no bug ?
[11:45] <Arby> fine with me :)
[11:45] <pygi> great, thanks :P
[11:46] <pygi> you learn about the reasons of cdrkit/wodim existance, and differences with wodim vs. cdrecord :)
[11:46] <mhb> pygi: could be we're the only ones who will be interested in it
[11:46] <pygi> mhb, doesn't matter, two is two ... so it matters :)
[11:46] <Arby>  ahem, 3
[11:46] <Arby> :)
[11:46] <pygi> ok, ok, 3 :P
[11:46] <pygi> but who's the third?
[11:46] <mhb> pygi: it might matter in the future
[11:46] <Arby> you, mhb and me ?
[11:47] <pygi> you can't count me :P
[11:47] <Arby> oh OK it is 2 then :)
[11:47] <mhb> pygi: say somebody posts the same one, or a similar one
[11:47] <pygi> mhb, lunch first pls? :) I'm late already :P
[11:47] <Arby> anyway, food now, discussion later
[11:47] <Arby> :)
[11:48] <mhb> okay, enjoy it!
[11:48] <pygi> thanks, yay :)
[11:48] <pygi> perhaps I'll think better when I eat :P
[12:32] <Hobbsee> no wonder i'm going insane...
[12:37] <pygi> Hobbsee, :P
[12:37] <pygi> mhb, Arby : back
[12:38] <Arby> hi pygi, hope lunch was good :)
[12:38] <pygi> kindof, always the same stuff :p
[12:38] <Arby> been thinking while you were away
[12:38] <pygi> and what? :)
[12:38] <Arby> are you saying that wodim/cdrecord never needs to be run as root now?
[12:39] <Arby> in which case the message would be pointless
[12:40] <pygi> wodim doesn't need to be run as root
[12:40] <pygi> that's correct
[12:40] <Arby> OK, so in fact the message doesn't need to be there at all?
[12:40] <pygi> (I have no idea whetever wodim folks actually fixed that, or just forcefully removed the need for root)
[12:40] <pygi> Arby, for ubuntu, that's the case, yes
[12:41] <Arby> but not for upstream?
[12:41] <Arby> i.e. does wodim in debian need root?
[12:41] <pygi> no, wodim doesn't need root anywhere
[12:42] <Arby> right, so how hard would it be to patch k3b to suppress that message
[12:42] <Arby> and are there any good reasons not to do that?
[12:42] <pygi> no idea, shouldn't be too hard
[12:42] <pygi> mhb, wake up ^_^
[12:42] <pygi> Hobbsee, also ^_^
[12:43] <Arby> because the current message implies there is some critical action required
[12:43] <Arby> when in fact it seems to be totally redundant
[12:44] <Arby> looks like just something that no-one got around to cleaning up yet
[12:44] <pygi> well, usually folks don't clean up stuff like that
[12:45] <pygi> in reality nobody bothers about details
[12:46] <Arby> hmm, honestly I find that sort of message disturbing as a user
[12:46] <pygi> I understand
[12:46] <Arby> it implies that there is something wrong that I don't understand
[12:46] <Arby> which means I (wrongly) blame every subsequent problem on that thing
[12:46] <pygi> haha
[12:47] <Arby> which means I don't report geuine issues because I assume it's something I've done wrong
[12:47] <Arby> *genuine
[12:47] <pygi> I understand
[12:48] <mhb> pygi: back
[12:48] <pygi> mhb, wb
[12:48] <Arby> so the question remains, what, if anything, is the best thing to do?
[12:48] <pygi> I could remove the message, shouldn't be too big of a problem
[12:49] <Arby> IMHO that would be best
[12:49] <pygi> Arby, did you mail trueg?
[12:49] <pygi> or was it mhb who said he'll do that :P
[12:49] <Arby> wasn't me
[12:49] <mhb> pygi: me
[12:50] <mhb> pygi: no, net yet
[12:50] <mhb> not
[12:50] <Arby> pygi: do you want me to file a bug or shall I leave it with you?
