=== Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-mobile: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
=== Topic (#ubuntu-mobile): set by mdz at Mon May 14 14:24:09 2007
[07:14] <happycube> nokia 770's @ woot for $129.95
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[07:26] <pwnguin> is the nokia internet tablet an intended target of ubuntu-mobile?
[07:30] <pwnguin> cuz there's 770s on sale for 125 at the moment
[07:34] <happycube> not at first go
[07:34] <happycube> it'd have to be arm based and they'd have to get past all the non-open bits
[07:35] <pwnguin> oh?
[07:36] <pwnguin> is this not targetting the ARM platform?
[07:37] <happycube> not at first
[07:37] <pwnguin> "at first"
[07:38] <happycube> i'm not sure
[07:38] <pwnguin> everything i read screams, nokia tablets
[07:39] <pwnguin> except for Intel's "new low power intel chipset"
[07:39] <happycube> it's that
[07:40] <pwnguin> if i were conspiratorial, id imagine canonical was hired to develop a platform for a new nokia (or intel) tablet
[07:41] <happycube> oh we know that already ;)  intel is sponsoring it
[07:42] <pwnguin> strange
[07:42] <pwnguin> x86 low power
[07:43] <pwnguin> i guess it doesn't matter much
[07:43] <pwnguin> i already have an x86 toshiba tablet
[07:48] <pwnguin> its a little strange, reading the open mailing list of a secret project
[07:59] <happycube> it's not a secret ;)
[07:59] <happycube> intel's detailed plans for MID's and <=2w 45nm pentium-m's
[07:59] <happycube> secret would be if AMD was planning something, which they can't/won't
[07:59] <happycube> (for one thing it'd mean an ATI video chip... i'm suuuure shuttleworth would go along with bundling fglrx)
[08:03] <pwnguin> or
[08:03] <pwnguin> they could open the drivers ;)
[08:04] <pwnguin> or improve the existing ones
[08:04] <pwnguin> radeon isnt that bad
[08:05] <pwnguin> so really this is targetting a replacement for UPMC platform
[08:06] <pwnguin> makes sense
[08:06] <pwnguin> makes software cheaper for hardware makers, puts pressure on microsoft, and generally sells more chips for intel 
[08:07] <happycube> yup
[08:07] <happycube> r500 *just* got an alpha 2d driver this last week - from reverse engineering
[08:07] <happycube> nvidia at least works on the free 2d drivers
[08:07] <happycube> *their
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[08:09] <pwnguin> kinda
[08:10] <pwnguin> it's also so poorly commented they're the only ones who really can
[08:10] <pwnguin> (this hasn't stopeed me from trying)
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=== Mithrandir arghs at sdk-default-icons having file conflicts with some standard themes
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[02:02] <Mithrandir> hiya agoliveira 
[02:03] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: do you have a script or something to get the hildon desktop up and running?  I'm still trying to make head and tails of the last two weeks. :-)
[02:03] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Hi.
[02:03] <agoliveira> agoliveira: Yes, hold on.
[02:04] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Check this out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure
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[02:05] <Mithrandir> do you really need a chroot for it?
[02:06] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Some things might not be necessary like editing /etc/hildon-desktop/desktop.conf as I did that in the package already.
[02:06] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: You can also use Gutsy itself.
[02:08] <mdz> Mithrandir,agoliveira: ahve you noticed this?
[02:08] <mdz> Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/bora/free/source/Sources.gz  401 Unauthorized
[02:08] <mdz> Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/bora/non-free/source/Sources.gz  401 Unauthorized
[02:08] <mdz> Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/bora/extras/source/Sources.gz  401 Unauthorized
[02:08] <Mithrandir> mdz: seems to work from here
[02:08] <agoliveira> mdz: No, where did you get it?
[02:08] <agoliveira> mdz: Works here.
[02:09] <mdz> I'm at millbank
[02:09] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: also, do we have a sample hildon app that can be used for testing if stuff display well?
[02:10] <agoliveira> agoliveira: Nothing specific AFAIK.
[02:10] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Nothing specific AFAIK.
[02:11] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: But usually running standard gnome applications works.
[02:25] <ian_brasil> It might be nice for the docs to create/implement/test one standard app the whole way through development
[02:25] <ian_brasil> maemo follows this approach somewhat
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[02:51] <Mithrandir> ian_brasil: yes, I think that would be sane
[03:14] <Mithrandir> mdz: do you have sdk-default-icons in bzr?
