[12:15] <ajmitch> sorry, /r:Mono.Posix.dll
[12:15] <ajmitch> and?
[12:15] <mok0> He's on Linux
[12:15] <ajmitch> so?
[12:15] <ajmitch> that's why it uses Mono.Posix
[12:16] <mok0> It doesn't look like linux syntax
[12:16] <ajmitch> it ids
[12:16] <ajmitch> s/ids/is/
[12:16] <jussi01> ajmitch: go easy on me, :) where do i put that?
[12:16] <ajmitch> in the makefile
[12:16] <ajmitch> or .build
[12:17] <mok0> Ah, its a switch on the mcs command
[12:17] <ajmitch> yes
[12:17] <TheMuso> Hey folks.
[12:17] <mok0> line 39
[12:17] <ajmitch> 16:33 < tepsipakki> ajmitch: /d:MONONATIVE did the trick :)
[12:17] <jussi01> hiya TheMuso
[12:18] <jussi01> ok, so where in the makefile do i put it?
[12:18] <mok0> you have to edit Makefile.am
[12:19] <jussi01> ok
[12:19] <jussi01> im there
[12:20] <superm1> TheMuso, thanks for the catch on any/all on the gdm-theme.  I updated it again if you'd be able to look it over once more
[12:20] <TheMuso> superm1: Let me get through my morning email backlog, and then I'll be able to have a look.
[12:20] <jussi01> ajmitch: where do i put it ?
[12:20] <superm1> k TheMuso thanks
[12:20] <ajmitch> jussi01: given that I haven't got the source in front of me, I can't tell you
[12:20] <jussi01> heh...ok
[12:21] <jussi01> ajmitch: there is Makefile.am http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27506/
[12:31] <mok0> jussi01: I think you want to try to edit src/FlaimProvider/FlaimWrapper/Makefile.am
[12:31] <mok0> because that's where your build fails
[12:32] <mok0> Add a line FlaimWrapper_CSCFLAGS = whatever ajmitch said
[12:32] <jussi01> mok0: ate the end? start?
[12:33] <mok0> There's a section that starts with FlaimWrapper_Target = $(LIB_PREF)...
[12:33] <mok0> put it right there
[12:34] <mok0> after that line
[12:35] <mok0> If you grep for CSCFLAGS you can see those funny flags
[12:35] <mok0> in Makefile
[12:35] <jussi01> so: 
[12:35] <jussi01> FlaimWrapper_Target = $(LIB_PREF)FlaimWrapper$(SHARED_LIB_EXT)
[12:35] <jussi01> FlaimWrapper_CSCFLAGS = /r:Mono.Posix.dll
[12:35] <mok0> Look ok
[12:35] <jussi01> :)
[12:35] <mok0> Looks ok
[12:36] <mok0> Now run make
[12:36] <TheMuso> calc: Congratulations!
[12:36] <jussi01> nope, doesnt like me... do i have to do ./configure again?
[12:37] <mok0> yes. 
[12:37] <mok0> that will generate a Makefile from your Makefile.am
[12:38] <mok0> you can grep and see if your switch is now in the Makefile
[12:40] <jussi01> still gives me the same error...
[12:40] <jussi01> :(
[12:40] <AndyP> try /d:MONONATIVE - ajmitch said that too
[12:41] <mok0> #&*?!!%&!!!
[12:41] <jussi01> yeah, I just did...
[12:41] <jussi01> freakin thing...
[12:41] <mok0> Usually helps to sleep on it :-)
[12:42] <jussi01> mok0: good idea... its 1.45 here...
[12:42] <jussi01> ill try again tomorrow...
[12:42] <mok0> OK see you later!
[12:43] <jussi01> ok, goodnight, and thankyou once again..
[12:45] <ajmitch> heh
[12:45] <ajmitch> did he neglect to run autoreconf, or automake?
[12:50] <AndyP> :)
[12:51] <AndyP> wow, only 44 merges left to do according to MoM... seems like a good number for this stage in the cycle
[12:52] <TheMuso> That could go up at any moment.
[12:52] <AndyP> really? i thought the debian autosyncing was finished
[12:53] <TheMuso> I think packages that need merging still appear.
[12:53] <TheMuso> But I am not sure.
[12:54] <ajmitch> http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/missing-fixes-rc.html <-- I think it's sane, but that's just the voices speaking
[12:55] <ajmitch> some problems there with case sensitivity again
[12:55] <geser> as long as Debian maintainers upload new packages merges will appear and till the next Debian freeze is a long time
[12:56] <ajmitch> may as well start filing syncs to fix rc bugs
[12:56] <geser> ajmitch: can you add a timestamp to that page so one can bug you if it doesn't get updated anymore?
[12:56] <ajmitch> I guess so
[12:58] <geser> wordpress is also on the rc-list :(
[12:58] <ajmitch> ok, done
[12:59] <ajmitch> geser: that's expected, this only works by version number
[01:00] <geser> it would be good if not every wordpress upload fixes a security bug
[01:02] <ajmitch> it would be good if wordpress never had security problems
[01:02] <pygi> ajmitch, :P
[01:04] <ajmitch> there are some debian-specific (for now) bugs
[01:04] <_Enchained> hi Motus
[01:04] <_Enchained> I've a package waiting for +2 :)
[01:05] <_Enchained> (thx TheMuso)
[01:05] <_Enchained> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5779
[01:06] <geser> this +2 sound almost like from a role-playing game: Ubuntu package +2 :)
[01:07] <_Enchained> lol
[01:10] <AndyP> sorry :)
[01:10] <_Enchained> +100XP
[01:11] <pygi> _Enchained, I can burn your sword
[01:11] <pygi> so it's useless
[01:11] <_Enchained> ...
[01:12] <pygi> _Enchained, sorry, you didn't use the correct software to record the cd, so I gain 2000 energy
[01:13] <nixternal> hey, what is the "REAL" difference between any and all for Architecture: in debian/control?
[01:13] <nixternal> don't they both create an architecutre independent package?
[01:13] <crimsun> no.
[01:14] <crimsun> "all" is arch-independent.  "any" isn't.
[01:14] <TheMuso> There is a big difference actually.
[01:14] <TheMuso> makes sense if you think about it.
[01:14] <AndyP> all creates a package for all arches, any can create a package for any arch (i think)
[01:14] <ScottK> crimsun: Do you have a moment for a PM?
[01:14] <crimsun> ScottK: sure
[01:15] <superm1> nixternal, any will run a build on every possible architecture, all only does one build
[01:15] <crimsun> nixternal: any normally must be compiled into arch-specific object code.
[01:16] <nixternal> superm1: and I just read that right as you said it, all == 1 package for all, and any == 1 package for each
[01:16] <nixternal> now that makes sense to me
[01:18] <TheMuso> superm1: gtk2-engines-mythbuntu given a second ack, and uploaded. Thanks a lot for your work.
[01:18] <superm1> thanks TheMuso and nixternal for the revu's and upload
[01:19] <TheMuso> superm1: You may have also seen my comment for blueheart.
[01:20] <superm1> I forgot all about that upload.  I'll have to take a look. :)
[01:20] <nixternal> TheMuso: the reason I asked about the all and any is because the 'nautilus-wallpaper' package has any, and I had noticed that for an icons package it was recommended to use all. wouldn't it make sense for a wallpaper package to do the same? arch all that is
[01:21] <TheMuso> nixternal: Gah I totally missed that. Let me have anothe rlook.
[01:21] <TheMuso> another even.
[01:22] <nixternal> woohoo, I found one :)
[01:22] <TheMuso> nixternal: No thats corect. If you look closer, nautilus-wallpaper is an extension, which is a shared object
[01:23] <TheMuso> If you build it, you will notice usr/lib/nautilus/extensions-1.0/libnautilus-wallpaper.so.0.0.0
[01:23] <nixternal> ahh, that it is
[01:23] <nixternal> shall I make it my first upload? :)
[01:23] <TheMuso> May as well.
[01:23] <nixternal> rock on
[01:24] <TheMuso> I'd make sure that it builds and looks sane though first, just to be sure.
[01:24] <StevenK> nixternal: Gah, who let you in? :-P
[01:24] <TheMuso> Just so you get in the habbit.
[01:24] <nixternal> hahaha
[01:24] <nixternal> already did :)
[01:24] <TheMuso> Goodo.
[01:24] <StevenK> nixternal: Congrats. :-)
[01:24] <TheMuso> nixternal: Yeah, congratulations!
[01:24] <nixternal> first thing I do, I dget the .dsc, build it, and while building it I go through and look at the dir in revu
[01:24] <nixternal> thank you!
[01:25] <nixternal> hahaha, this is sad, I don't even know what to put after dput ;p /me looks at /etc/dput.cf
[01:26] <TheMuso> dput ubuntu changesfile
[01:26] <persia> nixternal: foo.changes
[01:26] <TheMuso> remember to sign it.
[01:26] <StevenK> I've set my default to be ubuntu
[01:26] <_Enchained> nixternal thanx for your review
[01:26] <nixternal> persia: ya, that I know :)
[01:26] <nixternal> _Enchained: no problem
[01:26] <StevenK> From time to time I've managed to upload to Ubuntu when I meant Debian.
[01:26] <TheMuso> StevenK: lol
[01:26] <nixternal> ubuntu is the default here as well
[01:26] <_Enchained> for the arch, all is for java package for example, which is arch independant
[01:27] <nixternal> I dput 2 debian packages to revu, so don't feel bad
[01:27] <nixternal> but neither one of them showed up on revu
[01:28] <pygi> patience, they will ;P
[01:28] <nixternal> dunno, the last time I did it was a month ago
[01:31] <nixternal> well, it said the upload was successful. at this point, successful means to me that WW III wasn't kicked off ;)
[01:32] <TheMuso> heh
[01:36] <StevenK> nixternal: Oh, it was, it's just very quiet at this point.
[01:36] <LaserJock> anybody had problems mounting vfat in gutsy?
[01:36] <nixternal> hehe
[01:37] <nixternal> LaserJock: do usb sticks count as vfat?
[01:37] <nixternal> at least I mount them as vfat, and I haven't had an issue
[01:38] <ScottK> nixternal: In Gutsy, not Vista.
[01:39] <StevenK> Muahaha
[01:39] <nixternal> teehee
[01:39] <nixternal> that wouldn't do anything fortunately
[01:39] <StevenK> Except for you.
[01:39] <nixternal> hrmm
[01:39] <nixternal> Host 'heavymetal', running Linux 2.6.20-16-server - Cpu0: Pentium III 797 MHz; Up: 4d+16:45; Users: 1; Load: 0.27; Free: [Mem: 8/376 Mio]  [Swap: 831/831 Mio]  [/: 15011/18415 Mio] ; Vpenis: 27.2 cm;
[01:40] <nixternal> well, that is my server, don't say much about my laptop :)
[01:41] <StevenK> % ssh i sh ~steven/vpenis.sh
[01:41] <StevenK> 136.0cm
[01:41] <StevenK> That's my server.
[01:42] <nixternal> damn, hahahaha
[01:42] <geser> what happens when Hobbsee calls this script?
[01:42] <nixternal> I knew it was only a matter of time, that is why I didn't say what I was going to say
[01:42] <nixternal> ahh hell
[01:42] <nixternal> damn StevenK, your server is hung!
[01:43] <StevenK> Muaha
[01:43] <StevenK> What, hung like several horses?
[01:43] <StevenK> Ahem.
[01:48] <geser> StevenK: keep care that your server doesn't get more enlargement spam
[01:49] <nixternal> hehe
[01:49] <StevenK> That server doesn't even have an MTA, so that isn't a problem.
[01:51] <ajmitch> StevenK: how is merkel hung?
[01:51] <LaserJock> hmm, a reboot fixed the mounting problem
[01:51] <nixternal> once you upload a package from revu, do you archive that package?
[01:52] <crimsun> yes.
[01:52] <nixternal> k, thanks
[01:52] <StevenK> % ssh merkel.debian.org sh vpenis.sh
[01:52] <StevenK> 1773.0cm
[01:52] <StevenK> Holy crap.
[01:52] <crimsun> you also write an email to ubuntu-motu@l.u.c stating it was uploaded
[01:52] <ajmitch> haha
[01:52] <nixternal> crimsun: c/p the email that I received from the upload?
[01:53] <crimsun> the relevant portions, sure
[01:53] <nixternal> roger
[01:56] <nixternal> anyone working to automate revu more than it is at all? i.e. doing this automagically? i.e, back to the frontpage type buttons, breadcrumbs, and anything else you can think of?
[01:57] <ajmitch> nixternal: start hacking
[01:57] <ajmitch> source is available
[02:00] <StevenK> That's about as useful as "Patches welcome"
[02:00] <AndyP> is it easy to install revu locally to test any changes you might make?
[02:02] <nixternal> ajmitch: cool
[02:02] <nixternal> that is all I needed to hear :)
[02:03] <nixternal> ajmitch: speaking of your snowstorm this past week, South Africa supposedly seen snow today/yesterday according to the news
[02:18] <LaserJock> nixternal: well, Mark told me he wants REVU to be incorporated into Launchpad
[02:19] <LaserJock> hence things like PPA and bazaar
[02:20] <LaserJock> nixternal and TheMuso it helps doing stats if you prefix your REVU emails with REVU: ;-)
[02:20] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Yeah I know. I noticed that after I had sent the message.
[02:22] <AndyP> PPA?
[02:23] <nixternal> LaserJock: OK, I followed TheMuso as an example, so it is his fault ;p
[02:23] <TheMuso> nixternal: Sure you have seen other posts to the list that have done it properly. Why even I did the correct thing earlier on when I uploaded another revu package.
[02:23] <nixternal> LaserJock: tell mark in order to get REVU in LP, the LP has to be GPL'd ;)
[02:23] <TheMuso> haha
[02:23] <nixternal> hehe
[02:24] <nixternal> LaserJock: and I seriously hope you were joking about REVU being incorporated into LP
[02:24] <crimsun> no, it's not a joke
[02:24] <nixternal> why do they want everything in LP? so when they do the deal with Microsoft everything is in one location?
[02:25] <ajmitch> pygi: yes, and?
[02:25] <StevenK> nixternal: Oh dear. Bitter much?
[02:25] <nixternal> no, that was a joke :)
[02:25] <nixternal> actually, maybe a bit of sarcasm actually
[02:26] <crimsun> so yes, bitter.
[02:26] <crimsun> don't worry, many MOTU are.
[02:26] <ajmitch> he's still learning
[02:26] <ajmitch> give him time
[02:27] <nixternal> well, the LP thing is nice and all, but with it, you can't support this philosophy you preach, at leas that is what I feel
[02:27] <nixternal> open source and free software all over ubuntu.com. that would be like RMS using Outlook for email
[02:28] <nixternal> well maybe no that extreme ;p
[02:28] <nixternal> not*
[02:29] <nixternal> that's not what she said
[02:29] <TheMuso> if I was bitter, I wouldn't do this any more.
[02:29] <nixternal> me either :)
[02:29] <nixternal> when the Trinity goes, I go :)
[02:29] <TheMuso> heh
[02:30] <nixternal> ajmitch, LaserJock, and crimsun of course :)
[02:30] <crimsun> I was never part of it.
[02:30] <LaserJock> nixternal: the problem is that REVU hasn't been updated, we don't have a lot of time for such things
[02:30] <AndyP> ah, personal package archives
[02:30] <LaserJock> nixternal: having the archive, bugs, package reviewing, etc. all in one system is nice
[02:31] <nixternal> LaserJock: is there a list of things that people would like to see with revu?
