[01:47] <wfarr> Anyone else noticing GNOME sometimes not logging in since today's updates?
[01:58] <Odd_Bloke> Hey guys, I'm running Xubuntu Tribe 1 and my entire X session seems to seize up every few minutes.  It responds only to Ctrl-Alt-Backspace, I cannot even use Ctrl-Alt-Fn to analyse what's going on.  Any ideas as to what I can do to stop this?
[02:27] <pwnguin> ok, wacom-tools is screwy
[02:27] <pwnguin> you'd think that the order of xsetwacom settings wouldn't matter
[03:44] <DigitalNinja> Has anyone installed Gutsy yet?
[03:44] <MugginsM> yes
[03:44] <DigitalNinja> What did you think?
[03:44] <MugginsM> it's been surprisingly stable for me so far :)
[03:44] <DigitalNinja> Nice!
[03:44] <DigitalNinja> Any cool new features
[03:45] <MugginsM> nothing major that I've noticed yet, but I think there're quite a lot of cleanups under the hood
[03:45] <DigitalNinja> That's always nice
[03:45] <DigitalNinja> What about multimedia codecs
[03:45] <DigitalNinja> Were they easy to install
[03:46] <MugginsM> I don't know, I upgraded from Feisty where I have the Fluendo ones already
[03:46] <DigitalNinja> Fluendo?
[03:46] <MugginsM> commercial codecs
[03:47] <MugginsM> http://www.fluendo.com/
[03:47] <DigitalNinja> You mean the non free
[03:47] <DigitalNinja> let me check that out
[03:47] <MugginsM> yes
[03:48] <MugginsM> I still don't know how I feel about closed-source codecs
[03:48] <DigitalNinja> Is this the w32codec etc...
[03:48] <DigitalNinja> I'm confused
[03:48] <MugginsM> w32codecs are of unknown legal status I think
[03:48] <DigitalNinja> True
[03:48] <MugginsM> in that they're probably ok if you have Windows, but maybe not
[03:49] <MugginsM> the Fluendo ones are legal
[03:49] <RAOF> Actually, I think their legal status is pretty clearly known, just that people want to use them :)
[03:49] <DigitalNinja> The developers just took the Windows dll's and made them work with Linux
[03:49] <DigitalNinja> Did you pay for the Fluendo codecs?
[03:49] <MugginsM> I did, yes
[03:51] <DigitalNinja> How much
[03:52] <DigitalNinja> The website doesn't list a price
[03:52] <MugginsM> if you go to the web store. the prices are in euros
[03:53] <bur[n] er> is firefox broke for everyone?  I'm getting a segfault when i launch it
[03:53] <MugginsM> I don't watch all that much non-oss video, so I don't know how good they are, but I like to keep my machine as legal as possible :)
[03:53] <DigitalNinja> I see
[03:55] <MugginsM> bur[n] er: works for me, as of a sync about 12 hours ago
[06:21] <hansin321> Can anyone give me a quick pointer on how I can upgrade my Feisty install to Gutsy.  I think I do some sort of 'sudo apt-get dist-upgrade' but do I need to alter my repo sources list to call for Gutsy repos?  Thanks.
[06:23] <hansin321> I want to see if I can help catch some bugs.  I have a triple-boot system, so I am aware this isn't for daily production use and can boot into other options.  I figure if I comment out all other partition to be mounted in my fstab I should be relatively safe that no harm would be done to them (since they won't be mounted).  But I am also awart there are no guarantees.
[06:40] <RAOF> hansin321: So, you can either try "gksudo 'update-manager -c -d'", or "sudo sed -i s/feisty/gutsy/g /etc/apt/sources.list" followed by "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"
[06:50] <Jordan_U> I am seeing comments about bcm43xx in the changes for restricted manager, does that mean that the legal issues of distributing broadcom firmware has been worked out?
[06:52] <MugginsM> that'd be good, I'd be able to stop using OSX
[06:53] <MugginsM> but seems unlikely ;)
[06:53] <Amaranth> MugginsM: err
[06:53] <Amaranth> bcm43xx has been usable for about a year now
[06:53] <MugginsM> not on my powerbook
[06:53] <Amaranth> you just have to install the firmware manually
[06:53] <MugginsM> well, not without manually futzing around with firmware
[06:53] <Amaranth> wireless is not an excuse to keep using OS X :)
[06:53] <Amaranth> manually futzing?
[06:53] <MugginsM> with every freaking kernel upgrade
[06:53] <Amaranth> no, with ever kernel ABI change
[06:53] <Amaranth> every*
[06:54] <MugginsM> which is basically every one :)
[06:54] <hansin321> RAOF: Thanks for upgrade info.
[06:54] <Amaranth> not such a big deal in a released distro
[06:55] <Amaranth> and you can use bcm43xx-fwcutter to automate the whole thing
[06:56] <MugginsM> from Linux?
