[12:16] <ryanakca> how can I create a sid pbuilder?
[12:16] <ryanakca> I keep on getting this error:
[12:16] <ryanakca> E: Failed getting release file http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/sid/Release
[12:16] <ryanakca> pbuilder: debootstrap failed
[12:17] <minghua> well, use a Debian repo server instead of Ubuntu one
[12:17] <ryanakca> minghua: http://pastebin.ca/609490
[12:18] <ryanakca> hey Burgundavia 
[12:18] <Burgundavia> hey ryanakca
[12:20] <minghua> ryanakca: No idea, I don't play with pbuilder often.
[12:21] <minghua> ryanakca: you may need some command line option for pbuilder when creating.
[12:46] <DarkSun88> Night.
[12:55] <TheMuso> Hey persia.
[12:55] <persia> MOrning TheMuso
[12:55] <Fujitsu> Hi persia, TheMuso.
[12:55] <TheMuso> Morning Fujitsu.
[12:56] <persia> Hey Fujitsu.  Great wording on the beryl bug :)
[12:56] <jussi01> good morning persia, Fujitsu, TheMuso
[12:57] <Fujitsu> Hi jussi01.
[12:57] <Fujitsu> persia: Heh, thanks.
[01:00] <ryanakca> minghua: okies, thanks
[01:04] <Fujitsu> Is Soyuz still being entirely useless today?
[01:04] <Fujitsu> (ie. not adding any builds?)
[01:07] <Fujitsu> persia: It'll never work.
[01:09] <persia> Fujitsu: Why not?  Perhaps if I ask enough, someone will learn.  It's just really frustrating to find that half of a transition was uploaded because a reviewer didn't understand what was explained in a bug, perhaps requiring the work be entirely redone (or instead, introducing broken packages).
[01:10] <TheMuso> I don't think we should use REVU for updating packages already in the archive either.
[01:11] <persia> TheMuso: I like it for new upstream versions, as the debdiff is typically fairly ugly, especially when the package doesn't use a patch system.
[01:11] <ryanakca> TheMuso: then what would a new guy do to contribute/have his 'update'/'fix' reviewed?
[01:12] <persia> ryanakca: For most cases, attaching a debdiff to a bug would be preferred.
[01:12] <ryanakca> persia: hmm... ok
[01:12] <TheMuso> persia: Yeah, makes sense if you don't have webspace to upload the package to./
[01:12] <TheMuso> Guess I am a little lucky in that regard.
[01:12] <ryanakca> persia: if that's the case, maybe stick it in the MOTU documentation?
[01:13] <persia> TheMuso: I also like the confirmation that the uploader is in the keyring.  Sometimes I see random pointers to webspace, and am less comfortable unless I know the person personally.
[01:13] <persia> ryanakca: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[01:13] <TheMuso> persia: Again, good point.
[01:14] <TheMuso> Thats what I have always done with new upstream packages that need sponsoring, and all of my sponsors haven't seemed to have a problem with that.
[01:14] <persia> TheMuso: I'm guessing that your sponsors tend to be people who know you reasonably well.  For new contributors, I think REVU is easier for new upstreams than personal webspace.
[01:16] <TheMuso> persia: Fair call.
[01:17] <TheMuso> Ok then, merges can wait till tomorrow. :p
[01:19] <persia> TheMuso: If you're hunting features, no reason to switch :)
[01:19] <ryanakca> hmm... for a plain text editor (simillar to nano), is it worth creating a aoeui-doc package?
[01:20] <crimsun> Nafallo: you need to try alsa-kernel hg.
[01:21] <TheMuso> crimsun: BTW, I am happy to take care of your merges if you don't want them.
[01:21] <TheMuso> And or don't have time for them.
[01:21] <crimsun> TheMuso: feel free.
[01:22] <Nafallo> crimsun: will do when I get the laptop. Dell says I will have it 20th :-)
[01:22] <Nafallo> crimsun: you might want to suggest it to the reporter so I know if I will have sound with Tribe 3 ;-)
[01:23] <persia> ryanakca: It depends on the relative size of the /usr/share in the binary partition.  If there's a lot of documentation, it's nice to split the package.  If it's small, it might be better to include it in the binary package.
[01:23] <persia> s/partition/package/
[01:24] <ryanakca> persia: hmm... well, upstream created a massive .m4 file, that splits into two manpages, and creates equivalent .txt and .html files.
[01:25] <crimsun> Nafallo: that's not under my control.  Linus must merge the fix for 2.6.22 final to ensure it, and he hasn't as of two minutes ago.
[01:25] <persia> ryanakca: My general rule of thumb is that if more than 25% is in /usr/share, it's best to have a -common or -doc package (depending on what makes that 25%).  The size of the source doesn't matter, just the size of the results.
[01:26] <ryanakca> persia: ok
[01:26] <Nafallo> crimsun: ouch :-/. we won't have the fix if Linus doesn't sync then?
[01:26] <minghua> It's REVU day again? :-)
[01:26] <persia> minghua: Yep :)
[01:29] <crimsun> Nafallo: we'll have it either way.
[01:29] <crimsun> I'm just not going to push it to the kernel team unless it _doesn'T_ make it into 2.6.22.
[01:30] <Nafallo> ah :-)
[01:30] <Nafallo> okidoki
[01:30] <Nafallo> would be nice if it worked with a tribe ;-)
[01:31] <ryanakca> is it possible to do multibinary packages with cdbs?
[01:31] <crimsun> certainly.
[01:32] <persia> ryanakca: Yes.  Just add multiple stanzas to debian/control, and include the relevant binary-package.install, etc.
[01:32] <Nafallo> gnight
[01:32] <ryanakca> hmmm... like this: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2529601 ?
[01:32] <ryanakca> night Nafallo 
[01:33] <persia> ryanakca: Yes, although typically one doesn't need quite so much in debian/rules :)
[01:34] <ryanakca> persia: okies, thanks :)
[01:34] <TheMuso> persia: Did you or geser have any luck with ardour and working out why its dying?
[01:34] <TheMuso> On the builds that is.
[01:35] <persia> TheMuso: I'm waiting for a permissions adjustment.  Last I heard, geser was hunting a build log.
[01:35] <TheMuso> Ah ok.
[01:36] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: They're off?
[01:37] <persia> Fujitsu: I don't expect it until your evening: the relevant people seem to believe in weekends :)
[01:37] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Yeah, I think cjwatson killed it with cron.daily last night. There have been no builds created since.
[01:37] <TheMuso> ah ok
[01:39] <crimsun> TheMuso: would you like to take over owneship of ubuntu-audio?
[01:39] <crimsun> ownership, even
[01:39] <Fujitsu> :(
[01:39] <TheMuso> crimsun: I don't mind.
[01:40] <TheMuso> crimsun: If you'd rather someone else take care of it, I am happy to.
[01:41] <crimsun> done. I've deactivated myself in addition.
[01:41] <TheMuso> Ok.
[01:43] <persia> Uploaders: If you upload something from REVU, please archive the REVU entry.
[01:44] <ryanakca> persia: ok. Looks like the author just ln -nf /usr/bin/aoeui /usr/bin/asdfg      , and then the app figures out if it's running it QWERTY or Dvorak. Does that still require me to create the package asdfg? 
[01:45] <ryanakca> (source creates the text editor aoeui (original, dvorak version) and then asdfg (the new, qwerty equivalent)
[01:45] <persia> ryanakca: Not at all.  A package may provide multiple binaries: just check to make sure there are no conflicts beforehand.  The only reason to provide two packages is if there was a conflict of some sort, and users would only want one of aoeui or asdfg.
[01:46] <ryanakca> persia: ok, so what would I call the package? aoeui, or asdfg?
[01:46] <persia> ryanakca: Try to use the upstream name: we want to support branding
[01:46] <ryanakca> (notice that the names are the first 5 characters from the left on the home row, on both layouts)
[01:47] <persia> ryanakca: Sure, but in this case, the upstream website is probably called aoeui, and asdfg is just an alternate binary for those with a different keyboard layout.
[01:48] <ryanakca> upstream calls the tarball aoeui, but on the webpage, it lists it as two seperate, but equivalent programs. But, asdfg depends on aoeui. I suppose I call it aoeui, and put in the control description that it provides the editor for both layouts?
[01:50] <persia> ryanakca: Right.  The tarball name is a good hint :)
[01:51] <ryanakca> ummm... do I want to install aoeui.1 and asdfg.1 if it creates aoeui.1.gz and asdfg.1.gz as well?
[01:54] <persia> ryanakca: If the package creates both, you probably want to install both (every binary needs a manpage).  If there were only one, making sure it had info for both, and linking them would be sufficient.
[01:54] <Fujitsu> persia: I think he means gzipped vs. non-gzipped.
[01:56] <ryanakca> persia: what Fujitsu said
[01:56] <ryanakca> persia: how will 'man' know if it wants the gzipped version or the non gzipped one?
[01:57] <Fujitsu> Does anybody here know of a way to make sbuild default to (a) using the gutsy chroot, and (b) building arch-all?
[01:58] <persia> Hmmm..  I don't have an opinion on that (and am not finding anything from a quick perusal of `man dh_installman`.  I seem to have only compressed manpages on my system. 
[01:58] <persia> Fujitsu: for (b), -A helps, but I don't know how to set the default.