[02:31] <LaserJock> there is a REVU2 spec
[02:31] <nixternal> LaserJock: that is very true what you just posted
[02:31] <LaserJock> from like Montreal or something
[02:31] <nixternal> OK, I will take a look at it
[02:31] <nixternal> holy moley
[02:31] <nixternal> montreal was like 2 years ago already
[02:31] <crimsun> I don't mean to sound down, but the real problem is intractable.  We will not have enough manpower to handle it until several years from now.
[02:31] <nixternal> a little over a year ago
[02:31] <jsgotangco> man that was like only yesterday ;-)
[02:32] <nixternal> hehe
[02:32] <LaserJock> crimsun: what is "it"?
[02:32] <ajmitch> nixternal: I've never been part of it either
[02:32] <crimsun> LaserJock: the package review issue.
[02:32] <LaserJock> crimsun: agreed
[02:32] <crimsun> LP is not a panacea.
[02:32] <nixternal> bah, horsepoop, you are a part of the trinity, I do't care what you say :)
[02:33] <ajmitch> nixternal: if I was, you wouldn't be able to disagree with me
[02:33] <LaserJock> no, but I brought it up because I don't know how much we want to put into a system that will be obsoleted
[02:33] <nixternal> well, I think revu has one up on mentors though seeing as people can leave info right there
[02:33] <nixternal> ajmitch: I can't disagree with you, I know where I stand your holyness
[02:33] <LaserJock> let's see, I think the trinity was bddebian, imbrandon and myself? is that right?
[02:33] <TheMuso> Speaking of bddebian...
[02:33] <pygi> ajmitch, nothing, nothing :)
[02:34] <ajmitch> pygi: no, it wasn't nothing
[02:34] <LaserJock> TheMuso: nope, probably has a life or something
[02:34] <nixternal> bddebian is moses and imbrandon is ........holy smokes my bible portion of the brain just relapsed
[02:34] <TheMuso> lol
[02:34] <pygi> ajmitch, meh, you can't accept a joke?
[02:34] <TheMuso> LaserJock: heh yeah. Unlike us. :)
[02:34] <ajmitch> pygi: no, I can't
[02:34] <crimsun> pygi: remember, many of us are bitter.
[02:34] <pygi> ajmitch, ah
[02:34] <pygi> crimsun, meh
[02:34] <LaserJock> TheMuso: yeah ;-)
[02:35] <LaserJock> everyone who's bitter raise their hand!
[02:35] <nixternal> there is a pyramid going with those last 3 lines
[02:35] <nixternal> what am I supposed to be bitter about?
[02:35] <LaserJock> everything of course
[02:35] <nixternal> I think you all hold a different bitterness than I do maybe
[02:35] <crimsun> I'm not bitter now.  There's a light at the end of the tunnel.
[02:35] <ajmitch> life, the universe & everything
[02:35] <LaserJock> crimsun: really? good for you
[02:36] <crimsun> now whether it's an explosion or heaven is another matter altogether
[02:36] <nixternal> hahaha
[02:36] <LaserJock> my tunnel of dispair is just getting darker
[02:36] <LaserJock> no light yet
[02:36] <nixternal> I haven't even found the damn tunnel yet
[02:36] <TheMuso> s/had/experienced/
[02:37] <LaserJock> well, speaking of LP, I had a good talk with kiko
[02:37] <ajmitch> kiko is cool though
[02:37] <nixternal> how could I be bitter towards Ubuntu/Kubuntu? it is given to me for free, I am allowed to work with super cool people (including you all, sometimes), and it has opened a lot of doors for me here in Chicago, and soon next door to crimsun 
[02:38] <LaserJock> he really opologized for the "triaged" and "changelog doesn't close bug" regressions
[02:38] <nixternal> I am bitter about how we are community ran, yet there is quite a bit of non-community stuff/ideas that gets thrown upon us w/o warning. not bitter, but annoyed
[02:38] <LaserJock> and it sounds like they are going to start redirecting Beta Testers to edge in a week or so
[02:39] <nixternal> ajmitch: he is cool, and so are the rest of the full-timers, but I don't think it is there fault really
[02:39] <LaserJock> so there should be quite a bit more testing before rollout
[02:39] <nixternal> nice
[02:39] <LaserJock> I'm also going to start tracking the milestones better
[02:39] <LaserJock> now that they are actually using them
[02:39] <AndyP> launchpad needs its own hug day
[02:39] <LaserJock> they're called Fix-it-Fridays ;-)
[02:40] <nixternal> AndyP: the people who work on launchpad need a hug :)
[02:40] <AndyP> nixternal: don't we all :)
[02:40] <nixternal> haha
[02:40] <LaserJock> one thing we'll have on the next rollout is bzr smartserver
[02:40] <nixternal> java class extensions are rediculous...cool idea, but my lord slow as all hell
[02:40] <LaserJock> so bzr checkouts should be a lot faster
[02:41] <nixternal> LaserJock: ya, we have a local bzr dev for canonical in chicago, he has provided some neat insite on bzr and its future
[02:41] <nixternal> I am trying to get him and Sussman in the same room together for a talk
[02:41] <ajmitch> yeah, we have a local bzr+lp developer here in dunedin, who I've had lunch with a couple of times
[02:41] <nixternal> Sussman actually admitted they use Bzr at Google
[02:41] <ajmitch> he's in london this week though
[02:41] <RAOF> LaserJock: Yeah, jml recently pushed that bzr+ssh code :)
[02:41] <TheMuso> /aw
[02:41] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yay!
[02:42] <ajmitch> it took about an hour to checkout a branch today
[02:42] <ajmitch> a recent cvs import
[02:42] <ajmitch> hey jml :)
[02:42] <nixternal> hiya jml 
[02:42] <ajmitch> see, we can't get away from the lp developers
[02:43] <nixternal> ajmitch: like I said, not their fault I don't think :)
[02:43] <LaserJock> we should also be to set/change tags via email
[02:43] <nixternal> they are creating an amazing product
[02:43] <ajmitch> jml almost seemed normal when I met him...
[02:43] <nixternal> LaserJock: I like that idea
[02:43] <nixternal> hahaha ajmitch 
[02:43] <jml> ajmitch: that's one of the nicest things anyone has said about me in a while
[02:43] <ajmitch> heh
[02:43] <nixternal> gahahaha
[02:43] <crimsun> hmm, setting/changing tags via email.  It wasn't too long ago that someone mentioned not liking Debian BTS...
[02:44] <LaserJock> heah, Debian BTS doesn't like me
[02:44] <LaserJock> ;-)
[02:44] <RAOF> ...because you can only do stuff by email?
[02:44] <nixternal> Debian BTS takes some getting used to, but once you do (and create email templates like I did in advance), it is actually quite nice
[02:45] <nixternal> it is quicker than LP for me at times
[02:45] <StevenK> Maybe because I've been using it for roughly six years
[02:45] <nixternal> definitely quicker than KDE Bugzilla
[02:45] <LaserJock> I really just haven't gotten used to it
[02:45] <LaserJock> LP is the only bug tracker I feel comfortable with
[02:45] <nixternal> there needs to be a solid document that shows off everything Debian BTS in one location, not 6
[02:45] <LaserJock> which probably says how much I've used other bug trackers
[02:46] <nixternal> Debian documentation is horrible, not the main docs like d.o/doc, but the other docs
[02:46] <LaserJock> when BTS gets a web frontend I'll be happy
[02:46] <StevenK> nixternal: There is. The soure.
[02:46] <StevenK> source, even
[02:46] <RAOF> LaserJock: Yeah.
[02:46] <nixternal> to find out everything Debian has about debian/rules, your breakcrumb list would be 2 miles long
[02:46] <LaserJock> another thing slated for the next LP rollout is automatic "Needs Info" exipring
[02:47] <RAOF> Cool.
[02:47] <nixternal> awesome!
[02:47] <StevenK> Why? I don't think so. debian/rules is just a makefile.
[02:47] <AndyP> you mean Incomplete
[02:47] <crimsun> right, Incomplete, I presume.
[02:47] <nixternal> so that way there I don't get yelled out for closing a bug that hasn't been touched for 2 years and was never repeatable
[02:47] <RAOF> :)
[02:47] <nixternal> StevenK: sorry, not debian/rules, debian/control is what I meant
[02:48] <LaserJock> yeah, I'm not sure what exactly the time limit will be
[02:48] <crimsun> it's a bit humorous that many people repeatedly ignore "Incomplete/Needs Info" but will yell upon "Invalid/Won't Fix/Rejected"
[02:48] <StevenK> nixternal: Even so, I still disagree.
[02:48] <nixternal> my debian/rules files are at most 5 lines because of cdbs, unless I am doing relibtoolization
[02:49] <nixternal> StevenK: there is the NM Guide, the DD Guide, and neither one of them contains everything there is to know about debian/control. But there are about 4 or 5 wiki pages that have info and explanations that the 2 docs don't and so forth
[02:49] <nixternal> a lot of personal pages that need to be easily navigated to as well for packaging information
[02:49] <LaserJock> I like the Debian Policy personally
[02:49] <nixternal> that is a good read
[02:49] <LaserJock> once I got over being overwhelmed
[02:49] <nixternal> haha
[02:49] <nixternal> ya, it has quite a bit to stomach
[02:49] <LaserJock> now I know, in general, where everything is
[02:49] <StevenK> Debian Policy should contain mostly everything.
[02:49] <nixternal> I have a binder now where I have printed out all of the Debian docs
[02:50] <LaserJock> so I can quickly find what I need
[02:50] <AndyP> it's an excellent reference but i wouldn't read it at bedtime
[02:50] <LaserJock> and it actually describes stuff
[02:50] <LaserJock> nixternal:  they should put it on lulu.com so people can order printed copies
[02:50] <nixternal> heh, I read all of the docs at bed time
[02:50] <LaserJock> I'd spend so much in ink printing out all that stuff
[02:51] <nixternal> I read 1 chapter of python, go over packaging docs/dd docs, and stuff like that while I fall asleep
[02:51] <LaserJock> I don't really read anymore
[02:51] <nixternal> ya, I have blown a lot of ink printing them, and when there is an update, it gets printed as well
[02:51] <LaserJock> they should have print diffs ;-)
[02:51] <LaserJock> so you only print out the pages that are different
[02:52] <StevenK> I don't print stuff out. You can't grep dead trees.
[02:52] <nixternal> damn LaserJock, that is a good idea
[02:52] <TheMuso> StevenK: Agreed.
[02:52] <nixternal> StevenK: nope, but when you are lying in bed and your significant other is snoring, and...
[02:52] <nixternal> well you read :)
[02:53] <nixternal> LaserJock: get to flowcharting it, I will work on the Qt4 frontend for it
[02:53] <LaserJock> lol
[02:53] <LaserJock> the only thing I'm reading these days is C++
[02:53] <nixternal> I am getting ready to give a Java and Qt4 demonstration here
[02:53] <StevenK> nixternal: I read novels in that circumstance.
[02:53] <nixternal> LaserJock: same here as well
[02:53] <LaserJock> I'm trying to get my brain wrapped around it
[02:53] <nixternal> StevenK: Playboy isn't a novel!
[02:54] <LaserJock> I *used* to read novels (Lord of the Rings, Narnia, etc.)
[02:54] <nixternal> LaserJock: it is actually fairly easy once you understand it, I think I picked it up way quicker than I am with Python truthfully
[02:54] <LaserJock> but now I just work on Ubuntu 'til the last possible minute
[02:54] <LaserJock> nixternal: really?
[02:54] <nixternal> 'til the last possible minute' == LaserJock get yo ass to bed now! from the wife :)
[02:54] <LaserJock> I was productive with python from day one
[02:55] <LaserJock> exactly
[02:55] <nixternal> ya, I suck at Python
[02:55] <LaserJock> I'm not sure if I could do Hello World that well in C++
[02:55] <LaserJock> well, I'm not quite that bad
[02:56] <nixternal> I am getting better, I have written a small Qt4 app that will eventually enable/disable IPv6 for KDE if you are on an IPv4 network. this decreases the DNS lookups to clients that aren't there, and speeds up browsing in Konqui 
[02:56] <nixternal> haha
[02:56] <nixternal> #include <iostrea>
[02:56] <nixternal> using namespace std;
[02:56] <LaserJock> but I have a hard time keeping track of all the different things, pointers, constructors, destructors, types, etc.
[02:56] <nixternal> int main(){ cout << "HELLO WORLD!"; return 0; }
[02:57] <RAOF> nixternal: Oldschool.  New compilers require std::cout :)
[02:57] <nixternal> well, I was confused with them for a while myself, but this java course has made it so clear now that it isn't even funny
[02:57] <pygi> nixternal, wrong, you'r missing the "m" in include :)
[02:57] <nixternal> huh?
[02:57] <nixternal> hahahaha
[02:57] <crimsun> RAOF: he included a default namespace.
[02:57] <nixternal> I sure am
[02:57] <nixternal> yup
[02:57] <RAOF> Bah. Missed that :)
[02:57] <nixternal> using namespace std;
[02:57] <nixternal> hehe
[02:57] <pygi> RAOF, works without it :)
[02:58] <StevenK> crimsun: Bah, I was about to say that.
[02:58] <nixternal> I was working on it
[02:58] <RAOF> pygi: Even if you include <iostream>, rather than <iostream.h>?  It's been a while since I've tried :)
[02:58] <nixternal> but the brain to finger mechanism froze again
[02:58] <StevenK> nixternal: Again? Or still?
[02:58] <pygi> RAOF, you aren't actually supposed to include iostream.h :)
[02:58] <nixternal> still I guess
[02:59] <nixternal> include "iostream.h" if it is in the source dir maybe :)
[02:59] <RAOF> pygi: Yes, I know.  You also aren't actually supposed to use the un-namespaced "cout" :)
[02:59] <pygi> RAOF, but he did use: "use namespace std;" :)
[02:59] <LaserJock> hmm, "How many Ubuntu devs does it take to write Hello World in C++"
[02:59] <pygi> LaserJock, 0.1 :)
[02:59] <nixternal> haha
[03:00] <RAOF> pygi: Oh, I thought your "works without it" was "works without namespacing at all"
[03:00] <nixternal> I just wrote it, all I forgot was the m
[03:00] <pygi> RAOF, no :p
[03:00] <RAOF> I've recently started hacking on a compiz plugin, which needs to be in C.  Man, I wish it was python :)
[03:01] <StevenK> RAOF: To do what?
[03:01] <pygi> RAOF, C rocks, leave C alone :)
[03:01] <LaserJock> well, I'm going to head home, perhaps I'll do some C++ tonight. I figured out what a constructor that has a parent constructor looks like
[03:02] <pygi> LaserJock, :-D
[03:02] <RAOF> pygi: If I wanted to deal with memory allocation, I'd use assembly.  I'd like a language where I can ensure that memory is freed when an object leaves scope, thanks. :)
[03:02] <pygi> RAOF, you don't bash on C, or you'll have to deal with me :)
[03:02] <StevenK> Heh
[03:03] <RAOF> StevenK: A different (radial) window-switcher idea (yeah, I know they already have 2).  It'll group windows by the owning application, though, and that only really works in a radial-type idea.
[03:03] <gnomefreak> anyone have link to the NEW query for packages waiting for push to archives?
