[09:44] <nzk> Is Seveas here yet?
[09:47] <Hobbsee> n
[09:47] <Hobbsee> o
[09:47] <Myrtti> /wii Seveas
[09:47] <Hobbsee> nzk: /msg nickserv info seveas
[09:47] <nzk> 3 weeks?
[09:47] <nzk> Jesus christ
[09:48] <Myrtti> life is
[09:48] <nzk> isn't he like, the head of IRC for Ubuntu?
[09:48] <Hobbsee> he's taken a break, for personal reasons
[09:48] <Hobbsee> and there's an op council
[09:48] <Hobbsee> so, it's not just him.
[09:48] <nzk> Can't someone besides him unban me?
[09:48] <Hobbsee> are you asking can or will?
[09:49] <nzk> Both
[09:49] <Hobbsee> technically, yes, anyone with access can unban you.
[09:49] <Hobbsee> will, i'll leave that up to the council - but previously, their answer has been no
[09:49] <nzk> It's been a year
[09:50] <nzk> Like seveas said, I can get unbanned in a year
[09:50] <Hobbsee> it's not been a year
[09:50] <Hobbsee> seeing as i've only used linux for 2 - it's been way less than half my time using linux, that he told you that you could come back in a year.
[09:50] <nzk> 10 months, 2 or 3 weeks.
[09:50] <nzk> August 17th, 2006, was the ban date, I believe.
[09:51] <Myrtti> so it's not been a year
[09:51] <Myrtti> next question
[09:51] <Hobbsee> @btlogin
[09:52] <nzk> However, gnomefreak or whatever his name was recommended for my being unbanned recently, what happened with that?
[09:52] <Hobbsee> your last ban in #ubuntu was april 9, 2007
[09:52] <nzk> That's an autoban from when I came in on another IP, and the bot saw me
[09:53] <nzk> Since I had the channel on autojoin for a long time, and if I went to a hotel or something
[09:54] <Hobbsee> august 26 was the last user-set ban for #ubuntu it looks like
[09:54] <nzk> My birthday :)
[09:54] <nzk> But I wasn't even on the computer that day...
[09:55] <Hobbsee> no, i dont accept excuses of "i couldnt control my account, when i was identified", or "the rules dont apply to me because i didnt read them" or any other crap excuse like that.
[09:56] <nzk> I didn't make excuses, I just said I don't recall being on the computer on my birthday.
[09:56] <GazzaK> Oh Hi nzk morning
[09:56] <nzk> Not here
[09:56] <nzk> Of all places
[09:56] <Hobbsee> nzk: then again, if you cant behave in other ubuntu channels, why should we believe that you can behave in #ubuntu?
[09:57] <nzk> What do you mean by that?
[09:57] <Hobbsee> nzk: the last time you trolled one of them, it was...lets see....May 19th, 2007.
[09:57] <nzk> I've behaved fine in #*ubuntu* channels
[09:57] <GazzaK> and you cannot behave in other freenode channels, thats for sure
[09:57] <nzk> Which channel was that?
[09:57] <Hobbsee> #ubuntu+1
[09:57] <nzk> You were the one that set that ban, it was something like asking for Feisty support but you only had Gutsy support
[09:57] <sdouble> speaking of unabnning.. I get forwarded to #ubuntu-read-topic and did the firmware upgrade.  Can I get checked again for this?
[09:58] <Hobbsee> indeed.
[09:58] <Hobbsee> sdouble: sure
[09:58] <nzk> Hobbsee, that wasn't trolling though
[09:58] <Hobbsee> no, was merely disobeying teh rules.  so i'm checking the others
[09:58] <Hobbsee> sdouble: you're fine :)
[09:59] <sdouble> wonderful.  thanks again.
[10:01] <nzk> So what do I have to do to get unbanned?
[10:01] <Hobbsee> nzk: what's more, your last #ubuntu-offtopic ban was clearly done to annoy the ops, and to show that you cant behave.  You've been on irc long enough that you know perfectly well what !ops does.  Therefore, i say, it's a year from that date, ie, a year to see if you can learn to behave, from the last time that you clearly havent.
[10:01] <nzk> Argh
[10:01] <nzk> That wasn't to "clearly annoy the ops"
[10:01] <Hobbsee> which means, dont come back until January 14th, 2008
[10:01] <Hobbsee> you know what ops does.  you're a known troll.
[10:01] <Hobbsee> good day to you.
[10:01] <nzk> I didn't know, I swear
[10:02] <Hobbsee> ....
[10:02] <nzk> Besides, it has more to do with knowing ubotu commands than being on IRC
[10:02] <Hobbsee> next you're going to tell me that on all ubuntu irc channels, you havent been taking any notice of the bot.
