[03:11] <zul> @schedule montreal
[03:11] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 05 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 11:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 20:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 13:00: Xubuntu Developers
[03:12] <man-di> @now
[03:12] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: July 05 2007, 13:12:26 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 6 hours 47 minutes
[05:20] <evand> @schedule New_York
[05:20] <ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 05 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 11:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 20:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 13:00: Xubuntu Developers
[09:02] <tkamppeter> @schedules
[09:03] <pochu> @schedule
[09:03] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 05 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 15:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 12:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 00:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 17:00: Xubuntu Developers
[09:05] <pyros_pyrotica> @schedule new york
[09:05] <ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 05 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 11:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 20:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 13:00: Xubuntu Developers
[09:05] <tkamppeter> @schedule lisboa
[09:06] <tkamppeter> @schedule london
[09:06] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 05 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Jul 16:00: Kernel Team | 11 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 14 Jul 01:00: MOTU Team | 14 Jul 18:00: Xubuntu Developers
[09:06] <tkamppeter> @now london
[09:06] <ubotu> Current time in Europe/London: July 05 2007, 20:07:00 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 52 minutes
[09:12] <tkamppeter> @now  porto
[09:12] <tkamppeter> @now lisbon
[09:12] <ubotu> Current time in Europe/Lisbon: July 05 2007, 20:12:59 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 47 minutes
[09:34] <agoliveira> Hi all.
[09:35] <dholbach> hiya
[09:37] <pitti> bonsoir
[09:40] <agoliveira> pitti: Bonjour Pitti. 'a va?
[09:41] <pitti> agoliveira: tres bien!
[09:42] <agoliveira> pitti: With that I depleted my french know-how :)
[09:42] <pitti> agoliveira: so did I :)
[09:43] <pitti> agoliveira: well, apart from 'deux bierres, sil-vous plais', of course :)
[09:43] <bdmurray> trois!
[09:43] <pitti> bah, "s'il vous plat"
[09:43] <pitti> bdmurray: oui, Monsieur!
[09:44] <kylem> bdmurray, "real ale"
[09:44] <pitti> bdmurray: I guess in London the hard part is choosing :)
[09:45] <agoliveira> pitti: That's something one should know in at least a dozen languages :)
[09:45] <bdmurray> "Portland is also known for its large number of microbreweries" so I am used to choosing
[09:50] <evand> hi everyone
[09:51] <agoliveira> evand: Yo!
[09:51] <mdz_> good evening, all
[09:51] <agoliveira> mdz_: Hi
[09:51] <pitti> hey mdz
[09:53] <fabbione> pong
[09:53] <bdmurray> pong
[09:53] <dendrobates> here
[09:54] <calc> ping
[09:54] <calc> er pong, something
[09:54] <kylem> yawn.
[09:54] <agoliveira> mdz: Loved your picture at launchpad. I stumbled into it yesterday night and I had to tell my wife "He's my boss" :)
[09:54] <mdz> kylem: it's the middle of the day where you are
[09:54] <mdz> agoliveira: it is a classic in its own time
[09:55] <kylem> mdz, i have no idea what timezone i'm in for any given day anymore
[09:55] <pitti> agoliveira: ah, you mean the mugshot? that's cute, indeed
[09:55] <dholbach> pong
[09:55] <cjwatson> here
[09:56] <agoliveira> pitti: Yeah, that one :)
[09:57] <amitk> yo!
[09:57] <seb128> hey dholbach
[09:57] <dholbach> yo amitk
[09:57] <agoliveira> Hi amitk
[09:58] <bryce> heya all
[09:58] <mdz> Keybuk: ping?
[09:58] <tkamppeter> hi all
[09:59] <amitk> hi all
[09:59] <mdz> amitk: good evening
[09:59] <mdz> doko,rtg,asac: ping
[10:00] <asac> hi
[10:00] <agoliveira> Hi bryce
[10:00] <rtg> pong
[10:00] <agoliveira> Hi Till
[10:00] <doko> pong
[10:00] <shawarma> o/
[10:00] <shawarma> _o/
[10:01] <mdz> you grew an arm
[10:01] <Mithrandir> as long as he ends up with two, all is good?
[10:01] <Keybuk> mdz: just counting
[10:01] <mdz> I'm concerned about the intermediate stages
[10:01] <ogra> whoops i'm late
[10:01] <mdz> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070705
[10:01] <Keybuk> mdz: all that I'm expecting accounted for
[10:01] <iwj> Hi everyone.
[10:02] <agoliveira> Hi iwj
[10:02] <cjwatson> another light agenda today, though any omissions are entirely down to me this week
[10:03] <mdz> first up, dholbach would like to introduce his package review proposal
[10:03] <dholbach> I wrote the proposal up here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews
[10:03] <dholbach> the problem we're trying to solve is: we need more people doing reviews
[10:04] <dholbach> more reviews means more fixes, more contributors and in the end more reviewers :-)
[10:04] <mdz> I've looked over this previously, and I think it's a good idea
[10:04] <Mithrandir> is this code reviews, package reviews or both?