[06:56] <Amaranth> yes
[06:56] <Amaranth> well, you'd have to hook up to ethernet to do the update
[06:56] <MugginsM> cos I used to have to use some dodgy looking tool in OSX to get the image and copy it over to Linux
[06:57] <MugginsM> which aside from being a nuisance, felt legally dodgy
[06:58] <Amaranth> oh, it's pretty legally dodgy
[06:58] <MugginsM> yeah, that's the problem
[06:58] <Amaranth> well, the script to download the firmware automatically
[06:58] <MugginsM> I keep my computer as legal as possible
[06:58] <Amaranth> it's not illegal for you to use it, it's illegal for them to distribute it
[07:00] <MugginsM> I can't maintain the Superior Moral High Ground if I do that :)
[07:01] <calc> MugginsM: you may be able to replace your card with a different one if it is minipci
[07:01] <MugginsM> I'm not spending any more on my powerbook, it's a tech dead end :(
[07:01] <calc> MugginsM: on the amd64 laptop i used to have i replaced it with an intel wireless since there were drivers for it
[07:01] <calc> it cost ~ $20-30
[07:01] <MugginsM> I'll just be a lot more careful with my next laptop
[07:02] <calc> pretty much all intel based laptops now use intel wireless, a few don't but they are fairly uncommon
[07:02] <calc> its required to get the centrino logo
[07:03] <RAOF> And it's nicely supported (in Ubuntu.  Less so in Debian)
[07:04] <MugginsM> of course finding one with OSS video that can also play World of Warcraft is harder
[07:04] <MugginsM> makes wireless pale in comparison :)
[07:05] <calc> i got a relatively cheap laptop in early june with 3945
[07:05] <calc> toshiba a205-4577 $750 usd
[07:05] <calc> DanaG: the arrow key location or something else?
[07:05] <calc> the rest seems like the rest of the laptop keyboards i've seen in the past
[07:06] <DanaG> Insert and Delete are down where the right super and context-menu keys should be,
[07:06] <DanaG> and tilde is who-knows-where.
[07:06] <calc> on mine ins/del are in the upper right of the keyboard
[07:06] <calc> and tilde is in normal location on upper left
[07:06] <DanaG> Oh yeah, now HP offers even a 17" with choice of NVIDIA 8400 or 8600, or Intel IGP.
[07:07] <DanaG> Perhaps the same on 15.
[07:07] <DanaG> Core 2 Duo.
[07:07] <calc> HP's were significantly more money for the same specs
[07:07] <DanaG> But I haven't a clue whether it has GbE.
[07:08] <calc> got 15.4", Core 2 Duo 1.73GHz, 1GB DDR2-5300, 160GB HD, DVD-RW, webcam, intel wireless, intel video, firewire, etc
[07:08] <calc> doesn't have GbE but i rarely have it hooked up to wired anyway
[07:09] <Jordan_U> MugginsM, Little late, but yeah, the package bcm43xx-fwcutter is perfectly legal, updates firmware automatically, and works with all PPC macs AFIK
[07:12] <MugginsM> cool, I'll try it out
[07:12] <MugginsM> then all I'll need OSX for is driving projectors :)
[07:13] <Jordan_U> MugginsM, It is actually good to keep if for nothing other than Firmware upgrades, but the projector problem is being solved in Gutsy :)
[07:14] <MugginsM> cool, I can run Gutsy on it happily enough when my new work laptop arrives for Serious Stuff
[07:16] <DanaG> It may actually work.
[07:16] <MugginsM> excellent, I shall play with that
[07:16] <DanaG> It works for me with nvidia, but it doesn't properly change resolution.
[07:16] <DanaG> s/works/almost works/
[07:16] <MugginsM> I teach Linux but since I can't drive the projector from it I have to give them examples using OSX
[07:16] <RAOF> It seems to work just fine for me, with nvidia.
[07:16] <DanaG> I can only guess how Intel works.
[07:17] <MugginsM> which is fine for what I do, but a bit "impure"
[07:17] <Jordan_U> DanaG, Yea, I am having resolution problems also, I change it in the resolution preferences and it doesn't change
[07:17] <DanaG> Try nvidia-settings.
[07:17] <RAOF> Intel probably works better.  The intel drivers actually implement XRandR 1.2, right?
[07:18] <RAOF> Which should mean real, standardised, hotplug
[07:18] <DanaG> I have an old laptop that I'm tempted to try it on.
[07:18] <Jordan_U> MugginsM, Run DSL or Debian ( something small ) in a VM
[07:19] <MugginsM> jordan: I had thought of that, but it looked too hard
[07:19] <MugginsM> well, too much hassle
[07:19] <MugginsM> :)
[07:19] <phin> i had a neomagic card on my old laptop and ran ubuntu
[07:19] <Jordan_U> MugginsM, Qemu is easy
[07:19] <MugginsM> yeah
[07:19] <Jordan_U> Sllllloooooowwwww, but easy :)
[07:20] <phin> but i would recommend a debian install, even as far as going with an old version and just using the packages.  sometimes the speed of older versions of software is great then security shit for just general use
[07:20] <MugginsM> work's getting me an intel macbook soon so I'll just wait for that
[07:20] <MugginsM> I prefer PPC but it's just too much hassle nowadays getting stuff to run
[07:21] <Jordan_U> MugginsM, The macbooks run great, be sure to use the instructions @ http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Macbook
[07:22] <DanaG> Instead of Qemu, try Virtualbox.
[07:22] <DanaG> If there's an OS X host app.
