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Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 04 Jul 16:00: Kubuntu Developers | 04 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 17:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team === dholbach [n=daniel@i59F7240E.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure_ [n=lure@external-1.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cynics [n=cynics@211.94.35.200] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tkjacobsen [n=tkjacobs@h59ec0f85.c45-01-03.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tkjacobsen [n=tkjacobs@h59ec0f85.c45-01-03.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === beuno [n=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined 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[n=emilio@139.Red-83-32-162.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === _StefanS_ [n=sfs@ubuntu/member/stefans/x-00001] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === _StefanS_ [n=sfs@ubuntu/member/stefans/x-00001] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Konversation] === dholbach [n=daniel@i59F7228F.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === thekorn [n=thekorn@a89-182-80-211.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === _StefanS_ [n=sfs@ubuntu/member/stefans/x-00001] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 04 Jul 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Jul 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team === xerosis_ [n=kieran@cpc2-shep5-0-0-cust722.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === avoine [n=avoine@69.70.0.36] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dthacker [n=dthacker@ip68-107-233-209.om.om.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Jucato [n=jucato@ubuntu/member/Jucato] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === etalli [n=etalli@c-68-43-124-79.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hollandlucas [n=lucas@i577A37DE.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === abattoir [n=abattoir@59.92.63.51] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pag [n=pavel@cs181123229.pp.htv.fi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === waylandbill [n=waylandb@70-101-124-72.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:00] *** Welcome to this month's Kubuntu Meeting **** [04:00] I have no https access, if someone can paste the agenda that would be cool [04:01] # [04:01] How should we handle programs that need to install codecs? Do we want to just install kubuntu-restricted-extras, or do we want to patch every application so that it installs the required codecs with a dialog from the user? [04:01] # [04:01] The amarok version of this is quite buggy - it breaks if you've disabled multiverse for some reason, and seems to crash on some systems. [04:01] # [04:01] KDE debian/ dirs in Bzr- how do we want to handle this? [04:01] # === jussi01 [n=jussi@dyn3-82-128-187-102.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:01] No one has seemed to have actioned the points Sho_ (konversation) raised in the last meeting - who wants to do this? [Above 4 by Hobbsee] [04:01] and tonio wants to discuss media patches === mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o Hobbsee] by ChanServ === Tonio_ [n=tonio@mst45-2-82-242-83-37.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === LongPointyStick [n=mystery@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o Hobbsee] by ChanServ === sveri [n=sveri@91.65.216.222] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hobbsee waits for her connection to decide to live === tkjacobsen [n=tkjacobs@h59ec0f85.c45-01-03.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === vandenoever [i=vandenoe@conference/kde/aKademy/x-28ede5912478f0d8] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === kniolet [n=kniolet@12-210-145-71.client.mchsi.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:03] coming live from Akademy 2007 here in (genuinely) sunny Glasgow [04:03] gasp. sunny? [04:03] who's here? === Riddell jonathan Riddell [04:03] yop === Tonio_ is Anthony Mercatante === Hobbsee green alien. === Lure is Luka Renko === maelcum [i=horst@conference/kde/aKademy/x-2720ce6883110604] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mhb is Martin Bohm === waylandbill is Billy Pollifrone [04:04] <_StefanS_> _StefanS_ is Stefan Skotte === xerosis is Kieran Hogg [04:04] dthacker is Dave Thacker === allee is Achim Bohnet === tkjacobsen [n=tkjacobs@h59ec0f85.c45-01-03.