[10:04] <mdz> it's important that we take the time to review contributions from new folks, to give them the encouragement to become regular contributors
[10:05] <mdz> Mithrandir: reviews of contributions in the form of packages
[10:05] <keescook> I'm a fan of "Possible conflicts and problems will be discussed in the last minutes of the weekly Distro Team meeting."
[10:05] <cjwatson> we need to grow the pool of Ubuntu developers quite significantly, and this is one good way to try to ensure quality in the result
[10:05] <shawarma> mdz: If so, why are there is there a main/restricted section? What sort of packages would go directly into main?
[10:05] <keescook> there have been some main-sponsor-tagged bugs I haven't been sure how to handle.
[10:05] <iwj> This sounds good but it would be nice to have an idea of the standard we're judging against.  I'm certainly willing to help.
[10:06] <cjwatson> shawarma: patches against existing packages too
[10:06] <cjwatson> as well as totally new ones
[10:06] <mdz> in a nutshell: someone creates a new or updated package, you review it and upload it
[10:06] <shawarma> Ah, right.
[10:06] <mdz> also called "sponsorship"
[10:06] <iwj> `Net improvement to the distro' ?  `No howlers' ?  ...
[10:06] <cjwatson> basically all the stuff that gets sent to ubuntu-{main,universe}-sponsors now but actually DOING it
[10:06] <mdz> if you have a quick look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-main-sponsors
[10:06] <mdz> there are 46 such contributions queued for main(!)
[10:06] <dholbach> we will make use of bug reports in LP to keep track of reviews, so no REVU login is needed or anything
[10:06] <cjwatson> (in a coordinated way, gets to be part of your normal work time, etc.)
[10:06] <shawarma> Looking at it already.
[10:07] <asac> i think universe sponsoring works pretty well atm ... main definitly needs more love
[10:07] <mdz> it is well worth our while to act on these, as time spent reviewing a patch or two could help someone to become a new MOTU or core dev
[10:07] <dholbach> asac: NEW packages too
[10:07] <cjwatson> I think I would say that the standard ought to be that you'd be willing to put your own name to it
[10:08] <mdz> Launchpad is growing some new features which will make this process even more efficient
[10:08] <asac> dholbach: where can i find new packages? revu?
[10:08] <iwj> So picking one at random, bug 75765 say, the job for a reviewer is to check the patch is good and then upload it, basically ?
[10:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 75765 in syslinux "syslinux should depend on mtools" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75765
[10:08] <mdz> cjwatson: agreed
[10:08] <mdz> iwj: correct
[10:08] <pitti> dholbach: in which aspects is that new team (code-reviewers) different from the -{main,universe}-sponsors ones?
[10:08] <mdz> the contributor might be a MOTU working on a package in main
[10:08] <iwj> cjwatson: That's a reasonable criterion.
[10:08] <dholbach> asac: for now we'll review bugs tagged needs-packaging which are 'fix committed'
[10:08] <mdz> or potentially someone new to Ubuntu entirely
[10:08] <cjwatson> iwj: also to get back to the reviewee with constructive criticism, and do back-and-forth
[10:08] <dholbach> asac: so either the package is attached a branch is linked to, or a link to the dsc file is given, so you can easily dget -x it
[10:08] <asac> dholbach: ah ... i see the link now
[10:08] <Mithrandir> it would be very nice if the quality of NEW packages was raised a bit.. I rejected about 2 out of 3 new packages last time I did source NEW.
[10:08] <iwj> cjwatson: Quite so.
[10:09] <mdz> PPAs will begin to be used for this process more and more
[10:09] <dholbach> Mithrandir: maybe it would help to classify the problems you're facing and add them to a wiki page, so we could work it into documentation
[10:09] <mdz> so that by the time a package is reviewed, we already know that it builds, and can examine the binary packages trivially
[10:09] <dholbach> Mithrandir: and announce 'common packaging mistakes' on the mailing list
[10:09] <Mithrandir> dholbach: yeah, I started by mailing -motu about it, first.
[10:09] <dholbach> (also cover them in the MOTU Q&A sessions)
[10:09] <dholbach> Mithrandir: yeah, I saw that - thanks a lot
[10:09] <Keybuk> dholbach: "using cdbs"
[10:09] <mdz> and if the package looks good, it will be possible to copy it straight into Ubuntu on the server side
[10:10] <iwj> If we join this team can our mail filtering distinguish `you got this mail only because it's related to a sponsors-subscribed bug' vs `you got this mail because you're a bug contact for the package' ?
[10:10] <dholbach> Keybuk: ROCK ON! GO CDBS! :)
[10:10] <cjwatson> iwj: (as an aside, it's asserted in bug 75765 that the version of syslinux now in gutsy can be built not to need mtools)
[10:10] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: no "forgetting to ship a licence", "wrong debian/copyright", etc.