[07:23] <MugginsM> a big part of the reason I bought it was so I could run Linux and still use Keynote
[07:23] <DanaG> MOL>
[07:23] <DanaG> ?
[07:23] <Jordan_U> Mac on linux
[07:23] <MugginsM> Mac-On-Linux, lets you run OSX in a vm
[07:23] <MugginsM> under Linux
[07:24] <Jordan_U> Only PPC
[07:24] <DanaG> I doubt I'll ever get an Apple PC.  I just don't like some stuff they do.
[07:25] <MugginsM> the only thing worse than an Apple laptop is pretty much every other laptop out there :)
[07:25] <DanaG> One button touchpad?  Ugh.  Line-out on microphone pin?  Can't use standard video card (for desktop)?
[07:25] <MugginsM> ah yeah, the one button thing is a killer
[07:25] <DanaG> Resize only from lower-right corner -- WTF?
[07:25] <DanaG> Even Windows bugs me in that way -- have to go to titlebar or border, not just alt-drag.
[07:25] <MugginsM> make nice Linux machines though
[07:25] <phin> thinkpads for the win
[07:26] <phin> although this 400$ dell i currently mostly use isnt bad
[07:26] <MugginsM> I'd be happier with PC laptops if it was easier to get them without paying MS
[07:26] <MugginsM> oops, hometime
[07:26] <DanaG> HP Business machines let you choose FreeDOS -- and subtract about $160 for it.
[07:26] <phin> DanaG: nice
[07:26] <DanaG> But..... most have ATI, not NVIDIA.
[07:26] <DanaG> Or they might have Intel.
[07:28] <DanaG> s/don't bother....../everybody else sucks/
[07:30] <budluva> is anyone aware of a pidgin/msn problem with file transfers? i get less than 1k/sec from a windows msn machine to a ubuntu pidgin machine, but im on my laptop now in xp and the transfer is well over 100k/sec
[07:31] <DanaG> UPnP issues, perhaps?
[07:32] <budluva> hrmm havent dug to far into it
[07:32] <budluva> could be
[07:32] <budluva> just wondering if it was a known issue first
[07:44] <Hobbsee> come on X.  please show where your error is.
[07:44] <Hobbsee> please build.
[07:46] <Jordan_U> I am seeing comments about bcm43xx in the changes for restricted manager, does that mean that the legal issues of distributing broadcom firmware has been worked out?
[07:48] <RAOF> I think it's now able to auto-run the bcmfirmware-cutter thingy.  I'm not sure how that relates to what you're asking, though, since we already have the firmware-cutter in the repository.
[07:49] <Jordan_U> RAOF, I am basically wondering if it install bcm43xx-fwcutter when it detects a broadcom card
[07:50] <RAOF> Dunno.  I just remember a discussion about having restricted-manager able to deal with fwcutter.
[08:06] <crimsun> packages using gtkmm2.4 and glademm2.4 libs will continue to be broken for a bit longer as we chug through some rebuilds
[08:12] <RAOF> Yay.
[08:13] <Amaranth> RAOF: it still needs the firmware
[08:13] <Amaranth> RAOF: it won't run the auto-download script
[08:13] <Amaranth> you give it a windows driver, it installs the firmware
[08:40] <DShepherd> will gutsy use grub2 or grub legacy?
[08:42] <crimsun> the latter.
[08:42] <crimsun> thus far, that is.
[08:42] <crimsun> grub2's still in universe, which precludes its use by default.
[08:43] <Amaranth> i think grub2 needs a couple more years
[08:43] <RAOF> No one wants an experimental bootloader :)
[12:41] <axxo> gl
[12:41] <Dannilion> thanks
[12:42] <Dannilion> If I don't have the broken kernal problems I had with feisty herd 1, I will be very happy :p
[12:42] <Dannilion> if I do, that's what live cd's are for :p
[12:44] <jussi01> :P
[12:44] <jussi01> Dannilion: I suggest you wait for trib 2 though, its only a few days away
[12:45] <Dannilion> I'm too inpatient :p
[12:45] <Dannilion> Also, I want things to fix
[12:45] <jussi01> hehe, ok
[12:46] <jussi01> Dannilion: although they will be looking for tribe 2 cd testers though..
[12:47] <Dannilion> I hope to have my laptop soon. I will test tribe 2 on that :)
[12:47] <jussi01> :9
[12:49] <Dannilion> am I the only person who keeps typing gusty instead of gutsy?
[12:50] <_4strO> yop yop
[01:00] <Ind[y] > So, when will compiz(-fusion) be the default Window Manager?
[01:06] <Pici> I think I saw something in a changelog saying that compiz was moving to be default...
[01:10] <Ind[y] > Pici: so, in the next release?
[01:10] <Ind[y] > in Gutsy compiz will be default?
[01:11] <Pici> Ind[y] : I'm trying to find where I saw it, but it was definitly in a changelog in gutsy.
[01:13] <Ind[y] > Pici: ok :-)
[01:13] <Ind[y] > Pici: If you find it, I would appreciate it if you could tell me.
[01:15] <Pici> Ind[y] : http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/g/gnome-session/gnome-session_2.19.4-0ubuntu2/changelog
[01:31] <Ind[y] > Pici: thx
[01:31] <Pici> no... problem.