[03:04] <StevenK> gnomefreak: launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue ?
[03:04] <gnomefreak> StevenK: ty
[03:04] <StevenK> RAOF: I love how CompComm can group multiple windows into one.
[03:04] <StevenK> They still need a better name than CompComm
[03:05] <RAOF> Compiz-Fusion is the final name.
[03:05] <StevenK> Aw
[03:05] <RAOF> Check out the Gutsy packages :)
[03:05] <StevenK> I quite liked the name 'Coral' which I heard a few times.
[03:05] <RAOF> Pretty much no-one else did :)
[03:06] <StevenK> Awww.
[03:06] <RAOF> Importantly, none of the developers did, and so they finally made an actual decision.
[03:08] <TheMuso> StevenK: I've had to construct a few manually.
[03:09] <RAOF> So, back to topic: I've patched configure.ac and configure.  How can I prevent the build from trying to re-autotools?  Can anyone suggest a source package which does that with cdbs?
[03:09] <StevenK> RAOF: Hrm. It shoudn't.
[03:10] <StevenK> TheMuso: I've done a whole bunch, I just prefer not to. :-)
[03:10] <nixternal> argh, I guess the java upload today removed my damn netbeans
[03:10] <ajmitch> yay!
[03:11] <ajmitch> nixternal: btw, define "being on an ipv6 network"
[03:12] <RAOF> StevenK: Oh, is that maintainer mode?  Checking timestamps and trying to re-gen configure & Makefile.in ?
[03:12] <ajmitch> having a default ipv6 route set? link-local addresses?
[03:12] <StevenK> RAOF: I have no idea...
[03:13] <StevenK> RAOF: I tend to find out stuff about autotools, and then forget it within an hour out of sheer self-defense. :-)
[03:13] <RAOF> :)
[03:13] <ajmitch> trying to defend your sanity? it's a lost cause
[03:14] <StevenK> That cause was lost long ago.
[03:26] <crimsun> mm, compiz in gutsy has come a long way
[03:29] <pygi> crimsun, mvo was on it all day and night for ages :P
[03:32] <ajmitch> crimsun: I still don't like it, it slows down windowed opengl stuff too much
[03:32] <StevenK> I'm entirely unsure if rsync is actually downloading the whole lot or not. :-/
[03:34] <StevenK> Hrm. It's hit 1.54MB/s and it's on 2Mbit, so I think it's skipping bits.
[03:34] <RAOF> Huzzah!  In case anyone else is interested, a cdbs rule which is run after patching but before configure is post-patches :)
[03:35] <TheMuso> RAOF: cool thanks for the tidbit.
[03:35] <ScottK> Is it to late to join the bitter club?
[03:35] <TheMuso> Yes, the club has been dispanded.
[03:36] <StevenK> Its also been disbanded.
[03:36] <TheMuso> No bitterness here.
[03:36] <TheMuso> ah
[03:36] <TheMuso> head not screwed on this morning
[03:36] <joejaxx> TheMuso: :P
[03:39] <StevenK> TheMuso: ... Sometimes?
[03:42] <TheMuso> ...or wireless AP
[03:43] <ajmitch> TheMuso: that's like switching off his life support
[03:43] <ajmitch> you're just evil
[03:43] <StevenK> Right then.
[03:43] <TheMuso> Not nearly as evil as some around here.
[03:43] <TheMuso> Even then I don't think anybody is evil.
[03:45] <LaserJock> back
[03:45] <StevenK> ajmitch: I daresay I'm not going to be here much from this afternoon until tomorrow evening, so I don't think so.
[03:45] <ajmitch> welcome back, mr LaserJock 
[03:45] <ajmitch> StevenK: oh well
[03:46] <ajmitch> work?
[03:46] <StevenK> Worse.
[03:46] <LaserJock> life?
[03:46] <TheMuso> heh
[03:46] <StevenK> My uncle passed away on the weekend, and I'm dealing with that fun.
[03:46] <gnomefreak> is there a such thing as an easy merge?
[03:46] <LaserJock> oh, that's uncool
[03:46] <RAOF> Aw, man.  What files do I need to touch to prevent configure trying to re-autotools stuff.
[03:46] <gnomefreak> StevenK: sorry to hear that
[03:46] <RAOF> gnomefreak: Oh, yes, definitely.
[03:46] <LaserJock> StevenK: sorry to hear that 
[03:47] <StevenK> LaserJock, gnomefreak: Thanks.
[03:47] <RAOF> StevenK: Sorry to hear that.
[03:47] <ajmitch> StevenK: ah, sorry
[03:47] <RAOF> gnomefreak: For example, if gst-plugins-farsight's upstream build system wasn't broken, it would be an easy merge :/
[03:47] <StevenK> The bigger problem is that my uncle is going to buried quite close to where my father is buried, which is bringing up a lot of other fun stuff, too.
[03:48] <TheMuso> StevenK: Sorry to hear that. I will have to face a similar situation soon anyway, as my grandmother has cancer in the liver, and has only been given months to live.
[03:48] <TheMuso> So yeah, fun time ahead ofr me also.
[03:49] <StevenK> I'm just not used to seeing an image on my computer and twitching from memories.
[03:49] <LaserJock> mhm
[04:13] <ScottK> StevenK: My condolences.  No fun at all.
[04:13] <LaserJock> nixternal: still around?
[04:13] <ScottK> TheMuso: You too.
[04:14] <TheMuso> ScottK: Twill be a while yet. I am not worrying over it at this point.
[04:40] <nixternal> LaserJock: I am heading home
[04:40] <nixternal> give me about an hour
[04:41] <LaserJock> nixternal: fine be that way ;-)
[04:41] <TheMuso> heh
[04:41] <LaserJock> nixternal: I just wanted to ask you if you use kdevelop
[05:15] <ajmitch> sigh, a sign I really should update & upload this code I have
[05:16] <wolfeon> is there any way to release a package after a release which was accidently not included ?
[05:16] <wolfeon> php-interbase was not released for fiesty
[05:16] <wolfeon> possibly not in gutsy right now too
[05:17] <ajmitch> only by backports
[05:17] <wolfeon> ajmitch: aww, damn it :(
[05:17] <wolfeon> oh well ;)
[05:17] <wolfeon> I don't need ibwebmin, its just nice to have.. 
[05:17] <StevenK> And only then if php-interbase makes it back into Gutsy.
[05:18] <wolfeon> StevenK: yeah...
[05:18] <StevenK> Personally, I'd rather it didn't. PHP is a pile of crap and Interbase is worse.
[05:18] <wolfeon> I've no idea why it was not included, did some mysql shill come around and ignore it on purpose? ;)
[05:18] <wolfeon> StevenK: oh, I couldn't give a flying leap about interbase. Firebird has made great progress since the release of the interbase source code
[05:19] <StevenK> No, the reason is that php is in main, and interbase is in universe, and a package in main can't Build-Depend on something in universe.
[05:19] <StevenK> Firebird is just as bad.
[05:19] <wolfeon> StevenK: I've seen plenty of firebird 1.5 apps run forever, and stable
[05:19] <wolfeon> and fast
[05:20] <wolfeon> its only 5 gigs, but it is fast as mysql for what I'm using it for.
[05:21] <wolfeon> I actually am eager for a Firebird 2.2 release, they're really beefing it up.
[05:21] <wolfeon> *2.1, heh
[05:22] <LaserJock> I've just been mad at them ever since they took Firefox's name ;-)
[05:27] <wolfeon> LaserJock: pfft :P I think it was funny.
[05:28] <wolfeon> LaserJock: Mozilla is big and stronger, I'm surprised they didn't keep the name and force FB to change theirs :)
[05:36] <nixternal> LaserJock: yes I use KDevelop, but not as often as I would like :)
[05:36] <nixternal> I use Kate more than anything really
[05:36] <LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out how to write a makefile
[05:37] <joejaxx> Hello Everyone
[05:37] <LaserJock> I noticed Kdevelop sets up a lot of stuff
[05:37] <joejaxx> :)
[05:37] <nixternal> kdevelop creates the bones of one for you
[05:37] <nixternal> ahh, ya
[05:37] <nixternal> I have written 1 makefile my entire life, and that was for a kde sys admin app back in the 90s :)
[05:37] <nixternal> I picked about 20 other makefiles to make this one :)
[05:38] <LaserJock> you'd think for all the packaging I've done I could figure out how to write an apps Makefile
[05:39] <StevenK> LaserJock: What's the problem?
[05:39] <LaserJock> nixternal: btw, kdevelop's C++ Hello World is a bit bigger than yours
[05:39] <LaserJock> well
[05:39] <nixternal> haha, it is huge
[05:40] <LaserJock> StevenK: well, I'm creating something from scratch
[05:40] <nixternal> I believe it also has its own header file that comes with it as well
[05:41] <StevenK> LaserJock: Do you need to compile something, or are you just installing things?
[05:41] <LaserJock> compiling
[05:42] <LaserJock> I'm creating an app from scratch
[05:42] <StevenK> So you need a rule to compile the application, and another to install it.
[05:43] <LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if I need all the autotools stuff
[05:43] <StevenK> I doubt it.
[05:43] <LaserJock> what I'm doing is creating a plugin for an app
[05:44] <LaserJock> but I want to build the basic function first standalone
[05:44] <StevenK> LaserJock: Right, I think I know what the problem is. You're unsure of how to write a Makefile from scratch, right?
[05:44] <LaserJock> StevenK: exactly, I've only done like single file Fortran and Python apps
[05:45] <StevenK> LaserJock: I'm happy to pastebin a incredibly simple Makefile for you.
[05:45] <LaserJock> StevenK: that'd be cool
[05:48] <StevenK> http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/27559/
[05:48] <StevenK> I'm pretty crap at writing Makefiles, but they get the job done.
[05:49] <LaserJock> StevenK: so I'd have app1.cc and app2.cc, right?
[05:49] <LaserJock> and if I need a library do I put that in CFLAGS ?
[05:51] <StevenK> Yes. And you can either put it on the $(CC) line, or in CFLAGS.
[05:51] <nixternal> man, that is a nice and easy makefile :)
[05:51] <StevenK> $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -o app $^
[05:51] <StevenK> That's a better rule.
[05:51] <wolfeon> LaserJock: I try to stay away from autohell
[05:51] <wolfeon> LaserJock: autohell is nothing but a waste of time
[05:51] <StevenK> $^ expands out to "all targets this current one depends on"
[05:52] <StevenK> LaserJock: Correction posted, now with a clean rule.
[05:59] <StevenK> LaserJock: Does that help?
[06:01] <jburd> Can gcc builds on Ubuntu include the bounds-checking patch for gcc?
[06:02] <jburd> That can greatly help developers iron out boundary access violations.
[06:02] <LaserJock> StevenK: yeah, but I can't build Hello World :/
[06:05] <crimsun> jburd: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.1/+filebug
[06:11] <RAOF> Touching all of "configure.ac aclocal.m4 config.h.in Makefile.in Makefile.am" prevents re-autotooling.
[06:11] <RAOF> Should I bother trying to find the minimal set?
[06:12] <crimsun> you shouldn't need to touch both Makefile.in and Makefile.am.  In fact, touching the former should suffice of those two.
[06:15] <RAOF> crimsun: Yeah, I though as much.  Thanks.
[06:17] <LaserJock> StevenK: do you have any idea why your makefile would cause something to not build?
[06:17] <ajmitch> RAOF: of course, marketing doesn't need to make sense
[06:18] <RAOF> But this is in the "tracker-by-default" spec wiki page.  Some non-marketing person wrote that :)
[06:18] <LaserJock> StevenK: I tried c++ -Wall -g -o hello hello.cc and it works
[06:18] <LaserJock> but make all doesn't
[06:19] <ajmitch> RAOF: I suspect it was cut & pasted, or put there by someone who actually cares too much about tracker :)
[06:19] <RAOF> :)
[06:19] <AndyP> StevenK: bug #122746 - small debdiff for a new saods9 bug if you're not busy/jaded :) or i could subscribe u-u-s instead
[06:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 122746 in saods9 "couldn't read file "/usr/lib/tcllib1.8/base64/base64.tcl"" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122746
[06:21] <LaserJock> StevenK: nvm, it's $(CC) that's the problem
[06:21] <StevenK> LaserJock: Ah.
[06:22] <RAOF> LaserJock: Does it complain about missing libstdc++?
[06:22] <StevenK> AndyP: Hum? I thought I fixed saods9.
[06:22] <AndyP> StevenK: yup, you got it to build...
[06:22] <RAOF> Because, last time I tried, that's what "gcc -Wall -o test test.cpp" would do.
[06:24] <StevenK> AndyP: Which means that bug is fixed, or still neds to be fixed?
[06:24] <LaserJock> hello.o:(.eh_frame+0x11): undefined reference to `__gxx_personality_v0'
[06:25] <AndyP> StevenK: still needs fixing (it's a runtime loading problem), it's against your newer revision of it
[06:25] <RAOF> LaserJock: I think -lstdc++ should fix that.
[06:25] <StevenK> Sigh, I see.
[06:25] <StevenK> LaserJock: Set CC = g++ a the top of the makefile
[06:26] <LaserJock> RAOF: how weird, that work
[06:26] <LaserJock> worked
[06:26] <LaserJock> is that because I was using gcc ?
[06:26] <LaserJock> instead of g++
[06:26] <AndyP> StevenK: i blame the messy code, myself, those hardcoded paths are criminal
[06:26] <StevenK> AndyP: Agreed.
[06:26] <StevenK> AndyP: I think upstream needs to be taught a lesson. With an elephant gun.
[06:27] <AndyP> or an elephant
[06:27] <AndyP> squish squish
[06:27] <StevenK> Actually, it gets better. Have a look at the Windows paths.
[06:28] <StevenK> +     source C:/cygwin/home/joye/saods9/lib/tcl8.4/http2.5/http.tcl
[06:28] <StevenK> +     source C:/cygwin/home/joye/saods9/lib/tcllib1.6/base64/base64.tcl
[06:28] <jburd> Who's writing Makefiles manually? ;-)
[06:28] <lifeless> fark
[06:28] <RAOF> LaserJock: Yes, I believe so.
[06:28] <AndyP> StevenK: i'm speechless
[06:29] <RAOF> ...
[06:29] <ajmitch> StevenK: that's pretty special
[06:29] <StevenK> Indeed.
[06:29] <LaserJock> \o/ I can make hello world!!!
[06:30] <ajmitch> congrats
[06:30] <lifeless> /o\o/
[06:30] <lifeless> /oXo/
[06:30] <LaserJock> now I just gotta figure out how to do libxml2 and push/pull xml over http
[06:30] <StevenK> AndyP: You forgot to add use_tcllib_1.9 to 00list
[06:31] <StevenK> AndyP: I've done it, I'm doing a test build now.
[06:31] <AndyP> StevenK: thanks... i really should stop staying up til 5:30am
[06:31] <StevenK> Heh
[06:32] <ajmitch> Hobbsee!
[06:33] <RAOF> Heya Hobbsee!
[06:33] <ajmitch> welcome back, TheMuso 
[06:34] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch, RAOF, TheMuso :)
[06:35] <TheMuso> Thanks.
[06:35] <TheMuso> Sparky has been again.
[06:44] <StevenK> AndyP: Looks fine.
[06:45] <AndyP> StevenK: good-o, thanks for looking at it
[06:47] <StevenK> AndyP: Successfully uploaded packages.
