/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/06/28/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Jun 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 11:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
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jgamiohi does the xubuntu meeting finshed ?02:39
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highvoltage@schedule EDT08:35
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evand@schedule New_York03:06
ubotuSchedule for America/New_York: 28 Jun 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 07:00: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 04 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 11:00: Kernel Team03:06
Hobbsee@schedule sydney03:07
ubotuSchedule for Australia/Sydney: 29 Jun 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 29 Jun 21:00: MOTU Team | 04 Jul 05:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 06:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 06:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 11 Jul 01:00: Kernel Team03:07
Hobbseehi evand03:07
Hobbsee2 hours.  hmmm.03:07
Mithrandir*sigh*; I was sure it was later today.03:08
evandgood whateveritisdownthere Hobbsee03:08
HobbseeMithrandir: awww03:09
Hobbseeevand: evening.  it's 11pm03:09
evandah, good evening then03:09
=== Hobbsee also seems to live on european time, so...
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Jun 11:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
mdzgood day, all04:51
fabbionehello04:52
seb128hey mdz04:52
evandhi04:52
pittipong04:52
BenCmdz: hey04:52
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bdmurrayhullo04:52
ograwhoops ...04:53
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kylemer, early04:53
calchello04:53
BenCkylem, rtg_: ping04:53
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kylemslow.04:54
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rtg_I'm here.04:54
henohello04:54
BenCcool, kernel team accounted for04:54
rtg_BenC: Is your clock fast?04:54
BenCI've got that amd64 fast clock bug in my brain today04:55
dholbachhiya04:55
shawarmao/ Hi all04:56
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cjwatsonhi all04:57
dendrobateshey y'all :-D04:57
mdzmathiaz,kees: ping04:57
mathiazmathiaz: pong04:58
=== mvo waves
mdzmathiaz: oh, hi04:58
cjwatsondoko is excused due to a rehearsal04:58
cjwatsoneveryone else on my team here04:58
mathiazhi all04:58
kylemi'm actually here, despite the agenda.04:58
dendrobatesmathiaz: in France?04:58
mathiazdendrobates: yes04:58
cjwatsonyes, the calendar is mistaken about kyle's travel plans04:59
mathiazdendrobates: seems that they have internet connection in this country04:59
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kylemcjwatson, "travel" heh, it's like 15 minutes that-way.04:59
kylem;-)04:59
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mdzanyone seen Keybuk recently?05:00
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stgraberhello05:00
pittimdz: summoning powers :)05:00
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kylemKeybuk, got your mail sorted?05:01
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kwwiihi05:01
mdzok, let's get started05:02
=== Mithrandir has the problem of having his mail all too sorted.. it makes IMAP slow.
mdzit's good to see everyone!  feels like a long time05:02
Keybukkylem: nope, nowhere near05:02
kylemKeybuk, bummer.05:02
mdzI was traveling and then on holiday, glad to be back though05:02
mdztoday's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting2007062805:03
mdzit looks like no agenda items were submitted in summary activity this week05:03
kylemi think shawarma has one. heh.05:03
shawarmaYeah.05:03
mdzI guess that means no one has any problems at all! ;-)05:03
Riddellhi05:03
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shawarmaWe're getting more and more requests for updated Dapper install CD's since a lot of new, fancy SCSI and RAID controllers aren't support.05:04
mdzI echo pitti's hearty appreciation for the efforts which went into tribe 205:04
cjwatsonshawarma: coincidentally ... ;-)05:04
=== mvo hugs pitti
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=== pitti hugs the team
=== seb128 hugs pitti
=== dholbach hugs pitti
=== keescook hugs pitti
=== kylem high fives pitti
pittiwow05:04
=== pitti bounces
=== shawarma hugs pitti, too.
mdzshawarma: Ubuntu 6.06.2 is under discussion right now05:04
keescookhug-powered!05:04
mdzshawarma: tentative target is August05:05
shawarmamdz: Oh, really? Where do I join the fun?05:05
cjwatsonprobably late Aug05:05
Hobbseeyay pitti!05:05
agoliveiraI've helped a bit and could follow closelly the huge effort as well! Well done!05:05
=== ogra hugs pitti as well
=== Hobbsee hugs pitti
=== evand hugs pitti
=== shawarma hugs mvo for sorting out that scary apt bug. Eek.