[01:31] <Pici> Oh well.
[03:49] <shirish> Any grub2 experts out here?
[03:50] <shirish> Actually not even experts, anybody who has used grub2 for quite some time & is familiar with it
[03:50] <coNP> !ask
[03:50] <ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
[03:51] <shirish> CoNP: I am not able to see the new kernel even though have upgraded & done sudo update-grub in grub menu (grub2) actually
[03:54] <shirish> I have posted all the details in http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2916119 perhaps somebody can look at it and tell me if its something I have not done , otherwise why should it show only 1 kernel.
[04:03] <shirish> come on guys, somebody please tell me , is  this a bug or not or something I need to try to do ? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2916119
[04:03] <shirish> I updated grub2 info. if that will benefit somebody
[04:10] <jussi01> shirish: I actually have a similar problem, but on grub, I fixed it by doing a full grub config...
[04:11] <jussi01> ie. sudo grub, root (hd0,1), setup (hd,0) quit
[04:12] <shirish> jussi01: hmm..... , I dunno what the equivalent commands on grub 2 might be & would they respond the same way
[04:12] <jussi01> shirish: I imagine they will be the same, but you could always man grub2
[04:13] <shirish> jussi01: also why root(hd0,1),setup(hd,0) are different?
[04:13] <shirish> I mean the difference between hd0,1 and hd,0
[04:14] <jussi01> shirish: you are telling it the root partition, then telling it to search th whole hdd and set it up...
[04:14] <shirish> lol, there is no man for grub2
[04:14] <jussi01> heh...
[04:15] <gnomefreak> shirish: once installed there should be a man page for it
[04:15] <shirish> gnomefreak: exactly, there is not
[04:15] <shirish> now forums are off-line
[04:15] <jussi01> shirish: you sure you have the package name correct?
[04:15] <gnomefreak> shirish: than i wouldnt use it yet
[04:16] <shirish> jussi01: should it not be man grub2
[04:16] <gnomefreak> sometime after this meeting i will ask about it
[04:16] <shirish> I even tried grub & still no manual entry
[04:16] <shirish> gnomefreak: thanx :)
[04:16] <gnomefreak> shirish: try man grub2
[04:16] <shirish> I mean tried man grub & still no manual entry
[04:16] <gnomefreak> shirish: man grub has a man page
[04:17] <shirish> gnomefreak: tried both variations grub as well as grub2
[04:17] <shirish> gnomefreak: I had to remove grub , there is conflict between grub & grub2
[04:17] <gnomefreak> GRUB(8)                               FSF                              GRUB(8)
[04:17] <gnomefreak> NAME grub - the grub shell
[04:17] <shirish> I did this about a month back
[04:17] <shirish> ubotu paste
[04:17] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[04:18] <jussi01> heh, there is a debian bug... http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-grub-devel/2005-October/001136.html
[04:18] <gnomefreak> shirish: thats 2 lines
[04:18] <shirish> jussi01: thanx, atleast we know that there is no documentation.
[04:19] <shirish> jussi01: but that bug is almost 1 yr. some months old, cannot believe nobody has put any documentation for it till now
[04:20] <shirish> jussi01: no wonder people are not using grub2
[04:20] <jussi01> heh
[04:20] <shirish> make that the bug is 1 yr. 9 months old
[04:20] <jussi01> wow...
[04:22] <shirish> jussi01: here is the actual bug-report http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=333516
[04:22] <ubotu> Debian bug 333516 in grub2 "grub2: no man pages for grub-setup, grub-emu, grub-mkimage" [Normal,Open] 
[04:23] <shirish> ah nice, ubotu now understands debian bug reports :P
[04:25] <nerdygirl_ellie> Good Morning!  Is there any immediate reason I shouldn't start playing with Gutsy on my test boxes?  I.e. anything completely broken?
[04:26] <shirish> nerdygirl_ellie: not to my knowledge, everything is pretty cool, except for GRUB2 (but that is not in the default install) .
[04:27] <jussi01> nerdygirl_ellie: if you are going to use kubuntu its trashed because of an adept bug...
[04:27] <jussi01> shirish: bingo! http://grub.enbug.org/CommandList
[04:27] <shirish> jussi01: thanx, looking at it.
[04:28] <Hobbsee> jussi01: it's not anymore
[04:28] <Hobbsee> jussi01: knetworkmanager's a bit trashed, though
[04:28] <Hobbsee> atm
[04:28] <jussi01> Hobbsee: hooray!
[04:28] <jussi01> :D
[04:28] <jussi01> oh...
[04:29] <Hobbsee> jussi01: testing images "soon"
[04:29] <jussi01> soon... so about 3 weeks?
[04:30] <shirish> jussi01: can you make some post somewhere about doing sudo grub , root (hd0,1), setup (hd,0) & quit, the procedure you followed
[04:30] <jussi01> shirish: why? its on the forums like 20 times...
[04:30] <shirish> jussi01: the reason is I will be doing this the first time & root has been replaced by something else in grub 2
[04:30] <Hobbsee> jussi01: nah.   depends how long the network mangler fixes take to get in.  should be a amtter of hours
[04:31] <jussi01> Hobbsee: hooray!! let me know if you are still up/up again when it happens :D
[04:31] <shirish> jussi01: ok, in that case any idea what should I be using as a keyword to find posts on this , just GRUB install or something else?
