[12:25] <alex-weej> i don't think the rt2x00 ralink drivers work
[12:25] <alex-weej> at least the rt73usb driver is causing pain for people, it just doesn't associate
[12:26] <alex-weej> the legacy rt73 driver the same guys provide works, but it's not bundled with ubuntu
[12:26] <alex-weej> what's the solution here
[12:26] <alex-weej> ?
[12:27] <alex-weej> in fact, they claim that the rt2x00 driver is still beta
[12:29] <alex-weej> every "legacy" driver they provide EXCEPT rt73 is bundled
[12:30] <ScottK> alex-weej: Most of the core devs work on European time, so this isn't a great time.  I'd suggest discuss it in #ubuntu+1.
[12:30] <alex-weej> ScottK: should i use ubuntu-devel-discuss?
[12:30] <pygi> doko, poke?
[12:31] <ScottK> alex-weej: That would be another good option.  That or file a bug.  #ubuntu-kernel might be another place (but probably not right now).  All in all, mailing list doesn't sound bad.
[12:32] <alex-weej> ScottK: i'll attack it tomorrow
[12:38] <mjg59> ogra: Why does education-laptop recommend laptop-mode-tools?
[01:06] <AlinuxOS> doko, hello.
[01:30] <bdmurray> Kmos: how is 107716 fix released?
[02:27] <robby> hi all
[02:32] <wolfeon> I really need to test out python-fam like a good little user.
[04:55] <ScottK> wolfeon: Yes.  You do.
[04:59] <wolfeon> ScottK: I know =]  I'll test it this afternoon while I develop.
[07:06] <unfo> hi all, I wish Ubuntu had a graphical bootloader like GAG with mouse support.  Should I file a bug?
[07:06] <Hobbsee> create a spec for it, more like
[07:07] <Hobbsee> however, i thought they were working towards grub 2
[07:07] <LaserJock> unfo: that's not really a bug, that's a feature request
[07:07] <unfo> Hobbsee, is grub 2 graphical?  That'd be ideal: a powerful command line (lets you do commands like find /vmlinuz) and graphics too.
[07:08] <Hobbsee> look up the page.  i beleive so, last i checked
[07:08] <unfo> You don't really need graphics, just a text mode mouse would be helpful.
[07:11] <evand> iirc, no Grub 2 for the time being.
[07:11] <evand> why would you need a mouse in a boot loader?
[07:11] <Hobbsee> evand!
[07:12] <evand> Hobbsee!
[07:12] <Hobbsee> evand: did you get anywhere with that bug?
[07:12] <fabbione> morning guys
[07:12] <evand> morning fabbione 
[07:12] <Hobbsee> morning fabbione!
[07:12] <fabbione> does anybody know if the old Feisty Herd test results are stored somewhere?
[07:13] <evand> Hobbsee: sort of.  It's definitely gksu interaction, but oddly enough it still happens with the feisty version of gksu, which confuses me to no end.
[07:13] <fabbione> it looks like i can't dig all of them out of the wiki
[07:13] <fabbione> and then we moved to the iso tracker
[07:13] <Hobbsee> evand: that's...weird.
[07:13] <unfo> evand, i don't need it but, for example, IIRC Macintosh dual-boot has it and it makes people feel it's more user-friendly.
[07:13] <tepsipakki> evand: is grub2 still too immature?
[07:13] <fabbione> (that requires admins for historical
[07:13] <ajmitch> fabbione: what page names on the wiki?
[07:13] <evand> tepsipakki: that was my understanding.  I had to miss the grub2 spec session for something, so there's probably a better source of information on this one.
[07:13] <fabbione> ajmitch: it was Testing*
[07:15] <ajmitch> right, I'd need to reconstruct a page from diffs
[07:16] <fabbione> ajmitch: do you have them?
[07:16] <ajmitch> looks like I do
[07:16] <fabbione> ajmitch: could you just tar up those messages and send them to me+
[07:16] <fabbione> it's easier for me to grep in there than for you to rebuild pages
[07:17] <ajmitch> sure
[07:17] <fabbione> thanks
[07:17] <ajmitch> just changes from this year?
[07:17] <fabbione> for all of feisty if you have them
[07:20] <ajmitch> http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/feisty-testing.mbox.bz2
[07:21] <ajmitch> mbox file with what is hopefully enough
[07:22] <fabbione> thanks
[08:43] <Hobbsee> for i in 'annoying people'; do hammer.splat($i); done
[08:45] <pygi> Hobbsee, o no, you won't!
[08:47] <Hobbsee> morning pitti!
[08:47] <StevenK> Hi pitti!
[08:49] <pygi> morning pitti, dholbach 
[08:49] <Hobbsee> morning dholbach!
[08:49] <Hobbsee> fortunately, dholbach isnt in $i either
[08:49] <dholbach> good morning
[08:49] <dholbach> hey pygi, hey pi
[08:49] <dholbach> tti
[08:50] <dholbach> hey Hobbsee :)
[08:50] <pitti> Good morning
[08:50] <pitti> Hobbsee: $I?
[08:50] <Hobbsee> [16:43]  <Hobbsee> for i in 'annoying people'; do hammer.splat($i); done
[08:50] <pitti> hey dholbach 
[08:50] <pitti> oh, *phew* :)
[08:50] <Hobbsee> i must be turning slowly geekier, when i'm expressing frustration via bash loops...
[08:51] <pitti> Hobbsee: you just need to fix the syntax of the set now :)
[08:52] <StevenK> pitti: Can you give-back asterisk and boinc on ia64?
[08:52] <Hobbsee> pitti: yeah, well.  what is it?  :P
[08:52] <StevenK> for i in $annoying_people ?
[08:52] <Hobbsee> hammer.splat(i) is a c++ ism, i assume
[08:52] <Hobbsee> or at least, i've used it in c++ before
[08:53] <StevenK> Yup.
[08:53] <Hobbsee> morning Mithrandir!
[08:53] <pitti> hi Mithrandir 
[08:53] <StevenK> hammer --splat $i
[08:53] <Mithrandir> yh!
[08:53] <Mithrandir> no splatting.
[08:53] <Mithrandir> at least not before breakfast.
[08:54] <pygi> no splatting kid
[08:54] <pitti> StevenK: done
[08:54] <pygi> ^_^
[08:54] <Hobbsee> pygi: splatting is allowed.  and it's my hammer!
[08:54] <Hobbsee> StevenK: oh, yeah, right.
[08:54] <pygi> Hobbsee, everything will be all right ... now calm ...
[08:54] <StevenK> pitti: Thanks. Can you convince you to look at the nexuiz sync, too?
[08:55] <StevenK> Can I, even
[08:55] <pitti> StevenK: I just logged into drescher to do syncs :)
[08:55] <StevenK> pitti: :-)
[08:55] <Mithrandir> the list didn't look too bad as of last night
[08:56] <pitti> Mithrandir: ah, did you that big sync wave that hit -changes@ last night? :)
[08:56] <pitti> no, just 11 ATM
[08:57] <Mithrandir> pitti: did I what?
[08:57] <Mithrandir> I didn't do the syncs, no
[08:57] <dholbach> pitti: I think for now I'll request the ubuntu-main-sponsors@ list and will just assign bugs to people without using any special team
[08:58] <pitti> dholbach: I think we should also set auto-expiry on ubuntu-{main,universe}-sponsors and mail the members about the new approach and your wiki page; WDYT?
[08:58] <dholbach> pitti: which interval do you think about?
[08:58] <pitti> Mithrandir: hm, weird; neither did I, and I wasn't even aware of so many sync bugs
[08:59] <dholbach> 3 months?
[08:59] <Mithrandir> pitti: maybe Colin or Seb did them
[08:59] <pitti> Mithrandir: it almost looked like a sync-source -a with forgotten NOMAILS
[08:59] <pitti> dholbach: 3 months sounds like a good compromise between annoying resubscription and cleansing to me
[08:59] <dholbach> ok good
[09:00] <dholbach> Hobbsee: can you do that for ubuntu-universe-sponsors too?
[09:00] <Hobbsee> dholbach: ah yes, i was going to discuss that stuff with you
[09:01] <dholbach> Hobbsee: we had a discussion about the team structure yesterday and we're likely to drop ubuntu-code-reviewers
[09:01] <Hobbsee> yeah, is aw the meeting
[09:01] <Hobbsee> makes me wish i was coming to teh distro sprint :P
[09:01] <dholbach> I'll file an RT ticket to get ubuntu-main-sponsors@lists.u.c so people don't get bug reports if they don't want to
[09:02] <dholbach> we'll soon have more people doing reviews and reviews that lie around for weeks will get assigned to team members, trying to balance the load
[09:02] <dholbach> people who don't want to do reviews any more can simply deactivate their membership
[09:03] <Hobbsee> the problem with i have with this, is that it works fro canonical employees, but it doesnt work for volunteers so well.
[09:03] <fabbione> dholbach: i assume that when we sponsor uploads we keep the name of the person that did the change, right?
[09:03] <dholbach> but I expect more distro team people to help out there
[09:03] <dholbach> fabbione: yes, using -k<keyid> would be nice
[09:03] <fabbione> dholbach: and perhaps add a: Sponsored by: in debian/changelog?
[09:03] <dholbach> fabbione: shall I add a note about that to UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews?
[09:03] <Hobbsee> u-u-s already has a ML, incidently
[09:03] <dholbach> fabbione: you can do that if you like
[09:03] <dholbach> Hobbsee: yeah and that's great
[09:03] <dholbach> Hobbsee: we just need it for main
[09:03] <Hobbsee> cant help you there :)
[09:03] <fabbione> dholbach: i did that, but then realized that we have no way to make sure (quickly) who uploaded what when mom time comes
[09:04] <Hobbsee> i'm not the head of it, and i dont have special links to RT - it took so long to get ours that i asked siretart to get us one on tiber before.
[09:04] <dholbach> fabbione: I should think that MoM will care about the name in debian/changelog - no?