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:04] Any membership candidates? [04:04] doesnt appear to be any listed on the wiki === Jucato is Juan Carlos Torres [04:05] council is me, Lure, Tonio_, Hobbsee, nixternal (if he's alive) [04:05] Hobbsee: o you're doing the meeting now ? cool :) [04:05] Hobbsee: what's our first item? === jussi01 is Jussi Scultink [04:06] Next meeting will probably be Wednesday 1 August, 2100 UTC or so. Any objections? [04:06] and kwwii if around? === tkjacobsen [n=tkjacobs@h59ec0f85.c45-01-03.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:06] ahh ah kubuntu council meeting nice [04:06] Hobbsee: okay for me === jsgotangco watches [04:06] hi spam [04:06] cool. will email the list, etc, pending uni timetable [04:06] fine with me [04:06] onto the agenda of doom... [04:07] Okay, first point - if we've got kubuntu stuff that you want to see done for a particular tribe, please tell me, and i can milestone it, and poke you over it if you dont get it done. === rodrigo_sampaio [n=rodrigo@c93401c8.virtua.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mindspin [n=mindspin@unaffiliated/mindspin] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:07] ditto for anything that you want to get thru a freeze === Hobbsee has no DC access, but will be the RM for tribe 3. [04:07] (assuming the plans dont change) [04:07] on a simliar note I'm an archive admin so you can try and poke me for new processing (if I havn't already touched the package) [04:07] and moving to main/universe [04:07] etc [04:07] that too [04:08] Riddell: great! [04:08] *** How should we handle programs that need to install codecs? Do we want to just install kubuntu-restricted-extras, or do we want to patch every application so that it installs the required codecs with a dialog from the user? [04:08] We now have a kubuntu-restricted-extras package, which contains the main codecs needed on a kubuntu system [04:08] kubuntu-restricted-extras has java, lots of people don't want that for playing mp3s [04:08] about codecs: do we have developer time to inplement decicated codec loading? A volunteer [04:08] Riddell: then we should take care to get kio-umountwrapper to main :) the MIR is done, just reviewing is needed [04:08] Riddell: that's why they're as removes [04:08] Riddell: er, recommends [04:08] unfortunately, i'ts currently broken. [04:08] Tonio_: that's will pitti/kees/iwj only [04:08] Tonio_: OK, will poke. [04:09] Riddell: oki [04:09] Hobbsee: one thing I'd like to see fixed for the next tribe is adept [04:09] allee: I'm afraid we don't [04:09] Hobbsee: the repo manager doesn't work anymore [04:09] Hobbsee: what else needs this added? just kaffeine? [04:10] mhb: so, makes not much sense to decide to patch every app ;) [04:10] Riddell: amarok, kaffeine, k3b, ... === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:10] Riddell: kmplayer too [04:10] Hobbsee: do we have a .desktop file in app-install-data for kubuntu-restricted-extras? [04:10] also konqueror, for the java, etc. [04:10] Tonio_: won't be in main for long? [04:10] btw, I think there were some people having problems with the script in amarok to install the codecs after the release of feisty... not sure if anyone filed bugs for it [04:10] can't we switch to gstreamer? AFAIU then we get codec loading almost for free? [04:10] Riddell: i doubt it. if we dont for ubuntu-restricted-extras either [04:10] Tonio_: kmplayer is universe now? === tkjacobsen [n=tkjacobs@h59ec0f85.c45-01-03.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:10] Jucato: that's next [04:10] Riddell: it'll stay in main, I guess forever, I'll explain why later if you want === etalli [n=etalli@c-68-43-124-79.