[10:02] <nzk> I have but I never saw anyone use/mention that command
[10:02] <nzk> IIRC
[10:03] <Hobbsee> any seconds?
[10:03] <Hobbsee> nalioth: got a problem with that?
[10:03] <nzk> You came into -offtopic, and I wanted to see if you were an op so I did that, unknowing that it would highlight all the ops
[10:03] <nzk> I apologized anyway, it was an honest mistake
[10:04] <Hobbsee> unless anyone from the op council speaks up against it, and proposes something better, that will be the terms of the agreement about being unbanned in ubuntu related channels.
[10:04] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: ^
[10:05] <Hobbsee> i agree with seveas, for his ban message.  "bollocks"
[10:06] <elkbuntu> nzk, if you didnt know it was going to highlight the ops, why did you do something that by your own admission was going to list the nicks of ops?
[10:07] <elkbuntu> please try to not contradict yourself, it only digs you deeper into the hole you're already in
[10:08] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: so you're seconding?
[10:11] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, seconding the reason for punishment, but he can be unbanned *on probation* in 12days, (6mths from last infraction). After which the next infraction regardless of severity would incur a 12mth ban or permaban at the discretion of the council
[10:12] <elkbuntu> nzk, mark 12days time in your diary and come back then. this decision is final.
[10:12] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: okay, agreed.
[11:21] <ubotu> Jordan_U called the ops in #ubuntu
[11:23] <Myrtti> holy hell
[11:23] <Hobbsee> wow, larger than normal
[11:24] <jussi01> lol, that seemed fun...
[11:28] <Hobbsee> yes...
[11:31] <Seeker`> "larger than normal"?
[11:31] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: um...
[11:31] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: yeah, the troll hit
[11:31] <Seeker`> ah, ok
[11:32] <Myrtti> there's a troll in -offtopic
[11:32] <Myrtti> I'm not sure what to do with him
[11:32] <Myrtti> you'd need to see him
[11:32] <Hobbsee> which one?
[11:33] <Myrtti> Ammi
[11:33] <Myrtti> [12:34]  < Ammi> I know from experience that ladies need to be harshly dealt  with when they even remotely appear to be acting out of hand.
[11:34] <gnomefreak> woah
[11:34] <gnomefreak> i told nzk he had to wait for seveas
[11:35] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: i decided otherwise, as seveas wasnt here.  and i'm still on the temporary council, while the full one is going thru
[11:35] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: i was repling on his comment that i siad he would be unbanned and i never said that
[11:36] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: ahhh...
[11:36] <Hobbsee> right
[11:38] <Myrtti> please do
[11:38] <Hobbsee> i need something to do it *for*, as i didnt just kickban when i first looked at it.
[11:39] <Hobbsee> which i was going to do..but felt slightly generous
[11:39] <Seeker`> isnt ban evasion against the rules?
[11:39] <jussi01> heh
[11:39] <gnomefreak> Seeker`: yes
[11:39] <Seeker`> ah, not banned, just kicked
[11:39] <nzk> ?
[11:39] <nzk> Kickban on me?
[11:40] <nzk> Why does everyone hate me :(
[11:40] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: removed
[11:40] <Hobbsee> nzk: because we've seen the way you act.
[11:40] <Seeker`> nzk: I wasn't talking about you
[11:40] <nzk> Hobbsee, One isn't judged by 4 seconds
[11:40] <Hobbsee> nzk: indeed.  that's why i didnt :)
[11:41] <Hobbsee> Myrtti: any idea if this guy is just smoking crack tonight, or is just usually offensive?
[11:41] <Myrtti> I've never seen him before
[11:41] <Hobbsee> right
[11:44] <jussi01> Hobbsee: i love your reason... lol
[11:44] <Hobbsee> hehe :)
[11:44] <Hobbsee> may as well have something descriptive on the bantracker.
[11:44] <jussi01> heh, yeps
[11:44] <Hobbsee> he'll probably try to evade that, looking at the IP
[11:46] <Myrtti_> see Hobbs
[11:46] <Seeker`> what is the bantracker? just /mode #channel +b?
[11:46] <Seeker`> or a website or something?