[09:04] <fabbione> dholbach: so at the next merge session we will have perhaps a man page fix for a package and the name of somebody that's not yet able to merge or not interested at all in doing that
[09:04] <dholbach> Hobbsee: don't worry - we can do without it too
[09:04] <Hobbsee> mom doesnt care about the sponsoring name, no
[09:05] <fabbione> dholbach: right, that's exactly why I am suggesting to add a sponsored by and perhaps teach MOM to look at it in the last changelog entry
[09:05] <fabbione> dholbach: or another XCSB- entry but that would be overkilling when merging debian/control
[09:05] <Hobbsee> dholbach: the reason those bugs sit, i suspect, si because people dont know a lot about those main packages, and dont want ot break something that's supported, etc
[09:05] <dholbach> fabbione: I have confidence that a lot of people we sponsor will be part of ubuntu-dev at that time around :-)
[09:05] <persia> fabbione: That means the sponsor has to change the changelog, which should generate something new with dch.  How about only in .changes?
[09:05] <Hobbsee> so i'm not sure that randomly assigning things is the best way to go - because people will end up just uploading what they dont understand
[09:06] <dholbach> Hobbsee: that's why some distro team people will take up the slack :)
[09:06] <dholbach> Hobbsee: it will be no problem to swap reviews
[09:06] <Hobbsee> well, true - but i'm not sure that you can relate hwa tyou want to do for the distro team, and use the same methods for the community
[09:06] <dholbach> Hobbsee: it's a measure to make sure that stuff gets done
[09:06] <fabbione> dholbach: i see what you mean.. let's hope for the best :)
[09:06] <dholbach> Hobbsee: I'm happy to leave the volunteers out of that process
[09:06] <dholbach> fabbione: yeah :)
[09:06] <Hobbsee> ie, me going in and saying "you must do these reviews by this date" will invariably get the response of "too bad, i'm a volunteer"  "i'll do what i can"  "what right to do you have to tell me what to do" etc
[09:07] <dholbach> fabbione: I'll add the note about -k though
[09:07] <Hobbsee> and some that will do it
[09:07] <Hobbsee> attempting to force them usually isnt the best way to go
[09:07] <dholbach> Hobbsee: as I said...
[09:07] <pitti> fabbione: uploader> that's the .dsc signer
[09:07] <dholbach> Hobbsee: I'm happy to leave them out
[09:07] <Hobbsee> and from what i'm getting so far - that seems to be what you're saying?
[09:07] <fabbione> dholbach: yeah i used it automatically because it's not the first sponsor, might be a good reminder for others
[09:07] <dholbach> fabbione: alrighty
[09:07] <fabbione> pitti: yes, that requires mom to have knowledge of gpg and other few things
[09:07] <Hobbsee> dholbach: right, then on that basis, what do you want me to do?
[09:07] <Hobbsee> dholbach: and wha'ts the scope of this?  just main, or universe sponsors as well?
[09:07] <dholbach> Hobbsee: when I announce it, I'll ask for comments and people can ping me, if they would like to get a review assigned or not
[09:08] <pitti> fabbione: at least this seems much easier to implement than asking every sponsor to modify the package IMHO
[09:08] <dholbach> Hobbsee: I merely wanted you to set the expiry time of the universe team to 90 days
[09:08] <dholbach> Hobbsee: so we can make sure that people stay active or leave the team
[09:08] <Hobbsee> dholbach: ah right
[09:08] <dholbach> :-)
[09:08] <fabbione> pitti: sure. i don't really care about how but that there is actually a reference
[09:08] <dholbach> the team will take care of ubuntu-{universe,main}-sponsors + fix committed needs-packaging bugs
[09:09] <Hobbsee> right, so this is REVU stuff too.
[09:09] <pitti> fabbione: I agree, that would be nice
[09:09] <fabbione> dholbach, pitti: should we make this a point for next week sprint?
[09:09] <dholbach> Hobbsee: yeah, but we'll keep everything in bug reports - we have too many people who just don't want to use REVU or don't have an account
[09:09] <Hobbsee> dholbach: true that
[09:09] <fabbione> i have no mom access.. so no idea how easy it is to implement
[09:09] <dholbach> fabbione: sounds good
[09:09] <pitti> fabbione: sure, let's
[09:10] <fabbione> done
[09:11] <fabbione> stgraber: ping?
[09:11] <Hobbsee> dholbach: seems weird that the distro team would now have ot be involved in sponsoring, etc.
[09:11] <Hobbsee> dholbach: is this now what happens, if the community fails?
[09:12] <persia> Is there a posted spec for the changes?  I missed the beginning of the conversation, and am quite interested.
[09:12] <dholbach> Hobbsee: I expect us to have many more contributors soon and it's good if the distro team helps out with reviews
[09:12] <fabbione> Hobbsee: no, it's a way to encourage community to provide more patches and fixes.
[09:12] <Hobbsee> dholbach: indeed.
[09:12] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews
[09:12] <dholbach> persia: ^
[09:12] <Hobbsee> persia: was in this morning's meeting, too
[09:12] <dholbach> persia: we're just kicking it off and I'll announce it once all the bits have come together
[09:14] <persia> Right.  I don't think we need more team (at least for universe), but just more process.  For universe, we've gotten the queue down to around 12 hours for over 90% of the bugs, with many active contributors.
[09:14] <Hobbsee> persia: it's the main that seems to be the problem
[09:14] <Hobbsee> and REVU stuff
[09:16] <persia> Ah.  For main, assignment might work.  I'd not like to see any official action towards U-U-S, as it's currently working fairly well (although we need more work for REVU).
[09:16] <Hobbsee> although, that will be useful for SRU procedures, which a fair few people, including myself, are avoiding
[09:16] <persia> Hobbsee: True that, but I think an SRU team would be more useful than a sponsors team to handle that.
[09:17] <pitti> fabbione: bug #123809 updated
[09:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 123809 in system-config-cluster "system-config-cluster.py crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/123809
[09:17] <fabbione> pitti: cheers
[09:18] <fabbione> pitti: right.. do you know how can I fix the .desktop file or where to look for it?
[09:18] <Hobbsee> persia: which the distro team can be a part of, of course
[09:18] <persia> Hobbsee: Absolutely.
[09:19] <pitti> fabbione: look at /usr/share/applications/users.desktop for an example
[09:19] <fabbione> pitti: cool thanks
[09:19] <pitti> fabbione: in particular, "Exec=gksu foo"
[09:19] <pitti> fabbione: and "X-KDE-SubstituteUID=true"
[09:19] <fabbione> roger that Sir!
[09:19] <fabbione> :)
[09:19] <pitti> fabbione: (yes, don't complain about KDE, hysterical raisins :) )
[09:20] <fabbione> pitti: this is a gtk app... but well whaever :)
[09:21] <pitti> fabbione: KDE defined the field first, so we had the choice of either introducing a second one and change KDE, or change it upstream everywhere, or just use it as it was; the latter was easiest :)
[09:21] <StevenK> pitti: Right, asterisk and boinc sucessfully built on ia64, nexuiz will sort itself out with a few publisher runs, and Hobbsee will fix apt when she uploads it. Which leaves one package left for curl ... openoffice.org
[09:22] <pitti> StevenK: I talked to calc yesterday, he'll see to doing a new upload (and fix some other things, too)
[09:22] <fabbione> pitti: ehehhe
[09:23] <persia> StevenK: nexuiz is the sync, or is there an ubuntu2?
[09:23] <pitti> persia: just synced
[09:23] <StevenK> persia: The former.
[09:24] <persia> pitti: Ah.  mail lag delay :)  Thanks.
[09:24] <Hobbsee> dholbach: i'm slightly hesitant to set the 90 days without there being an annoucement out about it, though
[09:24] <Hobbsee> depending on whether it'll be 90 days from when tehy applied, or 90 days from when i set it
[09:24] <pitti> Hobbsee: <pitti> dholbach: I think we should also set auto-expiry on ubuntu-{main,universe}-sponsors and mail the members about the new approach and your wiki page; WDYT?
[09:25] <StevenK> pitti: Well, this means that we can kill libcurl4{,-openssl} tonight, and libcurl4-gnutls a bit later, and more importantly both of us can stop caring about the damn thing. :-)
[09:26] <pitti> heh, cruel, but effective: file a bug against that team, so all members will get mail, and announce it there
[09:26] <Hobbsee> pitti: yeah...i'm still thinking on that one.
[09:26] <Hobbsee> there's a ML
[09:26] <pitti> StevenK: yay :) then we can turn our attention towards the other outstanding transitions :)
[09:26] <Hobbsee> people  died when all the bugs were getting sent to them
[09:26] <StevenK> pitti: Yup.
[09:26] <fabbione> there.. upload fixed
[09:26] <StevenK> pitti: FLAC is a *pain*.
[09:26] <fabbione> meh
[09:26] <fabbione> fix uploaded
[09:26] <pitti> StevenK: indeed; Debian must have done it as well, though, I figure?
[09:27] <StevenK> I'm not certain.
[09:28] <StevenK> I was pondering filing a bug asking for the removal of 21 apache 1 modules.
[09:28] <dholbach> pitti: yes, we should do that
[09:28] <pitti> StevenK: please don't open 21 tasks for it, though
[09:28] <StevenK> pitti: Wasn't planning on. :-)
[09:28] <pitti> StevenK: although that would be technically correct, it's a pain for you to open and a pain for me to close :)
[09:28] <pitti> StevenK: well, the last one of that type had :)
[09:28] <StevenK> pitti: It's not a pain to open ... It's a for loop and gpg-agent. :-D
[09:28] <Hobbsee> persia: where's your docs about u-u-s, again?
[09:29] <Hobbsee> oh, found it
[09:29] <StevenK> pitti: So, no trouble, although I suspect I'd end up in a little. :-)
[09:29] <persia> Hobbsee: https://MOTU/Contributing and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue (two different viewpoints)
[09:30] <Hobbsee> dholbach: done as requested
[09:34] <dholbach> Hobbsee: thanks a lot
[09:36] <Hobbsee> dholbach: no problem
[09:36] <Hobbsee> i thought this thing was supposed to build...
[09:37] <pitti> Hobbsee: it doesn't?
