[12:59] <wasabi> anybody want to leave commentary on bug #120051
[12:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120051 in adduser "does not canonicalize username before editing /etc/group" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120051
[01:22] <_MMA_> I posted to the -devel ML. Who do I tap to get it pushed through?
[01:27] <bdmurray> bryce: I think I found one of those I830 bugs
[01:29] <madmetal_spyros> is here the place to discuss about gutsy's bugs? (not asking for solution)
[01:29] <persia> madmetal_spyros: #ubuntu-bugs is the best place for that.
[01:30] <madmetal_spyros> oke :) although its gutsy's ;) 
[01:30] <madmetal_spyros> thanks persia 
[02:29] <deuce868> anyone on the laptop team might be able to give me a hand with a new T61?
[02:30] <ijuz__> unsharp X with gma x3100?
[02:30] <deuce868> no, I get funky resolution
[02:31] <deuce868> http://www.mitechie.com/uploads/images/t61/00002.jpg
[02:31] <ijuz__> damn, looks like i'm the only idiot with that specific problem
[02:31] <deuce868> the unsharp X was noted in thinkwiki
[02:31] <deuce868> had to recompile with a specific change
[02:31] <deuce868> I haven't gotten that far yet
[02:32] <deuce868> http://thinkwiki.org/wiki/Installing_Ubuntu_7.04_%28Feisty_Fawn%29_on_a_ThinkPad_T61
[02:32] <ijuz__> deuce868: http://debian.christian-leber.de/d830/DSCF7379.JPG i have this too, when i connect an external screen, have you tried to set the screen res again with xrandr?
[02:33] <deuce868> no, I've only set the res in the xorg.conf
[02:33] <deuce868> I haven't tried out any xrandr stuff
[02:36] <deuce868> oh wow, ok...so ubuntu thinks my laptop display is the tv out
[02:36] <deuce868> no wonder I can't get above 30hz
[02:47] <deuce868> so how does this xrandr work? I see the modes
[02:47] <deuce868> and I see a * on the right one
[02:47] <deuce868> but when i try to set it to 1440x900 I get not a valid type
[02:48] <deuce868> "Size 1440x900 not found in available modes"
[02:50] <ijuz__> already the 2.0.0 driver?
[02:51] <ijuz__> deuce868: thank you very much, the thinkwiki link allows me to not get crazy on this sharpness issue, now i have beautiful KDE at 1920x1200 :)
[02:57] <ProN00b> uh, is there a gui/automatic way to regenerate /etc/fstab ?
[02:58] <deuce868> ijuz__: yea, it's 2.0.0 driver
[02:58] <deuce868> glad that trick worked out for you ijuz__ 
[02:58] <minghua> ProN00b: This is not a support channel.  Please try #ubuntu.
[02:58] <deuce868> hopefully we can get these machines running
[03:00] <ijuz__> deuce868: does X detect the lcd panel?
[03:00] <deuce868> just default monitor
[03:01] <deuce868> http://paste.avwsystems.com/paste/9
[03:01] <deuce868> that's my xrandr output
[03:02] <ijuz__> can't you switch the TV off?
[03:03] <deuce868> with xrandr?
[03:03] <ijuz__> xrandr --output=TV --off something like that
[03:03] <deuce868> or you mean a bios setting?
[03:03] <ijuz__> when you have xrandr 1.3
[03:03] <deuce868> bingo, you're my hero
[03:04] <deuce868> gnome menu's just went full screen
[03:04] <ijuz__> does beryl work for you? :)
[03:04] <deuce868> so now the question, should I submit a bug to gutsy or anything?
[03:04] <deuce868> I turned off the desktop effects
[03:05] <deuce868> one sec, I'll try to re-enable
[03:05] <ijuz__> my X hangs when i start beryl
[03:05] <ijuz__> (as in dead)
[03:10] <wasabi> so who should i petition to get the fade out animation removed for gksu?
[03:10] <wasabi> like, it's really obnoxious. And doubly so if you have compiz running.
[03:17] <bhale> wasabi: i blame seb
[03:17] <deuce868> ijuz__: no, I seem to be able to enable desktop effects ok
[03:17] <deuce868> I can't see how to disable the tv though
[03:17] <deuce868> I have to do it on each boot
[03:18] <ijuz__> i think you can set output in the xorg.conf
[03:18] <ijuz__> damn, here it dies (it's a Dell D830 and not a T61)
[03:19] <deuce868> that's ok, it's all nuts. 
[03:19] <deuce868> can't set the brightness unplugged
[03:19] <deuce868> it even jumps around on its own lol
[03:25] <wasabi> it should be `if (compiz) doPrettyCompositeEnabledFade();`, and that's it.
[03:25] <wasabi> I tjust looks like utter crap otherwise. Every program redraws in some random order. Slowely.
[03:25] <wasabi> And the fade out is a giant window wiper moving from the top to the bottom three times.