[11:46] <Myrtti> http://www.undernet.de/webchat.php
[11:47] <gnomefreak> Seeker`: website
[11:47] <Seeker`> ah, ok
[11:47] <Hobbsee> Myrtti: true that
[11:47] <gnomefreak> Seeker`: /mode #channel -b is the ban list for that channel
[11:47] <Hobbsee> no, i banned by real name as well, which was the website
[11:47] <Myrtti> wow, it really even shows my ip-address
[11:47] <Seeker`> gnomefreak: Yeah,  I was just wondering if "bantracker" is different terminology for that or not
[11:48] <gnomefreak> the bot keeps track of bans :)
[11:48] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: the bantracker is a thing that seveas wrote
[11:48] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: thank goodness for that :P
[11:48] <gnomefreak> your not kidding
[11:49] <Seeker`> wow, there are a lot of bans in #ubuntu
[11:50] <GazzaK> Seeker`, a lot of trolls without a bridge
[11:50] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: yeah...and that was after the big freenode crash
[11:50] <Seeker`> big freenode crash?
[11:50] <gnomefreak> Seeker`: most are forwards from exploit
[11:52] <Hobbsee> Seeker`: there was one a while ago
[11:53] <Seeker`> fair enough
[12:06] <ubotu> In ubotu, lliktsum said: she is mean!
[12:09] <Jordan_U> lyndis is trolling in #ubuntu
[12:11] <ubotu> bruenig called the ops in #ubuntu
[12:13] <Hobbsee> oh le sigh
[12:13] <Hobbsee> Jordan_U: yes, we know, we can see with the !ops call
[12:14] <Jordan_U> Hobbsee, I said that before anyone called !ops
[12:14] <Hobbsee> oh, true
[12:14] <Hobbsee> sorry
[12:15] <jussi01> heh, looks like a busy morning for the ops :)
[12:16] <Hobbsee> i'm going on a troll hunt...
[12:16] <Hobbsee> yeah
[12:16] <jussi01> hehe
[12:16] <GazzaK> we have a pet one in ubuntuforums, but he/she is playing nice
[12:16] <Seeker`> Hobbsee: I bet you wished you got paid per troll you had to kick :P
[12:17] <Hobbsee> haha
[12:17] <jussi01> GazzaK: you mean lliktsum?
[12:17] <GazzaK> yeah
[12:17] <jussi01> hehe
[12:17] <Seeker`> GazzaK: Where are you an op?
[12:18] <Hobbsee> ahh, i was wondering about lliktsum but didnt see them in #ubuntu
[12:18] <GazzaK> -uk, #gaygeeks and ##apple  Seeker`
[12:19] <Seeker`> cool
[12:35] <jenda> GazzaK: highlight me please :)
[12:35] <GazzaK> jenda, do I have to? meh
[12:35] <jenda> bah
[12:35] <GazzaK> phew no autokick, yay
[12:36] <jenda> my GUI notifs are dead :/
[12:37] <jenda> meh :)
[12:37] <jenda> GazzaK: one more time, please :)
[12:37] <GazzaK> jenda, do I have to? meh
[12:37] <GazzaK> either work?
[12:37] <jenda> great :)
[12:37] <jenda> thx
[12:38] <GazzaK> whats it do?
[12:38] <Seeker`> s/imagine/imagine gazzak
[12:38] <GazzaK> jenda - do you love me?
[12:38] <jenda> GazzaK: nope, not really.
[12:38] <jenda> hmm
[12:38] <jenda> and it doesn't even seem to work any more :/
[12:38] <Hobbsee> havent kickbanned anyone in 10 mins.  something is wrong.
[12:39] <GazzaK> there was one just then in #ubuntu but you missed it
[12:39] <PriceChild> 83.230's only get one warning... grr
[12:40] <Seeker`> Hobbsee: I'm sure GazzaK will start trolling if you ask him nicely :P
[12:40] <GazzaK> lol
[12:40] <Hobbsee> heh
[12:40] <GazzaK> and get the wrath of Hobbsee, nothxbye
[12:40] <jenda> 12:38 < mcuenca> ablar kojones
[12:40] <jenda> I banned him.
[12:40] <Hobbsee> jenda: what's that?
[12:40] <jenda> (although he left)
[12:40] <jenda> Hobbsee: cojones = balls
[12:41] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[12:41] <jenda> ablar might be 'have'
[12:41] <GazzaK> hows it pronounced?
[12:41] <jenda> kohoness
[12:41] <PriceChild> Hobbsee, I did that to here for about an hour a bit ago and it just made them join/spam/part more it seemed...
[12:41] <Hobbsee> and it goes earily quiet....
[12:41] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[12:41] <Hobbsee> true
[01:29] <jrib> hmm are the bots coming...
[01:29] <Hobbsee> incomming bot clone...
[01:30] <stylus> hrm, no good
[01:32] <Hobbsee> jrib: id' stay +o - even just to thrwo them off.
[01:33] <Myrtti> should I?