[09:37] <Hobbsee> pitti: not the version in bzr, with my changes.
[09:37] <fabbione> HMMMMMM
[09:37] <Hobbsee> http://rafb.net/p/4Nbkqp95.html
[09:38] <pitti> Hobbsee: you mean the no-change rebuild you uploaded for StevenK?
[09:38] <Hobbsee> pitti: he uploaded that.  i added the automake into this lot, which means it only fails to build later.
[09:38] <Hobbsee> which is what his failed with
[09:39] <pitti> right, I just saw the build log
[09:39] <Hobbsee> right, yes.  that's my local build here, with the bzr + stevenk's rebuild changelog entry + my changes
[09:39] <pitti> ah, ISTR that Steve mentioned something like 'after Hobbsee uploaded apt...'
[09:39] <Hobbsee> and my changes shouldnt be having anything to deal with that
[09:39] <StevenK> pitti: It should be uploads, sorry
[09:40] <Hobbsee> yeah.  i think that was "after Hobbsee uploads apt" - ie, future tense
[09:40] <Hobbsee> or should have been
[09:40] <pitti> StevenK: aah
[09:40] <Hobbsee> seeing as i wasnt about to upload yet another version taht didnt build.
[09:40] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: regarding unfo's question about a graphical grub, you could have also answered the following: dapper (and I think edgy) had a patch for a graphical grub, though without mouse support and you had to enable it manually; also, you have to put grub on hold since that patch got dropped later. ;)
[09:40] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: ahhh
[09:41] <Hobbsee> awww
[09:41] <Hobbsee> StevenK: just remember what Mithrandir said yesterday
[09:41] <Hobbsee> or the day before.  whichever it was
[09:41] <StevenK> Heh
[09:41] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: as a matter of fact, I still *have* a graphical grub on 2 of my boxes
[09:41] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: the reason it got dropped was that it didn't work with laptop widescreens iirc
[09:41] <Hobbsee> ahh
[09:41] <Hobbsee> works OK here, iirc.  but whatever
[09:42] <Chipzz> ;)
[09:42] <persia> Hobbsee: It requires different special settings for each type of laptop.
[09:42] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[09:42] <persia> (rather, each general class of laptop)
[09:43] <Mithrandir> persia: or rather, it just plain didn't work on some graphics cards, and well, not giving people a menu they can see is bad.
[09:43] <persia> Mithrandir: Really?  That's even worse.
[09:44] <Hobbsee> wow, lots of new pot files.
[09:44] <Chipzz> the version of grub I have installed on this laptop (with graphical splash) is 0.97-11ubuntu14, which is from edgy
[09:45] <Chipzz> Mithrandir: worse, it failed to boot at all with laptops that didn't support it iirc
[09:45] <Chipzz> which is why it got dropped in the first place
[09:45] <Mithrandir> I think we can agree it had a multitude of failure modes, none of which were pretty
[09:52] <Chipzz> hrrrrm, that patch has been in debian grub since about warty :P
[09:53] <Mithrandir> it's in the package, it's just not enabled by default?
[09:54] <Hobbsee> pitti: shoved my version to bzr, if you were interested in having a look, at some point
[09:59] <RAOF> I sent bug #123664 upstream, and its now got a patch committed which will be in g-p-m 2.19.6.  Should I attach a debdiff with upstream's patch to that bug, or wait for the new g-p-m?
[09:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 123664 in gnome-power-manager "Should not count time suspended in battery profile" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/123664
[10:43] <stgraber> fabbione: pong
[10:44] <fabbione> stgraber: hey
[10:45] <fabbione> stgraber: do you have 2 seconds?
[10:45] <stgraber> sure
[10:49] <seb128> pitti: is the network-manager maintained in bzr?
[10:49] <fabbione> offtopic question: does anybody know of a good man page editor?
[10:49] <fabbione> stgraber: see /msg please
[10:49] <pitti> seb128: yes
[10:49] <seb128> bah
[10:49] <pitti> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/network-manager/ubuntu.0.6.x
[10:49] <seb128> pitti: danke
[10:51] <dholbach> fabbione: I always wrote them in docbook and converted them in the build target - sorry that's the best I can offer
[10:51] <pitti> POD is nice, too
[10:52] <pitti> but usually I just write them manually
[10:52] <cjwatson> fabbione: I remember looking at gmanedit once and it didn't seem to be entirely hopeless
[10:52] <cjwatson> but being groff maintainer I obviously write them by hand, so I'm not the best judge
[10:52] <fabbione> thanks guys
[10:53] <jml> editing by hand isn't too hard
[10:53] <cjwatson> I generally recommend people use either mdoc or pod; I find docbook a bit too verbose, but each to their own
[10:53] <Mithrandir> groff isn't horrible to write by hand either
[10:54] <cjwatson> and mdoc is better at dispelling the myth that *roff is a purely physical markup language than the traditional man format is
[10:55] <realist> docbook ftw :-)
[10:56] <StevenK> Yes, but docbook is *dreadful* to write by hand.
[10:59] <pitti> seb128: just to confirm, you should be able to see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/124352; right?
 Error: This bug is private
[11:00] <pitti> yeah, yeah
[11:00] <seb128> pitti: yes, work fine
[11:00] <pitti> seb128: thanks
[11:01] <seb128> np
[11:01] <Hobbsee> pitti: erm, should i be able to see that?
[11:01] <pitti> Hobbsee: yes
[11:01] <Hobbsee> right
[11:01] <pitti> Hobbsee: all core devs
[11:01] <Hobbsee> just checking if it was a canonical only thing or something
[11:02] <Hobbsee> !ping
[11:02] <ubotu> pong
[11:02] <Hobbsee> !ping
[11:02] <Hobbsee> !ping
[11:03] <seb128> hey Hobbsee
[11:03] <pygi> Hobbsee, don't abuse bot
[11:03] <Hobbsee> hi seb128 
[11:03] <Hobbsee> pygi: attempting to see if i'm still connected to the netwrork
[11:03] <pygi> you are
[11:03] <pygi> :)
[11:03] <Hobbsee> good
[11:04] <Mithrandir> asac: middlemouse.contentLoadURL got flipped from true to false for me here; any idea why?
[11:04] <Hobbsee> apparently fn != alt
[11:04] <Hobbsee> so fn+f2 will not bring up the run dialog, it will just toggle the kill switch on my wireless.
[11:04] <asac> Mithrandir: yes ... every tweak got dropped ....
[11:04] <asac> Mithrandir: intentionally ... install ubufox
[11:04] <Mithrandir> asac: uh, you dropped all my personal settings?
[11:04] <asac> he?
[11:04] <persia> asac: installing ubufox doesn't fix everything.
[11:05] <asac> Mithrandir: no ... personal settings should be still there
[11:05] <Mithrandir> asac: well, they're not.
[11:05] <cjwatson> asac: shouldn't our firefox recommend ubufox?
[11:05] <asac> it does
[11:05] <cjwatson> oh, it does
[11:05] <asac> and it will go to ubuntu-desktop
[11:05] <pitti> won't be installed by default, though
[11:05] <cjwatson> duh, sorry, apt-cache's double output when you aren't up to date confuses me
[11:05] <pitti> ah
[11:05] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: apt only does recommends by default for metapackages though, it seem
[11:06] <Hobbsee> s
[11:06] <cjwatson> can we get that into the seeds now?
[11:06] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: yes
[11:06] <Mithrandir> asac: it's just middlemouse.contentLoadURL which got dropped for me
[11:06] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: apt-get only does that, aptitude does for all packages
[11:06] <Mithrandir> iirc
[11:06] <cjwatson> should be written as * (ubufox) since firefox is also a recommends
[11:06] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: true.  but i dislike aptitude
[11:06] <asac> have you installed ubufox? ... isn't middlemouse.contentLoadURL a tweak we previously carried?
[11:06] <Mithrandir> asac: oh, and I have ubufox installed.
[11:06] <asac> hmm
[11:06] <Mithrandir> asac: yes, we previously carried it, but I changed it in my profile.
[11:06] <asac> actually it should not reset your profile settings
[11:07] <cjwatson> asac: you should be able to commit to the seeds, though I don't remember if you've done so before
[11:07] <Mithrandir> asac: the change in my profile got dropped.
[11:07] <asac> Mithrandir: any other change got dropped?
[11:07] <Hobbsee> asac: you broke it!
[11:07] <asac> cjwatson: i haven't done that before
[11:07] <Mithrandir> asac: not that I can see, and most of my changes seem to be there.
[11:07] <cjwatson> asac: bzr checkout sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.gutsy/
[11:07] <Mithrandir> asac: (I don't have a list in my head of all the tweaks I have applied, sorry. :-)
[11:07] <Hobbsee> heh, i was about to offer to do it
[11:08] <asac> Mithrandir: do you have  backup of your profile (from a day or two ago)?
[11:08] <Mithrandir> asac: actually, I do.
[11:09] <Mithrandir> let me find it
[11:11] <asac> cjwatson: i have to submit a main inclusion report first, right?
[11:11] <asac> s/report/request/
[11:11] <cjwatson> if it's not in main already, yes
[11:12] <cjwatson> though it's probably fairly trivial as it's logically split out from firefox
[11:12] <cjwatson> in fact, I'm happy to just promote it
[11:12] <asac> yes ... let me do that main inclusion thing first ... anyway I look at desktop in the ubuntu.gutsy seeds branch
[11:12] <cjwatson> promoted, don't bother :)
[11:12] <asac> is that the file that I need to edit?
[11:12] <cjwatson> yes
[11:12] <asac> cjwatson: rock!
[11:13] <asac> hmmm the syntax doesn't look like xml ;)
[11:13] <cjwatson> it, er, isn't ;-)
[11:14] <cjwatson> it was originally on the wiki, as you can probably tell from the format
[11:14] <asac> is that some standard format or did we do a new parser for that?
[11:14] <asac> ah
[11:14] <asac> ok
[11:14] <cjwatson> the parser was hand-written
[11:14] <cjwatson> though is not exactly complicated
[11:15] <asac> so do i add this to the end of gnome desktop apps?