[03:34] <deuce868> ijuz__: hey, how did you get the blur trick to work?
[03:34] <deuce868> I can't get the package to build
[03:35] <deuce868> dh command not found?
[03:39] <wasabi> so are ya'll being smashed with crash reports since introducing apport?
[03:39] <wasabi> like, i'm about to submit ... 9 various crash reports. 
[03:40] <wasabi> n/m launchpad dead. ;)
[03:40] <deuce868> you find launchpad not letting you submit as well?
[03:42] <wasabi> yeah
[03:43] <wasabi> It's working now intermittently.
[03:48] <deuce868> '
[03:56] <Hobbsee> why are there *never* any members here of the CC when i want them?
[03:56] <Hobbsee> (and active)
[03:58] <persia> Hobbsee: Weekend?  Europe?
[03:58] <Hobbsee> true that
[03:58] <Hobbsee> was just hoping regardless
[07:02] <okaratas> hello
[07:05] <Burgundavia> hello okaratas
[07:05] <okaratas> Burgundavia, how are you ?
[07:05] <Burgundavia> not bad
[07:06] <okaratas> okey
[07:15] <okaratas> hmmm
[07:15] <okaratas> what is te bug?
[07:15] <okaratas> "Jun 30 08:15:31 ozgur kernel: [ 2011.209277]  SKB BUG: Invalid truesize (304) len=1440, sizeof(sk_buff)=176"
[07:16] <okaratas> what in interest SKB BUG?
[08:04] <mikmorg> hello
[08:08] <mikmorg> I'm trying to work a bit with Ubiquity, but am having a hard time understanding exactly where it is pulling from. Does ubiquity copy casper's live root to the harddrive? Does it create a new initrd, or copy casper's as well?
[08:10] <superm1> mikmorg, it doesn't copy the live root
[08:11] <superm1> it only copies the unmodified version
[08:11] <superm1> you can see whats copied in /rofs on a live disk
[08:11] <superm1> i believe it does however generate a new initrd
[08:11] <superm1> after everything is copied over
[08:11] <superm1> and casper is removed
[08:12] <mikmorg> superm1: perfect..
[08:12] <mikmorg> thanks
[08:13] <superm1> mikmorg, are you looking to modify it, or adapt existing towards a live disk your making?
[08:14] <mikmorg> superm1: actually, I'm not sure what I can and cannot discuss at the moment.
[08:14] <mikmorg> superm1: sorry.
[08:14] <superm1> mikmorg, pm?
[08:14] <superm1> or just can't period
[08:14] <mikmorg> superm1: pm is..?
[08:14] <superm1> private message 
[08:14] <mikmorg> superm1: ah, no sorry.. not yet :(
[08:15] <superm1> well if this is for a derivative distro, I can work with you a bit on adapting ubiquity towards it.  i've been working on a fairly large patch for mythbuntu
[08:16] <mikmorg> superm1: Do you work at Canonical?
[08:16] <superm1> mikmorg, no
[08:16] <superm1> do you?
[08:16] <mikmorg> No, I'm working at Dell.
[08:16] <superm1> ah okay
[08:17] <superm1> that would make more sense as to not being sure what can and cant be discussed
[08:17] <mikmorg> superm1: Precisely :)
[08:18] <superm1> okay well feel free to ping me with any other questions, and likely you should join #ubuntu-installer.  the main installer guys, including the ones working for canonical are found there most of the time
[08:18] <mikmorg> superm1: Ah, they've been hiding from me in there all this time?
[08:18] <superm1> hehe
[08:18] <mikmorg> superm1: Thanks a lot - I didn't notice that room.
[08:19] <mikmorg> superm1: You wouldn't happen to know if the /cdrom/casper/initrd.gz is generated inside of the same casper image as what is on the CD, would you?
[08:19] <superm1> evand and cjwatson will be the two main guys to talk to in there
[08:19] <mikmorg> superm1: I've been discussing quite a few things with cj.
[08:21] <superm1> i dont know too much about how the official process for generating that file is (i haven't seen canonical's live cd build process).  For our mythbuntu disks, we have been using the same initrd.gz for /cdrom/casper/ as well as the one sitting in the root of the disk
[08:21] <superm1> best way to determine for sure if you can't catch one of those guys is just md5sum the two of them
[08:21] <superm1> and compare
[08:22] <mikmorg> superm1: Good point. I didn't notice that the one in the root of the disk ever gets called.. am I wrong about that?
[08:22] <mikmorg> Nevermind,
[08:23] <superm1> mikmorg, i can't think of any reason it would be called, other than since its a symlink to /boot
[08:23] <mikmorg> I don't see one at all
[08:23] <superm1> so when the system is copied over
[08:23] <superm1> oh.
[08:23] <superm1> :)
[08:23] <mikmorg> ah yes, in casper..