[01:59] <Fujitsu> persia: Yep, I've been building with `-A -d gutsy' for ever, but was wondering if there was some default set somewhere.
[02:00] <persia> Fujitsu: I'm not finding good docs, but I'm guessing that doing something with ~/.sbuildrc ought to be the right solution.
[02:00] <TheMuso> Arch all by default would be nice, I must admit.
[02:00] <ryanakca> persia: ok, well, I think man will try to take the compressed one by default, and a couple more kilobytes won't hurt anybody...
[02:00] <TheMuso> c
[02:00] <TheMuso> ugh
[02:03] <persia> Found it: $main::distribution defaults to "unstable".  This can be adjusted locally, or perhaps we want a new default?
[02:05] <persia> Ah, and $main::build_arch_all=1.
[02:05] <Fujitsu> That's not in $conf::, though.
[02:05] <Fujitsu> It'd be nice if it was overrideable.
[02:07] <minghua> I think policy requires man pages to be gzipped.
[02:07] <minghua> And it's definitely not good to ship _both_ compressed and uncompressed man pages.
[02:16] <ryanakca> micahcowan: ok
[02:16] <ryanakca> micahcowan: oops sorry,
[02:16] <micahcowan> :)
[02:17] <ryanakca> minghua: ok. hmm... I'll try to figure it out, thanks :)
[02:18] <zul> hey
[02:19] <Fujitsu> Hi zul.
[02:53] <ryanakca> hmm.. how would one set up a dput server (receiving end)... google doesn't show much... I've tried sshfs, but all I get are permission denied style errors from moving the .dsc.asc to .dsc, and the .diff.gz.TA023a to .diff.gz
[02:54] <ryanakca> (I have a pbuild server, and I have my desktop (where I make the source package), and I'm trying to figure out how to transfer without having to scp it all)
[02:55] <RAOF> Man, that's a cool idea!  I can't help, but please make sure you post how to get that working :)
[02:56] <ryanakca> RAOF: I'll stick it on planet :)
[02:59] <persia> ryanakca: You could set up an rsync job on the pbuild server that grabs from a directory every few minutes (not that cp is many less characters than scp, but perhaps less authentication)
[03:00] <ryanakca> persia: authentication is set up with ssh keys... sftp... hmm...
[03:05] <ryanakca> persia: how does REVU have it set up?
[03:06] <persia> ryanakca: REVU has an anonymous-acceptable FTP server, and a cronjob that runs some scripts to process the uploads.  Note that it doesn't actually build them: so the contents of the scripts are probably not useful for your purposes.
[03:06] <Fujitsu> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29172/ is the revu script
[03:07] <ryanakca> persia: hmm.. anonymous-acceptable FTP doesn't seem to be what I want... 
[03:08] <persia> ryanakca: Perhaps.  You could just delete anything that didn't match your criteria every few minutes.
[03:08] <Fujitsu> ryanakca: The files just have to get into a directory somewhere. It doesn't matter how.
[03:09] <Fujitsu> It does scp
[03:10] <ryanakca> hmm..
[03:10] <ryanakca> would it be possible to somehow tweak sshfs?
[03:10] <Fujitsu> ryanakca: Why sshfs?
[03:10] <ryanakca> I have deb/ on my server, and I've mounted it with sshfs on my desktop... 
[03:11] <persia> ryanakca: Why would you need to tweak it?  Also, you might like configuring dput to use scp, so it does all the tricky bits for you.
[03:11] <ryanakca> Fujitsu: I have a tab in console open with a connection to the server. If sshfs works, I make the changes on my desktop, sign it (I only have my GPG key on my desktop), and then I switch to the server tab, and run pbuilder on it
[03:12] <ryanakca> persia: because of permission crazyness
[03:13] <ryanakca> persia: ls -lash .   shows it as owned by 'ryan', but I can't edit it... running chown on it all :) hmm.
[03:13] <persia> ryanakca: You want more automation: use dput to scp the files, and have the server autobuild anything received, and put it in a repo (eith apt-ftparchive).  Put the repo source and binary lines in your sources.list.
[03:16] <persia> ryanakca: For extra points, autocopy the build logs to a webserver and mail yourself a link.
[03:16] <ryanakca> persia: hehe :)
[03:17] <ryanakca> persia: for even more points, have it grep the diff file for '(num)ubuntu(num)', to see if it should use gutsy pbuilder or sid pbuilder :)
[03:18] <persia> ryanakca: Better to use the target distribution in the changelog.
[03:18] <ryanakca> *nod*
[03:20] <Fujitsu> ryanakca: The latter isn't meant to be used. /usr/bin/python is correct by policy.
[03:21] <ryanakca> Fujitsu: so, you shouldn't use env in any case for any python app, no matter the distribution?
[03:22] <Fujitsu> ryanakca: It's forbidden by Debian policy, probably for a good reason.
[03:22] <ryanakca> hmm.
[03:28] <StevenK> It's forbidden because env(1) looks up the PATH, and /usr/local/bin trumps /usr/bin.
[03:29] <Fujitsu> Hi StevenK.
[03:29] <Fujitsu> I guess that would do it.
[03:29] <StevenK> And having a dependancy on some python module doesn't mean the random /usr/local/bin/python will know about it.
[03:30] <StevenK> I have three uploads, soon to be four that have no builds.
[03:30] <Fujitsu> I think the build queuer is mourning the murdered cron.daily process.
[03:30] <StevenK> Seems like it.
[03:31] <Fujitsu> It always has to happen on weekends, doesn't it?
[03:37] <jml> Sometimes public holidays
[03:38] <persia> I think public holidays are usually exempted because they differ from country to country...
[03:44] <minghua> Is new year celebrated widely enough to be considered "everywhere"?
[03:44] <Fujitsu> I think so.
[03:57] <Burgundavia> minghua: if you speaking of the gregorian calendar, pretty much yes
[03:58] <Fujitsu> Hi Burgundavia.
[03:58] <Burgundavia> hello Fujitsu
[04:04] <Fujitsu> minghua: For I am spammy.
[04:04] <Fujitsu> Which one was it?
[04:05] <minghua> The pymol one.  Probably because of the URL in the changelog.
[04:05] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[04:24] <StevenK> Geez. It's disturbing when the rain outside can drown out the music that's playing.
[04:25] <Fujitsu> StevenK: We haven't had rain for 24 hours or so, and nothing really heavy for a couple of weeks.
[04:26] <StevenK> It hasn't rained for a few weeks, this is first drenching of July.
[04:26] <Fujitsu> Heh.
[04:27] <Fujitsu> It has been raining a fair bit daily for the past 3 or 4 weeks.
[04:27] <StevenK> Of course it has, it's Melbourne!
[04:27] <Fujitsu> True.
[04:28] <Fujitsu> Bug triage is pretty much all I do.
[04:30] <StevenK> Hrm. Fast moving storm system. We got a 15 minute drenching, and now nothing.
[04:31] <TheMuso> StevenK: heh
[04:31] <TheMuso> Twas raining this morning, and did so overnight, but nothing since about 8 or so.
[04:39] <Fujitsu> RAOF: A good idea.
[04:43] <StevenK> I would get lunch, but I can't decide what to get.
[04:45] <joejaxx> pizza :p
[04:45] <TheMuso> Unhealthy.
[04:46] <StevenK> Pfft, like I care about healthy-ness.
[04:46] <joejaxx> TheMuso: :p
[04:50] <StevenK> persia: In regards to bug 84451, I'm not sure you can get source and binaries kicked out of released versions of Ubuntu
[04:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 84451 in linuxsampler "Linuxsampler is unfree, and this is reported incorrectly" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84451
[04:51] <StevenK> "unfree" makes me chuckle, though. :-)
[04:51] <jmg> StevenK: sourceforge page says GPL
[04:53] <Fujitsu> I don't think it's possible to modify RELEASE.
[04:53] <Fujitsu> (after it is released, that is)
[04:53] <StevenK> the actual README in the upstream distribution says "This software is distributed under the GNU General Public License (see COPYING file), and may not be used in commercial applications without asking the authors for permission."
[04:53] <Fujitsu> Gah.
[04:53] <StevenK> Quoted from the bug.
[04:53] <Fujitsu> So it's GPLed, but not.
[04:54] <StevenK> Right.
[04:54] <jmg> bogus
[04:54] <joejaxx> is there a real licensevname fornthat sort of license setup?
[04:54] <StevenK> Sure. "Crackful"
[04:55] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Not strong enough.
[04:55] <joejaxx> excluding the fact that they are calling it gpl
[04:55] <StevenK> Fujitsu: :-P
[04:55] <jmg> there is a creative commons license that covers their need
[04:57] <Fujitsu> jmg: There is also a cluebat that probably covers their needs.
[04:58] <StevenK> Okay, so they re-license it correctly, it still means it get booted, or punted to multiverse. But this still means it can't get fixed for released releases.
[04:58] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Right. We're stuffed.
[04:58] <StevenK> Debian has the same issue.
[05:00] <Fujitsu> Debian's released pockets aren't absolutely frozen, are they?
[05:00] <Fujitsu> There's no etch-updates, for example.
[05:00] <minghua> Debian can just completely remove undistributable software from release IIRC.
[05:00] <Fujitsu> There hasn't been a case of an Ubuntu release pocket being modified, and it'd need some manual hackery if it were to be allowed.
[05:00] <StevenK> I don't think it kills it from everything.
[05:01] <Fujitsu> Yay.