[12:51] <pygi> Arby, file a bug pls, I can't track everything in my head, sorry
[12:51] <pygi> Arby, assign it to me
[12:51] <pygi> and post a link here, I'll make Hobbsee milestone the bug
[12:51] <Arby> pygi: OK will do, biab
[12:52] <pygi> Hobbsee, if we do a lot of k3b changes, we'd probably want to stop blacklist sync from debian
[12:55] <Hobbsee> pygi: if you make changes, it automatically doesnt get synced.
[12:56] <pygi> Hobbsee, right, it goes to that merge thingy :)
[12:56] <Hobbsee> yeah
[12:56] <pygi> Hobbsee, don't worry about it, you just sit back and relax
[12:56] <Hobbsee> heh
[12:56] <Hobbsee> i should study
[12:56] <pygi> same, but heh
[01:02] <pygi> Hobbsee, 4 exams yay :(
[01:02] <Hobbsee> :(
[01:03] <Arby> pygi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/k3b/+bug/121964
[01:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121964 in k3b "Gutsy: k3b has misleading system config dialog" [Undecided,New] 
[01:03] <Arby> ^^that OK for you
[01:03] <Hobbsee> pygi: why milestone all these bugs, if you're just goign to go and work in a group on them?
[01:03] <Hobbsee> it's just a way of work control
[01:04] <pygi> Hobbsee, then don't milestone, doesn't matter :P
[01:04] <Hobbsee> heh
[01:04] <pygi> ;)
[01:04] <pygi> bug 121964
[01:04] <pygi> assigned to me
[01:05] <pygi> :)
[01:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121964 in k3b "Gutsy: k3b has misleading system config dialog" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121964
[01:05] <Arby> well I hope I've assigned it to the right person
[01:05] <Arby> or someone is going to be confused
[01:06] <pygi> I have assigned it :p
[01:06] <pygi> you didn't assign it at all :P
[01:06] <Arby> I went back and did it, must have crossed in the ether, nevermind :)
[01:07] <pygi> oh well :P
[01:07] <Arby> pygi: thanks very much :)
[01:07] <pygi> Arby, mhb : thank you :)
[01:08] <pygi> for gutsy you shall have it fixed
[01:08] <Arby> right need to go squash more bugs to compensate for the new one :)
[01:08] <Arby> \o/ hooray
[01:08] <pygi> hehe :)
[01:08] <pygi> Arby, do squash k3b bugs pls
[01:08] <pygi> (test, and stuff :P)
[01:08] <Arby> I'll try, I find it quite hard to understand
[01:09] <Arby> happy to test if you point me in the right direction
[01:09] <pygi> k, sure :P
[01:09] <pygi> you have gutsy or what? :P
[01:10] <Arby> yes
[01:10] <pygi> almost all this bugs need a test of reproducability on gutsy:
[01:10] <pygi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/k3b/
[01:10] <pygi> :P
[01:11] <Arby> OK, here goes then :)
[01:12] <pygi> Arby, you do have rw mediums, right? :P
[01:12] <Arby> of course
[01:13] <Arby> a spindle full
[01:13] <pygi> great
[01:13] <pygi> mix of dvd+rw, dvd-rw and cd-rw
[01:13] <Arby> testbox which has gutsy on doesn't have DVD writer unfortunately
[01:14] <pygi> doesn't matter
[01:16] <pygi> Arby, some bugs don't even need burning, just rather seeying if k3b can find stuff
[01:16] <pygi> like in bug #45026
[01:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 45026 in k3b "K3b dont find emovix-2 and normalize" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/45026
[01:17] <Arby> pygi: OK I'll get started then
[01:19] <pygi> Arby, great
[02:10] <Arby> pygi: how do I find out what the supported burn speed(s) of a CD writer are?
[02:41] <Arby> pygi: also I think I found a new one in the process, bug 121980, sorry :)
[02:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121980 in k3b "Gutsy: k3b hangs at 'Verifying written data'" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121980
[02:44] <pygi> Arby, a lot of the same bug reported
[02:45] <Arby> really, the others I looked at looked different
[02:45] <Arby> in the sense that mine doesn't throw any error message
[02:45] <Arby> the others do
[02:45] <pygi> right, but still the same problem :P
[02:46] <Arby> if you say so, best find something to dupe it against then :)
[02:46] <pygi> nah, don't worry
[02:46] <pygi> just test stuff =)
[02:47] <mhb> pygi: by the way, don't you want to write sebastian (of k3b) about the dialog?