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [04:10] Hobbsee: I thought there was one [04:10] Hobbsee: oops sorry.. [04:11] Riddell: not sure, tbh. [04:11] Riddell: we cannot use kaffeine in konq by default, which saddens me soooooooooooo much [04:11] Riddell: will have to look [04:11] Tonio_: why? [04:11] Jucato: no problem === rodrigo_sampaio [n=rodrigo@c93401c8.virtua.com.br] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] [04:11] Hobbsee, Riddell: because of the plugin identification [04:11] Tonio_: how not? [04:11] kaffeine ident itself as kaffeine media player plugin [04:12] Riddell: kmplayer is able to ident as the standard windows plugin used for this kind of source [04:12] allee: I agree with you, I had some talks with kaffeine upstream, they might consider a feature like that, but for KDE4 kaffeine [04:12] Tonio_: will come back to adept [04:12] Tonio_: interesting [04:12] Riddell: and a lot of website are doing plugin detection to display the video [04:12] Riddell: I tried to patch kaffeine to had this, but it didn't work, or only partially [04:13] Riddell: means the identification worked, but not any website could detect the "windows media player plugin" despite I could see it [04:13] Riddell: we need to discuss this with kaffeine upstream [04:13] and then replace kmplayer :) [04:13] The main questoin here is, do we want to patch each app to use each particular required codec separately, or do we want to jus tgrab k-r-e once [04:13] Hobbsee: without developers willing to do this I don't see much we can do [04:13] Riddell: where this == ? [04:13] so beeing stable is not enought for default inclusion, as it'll fail on a lot of websites [04:13] who try to detect "windows media player plugin" === j_ack [n=j_ack@p508D81A9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:14] grabbing k-r-e would be logical if there were only codecs and not stuff like java [04:14] mhb: is k-r-e install suitable for restricted-manager? [04:14] I had amarok crash (hang) loading mp3 codecs this morning. Wasn't able to reproduce so I didn't file a bug. === tkjacobsen [n=tkjacobs@h59ec0f85.c45-01-03.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:14] Hobbsee: remember the crappy "in the work" patch ? it was because of that problem :) [04:14] Tonio_: in the work? [04:14] Riddell: well, it's a metapackage. it's not a GUI [04:14] Riddell: restricted-manager is for drivers/firmware only [04:14] someone's coding a restricted-manager though. [04:14] the patch I shouldn't have upload because it caused a lot of issues ? :) you fixed that upload [04:14] Tonio_: oh, that one. [04:15] yep, the patch was an attempt for the plugin identification, which worked 60%, but I couldn't find why the websites couldn't detect it [04:15] Riddell: didn't the ubuntu guys use a patched gstreamer for codec reinstall? So when we switch to gstreamer too ..? [04:15] allee: yes, absolutely === tkjacobsen [n=tkjacobs@h59ec0f85.c45-01-03.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === am8110 [n=armin@dslb-084-058-051-107.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:16] err, is switching to gstreamer something that has been discussed? === karimfayez [n=karim@196.202.62.184] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:16] Tonio_: how's gstreamer working with the kde apps? [04:16] mhb: dozens :) [04:16] mhb: no go for kde 3, kde 4 sure once phonon has the plugin [04:16] allee: kaffeine : not as good as xine, but works [04:16] but remember gstreamer doesn't do dvd menus and I don't know how good the w32codecs support is [04:16] allee: amarok : no gst support :'( [04:16] kmplayer : very nice support [04:17] okay so we have to wait for KDE4 [04:17] allee: yes [04:17] Riddell: I wouldn't vote for gstreamer if it meant losing features [04:17] allee: yep, wait for phonon === kwwii [n=kwwii@khepri.openbios.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:18] Riddell: i guess i'm more interested in finding if there are any developers who are interested in doing this [04:18] Hobbsee: should we install all of k-r-e with amarok? [04:18] In this light the only workable solutions would be to down load k-r-e [04:18] Riddell: when the recommends are working, sure. [04:18] at the moment, it's an empty package :) [04:18] Hobbsee: if we want to download k-r-e, I'd try to make the package as small as possible === Hobbsee shoudl test out this apt about it [04:18] Hobbsee: how big it is, with java and all? [04:18] mhb: that's why i only left the core codecs in [04:18] not sure [04:19] sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ apt-cache show kubuntu-restricted-extras | grep Recommends [04:19] Recommends: flashplugin-nonfree, sun-java6-plugin, libxine1-ffmpeg, libdvdread3, libk3b2-mp3, liblame0, unrar [04:19] Hobbsee: is the java still in there? [04:19] yes [04:19] i dont know, size-wise [04:19] we need to move on [04:19] Riddell: true, but the