[05:01] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Sure there has, but it's ... special. dapper -> dapper.0, and then dapper.1
[05:01] <Fujitsu> Wasn't that just a respin of ISOs including dapper-{updates,security}?
[05:02] <StevenK> Hrm. Maybe. I thought it also updated the release itself.
[05:02] <Fujitsu> No.
[05:02] <Fujitsu> Check the modified dates in dists/dapper
[05:03] <Fujitsu> So, I guess we need to talk to archive people.
[05:03] <StevenK> I think we need to subscribe ubuntu-archive to the bug, and ask for input. If they say no, we have to deal.
[05:06] <Fujitsu> Does somebody want to reject the Breezy tasks and accept the other two?
[05:06] <Fujitsu> *task
[05:07] <StevenK> Done.
[05:11] <ryanakca> hmm.. any python guru feel like helping me debug my upload-to-remote-host-and-pbuild-the-dsc script?
[05:11] <Fujitsu> ryanakca: I'm not much of a guru, but pastebin and I'll have a look.
[05:13] <ryanakca> http://pastebin.ca/609846
[05:13] <minghua> It seems Debian doesn't ship linuxsampler at all.
[05:13] <ryanakca> you'll need python-deb822
[05:13] <Fujitsu> It was removed pre-Dapper.
[05:13] <Fujitsu> And only existed for 6 months.
[05:15] <minghua> Does that mean we don't track Debian's removal?
[05:15] <persia> Regarding linuxsampler: there's been lots of discussion upstream, but some members of the upstream team are sure that the current terms are 1) legal, 2) correct, and 3) what they want.  Contrast the code with qsampler (which isn't so useful for us).
[05:15] <persia> minghua: Only manually.
[05:16] <ryanakca> Fujitsu: it's based on http://orebokech.com/tmp/dscp and my irssi + libnotify script
[05:16] <Fujitsu> minghua: We do now, but I'm not sure about pre-Soyuz.
[05:16] <Fujitsu> ryanakca: I'm semi-lunching now, but almost done.
[05:17] <minghua> Fujitsu, persia: Is it done automatically with soyuz now?
[05:17] <persia> Fujitsu: We do?  How?  Separately, how did we have so many orphans last time I checked?
[05:17] <Fujitsu> persia: They do process Debian removals every so often. Anything !main isn't touched automatically, AFAIK.
[05:18] <Fujitsu> (Debian main, not Ubuntu main)
[05:18] <persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  That makes sense.  There are a couple main-only scripts, and that would match my experience.
[05:18] <persia> Fujitsu: Are you sure?  Ubuntu main makes sense, Debian main doesn't.
[05:19] <persia> Fujitsu: I requested removals for everything crufty last week :)
[05:19] <Fujitsu> I haven't seen any removals requested recently, and that list had some packages on it earlier.
[05:20] <persia> Fujitsu: Some of the archive admins act without bugs as well, but I think it's still manual.
[05:20] <Fujitsu> It's all secret, so I doubt we'll find out why that got missed, or what we have to do to prevent it.
[05:23] <StevenK> persia: I managed to get cjwatson to process a sync sans bug yesterday.
[05:23] <persia> StevenK: sync sans?
[05:23] <StevenK> For sans, read 'without'
[05:23] <RAOF> without :)
[05:24] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Are build-deps on libcurl4-gnutls-dev OK nowadays?
[05:24] <persia> StevenK: Right.  I've had a few admins do that, but Mithrandir was noisy last time I made a request via IRC.
[05:24] <StevenK> persia: I think it was a case of asking the right person at the right time
[05:25] <ryanakca> Fujitsu: uploading it with rsync works, it's just the pbuilder part.
[05:25] <persia> StevenK: You mean, when nobody eise is watching? :)
[05:25] <Fujitsu> ryanakca: Just finishing up lunch now, I'll look in a sec.
[05:25] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Yes. libcurl4-gnutls-dev has been NBS good and hard, so it should pull in libcurl3 correctly.
[05:25] <StevenK> persia: Something like that. :-)
[05:26] <RAOF> ryanakca: Don't you need to sudo pbuilder?
[05:26] <StevenK> persia: I think it was a little of special case, since I did the upload to Debian as well.
[05:27] <persia> StevenK: Perhaps.  My previous cases fell both into ones where I made a change in Debian, and ones where I had nothing to do with it.
[05:28] <ryanakca> RAOF: not if you have it setup as the wiki once showed
[05:28] <ryanakca> RAOF: hmm... where was it.
[05:28] <Fujitsu> ryanakca: What error are you getting?
[05:29] <ryanakca> Fujitsu: none, pbuilder just doesn't start
[05:29] <ryanakca> Fujitsu: and I think I know why. I can't havi it start from my end, because pbuilder runs as root... it just hangs at the sudo prompt
[05:29] <StevenK> pbuilder might also want a controlling tty.
[05:29] <ryanakca> StevenK: hmm..
[05:29] <Fujitsu> NOPASSWD may be your friend.
[05:30] <Fujitsu> sbuild might also be your friend.
[05:30] <StevenK> Or easier, add yourself to the sudo group.
[05:30] <StevenK> (Which does the same thing as NOPASSWD, but doesn't involve learning RPN. :-)
[05:31] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Hrm?
[05:31] <Fujitsu> I don't like random never-before-heard-of people confirming bugs with no comment.
[05:31] <StevenK> Ah
[05:33] <Fujitsu> Got any idea what you're getting?
[05:34] <ryanakca> Fujitsu: hmm. I guess I can set up a cron job to check /home/ryan/incomming every 2 minutes for a new .dsc...
[05:34] <ryanakca> (it didn't work with me as part of the sudo group)
[05:35] <Fujitsu> Still hanging at the sudo prompt?
[05:37] <RAOF> tonyyarusso ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD:/usr/sbin/pbuilder,/usr/sbin/pdebuild
[05:37] <mohammad> persia: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5922 has some license issues would you please kindly review it?
[05:37] <tonyyarusso> oh yeah
[05:38] <RAOF> Argh.  ryanakca, ^^^ is something like what you want in sudoers
[05:38] <RAOF> tonyyarusso: Sorry for summoning you accidentally :)
[05:38] <tonyyarusso> 'tis okay :)
[05:38] <persia> mohammad: Sure, but why me?
[05:39] <mohammad> StottK once reviewed it and told me that you know more about license issues and I have to ask you 
[05:39] <persia> mohammad: Also, how is that related to http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5923 ?
[05:40] <mohammad> persia:
[05:40] <mohammad> persia: yes 
[05:40] <persia> mohammad: Ah.  That makes sense.  Just in case you can't find a person, you might do as well next time with something like "Could someone please review URL ?,  The last reviewer reported some license issues, and I'm stuck".
[05:41] <mohammad> persia: OK sure :)
[05:41] <mohammad> persia: thanks
[05:41] <ryanakca> RAOF: thanks
[05:41] <RAOF> ryanakca: works?
[05:42] <ryanakca> RAOF: no, but it's a start :)
[05:42] <ryanakca> RAOF: I'll poke it again in the morning, I'll probably then better then
[05:49] <persia> mohammad: Ummm..  This one's hard.  Just for starters, is it possible to copyright the text of the Quran?  Does upstream have attribution for the translations (I can't find them)?
[05:51] <ScottK> persia: I think one can copyright the arrangement if not the actual words (as one can do for databases for example).
[05:51] <minghua> Isn't Quran old enough for its copyright to expire in any part of the world?
[05:51] <persia> minghua: That's what I thought.
[05:51] <ScottK> persia: I suggested mohammad talk to you because I wasn't sure about some of the licenses that are combined in the package.
[05:51] <mohammad> then what license do you suggest?
[05:52] <mohammad> persia: ^
[05:52] <persia> ScottK: Depends on the jurisdiction.  I'm most familiar with copyright in the US and Japan, and in both cases, one can copyright an assembly only if there is at least some original content (usually a foreword), and others may reuse the non-copyrighted material as they see fit.
[05:52] <ScottK> Right.
[05:52] <ScottK> It looked like a package that needed your touch.
[05:54] <persia> mohammad: I'm fairly sure that the Quran itself is public domain, and does not require a license.  The translations & transliterations may carry copyright: I'd suggest the authors contribute to PubDom to support promulgation.  The application (and translated strings for the application) does well under a normal software license.  I'm hunting now for some published opinions regarding Apache, Eclipse, and GPL.
[05:55] <minghua> Sounds a really complicated licensing situation...
[05:55] <ScottK> It is.  That's why I thought of persia.  He seems to revel in this stuff.
[05:56] <persia> minghua: It's not that different than the sword packages, really.
[05:59] <persia> If any contributor familiar with ext2 wants an easy bug to turn into a sync request, bug 124839 is a good target (needs a bit of testing and a description cleanup).
[05:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124839 in e2fsprogs "Request Freeze Exception for E2fsprogs 1.40.1" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124839
[06:00] <Fujitsu> StevenK: What've you found to ingest?
[06:00] <StevenK> Pizza
[06:00] <Fujitsu> Aw :(
[06:00] <Fujitsu> Boring.
[06:00] <persia> Fujitsu: DebianImportFreeze
[06:00] <StevenK> Feel free to come up here and cook me something more interesting, then. :-P
[06:00] <ScottK> persia: You say that like it's a bad thing.