[02:47] <mhb> pygi: you seem to be active with k3b
[02:48] <pygi> mhb, I'm active with anything cd-recording wise =)
[02:49] <Arby> pygi: following our earlier discussion bug 37423 can also be marked fixed?
[02:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 37423 in k3b "says i do not have permission to use cdrecord" [Medium,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/37423
[02:49] <Hobbsee> the bug comments are getting painful
[02:49] <pygi> Hobbsee, I saw hehe :)
[02:50] <Arby> pygi: since k3b does actually work when not root in gutsy
[02:50] <pygi> Arby, yea, let's leave it open for a couple more days
[02:50] <Arby> OK
[02:50] <Arby> I'll leave a comment anyway
[02:50] <pygi> Arby, kk, thanks
[02:50] <pygi> Hobbsee, people are just ... well ...
[02:51] <pygi> you know what I mean :)
[02:51] <mhb> pygi: twice as great
[02:51] <pygi> mhb, you're free to mail tho :P
[02:51] <pygi> it'll take some time before he responds anyway :P
[02:52] <Hobbsee> pygi: people are people.  i work in retail
[02:53] <pygi> Hobbsee, that can be arranged
[02:53] <Arby> thus fixing bug#1 in one go, since there'd only be linux devs left :D
[02:53] <pygi> but it will not be install auto-magically
[02:53] <Hobbsee> pygi: *grin*
[02:53] <pygi> s/install/installed
[02:53] <Hobbsee> Arby: *more grin*
[02:54] <Arby> right need to pop out for a bit
[02:54] <Arby> more k3b later
[02:54] <pygi> k, great =)
[03:16] <pygi> Hobbsee, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2903841&posted=1#post2903841
[03:17] <Hobbsee> pygi: cool
[03:19] <pygi> Hobbsee, it's not cool :P It means there are severe problems in earlier releases
[03:19] <pygi> (not that we didn't knew that tho :P)
[03:19] <Hobbsee> well.....true
[03:21] <pygi> Hobbsee, I see more bashing on you :-/
[03:22] <Hobbsee> pygi: woo!
[03:22] <Hobbsee> pygi: undupe them all, if that seems more sane, and let them sit
[03:22] <pygi> Hobbsee, I won't do anything
[03:22] <pygi> and you should just sit and ignore the bashes as well
[03:23] <pygi> I can just comment, and will do so
[03:27] <Hobbsee> pygi: seems like male egos out in full force
[03:27] <pygi> Hobbsee, ;)
[03:27] <Hobbsee> OMG but i reported the bug!!!!
[03:28] <pygi> Hobbsee, which one? :P
[03:28] <Hobbsee> the ones who are whinging
[03:28] <pygi> I know you reported it :P
[03:28] <pygi> you didn't knew that? :P
[03:29] <Hobbsee> no - the guys are saying that.  that was supposed to be quoted, sorry
[03:30] <pygi> ah
[03:30] <pygi> k :)
[03:31] <pygi> Hobbsee, I won't use that patch btw
[03:31] <pygi> we need another wording, and a different style
[03:32] <Hobbsee> pygi: yeah, didnt think so
[03:32] <pygi> and ofcourse the mention of k-r-e
[03:34] <mhb> what bashing?
[03:34] <pygi> btw Hobbsee++ for being calm ^_^
[03:34] <mhb> pygi: ^^
[03:35] <pygi> mhb, nothing important, me and Hobbsee decided it's better to file a new bug and make all other duplicates, and people are bashing :P
[03:36] <marseillai_> Hobbsee: would you have time to revu some packages?
[03:36] <pygi> marseillai_, fire away. What ya need checked?
[03:38] <pygi> Hobbsee, btw. what exactly does k-r-e consists of?
[03:39] <pygi> aha!