[06:52] <RAOF> Woho!  gst-plugins-farsight merge (bug #114444) is (finally) ready for sponsorship, I think :)
[06:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 114444 in gst-plugins-farsight "merge gst-plugins-farsight-0.12.1 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114444
[06:53] <minghua> does anyone happen to know some documentation about removing .la files and patch .pc files to use private required lib list?
[06:53] <StevenK> RAOF: Don't look at me, you reached your quota for the week yesterday.
[06:53] <StevenK> RAOF: :-P
[06:53] <RAOF> Now, to file a bug against the broken debian package!
[06:54] <RAOF> StevenK: It'll keep :)
[06:54] <TheMuso> i'LL TAKE T IF NOBODY ELSE WANTS IT.
[06:54] <TheMuso> S/TI/IT/
[06:54] <ajmitch> heh
[06:54] <ajmitch> TheMuso must *really* want it
[06:54] <TheMuso> i AM NOT FUSSED EITHER WAY.
[06:54] <RAOF> And then to file a bug against broken upstream build system!
[06:55] <ajmitch> TheMuso: caps!
[06:55] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Figured that out. Thanks.
[06:55] <TheMuso> its just that I am busy with something else, so if someone else wants it, take it, otherwise I am happy to do it.
[06:55] <ajmitch> funny comment in an email: "Seb is a good MOTU (used lot of his packages :) )  & I am sure he means well."
[06:55] <ajmitch> talking about seb128
[06:55] <LaserJock> heh
[06:56] <LaserJock> what was that in reference to?
[06:56] <ajmitch> latest email on -devel-discuss
[06:56] <LaserJock> nvm, I found it
[07:00] <minghua> are core developers considered MOTUs (if they didn't join MOTU specifically)?
[07:01] <lifeless> yes
[07:01] <StevenK> AndyP: Are you able to test that the other saods9 bug is fixed?
[07:04] <LaserJock> minghua: hmm, they aren't specifically members of ~motu anymore
[07:04] <LaserJock> but they are members of ~ubuntu-dev
[07:04] <lifeless> and ubuntu-dev is a member of motu I think you'll find
[07:04] <AndyP> StevenK: the other one?
[07:05] <Hobbsee> lifeless: what happens if Team A is a member of team B, and team B is a member of team A?
[07:06] <minghua> thanks, lifeless, LaserJock.  this team relationship always confuses me
[07:06] <minghua> still funny to hear seb128 referred as an MOTU though
[07:06] <Hobbsee> minghua: it's shirish.  what do you expect?
[07:06] <StevenK> AndyP: Lemme find the number
[07:06] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: now now
[07:07] <StevenK> AndyP: #122329
[07:07] <minghua> Hobbsee: actually I don't read his email anymore after the SI unit thread
[07:08] <Hobbsee> haha
[07:08] <Hobbsee> now there's a thought.  blocking his entire address
[07:08] <Hobbsee> but people quote him...
[07:09] <AndyP> StevenK: i'll give it a try
[07:09] <lifeless> Hobbsee: heat death of the universe
[07:10] <lifeless> Hobbsee: actually from a math persepective its easy - its just a graph cycle so you stop scanning out when you see an entity you've already looked at, and you consider a team looked at *before* you expand it.
[07:11] <Hobbsee> lifeless: riiiight
[07:11] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Now's the time to try it with ubuntumembers and kubuntu-members while all the LP devs are sleeping.
[07:11] <Hobbsee> heh
[07:11] <Hobbsee> i'd prefer not to do that
[07:12] <dholbach> good morning
[07:12] <pygi> morning dholbach 
[07:12] <Hobbsee> ScottK: mainly because i dont want any random gnomer to be able to commit
[07:12] <dholbach> hi pygi
[07:12] <TheMuso> Heya dholbach.
[07:13] <ScottK> Hobbsee: I agree.  I just thought if you were going to experiment, it'd be fun to give them a nice first thing in the morning present.
[07:13] <lifeless> ScottK: *cough*, I'd rather you didn't. manual SQL to fix things is such a nuisance.
[07:13] <lifeless> ScottK: *and*, *I'm* not sleeping.
[07:13] <dholbach> hey TheMuso
[07:13] <lifeless> :)
[07:14] <lifeless> I help lp by running the review team amongst other things; I keep meaning to write more LP code than I do, but yeah. 
[07:14] <ajmitch> not only an LP dev, one of the longest serving employees
[07:14] <ajmitch> lifeless: are you #1 or #2?
[07:14] <Hobbsee> ScottK: lifeless lives about an hour from me, i think.  so it'd be good to avoid pissing him off.
[07:14] <ajmitch> hehe
[07:14] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Understand.
[07:14] <ScottK> Good for you anyway...
[07:19] <TheMuso> haha
[07:22] <lifeless> ajmitch: depends if you count 'full time' or 'employee'
[07:22] <lifeless> ajmitch: Scott counts from 'full time', I count from 'started work' :)
[07:22] <ajmitch> right :)
[07:36] <AndyP> StevenK: that bug's still there
[07:37] <ScottK> Good night.
[07:37] <StevenK> AndyP: Woot.
[07:38] <dholbach> night ScottK
[07:39] <Hobbsee> dholbach: just hasnt been driven insane yet
[07:42] <imbrandon> moins all
[07:44] <LaserJock> hi imbrandon 
[07:45] <Hobbsee> hi imbrandon 
[07:51] <AndyP> $ make bleed
[07:51] <minghua> LaserJock: do you plan to reply to the mail to -science about Ubuntu Science Edition?  How usable is Edubuntu Live CD for him?
[07:51] <StevenK> LaserJock: What's the issue now?
[07:52] <TheMuso> imbrandon!!
[07:54] <LaserJock> StevenK: well, I wanted to add libxml2
[07:54] <LaserJock> StevenK: but I can't figure out how to get it to pick it up
[07:54] <StevenK> LaserJock: Add -lxml2 to the CFLAGS?
[07:54] <LaserJock> right, no go
[07:54] <LaserJock> it doesn't seem to like CFLAGS
[07:55] <LaserJock> I put in an echo $(CFLAGS) and it doesn't print anything
[07:55] <RAOF> LDFLAGS?
[07:55] <StevenK> Can you pastebin what it says?
[07:55] <LaserJock> in fact I commented out the whole $(CC) line and it gave the same thing
[07:56] <minghua> handmade Makefiles should die
[07:57] <LaserJock> minghua: be nice :-)
[07:58] <LaserJock> StevenK: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/27580/ has Makefile and result
[07:58] <ajmitch> hey imbrandon 
[07:58] <minghua> huh?  you are allowed to stab it, but I'm not allowed to say it should die? :-P
[07:58] <StevenK> pubchem.cc:105: error: exit was not declared in this scope
[07:58] <StevenK> LaserJock: You're missing #include <cstdlib>
[07:58] <LaserJock> minghua: well, I suppose that is hypocritical
[07:59] <StevenK> Anyway, you should return 0, not exit 0
[07:59] <LaserJock> StevenK: ok, but g++ -o pubchem `xml2-config --cflags` pubchem.cc `xml2-config --libs` worked just fine
[07:59] <LaserJock> I don't understand the difference
[07:59] <minghua> also I think LaserJock needs -I instead of -l
[08:00] <StevenK> LaserJock: Because your shell expands ``, and make doesn't.
[08:00] <LaserJock> oh
[08:00] <minghua> damn, -I and -l are almost indistinguishable in dejavu sans
[08:01] <StevenK> LaserJock: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/27581/
[08:02] <LaserJock> StevenK: hmm, same thing
[08:02] <Hobbsee> RAOF: haha.  reply regardless
[08:03] <StevenK> Ugh.
[08:03] <LaserJock> minghua: regarding Ubuntu Science Edition, yes I am planning a reply
[08:03] <LaserJock> minghua: I'm just trying to figure out how to say "Think of the kittens!!!"
[08:03] <LaserJock> ;-)
[08:03] <StevenK> Oh, I know why.
[08:04] <minghua> LaserJock: okay, I'll wait then, you definitely know more about Edubuntu than I do
[08:05] <StevenK> LaserJock: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/27582/
[08:05] <LaserJock> minghua: well, I'm not sure that Edubuntu will be sufficient
[08:05] <nixternal> yay me, release notes are 99.9% finished, until JR wakes up and adds more stuff for me to fix :)
[08:05] <LaserJock> minghua: but I'm not convinced a Science Edition will really work
[08:05] <minghua> LaserJock: I know, but I really hate distro fragmentation
[08:05] <LaserJock> there are so many different science apps for so many different fields
[08:05] <LaserJock> I *am* planning on building some metapackages for Edubuntu that might be helpful
[08:06] <minghua> and I don't believe there will be _one_ "science edition" that fits all
[08:06] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: good response @ the kubuntu thread
[08:06] <minghua> a "Biophysics edition", perhaps.  or more likely, a "Protein Folding Edition"
[08:07] <minghua> LaserJock: I agree metapackage sounds the right way to go
[08:07] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: hope so, I hate speaking for the Kubuntu folks
[08:08] <jml> I wonder what a Humanities edition would look like.
[08:08] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: forums people are just...uneducated.  and dont think outside teh forums word
[08:08] <Hobbsee> *world
[08:09] <LaserJock> StevenK: closer, but not quite
[08:09] <LaserJock> StevenK: I've got to go to bed though
[08:09] <LaserJock> I'll try to thrash around with it again tomorrow
[08:09] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: well, then it's our job to "educate" them then ;-)
[08:09] <LaserJock> minghua: yes, we'll see
[08:10] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:10] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: i have a few billion things i want to do.  that one falls to someone else.
[08:10] <minghua> BTW I just read today that there is a Ubuntu Muslim Edition
[08:10] <LaserJock> minghua: I'm more inclined to see a nice way to create custom CDs for individual departments
[08:10] <LaserJock> yes
[08:10] <StevenK> LaserJock: Right.
[08:10] <LaserJock> it's been around for a while
[08:10] <LaserJock> as well as Ubuntu Satanic Edition
[08:11] <StevenK> Ubuntu Satanic has been around a while.
[08:11] <LaserJock> I think I also heard of a Buddist or Hindu edition
[08:11] <LaserJock> I think Muslim was started before Satanic but I'm not postive
[08:11] <lifeless> add or remove
[08:12] <AndyP> ah religion, i expect there'll be a vi edition without emacs or nano at some point
[08:12] <LaserJock> right, off to bed, thanks a ton StevenK 
[08:13] <jsgotangco> put all those google apps running on linux and make default google bookmarks and you have Google OS
[08:13] <jsgotangco> :D
[08:13] <jsgotangco> (they just released google desktop for linux btw)
[08:13] <AndyP> i thought they already had a goobuntu
[08:13] <AndyP> internally
[08:20] <AndyP> hi Fujitsu 
[08:21] <dholbach> can somebody give reconstructor  ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5798 )  a second review? I gave it my OK already.
[08:27] <Fujitsu> Hi AndyP.
[08:28] <StevenK> Ha. Ha ha. Hahaha
[08:28] <StevenK> Should have bought IBM. :-P
[08:29] <AndyP> ouch
[08:30] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Can you test build and sponsor these uploads of texlive and openoffice.org? :-P
[08:30] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Hehehe. No.
[08:30] <LaserJock> minghua, Fujitsu: quick question. I got a new ubuntu-motu-science list. Should we make that the bug contact? so we can use the current ubuntu-science for discussion?
[08:30] <Fujitsu> I'm now mostly working from a screen session on the new AMD X2 at school, so it's not too bad.
[08:31] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Might as well.
[08:31] <LaserJock> or would the reverse be better?
[08:31] <minghua> yay for new list
[08:32] <Fujitsu> I personally think the list shouldn't be used for bugmail at all, and it should be sent directly to people in the team.
[08:32] <minghua> I don't know, it would be nice to have the discussion list on official server, but that means moving for everyone
[08:32] <minghua> I am indifferent on using list as bugmail contact
[08:32] <Fujitsu> But that probably is only practical if LP provides an option for people to opt-out of LP bugmail for a team... and I can't see that happening.
[08:35] <ajmitch> m/win 44
[08:37] <lifeless> indeed
[08:39] <ajmitch> time for me to go & enjoy the cold
[08:39] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: How cold is it around your place?
[08:40] <ajmitch> frosty enough
[08:40] <Fujitsu> Mmm... Sounds nice.
[08:40] <ajmitch> yeah
[08:40] <man-di_> ajmitch: you just spoofed me
[08:41] <ajmitch> ?
[08:41] <Fujitsu> Parts delivery should be 10-15 working days upon of the payment
[08:41] <Fujitsu> confirmation only. 
[08:41] <Fujitsu> Yay!
[08:41] <Fujitsu> Right over the school holidays, too.
[08:41] <man-di_> ajmitch: you wrote "frosty enough" and I thought "is this work related?" (The company I work for is called "Enough software"
[08:42] <ajmitch> oh dear
[08:42] <man-di_> note to myself: Dont highlight "enough" in all channels
[08:42] <ajmitch> no, you'd get far too many highlights
[08:42] <ajmitch> anyway, back later
[08:45] <superm1> LaserJock, when did you request your list?
[09:21] <Hobbsee> geser: *raised eyebrows*
[09:22] <Hobbsee> geser: well, as everyone knows...on the interweb, the men are men, the women are men, and the little girls are FBI agents...so you'll have to figure that one out yourself.
[10:41] <dholbach> can somebody give reconstructor  ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5798 )  a second review? I gave it my OK already.
[10:42] <TheMuso> dholbach: Ok, will look it over.
[10:43] <dholbach> gracias TheMuso
[10:43] <jussi01> good morning all
[10:44] <TheMuso> Hey jussi01.
[10:44] <dholbach> hey jussi01
[10:44] <jussi01> hi TheMuso dholbach
[10:53] <jussi01> hmmm, make install shouldnt require sudo should it?
[10:53] <jussi01> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27595/
[10:55] <minghua> jussi01: it should.  you can use fakeroot though
[10:56] <jussi01> minghua: ok, thanks :)
[10:56] <minghua> jussi01: sorry, I misunderstood
[10:56] <Ng> jussi01: make install is writing to system directories (/usr/local in this case), so it absolutely will need root to work
[10:56] <minghua> jussi01: so you are installing to /usr/local?
[10:56] <minghua> then you need real sudo
[10:57] <jussi01> minghua: yeah, I just used real sudo and it worked:)
[10:57] <jussi01> thanks
[10:57] <minghua> or add yourself to some group that can write to /usr/local
[10:59] <jussi01> :)
[11:00] <jussi01> gah, this is such an annoying program to compile...
[11:04] <geser> jussi01: apt-file or packages.ubuntu.com
[11:04] <minghua> jussi01: dpkg -S if you have it installed
[11:05] <minghua> jussi01: in this case libgtk2.0-dev
[11:05] <TheMuso>   /aw Away
[11:05] <jussi01> thank you, both of you :D
[11:11] <jussi01> hmmm... you guys must be reall sick of me... but if someones got a minut, could they help me with this? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27598/
[11:12] <Monk-e> Dammit jussi01 I'm really sick of you now!
[11:12] <Monk-e> ;)
[11:13] <minghua> wow, c# compiling error
[11:13] <minghua> not something I can help
[11:15] <jussi01> yeah, ouchies huh...
[11:16] <jussi01> maybe i should poke ajmitch about it. he was really helpful last night :D
[11:16] <jussi01> :)
[11:20] <pygi> what's up with so many warnings o.O
[11:20] <ajmitch> jussi01: hm?