[11:15] <asac> oh probably sorted
[11:15] <asac> why are some things in brackets?
[11:16] <Mithrandir> recommends
[11:16] <Hobbsee> asac: they're recommends
[11:16] <asac> ah ok ... then this is the way to go
[11:16] <asac> thanks
[11:16] <cjwatson> asac: I'd stick it just after firefox
[11:17] <asac> ok
[11:17] <cjwatson> there's no requirement for lexical sorting
[11:17] <dholbach> I'm just reviewing the main sponsors queue, Tormod Volden merged grub from Debian - who would be best to check the merge?
[11:17] <pitti> asac: NB that you should merge this change to the derivatives who ship ffox as well, such as edubuntu and maybe xubuntu (I didn't check that one)
[11:17] <cjwatson> the format is very loosely documented in germinate(1), although that doesn't mention recommends
[11:18] <cjwatson> dholbach: hmm, I hate to say it but probably me
[11:18] <dholbach> cjwatson: is it ok, if I assign that bug to you?
[11:18] <cjwatson> dholbach: yeah
[11:18] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: delegation101: FAIL.
[11:18] <cjwatson> mm, hence "hate to say it"
[11:19] <dholbach> I just wanted to avoid getting beaten up at the distro sprint :)
[11:19] <asac> pitti: what do you mean with merge ... should I just add that to their seeds list?
[11:20] <asac> pitti: ah ... they probably have there own bzr branch 
[11:20] <pitti> asac: right, but by merging the ubuntu.gutsy changes to edubuntu.gutsy and so on
[11:20] <pitti> asac: right
[11:20] <cjwatson> that's not urgently necessay
[11:20] <cjwatson> necessary
[11:20] <cjwatson> particularly not if this is the first time you've touched the seeds :)
[11:21] <asac> pitti: hmm ... maybe this should be done by people that maintain those distros? ... ogra ?
[11:21] <pitti> asac: fine, you don't need to do it now, but I wanted to point out their existence :)
[11:21] <ogra> asac, i'll do that, thanks for the ping
[11:22] <asac> who is xubuntu lead btw?
[11:22] <pygi> jani monoses
[11:22] <dholbach> asac: janimo, gpocentek and mr_pouit work on it
[11:23] <asac> gpocentek: mr_pouit  ... i extended gutsy seeds by ubufox ... you probably want to merge that change from bzr
[11:23] <asac> ok ... i committed the new seeds ... when will the result become visible?
[11:24] <cjwatson> asac: you mean in ubuntu-meta dependencies?
[11:24] <pitti> asac: if you change the desktop, minimal, or standard seeds, you need to rebuild the ubuntu-meta package
[11:25] <pitti> asac: I'll walk you through it or can do it myself, depending on whether you want to learn it
[11:25] <cjwatson> asac: grab ubuntu-meta, run ./update, fix the version in debian/changelog (by default, you get ubuntu1, whereas it should be native version), and upload
[11:25] <pitti> cjwatson: btw, any chance that germinate-update-metapackage could call dch with -iU?
[11:25] <asac> cjwatson: ok ... will do
[11:26] <cjwatson> pitti: I was waiting until I figured out how to detect whether the -U option was present, since it isn't in Debian
[11:26] <cjwatson> dch --help | grep -- -U should be sufficient though
[11:26] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: okay, in more "hate to say it" news, could you be persuaded to sync https://launchpad.net/bugs/124363 - it's got to go thru binary NEW, and we need it for the digikam  & kipi syncs.  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124364 and <digikam sync still coming>
[11:26] <pitti> dch --help|grep -q -- -U?
[11:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124363 in libkdcraw "sync libkdcraw 0.1.1-2 from debian/unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[11:26] <pitti> cjwatson: heh :)
[11:26] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: well, were you planning to push that change back to debian a nyway?
[11:26] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: germinate is synced between Debian and Ubuntu right now
[11:27] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: ahh.  didnt check that
[11:27] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: syncs -> some other archive admin
[11:27] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: okay
[11:27] <cjwatson> preferably
[11:27] <pitti> Hobbsee: my duty shift today
[11:27] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: no problem
[11:27] <Hobbsee> pitti: the real problem is the binary NEW'ing, as we'd like to see it before tribe 3
[11:27] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: apologies for attempting to give you more work, then :)
[11:27] <pitti> Hobbsee: I can do that as well, of course
[11:28] <Hobbsee> pitti: true, but can doesnt necessarily mean "will"
[11:28] <pitti> Hobbsee: I already finished syncs today, so I'll open that bug in ffox, but I didn't get to NEW yet; will do a bit later
[11:29] <Hobbsee> pitti: no problem :)
[11:29] <Hobbsee> it's not critical
[11:30] <asac> Mithrandir: would be really great if you could confirm whether your setting gets reset by just upgrading firefox ... or by installing ubufox ... do you still have previous ffox package in your cache?
[11:31] <pitti> Hobbsee: synced
[11:31] <cjwatson> pitti: done in bzr
[11:31] <Hobbsee> pitti: thanks a lot
[11:31] <Mithrandir> asac: if not, I can get it from LP
[11:34] <asac> Mithrandir: hmmm where are those published/hidden?
[11:34] <asac> i just find links to sources ... no binaries
[11:35] <asac> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/2.0.0.4+2-0ubuntu2
[11:35] <pitti> Hobbsee: I let the stuff build now and thus it'll be in NEW once I turn my attention towards it
[11:36] <Hobbsee> pitti: excellent, thanks :)
[11:36] <persia> asac: click on "gutsy" in the release subsection
[11:37] <pitti> yay, all my tests for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CrashReporting are successful; I can flip the switch now :)
[11:41] <keescook> is there a command to recalculate the "@@" lines of a patch if I forgot to change them when editing the contents of patch?  :P
[11:42] <pitti> keescook: maybe editdiff it, do a trivial change, and have it fix the hunks for you?
[11:42] <keescook> pitti: ah-ha!  editdiff!
[11:42] <pitti> keescook: recountdiff claims to do this as well, but contrary to editdiff I never used it, so YMMV
[11:42] <keescook> yeah
[11:43] <Hobbsee> why couldnt have someone mentioned that a year ago?
[11:44] <pitti> Hobbsee: I'm sure that the patchutils description did that a year ago :)
[11:44] <keescook> \o/  worked
[11:44] <Hobbsee> pitti: then perhaps i should read it.
[11:44] <pitti> Hobbsee: it has some real live-safers
[11:45] <ion_> TimeTravel.travel(1.year.ago) { system "mail hobbsee <message" }
[11:45] <Hobbsee> haha
[11:45] <ion_> The TimeTravel implementation: http://johan.kiviniemi.name/stuff/ruby/acme/timetravel
[11:46] <wolfeon> ruby++
[11:46] <wolfeon> oh darn it, I forgot to test python-fam :)
[11:48] <shawarma> pitti: I'm looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sysklogd/+bug/19889 again... Is there anything more I should be doing? (other than poking the archive admins, of course :)   )
[11:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 19889 in sysklogd "sysklogd: Large file support is broken in dapper" [Medium,Fix committed]  
[11:49] <pitti> shawarma: erk, I wonder why that doesn't appear on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=verification-done
[11:49] <pitti> shawarma: that's the list I usually use
[11:49] <pitti> shawarma: I'll handle it, thanks for the poke
[11:53] <shawarma> pitti: np
[11:56] <pitti> shawarma: done
[11:58] <shawarma> \o/
[12:10] <pitti> dholbach: hm, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage seems to be the most appropriate place to add a stanza about how to handle apport crash bugs; WDYT?
[12:25] <pitti> keescook: on holiday
[12:26] <keescook> okay; I thought I remembered that, but thought I'd check.  :)
[12:27] <keescook> I'm curious if there is a common response for "zomg _cache->open() failed" bugs
[12:28] <Mithrandir> keescook: gslice thingies?
[12:28] <Mithrandir> oh, or no, that's something else
[12:56] <cjwatson> I have found it useful in the past
[12:56] <persia> cjwatson: Thanks for the feedback.  I'll go update my bugs
[12:57] <seb128> persia: I usually look for them in the Debian PTS, so having a link to the bug would be nice yes
[01:04] <luisbg> when is the next community council meeting?
[01:04] <pygi> anyone saw mvo lately?
[01:05] <cjwatson> 11:25  * keescook looks around for mvo
[01:05] <cjwatson> 11:25 <pitti> keescook: on holiday
[01:06] <pygi> cjwatson, o, didn't knew that
[01:06] <pygi> cjwatson, he should have told me that :P
[01:06] <pygi> cjwatson, thanks ^_^
[01:29] <dholbach> pitti: yes, I think so
[01:29] <pitti> dholbach: thanks; I did so (see my u-d-a@ mail)
[01:29] <dholbach> cool
[01:51] <Lure> any archive-admin around: can you give libkdcraw through binary NEW (to resolve build depends)?
[02:01] <seb128> Lure:done
[02:01] <Lure> seb128: thanks a lot!
[02:01] <seb128> no problem
[02:08] <glatzor> hello, is there anybody with a Belinea monitor? I would need an edid.
[02:53] <persia> Just to confirm my understanding of the phases of the devlopment cycle: is it the case that between DebianImportFreeze and UpstreamVersionFreeze, we're focused on stabilization and ensuring that the featureset we have is the featureset we wish to ship, or should we still be pulling all the new upstreams we can find until UpstreamVersionFreeze, at which point we would then focus on stabilization, etc.
[02:54] <cjwatson> persia: you should feel free to pull new upstreams, but generally that should be because it's needed for something (not necessarily stabilisation, could be a shiny new feature) rather than because it's there
[02:54] <cjwatson> persia: the reason for the split is to reduce the time that we spend essentially spinning wheels doing syncs and merges
[02:54] <persia> cjwatson: That's what I thought.  Thanks for the confirmation.
[02:55] <persia> cjwatson: Right.  So syncs & merges are pre-DIF, feature set development is DIF - UVF, and polish is port-UVF?