[01:33] <Hobbsee> Myrtti: go ahead
[01:33] <Hobbsee> Myrtti: wont hurt, to say the least, with all the stuff that's happened tonight
[01:33] <Hobbsee> might calm people down a bit, not make them so stupid
[01:35] <jrib> sigh
[01:36] <PriceChild> *hits house on the tv for not paying more attention in #ubuntu*
[01:36] <PriceChild> a couple were still going through to -unregged...
[01:37] <Seeker`> woo, trolltastic
[01:39] <PriceChild> *wonders if staff are aware...?
[01:40] <Seeker`> PriceChild: Cant hurt to tell them
[01:41] <PriceChild> !staff
[01:41] <ubotu> Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, BearPerson or ompaul! I could use a bit of your time :)
[01:41] <seanw> Hey
[01:41] <seanw> Thanks, we're aware
[01:41] <PriceChild> thankyou :)
[01:41] <jenda> yo
[01:41] <PriceChild> I think they've "just" stopped running into -unregged...
[01:42] <seanw> hah, painful :\
[01:42] <seanw> PriceChild, it's still +r, fyi
[01:43] <PriceChild> yeah, might be an idea to keep that on for a bit...?
[01:43] <seanw> Fine, fine, just letting you know as you seem to keep going -R :-)
[01:43] <PriceChild> well... unregged nicks will be talking in #ubuntu and not realise its only 4 of us hearing :P
[01:44] <Myrtti> kjeh
[01:45] <jrib> I -R a while ago :)
[01:46] <PriceChild> so you did :)
[01:54] <PriceChild> jrib, lets -r...?
[01:55] <jrib> PriceChild: sure, was thinking the same thing
[02:05] <Hobbsee> i *knew* that as soon as i left the keyboard, they'd attack
[02:06] <Hobbsee> hah
[02:06] <PriceChild> *imagines hobbsee walking around with the tips of her fingers glued to the keyboard and smirks*
[02:10] <Seeker`> Hobbsee: get a laptop and carry it round with you :D
[02:10] <Hobbsee> heh
[02:10] <Hobbsee> this is a laptop
[02:11] <PriceChild> simple things...
[02:11] <Seeker`> Hobbsee: You have (almost) no excuse for being afk then :P
[02:11] <Hobbsee> heh
[02:12] <Seeker`> if my laptop weren't dying, i'd carry it round the house with me
[02:12] <Seeker`> i think the hard drive is borked :(
[05:00] <PriceChild> Hi Gasten, how can we help?
[05:00] <Gasten> PriceChild: ?
[05:00] <Gasten> I've been forwarded to thi channel for 5 month, and never been asked what i need :)
[05:01] <PriceChild> I've never seen you before which is why I asked :)
[05:01] <Gasten> Well, sure.
[05:01] <PriceChild> from what channel?
[05:01] <Gasten> So, When I try to join #ubuntu-offtopic, I get forwarded here.
[05:01] <Gasten> it were due to a unappropriate quit-message.
[05:01] <PriceChild> ah I see.
[05:01] <Gasten> it's change now.,
[05:02] <PriceChild> from april... hardly 5 months
[05:02] <Gasten> changed*
[05:02] <PriceChild> could I see? :)
[05:02] <Gasten> PriceChild: Damn.. those ops.. :D
[05:02] <Gasten> sure.
[05:02] <Gasten> you want me to quit?
[05:03] <PriceChild> would be nice to see what its changed to, though if you promise its changed I'll believe you :)
[05:03] <Daviey> ./cs ban Gasten #nice return suprise
[05:03] <PriceChild> hehe
[05:04] <Gasten> PriceChild: That's ok?
[05:04] <PriceChild> Yes thanks :)
[05:04] <Gasten> Thank you.
[05:14] <GazzaK> wonder what his message was
[05:15] <Daviey> GazzaK: search the bantracker?
[05:15] <Daviey> then give me a linky :)
[05:16] <GazzaK> that takes effort
[05:16] <GazzaK> lol
[06:02] <ciberpunk69> hola
[06:29] <ubotu> kitche called the ops in #ubuntu
[06:30] <PriceChild> Really tempting for us to just ban 83.230.*....
[06:31] <Hobbsee> they're clearly misbehaving
[06:31] <Hobbsee> i say send tehm here at least
[06:31] <PriceChild> that didn't work really
[06:32] <GazzaK> set up a round robbin, send them to one channel, get that to auto forward them some other place etc etc
[07:29] <ubotu> In #ubuntu-in, mehulved said: ubotu, the problem is that both your nicks are similar :P
[07:30] <Pici> ...
[07:34] <Myrtti> eh
[07:36] <jussi01> hehe
[09:06] <Daviey> Hey, can we get some factoids removed from a channel?