next issue depends on this [04:19] I don't think anyone has expertese/time to work on this, it involves playing with upstream in difficult ways [04:20] I'm against installing java without the user requesting it === Hobbsee nods === dthacker agrees from the sidelines [04:20] jave -> suggests :) [04:20] Hobbsee: can't we do a kubuntu-restricted-codecs metapackage or something? [04:20] mhb: that's what it is [04:21] Hobbsee: java isn't a codec :o) [04:21] I'd say we get a .desktop file in app-install-data [04:21] that way it's easy for all to install [04:21] Riddell: sounds sane. which requires me finding out how to write one. but OK [04:21] Riddell: ++ [04:22] in that case, what do we want to do about the amarok install mp3 script? [04:22] it's in bash, and seems to fail for a fair few people [04:22] Riddell: that means = don't patch anything? [04:22] Hobbsee: just add and install somewhere and it should get picked up on upload [04:22] Hobbsee: keep it [04:22] mhb: not unless people are willing to do it [04:22] it doesnt account for if a user has disabled multiverse, and seems generally not-robust [04:23] Hobbsee: multiverse/universe is enabled by default since feisty, right? [04:23] Lure: yes [04:23] Lure: it is, but some users will disable it [04:23] Lure: what disturbs me more is how it just seems to hang amarok, etc. [04:23] there's a tribe 3 bug on it, unless Riddell removed the tribe 3 milestone completely while i wasnt there [04:23] Hobbsee: I'd say it differently [04:23] not I [04:24] Tonio_: how so? [04:24] Riddell, Hobbsee: who will disable multiverse ? [04:24] Freedom Lovers! [04:24] users. some. for some unknown reason [04:24] and the freedom lovers [04:24] (and people who want support) [04:24] Riddell: aka geeks [04:24] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers/+members is the relevant bug [04:24] Riddell: and a geek doesn't use amarok's script to install it's codecs :) [04:24] Riddell: nore has mp3 files on his computer [04:24] my point is that this should not randomly fail, and it should not up and die fi they have mutliverse disabled [04:25] Riddell: and btw doesn't use app-install/adept [04:25] Tonio_: sure they do - it comes up automatically if they try to play a mp3 for some reason. if they downloaded one [04:25] Hobbsee: okay [04:25] Hobbsee: you are a freedom lover === Hobbsee shrugs [04:25] Hobbsee: you hate proprietary formats, so you disable multiverse [04:25] i prefer my system to work, tyvm. [04:25] Hobbsee: would you play an mp3 file then ? [04:25] for normal users, when you click the button it should "just work" [04:25] hm... is this about the mp3 script in amarok? [04:26] probably not, and if it doesn't work, consider it is your fault [04:26] Hobbsee: wouldn't if ! apt-cache policy then; exit; fi # fix it? [04:26] Tonio_: if i'd not realised that it was a mp3, or something, probably [04:26] Jucato: yes [04:26] allee: exactly [04:26] Jucato: yes [04:26] Hobbsee: then you are a geek, you changed settings, that's your problem :) [04:26] Tonio_: granted, but the scritp should not be that flimsy that it dies. [04:26] iirc, libxine-extracodecs just points to libxine1-ffmpeg in main since feisty right? why does it need multiverse to be enabled? [04:26] Hobbsee: agree on that point [04:27] Jucato: it doesn't [04:27] it seems it particularly dies when you say "no" [04:27] Hobbsee: which is a problem [04:27] Jucato: oh, point [04:27] Tonio_: exactly [04:27] Tonio_: [04:27] er.. [04:27] http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/libs/libxine-extracodecs [04:27] Jucato: correct - we can have amarok mp3 by defaul [04:28] Lure: no we can't [04:28] er it's in universe lol sorry [04:28] Hobbsee: why is this milestoned for tribe 3? it can wait until feature freeze and we're in bug mode no? === Jucato could have sworn it was in main :P [04:28] Lure: I already discussed with -devel guys on that point [04:28] Riddell: sure it can, but it's to remind me, and preferably get it fixed sooner than that, so people test. [04:28] Hobbsee: I'm happy to fix it but not until after feature freeze === eagles0513875 [n=jonathan@88.203.73.158] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:28] Lure: it is in main for technical reasons, but we can't ship it by default becauseof licencing issues === claydoh [n=claydoh@66-252-49-185.dyn-adsl.midmaine.