[11:20] <pygi> and why mcs instead of gmcs?
[11:20] <pygi> o well
[11:20] <ajmitch> pygi: why do you assume that gmcs must be used?
[11:21] <jussi01> ajmitch: i got the one from last night to compile. but it was only a dep for this
[11:21] <pygi> ajmitch, I don't, but I'd suggest that
[11:21] <ajmitch> pygi: I don't understand why
[11:21] <jussi01> pygi: i have both installed
[11:21] <pygi> ajmitch, ah :)
[11:21] <ajmitch> unless it uses C# 2.0 libs, it doesn't need gmcs
[11:21] <pygi> true that, but ...
[11:22] <Monk-e> jussi01, perhaps it's that?
[11:23] <jussi01> ajmitch: what do you need?
[11:24] <jussi01> netsplit!!
[11:24] <pygi> hehe
[11:25] <jussi01> ajmitch: source is here http://www.ifolder.com/index.php/Download
[11:25] <ajmitch> sigh, why do I let myself get sucked into these things
[11:25] <jussi01> me hugs ajmitch
[11:26] <jussi01> gah, stupid /
[11:26] <geser> ajmitch: because you are a nice person?
[11:26] <ajmitch> geser: I'm not, you should know that
[11:26] <pygi> geser, you just stated the wrong phrase!
[11:28] <jussi01> lol
[11:29] <TheMuso> ajmitch: What have you been sucked into?
[11:29] <jussi01> TheMuso: helping me...
[11:29] <ajmitch> helping get ifolder to compile
[11:29] <TheMuso> Ah.
[11:30] <mok0> ifolder... we were looking at it last night. It's a bitch
[11:30] <ajmitch> which is a hopeless task, most days
[11:31] <jussi01> mok0: I managed to get that dep to build
[11:31] <mok0> jussi01: wow
[11:31] <jussi01> just trying to get i folder to work....
[11:31] <mok0> :-D
[11:31] <jussi01> mok0: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27598/
[11:31] <mok0> you mean, after all that hard work, it doesn't run ;-)
[11:32] <jussi01> mok0: no, it doesnt build
[11:32] <jussi01> yet
[11:34] <ajmitch> of course you can't distribute simias :)
[11:34] <mok0> jussi01: not knowing 1 bit about C#, it's hard to see what's going on
[11:34] <ajmitch> although COPYING states GPL, there are source files which state otherwise
[11:35] <mok0> jussi01: but looks like pretty sloppy programming with all those errmsgs
[11:35] <ajmitch> ugh, can't even get that far compiling simias on amd64
[11:35] <ajmitch> ../../../external/flaim/include/flaim.h:1247: error: operator new takes type size_t (long unsigned int) as first parameter
[11:36] <mok0> ajmitch: that's the kind of stuff you always meet when porting stuff to amd64
[11:36] <jussi01> ajmitch: och
[11:37] <ajmitch> one doesn't expect it of quality novell software
[11:37] <mok0> ajmitch: You said it
[11:38] <jussi01> lol
[11:38] <ajmitch> though "quality novell software" seems like an oxymoron some days
[11:38] <jussi01> ehheheehhehe
[11:38] <mok0> this is inferior of most free software projects
[11:40] <mok0> jussi01: you'll just have to patch it up. A big project, though.
[11:40] <ajmitch> hah
[11:40] <ajmitch> don't  bother
[11:40] <ajmitch> ifolder isn't that special anyway
[11:41] <mok0> sounds pretty cool, /me thinks
[11:42] <mok0> any alternatives using std. tools? rsync?
[11:42] <jussi01> ajmitch: can you recommend some thing else, cross OS, that allows me to directly share a file at a half decent speed?
[11:42] <jussi01> :(
[11:42] <mok0> rsync is usable, but doesn't have a pretty interface
[11:42] <jussi01> well if someone does, please let me know!
[11:43] <jussi01> mok0: it needs a pretty interface for my non-nerdy friends
[11:43] <mok0> apparently Suse succeded in packing it
[11:43] <pygi> jussi01, it hasit
[11:43] <pygi> it has it*
[11:43] <pygi> forgot who, but some of ubuntu folks were working on it
[11:44] <mok0> jussi01: maybe you should take a look at their .spec file to figure out what they did
[11:44] <jussi01> pygi: can it be used in winblows though?
[11:44] <pygi> jussi01, python & pygtk ... so why not?
[11:44] <pygi> (if we're talking rsync interface;P)
[11:44] <ajmitch> is unison crossplatform?
[11:45] <ajmitch> http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/
[11:45] <ajmitch> looks to be
[11:46] <mok0> unison looks cool
[11:47] <jussi01> it does... :D
[11:48] <mok0> there is a debian package for unison...
[11:49] <jussi01> mok0: where?
[11:49] <jussi01> !netsplit
[11:49] <ubotu> netsplit is when two IRC servers of the same network (like Freenode) disconnect from each other, so users on one server stop seeing users on the other. If this is happening now, just relax and enjoy the show. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsplit
[11:49] <jussi01> :P
[11:49] <mok0> google is your friend
[11:50] <mok0> I read it on unison's webpage
[11:50] <ajmitch> or you just aptitude install unison
[11:50] <mok0> gotta go, see you later
[11:50] <jussi01> heheh
[11:51] <jussi01> later mok0
[12:01] <dholbach> thanks TheMuso
[12:02] <TheMuso> dholbach: You're welcome.
[12:07] <elmargol> I have a package that uses .install files to say wich files are included. how can I exclude a file?
[12:08] <elmargol> The package uses wildcards /usr/lib/packagename*.so
[12:10] <dholbach> elmargol: either you remove it in the binary-install target from debian/tmp/usr/lib/ or you make the .install files explicit
[12:38] <white> anyone here using 915resolution?
[12:38] <white> Fujitsu: *hint* :)
[12:39] <minghua> but 915resolution is no longer needed with the new intel driver
[12:39] <white> yeah well ...
[12:39] <white> minghua: time to test the package here? http://developer.skolelinux.no/~white/debs/915resolution/
[12:39] <white> you might have to rebuild it
[12:40] <white> it is built under a sid environment
[12:40] <minghua> white: I use sid.  But what for?
[12:41] <siretart> nixternal: congrats!
[12:41] <white> minghua: to test the package?
[12:41] <minghua> white: if I already use the new intel driver, does 915resolution have any effects?
[12:42] <white> nah, but you might want to deinstall the new driver and check with 915resolution ;)
[12:42] <white> siretart: hi :) thanks for signing fuddl's key :)
[12:42] <minghua> white: Err... maybe later, I don't have my laptop at hand anyway.
[12:43] <siretart> white: hi, and sure! :)
[12:43] <white> anyone else?
[12:43] <siretart> white: in fact, I already signed him ages ago, but he seem to have forgotten to upload that signature that time
[12:43] <white> hehe
[12:49] <ajmitch> hi siretart, white 
[12:50] <siretart> ajmitch: how are you?
[12:50] <ajmitch> good, how are you?
[12:50] <siretart> returned save home from debconf7. yay :)
[12:51] <ajmitch> excellent, how was it?
[12:51] <siretart> just installed tribe-7 on my new X60s. compiz's running fine here. double-yay :)
[12:51] <siretart> debconf7 was great. really. met lots of interesting people
[12:52] <Ash-Fox> I quite like debconf1.5.13 :(
[12:53] <white> ajmitch: hi :)
[12:53] <white> ajmitch: what do you think about applying for debconf8? :)
[12:53] <white> i might give it a go
[12:55] <ajmitch> white: to talk?
[12:55] <white> well to have a great time i thought :)
[12:56] <white> and yeah we will also find a topic to talk about, if that is desired
[12:56] <ajmitch> though it's not as far next year :)
[12:56] <white> ajmitch: think about it, you could visit me first in melbourne and then we could fly to Argentinia :)
[12:56] <white> how long do you fly from melbourne to Argentinia?
[12:57] <ajmitch> about 12 hours or more
[12:57] <ajmitch> flatmate is from chile, he ended up flying to NZ from .ar
[12:57] <white> ah well nothing compared to the trip from Germany to Australia :)
[12:57] <ajmitch> yeah
[12:57] <ajmitch> or NZ->spain->NZ within a couple of weeks
[12:57] <white> . o O(which reminds me that I will fly back to Australia in 1,5 weeks)
[12:58] <ajmitch> oh, you're not back in melbourne yet?
[12:58] <white> nope, right now I am on holidays here in Germany
[12:58] <white> ajmitch: yeah it is about time that you come to Melbourne ;)
[12:59] <ajmitch> yeah, I haven't been there for nearly a year now
[12:59] <white> on the other hand I might want to travel a bit in Australia, so is it worth to see the area you are living?
[12:59] <ajmitch> going to visit NZ?
[01:00] <white> oh, i always forget that you are living in NZ
[01:00] <ajmitch> heh
[01:00] <white> well it is somewhere on my todo list (depending on the time and the money)
[01:01] <ajmitch> NZ is much closer than Argentina
[01:01] <white> :)
[01:01] <white> Argentina might be sponsored though (which is the only way I could get there :) )
[01:01] <ajmitch> true
[01:01] <ajmitch> only way I could get there, too
[01:02] <white> hmm i have to check when we have to apply though
[01:06] <ajmitch> mmm, sounds like a nice place for debconf8
[01:06] <white> jip :)
[01:06] <white> we should really keep an eye on it, but I somehow need to know soon, if I get sponsoring.
[01:07] <white> otherwise i need to book flights for Germany and other things :(
[01:07] <ajmitch> yeah, plus there's other stuff in .au in mid-july which i hope to go to, would need time off work for both
[01:07] <ajmitch> maybe a 3-4 week holiday for them :)
[01:09] <ajmitch> U$S 14 in rooms of four people (U$S 15.5 in a triple, U$S 17 in a double).
[01:09] <ajmitch> cheap accomodation :)
[01:11] <DktrKranz> \sh, hey!
[01:11] <\sh> moins DktrKranz 
[01:11] <DktrKranz> long time, how are you?
[01:12] <\sh> well, doing some kernel work for the company....dealing with opensuses build service etc. 
[01:12] <DktrKranz> i read at it
[01:13] <DktrKranz> anyway, I'm happy you're still around :)
[01:17] <ajmitch> ok, sleep time, night all
[01:17] <jussi01> night ajmitch
[01:19] <white> good night
[01:23] <DktrKranz> could you please take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5757 ? thank you
[01:31] <afflux> anyone available for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5762 ? thanks in advance...
[01:33] <pygi> nixternal, congrats
[02:04] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[02:14] <xxxxx1> hi all!
[02:33] <gnomefreak> what package holds debuild?
[02:33] <StevenK> devscripts
[02:33] <gnomefreak> hmmmmm thought i had that already
[02:33] <gnomefreak> ah ty
[02:34] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:35] <xxxxx1> hello Hobbsee 
[02:35] <Hobbsee> hiya
[02:35] <mruiz> hi all
[02:39] <Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu 
[02:40] <gnomefreak> a debdiff is concidered a patch right?
[02:40] <ScottK> gnomefreak: Yes.
[02:41] <gnomefreak> ok cool ty
[02:44] <ScottK> shawarma: ping.
[02:45] <ScottK> shawarma: ^^
[02:47] <ScottK> shawarma: The tricky part being I've seen that bug on a machine that has newaliases (just checked) so you must be right that it's something else.
[02:47] <imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/index.php/2007/06/28/google-desktop-for-ubuntu/
[02:47] <imbrandon> gtk front for slocate? hehe
[02:59] <shawarma> ScottK: I told you about the adduser call, no?
[02:59] <ScottK> You mentioned it.  I'll go look again.  I'd forgotten.
[03:05] <Ash-Fox> imbrandon, the echo line should be, sudo bash -c "echo deb http://dl.google.com/linux/deb/ stable non-free >> /etc/apt/sources.list"
[03:06] <imbrandon> Ash-Fox, whoops your right, not enough caffeine yet
[03:06] <imbrandon> thanks
[03:06] <Ash-Fox> No problem ;)
[03:11] <Ash-Fox> Wow, Google desktop managed to get my laptop upto 64c
[03:11] <Ash-Fox> It only manages 60c when running Second life
[03:12] <ScottK> shawarma: I think I got it.  The adduser bit tries to set home dir to /var/spool/clamsmtp and it doesn't exist yet.  That is clearly wrong, but I'm not sure how that is going to relate to an upgrade.  More looking around ...
[03:14] <shawarma> ScottK: The reason I suspect that command line is just the "exit 2" or whatever it says. The bug report explicitly said that the postinst script returned 2.
[03:14] <ScottK> Right.  I think that makes sense.  
[03:15] <ScottK> Non-existant home directory is the only error I get when I run it in a shell, so I'll go about fixing that and cross my fingers.
[03:19] <TheMuso> Whats the name of the firefox 3 package?
[03:19] <Hobbsee> gran-pariso or something
[03:20] <TheMuso> ok
[03:25] <RainCT> Hobbsee: is it in the repos? :o
[03:25] <StevenK> RainCT: It is, actually
[03:26] <Hobbsee> yes
[03:26] <Hobbsee> if it built
[03:27] <RainCT> but in Gutsy :(
[03:27] <StevenK> Firefox 3 is firefox-granparadiso
[03:27] <TheMuso> StevenK: yeah I was able to track it down from what Hobbsee said.
[03:28] <ShinyMonster> bah.  i knew it was close
[03:31] <TheMuso> Ok. Who needs a package reviewed/
[03:32] <RainCT> I need help correcting one :p
[03:33] <TheMuso> RainCT: Got an URL for me?
[03:33] <RainCT> let me upload
[03:33] <TheMuso> RainCT: Ok.
[03:39] <ScottK> If the postinst creates a user, then the postrm script should delete it, right?
[03:40] <StevenK> ... Debatable
[03:41] <ScottK> How about if the option is purge?
[03:41] <StevenK> Still debatable :-P
[03:41] <StevenK> What does Policy say?
[03:42] <afflux> TheMuso: me ;) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5762
[03:42] <TheMuso> afflux: Ok.
[03:42] <ScottK> minghua: Do you have a link to the archive perhaps?
[03:42] <LaserJock> minghua: hi again
[03:42] <afflux> thank you
[03:43] <minghua> ScottK: I don't even remember which list :-(
[03:43] <minghua> sorry
[03:43] <ScottK> OK.
[03:43] <minghua> hi there LaserJock
[03:47] <TheMuso> afflux: Please ensure to run lintian/linda on your source packages, as well as built debs.
[03:48] <LaserJock> minghua: ok, so I'm going to remove the list as a team contact for MOTU Science
[03:48] <RainCT> TheMuso: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5802
[03:48] <LaserJock> minghua: and let the bugmail go directly to members
[03:48] <TheMuso> RainCT: I'll see how I go. Am feeling a little tired, so I may have to leave it till tomorrow.
[03:49] <minghua> LaserJock: have a time to write an announcement?  need any help?
[03:50] <afflux> TheMuso: do you mean these lintian errors? http://paste.stgraber.org/1919
[03:51] <afflux> TheMuso: some told me I shouldn't worry about the second one. What to do with binary-arch if it's not needed?
[03:52] <TheMuso> afflux: I have put one up on revu which is from the source package.
[03:52] <TheMuso> afflux: Just put it in there.
[03:52] <afflux> okay, thank you
[03:54] <ScottK> StevenK: Policy manual is VERY silent on the issue.  The only thing I could find was debian bug #291177.