[10:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 75765 in syslinux "syslinux should depend on mtools" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/75765
[10:10] <mdz> so that we have a very efficient pipeline for getting changes into the distro, even without direct upload privileges
[10:10] <kylem> what, you don't like reading interdiff? :)
[10:10] <iwj> cdbs--
[10:10] <pitti> iwj: that's possible, LP sends the reason in a header now
[10:10] <dholbach> iwj: joining the team will not cause mails being sent to you
[10:10] <Keybuk> iwj: there should be an X-Launchpad-Reason for that now
[10:10] <seb128> dholbach: having a wiki page with common mistake would probably work better than a mail
[10:10] <iwj> pitti: Yes, I saw but I don't remember whether you get two reasons.
[10:10] <cjwatson> X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale I think
[10:11] <Keybuk> indeed
[10:11] <Keybuk> X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale: Bug Contact (udev in ubuntu)
[10:11] <dholbach> you will either pick packages you're interested in, or the admins of the team will manage the load of old reviews on team members by assigning bugs
[10:11] <dholbach> seb128: both :)
[10:11] <calc> btw it would be great to get that manual partition bug fixed by tribe-3 when it shows up its a showstopper
[10:11] <cjwatson> X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale: Subscriber @ubuntu-sru via Bug 109073
[10:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 109073 in gnome-games "Game Tali can't save scores" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109073
[10:11] <cjwatson> I get that sort of thing
[10:11] <iwj> cjwatson: Do you get several if there are several ?  I'm struggling to find an example right now ...
[10:12] <cjwatson> iwj: haven't found an example or counterexample yet
[10:12] <dholbach> I will set the contact adress of ubuntu-code-reviewers to noreply@ubuntu.com, I think
[10:12] <pitti> dholbach: (repeating, it got lost) in which aspects is that new team (code-reviewers) different from the -{main,universe}-sponsors ones?
[10:12] <pitti> TBH I don't see the reason for yet another team
[10:12] <evand> calc: on it
[10:12] <dholbach> pitti: all the members of the team agree to do reviews
[10:12] <calc> evand: good job :)
[10:12] <pitti> dholbach: but that's true for all three teams, no?
[10:12] <dholbach> pitti: so seb128 and I will assign bugs that are older than two weeks to people of the team
[10:13] <calc> while everyone is here does anyone know much about wpa for offline discussion?
[10:13] <dholbach> pitti: no, you can be member of the other teams and just ignore bug mails
[10:13] <pitti> dholbach: but in that case you shouldn't be a member
[10:13] <asac> dholbach: you can do that for the new team too ... i find pittis point valid :)
[10:13] <dholbach> we have lots of teams with lots of inactive members
[10:13] <rtg> calc: I know some about wpa.
[10:13] <pitti> the very point of *-sponsors is to collect people who review, upload, and discuss already
[10:13] <pitti> dholbach: so let's rather clean up the existing ones
[10:14] <dholbach> ubuntu-code-reviewers will take care of *sponsors* bugs and needs-packaging bugs
[10:14] <asac> dholbach: why not sort them out and put more strict policy/procedures on the existing teams?
[10:14] <dholbach> pitti: do you want to throw out members?
[10:14] <pitti> dholbach: e. g. your new team needs to be split into main and universe, too
[10:14] <calc> rtg: ok
[10:14] <iwj> For bug 51468 I get only `Assignee' in the one -Rationale field despite being bug contact for the package too.
[10:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 51468 in dpkg "dpkg-source doesn't respect group sticky bit" [Low,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/51468
[10:14] <dholbach> asac: because I don't want to review each member's work
[10:14] <pitti> dholbach: no, asking everyone whether they are ok with actually doing stuff and asking them to leave the team if they don't
[10:14] <mdz> one of the key ideas of dholbach's proposal is that we will dedicate time on a regular basis (e.g., weekly) to doing reviews
[10:14] <Keybuk> iwj: I suspect it may pick the highest ranking reason?  worth asking malone people on that outside the meeting, since they can provide a definite answer
[10:14] <asac> dholbach: this sounds a bit like we will get new team every two years ?
[10:15] <cjwatson> iwj: looking at the code I believe it only ever uses the first reason
[10:15] <iwj> Keybuk: Mmm.
[10:15] <cjwatson> (lib/canonical/launchpad/mailnotification.py:NotificationRecipientSet.add()
[10:15] <mdz> Canonical developers will do this as part of their ongoing responsibilities, so that contributors get a quick turnaround
[10:15] <cjwatson> )
[10:15] <pitti> dholbach: that new team will accumulate cruft over time, too
[10:15] <dholbach> asac: no, this team is not subscribed to bugs by default, but membership points out that you are willing to get bugs assigned, etc
[10:15] <iwj> cjwatson: That means that if we want to have an email ping about incoming review stuff we need the email contact for the team to be a subscribable-to list.
[10:15] <dholbach> pitti: cruft = people?
[10:15] <Mithrandir> dholbach: a way would be to just make everybody's membership expire in a month's time, and anybody who's interested can just say they're interested and they'll keep.