[09:06] <Sonicadvance1> It seems that I've been banned from #ubuntu due to the port 6667 bug
[09:06] <PriceChild> Hey Daviey, which ones?
[09:06] <PriceChild> Sonicadvance1, hey, reconnected on 8001?
[09:06] <Seeker`> !ohmy
[09:06] <ubotu> Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.
[09:06] <Seeker`> !language
[09:06] <Sonicadvance1> Yes
[09:07] <Daviey> and !inappropriate
[09:07] <PriceChild> Sonicadvance1, you may rejoin #ubuntu :)
[09:07] <Daviey> PriceChild: it's causing botabuse and tension having them
[09:07] <Sonicadvance1> Thank you
[09:07] <PriceChild> Daviey, what channel? Why can't you just not use them?
[09:07] <Daviey> #ubuntu-uk
[09:07] <Seeker`> PriceChild: People abuse them
[09:08] <Seeker`> PriceChild: look for about 2pm
[09:08] <PriceChild> I can't remove them from that channel... but I could replace them with nothingness kinda thing
[09:08] <Daviey> that would be better
[09:08] <gnomefreak> remove the people not the factoids as the factoids didnt do anything wrong
[09:08] <PriceChild> wait but shouldn't they be following the CoC in a CC approved LoCo channel?
[09:08] <Daviey> PriceChild: can ubotu msg the sender a custom message instead
[09:08] <Daviey> ?
[09:08] <Seeker`> PriceChild: We are trying to follow the CoC
[09:08] <gnomefreak> CC approved yes even not CC approved yes
[09:09] <Seeker`> but it gets annoying when you get 3 or 4 people going !ohmy
[09:09] <PriceChild> Finds logs
[09:09] <Daviey> We want to try and deal with incidents differently
[09:09] <Daviey> rather than people firijg off factoids
[09:09] <gnomefreak> as far as i know #ubuntu-* has to follow the CoC
[09:09] <Seeker`> gnomefreak: We can follow the CoC without !ohmy
[09:10] <gnomefreak> Seeker`: than dont use it :)
[09:10] <PriceChild> so don't use it...
[09:10] <Seeker`> PriceChild: I dont, others do
[09:10] <Seeker`> that is the problem
[09:10] <gnomefreak> someone says !ohny and all hell breaks loose?
[09:10] <Seeker`> we have several people on the channel that insist on abusing it, and we feel that it would be a better solution to get it changed to nothingness rather than ban people
[09:10] <Seeker`> gnomefreak: in a word, yes
[09:11] <PriceChild> Reading it I don't think its the factoid that's the problem...
[09:11] <Seeker`> PriceChild: The factoid annoys several people
[09:11] <Seeker`> including me
[09:11] <PriceChild> I can understand that..
[09:11] <Seeker`> even when it isn't directed at me
[09:11] <gnomefreak> we cant really pull a factoid out of one channel but you can make !ohmy#ubuntu-uk is <reply> stop screwing with the bot
[09:12] <Seeker`> that would be good
[09:12] <PriceChild> I still don't want to.
[09:12] <gnomefreak> lol
[09:12] <PriceChild> There are people in that channel with attitudes who need to learn how to behave.
[09:12] <Seeker`> PriceChild: we are working on that
[09:12] <GazzaK> PriceChild, stop looking at me
[09:12] <gnomefreak> i have tro agree with PriceChild its not needed if people stop playing with it. tell the ops to do thier job?
[09:13] <gnomefreak> s/tro/to
[09:13] <GazzaK> gnomefreak, their\
[09:13] <Daviey> PriceChild: can it be made to msg the user saying please contact an op if you have a problem etc?
[09:13] <PriceChild> *wonders about pming the people he sees stand out on the log*
[09:13] <gnomefreak> botabuse is punnisable by kick
[09:13] <Daviey> PriceChild: don't please
[09:13] <Seeker`> I was afk at the time. The problem is that several people see it as a joke
[09:13] <Daviey> PriceChild: it will cause more problems atm
[09:14] <GazzaK> PriceChild, we will try to sort them out ourselves first please
[09:14] <PriceChild> *takes his nasty hat off*
[09:14] <GazzaK> once we get ubuntu ops involved it takes it to the next level, something we are dying to not happen
[09:14] <PriceChild> yeah
[09:15] <PriceChild> Just tell them straight in PM if their behaviour is unacceptable
[09:15] <Seeker`> PriceChild: its not that simple
[09:15] <GazzaK> gnomefreak, since it is not a main support channel, but more of a social ish channel, being heavy might be seen as bossy
[09:15] <PriceChild> GazzaK, but I thought there was a problem?