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:28] Lure: in fact that shouldn't be in main :) [04:29] Riddell: OK, will assign it to you [04:29] Riddell: excellent, thankyou :) [04:29] groovy [04:29] next item? [04:29] *** No one has seemed to have actioned the points Sho_ (konversation) raised in the last meeting - who wants to do this? [04:30] at least, the k-d-s settings havent been changed [04:30] oh, ellen gave a non commital answer but seemed to say that listview at the side was better than tabs [04:30] right [04:30] as did johnflux another occational konversation developer [04:30] imbrandon did say he did the other changes [04:30] i seem to remember we agreed to the other points though, which still seem to be in there? [04:30] Riddell: talking about that, I don't want to switch back to the default theme [04:30] but imbrandon seems to not be 100% reliable currently [04:31] Riddell: we probably want a "human readeable theme" by default, which the default konversation isn't [04:31] Riddell: hwo does imbrandon fit into this, sorry? === Jucato agrees with Tonio_ [04:31] Riddell: I wouldn't be inclined to change this [04:31] Hobbsee: he told me once he had made the required changes and was going to upload [04:31] ages ago this was [04:31] ah right [04:31] but the other suggestion was that we could probably help in making a better nicklist theme [04:31] it seems that he hasnt, so someone else needs to [04:32] Jucato: if we can find any better, okay, but not the default konversation is shipped wuth [04:32] wth [04:32] Jucato: true. i suspect kwwii's far too busy for it [04:32] rahhhhhhhh !! with [04:32] Hobbsee: can you remind me what is the problem with the current one ? [04:32] Tonio_: yeah. I don't like it either and have continually "discussed" that topic with Sho_ :) [04:32] Tonio_: iirc it was the quality of that theme [04:32] Jucato: it is simple, nice looking and icons are explicit to what they mean [04:33] what is the problem with it ? seriously ? [04:33] Tonio_: i dont have the direct link for sho_'s complaints about it === Jucato checks logs [04:33] Hobbsee: in my opinion, there is the upstream work and the distro work === Hobbsee has lost all logs since then [04:33] Tonio_: this is true. but upstream says "we want you to use this. only". as for why they havent removed the others then, i have no idea... [04:33] it is not the first time guy from konversation are complaining about the fact we're changing the defualt settings, and that honnestly drives me nuts [04:34] Hobbsee: they make things configurable, we configure them [04:34] Hobbsee: we respect the gpl, that's it [04:34] Tonio_: feel free to take it up with Sho_. [04:34] Hobbsee: if they don't want us to 'implement' it as we want, they can do proprietary software [04:34] Tonio_: no point doing it now, as Sho_ isnt here. he's on #konversation now though [04:34] to be fair, upstream's concern is that problems in Konversation introduced in Kubuntu usually gets thrown back at them [04:34] Hobbsee: especially as we're not changing it a lot [04:35] Hobbsee: can you imaging how much more are we twinking konqueror for example ? [04:35] Jucato: true that. which is why i'ts improtant to actually check k-d-s changes, which is still on my todo list [04:35] honestly sho isnt on the kubuntu team and we follow the gpl === imbrandon idles again [04:35] Jucato: that's a problem with ALL free softwares [04:35] Tonio_: "* Kubuntu has selected a different default nicklist theme from the set of themes we ship with Konversation. While we continue to ship that theme for legacy reasons, we be- lieve it is graphically poorly done and would prefer it if Kubuntu switched back to our default. Alternatively, we'd certainly look forward to artwork contributions from Kubuntu's artwork community if it has other things in mind. In particular, the issues [04:35] with the chosen theme are that the colour palette doesn't fit into either KDE or Kubuntu defaults, and that the serif typography looks outdated. - form Sho_ [04:35] Jucato: so what should we do ? stopping implementations ? [04:35] Tonio_: true that. i'm still not exactly convinced that's a good idea. [04:35] okay let's stop kubuntu then, no need of a distro [04:36] Tonio_: I don't necessarily agree with some of the suggestions (like the nicklist theme). but after all, they are just suggestions :) [04:36] Tonio_: I don't remember details. But Sho_ may have a point. We listen, then