[10:15] <mdz> this new team represents a different workflow
[10:16] <pitti> dholbach: I mean people who stay team members but get inactive
[10:16] <iwj> dholbach: Quote!
[10:17] <dholbach> Mithrandir: we can have a short membership, yes
[10:17] <dholbach> pitti: no problem, I just didn' understand
[10:17] <Mithrandir> dholbach: and then make it expire in 12 months or so, like normal teams.
[10:17] <pitti> auto-expiration sounds like a good idea to me to avoid this problem
[10:17] <cjwatson> cruft != people, Soylent Green = people
[10:17] <ogra> lol
[10:18] <dholbach> as mdz already said: we have a different workflow in this team - nobody will get subscribed to bugs by default, so it will have a really small impact on your inbox, members will pick bugs they're interested in and get one assigned every now and then, if we can't keep up
[10:18] <asac> and what will the old teams do on top? why can't we apply this workflow to them?
[10:18] <mdz> I'm indifferent about the issue of how the teams in Launchpad are organized
[10:19] <mdz> let's focus on the proposal itself
[10:19] <dholbach> are there other questions about the proposal (apart from ... yes
[10:19] <mdz> does anyone have feedback about the idea of *your* regular participation in these reviews?
[10:19] <asac> yes ;)
[10:19] <pitti> sounds good to me in general
[10:19] <pitti> question is whether someone actually manages it and assigns stuff, or we just randomly pick
[10:19] <cjwatson> the trick will be remembering to do it on a regular basis
[10:19] <asac> for me too
[10:19] <mdz> pitti: my suggestion was that dholbach would manage the queue
[10:19] <cjwatson> hence tacking a reviewers meeting onto the end of the distro team meeting
[10:20] <seb128> pitti: we random pick and if something is not picked it gets assigned
[10:20] <cjwatson> (just as a convenient slot because I didn't want to suggest creating YA meeting)
[10:20] <fabbione> sounds sane to me
[10:20] <mdz> to make sure that things don't wait too long, and get handed to someone quickly
[10:20] <pitti> with assignments, planning and load balancing would be easier, but someone's got to do it, of course, which costs some time
[10:20] <mdz> I think it's simpler to have a central person take care of that, and reviewers will only need to worry about emptying their queue each week
[10:21] <mdz> which should be a small number of patches
[10:21] <cjwatson> one other point will be to remind reviewees not to just go to the last person who sponsored their patch
[10:21] <mdz> that way there's no polling, no forgetting to check for new reviews
[10:21] <mdz> you can just handle them like bugs as they come in
[10:21] <keescook> Is there a way to have the "Bugs related to ..." list only show the bugs still open in Ubuntu?  (e.g. 58256 is not interesting)
[10:21] <pitti> right
[10:21] <pitti> and we could even pass around the management hat after some time
[10:21] <cjwatson> otherwise (a) you start avoiding reviews out of the fear of being stuck with the same person again and again (b) reviewees get the benefit of multiple people's opinions over time
[10:22] <Mithrandir> keescook: I believe there are bugs filed about that problem.
[10:22] <dholbach> cjwatson: good idea
[10:22] <seb128> keescook: I think that's a launchpad bug
[10:22] <keescook> Mithrandir: 'kay.
[10:22] <fabbione> cjwatson: ++
[10:23] <kylem> cjwatson++
[10:23] <mdz> are there any objections to the idea of dholbach assigning the reviews to folks as they come in?
[10:23] <cjwatson> keescook: you can at least just skip past the ones on Debian at the top
[10:23] <mdz> he can take care of ensuring that nobody is overloaded, and that requests are routed to someone who knows about the package involved, if appropriate
[10:23] <keescook> cjwatson: yeah, true.  had just noticed that.  :)
[10:24] <pitti> keescook: write a greasemonkey script for us :)
[10:24] <keescook> pitti: duh, of course.
[10:24] <pitti> (that would be heavily useful for archive bugs, too)
[10:24] <dholbach> it'd be nice if you joined the team, if you're willing to help out there, so there's a list of people to assign bugs to :)
[10:24] <cjwatson> people should also feel free to turn down reviews if they aren't last-resort-assignee and they don't know much about the package
[10:25] <pitti> dholbach: I'm still not convinced about getting one new team for it; we either use the existing ones, or split yours into two (main/universe) and declare the other two as dead
[10:25] <mdz> dholbach: we should ask for volunteers from the community, but distro team packagers are expected to do this as part of their regular work
[10:25] <cjwatson> there are plenty of classes of bugs I know I will be of no use reviewing :)
[10:25] <cjwatson> but everybody should have some they can handle
[10:25] <mdz> the volume is not large, when considered against the size of this team
[10:26] <mdz> even the current backlog is only a few reviews per developer
[10:26] <pitti> dholbach: thanks a lot for bringing this up; that's quite obviously a forgotten area
[10:26] <dholbach> mdz: ok, I'll announce the plan and ask for volunteers
[10:27] <dholbach> I'm happy to drop the team if that's what everybody thinks is a good idea...
