[04:08] <andrew_> can someone help me think about server spec for a mixed thin / thick / Linux / Windows environment.   We're likely to have 45 thin clients, 25 thick...how many and what speed of server do I need to run fileserver, DHCP, terminal server, and Windows...?
[05:19] <andrew_> can someone help me think about server spec for a mixed thin / thick / Linux / Windows environment. We're likely to have 45 thin clients, 25 thick...how many and what speed of server do I need to run fileserver, DHCP, terminal server, and Windows...?
[05:20] <Burgundavia> andrew_: got your LDAP server running?
[05:21] <andrew_> I took an LDAP vacation this week and bought a bunch of books to get my grounding in Linux land before taking another swing at it.
[05:21] <Burgundavia> ok
[05:21] <Burgundavia> don't fear, you will conquer LDAP
[05:21] <andrew_> The server is running fine...I just haven't succeeded in getting a client to authenticate against it...
[05:22] <andrew_> I'm in a position to be buying equipment and I don't want to screw up...
[05:22] <andrew_> So I'm looking for 2nd and 3rd opinions...
[05:23] <Burgundavia> ok
[05:23] <Burgundavia> what are you using for your thin clients?
[05:23] <andrew_> A mix of donated P4s and whatever we decide to buy, new...
[05:24] <Burgundavia> wow, those are massively powered
[05:24] <andrew_> Yes...lucky...should I just turn these into thin client servers?
[05:25] <andrew_> We'll have roughly 20 of these...
[05:25] <andrew_> but I want to reduce administration on the client side...
[05:26] <Burgundavia> hmm
[05:26] <Burgundavia> how many classrooms?
[05:26] <andrew_> four
[05:27] <andrew_> three, really, with one computer/study room
[05:27] <andrew_> I want 12-15 thin clients in each classroom, with the ability to push in another 20 laptops (thick client)
[05:29] <andrew_> I'm constrained to using Dell as the vendor, unless I can show that they don't carry what I need.
[05:29] <Burgundavia> right
[05:29] <Burgundavia> as for teh actual servers, you need to talk to sbalneav or somebody similar
[05:30] <andrew_> He recommended 6-8GB of RAM for a single server running 45 clients...but as for processors, I can't tell.
[05:31] <andrew_> I'm also a bit shaky on what I need to set up the dual Windows/Linux thin client environment I've seen in some of the case studies...
[05:32] <Burgundavia> you need one or several Windows servers, where the clients use seamless RDP to get an application from them
[05:32] <andrew_> He recommended three servers:  LTSP (Ram intensive), DNS/Filesever/Webserver (HD intensive), Windows (?)
[05:32] <Burgundavia> that makes sense
[05:33] <andrew_> What hardware requirements would the Windows server have?
[05:33] <Burgundavia> have you been a sysadmin much before?'
[05:33] <andrew_> No
[05:33] <Burgundavia> the requires of the windows server depend entirely on what you are running
[05:33] <Burgundavia> I suggest you collect a complete set of all applicatiosn you expect to be run
[05:33] <Burgundavia> the Windows ones
[05:34] <Burgundavia> then fire up a thin client and connect to a Windows computer
[05:34] <Burgundavia> monitor the RAM and network output on the windows machine
[05:34] <andrew_> If I understand properly, the Xterminal is still running on the LTSP server even when the clients are accessing the Windows server, is this correct?
[05:34] <Burgundavia> the users would still be in an Ubuntu environment
[05:35] <Burgundavia> they would just be accessing a single program off the Windows side
[05:35] <Burgundavia> another way to do it is to do what whiprush does
[05:35] <Burgundavia> he has he machines dual boot
[05:35] <Burgundavia> Windows and LTSP thin client
[05:35] <andrew_> That is preferable to me...I think.
[05:35] <andrew_> How difficult is that to do?
[05:36] <Burgundavia> not hard
[05:36] <Burgundavia> for that you need a copy of windows on each computer
[05:36] <Burgundavia> and then hack grub to do a network boot, I think
[05:36] <Burgundavia> you need to ask whiprush (Jorge Castro)
[05:37] <andrew_> So windows runs locally, not as an application server...?