agree or not. [04:36] Jucato, thats our problems not thiers, they want to be involved in kubuntu then invite them to take the time to contrib, instead of bitching from afar ( upstream ) === imbrandon stops [04:36] :) [04:36] allee: I'm not against sho expecially, he may be right this time, but as imbrandon and I already had problems in the past.... [04:36] Jucato: did you have that website link? [04:36] I remember imbrandon getting mad on the channel because of this [04:37] Hobbsee: http://konversation.kde.org/kubuntu-issues.txt [04:37] Jucato: thanks [04:37] (it was in the minutes) [04:37] the sysray one.......... argh ! [04:37] heh :) [04:37] yay, be rid of the systray! === Hobbsee thought that was decided last meeting [04:37] Hobbsee: NO [04:37] ;) [04:37] say it with me Riddell, "system tray icons are EVIL!!!" [04:38] oh yes [04:38] Hobbsee: konversation is exactly the kind of application for which systray is usefull [04:38] Hobbsee: you open it in the morning and then wait, as you do with kopete [04:38] Tonio_: fully afree [04:38] Riddell: we could just outvote him... *g* [04:38] agree even [04:38] Hobbsee: all chat/email clients usually have systray enable by default, because you don't run them for 10 minutes only [04:38] it is the kind of apps that runs everytime in the background [04:39] honestly i'm of the opinion that if we just package vanalla upstream packages there is no reason for kubuntu then, anyhow i am at work and cant constructively contribute to the convo right now [04:39] Tonio_: geeks just start a thousand programs and leave them all running === claydoh likes the systray [04:39] Tonio_: minimizing it would serve the same purpose === _marseillais agree with Tonio_ for systray [04:39] icon [04:39] allee: no, certainly not [04:39] allee: cause it'll be merged with the all programs you are running [04:40] allee: systray isolates background based apps, like kopete, knetworkmanager etc...... [04:40] allee: ALL chat based apps run in the systray [04:40] allee: o reason to change that [04:40] allee: and btw everyone is free to change the default settings, it is just a matter of default [04:40] Tonio_: to be honest: I agree with you [04:40] we're not removing the functionnality right ? [04:40] why don't we justify having a systray icon based on its (intended) purpose instead of just saying that all other chat apps do it? for example, it serves as notification (which is the original intention of the system tray anyway) === allee hopes systray icons stays [04:41] I'll tell you something, I don't use it in the systray, but I'm really convicinced, that's the way the average people are waiting to use it [04:41] and I can argue on every point in the list.... [04:41] if we get rid of that one we should also get rid of the kontact, basket, and korganizer ones as well === Jucato would love to have a unified kontact systray icon instead :) [04:42] Tonio_: do you knwo about c++ patch for server setting - this is the only one I agree it may be too much from upstream [04:42] but well let's not waste time on this, I propose that we discuss together about what to do on -devel channel, let's apply the wanted changes, and write a nice response to the konversation team === yveslu [n=yves@217.31.69.98] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Kopete] [04:42] Lure: which one ? to switch to irc.ubuntu.com by default ? [04:42] Tonio_: mailing list is even better [04:42] Hobbsee: sure [04:42] Tonio_: we do it in konversationrc and in the c++ patch [04:42] Tonio_: how about copying the text file to the wiki and adding your points. I'll do so too. Just collecting pro/cons. NOOOO flaming. Then we can decide in next mmeetingn [04:42] Tonio_: yes, why patch? [04:43] Hobbsee: what about people that use konversation on gnome ? :) [04:43] that's why we are doing the fix twice [04:43] Tonio_: then they really want to join #ubuntu [04:43] Tonio_: we should not care about them [04:43] or are just confused individuals [04:43] Lure: I can remove that patch === seele [i=seele@nayuki.caffeine.nu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [04:43] hi seele [04:43] Lure: to be honnest I was asked to patch, of course my first action has been to do that in kds [04:43] in which case we want to send them to #white-padded-room *g* [04:43] hallo [04:44] can't we discuss this later ? it'll take hours to debate everything ;) [04:44] let's move