[04:32] <jussi01> !grub
[04:32] <Hobbsee> jussi01: will do
[04:32] <ubotu> grub is the default Ubuntu boot manager. Lost grub after installing windows: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows - Making GRUB floppies & other GRUB howtos: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto
[04:32] <jussi01> Hobbsee: thanks :D
[04:33] <jussi01> shirish: that first link has it all
[04:35] <nerdygirl_ellie> Thanks!  The feedback I have from my former windows users on feisty has been good, but we really need to wrap a GUI around the every-30-remount fsck.
[04:35] <nerdygirl_ellie> There is a target for this in Gutsy, but it's not explicit.
[04:36] <jussi01> nerdygirl_ellie: well get to work then :P
[04:38] <wfarr> Hobbsee, "network mangler" haha
[04:39] <Hobbsee> wfarr: :)
[04:39] <Hobbsee> nerdygirl_ellie: i believe that's planned.
[04:40] <wfarr> I'm hoping that newest NM will let the rt73usb connect finally
[04:41] <jussi01> Hobbsee: do you know if it is planned to fix the simultaneous connections bu on NM?
[04:42] <Hobbsee> jussi01: for tribe 2?  i doubt it
[04:42] <Hobbsee> jussi01: upstream gnome might at some point - no idea.
[04:42] <jussi01> Hobbsee: for gutsy....
[04:42] <Hobbsee> jussi01: then see the second answer
[04:42] <jussi01> sad...
[04:46] <Hobbsee> jussi01: as in, canonical people dont tend to work on network manager, nor do ubuntu people, so i dont know.
[04:46] <jussi01> Hobbsee: ahhhh...
[04:48] <elkbuntu> so, harrass gnome and see if you get the linus treatment ;)
[04:48] <coNP> :D
[04:49] <shirish> elkbuntu: nice
[04:49] <Hobbsee> yay, killed 8 bugs.
[04:50] <wfarr> and they're back
[04:50] <jussi01> Hobbsee: NICE work!!
[04:50] <wfarr> so what's this new feature? >_>
[04:50] <jussi01> wfarr: new feature?
[04:50] <wfarr> yeah
[04:51] <wfarr> Ubuntu Forums were offline for adding some new feature or other
[04:51] <Hobbsee> jussi01: :)
[04:52] <jussi01> Hobbsee: is that smile about this: https://isotesting.stgraber.org/
[04:52] <jussi01> ??
[04:52] <Hobbsee> jussi01: no, it's about [00:50]  <jussi01> Hobbsee: NICE work!!
[04:52] <jussi01> oh... :D
[04:52] <jussi01> gnomefreak: are you involved with NM at all?
[04:53] <gnomefreak> no thank god but itsw being fixed as we speak
[04:53] <gnomefreak> -w
[04:53] <Pici> Which? What?
[04:53] <coNP> new nm upload in gutsy some minutes ago
[04:53] <coNP> I guess gnomefreak thought of that
[04:53] <coNP> wrong guess?
[04:54] <gnomefreak> coNP: the last bit to fix is a depend issue afaik
[04:54] <jussi01> gnomefreak: I was wondering about when they would fix the simultaneous connections problem...
[04:54] <gnomefreak> jussi01: new upload will fix it
[04:54] <jussi01> gnomefreak: excelent!!!
[04:54] <jussi01> :D
[04:54] <gnomefreak> bbs
[04:55] <shirish> guys are you guys able to post in the forums?
[04:55] <coNP> I guess everyone can post in the forums
[04:55] <Hobbsee> shirish: btw, there's an #ubuntuforums irc channel too
[04:56] <Pici> Hobbsee: I know, I dont have enough time to do both
[04:56] <shirish> Hobbsee: yes, know
[04:56] <shirish> I know
[04:56] <coNP> shirish: look out, you should greet them with <html>!
[04:56] <shirish> lemme see if i have still trouble then will trouble the gorums guys
[04:57] <shirish> coNP: wish I knew <html>! in detail :P
[05:48] <shirish> guys have updated the thread with as much as info. as possible in http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2916450
[05:48] <shirish> anybody has any ideas what could be wrong, its the new kernel not showing in grub menu, they are welcome to do add to it.
[05:59] <budluva_> is kde4 in the repos as of now or is it going to be for
[05:59] <budluva_> +1
[06:00] <askand> will compiz-fusion be default in gutsy?
[06:00] <budluva_> +1 will ship with 3.5 but will 4 be available
[06:00] <budluva_> askand, yes it is
[06:03] <askand> budluva_: so I will get compiz-fusion with just one click in gutsy?
[06:04] <shirish> askand: should be , right now it needs a workaround.
[06:04] <shirish> but that is if you have compiz as in tribe 1. tribe 2 should have compiz-fusion by default perhaps
[06:14] <Pici> There was something in the gnome-session changelog the other day that said that it was changing the default window manager to compiz.  I dont have any other details than that though.
[06:18] <Hobbsee> budluva_: that's hte plan @ kde, yes.