[09:15] <Daviey> yeah, we don't like that style
[09:16] <Daviey> an unrelated problem that ubotu is making worse
[09:21] <PriceChild> hmmm
[09:28] <Seeker`> out of interest, does the CoC mandate no swearing?
[09:28] <gnomefreak> !coc
[09:28] <ubotu> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
[09:28] <PriceChild> "be respectful" kind of thing
[09:28] <gnomefreak> sorry couldnt help it :)
[09:29] <Seeker`> PriceChild: doesn't really answer the question :P
[09:29] <PriceChild> along with "be considerate", you don't know who's around... and so you should be poilte so you don't offend
[09:29] <GazzaK> so is "respectful" the same as no swearing?
[09:29] <GazzaK> ie if it fitted the convo, could a swear word be totally okay
[09:29] <PriceChild> along with consideration for others
[09:29] <GazzaK> if it were a common use word
[09:30] <Seeker`> does referring to an old computer as "s***" count as being unconsiderate, or not respectful
[09:30] <GazzaK> ie if it is a word often used on telly, before 9pm
[09:30] <PriceChild> well is the s word a bad word or not?
[09:30] <Seeker`> PriceChild: I think as long as it isn't directed at someone, no
[09:30] <PriceChild> scratch that...
[09:31] <GazzaK> can I give examples?
[09:31] <Seeker`> but thats my PoV
[09:31] <PriceChild> is there a very real possiblity that someone would read the s word as being a "nasty word"
[09:31] <GazzaK> without getting kicked :p
[09:31] <Daviey> This is a problem we've been having for months; some poeople feel the need to use bad language and others won't accept it
[09:31] <PriceChild> this is your opinion that matters... seen as you're the operators in the channel
[09:31] <PriceChild> you make the decision
[09:31] <GazzaK> thats what I thought
[09:31] <Daviey> PriceChild: we are split
[09:31] <PriceChild> but IMO you should want to be open to all
[09:32] <PriceChild> if you allow bad language, you turn some away who don't like it... if you don't allow bad language, then you keep those people, and there's also no reason why those who don't mind language would want to leave
[09:32] <Seeker`> there are people that feel that it is unfair to stop them using the language they normally use
[09:32] <PriceChild> I would say that those who want the "right" to use bad language despite if making others feel uncomfortable should think twice
[09:32] <nixternal> don't kick/ban on a swear word, politely warn them to try and keep it a family friendly channel. if they don't listen, quiet them for a bit
[09:32] <Seeker`> especially if it isn't aimed at anyone
[09:33] <nzk> If they want to be there, they have to go by the rules
[09:33] <PriceChild> nzk, "guidelines" :P
[09:33] <nzk> You don't go into a school and talk "like you normally do"
[09:33] <gnomefreak> PriceChild: see !rules
[09:33] <nzk> So why should you expect to go into a civilized room and do that?
[09:33] <Seeker`> the problem is that one of the ops has that view, and is quite adament
[09:34] <nzk> My opinion would be a 15 min kickban with a message not to swear on the first offense
[09:34] <nzk> Then operator's discretion on subsequent ones
[09:35] <gnomefreak> its always best to air on the cautious side of things that way you dont upset all people, either way someone isnt gonna like the rules thats why there are ops
[09:35] <GazzaK> what about if the person getting this kickban would take great offence at it?
[09:35] <Seeker`> and what counts as a swear word? i'm sure there are people that are offended by "damn"
[09:35] <Seeker`> or crap
[09:35] <PriceChild> well then that's operator discression
[09:35] <PriceChild> have you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/OperatorGuidelines ?
[09:35] <Seeker`> but they are in day-to-day usage by most people
[09:35] <nzk> The only people offended by Damn or Crap are soccer mom church people
[09:35] <nzk> Who wouldn't be near IRC
[09:36] <Daviey> PriceChild: operator discression is not good!
[09:36] <Seeker`> nzk: They are still people, they still might want to take part
[09:36] <PriceChild> nzk, (this may not be my opinion) so that means its ok that they aren't allowed to feel comfortable in the channel?
[09:36] <gnomefreak> Daviey: than there is trust missing
[09:36] <nzk> Most people are adults, if they find something offensive then they can leave or politely ask the offender to stop.
[09:36] <Seeker`> if you use the argument "people may be offended by x", it is always possible to take it to the point where someone would be offended by everything
[09:36] <Daviey> gnomefreak: no not all, just a difference of opinion
[09:36] <PriceChild> Daviey, our operator guidelines are left intentionally vague in many areas...
[09:37] <nzk> Or perhaps have some sort of censoring or something on their IRC client
[09:37] <nzk> Seeker`, people who are offended by everything should not expect to go into somewhere and be comfortable
[09:37] <Daviey> nzk: maybe i can punch you; and you need to hold a shield up?