[03:15] <mdz> Mithrandir: no, because there was no upstream to import yet (and the nokia guys said they were going to add it there)
[03:15] <mdz> (very soon)
[03:15] <Mithrandir> ok
[03:16] <mdz> it may be in svn by now
[03:16] <mdz> tommi or moises should be able to say
[03:22] <Mithrandir> mdz: there are also some file conflicts between it and hicolor-icon-theme ?
[03:29] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: How did you see that? I don't remember having those conflics on my notebook that I'm using for testing.
[03:31] <Mithrandir> conflicts over usr/share/icons/hicolor/index.theme
[03:34] <tko_> MDK said he'd work something out this week. however I'm not sure it'll take care of the conflict
[03:34] <Mithrandir> it seems to me like you're kinda trying to be a hicolor theme, but not really?
[03:36] <tko_> like we didn't really get debian packaging, we didn't really get hicolor icon theme either
[03:36] <tko_> though in a way our icons are just add-ons and regenerating icon cache should fix it, but then our packaging was done such a way that it included the cache... *sigh*
[03:37] <tko_> actually that should be getting fixed and you shouldn't get conflicts
[03:39] <Mithrandir> hm, the theme cache is just one bit of this.
[03:42] <mdz> Mithrandir: I thought I fixed that by changing it to use dh_iconcache rather than shipping the index.theme
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[03:42] <mdz> but I was in a great hurry and may have botched it
[03:42] <mdz> Mithrandir: at any rate, things are moving toward using chroots for development, where this should be a non-issue
[03:44] <Mithrandir> true
[03:45] <amitk> robr: could you ask jacob_laptop to subscribe to kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com. I reworked his poulsbo patches and posted them there. He should probably check the archives for some comments
[03:46] <agoliveira> I second that. It's much safer that way.
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[06:08] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Did you give a try on Rusty's project builder?
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[07:10] <ian_brasil> i have a base gutsy chroot installed...the process to get a Hildon Desktop is now  apt-get install hildon-desktop right??
[07:12] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: apt-get install ubuntu-mobile will bring also some required packages like themes
[07:13] <ian_brasil> ok i try that...thx
[07:13] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: In case something fails, check out this document here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure and report back what happened, ok?
[07:14] <ian_brasil> i will do
[07:14] <matt_c> apt-get install ubuntu-mobile and the preperation/running scripts worked for me the other day
[07:15] <ian_brasil> sweet
[07:18] <matt_c> installing ubuntu-mobile a few days ago broke the application menu but I think that's been fixed (I haven't tried again recently)
[07:31] <ian_brasil> do i need to change my gutsy sources.list to install ubuntu-mobile
[07:33] <matt_c> ian_brasil: it should be in the standard sources for gutsy
[07:34] <ian_brasil> Mmm..i get could not find package
[07:35] <ian_brasil> i have deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu gutsy main in my sources.list
[07:37] <agoliveira> matt_c: Yes, the broken menus have being fixed, I don't know if reached the repositories yet.
[07:40] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: That's strange, do you have the universe rep enabled?
[07:40] <ian_brasil> i must be doing something wrong as apt-cache search hildon-desktop returns nothing as well
[07:40] <ian_brasil> no i only have that 1 line in my source.list
[07:40] <agoliveira> Ah...
[07:41] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: You need to add universe session to it.
[07:41] <ian_brasil> ok
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[07:43] <matt_c> ahh sorry, adding universe has become so second nature that I forget that I've done it sometimes
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[07:52] <ian_brasil> its ok...i am writing this up so just wanted to cross the t's and dot the i's basically...it works ok now
[07:58] <ian_brasil> it bugged out installing ubuntu-mobile
[07:58] <ian_brasil> Errors were encountered while processing:
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  dbus
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  dbus-x11
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  libgnomevfs2-0
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  libhildonwm0
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  libhildondesktop0
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  libhildon-thumbnail0
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  libhildonmime0
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  libhildonfm2
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  libgnome2-0
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  libbonoboui2-0
[07:59] <ian_brasil>  libgnomeui-0
[07:59] <ian_brasil>  libgtkhtml3.14-19
[07:59] <ian_brasil>  libhildonhelp0
[07:59] <ian_brasil>  hildon-desktop
[07:59] <ian_brasil>  ubuntu-mobile
[07:59] <ian_brasil> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[08:04] <ian_brasil> the dpkg.log shows lines like:
[08:04] <ian_brasil> 2007-06-25 17:52:33 status half-installed libhildonmime0 1.9.5-1ubuntu1
[08:04] <ian_brasil> 2007-06-25 17:52:33 status unpacked libhildonmime0 1.9.5-1ubuntu1
[08:04] <ian_brasil> 2007-06-25 17:52:33 status unpacked libhildonmime0 1.9.5-1ubuntu1
[08:04] <ian_brasil> 2007-06-25 17:52:33 install hildon-fm-l10n-engb <none> 3.0-sardine1ubuntu1
[08:04] <ian_brasil> 2007-06-25 17:52:33 status half-installed hildon-fm-l10n-engb 3.0-sardine1ubuntu1
[08:07] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: Is there any message saying like "trying to overwrite /usr/share/icons/hicolor/index.theme"...?