[02:55] <persia> s/port/post/
[02:55] <cjwatson> tracking syncs and merges and trying to ensure that they reach zero is pre-DIF
[02:55] <persia> Great.  Thanks.
[02:56] <cjwatson> feature set development is actually pre-FF but it so happens that UVF==FF this cycle
[02:56] <cjwatson> it turns out, of course, that often one of the best ways to develop a feature is to persuade upstream to do it and pull from them ...
[02:57] <persia> cjwatson: Sure :)
[03:15] <ScottK> keescook: Ping - I'm pondering trying to fix Bug #15485 and Bug #76983 (and thinking I might as well sweep up Bug #39459 while I'm at it.  Do you have a moment to discuss it?
[03:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 15485 in gnupg "kmail don't ask the phrase for gpg-encrypted mails" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/15485
[03:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 76983 in gnupg "Doesn't create settings correctly on first start" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76983
[03:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 39459 in gnupg "gnupg crash on breezy" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/39459
[03:20] <keescook> ScottK: one moment, just got back from lunch.  I'll go read them.
[03:20] <ScottK> OK.
[03:30] <Keybuk> xorg-server is very very large :-/
[03:31] <Mithrandir> much smaller than xfree. :-)
[03:31] <pygi> :P
[03:31] <Keybuk> I think I encountered a libtool bug ...
[03:31] <Keybuk> Xdmx (whatever that is) wasn't linking against composite, damageext, xfixes, etc.
[03:32] <Mithrandir> Xdmx is distributed multihead X.
[03:32] <Mithrandir> like Xinerama on heavy, heavy drugs.
[03:32] <Keybuk> yeah, I figured I didn't need/care about that bit, but it was stopping the build :p
[03:35] <Keybuk> of course, I am applying random patches from the Internet; so this could all go horribly wrong :p
[03:45] <agoliveira> Can anyone there help me with a sed line? I have a string like this "hotkey ATKD 00000020 00000001" and I need to have as result just the 2 last digits of the first number (20 in this case).
[03:47] <coNP> agoliveira: what about |cut -d " " -f 3 | tail -c 2
[03:48] <agoliveira> coNP: That should do. I was just hoping to make a RE on this.
[03:50] <Keybuk> s/^[^0-9] *\([0-9] [0-9] \).*/\1/
[03:50] <coNP> Keybuk: does not work for me
[03:50] <agoliveira> Keybuk: Nope. I got 00
[03:51] <Keybuk> oh, sorry, last two digits
[03:51] <agoliveira> coNP: BTW, it should be tail -c 3 because of the trailing space 
[03:52] <coNP> sure I noticed that since :)
[03:52] <Keybuk> s/^[^0-9] *[0-9] *\([0-9] [0-9] \).*/\1/
[03:52] <agoliveira> Keybuk: That's it :)
[03:53] <agoliveira> Geez... I really have to read again about REs.
[03:53] <agoliveira> sorry coNP
[03:54] <Keybuk> odd request time
[03:54] <Keybuk> anyone got an HD video file (like a trailer or something?)
[03:55] <thom> Keybuk: download one from apple?
[03:55] <ogra> HD TV but no recording device here :/
[03:55] <agoliveira> Keybuk: Look for that Elephant Dream short movie.
[03:55] <Ng> there's fairly good google juice from: hd sample video  :)
[03:56] <Keybuk> thom: ah, good call!
[04:06] <Hobbsee> bah.  why is pitti *always* not here when i have a earth-shattering line of logic for him?
[04:06] <Hobbsee> and why is heno not here whenever i want to speak to him?
[04:06] <axxo> because then you couldn't make us curious with lines like that
[04:08] <keescook> ScottK: I can't say I entirely understand 15485.  76983 looks very important to fix, and yeah, snag 39459 while you're in there.  :)
[04:09] <keescook> er, I should say, I'm not sure I understand the full ramifications of the proposed solution to 15485.
[04:09] <ScottK> keescook: For 15485 we need to configure gpg to use-agent.  I had mail to devel discuss on the topic.  All the other pieces are there.
[04:10] <Hobbsee> pitti!   speak of the devil!
[04:10] <keescook> ScottK: will this cause problems for people who use gpg when outside of xorg?
[04:10] <ScottK> No.
[04:11] <ScottK> If gpg is configured for agent and it can't find an agent it just prints to the terminal that it couldn't find an agent and asks you for the passphrase as usual.
[04:11] <pitti> Hobbsee!
[04:11] <seb128> pitti: re, could you give a retry to gnome-main-menu on all arches?
[04:12] <ScottK> Both pinentry-qt and pinentry-gtk have fallback modes for curses.
[04:12] <keescook> ScottK: aah, perfect.  sounds good to me then.  :)
[04:12] <ScottK> Here's the mail: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-July/001282.html
[04:12] <pitti> seb128: don
[04:12] <ScottK> OK.  I'll go work on them some more and ping you when I have a diff.
[04:12] <seb128> pitti: danke
[04:12] <pitti> seb128: ...e
[04:13] <ScottK> Actually it's pinentry-gtk2... not gtk.
[04:13] <StevenK> pitti: libcurl4, libcurl4-openssl, libgoffice-0-3, libgoffice-gtk-0-3 and libntfs-3g2 can all disappear now, they all no longer have rdepends.
[04:13] <keescook> ScottK: looks good to me.  :)  go for it.
[04:13] <ScottK> OK.
[04:13] <Hobbsee> pitti: how busy are you at this point?  i've had some earth-shattering thoughts w.r.t cd testing/release management.
[04:14] <Hobbsee> pitti: which i should probably run past you, as you're the current RM.
[04:14] <Hobbsee> but, i can wait until you're not busy if you prefer
[04:14] <pitti> StevenK: yay!
[04:15] <seb128> StevenK, pitti: I cleaned some of them already, doing libgoffice now
[04:15] <pitti> Hobbsee: that's fine, I'll just do some NEW love alongside
[04:15] <StevenK> seb128: Oh, great
[04:16] <StevenK> seb128: If you do a rebuild of gnome-power-manager, libwnck18 can go, too
[04:16] <StevenK> If bug 124385 is dealt with, too
[04:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124385 in emerald "Packages to remove from Gutsy" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124385
[04:16] <pitti> StevenK: I think seb already removed 2/3 of gnutls and libntfs-3g2, but I didn't see rebuilds for goffice yet
[04:16] <seb128> StevenK: a new package has been uploaded this morning and I already removed libwnck18
[04:16] <StevenK> seb128: Great.
[04:17] <pitti> seb128, StevenK: let me regenerate cruft first
[04:17] <StevenK> pitti: I uploaded two of them one and two hours ago
[04:17] <pitti> ah, cool
[04:17] <seb128> I mentionned them on #ubuntu-motu and he picked them immediatly, good team work ;)
[04:17] <pitti> NBS regenerating
[04:18] <StevenK> I've been living and breathing the NBS list for the past two days, just ask pitti. :-)
[04:19] <pitti> updated
[04:20] <pitti> heh, does libgoffice have a dependency on itself, or what? :)
[04:20] <StevenK> Hmph, it hasn't seen my uploads of gchempaint and gnome-chemistry-utils.
[04:20] <seb128> pitti: looks like ;)
[04:21] <geser> StevenK: is the NBS file for libwnck18 already gone? because emerald and heliodor still depend on it
[04:22] <StevenK> geser: seb128 killed libwnck18 already, and NBS can't check it if it isn't in the archive ...
[04:22] <seb128> geser: there is a removal bugs for those
[04:23] <geser> ah, seen the bug now
[04:23] <seb128> and it's pitti's archive day, so I'm sure you can get him to close the bug ;)
[04:23] <StevenK> pitti? *flutters his eyelashes*
[04:24] <seb128> StevenK: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8322723/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.gchempaint_0.6.6-3build1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
[04:24] <seb128> StevenK: both libgoffice3 and 4 got installed
[04:25] <StevenK> I see that.
[04:25] <StevenK> I see why, too
[04:25] <StevenK> I wasn't aware gchempaint also linked against libgcu.
[04:25] <StevenK> seb128: I'll reupload gchempaint when I get up.
[04:25] <seb128> ok
[04:27] <geser> StevenK: what's your plan with beryl-ubuntu package which depends on heliodor?
[04:28] <StevenK> Kill it also?
[04:28] <geser> StevenK: I can upload gchempaint if you want
[04:28] <StevenK> geser: It needs to wait for gnome-chemical-utils, and I already have it prepared.
[04:30] <geser> is emerald/ heliodor the only part from beryl already merged?
[04:30] <StevenK> For CompComm? No idea.
[04:48] <shirish> ogra: can you look at http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/28806/ and see if there is a bug filed against it, icon-theme & artwork of edubuntu doesn't live with ubuntu, xubuntu-desktop icon theme & artwork. 
[04:48] <shirish> ogra: seb128 told me you are the best person to answer this 
[04:48] <shirish> or know about this
[04:49] <ogra> shirish, sorry, i didnt have time to care for edubuntu-artwork yet, some dependencies need to change ... i'll do that before tribe3
[04:51] <shirish> ogra: ok cool, i just wanted to know if a bug has been filed against it, so I know the progress whenever you do the edubuntu-artwork stuff & release it. So I can try installing it then. 
[04:51] <Ditiris> Can anyone give me a clue on how to diagnose this problem:
[04:51] <Ditiris> *Loading hardware drivers... 
[04:51] <Ditiris> [    43.288051]  input: PC Speaker as /class/input/input3 
[04:51] <Ditiris> [    43.320373]  pci_hotplug: PCI Hot Plug PCI Core version: 0.5 
[04:51] <Ditiris> [    43.321851]  shpchp: Standard Hot Plug PCI Controller Driver version: 0.4 
[04:51] <Ditiris> [    43.323796]  agpgart: Detected an Intel 965G Chipset. 