[09:37] <Seeker`> nzk: But at what level do you draw the line?
[09:37] <nzk> Daviey, I don't own a shield
[09:38] <Daviey> and i don't own censoring in irc clients
[09:38] <Seeker`> when do you say to one person, "stop being so uptight" and to another, "you are right, that is offensive"?
[09:38] <PriceChild> This is the whole point... its a decision you need to make as a group of operators. However I don't want to find people being uncomfortable in a channel with no swearing
[09:38] <nzk> Seeker`, my personal list, in order of badness of words, is Damn > A word > S word > F word from lowest to highest
[09:39] <nzk> Damn and Crap could be allowed, they exist to replace the worse words
[09:39] <ubotu> Jamesinator called the ops in #ubuntu
[09:39] <Seeker`> but is "damn you" (i.e. directed at someone) < he kicked me in the a**?
[09:40] <nzk> Seeker`, Those were arrows, not greater than signs
[09:40] <GazzaK> Well I would tend to think those words as pretty okay in the right (ie not directed at someone, but a thing, ie this computer is shit) context, but the see you next tuesday word is my idea of the worst
[09:40] <Seeker`> nzk: I;m trying to make the point that context matters
[09:40] <nzk> What would that word be?
[09:40] <nzk> Seeker`, yeah, I know
[09:40] <PriceChild> brb bot in #ubuntu...
[09:41] <GazzaK> spell it out nzk "see you Next Tues"
[09:41] <GazzaK> I hate that particular word
[09:41] <nzk> I don't get why it's so bad
[09:42] <LoudMouthMan> Hey , Seeker do you mean here ?
[09:42] <Seeker`> nzk: Try telling that to my housemate. If you say that word, you get hit
[09:42] <Seeker`> LoudMouthMan: yes
[09:42] <nzk> As Aesop so eloquently stated, you cannot please everyone.
[09:42] <GazzaK> in normal use the see you NT word is always meant offensively
[09:42] <nzk> Seeker`, I assume you are British/Irish/Non-American English speaker
[09:42] <bobgill> ok i need to be tested
[09:42] <Seeker`> nzk: I;m english
[09:43] <nzk> Yeah, here in USA I _never_ hear that word
[09:43] <Seeker`> nzk: I realise that you cant please everyone - what we wanted was some guidance on how many people we should be aiming to please
[09:43] <nzk> Context, like you said
[09:43] <bobgill> Hey I need to be tested I was forwarded to #ubuntu-read-topic
[09:43] <GazzaK> it's a very derogatory term for a womans private area nzk
[09:43] <nzk> GazzaK, ...I know
[09:44] <GazzaK> did not know if they used a different word there
[09:44] <nzk> If someone says like "Hey! nzk eats s***!" its bannable, but if someone is like "Aww s*** this s***ty piece of dog s*** is ****ing acting up again" that's also unnecessarily overdone and bannable
[09:45] <Seeker`> but what about "my computer is a piece fo s***"?
[09:45] <PriceChild> bobgill, hey yes will do
[09:45] <nzk> Seeker`, that's fine
[09:45] <PriceChild> bobgill, please rejoin #ubuntu :)
[09:47] <bobgill> PriceChild: thx
[09:47] <GazzaK> nzk, yeah, that would be a bit OTT
[09:47] <nzk> Your obscure acronym confuses nzk
[09:47] <GazzaK> but just a few of those stars would be kinda okay if the guy/girl was annoyed
[09:47] <PriceChild> Why does someone need to use bad words?
[09:47] <GazzaK> OTT Over The Top
[09:47] <PriceChild> is it an addiction?
[09:47] <Seeker`> OTT =  over the top
[09:47] <Daviey> PriceChild: limited vocab' :P
[09:47] <nzk> PriceChild, because it's emphasis
[09:47] <PriceChild> will they suffer if they are forced not to?
[09:48] <nzk> It feels good to yell them out
[09:48] <PriceChild> nzk, in my opinion it just lowers your credibility
[09:48] <GazzaK> PriceChild, people use bad words when they are annoyed, angry, excited, etc
[09:48] <PriceChild> But they don't "need" to?
[09:48] <nzk> Ahh, screw it, I vote for full censorship.
[09:48] <Daviey> or can't be bothered to _think_ of a decent word?
[09:48] <PriceChild> censorship is bad 8-)
[09:48] <nzk> I even censor
[09:48] <Daviey> it's too easy to say ****ing good
[09:48] <PriceChild> Daviey, well then is the opinion worth hearing by others?
[09:48] <nzk> If my mom is watching something I don't like I turn it off and yell at her
[09:48] <Seeker`> PriceChild: Why does someone need to use the word unhappy if they can use the word sad
[09:49] <PriceChild> they don't _need_ to.