[06:01] <persia> ScottK: See the backlog
[06:01] <Fujitsu> persia: Ah. I don't really know why it's called a freeze.
[06:01] <persia> StevenK: it's a bit of a swim :)
[06:01] <StevenK> Spoken like a true father of small children.
[06:01] <StevenK> persia: I was talking to Fujitsu. :-)
[06:01] <therealnanotube>  could someone please tell me about ubuntu package versioning conventions. e.g, if i have something with Version: "4.19-1ubuntu2.1", i understand that 4.19 is the actual software version, but what's the 1ubuntu2.1 stand for?
[06:01] <therealnanotube>  i want to package my software into an ubuntu deb, and i want to know how the versioning stuff goes...
[06:01] <therealnanotube>  i hope this is a good place to ask... :)
[06:02] <therealnanotube> in fact, i was told on ubuntu-devel that this is the right place. :)
[06:02] <Fujitsu> 1 is the Debian version, 2 is the Ubuntu version, and the .1 means a security or bugfix update post-release.
[06:02] <ScottK> therealnanotube: This is a good place to ask, but we're really busy with off topic banter at the moment.
[06:02] <therealnanotube> heh
[06:02] <therealnanotube> so, if it doesn't have a debian version... is it a 0ubuntu1?
[06:02] <ScottK> Right
[06:02] <tonyyarusso> correct
[06:03] <therealnanotube> cool. :) thanks for the help. :)
[06:03] <StevenK> That's about as good as "how am I supposed to hallucinate with all these swirling colours around."
[06:03] <therealnanotube> in case anyone is curious, i'm planning on putting ubuntuzilla (http://pykeylogger.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Ubuntuzilla) into a .deb for ease of use. 
[06:04] <Fujitsu> Argh, please, no.
[06:07] <persia> mohammad: I've just checked with sword, and they typically use separate packages for text and software.  The text is PubDoc (e.g. http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/s/sword-text-tagalog/sword-text-tagalog_1.1-0ubuntu1/copyright), whereas the software is something else (e.g. http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/g/gnomesword/gnomesword_2.2.3-1build1/copyright).
[06:07] <persia> s/PubDoc/PubDom/
[06:07] <therealnanotube> ok, thanks everyone, i'm off to try to build my first .deb :)
[06:07] <crimsun> therealnanotube: it would be a Very Good Idea to at least run the idea past asac, who maintains the Mozilla components.
[06:08] <therealnanotube> crimsun: hm, well, at this point, i wasn't even planning on getting it included in universe or anything... though i suppose talking with someone who knows what he's doing is never a bad idea. :)
[06:08] <ScottK> To get a new package from Debian at this point (it just made it out of Debian NEW), I just file a sync bug, right?
[06:08] <crimsun> therealnanotube: not to mention you will likely want to check the ubuntu-mozillateam's resources (IRC channel, mailing list, etc.)
[06:09] <persia> ScottK: Right.  It helps the admins make a decision id you can point at a cool new feature or something in the bug report.
[06:09] <mohammad> persia: Does a package which is under pubdoman license go to universe repository?
[06:09] <Fujitsu> Archive admins shouldn't contest syncs at this point just because there's no really good reason.
[06:09] <therealnanotube> crimsun: well, all ubuntuzilla really does is install the mozilla-builds of ff, tb, and sm, without touching the repositories versions. so it's really kind of unrelated to the mozillateam. but again, probably wouldn't hurt to talk with them anyway. :)
[06:10] <ScottK> Right.  Someone wanted evolution-python and I rejected their needs-packaging bug because it was in Debian NEW already.
[06:10] <ScottK> Thanks.
[06:10] <ScottK> mohammad: Yes, but public domain doesn't need a license as it's not copyrighted.
[06:10] <minghua> I think that depends on whether the sync is a new upstream release or just new Debian revision.
[06:10] <ScottK> It's a new package
[06:10] <RAOF> Oooh.  That means that conduit should be packaged soon :)
[06:11] <Fujitsu> minghua: We've not passed UVF or NPFU, so that's irrelevant.
[06:11] <persia> minghua: Not yet - that doesn't matter until UVF.  At this point, it just needs someone to say it's good.
[06:11] <crimsun> therealnanotube: the distinction that you seem to be missing is that if users file bugs on the firefox package using Launchpad but are in fact using non-Ubuntu packages, that's something very touchy.  You _definitely_ want to coordinate with the ubuntu-mozillateam in that regard.
[06:11] <ScottK> RAOF: Right.  That's what someone said they wanted it for.
[06:11] <persia> Fujitsu: Does NPFU == FF?
[06:11] <mohammad> So I guess it is ok if I do not break software and Quran text to 2 separate packages ScottK Am I right?
[06:11] <Fujitsu> persia: It was renamed from FF mid-Feisty.
[06:11] <minghua> Fujitsu, persia: Okay.  I stand corrected.
[06:12] <RAOF> ScottK: Well, there's a nice ITP for conduit on WNPP :)
[06:12] <therealnanotube> crimsun: aha, i see. thanks for pointing that out, then. :) 
[06:12] <ScottK> mohammad: If it's public domain, yes.  
[06:12] <therealnanotube> crimsun: i suppose their irc channel is ubuntu-mozillateam ?
[06:13] <crimsun> therealnanotube: IIRC, yes.
[06:13] <therealnanotube> crimsun: cool. thanks for your helpful tips. :)
[06:13] <crimsun> np.
[06:13] <ScottK> mohammad: You still need to figure out about mixing GPL, Apache, and Ecplise licensed stuff in the same package. I hope persia will have a recommendation for you.
[06:14] <persia> mohammad: It's OK to have one package: it just needs lots more documentation.  Also, having separate packages may be interesting if anyone else wanted to implement a different Quran study tool (say for GNOME or KDE, rather than Jana).
[06:14] <persia> s/Jana/Java
[06:15] <mohammad> ScottK: I know that zekr has permission from the authors of some of the translations to use their translation in package zekr
[06:15] <mohammad> "Free for non commercial use only. makarem.zip and kuliev.zip are authorized translations by the authors."
[06:15] <Fujitsu> Ouch.
[06:15] <Burgundavia> ok, that is non-free
[06:15] <persia> mohammad: Ah.  That's not a free license (discriminates by field of endeavour).  That would have to be multiverse.
[06:15] <ScottK> Unfortunately free for non-commercial use doesn't really qualify as free under the Ubuntu rules.
[06:15] <StevenK> Muahahaha. That's a brillant quote. "all of you that believe in telekinetics, raise my hand!"
[06:15] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Um, unfortunately?
[06:15] <mohammad> ScottK: If zekr uses them, would you please let me know whether zekr will go to universe or multiverse?
[06:15] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Heh.
[06:16] <Fujitsu> mohammad: If it can't run without them, it'll be in multiverse.
[06:16] <ScottK> Fujitsu: Unfortunately for getting his package in Universe.
[06:16] <persia> mohammad: With that text, it needs to be multiverse.  I'd still recommend a package split: zekr could be free software with different translations, and the original text is surely free.
[06:17] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Ah, I guess so.
[06:17] <mohammad> persia: OK I think I it is better to split it then.
[06:18] <persia> mohammad: Also, someone might want to talk to the authors of the translations.  I seem to remember some directive about teaching from the Quran to all, and "for non-commercial use only" seems to be in a different spirit.
[06:19] <jsgotangco> hey Burgundavia long time no see
[06:20] <Burgundavia> hey jsgotangco
[06:24] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Which timezone are you in?
[06:25] <crimsun> he's EDT (same as me; we're about 20 minutes from each other)
[06:25] <ScottK> -0400
[06:26] <Burgundavia> crimsun: where are you headed that you will not have easy internet access?
[06:26] <mohammad> persia: yes I think the spirit is as you said and some people do not agree to set a non-free license for the Quran Translations, but what we do? :) I think those translations are publishing in some countries and we have to ask for the authors' permissions.
[06:26] <crimsun> Burgundavia: I'll be posted internationally.
[06:26] <Burgundavia> mohammad: you could get new translations
[06:27] <Burgundavia> crimsun: ahh
[06:27] <mohammad> but we do> but what can we do
[06:27] <persia> mohammad: As a final note, mixing Apache and GPL is OK (at least for Apache 2.0), but you can't also mix Eclipse, as it has patent restrictions.  On the other hand, you can mix Apache 2.0 and Eclipse safely.
[06:28] <ScottK> Good night all.
[06:28] <persia> mohammad: I'd get in touch with a local teacher - they can probably point you at some free translations.  Also, if you're relationship with upstream is strong enough, perhaps the zekr community can reach internationally for translations.
[06:28] <ScottK> mohammad: This is difficult work, but it is very important to get it right.
[06:29] <persia> mohammad: At least in the case of sword, it looks like different people all over the world found some local free text and uploaded it (that's why theres ~15 different sword-text packages).
[06:30] <persia> mohammad: Depending on where you are, groups like http://www.daralislam.org/about/ might also be willing to help.
[06:31] <RAOF> Bah. When is specto going to hit debian?  How long does a package usually sit in the new queue for?
[06:31] <mohammad> persia: we have a lots of translatoins for Quran http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5923 . but I am not sure about their license, just people in the community found them and sent them to us
[06:31] <persia> RAOF: Between 1 week and 1 year, depending on interest and available time :)
[06:31] <mohammad> persia: thank you
[06:32] <RAOF> persia: :).  Ah, of course!  It's not automatic.