[08:33] <mikmorg> superm1: It seems that I'm lucky
[08:33] <superm1> mikmorg, why is that?
[08:33] <mikmorg> superm1: /cdrom/casper/initrd.gz is indeed generated by (or at least, can be) the casper FS on the CD
[08:33] <mikmorg> a diff -r returns clean
[08:34] <superm1> ah :)
[10:09] <Hobbsee> hiya LaserJock 
[10:17] <LaserJock> hi Hobbsee 
[10:17] <Hobbsee> how's it goign?
[10:18] <ajmitch> hey LaserJock 
[10:20] <LaserJock> it's, you know ... going
[10:20] <LaserJock> I'm hackin' on some Edubuntu stuff
[10:21] <Hobbsee> heh
[10:22] <LaserJock> it's always fun being the first to do things :/
[10:22] <ajmitch> it certainly is
[10:22] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: What are you trying to do?
[10:22] <LaserJock> this 2nd CD we introduced in Feisty has caused all kinds of interesting things
[10:22] <Hobbsee> hiya Fujitsu 
[10:23] <Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
[10:23] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: currently I'm playing around with the .iso build process to end up with a customized gnome-app-install window when you pop in the 2nd Cd
[10:24] <Fujitsu> Ah. Sounds fun.
[10:24] <LaserJock> luckily mvo, et. al did a good job when they wrote g-a-i :-)
[10:27] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: i remember something similar to what Xandros does with their 2nd CD
[10:27] <jsgotangco> put the CD in, and a selection window pops out
[10:28] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: in Feisty, you get a window that lets you go to either synaptic (with the CD added to sources.list) or g-a-i showing just the contents of the CD
[10:31] <LaserJock> but most all the apps end up in Education with a lot of other empty menus
[10:40] <LaserJock> boy, I think gutsy almost ate a hard drive today
[10:40] <ajmitch> how?
[10:40] <LaserJock> I have an old computer at work that I have running gutsy, and I did my usual dist-upgrade
[10:41] <LaserJock> and I rebooted the other day and kinda forgot about it
[10:41] <LaserJock> but today I went to do something with it and noticed it was reeeealy slow
[10:41] <LaserJock> and I got all kinds of "not-so-nice" messages in console
[10:41] <LaserJock> bunches of udev stuff
[10:41] <ajmitch> heh
[10:41] <ajmitch> ah, ignore those :)
[10:42] <ajmitch> udev & devmapper?
[10:42] <LaserJock> so I googled around and found a launchpad bug
[10:42] <LaserJock> apparently it was driving my hard drive into the ground
[10:42] <ajmitch> yay
[10:42] <LaserJock> so I got rid of evms and it seems ok
[10:42] <LaserJock> but the drive is old and I got a few IO errors
[10:42] <LaserJock> so I made backups today :-)
[10:43] <jsgotangco> it must be the video
[10:43] <jsgotangco> :)
[10:43] <LaserJock> of course
[10:43] <LaserJock> darn those binary blobs ;-)
[10:44] <ajmitch> given that the last I saw before I killed X, was X taking 100% CPU time
[10:44] <ajmitch> after I killed X I lost network access
[10:44] <ajmitch> generally happens when the kernel goes into la-la-land
[10:44] <LaserJock> heh, that's why I use ancient video cards that only work with vesa :-)
[10:44] <ajmitch> I need my gaming fix
[10:45] <LaserJock> although I so want to try out the new "desktop effects by default"
[10:45] <ajmitch> though I originally went for an nvidia card because there was a spare dual-head card
[10:45] <ajmitch> and I really miss dual-head now :(
[10:46] <LaserJock> heh
[10:46] <LaserJock> I could do a dual-head setup, 17" CRT and air ;-)
[10:46] <ajmitch> hah
[10:47] <LaserJock> although there is actually a whiteboard right beside it
[10:47] <ajmitch> I was spoilt - now a 20" LCD feels small
[10:47] <LaserJock> I could draw a screen
[10:47] <LaserJock> and call that my bling monitor
[10:47] <ajmitch> ooh, cubes!
[10:47] <LaserJock> hmm, my 3D wet-erase art isn't the best
[10:48] <ajmitch> aha, found that box of blank DVDs
[10:48] <ajmitch> time to start with backups
[10:48] <ion_> I used to have two 17 CRTs, now i have a single 22 TFT. I prefer this one. Two 22s would be nice, but also expensive.
[10:48] <Mithrandir> problem is, my desk is getting too small
[10:49] <Mithrandir> goggles with a virtual 10k by 10k screen?
[10:50] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: then get a bigger desk.
[10:50] <Hobbsee> problem solved.
[10:50] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: that would entail getting a new apartment, since it's quite crowded in here already.
[10:50] <Mithrandir> and that's just too much hassle
[10:50] <persia> Umm..  That'd be really nice, but I was thinking something actually on the market (like 800x600 or 1024x768), the point being that they provide more pixels without using desk space.
