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gnomefreakwhat is sudo apt-get install gnash too hard?03:44
gnomefreakasac: we ported gnash for feisty as where people are saying dont use the binaries they dont say it that way :) btw i use it on feisty and no issues04:08
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Admiral_Chicagojoin #xubuntu-devel10:28
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-mozillateam:Admiral_Chicago] : Home of Ubuntu Mozilla Team - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam | Bug Triagers please read: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/ | Firefox trunk package source : https://code.launchpad.net/~asac/firefox/trunk | Mailing List: ubuntu-mozillateam@lists.ubuntu.com |
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asacok i am going sport now :) ...  will be back in 4 hours i guess ;)12:34
gnomefreakim sort of here kind of in a way01:27
JenFragglesort of, kind of.  right...01:40
gnomefreakits my birthday so im sort of here ;)01:51
JenFragglehappy birthday!!!01:53
JenFraggleare you in usa?  i get confused where people are from02:04
JenFragglei've been looking at the wiki i'm doing but have come to a bit of a standstill.  need to speak to asac about it02:06
gnomefreak@schedule UTC02:54
ubotuSchedule for Etc/UTC: 26 Jun 13:00: Community Council | 26 Jun 15:00: Kernel Team | 27 Jun 12:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jun 20:00: Xubuntu Developers | 28 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 03 Jul 19:00: Technical Board02:54
gnomefreakasac: and hjmf_ dont forget to show up to CC meeting on 26th :)02:55
gnomefreakasac: i added your gnash-0.8.0 to the preview arcive wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/PreviewArchives so people dont have to upgrade ff tb and others if they dont want to :)03:35
asacgnomefreak: thats tuesday right?03:38
asacyeah ... will attend03:38
gnomefreaki think your funkymonkey is borked03:38
asacmy funkymonkey=03:38
asacwhat happens?03:38
gnomefreakit doesnt give me download dialog (it did on iceape but failed to create crome dir03:39
asacgnomefreak: oh ... for iceape i have no idea if it works03:39
gnomefreakim gonna try to wget it03:39
asacanyway ... i have to go out for another 30 min or so ... get some sun and a latte macchiato on the street ;)03:40
gnomefreakok have fun :)03:40
asacwill be here afterwards for full evening03:40
asacdoing some other stuff, but being in responsive mode :)03:40
asacok cu later03:40
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asachere i am :)04:48
asacJenFraggle: still there?04:48
asacBug 120781 becomes more and more mysterious04:48
ubotuLaunchpad bug 120781 in firefox "Firefox hangs on websites when using gecko-mediaplayer plug in/gnome-mediaplayer/mplayer" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12078104:48
asacJenFraggle: ola04:48
asacJenFraggle: were are you from?04:48
asac :)04:49
asacinteresting ... because you have a googlemail.com address instead of a gmail.com one04:49
asaci thought only germans get those addresses because of trademark infringment04:49
JenFragglethat is what google gave me :(04:49
asacmaybe they thought you were german ;)04:49
asacnot that i matters :)04:50
JenFragglejust takes longer to type04:50
asacJenFraggle: i thin @gmail.com will work too04:50
asacJenFraggle: so where did you get stuck in wiki?04:51
JenFragglei'm trying that04:51
JenFragglethe 2 bits you said to put in :o)04:51
asachave you read the "states" page?04:52
asacour bug procedures are documented here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/Procedures04:52
asacah ok04:52
asaci think that page would be a perfect place to fill in a more general introduction04:53
JenFraggleit is a bit small at present04:53
asacexactly ... the states page should be more specific though04:54
JenFraggleit has the old states on it, doesn't it?04:55
asacok ... just fixed the states page to use the new bug-tracker state Incomplete instead of Needs info04:55
asacJenFraggle: just fixed it :) ^^^04:55
asacits still valid04:55
asacits not yet clear how we will the Todo and Triaged states ... but since confirmed still exists, there is no need to hurry04:56
asacJenFraggle: ok ... so basically our workflow is like this:04:56
asac1. bugs come in as New (previously Unconfirmed)04:57
JenFraggleincomplete is the one for beginners, is that right?04:57
asacJenFraggle: more or less ... yes04:57
asacwhen bugs come in as "New" someone has to look at it and decide whats next04:57
asacin general a bug can be a feature bug, a crash bug ... or a packaging bug04:58
asacfor now we subsume feature bugs and packaging bugs.04:58
asacso basically its just ... either its a crasher ... or something else04:58