=== Keybuk hugs everyone
cjwatsonthe main thing to do for 6.06.2 is to identify what should go into it05:05
fabbionei did propose to have a session at UDS to discuss exactly this problem05:06
cjwatsonwe've been circulating a couple of ideas but have only *just* got started05:06
BenCmaybe we should create a linux-backports-modules-2.6.15 for dapper05:06
fabbionebut the session was never scheduled05:06
mdzwhat we likely want is a list of targeted bugs05:06
shawarmaWhere has this discussio been going on? (i.e. which mailing list have I failed to subscribe to?)05:07
mdzshawarma: no, a very preliminary discussion just began with a few people via private mail05:07
BenCCould the server team come up with a list of network and storage drivers with bug numbers?05:07
asacwill 6.06.2 be a release update ... or a new branch that will coexist?05:07
cjwatsonasac: the former05:07
mdzto collect input on how the process will work05:07
kylemBenC, the problem primarily is how to re-qualify the release.05:07
kylembackporting subsystems is *guaranteed* to break working configs.05:08
cjwatsonwe definitely need to bear in mind support for people upgrading dapper05:08
BenCI don't want to backport subsystems for sure :)05:08
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cjwatsonadding hardware support in stable releases has been a thorny topic in the past, to say the very least05:08
BenCnetwork controllers are pretty easy, and scsi is not bad...sata will likely be a no-go though05:08
pittiwe already had that discussion on the ML, and the basic outcome was that it was too crazy/too much work/not doable at all, right?05:08
mdzkylem: we'll consider the needs on a case-by-case basis, and determine what needs to be done05:08
mdzkylem: things which are too risky for the benefit they provide will have to be put aside05:09
cjwatsonI don't think we can promise to support everyone's new+shiny hardware in 6.06205:09
mdzas always for SRUs05:09
amitkGreg K-H wrote abot this very thing the other day: http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/enterprise_kernel_future.html05:09
BenCyeah, I read that05:09
kylemamitk, yeah, greg, arjan and i talked a bit about this at the LF summit05:09
BenCpretty much describes the problems we have, like any distro05:09
agoliveiraSRUs?05:09
pittiBenC: linux-backports-modules-2.6.15 sounds much better wrt. breaking existing setups; that will limit the type of drivers which can be backported at all, right?05:09
dholbachagoliveira: stable release updates05:10
BenCnot much help in that document though :)05:10
kylemthis was a big session with vendors at LF.05:10
agoliveiraThanks05:10
mdzBenC: yeah, only his solution fails to mention the 'con' of 'new upstream kernels are full of regressions'05:10
shawarmacjwatson: I'm just afraid we'll lose ground due to lacking hardware support in our LTS's.05:10
shawarmaThe alternative is more frequent LTS's, but that brings in entirely different issues.05:10
pitticjwatson: and TBH we should never even publicly announce this as a goal05:10
kylemmdz, did you catch that session?05:10
mdzkylem: no, I'm afraid not05:10
kylemmdz, yeah, i think it was friday afternoon.05:10
kylembasically it was vendor versus distro bitchfest 200705:10
BenCpitti: yeah, limits it to just drivers, no subsystems, unless we get frisky too drop new subsystem replacements in updates/, which is probably bad :)05:11
agoliveirakylem: very well put :-D05:11
kylemgreg summarizes it pretty well in that blog entry though.05:11
mdzso, to come back to 6.06.205:11
mdzthe answer is, stay tuned, we'll begin the process soon05:11
pittiBenC: agreed; so we can backport drivers which don't depend so heavily on big and/or changing kernel ABIs; if that covers wifis and graphics drivers (nvidia/fglrx), that's already something05:11