[10:27] <mdz> dholbach: please add everyone from the distro team who is also a core developer to the team
[10:27] <mdz> dholbach: (whichever team you decide to use)
[10:27] <dholbach> I will divide the NEW packages upon the two teams too
[10:27] <dholbach> mdz: will do
[10:27] <mdz> any other questions about reviews?
[10:27] <seb128> dholbach: what do you mean, divide NEW?
[10:28] <dholbach> seb128: needs-packaging Fix Committed bugs
[10:28] <seb128> dholbach: new packages go to universe
[10:28] <dholbach> seb128: yes, but I don't want to put the whole load on people in the universe team
[10:29] <dholbach> pitti: I'd prefer to have ubuntu-main-sponsors@lists.ubuntu.com before I add random people to it
[10:29] <seb128> dholbach: right, just subscribe everybody to those ;)
[10:29] <pitti> dholbach: hm, do we need that list?
[10:29] <pitti> dholbach: we have u-devel@ and bug mail already?
[10:29] <dholbach> pitti: the advantage of the team is: you just get mails for bug reports that are assigned to you
[10:30] <dholbach> if you're in ubuntu-main-sponsors you get all mails about main sponsoring bugs
[10:30] <dholbach> and that's something I'd like to avoid
[10:30] <pitti> dholbach: not if you set an appropriate team contact address
[10:30] <pitti> that's a problem with either team
[10:30] <mdz> let's take the discussion about team structure and mailing lists to email, if we could
[10:30] <pitti> right
[10:30] <dholbach> ok
[10:31] <mdz> I agree that it's an important question to resolve, but we can do it as well offline I think
[10:31] <dholbach> yes, that's better use of our time :)
[10:31] <mdz> does anyone have questions about the sprint next week?
[10:31] <mdz> some of you will be attending for the first time
[10:31] <amitk> mdz: do we get to sleep?
[10:31] <shawarma> no
[10:31] <bryce> anything in particular we should be prepared for?
[10:31] <agoliveira> Will we be fed like at Google?... not :)
[10:31] <mdz> amitk: every night
[10:32] <Keybuk> amitk: not if you don't want to
[10:32] <ogra> did nobody forget their fridge magnet ?
[10:32] <shawarma> ogra: I had no idea!
[10:32] <pitti> ogra: OMG
[10:32] <mdz> bryce: all the things you normally don't need to worry about when working at home :-)
[10:32] <ogra> shawarma, there was a mail from jane
[10:32] <Keybuk> oh yes, everyone is supposed to bring a fridge magnet from their country/city of origin to put on the millbank fridge
[10:32] <kwwii> that makes two things i have to get before I leave
[10:32] <mdz> you need to dress yourself every day, shower occasionally, etc.
[10:32] <ogra> or was it from claire ?
[10:32] <shawarma> ogra: Before i joined, it seems.
[10:32] <pitti> ogra: thanks for the reminder
[10:32] <bryce> mdz, :-)
[10:32] <ogra> :)
[10:32] <agoliveira> Keybuk: Didn't know that!
[10:32] <mdz> bring an umbrella in case it rains
[10:33] <mdz> and a jacket; it's summer, but it sometimes gets cold and windy along the river, especially at night
[10:33] <agoliveira> I'll have to go shop for it because my wife hates them :)
[10:33] <fabbione> mdz: people from real countries can breath in the water :P
[10:33] <ogra> and fireproof underwear, you never know
[10:33] <Mithrandir> mdz: is there a big enough fridge with enough soft drinks there?
[10:33] <mdz> Mithrandir: there is what claire described as a "big fuck-off American style fridge"
[10:33] <bryce> lol
[10:33] <ogra> heh
[10:33] <Mithrandir> mdz: ah, good.
[10:33] <amitk> mdz: so how does the sprint work? Do we already have an agenda?
[10:33] <mdz> with coca-cola and diet coke in it
[10:33] <mdz> a coffee machine, a water cooler, etc.
[10:34] <kwwii> amitk: we all sit around and watch you work :-)
[10:34] <Mithrandir> kwwii: with whips.
[10:34] <calc> oh europeans normally have tiny fridges?
[10:34] <ogra> calc, yep
[10:34] <cjwatson> amitk: https://wiki.canonical.com/GutsySprintLondon has agenda items
[10:34] <Keybuk> calc: but we know how to use them!
[10:34] <mdz> amitk: yes, there's a brief agenda to remind us of points we want to cover
[10:34] <ogra> calc, we like to waste less energy :)
[10:34] <calc> Keybuk: by going to the store every day?