asacdepending on this there are different activities that need to be done to get a bug started04:59
asacfor crashers its getting a proper crash report04:59
asacok ... when you see a "New" crash bug you move it to incomplete05:00
asacin case there is no crash report attached, the task that needs to get done is a simple wone:05:00
asac(so when moving it to Incomplete you set the tag, so people that want to help on needreport bugs can get a good list bugs that they can process)05:01
asacneed report task is simple: try to get the crash report the user forgot or didn't manage to attach05:01
asaconce the crash report is attached it needs a retrace, so we tag it as mt-needretrace05:02
asaca retrace allows us to see details of a crash report:05:02
asace.g. where did the crash occur in the program source code and what values were assigned to the variables at the time of the crash05:02
asacthus you can use a different name for retrace: "symbolize"05:03
JenFragglei see.  i haven't done anything like this which so that makes it awkward to write about05:03
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asacJenFraggle: its not needed to describe in detail ... just like above in your own words would be good05:03
asacJenFraggle: think about it like this:05:04
JenFragglei just need to have an idea of what happens and at present I don't really know.  this is really helpful05:04
asaca crash reporter in its initial/raw form is just a huge blob of binary data ... that you cannot see anything about05:04
asacretracing aka symbolizing brings makes it readable for human eyes05:05
asacJenFraggle: let me show you an example05:05
asacwait a second05:05
asace.g. this is a unsymbolized stacktrace: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/6493913/Stacktrace.txt05:07
asacwhile this is the symbolized one: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/6638744/retraced_Stacktrace.txt05:07
asacin the symbolized case you can see exactly in what function it crashed in (e.g. the top most line)05:07
JenFragglei wondered why they were really short sometimes, those ones need to be retraced05:07
asacyes right05:08
asacthey are just binary blobs without much sense ... so when you retrace you can see the backtrace ... that is often helpful to figure out the cause05:08
JenFragglethat is what i was using to do the clue files too05:08
asachow to retrace is out of scope for the introduction.05:08
asacyes right05:09
asacyou try to find duplicates by matching the functions in the backtrace05:09
asacaka stacktrace :)05:09
asacok ... lets go further ... if you have specific questions about this (e.g. when writing etc.) you can always ask05:10
JenFraggleyep sure05:10
asacok ... this is pretty much the end of the "special" treatment of crash reports.05:10
=== hjmf is stuck with the way apport reports stuff (sorry for the noise)
hjmfthis is the expected output http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27023/05:10
asachjmf: no problem :)05:10
hjmfand this is how apport reports it bug 12199605:11
ubotuLaunchpad bug 121996 in firefox "apport hook test" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12199605:11
hjmfcheck the ExtensionSummary file05:11
hjmfdunno why05:11
asachjmf: maybe everything that is "multi-line" goes to a attachment?05:11
hjmfyes, that's not the problem05:11
asacno it isn't05:11
asacwhats the problem?05:12
hjmfthe problem is that the attachment should have 29 lines as in  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27023/05:12
hjmfand it just have 5 :/05:12
hjmfI thought it was because the encoding, so I unicode the utf-8 strings05:13
hjmfbut no way :/05:13
asacyeah ... my initial idea was that it chokes on some character05:13
asac... age Pack' ( ... <- maybe the apostroph ?05:14
hjmfno, because I tested before and it wasn't there05:14
hjmf... it is just a string, apport should take it as it is05:15
asachjmf: don't waste too much time in it ... maybe give the apport code a quick glance but if you don't see any obvious bug i would just suggest to write this to a mktemp file and attach that as any file05:15
asacanyway ... smells like an apport bug05:15
asacapport hooks are probably not that much tested05:15
asacwe should be one of the lead-users :)05:15
hjmf:) I was thinking of something like that05:15
asacmaybe it assumes some fixed length?05:16
asachave you tried to dump some arbitrary text05:16
asacand see if it gets cut?05:16
hjmfI'm gonna test first a dump into a file-like object to see what happens...05:16
asacthere is text :)05:16
asachjmf: maybe look at code05:17
asace.g. what is done when05:17
asachopefully its well encapsulated and can be seen from code in 1-2 minutes :)05:17