[03:54] <ubotu> Debian bug 291177 in debian-policy "[PROPOSAL]  Policy for user/groups creation/removal in package maintainer scripts" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/291177
[03:55] <TheMuso> c
[03:55] <TheMuso> ugh
[03:55] <StevenK> Hum.
[03:56] <LaserJock> minghua: I'll write something up. I want to give the ~motu-science team a little shake ;-)
[03:57] <minghua> yeah, things are rather dormant right now
[03:59] <TheMuso> RainCT: Sorry, I'll have to look tomorrow. Its just about midnight here, and I would like to get some sleep.
[03:59] <TheMuso> Night folks.
[03:59] <RainCT> TheMuso: ok, good night
[04:00] <RainCT> Well, can then someone else help me with this please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5802 . (It's just avoid that a file gets installed, but I don't know how to do it, info at the bottom)
[04:01] <ScottK> StevenK: It seems to me that if one is purging one ought to leave the system as it was found prior to installing the package, but there's no policy and lack of purging the user isn't the cause of the bug I'm hunting, so I guess I'll leave it.
[04:03] <minghua> ScottK: there are debates about what purging really means, and I remember "deleting the sql database or not when purging sql" is one of them
[04:03] <StevenK> ScottK: Sounds sensible.
[04:04] <ScottK> Well if the sql database was installed by the package when it was installed, then that would make sense.
[04:04] <ScottK> Thanks.
[04:06] <minghua> I don't know about sql databases, let's take another example
[04:06] <Adri2000> StevenK: can I merge devscripts? (you're the last uploader)
[04:06] <minghua> when installing cvs, it creates /var/lib/cvs/ (or something similar) as the repo
[04:07] <StevenK> Adri2000: I was waiting for tribe 2 to be released. I have an upload ready.
[04:07] <minghua> then people can add stuff in the repo
[04:07] <minghua> so when I purge cvs later, should it "rm -r /var/lib/cvs"?
[04:08] <ScottK> minghua: OK.  I can see that one being tricky.
[04:09] <Adri2000> StevenK: ah. I have at least 2 changes two do. I'll give you a diff
[04:09] <StevenK> Adri2000: Great, I'll happily integrate them.
[04:11] <LaserJock> that reminds me, I have a lintian merge waiting ;-)
[04:24] <Adri2000> StevenK: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/requestsync.diff
[04:24] <Adri2000> * requestsync: - Don't confirm the bug when -s (sponsorship) is passed - Giving base version as a third argument works again, thanks Kjell Braden (LP: #119313)
[04:25] <LaserJock> etank: ping
[04:28] <nixternal> imbrandon: do you like the Google desktop thing? I am somewhat interested in trying it out.
[04:28] <LaserJock> I'm avoiding it
[04:29] <LaserJock> because I'm sure if I install it then the complete Google takeover of my life will be complete
[04:29] <LaserJock> I wear their t-shirts, use their pens .. *sigh* ;-)
[04:30] <imbrandon> LaserJock, haha me too
[04:30] <norsetto> G'day, I have the usual, very interesting (yawn), question about licenses .......
[04:30] <imbrandon> nixternal, i havent used it much yes
[04:30] <imbrandon> yet*
[04:30] <nixternal> hehe
[04:31] <imbrandon> LaserJock, i have a google t on today lol
[04:31] <nixternal> it looks like it could be somewhat useful, but then again, superkaramba looks useful at time :)
[04:31] <norsetto> Can we package an application licensed with the EPL (under multiverse I guess)?
[04:32] <LaserJock> norsetto: got a link for EPL?
[04:33] <man-di_> norsetto: why not in univserse?
[04:33] <norsetto> Got this one http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html which says its not compatible with GPL
[04:33] <man-di_> norsetto: Eclipse is already in universe and is licensed under EPL
[04:33] <man-di_> norsetto: thats correct, its not GPL compatibles, but that doesnt meant its non-free
[04:34] <norsetto> OK, so the answer is that we can ... good :)
[04:34] <man-di_> norsetto: it depends on your usage of the app
[04:34] <man-di_> norsetto: when you explicitely link GPL code you are lost
[04:34] <man-di_> thats not allowed
[04:34] <norsetto> Do we need to state something, anything, particular in Debian/copyright?
[04:35] <man-di_> norsetto: just state the EPL
[04:35] <norsetto> the question is not about usage, but packaging. If we can make a package for an EPL licensed application, and distribute it (in universe)
[04:35] <man-di_> norsetto: its your job to make sure you are allowed to use all dependecies you need
[04:35] <mruiz> hi all
[04:36] <man-di_> norsetto: I meant packaging
[04:36] <man-di_> norsetto: usage is a another case
[04:36] <etank> LaserJock: whats up
[04:36] <norsetto> OK, so if the application requires GPL dependancies we can't package it !?
[04:37] <ScottK> norsetto: Dependencies are probably OK.  It's build-deps that are likely problematic.  You can't link to GPL code.
[04:38] <man-di_> norsetto: right
[04:38] <man-di_> ScottK: nope
[04:38] <ScottK> No?
[04:38] <man-di_> ScottK: build-depends and depens are important for distribution
[04:38] <etank> nixternal: the Goggle Desktop thingy is kinda cool
[04:38] <ScottK> man-di_: OK, but linking is the key issue, right?
[04:39] <man-di_> ScottK: linking and distributing
[04:39] <ScottK> OK.
[04:39] <norsetto> which means in any case we can only distribute binaries
[04:39] <man-di_> you are not allowed to distribute a combined work of GPL and EPL parts
[04:40] <man-di_> ScottK: users can use it, its up to them, but you may not distribute it this way
[04:40] <nixternal> I might have to check it out
[04:41] <ScottK> In this clamsmtp postinst I'm debugging the maintainer changed grep clamav>/dev/null to grep -q clamav>/dev/null.  It looks to me like he should have ditched >/dev/null, but leaving it is harmless.  Any opinions?
[04:41] <ScottK> nixternal: Definitely, given your love of proprietary systems.
[04:42] <nixternal> hey now, watch it!
[04:42] <nixternal> :p
[04:43] <nixternal> it is funny, because people here in Chicago get a kick out of the !nixternal thing, because they see me as this big anti-proprietary guy
[04:44] <nixternal> my clients, if they haven't switched to Linux, they have been dropped...and most have switched and I have yet to get one major trouble ticket from any of them yet
[04:44] <ScottK> Of course it's funny in Chicago.
[04:47] <nixternal> heh
[04:47] <nixternal> hrmm, it seems the latest netbeans patch is evil
[04:50] <mruiz> I got this error while I was building a package in pbuilder: "configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is required for intltool". 
[04:52] <mruiz> I suppose that libxml-parser-perl must be added as Build-depends. Any idea?
[04:54] <ScottK> mruiz: Sounds reasonable.
[05:07] <imbrandon> err ajmitch round?
[05:07] <Hobbsee> he'll be asleep
[05:59] <nixternal> why hasn't the package I uploaded yesterday shown up at all anywhere? leads me to believe I did something incorrect kind of
[05:59] <ScottK> StevenK: It is looking to me like if I'm using gpg-agent/pinentry debuild can't cope (it says user cancelled signing), but if I use debsign or dpkg-buildpackage it all works fine.  Even though it's Perl, I looked at the debuild source anyway (and then looked away to preserve my sanity).  Are you familiar enough with debuild to know if there is a likely place to focus on?
[05:59] <ScottK> nixternal: Which package?
[05:59] <Hobbsee> ScottK: he's gone to bed
[05:59] <nixternal> nautilus-wallpaper
[06:00] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Thanks.  Maybe he'll read the scrollback.
[06:00] <Hobbsee> ScottK: sounds like your stuff is botched - debsign copes fine with pinentry-qt
[06:00] <nixternal> is it because it is new and the archive admis have to look it over?
[06:00] <Hobbsee> use with -k<keyid>
[06:00] <Hobbsee> nixternal: what's the question, sorry?
[06:01] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Yes.  Debsign is fine, it's just debuild.
[06:01] <Hobbsee> ScottK: debuild calls debsign.
[06:01] <nixternal> just don't see the package I uploaded yesterday yet..it is new
[06:01] <Hobbsee> you can use -k<keyid> with debuild too
[06:01] <ScottK> Understand.  Yes.  That also fails.
[06:01] <Hobbsee> nixternal: is it in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?batch=500 ?
[06:01] <Hobbsee> ScottK: odd.
[06:01] <Hobbsee> ScottK: sounds like a setup problem
[06:02] <ScottK> nixternal: I see it in the NEW queue
[06:02] <nixternal> I do too...OK
[06:02] <nixternal> I overlooked it before
[06:02] <ScottK> That's where it should be.
[06:03] <LaserJock> minghua: list situation seem reasonable to you?
[06:04] <ScottK> Hobbsee: OK, but except for adding use-agent to gpg.conf, I haven't changed any setups related to gpg or to debuild.
[06:04] <minghua> LaserJock: sure, I prefer official list.  how many subscribers have you migrated?
[06:04] <LaserJock> 30
[06:04] <minghua> not bad, quite a small number IMHO
[06:04] <LaserJock> well, I sent invitations to 30, got 3-4 done already
[06:04] <LaserJock> it is, I think a lot because of all the bugmail we got
[06:05] <LaserJock> who wants to wade through all that crap ;-)
[06:05] <nixternal> LaserJock: you do of course
[06:05] <minghua> I took the opportunity  to unify the addresses I use to subscribe lists
[06:05] <LaserJock> well sure, but already get so much that 20 more/day isn't too much ;-)
[06:06] <minghua> LaserJock: I at least read all the titles of the bugmails :-)
[06:06] <LaserJock> the reason I had the bugmail sent to the list to start with was because it was virtually impossible to sort before
[06:06] <minghua> yeah, I remember those days
[06:06] <LaserJock> but now that I got kiko to add in a email header and a footer to the bugmails it *should* be easy to sort for everyone
[06:07] <Hobbsee> ScottK: hrm.  did you have the link to which agent it was?
[06:08] <Hobbsee> ScottK: is the contents of ~/.gnupg/gpg-agent.conf...
[06:08] <Hobbsee> pinentry-program /usr/bin/pinentry-qt
[06:08] <Hobbsee> no-grab
[06:08] <Hobbsee> default-cache-ttl 600
[06:08] <Hobbsee> ?
[06:09] <ScottK> I do not have all that as I'm trying to find the minumum stuff needed for S/MIME.  Looking at the phrase "no-grab" I think I just added some things to the list of "Minimum".
[06:09] <ScottK> Thanks.
[06:10] <Hobbsee> ScottK: that's part of the gpg agent config - to say *which* agent you want touse
[06:11] <ScottK> Right.  I only have pinentry-qt installed and it was found without that, but I expect I'll need to add it.  Back in a sec.
[06:15] <Hobbsee> :)
[06:20] <jussi01> hei all, with cdbs, do i add DEB_SRCDIR = $(CURDIR)/src before or after the "include" bits ?
[06:20] <Hobbsee> after, i think
[06:20] <jussi01> ok, thanks :)
[06:24] <ScottK-laptop> Hobbsee: Still no luck with debuild.
[06:24] <ScottK-laptop> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27640/
[06:25] <Hobbsee> ScottK-laptop: that's bizarre!
[06:26] <ScottK-laptop> Agreed.
[06:26] <ScottK-laptop> Before I go start leaning on people to use agent by default, I want to make sure it doesn't cause problems.
[06:26] <Hobbsee> indeed.
[06:28] <jussi01> hmmm, can i change cdbs at all to use ./config instead of ./configure ?
[06:28] <jussi01> or do i need to use debhelper?
[06:28] <Hobbsee> ScottK-laptop: well, i could call him.
[06:29] <ScottK> Hobbsee: It's probably not that urgent.  
[06:29] <Hobbsee> but i cant guarentee that a) he'd answer.  b) he would be impressed or c) that his wife would be impressed
[06:30] <jussi01> good luck LaserJock
[06:30] <jussi01> :)
[06:31] <jussi01> lol ScottK
[06:32] <Hobbsee> heh
[06:32] <Hobbsee> ScottK: his wife should recognise who i am...but yeah.  i wouldnt risk it.
[06:32] <Hobbsee> yay, LaserJock!
[06:32] <ScottK> Reminds me of when I was growing up there was a man with the same first and last name as my father who was apparently a frequent love 'em and leave 'em type.  Also had a unlisted phone number.  So when girls would try to find him, they'd sometimes call my Dad.  My Mom did NOT appreciate him getting calls from cute young things in the middle of the night even though she knew they had the wrong person.
[06:32] <LaserJock> ScottK: nah, she'd be like "the Ubuntu freaks *again* ?"
[06:32] <Hobbsee> haha
[06:34] <ScottK> It also turned out that Gary Kitterman had a father with the same first name as my Grandfather.  It wasn't funny the day we got a call saying that Don Kitterman (my Grandfather's name) had died.
[06:34] <ScottK> Really odd since Kitterman is a very rare name.
[06:34] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Does dpkg-buildpackage call debsign too?
[06:35] <Hobbsee> yes
[06:35] <Hobbsee> debuild is only a wrapper around dpkg-buildpackag
[06:35] <Hobbsee> e
[06:35] <LaserJock> wow, it works
[06:36] <Hobbsee> :D
[06:36] <ScottK> OK.  Then I'll fiddle with this and see if I can replicate it somehow...
[06:36] <LaserJock> if I remember right, debuild = dpkg-buildpackage -r fakeroot + lintian
[06:37] <LaserJock> well, my first upload was a sponsorship
[06:37] <LaserJock> so I could blame it on somebody else if it killed everybodies computer
[06:37] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:45] <tobiasschulz> MOTUs: can someone check jeliza ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5791 ) please?
[06:50] <jussi01> [19:28]  <jussi01> hmmm, can i change cdbs at all to use ./config instead of ./configure ?
[06:50] <jussi01> [19:28]  <jussi01> or do i need to use debhelper?
[06:52] <azeem> jussi01: there's a cdbs variable you can override I think
[06:53] <Toadstool> jussi01: DEB_CONFIGURE_SCRIPT = $(CURDIR)/$(DEB_SRCDIR)/config
[06:53] <Toadstool> g'morning everybody
[06:55] <jussi01> thanks Toadstool. 
[06:57] <Toadstool> jussi01: CDBS doc: grep -rin $(random_word) /usr/share/cdbs/* :)
[06:57] <jussi01> Toadstool: ?
[06:58] <Toadstool> nevermind
[06:58] <jussi01> hehe..
[06:58] <tobiasschulz> MOTUs: can a MOTU please check jeliza ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5791 )?
[06:58] <jussi01> Toadstool: got to remember im quite new...
[06:58] <jussi01> :)
[06:58] <ivoks> i'm looking at all this 'index search tools'
[06:59] <ivoks> they all do scheduled indexing
[06:59] <ivoks> why? linux has inotify; it is trivial to create tool which would look at dir and have a record of a file which is created at that moment
[07:00] <ivoks> pyinotify+sqlite and that's it
[07:00] <ivoks> no need for periodic indexing
[07:00] <ivoks> any toughts?
[07:03] <Toadstool> ivoks: Beagle uses inotify if it is available, afaik
[07:03] <ivoks> it does?