[10:34] <cjwatson> it will be much less formal than UDS though
[10:35] <mdz> we get to pretend that we all work in the same office for a week
[10:35] <calc> US is spread out enough that going to the store more than once a week would waste a large number of hours, so we have big(?) fridges
[10:35] <calc> 20-25 cu ft
[10:35] <agoliveira> mdz: "pretend that we all work"? :)
[10:35] <Keybuk> one advantage to Millbank is that we have break-out rooms for smaller discussions
[10:35] <mdz> we will have a few special guests from Canonical partners dropping by to talk with us as well
[10:36] <ogra> calc, if a fridge is big enough an 8 yr old child can stand in there we call it a huge fridge in europe ;)
[10:36] <calc> ogra: lol
[10:36] <calc> ogra: some fridges in the US are large enough for an adult to stand in
[10:36] <mdz> you will also have the opportunity to meet some of your colleagues in other parts of Canonical
[10:36] <ogra> up to 4yr is mid sized ;)
[10:36] <ogra> calc, i know ;)
[10:36] <mdz> even if you've been around for a while, there are a lot of new faces in the london office
[10:36] <cjwatson> I would recommend bringing an Ethernet cable if you can
[10:37] <pitti> oh, good point
[10:37] <cjwatson> the office requires WPA and some wireless cards have trouble
[10:37] <pitti> bcm43xx -> no wpa love
[10:37] <ogra> are there spare keyboards, mice an ddislays in the office ?
[10:37] <fabbione> cjwatson: are there going to be enough ports for everybody?
[10:37] <mdz> especially if you insist on using a powerpc laptop
[10:37] <calc> cjwatson: and wpa seems to have issues in gutsy too, whee :)
[10:37] <pitti> cjwatson: we cannot get an exception for that week? (open wifi)
[10:37] <mdz> ogra: no
[10:37] <ogra> :/
[10:37] <ogra> ok
[10:37] <Mithrandir> calc: maybe somebody will then fix it. :-)
[10:37] <mdz> most everyone uses laptops
[10:37] <calc> Mithrandir: i hope so, i'm stuck on fiesty still
[10:37] <ogra> yeah, makes sense
[10:37] <keescook> bring a swtich too.  :)
[10:37] <mdz> ogra: you can have as many virtual machines as you like though
[10:38] <ogra> heh
[10:38] <keescook> *switch
[10:38] <ogra> mdz, you know i like real HW ;)
[10:38] <Keybuk> general warning
[10:38] <Keybuk> DO NOT plug your laptop into a blue cable
[10:38] <Keybuk> blue cables are BAD cables
[10:38] <agoliveira> ?
[10:38] <cjwatson> mdz: when the laptop refresh benefit kicks in, I shall not be ;-)
[10:38] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: oh, RS422?
[10:38] <mdz> blue cables are PoE for the phone system
[10:38] <fabbione> Power over Ethernet?
[10:38] <Mithrandir> oh, fun.
[10:38] <ogra> fun
[10:38] <fabbione> ehhe
[10:38] <agoliveira> Cool
[10:39] <mdz> I'm excited for everyone to get together at the new office, it will be great fun
[10:39] <bryce> :-)
[10:39] <dholbach> yeah :)
[10:39] <ogra> yeah
[10:39] <ogra> we'Re a huge crowd
[10:39] <cjwatson> if you are scared of heights, don't go near the windows
[10:39] <Mithrandir> can we go out on the roof?
[10:39] <ogra> *shudder*
[10:39] <mdz> the forecast for monday and tuesday calls for rain
[10:39] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I don't believe so
[10:39] <pitti> mdz: is there a principal ban of open wifis?
[10:39] <mdz> pitti: you'll have to check with elmo about that
[10:40] <pitti> mdz: i. e. it would be bad to just hook an AP to an ethernet and use that?
[10:40] <mdz> but the office is well covered already
[10:40] <calc> ogra: http://www.subzero.com/products/detail.aspx?cid=2&productid=11 <- the fridge i like ;)
[10:40] <pitti> ok
[10:40] <bryce> Linux developers should never go near windows
[10:40] <Keybuk> pitti: we're on the 27th floor ... most of London would have line-of-sight with the AP
[10:40] <pitti> well, I'll better bring a cable then
[10:40] <fabbione> hmmmm
[10:40] <ogra> calc, a for murders etc :)
[10:40] <fabbione> i will need to find one... mine are all in use
[10:40] <ogra> *ah even
[10:40] <mdz> pitti: all the better to take advantage of the ridiculous internet bandwidth
[10:40] <agoliveira> bryce: ... or trough it ;)
[10:41] <cjwatson> pitti: I seem to remember asking once and being told that we couldn't have open wifi
[10:41] <fabbione> suggested lenght of the cable?
[10:41] <mdz> 2m
[10:41] <fabbione> thanks
[10:41] <Keybuk> power and ethernet access has been put in place by IS, and is quite generous
[10:41] <Keybuk> especially by hotel standards we've been previously used to
[10:42] <mdz> you should find it a very comfortable place to sprint
[10:42] <Keybuk> also, while here, set your local archive while here to the ordinary archive.ubuntu.com -- since any other traffic has to go *past* the real archive to get to the Internet anyway
[10:42] <dholbach> :-)
[10:42] <agoliveira> Any tips for first-timers in London?