on, we can do the non-controvertial changes and debate the others at leisure [04:44] Hobbsee: seele is here for membership [04:44] way cool. welcome seele! [04:44] hello [04:44] I'll do the changes to konversation if nobody else has by the time akademy is over [04:44] Riddell: I can do it [04:44] seele: able to give yourself a couple line introduction? [04:45] Tonio_: we should probably figure out Bzr stuff elsewhere, and provide a solution to the rest of the people. as long as they actually read the mailing list, and obey it. [04:45] Riddell: but I'd like that we debate once and for all on what to change/remove [04:45] Tonio_: ta [04:45] but seele's membership... :) === Hobbsee hands the mic to seele [04:45] Riddell, Hobbsee: added to my todo === seele takes the mic [04:45] Tonio_: great, OK [04:45] what do i say? [04:45] seele: what you've done in the ubuntu world [04:45] ah [04:45] well most of my work has been in the capacity of kde [04:46] i participated in UDS last fall and helped address some usability/interface stuff [04:46] i also started working on a GUI with mhb for GRUB (which hasnt been released for technical reasons) [04:46] also, this past spring i conducted user testing on the kubuntu version of ubiquity [04:46] and just recently provided the results to the community [04:47] i think working with kubuntu is a great way for me to work with other open source projects and maximize the time i can spend on kde :) [04:47] evand will pick that up, probably after freature freeze [04:47] plus kubuntu is just the bestest distro ever, so why not? [04:47] ok [04:47] :) [04:47] :) [04:47] :) [04:47] :) === allee add another :) [04:47] any questions for seele? [04:47] :) [04:48] yes, it is! [04:48] I know her well enough from conferences === Hobbsee attempts to think of one that she can ask [04:48] I would like to point out that ubiquity usability report is really great [04:48] seele: will you be in boston+1? [04:48] are non-council members allowed to ask? :) === imbrandon cheerleads for seele ( nto that she needs it ) just cuz she is super cool at the confrences and blogs and seen tons of cool stuff from her [04:48] I really hope some improvements will be done for gutsy [04:48] Jucato: of course [04:48] Hobbsee: i didnt know about boston+1 but probably since its in my time zone ;) [04:49] seele: boston+1 is in an unknown location, isnt it? :P === allee knows here from blogs [04:49] oh right [04:49] lol [04:49] Hobbsee: in or around MIT uni mid-november I think [04:49] Riddell: boston*+1* [04:49] as in, the one after boston. [04:49] seele: are you considering making a general usability review of Kubuntu? :) [04:49] oh, no idea === Hobbsee wow. people dont read today :P [04:49] actually, it is in the first week of november [04:49] Jucato: yes [04:49] Jucato: well.. it depends on what you means of "Kubuntu" because most of it is KDE [04:50] Jucato: that would need to be a KDE job (and since seele has been doing KDE 4 HIG...) [04:50] Jucato: i generally have a rule that if i dont think my work will be considered (let alone implemented) ill use my time on something else [04:50] yeah [04:50] all of KDE is a lot of work [04:50] seele: well, specifically the Kubuntu-specific ones/changes (like Konqueror? :) [04:50] thats what ive been trying to do for the past three years with them, hehe [04:50] Jucato: sure, if someone asks for it [04:50] :) [04:50] konqueror in KDE 4 is a lot like in kubuntu now === Tonio_ nods !!! [04:51] so, let's vote on seele [04:51] seele: +1 for me [04:51] +1 [04:51] +1 for me, no questoin [04:51] (+3 from me, if I had voting powers) [04:51] +25 from me ( but i dont count on this vote hehe ) [04:51] +1 from me based on great work until now [04:51] kwwii, nixternal, allee? [04:52] +1 from me [04:52] +1 for a super CC vote (if that counts) === jsgotangco hides [04:52] well, that's enough, congratulations seele on Kubuntu (and also Ubuntu) membership [04:52] thanks === allee +1 of course [04:52] seele: congrats :) [04:52] ( seele now i can legitly add your blog to the planet , lol ) [04:52] congrats seele! :) [04:52] imbrandon: please do [04:52] congrats :) [04:52] soo.. now what? do i need to so anything? [04:52] conrgratulation, now get to work! [04:52] kwwii: lol [04:52] :-) [04:52] no, someone will add you to the kubuntu-members team [04:53] seele: congrats [04:53] ok [04:53] Hobbsee: next item? [04:53]