[08:07] <ian_brasil> hold on
[08:09] <ian_brasil> no...just that half-installed lines
[08:10] <ian_brasil> i dunno if this helps but i installed nano to start with which complained about locales and defaults
[08:10] <agoliveira> I mean, above the line "Errors were encountered while processing:"
[08:11] <ian_brasil> no it was just the sub-process returned an error code
[08:11] <agoliveira> Ah, ok. I just saw something....
[08:11] <agoliveira> hold on
[08:13] <ian_brasil> you want the whole dpkg error?
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[08:14] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: Are you trying to install it on a gutsy machine?
[08:14] <ian_brasil> on a feisty machine with a gutsy chroot
[08:16] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: Hmmm... in my Gutsy machine worked like a charm... can you send me the logs by email? It's easier for me to read. adilson@ubuntu.com
[08:16] <ian_brasil> on their way
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[08:17] <agoliveira> ian_brasil:Thanks.
[08:18] <rusty> does anyone know amit's normal working hours?
[08:18] <rusty> or.. amit, are you listening?
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[08:22] <agoliveira> rusty: Hi Rusty. IIRC, Amit is UTC +3 so it's a bit late over there now.
[08:22] <rusty> ok, thanks... i just didn't know if he was they kind of guy who hacks all night and sleeps all day
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[08:34] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: I think I know what happened. The dbus postinstall failed and that broke the sequence. I'll check it out because it was working.
[08:36] <amitk> rusty: hi :)  My usual working hours are 0900-1700 UTC.
[08:37] <rusty> hey amit... i was going to introduce you to ToddBrandt who is working on the power stuff
[08:38] <amitk> hi ToddBrandt
[08:40] <agoliveira> kwwii: Ken, do you know where the icons at this page came from? They are quite familiar but I can't remember where I saw... http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8166710404.html
[08:41] <amitk> rusty, ToddBrandt: I will be catching up with Kylem on the UME kernel configs (hopefully tomorrow). Are there any power related 'items' that need special attention?
[08:41] <kwwii> asac: 
[08:41] <kwwii> erm
[08:41] <kwwii> agoliveira: I think that they are from a stock gnome installation
[08:41] <rusty> amitk, i don't think so... ToddBrandt would be talking more about the user space side of things
[08:42] <rusty> amitk, other then using a tickless configuration
[08:42] <kwwii> agoliveira: looks like some tango icons mixed with some app icons
[08:43] <amitk> rusty: tickless - ofcourse. I am assuming HPET-support will come automatically. Anything in terms of user-space power policies?
[08:43] <agoliveira> kwwii: Ah... fine. It's just that they looked familar, no big deal. Thanks.
[08:43] <rusty> amitk, the user-space power policies is exactly what ToddBrandt is working on... which is why i wanted to get him connected to you
[08:44] <kwwii> agoliveira: no problem
[08:46] <amitk> rusty: great. I guess I will run into him soon enough. If there is already some documents, you can send them to amit_at_ubuntu_dot_com
[08:47] <rusty> amitk, actually, i was having ToddBrandt start creating a blueprint and dumping all of his current design work into that blueprint
[08:48] <rusty> amitk, is that the right thing to do?
[08:49] <amitk> rusty: that would indeed be the best thing to do. He and I can then work on getting the blueprints in shape and break them into smaller components if needed.
[08:51] <rusty> amitk, cool... i think he might have stepped out for lunch just before you started talking on IRC, but before that i was pointing him to launchpad.net and he was starting to create a new project so he could fill out a new blueprint.  We didn't know if there was a different place he should be adding the content, but worse case he would just move it when we found out the right spec
[08:54] <amitk> rusty: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/power-management-in-ubuntu is where I dumped my current list of ideas worth pursuing
[08:55] <amitk> rusty: I think ToddBrandt should create a new one, subscribe me to it and then we could discuss how to best separate out kerne/userspace stuff.