[06:19] <budluva_> so is kde4 in the repos now for the beta? or do we wait until gutsy release for kde4 to be in the repos?
[06:22] <Pici> budluva_: I see a whole bunch of kde4 packages in the gutsy repos, but I'm a gnome user and I'm not sure whats what.
[06:22] <Toma-> its all alpha stuff
[06:23] <Toma-> kde4 backends and friends. the good stuff is still to come and may be released during gutsy's life so its all there to support it, afaik
[06:26] <budluva_> has plasma been implemented yet?
[06:28] <Tm_T> yes, partly
[06:30] <budluva_> hrmm
[06:30] <budluva_> cool
[06:30] <Tm_T> Kool!
[06:30] <budluva_> waiting for kde4, i've been a gnome fan for all my linux endevours, kde4 might be when i switch :P
[06:31] <budluva_> but probably not :P
[06:36] <askand> budluva_:  whats plasma?
[06:38] <Tm_T> !plasma
[06:38] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about plasma - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[06:38] <Tm_T> !kde4
[06:38] <ubotu> For information on KDE 4 (not to be released for quite some time yet), see: http://www.canllaith.org/svn-features/kde4.html. Also worth checking are: appeal/phonon/plasma/solid.kde.org
[07:20] <coNP> inkscape is br0ken :(
[07:20] <Pici> is it? /me checks
[07:22] <coNP> Pici: it is
[07:22] <Hobbsee> coNP: fix it :)
[07:22] <coNP> bug 122299
[07:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 122299 in inkscape "[gutsy]  inkscape doesn't start, doesn't invoke apport" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122299
[07:24] <Pici> undefined symbol..
[07:24] <coNP> Pici: sure see my pbuilder log
[07:26] <Pici> coNP: I'm looking now.  Nothing I'll be able to do about it but whatever.
[07:26] <Pici> hmm
[07:30] <gnomefreak> coNP: you know apport is not set up to show dialog yet
[07:30] <coNP> gnomefreak: the problem is not with apport, but with gtkmm vs. inkscaspe
[07:30] <coNP> inkscape
[07:30] <gnomefreak>  doesn't start, doesn't invoke apport"
[07:31] <coNP> okay I'll edit description
[07:31] <gnomefreak> part of bug i was referring to
[07:31] <Pici> I admit, the title is a bit misleading
[07:31] <coNP> apport is not interesting for me :)
[07:31] <gnomefreak> it works just doesnt show dialog yet
[07:32] <gnomefreak> he should still have a /var/crash file if crashed
[07:33] <Pici> I dont see one..
[07:33] <gnomefreak> who tried building it?
[07:35] <Pici> coNP did.  Does it not log a crash report if its running a binary? Excuse my ignorance, trying to learn as I go.
[07:35] <gnomefreak> this looks like a gcc problem, i would have to look at debian bug again but i wasnt having teh bug in ubuntu :(
[07:35] <coNP> gnomefreak: seems a glibmm/gtkmm and not a gcc problem for me
[07:36] <gnomefreak> /usr/lib/gcc/i486-linux-gnu  same error that iceape gives when built on debian
[07:36] <lucasvo> I tried out compiz on my thinkpad and it has a couple of problems
[07:36] <lucasvo> I think I can describe the problem best if I can paste a screenshot somewhere
[07:36] <coNP> gnomefreak: read to the end, it ends with "libgtkmm-2.4.so" :)
[07:37] <lucasvo> where can I paste screenshot?
[07:38] <gnomefreak> coNP: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/inkscape/+bug/122299/comments/4  where do you see that
[07:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 122299 in inkscape "[gutsy]  inkscape doesn't start" [Medium,Confirmed] 
[07:38] <gnomefreak> coNP: parts you pasted to bug diesnt show that
[07:38] <gnomefreak> doesnt
[07:39] <gnomefreak> libgtkmm-2.4.so
[07:39] <gnomefreak> nvm i see it
[07:39] <coNP> libinkpre.a(event-log.o): In function `TreeModelColumn':
[07:39] <coNP> /usr/include/gtkmm-2.4/gtkmm/treemodelcolumn.h:140: undefined reference to `Gtk::TreeModelColumnBase::TreeModelColumnBase(unsigned long)'
[07:39] <coNP> okay, no more paste :)
[07:39] <coNP> it is a nice API change
[07:39] <coNP> just before tribe2
[07:39] <coNP> not very nice, I have to say...
[07:40] <gnomefreak> coNP: is this same version in unstable?
[07:41] <gnomefreak> and does it build on debian
[07:41] <gnomefreak> i do
[07:41] <gnomefreak> 0.45.1-1 is version right?
[07:42] <coNP> we have gtkmm_1.2.10-8ubuntu1 and inkscape_0.45.1-1ubuntu3
[07:42] <coNP> what is gtkmm in sid?
[07:42] <gnomefreak> its not
[07:42] <gnomefreak> not unless its a different name
[07:43] <coNP> sorry, it is gtkmm2.0
[07:43] <gnomefreak> 1.2.10-8
[07:43] <gnomefreak> libgtkmm-dev
[07:43] <coNP> so what we need is gtkmm2.0, what is 2.2.12-2ubuntu1 in gutsy
[07:43] <gnomefreak> there is no gtkmm in sid
[07:43] <coNP> (gtkmm is still gtk1)
[07:44] <coNP> and gtkmm2.0?