[05:37] <Burgundavia> yes
[05:38] <Burgundavia> in that case, they are in a full windows environment and you need to deal with each windows install
[05:38] <Burgundavia> the advantage of an application server is that you minimize the number of windows instlals you have
[05:38] <andrew_> This would make a true "thin client" machine impossible to use as a dual boot machine.
[05:38] <Burgundavia> yes
[05:38] <andrew_> OK...I guess we can handle an emulator window...
[05:39] <Burgundavia> well, with seamless rdp, it is as if the appliation is running locally
[05:39] <Burgundavia> that is what is so brilliant
[05:39] <andrew_> In any case, it sounds like the Windows application server doesn't need to be as resource intensive as the LTSP server, is this correct?
[05:40] <Burgundavia> that depends on the application being run
[05:40] <Burgundavia> you also need to consider that graphics-intensive stuff does very badly when run over the network
[05:41] <andrew_> So streaming video = bad news...even with a blazing fast, 8MB RAM LTSP server?
[05:41] <Burgundavia> yes, because at that point, the bootleneck is not the server, it is the network itself
[05:42] <andrew_> Even with gigabit connection between the server and the switch?
[05:42] <Burgundavia> for that, I would test
[05:43] <Burgundavia> gigabit might do for streaming, but more graphics intensive stuff like games would still choke, I imagine
[05:43] <Burgundavia> that is off the top of my head
[05:44] <andrew_> I just need to know whether I need two $6000 servers to run Linux and Windows, or just one $6000 server and a smaller, say $2000 server to host windows apps...?
[05:44] <Burgundavia> like I said, I would figure out exactly which Windows apps you need to run and then take a look at their memory/cpu/network requirements
[05:46] <andrew_> Now as for the fileserver, LDAP, DHCP, and webserver...would all of these live on the same machine?
[05:47] <andrew_> A third machine, phsically separate from the LTSP and Windows machines?
[05:47] <Burgundavia> yes, if possibly
[05:47] <Burgundavia> possible, rather
[05:47] <Burgundavia> ldap/fileserver can share the same machine
[05:48] <andrew_> and also host a website...
[05:48] <Burgundavia> you could repurpose one of yoru p4s for that
[05:48] <Burgundavia> I am very conservative with stuff like that
[05:48] <Burgundavia> I try and separate out the services as much as possible
[05:49] <Burgundavia> makes backup/recovery schemes easier
[05:49] <andrew_> I want to give web users access to their LAN files
[05:50] <andrew_> Does this necessitate fileserver and webserver sharing the same machine?
[05:51] <Burgundavia> nope
[05:52] <andrew_> Here's where LDAP comes in, right?  Single authentication point for all services...
[05:52] <kjw75> how come when I installed 7.04 I have no educational tools, but they were there in 6.06 and 6.10?
[05:57] <andrew_> How do you install seamless rdp?
[05:58] <Burgundavia> andrew_: yes, and NFS for single file point
[05:58] <Burgundavia> kjw75: there is a bug. You need to install them afterwards
[05:59] <kjw75> Burgundavia: ah, ok thanks
[09:05] <kjw75> is there a synaptic package that will install the default educational programs that were supposed to come with 7.04?
[09:14] <jsgotangco> kjw75: try looking for edubuntu-desktop
[09:20] <kjw75> edubuntu-desktop is already installed. When I installed 6.06 and 6.10 it installed a menu called Education with educational software. Now that I installed 7.04 this was not included. I was told this was a bug in the 7.04 installer. Just wondering if there's an easy way to install all these apps or if I have to just pick them all myself and install separately.
[09:21] <jsgotangco> oh
[04:00] <cliebow> anyone have a hunch why i have som much trouble with gnome-settings-daemon?anyone else have accounts that barf?
[08:02] <racter> hiyall - how can i change the login screen for my edubuntu thin clients?  i made a theme and set it with gdmsetup but it's not appearing.