mdzI want to take advantage of this cycle to formalize the process a bit more and get it documented05:12
kylemwifi is one of the biggest problems.05:12
BenCmdz: for kernel side, I propose a linux-backports-modules-2.6.15, with appropriate meta packages...anything beyond that is too much work/testing for an Aug release05:12
mdzBenC: that unfortunately doesn't solve the problem, which is that people can't install05:12
BenCmdz: make that package default on the CD?05:12
mdzs/the/an important/05:12
fabbionewe will need appropriate changes to the installer to05:12
cjwatsonBenC: then for 6.06.3 we'd need a linux-backports-backports-modules-2.6.1505:12
BenCjust need to seed it and include it05:12
cjwatsonfor the stuff that breaks people using the previous set of backports05:13
mdzBenC: we're not going to spec out a technical solution here; it is a big hairy mess05:13
BenCcjwatson: why? Just update the same package?05:13
cjwatsonfor the same reason we don't install l-b-m by default in the first place05:13
shawarmacjwatson: which was.. ?05:13
shawarmacjwatson: fear of breaking stuff that already works?05:13
cjwatsonwe plan to put stuff in it that may well break people's working setups05:13
shawarmaRight.05:13
shawarmahrm..05:14
cjwatsonthe entire reason to put something in l-b-m is that it shouldn't go in a regular kernel update05:14
BenCif we fear it that much, then we are saying we can't do it at all for .02?05:14
mdzplease, guys05:14
pittishawarma: a module could then be autoloaded in favor of another one which was used before05:14
mdzthis is not the time to argue technical details05:14
BenCok05:14
=== kylem hands mdz a gavel.
mdzI will circulate a plan and ask for comments on it05:14
shawarmapitti: Sure.05:14
mdzand we'll take it from there05:14
shawarma\o/05:14
cjwatsondone05:15
mdzare Canonical folks all sorted for the sprint?05:15
cjwatsonoh, I still need to book the train travel05:15
agoliveiraYep05:15
fabbioneyeo05:15
cjwatson(all 15 of it)05:15
dendrobatesmdz: yep05:15
Riddelldo we have a page to put agenda items?05:15
shawarmaYup.05:15
keescookmdz: yup05:15
calcyes05:15
Riddell(I can't think of any just now but if it do)05:16
=== mvo raises his hand
iwjcjwatson: It's no cheaper to book if I'm not mistaken.05:16
asacyes05:16
kylemcjwatson, get keybuk to fly you in? :)05:16
shawarmaRiddell: It's on the sprint page on the wiki.05:16
Keybukkylem: unlikely with the current UK weather :-/05:16
KeybukI can't fly above clouds05:16
cjwatsoniwj: it would get clan off my back ;-)05:16
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asacagoliveira: dito :)05:16
pittilooking forward to it05:16
fabbionewhat's the name of the hotel btw?05:16
mdzok, good05:16
iwjpitti: The snoring ?05:16
agoliveiraasac: You're screwed :-D05:16
Keybukfabbione: Rochester Grand iirc05:17
=== kylem can say adilson doesn't snore.
Keybukit's a nice little place05:17
BenCmdz: how should I coordinate setting aside time for canonica-qa/kernel-team and such?05:17
pittiiwj: absolutely :) seb128 doesn't snore fortunately05:17
fabbioneKeybuk: ok, there are directions but no name :)05:17
KeybukRochester Grange, sorry05:17
mdzheno: do you want to raise any questions here regarding workflow for bugs, especially escalations?05:17
shawarmaRiddell: Beneath the list of people.05:17
mdzBenC: GMTA05:17
Keybukhttp://www.grangehotels.com/grange_rochester_hotel/index.htm05:17
fabbioneKeybuk: thanks05:17
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Riddellshawarma: oh yes05:17
henomdz: no I think I'll do that in individual conversations, thanks05:18
Keybuk(at least, I'm assuming that's where we are -- claire hasn't actually confirmed yet)05:18
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mdzok05:18
=== iwj edits the wiki.