[07:44] <gnomefreak> http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/590587
[07:45] <gnomefreak> thats from apt-cache search gtkmm in sid
[07:45] <RainCT> Hi
[07:45] <coNP> gnomefreak: can you please tell what "apt-cache showsrc gtkmm2.0" says?
[07:46] <gnomefreak> Package: gtkmm2.0
[07:46] <gnomefreak> Binary: libgtkmm2.0-1c2a, libgtkmm2.0-doc, libgtkmm2.0-dev
[07:46] <RainCT> is it possible to download any newer CD than tribe 1 (daily builds or something)?
[07:46] <gnomefreak> coNP: building on a package not the binary?
[07:48] <gnomefreak> coNP: if glib is still messed up that could be the cause of the failure
[07:48] <coNP> oh it is rebuilt since
[07:48] <gnomefreak> glib?
[07:49] <gnomefreak> lets see :)
[07:49] <coNP> gnomefreak: it seems to be already taken care of
[07:49] <gnomefreak> yep its been fixed
[07:51] <gnomefreak> coNP: did you try to rplace libgtkmm-2.4-dev with libgtkmm2.0-dev see if it builds?
[07:51] <coNP> oh you might be right, I should get gtkmm2.4 instead
[07:51] <coNP> thanks gnomefreak
[07:51] <gnomefreak> yw
[07:54] <gnomefreak> coNP: it seems sid depends on all of them
[07:54] <coNP> I bet it will solve this issue
[07:55] <gnomefreak> what were you building it against?
[07:55] <gnomefreak> btw apport gets enabled in tribe 2 :)
[07:55] <coNP> libgtkm-2.4-dev <not the latest ubuntu>
[07:57] <gnomefreak> running it as well while im gone
[08:36] <coNP> how can I free the fish?
[08:36] <coNP> I mean kill the freed fish?
[08:44] <freepenguin> hello everybody
[08:49] <Pici`> Well this is odd.  apport keeps alerting me that totem is crashing... except I'm not using totem.
[08:49] <Pici`> ooh...
[08:49] <Anton99> hi people if i'm downloading Ubuntu 7.10, all time fails md5-summing... wtf? i'm downloading it with KGet
[08:52] <Pici`> Looks like its grabbing everything in /var/crash/ since the last time it was cleared.
[08:58] <Tm_T> Pici: where he is?
[09:04] <Pici> Tm_T: Where what is?
[09:11] <Pici> Did http://archive.canonical.com gutsy-commercial stop working for anyone besides me? Or has it never worked and this is the first time I'm noticing it?
[09:13] <DanaG> There is no gutsy-commercial.
[09:13] <DanaG> http://archive.canonical.com/dists/
[09:19] <Pici> DanaG: Yes. I know.
[10:03] <PriceChild> *gets fed up with lack of working rt2500 in gutsy and goes in search of what's not working*
[10:03] <jussi01> nice work PriceChild
[10:05] <PriceChild> jussi01, have you got one?
[10:05] <jussi01> PriceChild: thankfully no... :D
[10:05] <PriceChild> hehe they're not that bad :P
[10:05] <PriceChild> They "work".
[10:06] <wfarr> I've got rt73usb
[10:06] <wfarr> which is a mess in its own right
[10:06] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: did you read teh topic in -kernel?
[10:07] <wfarr> I'm _still_ using the Legacy rt73 stuff because, contrary to the other lucky folks, rt73usb only selectively hates my device and not theirs -_-
[10:07] <PriceChild> gnomefreak, hmm?
[10:07] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: Latest news: -rt and -xen kernels removed,
[10:07] <PriceChild> gnomefreak, realtime and xen... why? :S
[10:07] <gnomefreak> thats why rt2500 is borked
[10:07] <PriceChild> no...
[10:07] <wfarr> ...
[10:07] <PriceChild> that's not rt2x00 drivers
[10:07] <wfarr> indeed
[10:07] <gnomefreak> oh real time
[10:07] <gnomefreak> nvm
[10:07] <PriceChild> hehe thanks anyway :)
[10:08] <PriceChild> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22/+bug/118205 is activish... but is about rt61... lots about rt2500 thuogh
[10:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118205 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22 "Gutsy kernel 2.6.22-5-generic missing rt61 module" [High,Incomplete] 
[10:08] <wfarr> PriceChild, if you're feeling adventurous, I'd totally dig (working) rt73usb in Gutsy
[10:08] <wfarr> >_>
[10:08] <wfarr> =P
[10:08] <PriceChild> wfarr, dude I'm never gonna be able to do anything like that :P
[10:09] <PriceChild> I'm struggling to get a package into universe.
[10:09] <wfarr> hahaha
[10:09] <PriceChild> Just got gizmod rejected from the NEW queue :( Will fix that this week and resubmit it :D
[10:09] <wfarr> it's frustrating as hell - I was excited that current kernel can actually build the rt2x00 stuff without patching
[10:09] <wfarr> and while it all builds, rt73usb driver selectively hates my device :x
[10:10] <PriceChild> *wonders whether to build the rt stuff himself just for the new kernel*
[10:10] <wfarr> rt2x00 uses the new wireless stack in 2.6.22, so you could build it
[10:10] <wfarr> they've got a CVS snapshot that seems to work for some folks
[10:13] <compengi> with what data base program can i open .dbs files if openoffice doesn't open them?