[10:50] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: over a computer monitor, yes.
[10:52] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: monitors are *important*
[10:52] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: hence 2x 17 inch ones should be sufficient.
[10:53] <LaserJock> ajmitch: they are?
[10:53] <LaserJock> well, one is at least
[10:53] <Mithrandir> hmm
[10:54] <Mithrandir> I could just replace one of them with a 20" instead.  There might be room for that.
[10:54] <LaserJock> but the reason I haven't gotten a flat panel for my dekstop is I'm always just ssh'd into it anyway
[10:54] <persia> Mithrandir: You could get the rotating kind, and switch the aspect.
[10:56] <LaserJock> I wonder what would happen if I took a bunch of those 7" displays on the intel classmatepc and glued them to the wall
[10:57] <LaserJock> seems like that would be a bit of a disaster
[10:58] <Kmos> Fujitsu: that's for museum :)
[10:58] <Mithrandir> I saw HP had done something cool with projectors; by some nice use of software, you just pointed a bunch of projectors at a wall, told them to calibrate and then had a huge screen
[10:58] <Fujitsu> Kmos: Unfortunately it's all I have other than my laptop LCD.
[10:59] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: Mmm... sounds expensive.
[10:59] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: projector bulbs are, yes.
[11:00] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: not when you can use cheap projectors.
[11:00] <Mithrandir> you get 800x600 projectors here for about 500
[11:01] <Fujitsu> Still rather expensive.
[11:01] <Hobbsee> then you have to manhandle the projector to work, too
[11:01] <Hobbsee> which is fine, assuming you know what you're doing
[11:05] <ion_> DIY projector, http://inventgeek.com/Projects/HomeTheater/overview.aspx :-)
[11:06] <StevenK> Hobbsee: The projector we have at $WORK came with a padded bag that neatly fits the projector and all cables.
[11:07] <Hobbsee> StevenK: that's not the problem
[11:07] <StevenK> I misunderstood "manhandle the projector to work" then. Okay.
[11:07] <Hobbsee> StevenK: if that were the problem, i would never have gotten called out of class countless times from other classes trying to make their projector work, because the students would often say "oh, go get sarah, she can fix this"
[11:08] <ajmitch> hah
[11:08] <Hobbsee> usually with a combination of power, and function+f8.
[11:08] <StevenK> Hah
[11:08] <ion_> Hehe
[11:08] <Hobbsee> and occasoinally having to cycle the projector so it was getting the right input.
[11:10] <Hobbsee> of course, it gets really interesting when you just walk into someone else's classroom, where the teacher has never met you before, and saying "here, i'll fix the projector" - or telling your own teacher "i'll be back in a minute"  "where are you going?" "fixing things"  "but where are you going?"
[11:10] <Hobbsee> mentally going: stop asking me these questions, you really dont need to know, and it's disrupting the class.
[11:20] <Kmos> http://people.ubuntu-in.org/~carthik/bugstats/
[11:20] <Kmos> not working
[11:21] <ijuz_> deuce868: apt-get build-dep xserver-xorg-video-intel
[11:24] <Fujitsu> Kmos: It's due to the unannounced LP change last week.
[11:24] <Fujitsu> Kmos: I haven't seen carthik around lately.
[11:24] <Kmos> i'll mail him
[11:25] <pygi> pitti, you're supposed to eat her :)
[11:25] <pitti> nah, I'm a semi-vegetarian
[11:26] <Kmos> lol
[11:27] <ajmitch> pitti: you eat semi-vegetables?
[11:27] <pitti> ajmitch: yeah, only one half of an apple at a time
[11:29] <StevenK> pitti: Is libspandsp* in binary NEW still?
[11:30] <pitti> StevenK: no, nothing in new
[11:30] <pitti> StevenK: shall I update it for you again?
[11:31] <pitti> StevenK: next week I'll look into automating this, but it's not really trivial
[11:31] <StevenK> pitti: I haven't done anything, so I don't see the point.
[11:31] <StevenK> I did however, see spandsp FTBFS on amd64, so I'm chasing that, first.
[11:32] <StevenK> pitti: And jackass says, "That's what you think" ? :-P
[11:32] <pitti> StevenK: you mean drescher?
[11:33] <StevenK> people.u.c is jackass, or does jackass only host?
[11:33] <pitti> StevenK: ah, people is rookery
[11:33] <pitti> StevenK: jackass is the old archive.u.c., still used for security uploads and processing
[11:33] <StevenK> Ahh.
[11:38] <pygi> morning Zdra 
[11:38] <Zdra> hello pygi
[11:39] <StevenK> Gah.
[11:40] <Fujitsu> StevenK: That sounds a little evil.
[11:41] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Files are installed into /usr/lib for every arch except amd64 where it's /usr/lib64.
[11:41] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[11:41] <Fujitsu> StevenK: /usr/lib64 is a symlink here.