[06:32] <persia> mohammad: It's just legwork then :)  You need to contact the people who submitted them to make sure they meet the DFSG (http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines)
[06:33] <persia> mohammad: Points 1, 5, 6, and 7 are probably most important for this type of text (as it's not really source code).
[06:35] <minghua> persia: I heard GPL v2 is not compatible with Apache license?
[06:35] <Fujitsu> minghua: That's a contentious topic.
[06:35] <Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
[06:36] <persia> minghua: Right.  Grr..   FSF has already updated their page for GPLv3.  I need to read more carefully.
[06:37] <persia> Still, because of the Eclipse code, even GPLv3 isn't a good choice for zekr.
[06:37] <mohammad> persia: I am naive in license issues. if we cannot mix GPL, eclipse and appache then, what can we do? which license should be announced in debian/copyright for zekr?
[06:37] <Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu 
[06:38] <TheMuso> Its a Hobbsee!
[06:38] <persia> mohammad: It depends on how much control you have over the code.  If you have none, you want multiple packages, with appropriate dependencies to split the licenses.
[06:38] <persia> If you can, you probably want to relicense the code to be Eclipse or Apache.
[06:38] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: it is!
[06:41] <mohammad> persia: So then the person who should agree is zekr developer. I think I can persuade him to set license as Apache for this release
[06:41] <persia> mohammad: Right.  Best of luck.
[06:42] <mohammad> thank you persia
[06:42] <mohammad> Thank you all for your help
[06:42] <mohammad> see you then
[06:47] <LucidFox> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5927 <-- what's NMU?
[06:48] <persia> LucidFox: "Non-Maintainer Upload".  This is important for Debian, where each package has an assigned maintainer, but not for us.
[06:48] <LucidFox> so those Lintian warnings related to NMU can be ignored?
[06:49] <RAOF> Yup
[06:49] <persia> LucidFox: Right.  You can ignore lintian warnings about 1) NMU, 2) unknown distribition (as long as it's "gutsy"), and 3) Bad version (as long as it's X.Y.Z-NubuntuV
[06:49] <persia> )
[06:49] <LucidFox> ok
[06:50] <minghua> It would be nice if we can just upgrade REVU's lintian.
[06:51] <persia> LucidFox: On the other hand, you do want to reupload to match the newer standards version :)
[06:51] <LucidFox> well, I wasn't the one who uploaded it
[06:52] <persia> LucidFox: Ah.  Sorry - identity is hard to match between REVU and IRC.
[06:52] <LucidFox> heh
[06:53] <LucidFox> debian/changelog for this package has feisty as the latest entry's distribution - I guess it's wrong?
[06:55] <minghua> LucidFox: Yes, it's wrong.  Should be gutsy.
[07:05] <persia> TheMuso: I thought that was configurable by user preference.  Is it not?
[07:05] <TheMuso> persia: I don't know.
[07:09] <persia> TheMuso: If it is, I can't find it.  Given your experience, perhaps it is server-wide.
[07:28] <TheMuso> Does anybody know if Vassilis Pandis frequents IRC?
[07:28] <jmg> does he have an ircname listed?
[07:29] <TheMuso> Ah forgot to check that, now if I only knew his lp name.
[07:29] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/~pandisv
[07:29] <Hobbsee> try googling "launchpad Vassilis Pandis"
[07:29] <ajmitch> or without launchpad, it's the 2nd hit
[07:29] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Thanks.
[07:30] <StevenK> IRC:  neutrinomass  on network irc.freenode.net
[07:30] <TheMuso> Ok, not online currently.
[07:30] <TheMuso> Thanks folks.
[07:30] <TheMuso> .c
[07:30] <TheMuso> ugh
[07:30] <TheMuso> typing
[08:08] <imbrandon> moins all
[08:08] <Hobbsee> hi imbrandon 
[08:08] <imbrandon> heya gurl, hows it going
[08:08] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: i'm waiting on someone who can poke soyuz to wake up.
[08:09] <imbrandon> hehe
[08:09] <imbrandon> fun fun
[08:09] <Hobbsee> of course, i could call one of them.  but i'm not sure he'd appreciate it
[08:09] <imbrandon> anyone poked libmapi from the openchange project yet that anyone knows about ?
[08:10] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, prob not
[08:12] <TheMuso> Heya imbrandon.
[08:12] <TheMuso> Long time no see.
[08:12] <superm1> hey imbrandon 
[08:12] <imbrandon> lo guys
[08:12] <superm1> imbrandon, any words on the comm. buildds from this weekend?
[08:13] <imbrandon> not right now, i have some hardware issues to resolve
[08:13] <imbrandon> as in aurora is sitting in my bedroom dead , heh
[08:15] <ajmitch> hi imbrandon :)
[08:16] <imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
[08:16] <StevenK> imbrandon: Hey. How did aurora die?
[08:17] <imbrandon> StevenK, not sure, thats why i finaly unracked it, i thoutght it was heat but it dosent seem to be, just shuts its self down ( cleanly i might add ) every few hours
[08:17] <imbrandon> havent had alot of time to look more into it
[08:17] <imbrandon> but that bad part is its not rebooting , its shutting down
[08:18] <TheMuso> Heh. Crontab? :p
[08:18] <imbrandon> looked :)
[08:19] <StevenK> acpid?
[08:20] <imbrandon> not sure
[08:20] <persia> dust in the power switch assembly?
[08:20] <StevenK> If it's recent, power switches are soft.
[08:20] <imbrandon> yea its a new case
[08:21] <Fujitsu> StevenK: That might have been true a few years ago, but nowadays it is soft unless it's positively ancient.
[08:21] <persia> Even "soft" powerswitches can send unexpected acpi events.
[08:21] <persia> also, "hard" powerswitches wouldn't shut down cleanly.
[08:25] <StevenK> Fujitsu: You're not qualified to talk about ancient hardware. :-P
[08:26] <Fujitsu> True.
[08:26] <imbrandon> hahahah
[08:27] <RAOF> TheMuso: Bah!  They even had a PCI bus!  No where near ancient :P
[08:28] <imbrandon> heh
[08:28] <Fujitsu> My oldest new machine was a Cyrix running at 40MHz, with ~8MiB RAM.
[08:28] <StevenK> Any external buses?
[08:28] <TheMuso> RAOF: Heh.
[08:28] <superm1> imbrandon, anything in /var/log/syslog regarding the shutdown (overheat etc)?
[08:29] <TheMuso> RAOF: One thing I do know however, was that the upgrade was done bodgily, with the mobo not being replaced when we got the machine upgraded to a pentium chip.
[08:30] <TheMuso> It worked, but the mobo was the biggest bottleneck.
[08:30] <imbrandon> my fist computer that was /mine/ had a 6502 in it
[08:30] <superm1> I know my thinkpad was complaining to me when I would start doing compiles on a very dusty CPU fan.  I'd kick a compile off at midnight, look the next morning and the laptop was off.  Saw in syslog that it cleanly shut down from getting too close to overheating.  Blew the fan out, and hasn't happened again
[08:30] <imbrandon> ( c64 )
[08:30] <StevenK> persia: Surely a TRS-80 counts, being of the same era.
[08:31] <RAOF> TheMuso: Oooh, so it probably didn't have a pci bus then.  I remeber those "stick a pentium in your 486 motherboard" things
[08:31] <persia> StevenK: Yep.  (Was that TI-49AA?)
[08:32] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yes, it did have a PCI bus, with about 2/3 PCI slots, one of which was a PCI/ISA shared slot. The PCI and ISA slots were also the same colour.
[08:32] <StevenK> persia: I was ... like seven. I can't recall. :-)
[08:32] <TheMuso> And the best the IDE bus could run at was DMA.
[08:32] <RAOF> TheMuso: Oh, so at least it was a modern 486 motherboard :)
[08:32] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yes.
[08:32] <persia> StevenK: Ah.  You've come late to your ability to remember technical details then.  How sweet :)
[08:33] <StevenK> TheMuso: That last sentence doesn't make sense.
[08:33] <TheMuso> StevenK: I know, but thats what Linux reported with an ATA66 drive plugged into the IDE bus.
[08:34] <StevenK> persia: The defintion for modern changes constantly.
[08:35] <persia> StevenK: That would invalidate postmodernism :)
[08:35] <StevenK> Hahaha
[08:35] <StevenK> "Its major draw back was the massive RF interference it caused in surrounding electronics which was never solved and was a violation of FCC regulations." -- TRS-80 wikipedia page.
[08:36] <StevenK> Oh, the memories
[08:36] <RAOF> wicked
[08:37] <Fujitsu> Is Soyuz also not sending notifications to gutsy-changes, or is it something at my end?
[08:38] <StevenK> Hrm. My TRS-80 is looooooooong dead.
[08:38] <RAOF> TheMuso: Why not?  I picked up the incorrect gst-plugins-farsight sync that way
[08:38] <Fujitsu> We've got one working C64, and one dead one.
[08:38] <TheMuso> RAOF: ah ok.
[08:39] <TheMuso> Must be high traffic though.
[08:39] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: It's not too bad, particularly when Soyuz gets annoyed and stops sending notifications.
[08:39] <TheMuso> heh
[08:39] <RAOF> Eh, I use the rss feed :)
[08:40] <TheMuso> Ah.