[10:42] <fabbione> agoliveira: don't get lost?
[10:42] <kylem> will we have ethernet? i'm going to bring my macbook instead of my old ibm, and don't want to use buggy madwifi shit.
[10:42] <mdz> agoliveira: just say "sorry" a lot, and you'll be fine
[10:42] <cjwatson> kylem: yes
[10:42] <pitti> agoliveira: watch out before crossing a street, cars come from the *other* side
[10:43] <pitti> (seriously, that hit me more than once)
[10:43] <ogra> calc, i can still easily look over my fridge, but the usual german would consider that thing huge already :)
[10:43] <kylem> cjwatson, winning.
[10:43] <keescook> kylem: bring a switch or two.  :)
[10:43] <agoliveira> pitti: I've being on Australia :)
[10:43] <cjwatson> bring a cable, though there are spares
[10:43] <dholbach> record shops! :-D
[10:43] <kylem> dholbach, ohh winning
[10:43] <Keybuk> pitti: I hope not *hit*
[10:43] <mdz> don't forget your power adapter if you need one
[10:43] <evand> Is anyone planning on hitting LRL once they get settled in at the hotel?
[10:43] <kylem> evand, i'm heading up there on saturday morning.
[10:43] <pitti> Keybuk: no, but close enough for my taste :)
[10:43] <ogra> LRL ?
[10:43] <kylem> evand, when do you arrive?
[10:43] <Keybuk> LRL is about 2h travel from the hotel ;)
[10:43] <agoliveira> mdz: I bought one of those you showed me. I should be fine
[10:43] <evand> kylem: 10a
[10:43] <mdz> a number of Canonical folks will be at LUGRadio Live
[10:43] <kylem> evand, on saturday?
[10:44] <evand> yes
[10:44] <ogra> ah lug radio
[10:44] <calc> ogra: i'm seriously considering buying a 20 cu ft freezer to go along with the 20-25 cu ft fridge/freezer i already have, when i move next month, heh
[10:44] <kylem> evand, at heathrow?
[10:44] <Keybuk> evand: oh, then by all means, LRL is wonderful fun!
[10:44] <evand> gatwick
[10:44] <kylem> evand, ah, darn, do you have a GSM phone?
[10:44] <evand> negative, cdma
[10:44] <kylem> darn.
[10:44] <Keybuk> people heading to LRL should take my mobile number, and I'll provide necessary directions, details and help
[10:44] <mdz> another pro tip: check that your phone will be able to roam in the UK before leaving
[10:44] <kylem> i arrive at LHR at 7:30, hoping to get a 1pm train from Euston to WVH
[10:44] <Keybuk> (cdma does *not* work in the UK)
[10:45] <evand> Hrmm, perhaps I can find a working SIP client for windows mobile 6.
[10:45] <mdz> if not, make sure you don't get lost on the way to the hotel
[10:45] <mjg59> If you have an unlocked GSM phone, pay as you go SIMs are cheap and easily available
[10:45] <mdz> mjg59: and anonymous!
[10:45] <kylem> mjg59, is there a good place to buy an unlocked phone?
[10:45] <kylem> mjg59, i could do with an upgrade. heh
[10:46] <Mithrandir> mdz: everything related to building security and our access and such has been set up already, and we just show up?
[10:46] <calc> kylem: you can unlock your phone fairly easily online
[10:46] <mdz> random phone kiosks and (oddly enough) dry cleaners will unlock your phone for a few pounds
[10:46] <mjg59> kylem: Erm. I've usually used ebay.
[10:46] <kylem> calc, yeah, but newer phones in britain.
[10:46] <mdz> Mithrandir: assuming claire knows you're coming, you should be set
[10:46] <agoliveira> mjg59: GOod call
[10:46] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: front desk will provide you with visitor passes
[10:46] <ogra> kylem, my discunter at the corner seels unlocked no names for 111 atm
[10:46] <amitk> The hotel walking distance from the office, right?
[10:46] <iwj> So err we seem to be running into the sands here.  I hate to ask and interrupt all the banter but is still the meeting ?
[10:46] <Mithrandir> mdz: what time do we start?  9am at millbank or when?
[10:46] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: ok
[10:46] <mdz> amitk: yes
[10:46] <fabbione> we will need to renew the visitor pass every day?
[10:46] <mdz> iwj: this is the response to my asking whether anyone had questions about the sprint
[10:46] <fabbione> or is it going to be a weekly one?
[10:46] <shawarma> fabbione: You don't bring it home.
[10:46] <iwj> mdz: Yes.
[10:46] <shawarma> fabbione: You get one each morning.
[10:47] <fabbione> shawarma: ok thanks
[10:47] <iwj> fabbione: Be sure to leave your bombs at the big gothic building just up the street with all the `Serious Place Under The We Will Lock You Up Act' notices.