asacJenFraggle: where are we?05:17
hjmfty (and sorry) :)05:18
asachjmf: no problem at all :)05:18
asacah rigth05:18
asacok  ... once you have symbolized a crash report you try to find duplicates :)05:19
asacin the same time you try to find a testcase ... which is actually the same that you do when you receive a non-crasher bug05:19
asacso ... when a testcase is needed you tag it as mt-testcase05:19
asac(note: we are still in incomplete)05:20
asacmt-testcase is a more or less simple task as well05:20
asacyou try to get a good step by step description from the reporter05:20
asachow to reproduce the bug05:20
asacif he complains about broken GUI et al you also want screenshots05:20
asacbasically you are done with mt-needtestcase if there is a description that allows others05:21
asacto verify if the bug exists05:21
JenFragglemakes sense05:21
asacso if you find a testcase you can either reproduce with that ... or maybe you cannot reproduce on your own05:22
hjmffixed bug 122006 (ExtensionSummary.txt) :)05:22
ubotuLaunchpad bug 122006 in firefox "apport hook test" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12200605:22
hjmfbye I'm off05:22
asachjmf: great05:22
hjmfcool :D05:22
asacJenFraggle: in case you cannot reproduce you cannot say: "this is not a bug" ... as it might only appear in some specific setups05:22
asacJenFraggle: so you tag it mt-needtester05:23
asacJenFraggle: basically mt-needtester exists to verify if the testcase attached is good enough to reproduce by third parties05:23
asactask is like: you try to verify if the testcase works ... and if the bug is not reproducible for everyone you offer to assist to test things for a developer05:25
asacok ... when you have a testcase that works a bug is not incomplete anymore05:25
asacbut since you might not be really sure if a bug is complete now ... you tagg it mt-confirm and keep it in incomplete state05:25
asacmt-confirm is then a task for skilled people that can review testcase and crash report if its good enough to go on05:26
asacif it is, it goes to state confirmed :)05:26
asacotherwise the mt-confirm processor will drop instructions what is still needed and tagg accordingly.05:26
asace.g. if he thinks that the testcase is not good enough he will tagg mt-needtestcase05:26
asacin this way triagers get feedback and will probably learn.05:27
asacok ... confirmed has again a few sub-states05:27
asacin general confirmed exists to find a solution for us05:28
asacsolution means: either push things upstream (if we cannot deal with them) ... or evaluate a solution05:28
asacfor pushing things upstream we have two substates: mt-upstream and mt-postupstream.05:29
asacmt-upstream exists because bugzilla.mozilla.org has loads of bugs ... and we don't want to post duplicates05:29
asacso we need a few people that try to find if a bug already exists.05:29
asacif we are pretty sure that a bug is not yet posted we move to mt-postupstream ...05:29
asacthat task implies that someone reports an upstream bug and later volunteers to answer questions that mozilla developers might have05:30
asacok ... if you posted the bug upstream you will tagg it mt-confirm ... so a developer or skilled triager can verify that the bug was submitted properly and that05:31
asacits on track ... e.g. the bug was confirmed upstream, which is essential that any mozilla developer will ever look at it05:31
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asaconce the bug is properly posted upstream and on-track the ubuntu bug moves to state "in progress"05:32
asacas there is not much more to do for us05:32
asacwe delegated the bug upstream05:32
asacok ... for bugs that are important enough that we fix them on our own ... or if they are ubuntu specific bugs (like packaging problems)05:32
asacwe tag things as mt-eval instead of mt-upstream05:33
asacthis means that people should evaluate where the problem stems from and how we can fix things05:33
asacthose bugs are probably the ones that need most knowledge about packaging and even C/C++ coding in some cases05:33
=== JenFraggle shudders
asacand are probably suitable for MOTUs or someone else interested in that05:34
=== JenFraggle relaxes
asacthere are cases where we want to help upstream (if they are important) ... those are mt-eval as well.05:34
asacok ... as always when evaluation is done and solution is outlined in the bug you can tag mt-confirm05:35
asacso developer can again verify that it really is feasible and can be worked on05:35
asacfor now the developer moves those bugs to In progress as well ... but i think we will use triaged as well05:35
asacnot as well, but instead of it05:35
asacso in progress really means ... its in progress (like in someone is working on it)05:36