[04:16] <Riddell> ScottK: he'll be busy with release stuff this week, it'll be next week at the earliest I guess
[04:16] <Hobbsee> hiya Riddell!
[04:17] <Hobbsee> Riddell: we have a bug.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/121456
[04:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121456 in adept "Adept couldn't open APT database" [Critical,Confirmed] 
[04:17] <Riddell> morning
[04:17] <Riddell> a but in kubuntu?  I don't believe it
[04:18] <Hobbsee> Riddell: heeh
[04:18] <Hobbsee> *hehe
[04:18] <Hobbsee> Riddell: a critical one, in fact, imo
[04:18] <Riddell> yes, I agree
[04:18] <Riddell> it needs mvo to look at it really
[04:18] <Hobbsee> right
[04:19] <mhb> poor mvo
[04:20] <pygi> Riddell, we closed 15 bugs in kubuntu in two days ... so I'd say yes, a bug in kubuntu :P
[04:22] <mhb> I bother him enough with gdebi-kde and now this :o)
[04:22] <pygi> mhb, that's a soc project
[04:23] <mhb> pygi: yes
[04:23] <mhb> pygi: not his, though
[04:23] <pygi> you're that soc student or what? xd
[04:23] <pygi> xD
[04:23] <pygi> LOL, I know :P
[04:24] <mhb> pygi: how do you know about that soc project?
[04:24] <pygi> mhb, because I looked over all soc projects? xD
[04:24] <mhb> pygi: cool, just wondered
[04:25] <pygi> :)
[04:34] <ScottK> Riddell: I still have to talk to seb128 about pgp config stuff, so there's no great rush on pinentry just yet.  I'll see if I can get that done if he has a slack moment during the week.
[04:55] <pygi> Hobbsee, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2904273#post2904273
[05:04] <Arby> pygi: quick look at bug 49783, any more info I can add for you?
[05:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 49783 in k3b "cannot burn mixed cd" [Medium,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/49783
[05:05] <pygi> Arby, that should be enough, thank you
[05:05] <Arby> OK I'll change status then
[05:06] <pygi> yup, confirmed
[05:06] <Arby> pygi: do you want it assigned to you
[05:06] <ScottK> Arby: Don't change it to Triaged
[05:06] <pygi> Arby, nop, no assigning.
[05:06] <pygi> just change to confirmed
[05:06] <Arby> OK
[05:07] <pygi> After we get series of those bugs, I'll contact trueg
[05:07] <pygi> he gotta fix those bug upstream
[05:08] <Arby> OK I see, onwards then :)
[05:09] <mhb> pygi: ask him about that notification thing as well, please
[05:10] <pygi> mhb, ah, ok
[05:10] <mhb> pygi: if it's possible to make it show in a more appropriate place
[05:10] <mhb> pygi: i.e. when a prop. codec is about to be used
[05:11] <pygi> I will, I will
[06:03] <pygi> Arby, thanks for closing bug
[06:03] <pygi> :)
[06:04] <Arby> always a pleasure :)
[06:05] <Arby> pygi: I beleive bug 93754 could also be closed?
[06:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 93754 in k3b "k3b reports problems with cdrecord" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93754
[06:05] <Arby> *believe
[06:06] <pygi> Arby, yup, close
[06:06] <pygi> there are number of same bugs as well reported
[06:06] <Arby> and when you've looked there bug 88934 also looks good
[06:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 88934 in k3b "k3b Crashes on "Extract and Encode Audio Tracks"" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88934
[06:07] <Arby> just waiting for test to complete but looks fixed so far
[06:07] <pygi> I'll close the first one
[06:08] <pygi> report on bug 88934 when you're done
[06:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 88934 in k3b "k3b Crashes on "Extract and Encode Audio Tracks"" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88934
[06:08] <Arby> if the test is successful am I good to close it?
[06:08] <pygi> yup
[06:15] <Arby> pygi: could you look at bug 103075 also, seems to be some sort of /dev problem but it's beyond my understanding?