[08:42] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, this would be perfecty for your "dead" c64 + slimline dvd http://www.mini-itx.com/reviews/pico-itx/  
[08:42] <imbrandon> :)
[08:42] <Fujitsu> Oh no, I think I know what that is.
[08:42] <Fujitsu> Haha.
[08:42] <Fujitsu> That'd be great.
[08:43] <Fujitsu> How can that make it that small!?
[08:43] <imbrandon> someon did one with a larger versionof the MB before those came out
[08:43] <imbrandon> http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/c64/
[08:43] <imbrandon> pico-itx boards are nice
[08:43] <nixternal> wo0t
[08:44] <nixternal> shoot, quit showing mini-itx stuff man!
[08:44] <nixternal> I am so tempted to buy one. for what I have no idea
[08:44] <imbrandon> nixternal, see the pico ?
[08:45] <nixternal> many times :) and I just looked again :)
[08:45] <DarkMageZ> if you find a computer that you want, but can't actually justify. just think of bonic.
[08:45] <nixternal> haha
[08:46] <DarkMageZ> it's how i'm going to justify one of those openmoko phones..
[08:48] <nixternal> ooh, I would like about 50 of those pico-itx rigs
[08:48] <nixternal> server farm in a shoebox!
[08:48] <nixternal> DarkMageZ: I have already justified the openmoko phone
[08:51] <nixternal> hrmm, #debian-mentors on OFTC has a bot (MentorSeeker) that notices the channel when someone uploades to m.d.n...that's kind of nice actually
[08:57] <persia> StevenK: I encountered http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29189/ whilst reviewing.  I don't know if it's something special about the target file (on REVU), but I thought you might be interested, as the reverse is more common.
[08:59] <StevenK> The reverse, as in, Linda giving errors?
[08:59] <persia> StevenK: The reverse as in lintian taking a while, and linda being fast
[08:59] <StevenK> Ah
[09:00] <StevenK> Feature? :-)
[09:00] <persia> StevenK: Doesn't really matter - it's only 30 seconds, but I thought there might be something special about the subject file, such that you might want to take it as part of your private performance test suite :)
[09:59] <SeaGateIsNot> could anyone help me with a xserver problem, I'm running ubuntu 7.04, and a Radeon X300 Series via VGA, the problem occurred when i installed beryl, i already tried reconfiguring X, and no success, any suggestions? 
[10:01] <DarkMageZ> SeaGateIsNot, this is not the appropriate channel. Please try #ubuntu-effects
[10:01] <SeaGateIsNot> ugh
[10:01] <persia> SeaGateIsNot: You'll probably get better support somewhere else (#ubuntu might work).  X is in main, so we don't really have deep familiarity.
[10:01] <SeaGateIsNot> #ubuntu has 1000+...thats the problem..you can never get anything answereed
[10:02] <persia> SeaGateIsNot: Try #ubuntu-effects, as recommended by DarkMageZ
[10:02] <persia> (which reminds me, I should be reading a debdiff...)
[10:02] <SeaGateIsNot> I am.
[10:25] <jussi01> Morning everyone
[10:25] <persia> DarkMageZ: My apologies for the delay.  That was a lot smaller than it looked.  It appears that the Spanish translations are now disabled.  Am I missing something?
[10:27] <DarkMageZ> oh. good finding. i had forgotten that hack.
[10:28] <DarkMageZ> i had to disable the po directory from the makefile as it caused problems with the new autotools.
[10:29] <persia> DarkMageZ: If you can get them back it, it'd be great (Ubuntu has a fairly large Spanish-speaking community).  Based on the changelog, you might have to either try with a few different versions of automake, or modify the input files to match the newer versions.
[10:31] <DarkMageZ> i'll give it a shot
[10:31] <persia> DarkMageZ: Thanks.  ping me if you get it working, and I'd be glad to upload.
[10:35] <DarkMageZ> persia, if you remove debian/patches/05_remove_po does that make the spanish work? it appears to build properly without that patch. but i don't know how to test language stuff.
[10:35] <DarkMageZ> ick, scratch that.
[10:35] <persia> DarkMageZ: Ah.  Good.  Spanish isn't one of the locales I have enabled :)
[10:37] <persia> DarkMageZ: More generally, the easiest way to test a translation is to start the application in the selected locale (I'd suggest es_AR for this), and check the language of the menus, etc.
[10:39] <DarkMageZ> where does libvisual-plugins actually output text?
[10:40] <persia> DarkMageZ: Looking briefly at the content of po/es_ES.po, I'd suggest the properties panels for the plugins.
[10:42] <jussi01> gah... I hate my computer overheating...
[10:55] <dholbach> good morning
[10:55] <persia> dholbach: Good day.
[10:55] <dholbach> hiya persia
[12:02] <TheMuso> Evening RAOF.
[12:03] <RAOF> Evening TheMuso.  Now that I've checked how well nouveau works (it doesnt, at the moment), it's time to make some minestrone!
[12:04] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yum. What do you do it in?
[12:04] <RAOF> A saucepan?
[12:04] <TheMuso> Ok, its just that my folks do it in the crock pot.
[12:05] <RAOF> Aaah.  No, I don't have a crock pot
[12:06] <TheMuso> Fair enough then.
[12:10] <TheMuso> RAOF: Nevertheless, its a yummy, and filling soup.
[12:11] <RAOF> It is indeed
[12:12] <RAOF> Mmmm, full of beany goodness.  And proscuito.
[12:12] <TheMuso> Yup.
[12:12] <TheMuso> Another favourite of mine is pea and ham soup.
[12:13] <RAOF> Mmmmm.
[12:15] <RAOF> We recently made some pumpkin soup out of leftover stock from some beef masaman we made.  Mmmmm.
[12:15] <TheMuso> Sounds nice.
[12:16] <imbrandon> yall makin me want some food
[12:16] <imbrandon> lol
[12:16] <TheMuso> heh
[12:16] <porthose> yum yum;)
[12:17] <imbrandon> pizza sounds good tonight
[12:22] <DarkMageZ> persia, my autotools foo fails short of being able to fix this. http://pastebin.ca/610211 (this is with 05_remove_po removed)
[12:24] <persia> DarkMageZ: It looks like @MKINSTALLDIRS@ isn't being expanded for some reason.  I'm about to cook, but I'll take a deeper look at it afterwards (if nobody else finds a solution first).
[12:26] <DarkMageZ> sweet. thanks.
[01:24] <imbrandon> !releaseschedule
[01:24] <imbrandon> hrm
[01:25] <jussi01> the bot is dead...
[01:25] <imbrandon> i see 
[01:25] <Fujitsu> It got eaten by a netsplit several hours ago.
[01:25] <jussi01> :)
[01:26] <imbrandon> no problem i was just lazy, i got it now
[01:26] <imbrandon> ;)
[01:26] <imbrandon> i just needed to check how much longer i had to prepare xrdp
[01:26] <imbrandon> heh
[01:27] <StevenK> Hungry netsplit, it seems.
[01:27] <StevenK> Maybe it ate Soyuz, too.
[01:32] <minghua> Fujitsu: Did you see LaserJock's blog post?  What do you think of the Science/TeX work?
[01:35] <Fujitsu> minghua: I haven't checked planet in several days.
[01:39] <Fujitsu> Ah, how unfortunate.
[01:39] <Fujitsu> Everyone's retiring nowadays :(
[01:40] <Fujitsu> minghua: What about science/TeX?
[01:41] <minghua> Fujitsu: I was wondering who is going to lead the science team.
[01:41] <minghua> Fujitsu: It seems you are the most active MOTU on the science front now.
[01:41] <Fujitsu> Well, I guess so.
[01:41] <minghua> I haven't ask LaserJock yet, maybe he can still do the administrative work.
[01:42] <Fujitsu> I'm fine with taking that over if necessary.
[01:42] <minghua> I was just going to write an email to -science list, asking for more participation.
[01:42] <minghua> I saw that quite a few people applied for -science team, no one has been approved in recent months though.
[01:43] <Fujitsu> minghua: Are you an admin?
[01:43] <minghua> I have the approval right (do you?), but the problem is I don't know most of them.
[01:43] <minghua> Fujitsu: Yes, I am.
[01:43] <Fujitsu> Looks like all MOTU members are.
[01:43] <Fujitsu> I don't know any of them either :(
[01:44] <Fujitsu> I think i've heard of a couple.
[01:44] <minghua> I usually don't do REVU work, but I'm willing to review science related packages if the hopefuls ask on list.
[01:44] <Fujitsu> I haven't touched REVU in many months.
[01:45] <minghua> Actually I know one of them, the one asked about "Science Edition" on list.
[01:45] <ScottK> Good morning all.
[01:45] <Fujitsu> mok0 looks good.
[01:45] <ScottK> StevenK: My first computer was a TRS-80 too.
[01:45] <Fujitsu> Hi ScottK.
[01:45] <ScottK> Hi.
[01:45] <minghua> I think I need to talk with LaserJock about this.  Fujitsu, do you want to be involved in the conversation (if I can't catch him on IRC, it's going to be private mail)?
[01:46] <ScottK> Fujitsu: I agree about mok0.
[01:46] <minghua> Morning ScottK.
[01:46] <Fujitsu> minghua: I don't really mind.
[01:46] <ScottK> Good morning minghua
[01:47] <TheMuso> Hey ScottK.
[01:47] <ScottK> Hi TheMuso.