[10:21] <DanaG> http://www.XLhost.de is not a valid address.  What a way to get traffic -- spam people with invalid characters.
[10:21] <DanaG>  <[10:40] <KjetilK_> when I search for it using http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=iwlwifi&searchmode=searchword&case=insensitive&version=gutsy&arch=i386
[10:41] <KjetilK_> it seems only the microcode is in there
[10:41] <KjetilK_> many more hits with the same query against feisty
[11:04] <crimsun> kinda difficult to guess.
[11:04] <crimsun> Can you describe what SL uses as its sound API?
[11:04] <crimsun> additionally what sound hardware you have?
[11:04] <Dannilion> it was broken with ALSA
[11:05] <Dannilion> CMedia sound card, or a generic usb soundcard (that I can't remember what it was)
[11:06] <Dannilion> I will try with the next update, which I'm currently downloading
[11:06] <crimsun> there is an integrated C-Media audio device that appears as a USB audio one.
[11:06] <gnomefreak> crimsun: ty for the responce on the notification
[11:07] <crimsun> gnomefreak: I've also pointed you to the relevant alsa-lib bug.  It's too late to address for Tribe 2, but I'll pour the resources I can into making it more friendly for Tribe 3.
[11:07] <Dannilion> I have two soundcards, both have problems. The built in c-media one, and a usb one
[11:07] <gnomefreak> crimsun: yes i saw it thank you
[11:07] <Dannilion> I really should get a decent soundcard. Any suggestions?
[11:08] <crimsun> DanaG: I'll punt pa* tonight now that libgtkmm2.4 et al. are rebuilt correctly.
[11:08] <crimsun> DanaG: can you describe what "problems" these are, or better yet, point to bugs you've filed using Launchpad?
[11:08] <crimsun> sorry, not DanaG
[11:08] <crimsun> Dannilion: can you describe what "problems" these are, or better yet, point to bugs you've filed using Launchpad?
[11:09] <Dannilion> I've not yet, as I think it's a Second Life problem
[11:10] <Dannilion> but Second Life freezes on login, and looking at it in Konsole says it's ALSA causing it. Telling it not to use ALSA means it works
[11:10] <DanaG> aah, incorrect tab-complete.
[11:11] <crimsun> Dannilion: please file a bug and assign it to me.
[11:11] <Dannilion> okay
[11:11] <crimsun> the proper source package is alsa-lib
[11:11] <Dannilion> okay
[11:11] <crimsun> alternately, you can assign it to ubuntu-audio, but it doesn't matter.  I end up doing all the work regardless.
[11:11] <Dannilion> :)
[11:12] <Dannilion> (of course, the problem only occurs about 3/4 times :p
[11:15] <Dannilion> typical, it's working now
[11:50] <jussi01> is tribe 2 out yet?
[12:03] <gnomefreak> jussi01: no later this week
[12:03] <gnomefreak> topic will have it in it
[12:04] <jussi01> ok
[12:10] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: are you still here for a question or 3?
[12:11] <PriceChild> yeah sure
[12:11] <PriceChild> btw compiz fusion is aceness
[12:11] <gnomefreak> is compiz enabled in gutsy by default?
[12:11] <wfarr> gnomefreak, they're shooting for Tribe 2, yeah
[12:12] <wfarr> some things, like Compiz by default session, are currently working for folks who can support it
[12:12] <crimsun> by default?  Only for Intel-based ones AFAIK.
[12:12] <gnomefreak> wfarr: well that would explain why its crashing
[12:12] <gnomefreak> hint i didnt enable it and its crashing
[12:12] <wfarr> gnomefreak, there have been some session issues as part of the wrapper
[12:12] <wfarr> like, I have to initiate a login, wait about 20 secs, then restart GDM from tty1
[12:13] <wfarr> and then I can login properly
[12:13] <crimsun> gnomefreak: Intel-based video?
[12:13] <gnomefreak> crimsun: nvidia
[12:13] <crimsun> hmm.
[12:13] <crimsun> n/m then.
[12:13] <wfarr> gnomefreak, official or nv drivers?
[12:13] <gnomefreak> official
[12:14] <wfarr> afaik, you could probably run 1-2 commands that should enable the right stuff for Compiz to run, so you could login and disable it
[12:14] <wfarr> not sure what they are though
[12:14] <wfarr> I'm Radeon user
[12:14] <gnomefreak> wfarr: oh i can disable it but i need to know if its on by default
[12:14] <wfarr> it is as of current updates, yes
[12:15] <wfarr> mvo and Amaranth are working hard on it =)
[12:23] <gnomefreak> wfarr: they said the crashing was fixed with the packages released about 15 minutes ago
[12:23] <wfarr> it likely is ;)
[12:23] <gnomefreak> lets see if freezing stopped
[12:23] <wfarr> I've not rebooted since
[12:23] <wfarr> sure - I'll reboot
[12:26] <wfarr> gnomefreak, yeah they fix the login bug for me