[06:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 103075 in k3b "Can't burn a cd" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103075
[06:16] <pygi> Arby, I choose to ignore that bug :p
[06:16] <Arby> fair enough
[06:16] <Arby> :)
[06:16] <pygi> no idea what's he talking about, and the bug is too big for me to read :P
[06:17] <pygi> Arby, what happened with 88934 ?
[06:18] <Arby> I wish I'd ripped a shorter CD :P
[06:18] <pygi> haha
[06:18] <Arby> just this second successfully completed, closing :)
[06:18] <pygi> yay, great
[06:19] <pygi> Arby, state that it's fixed, and resolve as fix released
[06:20] <Arby> done
[06:20] <pygi> thnka
[06:20] <pygi> thanks
[06:20] <pygi> that's like 20 bugs down in two days for k3b
[06:20] <pygi> yay
[06:20] <Arby> today has been a good day :)
[06:21] <Arby> I feel like I did some good today
[06:21] <pygi> hehe :)
[06:21] <Arby> pygi: thanks for all your help
[06:21] <pygi> Arby, no, thanks for your help =)
[06:21] <Arby> not finished yet though
[06:21] <pygi> Arby, would you like to learn how to package software? I'm willing to help ^_^
[06:22] <Arby> at some point yes, but not today :)
[06:22] <pygi> ofcourse not :p
[06:22] <Arby> I'm beginning to feel a little dazed :)
[06:23] <pygi> :P
[07:47] <Riddell> anyone want to update k3b for new release?
[07:48] <pygi> Riddell, I do
[07:48] <pygi> Riddell, nobody should touch k3b except me :p
[07:48] <Riddell> pygi: you're the man then :)
[07:48] <Riddell> Nightrose: story published
[07:48] <Nightrose> thx Riddell
[07:49] <pygi> Riddell, when do we need that?
[07:50] <pygi> Riddell, i.e. how urgent? :)
[07:50] <Riddell> pygi: no urgency from my side
[07:50] <pygi> Riddell, doki, just leave the task to me then :)
[07:50] <Riddell> although it would be another nice thing for tribe 2, so I guess tomorrow would be cool
[07:51] <Riddell> but not vital
[07:51] <pygi> right, you'll get it then
[07:51] <pygi> Riddell, you'll get it tomorrow
[07:52] <Riddell> ryanakca: what for?
[07:53] <ryanakca> aoeui
[07:56] <pygi> Riddell, you're making me work ... evil you :p
[07:57] <Arby> pygi: you going to want that testing $later?
[07:58] <pygi> Arby, explain?
[07:58] <pygi> ah, sure
[07:58] <pygi> the dollar sign made me confused =)
[07:59] <Arby> $ == for some unspecified value of later than now :)
[07:59] <pygi> hehe
[07:59] <Arby> well, poke me if you do
[08:00] <pygi> help is always welcome ;)
[08:00] <pygi> sure
[08:01] <pygi> Riddell, I need to write a couple of patches as well at the same time then
[08:01] <pygi> so it's a good time
[08:11] <nixternal> http://scourgeweb.org/show_image.php?id=51
[08:11] <nixternal> 3 kubuntu users, me and the twins of course, 1 ubuntu user, and 1 xubuntu user, pimping *buntu at Barcamp Chicago style
[08:15] <Riddell> Barcamp?
[08:15] <nosrednaekim> whats this? where are you guys?
[08:15] <nixternal> Chicago
[08:15] <nixternal> Barcamp is an opensource event that happens in cities all over the US (I thought the world, maybe I am wrong)
[08:16] <nixternal> everyone comes together for talks, camping out, partying, hacking, and then some
[08:17] <nosrednaekim> ah.. ok
[08:19] <Riddell> nixternal: blog blog!
[08:19] <nixternal> working on it now :)
[08:19] <nosrednaekim> so... made any kubuntu converts?
[08:20] <nixternal> actually, there are already quite a few Kubuntu users that I found
[08:20] <nixternal> most were using Slackware and Debian up until Feisty, and have since switched to Kubuntu
[08:21] <nosrednaekim> why hide? are you saying that kubutnu isn't sane?
[08:22] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: cool
[09:29] <sebbar> hi, I think maxima-share should be a dependency of maxima... should I file a bug about this or something?