[11:41] <LaserJock> does bzr get faster at pushing after the initial one?
[11:42] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: It doesn't have to push the whole lot, so yes.
[11:42] <Fujitsu> Much, much quicker if it's a large tree like mplayer.
[11:43] <StevenK> cp: cannot stat `./debian/tmp/usr/lib/libspandsp.so.0': No such file or directory
[11:44] <LaserJock> well, I just discovered my last branch on LP is 55 weeks old
[11:44] <LaserJock> which seems rather pathetic
[11:46] <pitti> StevenK: I cleaned up some cruft and updated the lists
[11:46] <StevenK> pitti: Great, thanks.
[11:46] <StevenK> I'm still twitching over curl*.
[11:48] <StevenK> Fujitsu: /usr/lib64 being a symlink has nothing to do with $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr/lib64
[11:51] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Noted, but I failed to realise that is what you meant.
[12:16] <zer> Gutsy contains new default directories in $HOME: Documents, Music, Pictures, Videos. Will there be any plans to support a localized version?
[12:17] <persia> zer: Yes.  The default folders should have localised names at release time.
[12:18] <ion_> Capital letters in directory names for the lose.
[12:18] <zer> persia: ok, good news. Because i know that if i create a directory "Dokumente", no Bookmark gets created. But if i create "Documents", a new bookmark for this directory appears automatically.
[12:18] <ion_> ...as long as we use case-sensitive filesystems. :-)
[12:24] <zer> nautilus-sendto only contains Evolution in Gutsy, no Pidgin-support anymore?
[12:26] <minghua> persia: Are the xdg-user-dirs folders ubuntu specific?
[12:26] <persia> minghua: Not to my knowledge.
[12:27] <minghua> persia: Good, then most likely they are going to be translated in time.  Otherwise I have my doubts.
[12:28] <persia> minghua: A fair amount seems to be done upstream (see http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/xdg-user-dirs).  None for JA though :(
[12:31] <minghua> persia: It's still a long way until string freeze, don't worry.
[12:31] <minghua> persia: BTW do you use a ja desktop?
[12:32] <persia> minghua: I usually use English, but sometimes ja or ru for testing l10n issues.
[12:32] <ajmitch> that's unnecessarily cruel & vicious
[12:33] <pygi> ajmitch, it's not
[12:33] <pygi> :)
[12:33] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: no it's not
[12:34] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: not if he's jumping at me and tickling my feet :P
[12:34] <pygi> Hobbsee, don't steal my words!
[12:34] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: and when did he do such things?
[12:34] <Hobbsee> [19:25]  * pitti jumps at Hobbsee and tickles her feet
[12:35] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: nothing wrong with that :)
[12:35] <persia> minghua: Is there enough translation?  ru is usually pretty solid, but ja still has lots of English scattered about.
[12:36] <minghua> persia: GNOME should be okay, which is what I use
[12:36] <Fujitsu> persia: How many languages do you speak?
[12:37] <persia> Fujitsu: Um.  Zero?  I can say at least a few words in many, handle taxis in restaurants for most majors, have once held conversations in five or six, and am no longer confident in my ability to be correct in any.
[12:40] <minghua> texis in restaurants?
[12:41] <Mithrandir> big restaurants; you have to take a taxi around in it.
[12:41] <mpt> What's Japanese for "What the hell is that taxi doing in my restaurant"
[12:41] <minghua> poor waiters
[12:41] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: Heh.
[12:41] <persia> minghua: Case in point :)  Should have been taxis and restaurants (but not for arabic or farsi, sadly).
[12:41] <Mithrandir> mpt: "idling" would be a good response.
[12:41] <ion_> The fi desktop is awful. The most annoying thing is that theyve translated MB to Mt, as if standard units were somehow translatable. Not only that, but t is already taken by tonne. :-)
[12:42] <pygi> ion_, didn't you said that already?
[12:42] <pygi> deja vu!
[12:42] <ion_> Yes, i did.
[12:42] <Fujitsu> Those are some damn heavy files.
[12:43] <mpt> I would like to see a grading of Ubuntu translation quality done by people fluent in each language
[12:43] <pygi> :)
[12:43] <minghua> I imagine qualification of the graders is going to be a problem :-)
[12:43] <mpt> because otherwise it's very difficult to tell how well Ubuntu's translation effort is goin
[12:43] <mpt> -g
[12:44] <mpt> Yeah, it's a bit of a catch-11
[12:44] <Fujitsu> Um, catch-22?
[12:44] <persia> mpt: I think that as interest in each country grows, the translations naturally get better.  pt is really strong, for example.
[12:44] <mpt> Fujitsu, no, not as bad as a catch-22, it goes only in one direction
[12:45] <persia> Fujitsu: No.  We're all mad - but nobody is trying to leave.