[04:52] <Ditiris> [    43.338657]  Bad page state in process 'modprobe' 
[04:52] <ogra> edubuntu-artwork needs some essential changes thats why i didnt touch it yet, i want to do it all in one go
[04:52] <Ditiris> [    43.338659]  page:ffff81011fd3e308 flags:0x0000000000000000 mapping:0000000000000000 mapcount:1 count:0 
[04:52] <Ditiris> [    43.338660]  Trying to fix it up, but a reboot is needed 
[04:52] <Ditiris> [    43.338661]  Backtrace: 
[04:52] <Ditiris> [    43.338712]  Bad page state in process 'modprobe' 
[04:52] <Ditiris> [    43.338714]  page:ffff81011fdb9860 flags:0x0000000000000000 mapping:0000000000000000 mapcount:1 count:0 
[04:52] <Ditiris> [    43.338715]  Trying to fix it up, but a reboot is needed 
[04:52] <ion_> ditiris: PLEASE
[04:52] <Ditiris> [    43.338716]  Backtrace: 
[04:52] <Ditiris> [    43.338717]  
[04:52] <Ditiris> [    43.338718]  Call Trace: 
[04:52] <seb128> !op
[04:52] <ubotu> Help! bhale, infinity, Hobbsee, jdub, thom, fooishbar, fabbione, mdz, lamont, or Keybuk
[04:52] <Ditiris> [    43.339539]  
[04:52] <Ditiris> [    43.339540]  Call Trace:
[04:52] <seb128> Hobbsee: thanks
[04:52] <Hobbsee> seb128: no problem
[04:53] <Hobbsee> ogra: that means i should hound you about the artwork stuff?
[04:53] <ogra> nah
[04:53] <ogra> :)
[04:53] <Hobbsee> you're *kidding* me.
[04:53] <shirish> ogra: ok in that case, should I file a bug & then tell you about it, so the bug-report tells me when you are done with it. 
[04:53] <ogra> i need to care for it anyway, else tribe3 wont happen
[04:53] <Hobbsee> the guy just flooded #ubuntu with it too, after getting kickbanned from here!!!!
[04:54] <ogra> shirish, feel free
[04:54] <shirish> ogra: ok cool 
[04:54] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: I'd have just kicked him rather than banning him too ...
[04:54] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: true, but i'm too used to /kb
[04:54] <shirish> ogra: erm.... which package should it be filed under?
[04:54] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: i've been dealing with #ubuntu for a few days
[04:55] <ogra> shirish, edubuntu-artwork
[04:55] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: also, i didnt want him to rejoin, say "did you get my question?" and start flooding again.  clueless people do that.
[04:55] <shirish> ogra: ok, there is a meta-package by that name, I just took it like that
[04:56] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: whereas if they see the big "you are banned" message, they tend to have to read it a few times, when they realise they cant rejoin the channel, and actually think about it and process it.
[04:57] <azeem> just banning might be more effective then, it will silence them, and you can explain them in-channel what they did wrong
[04:58] <StevenK> Or +q them.
[04:58] <Hobbsee> azeem: well, the guy hasnt jumped into #ubuntu yet again either?
[04:58] <Hobbsee> StevenK: /kb is faster than /quiet
[04:58] <Hobbsee> and both are faster than /remove
[04:58] <Hobbsee> and the autoresponse is to reach for the /k or the /kb
[04:58] <StevenK> You just have itchy trigger fingers. :-P
[04:59] <Hobbsee> StevenK: hush, you, else i'll make you op #ubuntu during australian timezones for a week.
[04:59] <Hobbsee> and that'll give you a trigger finger too
[04:59] <Hobbsee> and -offtopic :)
[04:59] <StevenK> Heh
[04:59] <Ditiris> Sorry about the large text.
[04:59] <Ditiris> Here's the error I receive in console: Here's the console output: http://paste.uni.cc/16642
[04:59] <Hobbsee> Ditiris: please please please learn about a pastebin
[05:00] <Ditiris> Hobbsee: Sorry.
[05:00] <Hobbsee> no problem
[05:01] <Hobbsee> Ditiris: i'd suggest you go to #ubuntu+1 for gutsy support, though, seeing as this is not a support channel
[05:01] <Ditiris> Hobbsee: Thank you for redirect.
[05:01] <Hobbsee> no problem
[05:01] <shirish> ogra: filed bug 124414
[05:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124414 in edubuntu-artwork "[Gutsy]  edubuntu-artwork reports a conflict with ubuntu, xubuntu-artwork" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124414
[05:01] <ogra> thanks
[05:01] <Hobbsee> Ditiris: in fact ^ is the issue you're facing, i imagine
[05:01] <shirish> :)
[05:01] <Hobbsee> oh wait.  wrong pastebin
[05:02] <shirish> ubotu paste
[05:02] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[05:03] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: btw - a lot of clients now rejoin on kick.  so you really have to use a remove, or a kickban
[05:08] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: they don't usually continue pasting, though
[05:08] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: and if they do, *then* you can kickban
[05:08] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: erm...can i just agree to disagree with you there, on the first line, having seen too much of #ubuntu recently?
[05:09] <LaughingMan> fdfd
[05:09] <Hobbsee> hi LaughingMan 
[05:10] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: fair enough
[05:11] <Hobbsee> hehe, good luck :)
[05:11] <Hobbsee> pygi: yes :)
[05:12] <Hobbsee> pygi: need a sponsor for htem?
[05:12] <pygi> Hobbsee, yes, but next week
[05:12] <Hobbsee> pygi: oh right.  for some reason i thought it was a week later.
[05:13] <pygi> /kickban Hobbsee do not paste
[05:13] <pygi> :)
[05:13] <Hobbsee> pygi: /kb Hobbsee learn to spell
[05:14] <cjwatson> pitti: confirmed your restricted-manager bug, BTW, or at least a different incarnation of the same problem - it bites ubiquity-oem too
[05:14] <Hobbsee> pygi: not much point though.  i can unban myself, being on the access list :)
[05:14] <cjwatson> it's actually more of a missing feature :-(
[05:15] <pygi> Hobbsee, :)
[05:16] <pitti> cjwatson: in the sense of "apt-install doesn't install anything that's not already in the live system"?
[05:17] <cjwatson> pitti: yees
[05:17] <cjwatson> er, yes
[05:17] <cjwatson> it prevents things from being removed, but doesn't actually install them. whoops
[05:17] <Hobbsee> it's broken, and i dont know how to fix it.
[05:19] <geser> Hobbsee: what did you break?
[05:20] <Hobbsee> geser: it was already broken.
[05:20] <Hobbsee> geser: i fixed some of the FTBFS' in the bzr, and then got stuck.
[05:21] <Hobbsee> unfortunatley, stevenk's rebuild in the archive FTBFS too.  so we actually have no building apt at the moment.
[05:43] <pitti> keescook: ^ so moving that script to the top of the stack didn't help
[05:43] <Hobbsee> pitti: that really does seem to hate you..
[05:44] <pitti> as much as I love it when it works, yes
[05:45] <keescook> pitti: ugh.  let me see if I want figure out some way to export and import replies -- that way you can externally save them.
[05:45] <keescook> Hobbsee: have you seen them vanish for you ever?
[05:45] <pitti> keescook: I wonder whether I'm the only one who sees this
[05:45] <Hobbsee> keescook: nope
[05:45] <pitti> keescook: I might just kill my ffox profile and start all over
[05:45] <Hobbsee> keescook: not even changing firefox versions
[05:45] <keescook> pitti: so far, the people I know of using it is me, bdmurray, Hobbsee, and you.
[05:45] <pitti> keescook: or maybe some of Mithrandir's and your scripts don't mix well with that one
[05:46] <pitti> keescook: I think Mithrandir has a version which hardcodes the replies in the .js source; that would work, too
[05:46] <keescook> yeah, the hardcoded one was where mine started from.
[05:50] <Kano> why is in a daily snapshot of a kubunut live cd the xserver-xorg-intel 2.0.0 and not 2.1.0?
[05:52] <luisbg> cjwatson, thanks for the approval in devel ML
[05:52] <Hobbsee> Kano: what was the build date on the daily snapshot?
[05:53] <Kano> 671M 2007-07-06 06:26 gutsy-desktop-amd64.iso
[05:53] <Kano> also i need a new mesa snapshot
[05:53] <Hobbsee> that's the time/date it was modified on your system.  != build date
[05:53] <Kano> for 3d on intel g33
[05:53] <Hobbsee> ie, that tells us nothing about which build it might be
[05:53] <Kano> i download with wget -N, thats server data
[05:54] <Kano> the latest
[05:54] <Kano> for g33 you need 2.1.0+new mesa
[05:56] <Kano> mesa from sid is still too old
[05:56] <Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ madison xserver-xorg-video-intel
[05:56] <Hobbsee> xserver-xorg-video-intel | 2:2.1.0-1ubuntu1 | http://mirror.pacific.net.au gutsy/main Packages
[05:56] <Hobbsee> xserver-xorg-video-intel | 2:2.1.0-1ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/main Packages
[05:56] <Hobbsee> xserver-xorg-video-intel | 2:2.1.0-1ubuntu1 | http://mirror.pacific.net.au gutsy/main Sources
[05:56] <Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ madison mesa
[05:57] <Hobbsee>       mesa | 7.0.0-0ubuntu2 | http://mirror.pacific.net.au gutsy/main Sources
[05:57] <Hobbsee> them?
[05:57] <Kano> the intel driver works when i do a dist-upgrade 
[05:58] <Kano> just 2d
[05:58] <Kano> btw. hal breaks the dist-upgrade of the lastest iso
[05:58] <Kano> but at least intel driver is current enough
[05:59] <Kano> mesa is indirect rendering
[05:59] <Hobbsee> pitti: the daily cds that are building - are they actually real dailies, with what's in the archive, or are they the same as the tribe 2 ones, just with a different date?
[05:59] <pitti> Hobbsee: real dailies actually
[05:59] <Hobbsee> that's weird.
[06:00] <Hobbsee> pitti: any idea why the xserver-xorg-video-intel, mesa wouldnt be the updated versions on the cds, then?