[09:32] <crimsun> NOTABUG.
[09:32] <crimsun> crimsun@Box.pts/2.~ apt-cache show maxima|grep ^Rec
[09:32] <crimsun> Recommends: maxima-share, gv
[09:32] <crimsun> crimsun@Box.pts/2.~ apt-cache show maxima-share|grep ^Dep
[09:32] <crimsun> Depends: maxima (>= 5.12.0-1ubuntu1)
[09:32] <crimsun> debian/control clearly is written correctly in those respects.
[09:33] <crimsun> you must avoid introducing dependency loops.
[09:33] <crimsun> if you make maxima-share a Depends of maxima, you introduce a loop.
[09:39] <sebbar> crimsun: sorry I'm a bit of a noob user but you're saying that there's no way to avoid that a user installs maxima, chooses a function from the menu (which is included only in maxima-share) and gets an error message which gives him no clue that he has to install maxima-share in order to install that function?
[09:40] <crimsun> sebbar: aptitude and apt-get both honor Recommends by default
[09:40] <crimsun> it is Very Bad Packaging to introduce a Depends loop, as it does very bad things on {,dist-}upgrade
[09:41] <sebbar> crimsun: but adept doesn't?
[09:41] <crimsun> sebbar: if it doesn't, please file a bug against the adept source package.
[09:41] <crimsun> it is _not_ a bug in the maxima source package.
[09:42] <sebbar> crimsun: I see thanks
[09:44] <Arby> sebbar: you are correct however, I just checked, adept doesn't honour recommends
[09:45] <pygi> Arby is awake :-D
[09:46] <Arby> pygi: well it's only 8:45 :P
[09:46] <pygi> Arby, PM, or AM? :P
[09:46] <Arby> pygi: PM
[09:46] <pygi> right, one hour ahead of you then
[09:46] <pygi> Riddell, around?
[09:47] <pygi> If I get an update now (i.e. in an hour) could you upload?
[09:47] <Arby> sebbar: give us a link when you've filed the bug and I can confirm it
[09:47] <pygi> Arby, I'll work on updating k3b soon
[09:47] <Arby> pygi: OK, I'm not going anywhere :)
[09:57] <sebbar> Arby: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adept/+bug/122029 no clue if it's a decent bug report, it's my first one hehe
[09:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 122029 in adept "adept doesn't honour recommends" [Undecided,New] 
[09:57] <Arby> sebbar: looking, we all start somewhere :)
[09:59] <Arby> sebbar: OK it needs a lot more detail, let me comment and then you'll see.
[09:59] <sebbar> ok cool :)
[10:07] <Arby> sebbar: how important is maxima-share to the functionality of maxima?
[10:10] <sebbar> Arby: I only know that the function to simplify trigonometric expressions (which is quite basic I'd say) is in maxima-share
[10:10] <crimsun> maxima is fairly useless without maxima-share
[10:10] <Arby> OK so maxima would be fairly inhibited without it
[10:11] <Arby> right so adept really needs to honour recommends
[10:11] <Arby> sebbar: have a look at bug 122029 now
[10:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 122029 in adept "adept doesn't honour recommends" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122029
[10:12] <Arby> actually I should probably have set that to 'Confirmed'
[10:14] <sebbar> great! one more thing I learned today
[10:15] <Arby> sebbar: for future reference https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs might be useful
[10:15] <sebbar> Arby: I bookmarked that :)
[10:16] <Arby> manchicken_ , Riddell: is it known that adept doesn't honour recommends and is there a reason for this?
[10:16] <Arby> other than 'no-one implemented it yet' :)
[10:31] <pygi> ok, I'm seriously confused
[10:31] <pygi> why did StevenK uploaded new k3b package 7 hours ago o.O
[10:33] <pygi> ah, some transition stuff
[10:33] <crimsun> yes, libflac++6
[10:35] <pygi> Arby, you sure bug #45026 is still reproducable?