[12:45] <Mithrandir> you could just have a simple majority vote and do some analysis based on the mean and the median (and maybe the standard deviation).
[12:45] <mpt> Similar to the problem of grading Wikipedia articles
[12:45] <Fujitsu> mpt: Ah.
[12:45] <Mithrandir> it wouldn't be perfect, but it should give you a reasonable number, I would think.
[12:45] <mpt> or grading Free Software usability
[12:47] <ion_> Or the naming of free software. ;-)
[12:47] <ion_> Case in point: qtpfsgui
[12:47] <mpt> haha
[12:47] <mpt> or gimp
[12:47] <mpt> or iceweasel
[12:47] <Mithrandir> ion_: it's a qt program, doing stuff with PFS and it's a gui app.  I don't see what's weird with that.
[12:47] <persia> mpt: I like my graphical image manipulation program!
[12:48] <minghua> hmm, I think ubuntu's code names are worth mentioning as well
[12:48] <ajmitch> minghua: isn't the gutsy gibbon descriptive enough?
[12:48] <mpt> minghua, and the version numbers
[12:48] <Mithrandir> I'd rather have names be unique than descriptive.
[12:48] <persia> minghua: They get real version numbers at release.  It's not that different than other environments.
[12:49] <minghua> ajmitch: yeah, very descriptive, especially translated to Chinese
[12:49] <mpt> http://www.google.com/search?q=intext:%22ubuntu%207.4%22
[12:49] <persia> minghua: Why do we need to translate internal code names, when development is done in a single language?
[12:49] <Mithrandir> names such as "evolution", "tasks" or "excel" are horrible names, they are all common words which makes searching for them hard and with the exception of tasks doesn't say what the app does at all.
[12:49] <mpt> http://www.google.com/search?q=intext:%22ubuntu%206.1%22
[12:50] <minghua> persia: I have no idea, but I see those translations on Chinese forums, some of which makes me frown
[12:50] <mpt> Mithrandir, that's true too, but that Microsoft gives things crappy names is not an excuse for us to do so as well :-)
[12:50] <Mithrandir> mpt: two of my three examples were free software projects.
[12:51] <mpt> oh?
[12:51] <Mithrandir> mpt: you can try searching for it. :-P
[12:51] <mpt> har har
[12:51] <Mithrandir> http://pimlico-project.org/tasks.html
[12:52] <Mithrandir> (oh, and they have "contacts", "dates" and "sync" too.)
[12:52] <mpt> So compounds are an easy way of generating searchable names
[12:52] <mpt> Firefox, OneNote, OpenOffice, Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Thunderbird
[12:53] <Mithrandir> half of which doesn't say what the application actually does.
[12:53] <persia> mpt: Yes, but how do you translate compounds into languages with no common phonetic representation?
[12:53] <mpt> Right, searchability is desirable but not sufficient
[12:53] <mpt> Photoshop and OneNote are vaguely reminiscent, the others of those are not
[12:54] <Mithrandir> firefox?  That's an animal.  OneNote?  Note-taking program?  Word processor?  Bibliography manager?  Dreamweaver?  Uh, program for controlling weaving machines?  Animation package?  Thunderbird?  Just a mythical animal.
[12:54] <mpt> exactly
[12:54] <minghua> persia: actually when it comes to animals, Chinese is far less concise than English
[12:55] <Mithrandir> openoffice.org isn't all bad, since people know what an office program is (even if the term is incorrect).
[12:56] <minghua> I don't know how often English speaking people use "gibbon" in daily conversations, but I think most Chinese just call them "monkeys"
[12:56] <mpt> persia, by "no common phonetic representation" do you mean no equivalent of hiragana/katakana?
[12:56] <minghua> we do have a term for zoologists, but I doubt everyone knows it
[12:57] <minghua> so firefox is a real animal?
[12:57] <persia> mpt: Or, more generally no phonetic alphabet (Roman, Hangul, kana, Arabic, etc. are all fine).  I've most frequently seen this issue with Chinese environments.
[12:59] <Fujitsu> minghua: I've not heard of it.
[12:59] <persia> mpt: Specifically, if it can be pronounced, but has no meaning, it's easy to substitute some characters to make a similar sound (and it's obviously a foreign word), if it is a compond, there may be a tendency to translate the meaning of the individual sections, rather than the sound, which can be confusing.
[12:59] <mpt> persia, dunno. How did Google China end up as Gu Ge?
[12:59] <minghua> persia: I don't quite understand your comment about Chinese and compounds
[12:59] <minghua> mpt: Alas, that was a interesting story
[12:59] <persia> mpt: Phonetic similarity to a nonsense word (obviously foreign).
[01:00] <minghua> Fujitsu: you haven't heard of "council greyskull" either, you don't count. :-P
[01:00] <mpt> Maybe the answer to translating things like that is "don't"
[01:00] <persia> minghua: My IME is not working today, but essentially the difference between (fi)(re)(fo)(ksi) and (fire)(fox).