[06:01] <pitti> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20070706/gutsy-alternate-amd64.list has /pool/main/m/mesa/libgl1-mesa-glx_7.0.0-0ubuntu2_amd64.deb
[06:01] <pitti> which is precisely the current version in gutsy
[06:02] <pitti> same for -xorg-intel
[06:02] <cjwatson> the live filesystem builds are failing, though
[06:02] <pitti> mesa is current on i386 alternate as well, but -intel isn't on the CD
[06:02] <cjwatson> note that Kano is using desktop not alternate
[06:02] <pitti> aah
[06:02] <cjwatson> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[06:02] <cjwatson>   libcurl3-gnutls: Conflicts: libcurl4-gnutls but 7.16.2-6ubuntu3 is to be installed
[06:02] <cjwatson>   libcurl4-gnutls: Depends: libcurl3-gnutls (= 7.16.2-6ubuntu3) but 7.16.2-6ubuntu4 is to be installed
[06:03] <Hobbsee> even by using http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/20070706/gutsy-alternate-i386.list
[06:03] <pitti> Hobbsee: right, due to curl and OOo mess
[06:03] <Kano> also i use KUBUNTU desktop
[06:03] <pitti> Hobbsee: we need the OO.o package from calc 
[06:03] <cjwatson> Kano: Kubuntu is not an acronym and thus should not be in all-caps
[06:03] <Hobbsee> Kano: yeah, i eventually figured that one, due to the file size.  helpful if you can actually *tell* us such information, without having to go fishing for it, too, btw
[06:03] <cjwatson> same error for Kubuntu, anyway
[06:03] <Kano> cjwatson: ?
[06:04] <pitti> Kano: we need to get rid of the libcurl4 package, which requires a new OO.o upload
[06:04] <Hobbsee> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/20070706/gutsy-desktop-amd64.list that, sorry
[06:04] <cjwatson> Kano: you said "KUBUNTU". That is not the correct capitalisation. In English only acronyms should be in all capital letters.
[06:04] <pitti> after that's done, live CDs will build again; its' already in progress
[06:04] <Kano> cjwatson: i just wanted to tell you that i dont use the ubuntu one
[06:04] <cjwatson> I realise that, but it doesn't matter in this case
[06:04] <cjwatson> both have the same problem
[06:05] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: anywhere public that we can check the live filesystem builds, then?
[06:05] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: sure, they've been public for ages and ages
[06:05] <pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/
[06:05] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: sorry, where are they?
[06:05] <Hobbsee> ahhh....
[06:05] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: 
[06:05] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/
[06:05] <Hobbsee> thanks
[06:05] <cjwatson> cd-build-logs is something else
[06:05] <pitti> ah, right
[06:06] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/gutsy/kubuntu/latest/livecd-20070706.1-amd64.out is the one pertaining to Kano's build
[06:07] <Kano> how about using aufs instead of unionfs?
[06:08] <Kano> unionfs behaves very bad in some cases (especally in vm)
[06:08] <Kano> aufs is very similar in use and does not have that problem
[06:08] <cjwatson> pkl is looking into newer versions of unionfs; not sure about aufs
[06:09] <Kano> using aufs is really the more stable choice
[06:09] <cjwatson> we certainly cannot use something not in the Ubuntu kernel, though
[06:09] <cjwatson> so the appropriate people to ask are the kernel team
[06:09] <Kano> well i do my own live cd, i have integrated both for testing
[06:10] <Kano> hmm in theory mesa 7 is new enough when i grep for G33..
[06:11] <Kano> but why do i have got still indirect rendering then
[06:11] <Kano> will check with next livecd...
[06:15] <pitti> bye Hobbsee 
[06:15] <keescook> cya Hobbsee
[06:15] <Hobbsee> :)
[06:16] <Hobbsee> :)
[06:35] <ScottK> keescook: gnupg has me stumped.  The recommended change for installing the config file does not appear to me to solve the problem.  Would you be able to look at it?
[06:37] <pkl_> cjwatson: I'm currently looking into both Unionfs and aufs...
[06:40] <keescook> ScottK: just heading out now; can you describe the issues in that first bug?  I can dig into it a little later?
[06:41] <ScottK> OK.  I'll attach the debdiff of where I am with some additional discussion and subscribe you to the bug if you aren't. keescook: will that work?
[06:41] <keescook> yup!  perfect, thanks.  :)
[06:47] <geser> ScottK: what problem do you have?
[06:50] <ScottK> geser: I'm writing it in the bug just now.  
[06:51] <ScottK> geser: Please see Bug #76983
[06:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 76983 in gnupg "Doesn't create settings correctly on first start" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76983
[06:51] <ScottK> geser: There's no pride of authorship here.  If you can figure it, please do.
[06:54] <geser> ScottK: have you already a .gnupg/gpg.conf?
[06:55] <ScottK> No
[06:55] <ScottK> I did, but I removed it before installing.
[06:55] <geser> only the file or the whole dir .gnupg?
[06:55] <ScottK> Only the file
[06:56] <geser> can you check if you still have a problem, with no .gnupg dir?
[06:56] <ScottK> OK.
[06:56] <ScottK> On the phone at the moment.
[07:03] <ScottK> geser: When I ran gpg after moving .gnupg it reacreate the dir, but no gpg.conf in it.
[07:08] <geser> and the error about the wrong directory to options.skel is gone?
[07:09] <tsmithe> erm...
[07:09] <nixternal> yay, idiot on board
[07:09] <tsmithe> ok that was weird
[07:09] <nixternal> !ops
[07:09] <ubotu> Help! bhale, infinity, Hobbsee, jdub, thom, fooishbar, fabbione, mdz, lamont, or Keybuk
[07:09] <geser> ScottK: is there a reason why you comment out the 60_install_options_skel patch in 00list in your debdiff? only because it's not working?
[07:10] <ScottK> Argh
[07:10] <GhoSt> !ops
[07:10] <ubotu> Help! bhale, infinity, Hobbsee, jdub, thom, fooishbar, fabbione, mdz, lamont, or Keybuk
[07:10] <ScottK> There is a reason, but not a good one.
[07:10] <GhoSt> !ops*
[07:10] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ops* - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[07:10] <GhoSt> !ops
[07:10] <thom> oi!
[07:10] <GhoSt> !ops
[07:10] <thom> once is enough
[07:10] <GhoSt> Help me ! Im lame !!
[07:11] <nixternal> thank you thom
[07:11] <GhoSt> bye
[07:11] <GhoSt> Happy to knew U :'(
[07:11] <GhoSt> !ops
[07:11] <ubotu> Help! bhale, infinity, Hobbsee, jdub, thom, fooishbar, fabbione, mdz, lamont, or Keybuk
[07:11] <ScottK> geser: I had a theory that maybe the patch was getting applied to late in the build process so edited the makefiles directly and commented out the patch.  Forgot to uncomment the patch for the debdiff.
[07:11] <GhoSt> !help kb me !
[07:11] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about help kb me ! - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[07:11] <thom> W.T.F?
[07:12] <nixternal> hehe
[07:13] <ScottK> geser: I also (just) tried creating a new user and running gpg there.  Same result.
[07:15] <pitti> Listing ubuntu/None (NEW) 0/0
[07:16] <pitti> *phew*
[07:17] <nixternal> 0/0 means you need work :)
[07:17] <pitti> nixternal: thanks, staring at licenses and files for two hours is enough for a day :)
[07:18] <nixternal> ahh, licenses are not fun at all
[07:20] <tsmithe> thanks for going through the queue, pitti :)
[07:29] <bhale> thom: jeez
[07:32] <geser> pitti: have you some time to upload a small fix for the apt FTBFS?
[07:33] <pitti> geser: I'm about to leave, but if it's quick, toss it over
[07:34] <geser> pitti: http://members.ping.de/~mb/apt.debdiff
[07:35] <geser> it just needed a autoconf before building the source package
[07:35] <pitti> geser: did you check this into the bzr?
[07:36] <geser> not yet
[07:36] <ScottK> geser: I wonder if that's my problem with GPG too....
[07:36] <pitti> I'd rather have it there, for the sake of consistency
[07:36] <geser> have to figure out how to do it
[07:36] <shawarma> geser: That works?!?
[07:37] <geser> I can't commit directly to the apt bzr
[07:37] <pitti> geser: ok, I'll commit it there
[07:37] <geser> shawarma: yes, it complained that it can't find autoconf
[07:37] <geser> pitti: thanks
[07:38] <pitti> geser: thanks for fixing
[07:39] <geser> ScottK: looking at your gnupg problem now
[07:40] <ScottK> Thanks
[07:47] <pitti> geser: uploaded; bzr get takes ages, I'll check it in later
[07:50] <pitti> have a nice weekend
[08:21] <ScottK> geser: I don't have it figured yet, but I'm thinking it's a path issue of some kind.
[08:30] <geser> ScottK: I guess you were right about autoconf
[08:30] <ScottK> Could you make it work then?
[08:30] <geser> I'm doing a build know
[08:32] <geser> ScottK: gpg: new configuration file `/tmp/.gnupg/gpg.conf' created
[08:32] <geser> gpg: WARNING: options in `/tmp/.gnupg/gpg.conf' are not yet active during this run
[08:32] <geser> I tested it from within a pbuilder
[08:33] <ScottK> OK.  What additional changes did you make then?
[08:33] <geser> it only works if the user hasn't run gnugpg before (i.e. has no ~/.gnupg dir)
[08:34] <eagles0513875> do we have any debuggers in here cuz i just bought a linux magazine that hasa kool program that is easy to debug stuff
[08:34] <geser> ScottK: http://members.ping.de/~mb/60_install_options_skel.dpatch
[08:35] <geser> that's the updated dpatch
[08:35] <geser> I've run autogen.sh and stripped out the unneeded changes (as I did know how to patch g10/Makefile.in by hand)
[08:36] <geser> the only new patches are for configure and g10/Makefile.in
[08:36] <ScottK> OK.  Would you update the debdiff on the bug then or do you want me to?
[08:37] <geser> I will update it
[08:37] <Kmos> BenC: bug 63402
[08:37] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 63402 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Edgy Beta cannot boot" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/63402
[08:38] <ScottK> geser: Great.  Thanks.