[10:47] <mdz> feel free to call my mobile if you have any trouble getting where you need to be
[10:48] <iwj> Mithrandir: I assume so.
[10:48] <mdz> is there any other business for the meeting?
[10:48] <fabbione> iwj: ROFL
[10:48] <Mithrandir> and, how's lunch arranged there?
[10:48] <mdz> Mithrandir: lunch will be catered in
[10:48] <pitti> just reminding everyone to look after their tribe-3 bugs now and then; we have scaringly many
[10:48] <Mithrandir> sounds great.
[10:48] <mdz> please be at millbank by 0930 monday morning
[10:49] <iwj> 0930!  A lie-in :-).
[10:49] <Mithrandir> when do we end for the day?
[10:49] <kylem> mdz, do we have any organized dinners on sunday or friday?
[10:49] <fabbione> mdz: 9:30 ?
[10:49] <fabbione> oh oh
[10:49] <iwj> fabbione: Don't ask, he might change his mind.
[10:49] <mdz> kylem: I'm not sure, since I'm not traveling. :-)  should be in the email from claire
[10:49] <fabbione> iwj: i am good with 9.. i can't sleep past 5/6 anyway
[10:49] <Mithrandir> fabbione: it's a walk from the hotel, so makes sense.
[10:49] <pitti> fabbione: that's lunchtime for you already, right? :)
[10:49] <kylem> ok.
[10:49] <fabbione> pitti: exactly :)
[10:50] <fabbione> Mithrandir: fair enough...
[10:50] <fabbione> it's all good
[10:50] <iwj> fabbione: Imagine the sprint is in Boston.
[10:50] <fabbione> iwj: 5/6 UTC.. my body rejects TZs
[10:50] <mdz> Mithrandir: depends on how much there is to do that day; going directly to dinner is common
[10:50] <ogra> kylem, if we dont we'll organize one ourselves ;)
[10:50] <Mithrandir> ok.
[10:51] <keescook> agoliveira: doesn't open until the 27th
[10:51] <kylem> ogra, need to know when to be back in london for... if it's just monday morning, it's easier. :)
[10:51] <fabbione> agoliveira: it's not such a bad idea
[10:51] <Keybuk> Die Hard and Harry Potter are the openings here
[10:51] <fabbione> keescook: you kidding? it's already on the screens here
[10:51] <ogra> ah
[10:51] <agoliveira> Here too I guess
[10:51] <keescook> fabbione: that's correct.  I was bummed
[10:51] <mdz> kylem: even if there is something organized sunday night, it's not mandatory
[10:51] <kylem> mdz, ok, that's more or less what i wanted to know.
[10:51] <kylem> cheers.
[10:51] <mdz> perhaps we can organize a trip to the cinema one evening
[10:52] <iwj> I'll be getting into KX at 23something so I'll probably miss that :-).
[10:52] <bryce> that'd be cool
[10:52] <ogra> yeah
[10:52] <seb128> dholbach: new harry potter ;)
[10:52] <dholbach> hehe :-)
[10:52] <iwj> *shudder8
[10:52] <agoliveira> No way! :)
[10:52] <mdz> in the spirit of individual initiative, it's more likely to happen if someone takes the lead and organizes it
[10:52] <doko> seb128: ask amy to buy one in chinese ;-)
[10:53] <mdz> we're almost at time.  is there anything else to cover for the meeting before we wrap up?
[10:53] <ogra> doko++
[10:53] <bryce> mdz, nope
[10:53] <seb128> doko: I think I like english better than chinese ;)
[10:53] <ogra> we can all talk next week in person :)
[10:53] <mdz> ok
[10:53] <mdz> travel safely, everyone
[10:53] <fabbione> cya sunday
[10:53] <mdz> and good night
[10:53] <fabbione> night
[10:53] <dholbach> see you on sunday
[10:53] <pitti> cu all!
[10:53] <amitk> good night
[10:53] <asac> night
[10:53] <ogra> ciao
[10:53] <iwj> TTFN all.
[10:53] <kwwii> see you soon
[10:54] <doko> see you Sunday
[10:54] <agoliveira> I intend to, if the airport situation here alows me.
[10:54] <seb128> see you
[10:54] <agoliveira> Bye all
[10:54] <calc> see you all sunday :)
[10:54] <keescook> cya
[10:54] <cjwatson> good luck with travel, everyone
[10:54] <cjwatson> be nice to the nice men with guns at the airports
[10:54] <pitti> cjwatson: shudder
[10:54] <fabbione> cjwatson: do we need to kiss them with lots of love? :P
[10:55] <pitti> bad storys here in the newspapers
[10:58] <calc> cjwatson: eh i thought no one in UK had guns?
[10:58] <bryce> brian and I are flying Northwest Airlines, which apparently has been delivering its passengers to their destinations only about 85% the time, so I'm 85% sure I'll see ya all Monday!
[10:58] <calc> bryce: lol
[10:59] <cjwatson> calc: not ordinary civilians
[11:00] <calc> cjwatson: ah