[01:00] <mpt> Even though Ubuntu has a meaning, I wouldn't expect that to be translated
[01:00] <mpt> Same for other brand names
[01:01] <persia> mpt: Use Roman characters then?
[01:01] <minghua> persia: Oh I see.  That's fine, as we can do phonetic translations (as mpt just pointed out, google -> gu ge), but it's not as common as in Japanese
[01:01] <mpt> persia, I don't know.
[01:02] <persia> minghua: That's because you don't have kana :)  Anyway, I'm thinking about translator confusion, rather than anything else.
[01:02] <minghua> in the case of firefox, we translate literally as fire (huo) + fox(hu)
[01:03] <persia> minghua: Right.  That's an example of something that makes componds dangerous.  As pointed out before, DreamWeaver would be a good name for an automated loom control system.
[01:03] <minghua> yes, I agree, a lot of compounds translate to quite hilarious words in Chinese
[01:04] <persia> I like either mpt's idea of not translating, or documenting that translators should use phonetic equivalents when translating names.
[01:04] <mpt> and http://www.microsoft.com/japan/windows/products/windowsvista/default.mspx
[01:04] <minghua> take our google example, before they decide on a Chinese name themselves, it is affectionately called "ancient dog" due to phonetic similarity
[01:05] <minghua> google is not exactly compounds, but that's on top of my head
[01:05] <persia> mpt: Japanese is a poor example, as most Japanese are familiar with three phonetic systems.
[01:05] <mpt> So ideally their new name should have been a translation of "new tricks" :-P
[01:06] <persia> Mixing is very common, and not mixing is considered poor use of the language.
[01:06] <mpt> persia, you mean most of them know Romaji?
[01:06] <persia> mpt: Standard Education requires 10 years of English.
[01:07] <minghua> persia: why three?
[01:07] <mpt> ok, http://www.microsoft.com/china/windows/default.mspx
[01:07] <mpt> same thing
[01:08] <minghua> windows is a bad example, you just can't translate it, too confusing
[01:08] <persia> minghua: hiragana for native words, katakana for borrowed words or emphasis (often used like italics), and Romaji for style (often used for foreign words (not always correctly), proper names, or for even more emphasis).
[01:08] <minghua> office is another bad example
[01:08] <mpt> and http://www.apple.com.cn/macosx/leopard/index.html
[01:09] <mpt> There are leopards in China, right? :-)
[01:09] <persia> There's at least  
[01:09] <minghua> persia: oh, I see.  I mistakenly thought "three pronunciation systems".
[01:10] <minghua> probably not
[01:10] <minghua> leopards are translated "American ", I think
[01:10] <minghua> let me check on wikipedia
[01:10] <mpt> minghua, is it *more* confusing in Chinese than it is in English?
[01:11] <persia> That's more Roman characters than I usually see on Chinese pages.
[01:11] <mpt> ("We run a Microsoft office" vs. "We run Microsoft Office")
[01:11] <minghua> mpt: I don't know, I use Chinese and English in too different occasions
[01:11] <persia> minghua: I think that's panther.
[01:12] <persia> mpt: Where is "We run a Microsoft office"?  Is that a machine translation?
[01:12] <minghua> persia: It seems either of us is right.  leopard is indeed the Asian one, jaguar is the American one.
[01:12] <minghua> neither*
[01:13] <persia> Hmmm.  I liked either better :)
[01:13] <mpt> persia, in English the phrase "Microsoft shop" is far more common to refer to an office or department that uses Microsoft software exclusively or nearly exclusively
[01:13] <mpt> even when they're not shops
[01:13] <persia> minghua: Still, it's " ", no?
[01:13] <mpt> and that *might* be because of the existence of Microsoft Office making "office" confusing, but there's no real way to tell now.
[01:13] <persia> mpt: That's just jargon.
[01:14] <minghua> persia: I suppose so, although I doubt there are many leopards left in China, as we don't talk much about it.
[01:14] <mpt> We should resolve this by using numbers for product names *as well as* for versions
[01:14] <persia> minghua: Probably not :)  Maybe in the far northwest (unless that's too dry for them).
[01:14] <minghua> persia: In Chinese culture tiger is the typical big, wild and carnival animal.
[01:15] <mpt> Ubuntu Gutsy shall henceforth be 7471108.7.10
[01:15] <minghua> "King of all beasts" and that.
[01:15] <persia> minghua: Amusingly, in English, the "King of all beasts" is the lion.
[01:16] <minghua> yeah I realize that.
[01:16] <minghua> most likely because there are tiger in China (or *were*).
[01:19] <mpt> There wer 125000 years ago
[01:19] <mpt> were
[01:19] <persia> mpt: Why 7471108?
[01:19] <mpt> chosen at random
[01:48] <leleobhz> someone can explain me how the restricted-modules package works?