[08:39] <eagles0513875> ScottK: u might like this program www.undo-software.com 
[08:39] <eagles0513875> it should make debugging stuff easier
[08:40] <ScottK> eagles0513875: This isn't a random chit-chat about stuff channel.
[08:40] <eagles0513875> i know i was just trying to make debugging easier for u guys
[08:42] <ScottK> eagles0513875: If you know anything about Ubuntu at all, I think you'd understand that random touting of proprietary software isn't particularly appreciated.
[08:42] <eagles0513875> ok
[08:52] <geser> ScottK: while we are it: could we fix bug #62864 too?
[08:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 62864 in gnupg "[Edgy]  Refreshing my keyring stops after some keys (keyserver time out)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/62864
[08:52] <geser> adding libcurl to build-depends fixed it for me and I've done it already for gnupg2 which I use
[08:52] <ScottK> geser: I sure don't mind.
[08:53] <ScottK> It all depends on what you can convince keescook to upload.
[08:54] <ScottK> And if it's your name at the bottom of the debian/changelog entry so you touched it last and not me, I don't mind that either ;-)
[08:57] <Luckye> hello
[08:57] <Luckye> there is someone who now use php?
[08:57] <ScottK> Luckye: This is a development channel, not a support channel.  Try #ubuntu.
[08:58] <Luckye> mmm
[08:58] <Luckye> sorry
[08:58] <Luckye> thanks 
[08:58] <ScottK> No problem.
[08:58] <Luckye> how can i access at that room?
[08:58] <evand> Luckye: type /join #ubuntu
[08:59] <Luckye> where? here?
[08:59] <geser> that same way you joined this channel
[09:10] <Luckye> escuseme?
[09:10] <Pici> Just type it here.
[09:11] <Luckye> where is there someone who can help me to learn to use  glade?
[09:11] <ScottK> Luckye: In the same place you just typed escuseme?, type /join #ubuntu
[09:11] <ScottK> Luckye: Not here.  It's off topic for this channel.
[09:16] <geser> ScottK: added the updated debdiff to the bug
[09:16] <geser> waiting now for keescook for review :)
[09:16] <ScottK> Cool.  Thanks.
[09:22] <ScottK> geser: I see you added libcurl4-gnutls-dev.  I thought we went back to libcurl3?
[09:24] <geser> yes, curl is very special nowadays
[09:25] <geser> the package with the library is called libcurl3{,-gnutls} but the headers are in libcurl4-*-dev
[09:26] <ScottK> geser: At this point the fix for the lack of a gpg.conf only works on new installs.  Should we do something for upgrades?
[09:29] <geser> ScottK: I'd add only a news entry
[09:30] <geser> users already using gnupg must add the option manually (if they use kmail)
[09:30] <ScottK> OK.  I guess we cover that in the documentation.
[10:08] <ScottK> geser: What about a check in the postinst to see if ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf exists and cp /usr/share/gnupg/options.skel ~/.gnugpg/gpg.conf if it doesn't.  That won't help a lot for multi-user systems, but for single user systems that would solve the concequences of the bug without risking over-writing existing user setting.
[10:09] <geser> ScottK: package installation is run as root so ~ will point to /root
[10:09] <ScottK> Of course.
[10:10] <ScottK> We could walk through all the dirs in /home, but it's probably well into more trouble than it's worth at that point.
[10:12] <superm1> ScottK, what is the bug you guys are referring to?
[10:13] <geser> superm1: bug #76983
[10:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 76983 in gnupg "Doesn't create settings correctly on first start" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76983
[10:15] <geser> ScottK: when I think again about it, I'm not sure if ~ will point to /root as update-manager is run through sudo but I wouldn't depend on this
[10:16] <geser> that it points to the users home
[10:16] <superm1> at the same time wouldn't you want to install that options file into /etc/skel too?
[10:16] <ScottK> Right.  If we were going to do it we would want to check explicitly in each dir in /home.
[10:17] <ScottK> superm1: That would make sense.
[10:17] <geser> superm1: gnupg copies it itself if no ~/.gnupg exists (but you can do it also through /etc/skel)
[10:17] <superm1> ah
[10:18] <ScottK> superm1: You want to whip us up a quick shell script I can add to the postinst to make it all better?
[10:19] <superm1> ScottK, I could later on - but i'm at work atm :)
[10:19] <ScottK> Ah.
[10:19] <ScottK> geser: Is libcurl4-gnutls supposed to be installable right now?
[10:20] <geser> ScottK: as gnupg is in the ubuntu-minimal task it's installed on every system so I'd be very careful about scanning /home (I think about edubuntu/LTSP)
[10:20] <ScottK> superm1: If you get to it before keescook does the gnupg upload you might add it to the debdiff on bug #76983.
[10:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 76983 in gnupg "Doesn't create settings correctly on first start" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76983
[10:21] <ScottK> geser: I was thinking look for .gnupg and if you don't find it, stop.  If you do check for gpg.conf.  If you do find it, stop.  If you don't copy in the skel file.
[10:21] <geser> ScottK: you mean libcurl4-gnuts-dev? yes, at least in a pbuilder
[10:22] <superm1> ScottK, okay i'll see if i can do that later this evening
[10:22] <ScottK> geser: Any chance you could pop over to #kubuntu and give manchicken (don't ask) a hand with it as he's still having trouble with it (libcurl4-gnutls).
[10:23] <geser> sure
[10:23] <ScottK> geser: Oops.  #kubuntu-devel.  Sorry.
[10:30] <superm1> ScottK, actually i've got a quick script you can throw in it
[10:30] <superm1> i just ack'ed how easy that would be 
[10:30] <superm1> let me throw it in a pastebin for you
[10:31] <ScottK> OK
[10:32] <superm1> ScottK, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/28858/
[10:33] <geser> superm1: I'd only copy it if a .gnupg exists
[10:33] <geser> that way only users using gpg get it
[10:34] <geser> if the user decides to use gpg in the future he will get the actual options file when running gpg the first time
[10:35] <ScottK> Yes.  I agree with that.
[10:36] <superm1> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/28861/
[10:36] <ion_> Also be paranoid about someone stupid enough to have a space in his username. :-) (Does something prevent that?)
[10:36] <superm1> something like that instead then
[10:37] <geser> ion_: I'm not sure if adduser allows them
[10:37] <geser> superm1: you also want to fix the ownership, the user should be able to edit it afterwards
[10:38] <evand> ion_: the installer checks for that
[10:38] <evand> but yeah, not sure if you can do it after the fact
[10:38] <superm1> geser, what should permissions be on the resultant file then?
[10:38] <evand> apparently not
[10:38] <superm1> -rw-r--r--?
[10:39] <ScottK> 600 I think
[10:39] <ScottK> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/28862/
[10:39] <ScottK> is what I was thinking.
[10:39] <superm1> right
[10:39] <superm1> but dont you need the file your changing as an argument?
[10:39] <ScottK> I have a dapper box (with a gpg.conf from before this bug was introduced) and it's 600
[10:40] <ScottK> Yeah. Details like which file...
[10:40] <ScottK> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/28863/'
[10:40] <ScottK> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/28863/
[10:40] <ScottK> even
[10:40] <geser> ScottK: it's not garanteed that every user has it's own group (although is common)
[10:41] <ScottK> That's the standard Ubuntu install, right?
[10:42] <ScottK> ?
[10:42] <geser> yes, USERGROUPS=yes in /etc/adduser.conf
[10:43] <ion_> getent passwd | awk 'FS=":" { if ($3 >= 1000) print $6 }' | while read home; do if [ -d "$home/.gnupg" ] ; then ...; fi; done
[10:43] <geser> but I don't know if it's true for all Ubuntu variants
[10:43] <geser> ScottK: and a package updated shouldn't fail on a non-standard installation
[10:44] <axxo> nor should it mess around in $home imo, but i'm clueless
[10:44] <ScottK> Agreed.
[10:44] <geser> axxo: that too
[10:44] <ScottK> axxo: normally you wouldn't have too, but the bug is a missing conf file.  The question is how to get it un-missing.
[10:45] <axxo> it doesn't inherit from a global defaults config file?
[10:45] <ScottK> Not if you are past first run for gpg.
[10:46] <cjwatson> ScottK: can't the program itself be fixed, rather than hacking around it in the postinst?
[10:46] <superm1> ion_, have to be careful with that getent, it still got a /nonexistant in the list
[10:46] <cjwatson> ScottK: postinst fiddling won't work on systems that NFS-mount /home
[10:46] <superm1> for the nobody acct
[10:46] <cjwatson> ScottK: which is one reason no package does it
[10:46] <ion_> superm1: [ -d "$home/.gnupg" ] 
[10:47] <ScottK> cjwatson: We have the fix to create on first run.  The question is do we try and fix the upgraders who don't have it at all because of this bug.
[10:47] <superm1> oh right :)
[10:47] <ScottK> It may well be to hard and we mention it in the release notes.
[10:47] <cjwatson> ScottK: you can't do it correctly, and attempting to do it in the postinst will likely make matters worse in harder-to-find ways
[10:48] <cjwatson> ScottK: it would also be possible to create the options file on non-first run if it's missing
[10:48] <ScottK> OK.  
[10:48] <cjwatson> (I don't know enough about gpg to know whether that's sane)
[10:49] <ScottK> Having explored it here (thanks) it sounds to me like it's to important a package to take risks with.
[10:51] <geser> ScottK: older gpg used .gnupg/options as options file
[10:51] <geser> I'd need to look up if it's still supported
[10:52] <geser> it's ok for those users to not have an gpg.conf file
[10:52] <geser> ScottK: another note: the gpg-agent starts (currently) only if use-agent is set
[10:53] <ScottK> Right.  That's why the new patch sets use-agent.
[10:53] <ScottK> geser: See 61_use_agent_default patch.
[10:57] <geser> ScottK: you should add to the release notes that users who add use-agent manually need to logout and login again to be able to use it (to get one running gpg-agent)
[11:23] <ScottK> geser: That or (I think) eval agent (I'll get the exact syntax, I have it in my notes).
[11:24] <Nafallo> ssh has been a transitional package since warty :-P
[11:24] <Nafallo> time to remove it? ;-)