[01:53] <Fujitsu> minghua: Any objections to me approving mok0?
[01:54] <minghua> Fujitsu: No objection.  He is good.
[01:54] <persia> DarkMageZ: Great to hear it.  Thanks.
[02:12] <Fujitsu> StevenK: What's it doing now? Not building?
[02:12] <StevenK> Yup.
[02:13] <ScottK> Speaking of not building, how much RAM do the buildd's have?
[02:13] <Fujitsu> Nice, nice.
[02:13] <ScottK> The good news with apt is the unlike OOO you don't have to wait 27 hours to find out it won't build.
[02:14] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Heheh, true.
[02:15] <Fujitsu> I would have thought they'd have at least 1GiB.
[02:15] <zul> i think they might have more than 1GB
[02:16] <ScottK> One of the bug comments mentions (this is on S390) the build died with it hit a 2GB limit.  Not sure how much more than 1 GB is needed.
[02:18] <minghua> According to package description it's just C.
[02:18] <ScottK> minghua: Dunno.  Just reading the discussion in Debian Bug #431197.
[02:19] <persia> minghua: Perhaps it has a really complex nested structure namespace, or some other interesting compiler tricks built in?
[02:21] <minghua> persia: I don't know.  The bug reports doesn't say anything on this respect.
[02:21] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: I haven't seen a join message from you in ... a long time.
[02:22] <Fujitsu> !info pypy
[02:22] <minghua> s/respect/aspect/
[02:22] <Fujitsu> Hm, that's not going to work.
[02:22] <minghua> heh
[02:22] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: probably because freenode split & never rejoined the parts
[02:22] <ajmitch> usually it's because DSL drops out here
[02:22] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Yep. It's nice like that.
[02:23] <StevenK> I've noticed that a few times before. I'll screen back to IRC and see that it's me and 2 other people in -devel.
[02:24] <Fujitsu> I haven't been in the minority of a split in months.
[02:24] <StevenK> At which point the first thing that pops back into my head is, "Was it something I said?", but I haven't said anything.
[02:26] <StevenK> I trusted the round-robin chat.f.n until 3 out of the 7 addresses were giving connection refused and I didn't know how to tell irssi to flush its DNS cache.
[02:49] <KnowledgEngineer> someone use lisp and asdf-install ?
[02:50] <KnowledgEngineer> or lisp and cl-sdl-opengl 
[02:53] <KnowledgEngineer> someone use lisp and asdf-install ?
[02:53] <KnowledgEngineer> or lisp and cl-sdl-opengl 
[02:53] <KnowledgEngineer> ?
[02:54] <ScottK> KnowledgEngineer: Support is in #ubuntu.  There are a lot more people there.  You might have more luck.
[03:02] <xxxxx1> good morning people
[03:03] <minghua> man-di_: What is the reason against?
[03:04] <minghua> Does anyone know if the python-minimal package alone can run a hello world program?
[03:04] <RAOF> How small a hello world?
[03:05] <man-di_> minghua: what will be better when I'm a MOTU?
[03:05] <minghua> man-di_: Direct upload for packages you care, that's what is most important to me.
[03:05] <zul> you can upload to universe without needing a sponsor
[03:06] <man-di_> minghua: I can wait for ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[03:06] <Fujitsu> win 12
[03:06] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[03:06] <RAOF> minghua: Unless your hello world uses some not-very-hello worldish modules, the answer should be "yes"
[03:06] <minghua> man-di_: Reducing their reviewing work then? ;-)
[03:10] <man-di_> TheMuso: I'm Debian Developer and I sponsor some people for Debian, I know what you mean
[03:10] <persia> man-di_: A better question is perhaps "Do you want to be a MOTU?"  Why?  If there's a good reason (for you), that's your answer.
[03:10] <man-di_> persia: I currently think the only reason would be direct uploads, and that is not much reason
[03:11] <minghua> man-di_: In that case maybe not.
[03:11] <persia> man-di_: There you go then.  Wait.  You'll find a good reason :)
[03:11] <ScottK> One other side benifit is that you can post unmoderated on ubuntu-devel.
[03:11] <minghua> For example, the Debian TeXlive maintainer didn't become a MOTU, he just subscribed package bugmails and reply them.
[03:11] <man-di_> ScottK: i have never read a bit of ubuntu-devel, why should I post there?
[03:12] <man-di_> minghua: thats what I currently do as Debian Java Maintainer too
[03:12] <ScottK> Dunno.  It's really only relevant for Ubuntu specific stuff.  Since I don't know how involved you are in Ubuntu, I don't know if you should or not.
[03:12] <minghua> man-di_: Do you run Ubuntu anywhere?
[03:13] <man-di_> ScottK: currently I only want to improve java packages
[03:13] <man-di_> minghua: yes
[03:13] <ScottK> Topic of the day is should Launchpad grow an ability to forward bugs to Debian BTS.
[03:13] <ScottK> man-di_: In that case you probably don't care.
[03:13] <persia> I thought that was discussed in debian-devel a couple years ago, with a clear NO as the result.
[03:13] <Fujitsu> ScottK: It's growing the ability to forward to arbitrary email addresses in 1.1.8
[03:13] <man-di_> ScottK: hmmm, I would have an opinion on that (launchpad => bts)
[03:14] <minghua> man-di_: Better than I.  I only have a gutsy pbuilder and a rarely-logged-in dapper install now. :-(
[03:14] <ScottK> persia: A big part of the question is how much advance discussion with Debian is needed.
[03:15] <man-di_> ScottK: its also some groups in debian want discussion, others dont
[03:15] <ScottK> Yep.  
[03:15] <broonie> man-di_: Well, it's more that some groups in Debian want nothing to do with Ubuntu..
[03:15] <man-di_> ScottK: I would welcome all input I can get from Ubuntu and other distros
[03:15] <man-di_> broonie: unfortunately
[03:15] <man-di_> broonie: hu?
[03:15] <persia> Hrm.  Debian is separate, and separately good.  Spamming their bugtracker with our mistakes doesn't seem like good community practice: I know many Debian maintainers who voluntarily use launchpad, but I think it should be by choice.
[03:16] <ScottK> OTOH, you might get a little tired of Ubuntu unique stuff getting reported in Debian.
[03:16] <man-di_> broonie: hello my first debian sponsor
[03:16] <broonie> :)
[03:17] <ScottK> You can get a feel for the discussion here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-July/023895.html
[03:17] <man-di_> ScottK: thats right, for cases where people want to have packages in sync its good to forward, otherwise its probably not a good idea to blindly forward
[03:18] <ScottK> And joe end-user really has no idea if it should be forwarded or not.
[03:18] <man-di_> ScottK: right
[03:19] <StevenK> For me, s/that.*//
[03:20] <ScottK> From my POV it's the difference between downstream whining and downstream contributing.
[03:20] <ScottK> They aren't talking about automatic.
[03:21] <ScottK> Just manual by anyone with an LP account (which is about the same level of badness in my view).
[03:21] <minghua> ScottK: Sorry, my falt.  s/automatic/random LP user's/
[03:21] <persia> I'd agree with Ian: it's a *Debian* decision.  Having LP provide an interface that would allow individual DDs to sign up makes sense, but blindly forwarding may annoy both the DDs who like Ubuntu and those that don't.
[03:21] <Hobbsee> ScottK: no, in -qa.
[03:21] <Hobbsee> persia: true that
[03:22] <ScottK> Hobbsee: OK.  I missed that in the discussion.  That helps a little.
[03:23] <persia> Even for -qa, it's not that hard to copy & paste a nice email to the BTS, and then link them once you get the reply.  It also means that the -qa member is committing to follow-up with the DD if anything is required, which LP-assisted bug reporting doesn't achieve.
[03:23] <persia> (plus, the barrier for entry to QA is surprisingly low)
[03:23] <broonie> persia: Why does the launchpad assistedness make any difference there?
[03:24] <minghua> I'm all for making it easy to forward bugs (transfer reports, attachments, etc.), but I think the forwarding should be done (or enabled for anyone to do) by the Debian maintainer.
[03:24] <Hobbsee> persia: was in the initial post, i believe
[03:24] <Hobbsee> persia: true - and it's getting lower, i think
[03:25] <persia> broonie: See Ian's mail (linked earlier by Scott).  Basically, the use of a web form generates different content than the writing of an email.  Also, clicking a button to forward to the BTS doesn't necessarily give the QA member the necessary sense of responsibility.
[03:25] <persia> Hobbsee: yep - I'm fully in agreement with Ian on this, and have almost nothing to add :)
[03:25] <ScottK> The big question is, is this something Ubuntu should unilaterally or only after agreement with Debian.  I tend to think the latter.
[03:25] <broonie> persia: I agree about the different content bit, it was specifically the commitment to following up that raised my eyebrow.
[03:26] <persia> broonie: Perhaps not for everyone, but for me clicking a button seems less personal than drafting an email.  The email makes me think a little harder (and I've actually uploaded something to Ubuntu twice before sending the bug report to Debian, just to make extra sure).
[03:27] <ScottK> I also worry about the e-mail design issues.  How is this design going to interact with various e-mail authentication/authorization technologies (e.g. SPF)?
[03:28] <broonie> persia: True. You may well end up with something like displaying a confirmation screen allowing editing of the e-mail afterwards.
[03:29] <persia> broonie: Maybe, but I'm not sure that achieves the desired affect.  Not everyone uses a webclient for email.