[07:04] <ivoks> that's great then
[07:04] <Toadstool> http://beagle-project.org/Inotify_Kernel
[07:05] <Toadstool> heh
[07:06] <ivoks> i really tought i have brilliant idea :)
[07:07] <LaserJock> just so everybody know, I *hate* UUIDs
[07:07] <jussi01> lol
[07:07] <Toadstool> who doesn't?
[07:07] <ivoks> UUIDs are soooooo great, LaserJock be quiet :)
[07:08] <LaserJock> I made a disasterous mistake and let Fedora7 format my swap partition
[07:08] <LaserJock> and now I can't for the life of me get it back
[07:08] <LaserJock> I somehow don't have the right recipe
[07:08] <jussi01> lol
[07:09] <ivoks> LaserJock: vol_id <partition>?
[07:09] <tsmithe> hello all
[07:09] <jussi01> tsmithe: !
[07:09] <tsmithe> hi jussi01 
[07:09] <LaserJock> ivoks: yes I do that, but it seems to change every time I reboot
[07:09] <ivoks> that happend to me once
[07:10] <LaserJock> so I can get it to work, but then when I reboot it's toast again
[07:10] <ivoks> initrd
[07:10] <LaserJock> it's really annoying because it's on my laptop so I can't hibernate
[07:10] <LaserJock> ohhh, do I need to recreate my initrd?
[07:10] <ivoks> did you fix initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume?
[07:11] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't think so
[07:11] <ivoks> check it out :)
[07:12] <ivoks> also, /etc/blkid.tab - but i this one is automaticaly generated
[07:12] <ivoks> s/i/i think/
[07:13] <LaserJock> hmm, I think the conf.d/resume is the key
[07:13] <LaserJock> I remember fixing this once before
[07:20] <ScottK-laptop> Hobbsee: I'm ready to blame debuild.  Debuild calls debsign, but dpkg-buildpackage doesn't.  It calls gnupg directly.
[07:20] <Hobbsee> fair enough
[07:20] <Hobbsee> i dont remember which my scripts use - i think dpkg-buildpackage
[07:22] <jussi01> hmmm, can someone tell me where im going wrong? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27646/ http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27649/
[07:24] <Hobbsee> jussi01: i'd try s/ DEB_CONFIGURE_SCRIPT = $(CURDIR)/$(DEB_SRCDIR)/config/ DEB_CONFIGURE_SCRIPT = $(DEB_SRCDIR)/config
[07:25] <jussi01> Hobbsee: thanks
[07:25] <Hobbsee> no problem
[07:29] <Toadstool> jussi01: why do you override DEB_SRCDIR?
[07:30] <Toadstool> jussi01: it screws up your DEB_CONFIGURE_SCRIPT override since it makes it expand to DEB_CONFIGURE_SCRIPT = $(CURDIR)/$(CURDIR)/src
[07:30] <Toadstool> +/config
[07:31] <jussi01> Toadstool: oh... well i need to caues the source is in /src
[07:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 78165 in devscripts "debuild fails to use seahorse-agent" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78165
[07:33] <Toadstool> jussi01: then use DEB_SRCDIR = src, I'd say
[07:34] <jussi01> Toadstool: ok, i took that line from the cdbs docs...
[07:36] <imbrandon> drive by irc spam ( hey i dont do it often ) , digg me up please http://digg.com/linux_unix/NATIVE_Google_Desktop_for_Ubuntu_with_Debs_and_Screenshot
[07:38] <Treenaks> imbrandon: I still don't like the adding of a key through wget/http ;)
[07:38] <mruiz> hi all
[07:46] <mruiz> I was building a package in pbuilder and I had problems while patches were applying: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27650/ 
[07:46] <tobiasschulz> MOTUs: can a MOTU please check jeliza ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5791 )?
[07:47] <ScottK> mruiz: That means the patch wouldn't apply.  You need to either fix it or update it.
[07:50] <mruiz> ScottK, I did it... my new patch (updated to use it with new upstream version) : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27651/
[07:51] <ScottK> StevenK: If you are looking at updating devscripts, please have a look at Bug #78165 when you do....
[07:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 78165 in devscripts "debuild fails to use seahorse-agent or gpg-agent" [Unknown,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78165
[07:52] <vijay2000> Hi all can anyody solve this error for me plz http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27652/
[07:53] <ScottK> err Bug #122863 even
[07:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 122863 in texlive-bin "package texlive-base-bin 2007-11 failed to install/upgrade: post-installation script spawns thousands of processes" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122863
[07:55] <vijay2000> Hi all can anyody solve this error for me plz http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27652/
[07:57] <ivoks> source of pam-pgsql should depend on libpq-dev
[07:57] <ivoks> not postgresql-dev
[07:58] <ivoks> as it is in feisty
[07:59] <vijay2000> so should i replace postgresql-dev with libpq-dev in the build-depends
[07:59] <ScottK> You can use libpq-dev | postgresql-dev if you are worried about backporting the package.
[07:59] <vijay2000> ok
[07:59] <ivoks> right
[08:00] <vijay2000> but i already added libpq-dev along with postgresql-dev 
[08:00] <ivoks> not both
[08:00] <vijay2000> Build-Depends: libpam0g-dev, postgresql-dev, debhelper (>= 4.0), libmhash-dev,libpq-dev
[08:00] <vijay2000> oh ok 
[08:00] <ivoks> both can't work, since there is no postgresql-dev
[08:00] <ScottK> The "|" is the key.
[08:00] <ivoks> | means this or that
[08:00] <vijay2000> oh i didnt get that 
[08:01] <ivoks> low battery - bye :)
[08:01] <ScottK> Bye ivoks
[08:02] <vijay2000> ivoks: bye and thanks
[08:02] <geser> vijay2000: you can replace postgresql-dev with libpq-dev as postgresql-dev is since breezy a transitional package
[08:03] <mruiz> ScottK, I updated the patch because the old one didn't work :-(
[08:03] <ScottK> mruiz: What patching system does the package use?
[08:07] <jussi01> hmmm, if its looking for qmake, which package do i need? qt3-dev-tools?
[08:10] <vijay2000> hi all the new source code i downloaded for pgsql is libpam-pgsql_0.6.3.orig.tar.bz2 .now this is not getting uploaded when i use dput 
[08:10] <vijay2000> can i rename the file to libpam-pgsql_0.6.3.orig.tar.gz
[08:11] <zul> mmmm...i love crack aka ubuntuforums
[08:11] <geser> vijay2000: you have to bunzip2 and gzip it
[08:11] <vijay2000> can u give me the syntax ?
[08:12] <minghua> !info libpam-pgsql gutsy
[08:12] <SlimG2> I've buildt my own repos but are having problem when aptitude installing from it, It fails to fetch one specific .deb complaining about "wrong size", I've checked that the .deb filesize and the "Size: <filesize>" in the "Packages" file match, what could be wrong?
[08:12] <ubotu> libpam-pgsql: PAM module to authenticate using a PostgreSQL database. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.5.2-9ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 15 kB, installed size 80 kB
[08:13] <geser> vijay2000: bunzip2 libpam-pgsql_0.6.3.orig.tar.bz2 && gzip libpam-pgsql_0.6.3.orig.tar
[08:13] <geser> renaming doesn't work as a tar.bz2 is not a tar.gz
[08:13] <vijay2000> i'm trying to upgrade libpam-pgsql from 0.5.2-9 to 0.6.3
[08:14] <mruiz> ScottK, no patching system: is only one patch... diff -Nurp old new > 01.diff and then I moved it to debian/patches
[08:15] <ScottK> mruiz: Then you need a patching system to install the patch.
[08:15] <mruiz> ScottK, another question: is the same : foo.patch and foo.diff ?
[08:16] <ScottK> In general terms yes.
[08:16] <ScottK> If you look in the MOTU section of the wiki there is a good MOTU School session on patching systems.  I'd suggest you go have a look.
[08:17] <mruiz> I'm reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
[08:27] <jussi01> *cough* help? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27654/ 
[08:29] <DktrKranz> jussi01, try with libqt4-dev
[08:30] <DktrKranz> Build-Depends
[08:30] <mruiz> ScottK, ... the package is using CDBS, then I have to using cdbs-edit-patch...
[08:30] <LaserJock> nixternal: hehe, so I'm guessing you tried Google Desktop ;-)
[08:30] <jussi01> DktrKranz: thanks
[08:30] <nixternal> yup. it is nice and not-so-nice at the same time
[08:31] <DktrKranz> jussi01, I'm not a KDE expert, but shouldn't use qt4?
[08:31] <ScottK> mruiz: Yes
[08:31] <DktrKranz> I see you use qt3
[08:32] <jussi01> DktrKranz: maybe, what package should I have?
[08:32] <DktrKranz> try with libqt4-dev
[08:33] <DktrKranz> if you see more errors
[08:33] <DktrKranz> you can count on packages.ubuntu.com
[08:33] <DktrKranz> just use "Search the contents of packages" :)
[08:36] <DktrKranz> anyone to look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5757?
[08:36] <vijay2000> hi 
[08:37] <vijay2000> i have a file libpam-pgsql_0.6.3.orig.tar.gz and the upstream version file is pam-pgsql_0.6.3-0ubuntu1.tar.gz. now i am not getting a.diff file being generated
[08:38] <vijay2000> is it because one file is of the filename libpam and the other is of the name pam 
[08:38] <RainCT> vijay2000: you have to uncompress them to create the diff
[08:38] <vijay2000> i dont get you 
[08:38] <jussi01> DktrKranz: better... but still... http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27655/
[08:39] <RainCT> vijay2000: how are you trying to create the diff?
[08:39] <DktrKranz> jussi01, I fear you should use qt3
[08:39] <vijay2000> well it will get created when you do a debuild which didnt get created in this case 
[08:40] <geser> vijay2000: mv libpam-pgsql_0.6.3.orig.tar.gz pam-pgsql_0.6.3.orig.tar.gz
[08:40] <DktrKranz> jussi01, restore previous build-deps and add libqt3-headers
[08:40] <geser> the source pacakge name is pam-pgsql
[08:40] <vijay2000> i just have to rename it 
[08:40] <vijay2000> got it 
[08:45] <tobiasschulz> MOTUs: can somebody please check jeliza ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5791 )?
[08:48] <RainCT> is the Makefile.in file generated on ./configure or does it contain information to create the Makefile?
[08:49] <Toadstool> it is used by ./configure to generate Makefile
[08:49] <RainCT> ok thanks
[08:54] <sistpoty> hi folks
[08:57] <geser> Hi sistpoty
[08:57] <sistpoty> hi geser
[08:58] <LaserJock> sistpoty!!!
[08:58] <sistpoty> hi LaserJock
[08:58] <jussi01> DktrKranz: Im getting the same errors a the first time. any other ideas?
[09:05] <DktrKranz> jussi01, sorry but my knowledge of KDE is very limited :(
[09:05] <DktrKranz> I hoped it could go
[09:05] <jussi01> DktrKranz: yeah. fair enough. I expect im just missing something somewhere. just got to figure out what...
[09:06] <LaserJock> ah man, can't the make the GPL *shorter* ?
[09:06] <LaserJock> I hate having to read these things, it always makes me feel like I'm missing something
[09:06] <DktrKranz> jussi01, try searching for packages which include such headers
[09:06] <LaserJock> if the license is smarter than I am I get a little nervious :-)
[09:08] <highvoltage> LaserJock: what's up?
[09:08] <LaserJock> trying to read GPLv3
[09:09] <LaserJock> your blog post sent me down a rabbit trail
[09:09] <LaserJock> I wanted a nice diff so I can see just what they are changing
[09:10] <DktrKranz> LaserJock, IIRC drafts contains insertionss and deletions from older versions
[09:11] <LaserJock> overall I think this thing is way to big
[09:11] <LaserJock> I suppose legally they've got a lot of work to do
[09:11] <zul> LaserJock: do you want a gplv3 for dummies with amusing cartoons?
[09:11] <LaserJock> but how are people supposed to reasonably know what it all means
[09:11] <LaserJock> if I release code under a license I want to be darn sure I know what it means
[09:12] <LaserJock> and I kinda feel like GPL is sort of beyond that point
[09:12] <LaserJock> zul: yes
[09:12] <LaserJock> actually, I like the way Creative Commons does it
[09:12] <LaserJock> where they have like little paragraph blocks that give you the plain english version
[09:12] <LaserJock> then you click on the link to get the full legalese
[09:14] <yosch> LaserJock: they also have visual representations of the working model of the license: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/GPL/2.0/
[09:14] <yosch> which is quite nice
[09:14] <LaserJock> yeah, exactly
[09:15] <RainCT> yeah! got the damn package validating :)
[09:15] <yosch> LaserJock: it's been done for other licenses too: http://scripts.sil.org/OFL&_sc=1#9ccf5052
[09:15] <yosch> but it only represent the overall model, it cannot (should not) replace the legalese
[09:16] <RainCT> I've to do some changes on Makefile.am, Makefile.in and configure. what do you recommend me, dpatch?
[09:18] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I think it would've been nice if they had creative-commons-like summaries
[09:19] <LaserJock> I look at the GPLv3 and I think to myself "OK, now what does any of this mean for me", "What are the implications?"
[09:20] <sacater> hey me and a friend are trying to make a new version of ubuntu (senubuntu, http://launchpad.net/senubuntu), can we get a repo space or something for packages
[09:21] <luisbg> sacater, what's senubuntu about?
[09:22] <peanutb> Senior Ubuntu
[09:22] <peanutb> (ubuntu for Seniors)
[09:22] <LaserJock> sacater: according to the new Canonical trademark policy they don't want you using that naming scheme
[09:22] <RainCT> luisbg: "    This project is a form of Ubuntu which is aimed to help those who are interested in Linux but may have some sort of impairment"
[09:22] <LaserJock> sacater: rather Ubuntu <insert whatever> Remix
[09:24] <LaserJock> sacater: and you would have to talk Launchpad folks, right now I don't think you can get repo space
[09:24] <sacater> eeep
[09:24] <sacater> eeeep
[09:25] <sacater> then what can we call it
[09:25] <LaserJock> I'll leave you to figure that out
[09:25] <LaserJock> Ubuntu Accessability Remix ?
[09:25] <sacater> so can we have ubuntu in the name anywhere?
[09:26] <sacater> Ubuntu Senior Edition?
[09:26] <sacater> Impaired Edition?
[09:26] <mok0> Senilubuntu
[09:27] <_MMA_> sacater: Im sorry man. I gotta ask why? Ill go to PM if you want.
[09:27] <sacater> go to #sacater
[09:27] <sacater> mok0: :P
[09:27] <LaserJock> sacater: please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DraftTrademarkPolicy2007
[09:27] <LaserJock> sacater: and talk to the accessability team
[09:27] <sacater> k#
[09:32] <sacater> sigh
[09:32] <sacater> that is a VERY big kick to the nuts
[09:34] <mok0> sacater: why not create a virtual package that pulls in everything "extra" you want for your edition, and campaign for that, instead of a completely new distro?
[09:34] <sacater> mok0: like a meta-package
[09:34] <mok0> I think Ubuntu Christian Edition is ridiculous
[09:34] <mok0> sacater: yes
[09:35] <mok0> Next will be Ubuntu Islamic Edition
[09:35] <mok0> Ubuntu Buddist
[09:35] <mok0> etc
[09:35] <jussi01> mok0: why not?
[09:35] <_MMA_> mok0: Ubuntu Islamic Edition Is coming. As well as "Jewbuntu".