[01:48] <leleobhz> because i want to update the fglrx but a simple uupdate will not work
[01:50] <sivang> hi folks
[01:51] <sivang> does someone know of a reliable way to compare two dirs and make sure they are identical? or is 'diff -r dir1 dir2' the way to go? (I copied a bunch of gigs from ext3 to xfs FS and size differ in about 4G so I want to make sure it's all there)
[01:54] <geser> sivang: do you only want to compare the file list or also the file contents?
[02:07] <Mithrandir> sivang: I'd use md5sum or sha1sum rather than just diff.
[02:09] <sivang> geser, Mithrandir : thanks guys, but it appears I found the culprit - permission problem that prevented true calculation of sizes
[02:09] <Mithrandir> you can still be eaten
[02:09] <Mithrandir> just not digested.
[02:10] <pygi> Hobbsee, but you already are eaten ... which kindof makes your theory false
[02:10] <Hobbsee> no i'm not
[02:10] <pygi> yup, you are
[02:11] <sivang> Mithrandir, geser : diff seemed to be enough for this purpose, as I did want to only compare file list and not contents
[02:12] <pygi> Hobbsee, ^^
[03:15] <evand> Wow, gnash leaks like a sieve.
[03:16] <Hobbsee> hiya evand 
[03:16] <Hobbsee> evand: i tentatively triaged a few ubiquity bugs
[03:16] <evand> hello Hobbsee 
[03:16] <evand> great!
[03:17] <Hobbsee> evand: basically dupes of the sudo/gksudo problem.
[03:18] <evand> good, perhaps the additional logs will give a clearer picture, though as cjwatson has suggested it's probably the interaction with gksudo
[03:19] <Hobbsee> evand: i dont use gnome normally, so dont know about gksudo itself.  but yeah.
[03:20] <Hobbsee> at least, that's what the cause of it seemed to be, to me.  *shrugs*.  it's not WM related - although the symptoms change dependant on the WM
[03:21] <evand> 'tis a very odd bug
[03:21] <Hobbsee> indeed.
[06:25] <RageMax> I'm seeing the busybox "can't access tty; job control turned off" error in both feisty and gutsy
[06:25] <RageMax> the machine works fine with knoppix
[06:26] <ijuz_> RageMax: when trying to boot the desktop cd?
[06:27] <RageMax> ijuz_: right, I see a lot of other people are having the problem as well
[06:27] <ijuz_> that is some new hardware?
[06:27] <RageMax> yeah, it's a newish gateway laptop
[06:27] <ijuz_> i thought gateway is dead... bu tok
[06:27] <RageMax> nah, their laptops are better than dell ;)
[06:28] <ijuz_> use the alternate cd
[06:28] <ijuz_> it will load the generic-ide module
[06:28] <RageMax> the laptop is SATA
[06:29] <ijuz_> well, no idea what it is in my laptop... but it worked there, you can in the meantime try modprobe generic-ide from the console you get when booting the desktop cd fails
[06:29] <ijuz_> cat /proc/kmsg will show you if it was found
[06:29] <ijuz_> no idea if there is someway to start the boot script again
[06:44] <RageMax> ijuz_: thanks, you pointed me in the right direction, I got it to boot
[06:44] <RageMax> need the generic.all_generic_ide option set to 1 upon boot
[06:45] <ijuz_> as boot parameter?
[06:46] <RageMax> yeah
[06:46] <RageMax> this has to be a huge frickin hack
[06:48] <ijuz_> no idea if there is already a bug report for this, basically the script should try to load ide-generic before giving up
[06:56] <RageMax> found another bug with the intel driver, but it looks like someone reported that already
[06:56] <RageMax> xdriver that is
[10:44] <Kmos> etank: bug 46135 , not fixed yet ?
[10:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 46135 in ubiquity "Failed to create file system (with 'erase entire disk')" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/46135
[10:46] <etank> Kmos: i dont know
[10:46] <etank> i haven't seen that bug before
[10:51] <Kmos> etank: still from 2006
[10:56] <Chipzz> Kmos: that looks like a bug which has a reasonable explanation and work-around
[10:56] <Kmos> yeah, maybe
[10:56] <Chipzz> so: Kmos haven't created a patch for bug 46135 yet? ;P
[10:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 46135 in ubiquity "Failed to create file system (with 'erase entire disk')" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/46135
[10:57] <Kmos> Chipzz: isn't attached
[10:57] <Chipzz> (subtile or less subtile way to point out that this isn't the best place to come complain about your favorite bugs ;) ;) )
[10:57] <Kmos> or someone reproduce it at new ubiquity version to see if it's fixed
[11:02] <Chipzz> (Kmos: or at least try to use a few more words; in hindsight your question could be interpreted as "is this bug aleady fixed or not?", but the way you put it sounded an awefull lot like "why hasn't this been fixed yet? hurry!" ;P)