[10:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 45026 in k3b "K3b dont find emovix-2 and normalize" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/45026
[10:35] <pygi> there seems to be a patch for that
[10:36] <Arby> looking
[10:37] <pygi> Arby, cdrecord suid stuff also seems patched already?
[10:37] <Arby> pygi: which bit, normalize or emovix?
[10:37] <pygi> Arby, normalize
[10:38] <Arby> pygi: what's there is definitely what I saw.
[10:38] <Arby> normalize isn't found unless you specify the search path
[10:38] <pygi> Arby, the patch replaces normalize with normalize-audio
[10:38] <pygi> which is sane
[10:39] <pygi> and should fix the problem
[10:39] <pygi> there's also a patch for cdrecord & stuff
[10:40] <Arby> pygi: the comments following the patch say that you still need to make the symlink
[10:41] <Arby> I'm confused
[10:41] <pygi> Arby, no, no
[10:41] <pygi> the patch is already in a package
[10:41] <pygi> sane one (not the one on the bug)
[10:42] <Arby> hmm, give me 5 minutes to check this, it might be my bad
[10:44] <pygi> Arby, it shouldn't display that cdrecord thing as well anymore
[10:45] <Arby> which one, the emovix thing?
[10:48] <Arby> pygi: which cdrecord thing, the emovix dependency?
[10:49] <pygi> Arby, no, the splash arguing that cdrecord should be run as root
[10:50] <Arby> oh that, well it was doing it this morning until I checked the box to hide it
[10:50] <Arby> haven't checked since, one thing at a time
[10:54] <pygi> k, I'm looking ito solving normalize stuff
[11:00] <Riddell> Arby: yes, it probably just needs an updated dpkgthing.cc files
[11:00] <Riddell> pygi: pong
[11:01] <Arby> Riddell: Ok thanks
[11:01] <pygi> Riddell, this k3b patches are full of weird stuff
[11:01] <pygi> they are mostly *not* working or something
[11:01] <Arby> pygi: I've added screenshots to bug 45026
[11:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 45026 in k3b "K3b dont find emovix-2 and normalize" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/45026
[11:01] <Arby> actually adding the search path within k3b doesn't work
[11:02] <Arby> let me test the symlink method
[11:02] <pygi> ah
[11:06] <Arby> pygi: hmm, symlinking isn't working either for me
[11:06] <pygi> Arby, I think I got an idea how to fix it
[11:06] <Arby> is there something odd here or is it me
[11:07] <pygi> there's something odd
[11:07] <pygi> but I think I got it
[11:07] <Arby> well that's a relief :)
[11:12] <mhb> Riddell: ping
[11:13] <pygi> Arby, emovix I wont look today tho
[11:13] <Riddell> hi mhb
[11:13] <mhb> hi Riddell
[11:13] <Arby> pygi: fair enough that seems more awkward
[11:13] <mhb> remember your code in su.cpp ?
[11:13] <pygi> Arby, I'm looking into creating a couple patches anyway
[11:14] <Riddell> mhb: mm hmm
[11:14] <mhb> it's quite complicated, at least it's hard for me to understand
[11:14] <Arby> pygi: I'll check the the splash message as well if I can find how to turn it back on
[11:14] <pygi> Arby, sure, thanks
[11:15] <mhb> I'd like to find out how you were able to find out when sudo reports an error message about a wrong password
[11:16] <Arby> pygi: cdrecord message does still display at k3b start up.
[11:17] <mhb> Riddell: I'm sure Tonio won't be happy about the stuff I say now, but kdesudo has a pretty bad backend, which works by counting that the descriptions won't change
[11:17] <mhb> counting on the fact that
[11:17] <pygi> Arby, I'll see what I can do
[11:17] <pygi> but meh, that means that patch is useless as well
[11:17] <pygi> and it shouldn't be
[11:17] <Riddell> mhb: description of what?
[11:17] <Arby> pygi: some funky patching going on?
[11:17] <pygi> Arby, yes
[11:18] <Arby> oh joy :)
[11:18] <mhb> Riddell: well, stuff like "Sorry, try again."