[09:35] <mok0> I just think it's stupide
[09:36] <mok0> s/e//
[09:36] <troy_s> mok0: If it is stupid, the nature of evolution will kill it.  
[09:36] <troy_s> mok0: No need to get panties in a twist.
[09:36] <mok0> Yup
[09:36] <peanutb> did you guys see ubuntu Satanic Edition?
[09:36] <jussi01> lol
[09:36] <mok0> Ubuntu Queer
[09:36] <_MMA_> peanutb: Best distro ever.
[09:36] <LaserJock> hang on guys
[09:36] <peanutb> I know. Im running it
[09:36] <sacater> gothbuntu
[09:36] <mok0> Pwnbuntu
[09:37] <LaserJock> let's try to keep it civil
[09:37] <sacater> LaserJock: i am :P
[09:37] <AndyP> +1
[09:37] <mok0> sorry, couldn't resist :-)
[09:37] <_MMA_> sacater: So are you gonna answer in your channel or continue here?
[09:37] <jussi01> yeah
[09:37] <LaserJock> people are free to do what they want with Free software, that's kinda the point
[09:37] <peanutb> how about a Customized cd with the accessibility packages already installed (by way of the metapackage
[09:38] <mok0> Like an Ubuntu add-on -- I like that 
[09:38] <sacater> we dibs it!
[09:38] <_MMA_> LaserJock: Yes. I just worry about "brain-drain".
[09:39] <mok0> Isn't that what Canonical call "a remix"?
[09:39] <LaserJock> _MMA_: I wouldn't really worry about that, tbh
[09:39] <AndyP> _MMA_: good brains tend to flock to each other
[09:39] <ajmitch> morning
[09:39] <_MMA_> LaserJock: Is that a shot at sacater? (kidding)
[09:39] <LaserJock> I think in *general* we can enourage people to only create derivatives where there seems to be necessity and demand
[09:39] <RainCT> can build have two targets (like  build: patch build-stamp) ?
[09:39] <troy_s> AndyP: As do not so good brains.  Wait, I mean opposites attract... wait... I need another cliche.
[09:40] <AndyP> ajmitch: morning
[09:40] <LaserJock> RainCT: yes
[09:40] <peanutb> so Ubuntu CE is necessary?
[09:40] <peanutb> and demanded?
[09:40] <zul> hey ajmitch
[09:40] <Q-FUNK> any pulseaudio expert here? ;)
[09:41] <RainCT> LaserJock: thx
[09:41] <luisbg> lol
[09:41] <SlimG2> !ask | Q-FUNK
[09:41] <ubotu> Q-FUNK: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
[09:41] <LaserJock> peanutb: yes it is
[09:42] <LaserJock> at least in enough supply to make lots of people use it
[09:42] <Q-FUNK> very well.  how do I stop PA from producing choppy sound?  it blurps all the time while playing ogg's from rhythmbox
[09:42] <peanutb> then how is the supply of old people much different?
[09:42] <LaserJock> well, that's different
[09:43] <LaserJock> Ubuntu's default installtion has accessibility software in it
[09:43] <_MMA_> Q-FUNK: crimsun is a guy to ask if he's not too busy. (which is often the case)
[09:43] <peanutb> LaserJock, such as?
[09:43] <sacater> LaserJock: we dont think it has enough
[09:43] <Q-FUNK> _MMA_: ah, he does pa too? I knew about alsa, but not pa.
[09:43] <LaserJock> sacater: then work on it
[09:44] <LaserJock> peanutb: such as what? accesibilty software?
[09:44] <sacater> LaserJock: that is precisely what we want to do!
[09:44] <LaserJock> sacater: but that doesn't help Ubuntu as a whole
[09:44] <peanutb> LaserJock, OSK
[09:44] <peanutb> Magnifier
[09:44] <sacater> LaserJock: it can help the elderly or impaired
[09:44] <troy_s> sacater your needs would be better met working with the most incredible Henrik Omma than trying to do work alone.
[09:44] <LaserJock> why not work with the accesibilty team to make Ubuntu work for those people?
[09:44] <troy_s> sacater: He has not only the ears and eyes of Canonical, but he also is perhaps one of the most industrious folks I have met.
[09:45] <LaserJock> there are several people within Ubuntu interested in accesibilty
[09:45] <_MMA_> LaserJock: "sacater: well it seems a little dead IMHO"
[09:45] <LaserJock> heck, we have several Summer of Code projects for accesibilty
[09:45] <sacater> whoa
[09:45] <troy_s> sacater: The problem with Accessibility is that it doesn't come with the wonderful 'glory' of the more mainstream elements, and as such, the team is only as strong as the few dedicated individuals that it currently has to push things forwards.
[09:45] <sacater> i based that on what peanutb told me :P
[09:46] <peanutb> I based that on what i saw on the main page.
[09:46] <ajmitch> accessibility is something that *should* be in the core distro, not just in a specialised version
[09:46] <troy_s> Well it is.
[09:46] <peanutb> Yes. But it isint
[09:47] <LaserJock> sure it is
[09:47] <peanutb> whats the OSK then?
[09:47] <peanutb> wheres the magnifier
[09:47] <LaserJock> it certainly could be better
[09:47] <LaserJock> but there's definately been work
[09:47] <sacater> which is what we were aiming to do
[09:47] <ajmitch> if you feel that it's not good enough, please don't split off into yet another little project
[09:47] <LaserJock> sacater: no, that is not what you are aiming for
[09:48] <LaserJock> you are aiming to make a derivative
[09:48] <LaserJock> and making work that *should* be done in Ubuntu ... not
[09:48] <LaserJock> if accessibility is *that* important it should be in Ubuntu proper
[09:48] <sacater> but it isnt...
[09:49] <AndyP> .e points at the System->Preferences->Accessibility menu... magnifier and OSK seem to be there
[09:49] <sacater> not in xubuntu it isnt :P
[09:49] <AndyP> s/./\/m/
[09:49] <AndyP> sacater: so get on board, make things better :)
[09:50] <troy_s> sacater: Start by sending email to Henrik and see what you can do.
[09:50] <LaserJock> if you would care to do your homework, Ubuntu ships 7 apps specificly for accessibilty
[09:51] <peanutb> 7.04? since when?
[09:51] <sacater> LaserJock: does it ship dasher, on-screen keyboard (good one), text reader, etc
[09:51] <troy_s> sacater: Orca yes.
[09:51] <sacater> Dasher*
[09:51] <LaserJock> gnome-accessibility-themes gnome-mag gnome-orca onboard brltty brltty-x11 xcursor-themes and espeak
[09:51] <LaserJock> now, you may have reasons to add/change the list
[09:51] <_MMA_> sacater: But whats "etc..." Does a couple more apps warrant a remix? Flavor? Whatever..
[09:52] <LaserJock> but obviously work is being done
[09:52] <LaserJock> so please try to help existing effort
[09:52] <sacater> the dream is lost...
[09:53] <shawarma> sacater: What was it?
[09:53] <sacater> to make a special accessibility edition for ubuntu
[09:53] <sacater> senior ubuntu
[09:53] <sacater> senubuntu
[09:53] <shawarma> Ah.
[09:53] <LaserJock> sacater: no, the dream is not lost
[09:54] <ajmitch> even that name... it just doesn't sound right
[09:54] <LaserJock> the dream is to make Ubuntu better for people with imparments, right?
[09:54] <LaserJock> then nothing is lost
[09:54] <sacater> hmm
[09:54] <sacater> i s'pose
[09:54] <LaserJock> rather refocused
[09:55] <praveen> hi does any one know how to change the logo next to Applications menu in the top panel ?
[09:56] <_MMA_> praveen: Please see #ubuntu, #ubuntuforums or search the forums.
[09:57] <praveen> k thnk u
[09:59] <xxxxx1> bye all
[09:59] <sacater> peanutb: where are ya
[09:59] <peanutb> Im trying to call i
[09:59] <peanutb> U
[09:59] <_MMA_> sacater: Talk to TheMuso. I know he has done a bit with those packages.
[10:00] <sacater> peanutb: you arent even online!
[10:00] <peanutb> on what? MSN?
[10:00] <sacater> no
[10:00] <sacater> gizmo
[10:00] <peanutb> im on right now
[10:01] <sacater> not according to this thingamy
[10:01] <peanutb> I just get your voice mail
[10:01] <sacater> sacater phone home
[10:01] <sacater> i think..
[10:04] <RainCT> Hey some MOTU please advocate Open Invaders (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5807, i386 only). (Source and Binary validate with both lintian and linda.)
[10:07] <AndyP> RainCT: i don't think you need XSBC-Original-Maintainer with a new package, just if you're changing one with a debian revision
[10:08] <tsmithe> AndyP, i'm pretty sure you do :) unless you're using an @ubuntu.com address for the Maintainer
[10:08] <tsmithe> also, /me joins the queue for those wanting reviews
[10:08] <tsmithe> could someone take a look at *ubuntustudio* on revu, please?
[10:09] <mok0> AndyP: New policy
[10:09] <AndyP> tsmithe: really? that seems strange... how can there be an original maintainer if it's the first time it's been packaged?
[10:10] <tsmithe> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField explains better than i can
[10:10] <mok0> AndyP: It was mentionen on the ML a couple of weeks ago
[10:10] <mok0> mentioned
[10:10] <AndyP> tsmithe: that page seems to hold up my argument...
[10:11] <mok0> AndyP: The MOTUs require it now
[10:11] <ScottK> No, Ubuntu requires it now.  It's for Main and Universe both.
[10:11] <AndyP> "If the Maintainer field contains an ubuntu.com email address, no modifications are made" and "If the Maintainer field is modified, the old value will be saved in a field named XSBC-Original-Maintainer" ... in this case it's a new package so the maintainer field hasn't been modified and there's no "old value" because it's a new packaging
[10:12] <ScottK> AndyP: You can put yourself in there.
[10:13] <ScottK> Maintainer MUST be an ubuntu.com (or kubuntu.org) address for an Ubuntu/Kubuntu package.
[10:14] <AndyP> ScottK: yep it is... ubuntu motu devs in this case... but i just can't understand why you'd add XSBC-Original-Maintainer to a newly packaged package
[10:15] <tsmithe> just to show that you are the maintainer but you don't have an @ubuntu.com address, if that is the case
[10:15] <sistpoty> in case you don't have an @ubuntu address, I'd rather use the uploaders field, but that's only my opinion
[10:15] <ScottK> Because that's not what they were thinking about when they wrote the devscripts updates?
[10:15] <tsmithe> ScottK, hehe
[10:15] <AndyP> sistpoty: the uploaders field sounds more logical, yes
[10:16] <AndyP> but we don't use that
[10:16] <AndyP> tsmithe: this isn't in the policy :)
[10:16] <AndyP> (this = what to do with new packages)
[10:16] <tsmithe> well, i don't care what noun you use.
[10:16] <tsmithe> it's part of the regulations for new packages, if you so wish
[10:17] <AndyP> tsmithe: i mean it's not in those regulations (assuming you're talking about the wiki page mentioned above)
[10:18] <tsmithe> well, i don't know. the page is unclear. however, it is true you need an @ubuntu address as maintainer, and you can put XSBC-Original-Maintainer if you want to be more visible.
[10:18] <tsmithe> that's my interpretation, at least
[10:19] <AndyP> tsmithe: ok, i'll agree with you that it's unclear and end the debate there :)
[10:21] <tsmithe> :)
[10:23] <sistpoty> hm... it would be interesting to find out what packages were originally created for ubuntu. however neither the original-maint field nor using uploaders can be used for this
[10:24] <AndyP> sistpoty: would you need to search for -0ubuntuN revisions?
[10:25] <sistpoty> AndyP: no, in case an ubuntu package was taken as origin for a then maintained debian package (e.g. glest, though not yet released in debian iirc)
[10:25] <AndyP> ah i see what you mean
[10:27] <sistpoty> (also, it would be good to have it somehow indicated in the control file, then it would be much easier to find out=
[10:29] <LaserJock> I don't see why people would have to use XSBC-Original-Maintainer for packages created in Ubuntu
[10:29] <LaserJock> shouldn't Uploaders work just fine?
[10:30] <ScottK> Makes sense to me.
[10:34] <RainCT> AndyP: are you still looking at it? :)
[10:35] <ajmitch> maybe #kubuntu-devel would know :)
[10:36] <AndyP> RainCT: just went to get a cup of tea, i'll cast my eye over it again if you want (i'm not a MOTU though)
[10:36] <jussi01> ajmitch: was that for me? 
[10:37] <RainCT> AndyP: ah. well, thanks for looking at it
[10:37] <RainCT> any MOTU around that can look at a package?
[10:37] <ajmitch> jussi01: yes
[10:38] <jussi01> ajmitch: thanks :)
[10:48] <RainCT> can some MOTU please look at Open Invaders (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5807, i386 only)? (Source and Binary validate with both lintian and linda.)
[11:01] <bigon> hi, is there any revu admin here? I've a package stuck in incoming
[11:02] <sistpoty> bigon: what package?
[11:02] <ajmitch> hello sistpoty 
[11:02] <sistpoty> hi ajmitch
[11:02] <bigon> sistpoty: telepathy-sofiasip
[11:03] <sistpoty> bigon: you're in the keyring?
[11:04] <bigon> sistpoty: well I was, but I didn't upload a package for a while
[11:04] <sistpoty> bigon: oh, it's a binary package
[11:04] <sistpoty> bigon: please upload only source packages to revu
[11:04] <bigon> sistpoty: ark
[11:04] <bigon> sorry
[11:05] <sistpoty> bigon: I've deleted it
[11:05] <bigon> sistpoty: thanks
[11:05] <sistpoty> np
[11:05] <sistpoty> omg ajmitch *g*
[11:06] <sistpoty> ok, /me is off to bed... 
[11:06] <sistpoty> gn8 everyone
[11:07] <ajmitch> night
[11:08] <RainCT> good night
[11:21] <Q-FUNK> what was the trick to make a postinst verbose, to be able to debug it, again?
[11:22] <persia> ScottLij: Take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[11:22] <LaserJock> ScottLij: also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment is a good read
[11:22] <geser> Q-FUNK: set -x for bash
[11:23] <LaserJock> in fact maybe I should go read it now ...
[11:25] <AndyP> heh
[11:28] <Q-FUNK> geser: ah yes, that was the one.  thanks!
[11:29] <Q-FUNK> ogra: found
[11:30] <Q-FUNK> ogra: it turns out that it has nothing to do with the keyboard.  xserver-xorg just plains hang if there's no monitor to probe via ddc, for some reason, when installing via a chroot.
[11:32] <Q-FUNK> ogra: putting -x on top of the postinst showed that it actually froze at xresprobe, not quite at keyboard detection.
[11:40] <jussi01> ok, someone tell me how stupid I am. n o actually dont. but please tell me how with a debelper rules file to reroute the pathe where the sources are to /src
[11:42] <persia> jussi01: Is there no toplevel makefile, just one in src/?
[11:42] <jussi01> persia: correct
[11:45] <geser> can't you do: make -C src thetarget ?
[11:45] <_MMA_> persia: Can you give a eye to the ubuntustudio* packages?
[11:45] <persia> _MMA_: Sure, I'll take another look.
[11:45] <_MMA_> thanx
[11:46] <jussi01> geser: almost everything is in src, config, make etc
[11:46] <_MMA_> brb
[11:48] <geser> jussi01: doesn't cd src and than calling make from the rules files don't work? (make -C src does the same)