[09:49] <nzk> I know, right.
[09:50] <nzk> If they want to come in here and get help with their problems or whatever then they should follow the rules, read the guidelines, IINAE, etc.
[09:50] <Seeker`> they dont _need_ to swear, but it may be part of the way they express themselves
[09:50] <PriceChild> So if they don't need to swear... then they can live without it?
[09:50] <nzk> Yes, they can.
[09:51] <PriceChild> and it won't be detrimental to them whatsoever
[09:51] <nzk> I swear infront of my friends all the time, but I haven't infront of my parents in years. People on IRC can restrain themselves too.
[09:51] <PriceChild> (Again, it is your decision to make, not mine)
[09:52] <Seeker`> PriceChild: we are trying to sort it now
[09:52] <PriceChild> If you allow bad language though, it very well could be detrimental to the channel, if you make others feel uncomfortable, and decide not to continue in the community.
[09:52] <nzk> Just disallow it, less headaches.
[09:53] <nzk> Be right back, sleep.
[09:59] <Daviey> anyway PriceChild the core issue; can ubotu message a private message to the issuer when !ohmy is used
[10:00] <PriceChild> short answer is no
[10:00] <Daviey> can i have a longer answer..
[10:00] <Daviey> just wondering how long you can make Noooooooooo
[10:00] <Daviey> :)
[10:00] <PriceChild> it would require changing the code... which I doubt we would want to do... even if seveas was aruond to do it
[10:01] <PriceChild> which he isn't
[10:01] <Daviey> Is he still away sunnin' it?
[10:01] <PriceChild> something like that
[10:32] <jrib> I would ask the abusers to stop and if they don't, ban them from ubotu
[10:32] <Seeker`> jrib: I think we have managed tocome to a conclusion now :D
[10:33] <PriceChild> cool, what's that?
[10:33] <Seeker`> mild swearing not directed at anyone is ok
[10:33] <Seeker`> anything else is bad
[10:33] <Seeker`> with S*** being the borderline case
[10:33] <ompaul> !ohmy
[10:33] <ubotu> Please watch your language and keep this channel family friendly.
[10:35] <Seeker`> awww
[10:35] <GazzaK> !opabuse
[10:35] <Seeker`> no fair
[10:35] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about opabuse - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[10:36] <ompaul> GazzaK, pm
[10:37] <ompaul> !opabuse
[10:37] <ubotu> opabuse is leave the ops alone ktnxbye
[10:37] <GazzaK> lol
[10:37] <GazzaK> !opabuse
[10:37] <ubotu> opabuse is leave the ops alone ktnxbye
[10:38] <GazzaK> phew, it doesn't kick me
[10:38] <nalioth> aww, that's no fun
[10:39] <GazzaK> hehe
[10:39] <GazzaK> how did ya kick with no oppy
[10:39] <PriceChild> GazzaK, i'll give you one guess
[10:40] <Seeker`> PriceChild: magic!
[10:41] <nalioth> GazzaK: you blinked and missed it
[10:43] <ompaul> GazzaK, nalioth it the internet
[10:43] <ompaul> woops :)
[11:12] <ubotu> etalli called the ops in #ubuntu
[11:21] <ubotu> CommonAlgorithms called the ops in #ubuntuforums
[12:24] <Beastlykings> hello?
[12:25] <PriceChild> Hey Beastlykings
[12:25] <PriceChild> want a test?
[12:25] <Beastlykings> I know it'll fail
[12:25] <Beastlykings> I don't understand how to fix my router
[12:25] <PriceChild> Well then don't try... just reconnect to freenode on port 8001
[12:26] <Beastlykings> I heard about doing that
[12:26] <Beastlykings> But I can't figure out how to make chatzilla do that
[12:26] <nalioth> Beastlykings: send chatzilla to /dev/null and use a dedicated IRC client
[12:27] <Beastlykings> ok, you mean get rid of this irc client and use a different better one?
[12:28] <gnomefreak> most are better than chatzilla In my opinion
[12:28] <gnomefreak> :X
[12:28] <PriceChild> Beastlykings, if you still want to use chatzilla... it will be in the optinos somewhere to change the default port
[12:28] <Beastlykings> I can use a different one
[12:28] <Beastlykings> Xchat you say?
[12:29] <Beastlykings> downloading now
[12:29] <Beastlykings> installing...
[12:32] <Beastlykings> sweet thanks, I didn't change ports or nothing but I just cannected with Xchat
[12:48] <nixternal> OK bot gods, I need ubotu in #ubuntu-chicago to give me bug info when requested