pittithanks for that, I'll need it for directions from Gatwick05:18
iwjOh, no, cjwatson got there first.05:18
Keybukpitti: I've already added directions from all major airports to the wiki ;)05:18
fabbioneKeybuk: directions looks like KK, but there are a bunch of hotels there..05:18
pittiKeybuk: ah, sweet05:18
amitkmdz: has Intel confirmed that they will be sending people?05:18
mdzamitk: yes05:18
amitkbenc: in that case we need to schedule some time with them as well?05:19
agoliveiraamit:At least for 2 or 3 days there'll be some of them with us.05:19
mdzamitk: add it to the wiki page just to keep it on the radar05:19
BenCamitk: yep05:19
shawarmaI have an e-mail where it says PArk Plaza Riverside?05:20
mdzthere will be plenty of UME work to be done in any caes05:20
mdzcase05:20
mdzKeybuk: no, it's a different hotel05:20
mdzclan will update the wiki page05:20
Keybukmdz: yeah, I just asked and found that out :p05:20
=== agoliveira feels a a chilly wind now...
Keybukthe map on the wiki says the rochester, which is what confused me05:20
mdzthat's the general "office and stuff nearby" map05:21
dendrobatesshawarma: me too, is the server team in a different hotel?05:21
=== keescook imagines himself wandering London, looking for his hotel
mdzshawarma: same05:21
agoliveiraBTW, is this hotel far from the office? Can we go by foot?05:21
kylemre: sprint; is the heathrow express worth the 15GBP?05:21
mdzdendrobates: everyone is in the park plaza riverside as far as I'm aware05:21
shawarmadendrobates: That would be rather silly. :)05:21
Keybukkylem: no, takes you to the wrong train station05:21
fabbionekylem: no, subway > *05:21
Keybukkylem: paddington is an arse to get anywhere from05:21
cjwatsonI'm just checking into the details but I doubt the Stansted Express is worth it either05:22
agoliveirafabbione: tube ;)05:22
kylemKeybuk, yeah but i want to take a picture of the bear statue :P05:22
=== kylem remembers being read paddington bear stories as a child
iwjcjwatson: Err, the Stansted Express and the Gatwick Express are much more sensible.  They're basically mostly normal trains.05:22
calcurl/address for PPR?05:22
KeybukGatwick Express is utterly non-sensible05:22
Keybukit's twice as much as the ordinary train, and almost identical times to the same station05:22
Keybukand isn't any nicer05:23
mdzinquiries regarding the sprint should be directed first to the wiki, and then to clan (with a wiki update for any new information obtained via the latter)05:23
cjwatsoniwj: hmm, ok. seems to take you into Liverpool Street though which probably isn't ideal05:23
mdzit looks a little out of date, but that should be fixed soon05:23
iwjcjwatson: Oh, yes.05:24
mdzhttps://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+specs shows a lot of unknown statuses05:24
mdzplease remember to update LP with your progress, so as not to give the impression of falling behind05:25
MithrandirI'll nag the Intel guys to do so for their specs too05:25
Mithrandir(for mobile)05:25
mdzthanks05:25
pittimdz: what status to give to an informational spec like bzr-best-practices? (this is cuurently 'unknown')05:25
agoliveiraThey have being working on them latelly.05:26
agoliveiraI mean, the Intel guys.05:26
Mithrandiragoliveira: oh, sure, they just need to update the status of the spec.05:26
mdzpitti: for an informational spec, it should be the progress of the writeup.  if it's published and appropriately linked, it's implemented05:26
pittimdz: alright, thanks05:26
Mithrandiragoliveira: I'm not unhappy with their progress, just with not knowing the status.05:26
agoliveiraMithrandir: Righto05:26
mdzare there any questions or issues with spec progress or reporting?05:27
mdzfeature freeze is 16 August05:28
MithrandirMobile are behind on writeups, but I'm prodding people to have them ready, hopefully this week.05:28
Keybuk(suggests a 1 minute panic'd silence :p)05:28