[11:18] <mhb> Riddell: the messages sudo states
[11:18] <Riddell> mhb: kdesu is indeed complex.  it also ultimately just parses the output of sudo (or su) and hopes it won't change too
[11:18] <Riddell> it's split between kdebase and kdelibs
[11:19] <mhb> Riddell: me and RadiantFire are creating a new backend for kdesu, called SudoProcess, which is something like a SuProcess, but with all the stub stuff out
[11:19] <mhb> Riddell: and optimized for sudo
[11:19] <Riddell> mhb: to solve which problem?
[11:20] <mhb> Riddell: to solve the problem of having two tools for one task
[11:20] <mhb> Riddell: two frontends, etc.
[11:20] <Riddell> pygi: I've not touched k3b in a while, you may be better asking one of the more recent maintainers (or at least someone who isn't suffering from toothache and a swolen face)
[11:21] <pygi> Riddell, that would be tonio and sealne, both not here. It's all too messy as is right now
[11:21] <pygi> Riddell, I can update to 1.0.2, and create new package for later if you agree?
[11:21] <pygi> One which'll be easier to maintain
[11:22] <pygi> so you get what you wanted, and I get a way to provide you with a better k3b in the future
[11:23] <Riddell> mhb: which two frontends?
[11:23] <mhb> Riddell: kdesu, kdesudo
[11:23] <Riddell> pygi: later is fine
[11:24] <Riddell> mhb: the only problem with kdesu is that it starts sudo to check if it really needs a password, then it starts it again to enter the password
[11:24] <Riddell> ..
[11:24] <gnomefreak> doesnt kdesudo link to kdesu as gtksu and gtksudo does?
[11:24] <pygi> Riddell, no, no .. you didn't understand. You'll get the 1.0.2 package as-is right now, and later I'll create a k3b package from scratch
[11:25] <pygi> which will be easier to maintain
[11:25] <mhb> Riddell: hmm
[11:25] <Riddell> mhb: since sudo remembers passwords for a given pty it never remembers the password for the first pty so on the first start it always things it needs a password
[11:25] <pygi> problem is it will diverge from debian a lot, but ...
[11:25] <Riddell> mhb: best fix is just to fix it so it only starts sudo once (although it's non trivial as I remember, else I'd have done it ages ago)
[11:26] <mhb> Riddell: hmm
[11:26] <Riddell> pygi: oh, ok
[11:26] <pygi> Riddell, you tell me what do to, and if it's ok with you
[11:26] <mhb> Riddell: yeah, probably
[11:26] <mhb> Riddell: we can probably solve this
[11:26] <gnomefreak> gksudo and gksu sorry :(
[11:26] <pygi> Riddell, I should probably mail sealne and tonio before doing so or something?
[11:26] <Riddell> pygi: yeah, good idea
[11:27] <pygi> k, then update will wait after all
[11:28] <pygi> Riddell, you know sealne's LP id perhaps?
[11:28] <pygi> (sorry for bothering too much, just wanna do the required work)
[11:29] <Riddell> pygi: dunno, he's kenny duffus in real life
[11:29] <Riddell> kenny@kde.org
[11:30] <pygi> Riddell, right, thanks
[11:42] <pygi> Riddell, mail sent
[11:43] <pygi> Arby, a bit harder then we thought, he? :)
[11:44] <Arby> pygi: if it was easy it would be done already :)
[11:45] <Arby> today has been ... educational
[11:45] <Arby> but worthwhile
[11:46] <pygi> oh well, as long as we fix the stuff somewhere in the future
[11:46] <pygi> I want not only solution for now, but for the future as well
[11:46] <Arby> k3b is still healthier than it was 48 hours ago :)
[11:46] <pygi> ofcourse
[11:47] <Arby> at least we know what needs doing now :)
[11:47] <pygi> cca. 20 bugs closed is impressive
[11:47] <Arby> you must have closed a lot yesterday
[11:47] <Arby> I only actually closed 3 today
[11:58] <pygi> Arby, yup, closed a lot :)
[11:58] <Arby> pygi: great work :) bugs--
[11:59] <Arby> right, I'm off for the night
[12:00] <Arby> next installment of Arby's adventures in kubuntu tomorrow