asacok .. i think the rest is easy to understand ... when bugs that are in progress get fixed .. the ideally go to "Fix Committed" as soon as there is a patch available or the fix was really committed to some repository05:37
asaconce we release a package with that fix it goes to "Fix Released" :)05:37
asacthen we are done05:37
asacand have processed the bug from New to Fix Released05:37
asacmost bugs that go to cofirmed should get fix released at some point (in an idealistic world)05:38
JenFragglekeep the punters happy and all that05:38
asacbut hopefully most bugs won't go to confirmed, but are rejected in state incomplete as "Invalid"05:38
asacnot hopefully ... but if you don't get a good testcase out of a bug you often just cannot fix it.05:39
asacso crashers without duplicates and no testcase get rejected after some time of inactivity (i think its 2 month now)05:39
asacif a bug doesn't find any valid tester it gets invalid as well at some point05:39
asacsame of course for testcase05:40
JenFragglemakes sense05:40
asachowever if the process is perfect there would be nearly zero Confirmed -> Invalid transitions ;)05:40
asacbut in reality that will happen as well i guess05:40
asacok i think thats enough05:41
asachopefully ubuntulog recorded this seession :)05:41
asacso you can reread ;)05:41
asaclets see05:41
JenFragglei was going to save transcript.  i don't know about ubuntulog05:41
asacyeah please save as well :)05:42
asacjust in case the ubuntulog was broken05:42
asachmmm its here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-mozillateam-current.html05:42
asacbut doesn't appear to be 'live' ... or even broken05:42
JenFragglei have saved a transcript05:43
asacJenFraggle: maybe you can post this transcript to wiki ?05:43
asacsomewhere linked from the bug procedure page :)05:44
JenFraggleas is or edited?05:44
asacdunno  ...maybe cut the hjmf discussion05:44
asacthe rest is good as a transscript05:44
asachope it was a bit helpful :)05:45
JenFragglevery helpful, thanks05:45
asaci think you need to chew on this ... especially since i ran through the confirmed state :)05:45
asacbut i tried my best :)05:46
JenFragglei'll work on this and let you know when i'm ready to find out where to find good beginner ones which was the other suggestion05:46
asacyeah cool!05:46
JenFraggleit's good for me too as i'm learning by doing the wiki05:47
asacanyone on gutsy here? ... does the "report bug ..." menu entry still exist in firefox gutsy?05:47
JenFragglebuilding up to being brave enough to have a go at a bug myself one day05:47
asacJenFraggle: edit right away05:47
asacJenFraggle: yes ... you can definitly help on Incomplete bugs ... maybe i will find the time to gather some good bugs as a reference to see how easy things are ;)05:48
asacJenFraggle: otherwise if you subscribe to mozilla-bugs05:48
asacand read some of the bugs ... then you should be able to see how things work :)05:48
JenFraggleasac: i think i have already05:48
asacah cool05:49
asacdon't be shy ... we read most reports and if you really do things wrong, we will fix things and let you know :)05:49
asacwhich is not bad at all05:49
asacits often easier to learn by doing than just by watching :)05:49
JenFragglewell i'm going to log off now and do some work on it, thanks for your help05:50
asacJenFraggle: yeah ... thanks 205:50
=== asac doing something else ... will be available though :)
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bluekujaheya asac06:18
bluekujait was --enable-renderer=Agg and?06:18
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asacbluekuja: --disable-klash :)06:36
asacbut s/Agg/agg/ ;)06:36
bluekujaI'm quite angry now06:36
bluekujafor a guy that commented my work06:37
asacwhich work?06:37
bluekujaI did an error in versioning a package06:37
bluekujaon a debdiff06:37
bluekujaand he said "your broken debdiffs (I don't think that's the first time)"06:37
bluekujahe dont know me06:37
bluekujaand my work06:37
bluekujaand he say stuff like that06:38
asachmm ... a troll?06:38
bluekujaa MOTU06:38
ubotuLaunchpad bug 121593 in gmsh "Merge gmsh (2.0.7-1.1) from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Incomplete] 06:41
bluekujaasac: that's it06:41
asacok ... i don't see much offending in there06:42
asacadri2000 ?06:42
bluekujapm ;)06:42
asacbluekuja: he is french ... so not a native speaker06:43
asactry to assume good faith06:43
bluekujaI'm italian06:43
bluekujanot native too06:43
asacyeah ... doesn't matter ;) ... some are better in english ... some are worse06:44
asacfrench tend be at the bottom of the foodchain ;) when it comes to english ;)06:44
bluekujaI know06:45
bluekujabut it's what he wants to mean06:45