mdzright, mobile got a late start for reasons beyond our control, and is playing catch-up05:28
mdzserver projects were also off to a late start, but the team is working steadily as well (thanks!)05:29
shawarma\o/05:29
shawarmaGo us!05:30
shawarma:)05:30
iwjI can't seem to find this mail about the sprint hotel address.05:30
=== dholbach hugs shawarma, dendrobates, mathiaz and keescook :)
shawarmaiwj: I got it early because I've got sprint next week, too.05:30
Keybukiwj: there isn't a mail yet05:30
mdziwj: clan is on it, don't worry05:30
agoliveirashawarma: That's self confidence!05:30
shawarmaiwj: Server sprint, that is.05:30
agoliveira;)05:30
iwjOh, OK, that's fine then.  Just so long as it hadn't got lost ...05:30
=== Keybuk hands iwj his crystal ball ... there it is
mdzok, is there any other business for the meeting?05:31
mdzis there anything deeply buried in my inbox I should be aware of?05:31
mdz(I'm almost caught up, actually)05:31
ogradoes anyone know whats up with -changes ?05:31
mdznot quite, but the appropriate LP folks have been informed and are working on it05:32
fabbioneit works?05:32
ograit seems to flip/flop between Changed By ad MAintaianer adresses at the moment05:32
mdzogra: known issue05:32
Riddellmdz: your UDS e-mail wasn't clear to me, are we ment to forward names of invitees?05:32
fabbioneogra: if you did an upload with Closes LP: #1234, check with with cprov. some of them have gone lost05:32
mdzRiddell: yes05:32
pittiogra: I reported it to the soyuz guys already05:32
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Riddellmdz: ok05:33
pittifabbione: I mailed u-d-a@ about it actually05:33
ograwell, i only noticed the Maintainer being used ... but just saw the flip/flop today, so i thought i should mention it :)05:33
fabbionepitti: ok05:33
pittiogra: hm, did it actually change *back* to Maintainer?05:33
fabbionepitti: mail is not around yet...05:33
mdzpitti: yes, it's behaving strangely.  but known.05:34
ograwell i see a bunch that uses Maintainer ...05:34
mdzsounds like we can safely wrap up the meeting, then05:34
ograand then there are dokos uploads :)05:34
pittifabbione: it was days ago already05:34
fabbionepitti: i am talking to the uploads it lost today?05:34
pittifabbione: that would be news to me05:34
fabbione<cprov> fabbione: yes, something went wrong in soyuz when closing the respective bug05:35
pittifabbione: doesn't it close bugs for packages that were held in the unapproved queue until thawing?05:35
fabbionethis was about one hour ago05:35
pittierk05:35
fabbioneit's fixed05:35
pittifabbione: ok, good to know05:35
fabbionebut it might have lost not just my upload05:35
pittifabbione: I only applied the fix in-place in soyuz, it might have been clobbered by  the new rollout05:35
dholbachthanks everybody :)05:35
fabbionepitti:  i don't know the details.. -ENOACCESS to the toys05:35
mdzright. back to your regularly scheduled soyuz chatter. :-)05:36
mdzadjourned, thanks everyone05:36
fabbionebye bye05:36
pittithanks everyone05:36
evandthanks05:36
agoliveiraBye all05:36
ograthanks05:36
keescookbye05:36
asacthanks all05:36
kwwiibye all05:36
pittithat was easy today :)05:36
mvobye!05:36
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mathiazbye all05:36
BenCbye everyone....good job on tribe-205:36
dendrobatesbye05:36
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amitkbye05:36
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brycecya!05:40
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Jun 11:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
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AndyP@schedule london12:03
ubotuSchedule for Europe/London: 29 Jun 12:00: MOTU Team | 03 Jul 20:00: Technical Board | 04 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 16:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu12:03

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