[08:56] <rusty> amitk, ToddBrandt see the above when you get back to you computer :->
[08:57] <amitk> rusty: I am done for today. I will catch you tomorrow once I have had some time discussing details of the UME sprint
[08:58] <rusty> amitk, ok, see you l8r
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[09:47] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: I'm installing a chroot from scratch to see what's happening as the one I had is working fine.
[09:48] <ian_brasil> ok...let me know
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[10:27] <ian_brasil> agoliveira: looks like the first dpkg error relates to dbus: Setting up dbus (1.0.2-5ubuntu1) ...
[10:27] <ian_brasil> invoke-rc.d: initscript dbus, action "start" failed.
[10:28] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: Exactly and it seens to be afecting upstream as well. I'm cheking it out.
[10:38] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: dbus 1.0.2-5 has indeed a bug making it bombs when no services are active. I'm checking out how to solve this.
[10:39] <ian_brasil> cool...how did you find this out?
[10:43] <rusty> ian_brasil, agoliveira are you guys trying to get a fresh chroot working?
[10:43] <rusty> if so... you need proc mounted to install dbus
[10:44] <rusty> in general, you really need /proc, /sys, and it's a good idea to have /tmp bind mounted for a bunch of different things
[10:44] <agoliveira> rusty: Yes but  /proc /sys are mounted
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[10:44] <agoliveira> /tmp too btw
[10:45] <rusty> hmm...
[10:45] <ian_brasil> i added to /etc/fstab
[10:45] <rusty> unless an update has been made to dbus since yesterday, i can install dbus in a chroot with no problems
[10:46] <agoliveira> rusty: What's your dbus version?
[10:46] <agoliveira> I mean, the package
[10:46] <rusty> let me see...
[10:47] <rusty>  1.0.2-5ubuntu1
[10:48] <agoliveira> Gee... same here. Weird.
[10:48] <rusty> i might be doing another step
[10:48] <agoliveira> The funny thing is that I had one chroot working fine.
[10:48] <agoliveira> Which one?
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[10:52] <rusty> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/project-builder/ubuntu/annotate/rusty%40rusty-laptop-20070624230429-q1d2i5cq8krp71f6?file_id=project.py-20070611215750-v6m0mwari40ckyel-30
[10:53] <rusty> search for "def mount" to see my function for mounting a chroot
[10:54] <rusty> the only thing else i see special is i copy over the resolv.conf and hosts files
[10:54] <rusty> i can't image dbus needing a network
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[10:57] <ian_brasil> in maemo bora scratchbox there were problems with resolv.conf and hosts file...maybe it is this? 
[10:58] <agoliveira> No.
[10:58] <agoliveira> I got it.
[11:00] <agoliveira> I'm not 100% sure about this but, if I understood it correctly, there is indeed a bug that prevents dbus from start if there is no processes running already. I you're binding the chroot proc with /proc, it works.
[11:01] <agoliveira> So: sudo mount --bind /proc gutsy/proc/ solved the problem.
[11:02] <agoliveira> Or at least masked it if is there really a bug ;)
[11:02] <rusty> agoliveira, i thought you said that you already mounted proc?
[11:04] <agoliveira> rusty: Sorry, I wasn't clear. Inside the chroot proc was shown as mounted I didn't do it manualy.
[11:06] <ian_brasil> that works for me too
[11:06] <agoliveira> rusty: But, of course, it was empty. I didn't realized that. I'll add to the TODO to mount /proc and /sys.
[11:09] <rusty> and add /tmp or else attempts to run an app with a Xephyr window will fail
[11:10] <rusty> not to mention the network config files, or else apps that need a network will not know how to resolve addresses
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[11:13] <agoliveira> /tmp is there already but I didn't have to do anything regarding the network files but add the universe repository to /etc/apt/sources.conf
[11:15] <agoliveira> I got to go now but I'll see if I can check this again later today yet.
[11:18] <ian_brasil> i still need to comment out the StatusBar on /etc/hildon-desktop/desktop.conf 
[11:18] <ian_brasil> ?
[11:21] <agoliveira> agoliveira: I alreayd fixed that but didn't check if the update reached the repository.
[11:22] <ian_brasil> no problem
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[12:29] <robr> BenC, did our poulsbo/menlow patches make it into your kernel?
[12:30] <BenC> robr: not this upload, but amitk will get them in tomorrow and build you guys a kernel to try out
[12:30] <BenC> should have another kernel upload in a week
[12:30] <robr> BenC, ok. we'll test it then when it's available