asachehe ... did he tell you what other parts are not-good of the debdiff?06:45
bluekujajust versioning06:45
bluekuja(my error)06:45
asacbluekuja: which debdiff got uploaded?06:46
asaci think adri's comment: "And it seems that the sponsor who uploaded the first debdiff failed to see that it was a bad debdiff."06:47
asacpoints out that the sponsor took the wrong one :)06:47
asace.g. the one with cruft06:47
asacso nothing against you, but the sponsor that is06:47
bluekujahe uploaded second one06:47
bluekujathen I made06:47
bluekujaand bug-fix06:47
bluekujaand it got applied06:47
bluekujaon debian06:48
bluekujainstead of ubuntu previous version06:48
bluekuja(bug-fix not a merge)06:48
asacah ok06:48
asacbluekuja: just go on :)06:49
asacdunno if you pinged im through pm first06:49
asacin case, just don't do it in future06:49
bluekujaI'm currently talking with him06:49
bluekujaI dont like what he said06:50
asacbe careful06:50
asacyou might esacalate this whole thing by bugging him06:50
asacdo it in public06:50
bluekujaI just want to clarify what he said me06:50
asacthen things will be better thought out06:50
bluekujahe said that06:50
bluekuja"when a motu told me "you did that wrong" I said "ok", fixed it, etc."06:51
bluekujaand btw it's what I do06:51
bluekujabut I've never heard of a MOTU06:51
bluekujathat comments out my work06:51
bluekujalike he did06:51
asacyeah ... just remember: "when you feel angry", stop communicating about that issue until you found rest :)06:51
bluekujarespect is something everyone should have06:51
asaci really have no idea what exactly was said :) ... just do what you want ;)06:52
asacjust be nice :)06:53
bluekujahard to be nice06:53
bluekujawhen I'm angry like now06:53
bluekujaasac: this things make me feel really sad06:56
bluekujaasac; I'm building gnash with those two configure variables, then I check if it builds against libagg07:03
bluekujaand then we're done07:03
asacbluekuja: get over it ... its not worth to waste any emotional affection on this .... most people are nice07:07
asachowever there always will be conflicts, smart-ass et al07:07
asacbluekuja: actually I would like to have klash as well07:07
asacbut atm it doesn't build with agg07:07
asace.g. configure fails07:07
bluekujaah yea07:07
asacso ... to get klash going with agg we need to backport something from cvs HEAD07:08
asaconce gnash builds well with agg we can do ... try that.07:08
asacanyway ... for agg it should be enough to see that gnash without klash works07:08
asac... so we can upload new agg version :07:08
bluekujanow building07:08
bluekujaasac: what do you think about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-themes-ubuntu/+bug/107165?07:29
ubotuLaunchpad bug 107165 in firefox-themes-ubuntu "patch to add menu icons" [Undecided,Confirmed] 07:29
asacbluekuja: src/custom/browser.css.diff looks broken07:33
asaclooks like its a diff of a diff07:33
asacthough the original diff wasn't even unified07:33
bluekujawell I'll leave it where it is then07:33
asacmaybe ask author for clarification07:33
bluekujaasac; I'm getting a E: Couldn't find package swfmill07:40
bluekujain unstable07:40
bluekujabuild-machine is updated07:41
bluekujaI can see it on debian PTS07:41
bluekujachecking something07:43
bluekujaok fixed07:45
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asacbluekuja: ah you work on debian?07:51
asaci was thinking you are doing this on ubuntu ;)07:51
bluekujaasac: yeah, using debian build-machine07:52
asacanyway swfmill should be in debian07:52
asacwhile its not in ubuntu afaik07:52
asacshould not be needed for gnash07:52
asacwhy do you get it?07:52
asacbluekuja: please don't use debian package07:52
asacbut ubuntu source07:52
asacdebian is stuck in NEW07:52
asacso in debian you get old package07:52
asacversion should be 0.8.0something07:53
asacand in that package there is no swfmill build-dep :)07:54
asacor build from bzr07:54
asacits in my code07:54
asacpage on launchpad07:54
bluekujaasac: should i use ubuntu's debian dir for gnash?07:55
bluekujanot debian one then07:55
asacyes forget about debian07:55
asacuse ubuntu's or my bzr branch07:55
asacand the ubuntu orig07:55
bluekujaasac: branch name?07:56
bluekujafor gnash07:57
asacthats somehow the diff we need on branch :)08:23
asacto get kde build with agg08:23
asacif we are happy it just applies ... but more likely that need to be merged somehow08:25
asacbut who knows :)08:25
asacbluekuja: ^^^08:25
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bluekujaasac: back10:38
bluekujamake: ./autogen.sh: Command not found10:39
bluekujabuilding gnash10:39
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gnomefreaki mean /.11:27
=== gnomefreak gone agian

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