[03:29] <TheMuso> With the packages I really care about, I'm usually in contact with Debian, and upstream anyway.
[03:29] <broonie> persia: Yup.
[03:29] <RainCT> is the prefix number on .dpatch files just random or does it have a meaning?
[03:29] <broonie> persia: I can't see a web interface ever being ideal.
[03:30] <TheMuso> RainCT: Its best to use one to indicate the order that the patches get applied.
[03:30] <persia> RainCT: By convention, it's the order in which the patches should be applied, but this is only a convention: the order is actually controlled by 00list
[03:30] <ScottK> Given that Debian has already decided they actively don't want a web interface to BTS, it seems presumptious of LP to provide one.
[03:30] <persia> broonie: Right.  If it were, there'd be a web interface to the BTS already :)
[03:30] <RainCT> ok, thanks. tought it is the order, but on the 00list there is 13 before 10 lol
[03:31] <broonie> persia: Well, the situation with forwarding bugs from LP (when used with care) is substantially different to that for Debian users.
[03:32] <broonie> For example, the dependency information is a lot less useful and LP has some e-mail validation.
[03:32] <persia> broonie: Should it be?  For myself, I tend to check in sid to make sure I can replicate beforehand, at which point I'm a Debian user :)  I've still had bugs rejected by maintainers who tell me that sid isn't stable enough to use.
[03:33] <broonie> WTF?
[03:34] <man-di_> persia: jerks
[03:34] <persia> broonie: Transitions sometimes break things - they can be fixed in the time it takes to triage the bug properly, if it's sufficiently obscure.
[03:34] <persia> man-di_: Not really.  I'd only apply that to those that refuse to use my patches because they don't want to take back from Ubuntu.
[03:36] <broonie> persia: That should be a "sorry, $TRANSITION is causing some upset which should settle down shortly" not "sid is a FPOS, get lost".
[03:37] <persia> broonie: No worries.  People are generally relatively polite: it was more "Could you please retest with Etch or Lenny?  Sid is likely to experience issues that might contribute to the problem" when it was a sid-only version.
[03:38] <TheMuso> WOw. A package I maintain/care about has just switched to GPL3 for a new upstream version.
[03:38] <man-di_> TheMuso: then you have fun with all the license incompatiblities now, cool
[03:39] <TheMuso> man-di_: Thats what I am worried about, as I am no licensing expert.
[03:40] <TheMuso> I think the upstream author switched just because he thought he should, not so much that that he gains/benefits from it.
[03:40] <TheMuso> Or that others gain/benefit from it.
[03:40] <StevenK> TheMuso: espeak?
[03:40] <TheMuso> StevenK: Yup.
[03:42] <man-di_> TheMuso: here is a nice table for you: http://gplv3.fsf.org/dd3-faq
[03:42] <TheMuso> Added to that that I think he has altered the ABI, so I need to check that also.
[03:42] <TheMuso> man-di_: Thanks.
[03:43] <TheMuso> meh. Never been a fan of tables.
[03:44] <StevenK> ScottK: You subscribe?
[03:44] <ScottK> Yes
[03:45] <StevenK> ScottK: DD perk is free LWN subscription, paid for by HP.
[03:45] <ScottK> Nice.  No such luck for me.
[03:45] <RAOF> StevenK: Cool.
[03:45] <RAOF> Wow.  Nouveau really knows how to spew text into Xorg.log.  1.6 Mb of it.
[03:45] <ScottK> I started reading it well before I even used Linux.  Part of getting ready.
[03:45] <StevenK> I read it before you had to pay, too. I stopped when you had to, and picked it up when HP introduced that.
[03:46] <StevenK> RAOF: Does it actually work?
[03:46] <RAOF> StevenK: Not this week, hence the 1.6 mb debug spew.  It was working last week, though :)
[03:46] <StevenK> Heh
[03:47] <RAOF> For a sufficiently lenient defitition of the word "work"
[03:49] <StevenK> Hrm. They had a table. Where did that bugger off to?
[03:49] <TheMuso> http://gplv3.fsf.org/dd3-faq
[03:49] <StevenK> The Nouveau table, not the GPLv3 table. :-P
[03:50] <TheMuso> oh
[03:50] <TheMuso> ok
[03:50] <StevenK> RAOF: What card?
[03:50] <RAOF> StevenK: Which one were you thinking of?  The "todo" table, or the "renouveau dump" table
[03:50] <RAOF> 7600 go
[03:50] <StevenK> RAOF: There was a table that had the NV series and what worked, didn't and was being worked on.
[03:51] <RAOF> Until I updated, glxgears worked.  As long as width <= height, at least
[03:51] <RAOF> StevenK: No longer.  That's not being updated for some reason.
[03:52] <StevenK> Ah.
[03:52] <StevenK> Where do I get this renouveau thing?
[03:53] <RAOF> StevenK: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/REnouveau
[03:53] <TheMuso> Is there a relatively simple way to determine whether a library's symbols have changed enough that requires apps that depend on it to be rebuilt?
[03:54] <StevenK> Try an app?
[03:54] <persia> TheMuso: Does the library come with a testsuite?
[03:55] <TheMuso> persia: No.
[03:55] <RAOF> TheMuso: It really should be possible to automate that, I think.  Strip out all the new symbols, and see if any of the remnants have changed?
[03:55] <TheMuso> StevenK: Well I've tried that, and all looks good so far.
[03:55] <TheMuso> RAOF: All the new symbols?
[03:55] <TheMuso> As in, how would one do that?
[03:55] <persia> TheMuso: Well then.  The best way is to use the testsuite from the old version.  Without that, try some apps.  You might not exercise everything, but you should notice if there are large changes.
[03:55] <TheMuso> And how would one compare them?
[03:56] <broonie> vorlon was doing some work on that in Debian.
[03:56] <RAOF> TheMuso: diff? :)
[03:56] <TheMuso> RAOF: Certainly not on the binary...
[03:56] <persia> TheMuso: Use objdump to get something in text before using diff.
[03:56] <RAOF> You can dump the symbols from a lib.
[03:57] <shawarma> nm -T to see the symbols, and grep magic to find their prototypes from the header files or whatever. It's not perfect (public structs may have changed, etc.), but any changes found this way will most probably cause problems.
[03:57] <TheMuso> shawarma: Ok thanks.
[03:57] <RAOF> StevenK: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/ToDo is the closest thing to a "what's working" list.
[03:57] <shawarma> TheMuso: Which library?
[03:58] <TheMuso> shawarma: Comparing espeak 1.26's shared lib to the one that gets built in 1.27. There was a mention ni the changelog about stuff being added to the initialize call.
[03:59] <mruiz> hi all
[03:59] <shawarma> TheMuso: Um, make that "nm -D --defined-symbols". I'm an idiot.
[03:59] <TheMuso> ok
[03:59] <StevenK> Jane Austin?
[03:59] <StevenK> Oh geez.
[04:00] <RAOF> Ok, and maybe there'll be some sleep, too :P
[04:00] <mruiz> Today is REVU day?
[04:01] <ryanakca> night RAOF, and, I think I've found the guilty line of code...
[04:03] <TheMuso> shawarma: What sort of differences am I looking for? I see numbers, single letters, and then the name of the functions from the header.
[04:03] <mruiz> hi dholbach . REVU day ?
[04:03] <shawarma> TheMuso: Just the name, actually.
[04:03] <ryanakca> mruiz: I believe so
[04:03] <shawarma> TheMuso: If anything has removed, we're screwed.
[04:03] <shawarma> TheMuso: Anything added is fine.
[04:03] <TheMuso> shawarma: Right.
[04:04] <shawarma> TheMuso: Now, using the list of functions exposed, find their prototypes from the header files.
[04:04] <dholbach> mruiz: I'm at a conference at the moment and involved in a bunch of discussions and other things and just going through heaps of emails, so I'm not sure I'll find a lot of time for REVUing
[04:04] <shawarma> TheMuso: Hang on, though. I'm looking at the source right now. They seem to have some sort of handling for it.
[04:04] <dholbach> mruiz: I hope you find somebody else to review
[04:04] <mruiz> thanks dholbach :-)
[04:05] <ScottK> mruiz: What package?
[04:05] <mruiz> hi ScottK : archmage, deluge-torrent, fetchyahoo
[04:06] <TheMuso> shawarma: They actually have a comment in the header, calling it API revision 2. Should this mean a soname bump?
[04:06] <ScottK> Pick one that has the best chance of me liking it
[04:06] <ryanakca> ScottK: aoeui released 1.0.3
[04:06] <persia> mruiz: You'll get the best response with the name of the package, the REVU URL, and a note indicating whether it's new, it's fixes from a comment, or it's waiting for a second advocate.
[04:06] <ScottK> mruiz: What persia said.
[04:07] <mruiz> thanks persia 
[04:07] <persia> TheMuso: Generally, that's a strong indication a transition is required.
[04:07] <mruiz> ScottK: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5911  I need a comment about it
[04:07] <shawarma> TheMuso: They comment that they bumped the API version because they added the options argument to the init function.
[04:08] <mruiz> ScottK: all my packages are "upgrades"
[04:08] <ScottK> OK.
[04:08] <TheMuso> shawarma: Yeah I know.
[04:08] <TheMuso> But that doesn't necessarily mean a soname bump does it?
[04:08] <shawarma> TheMuso: However, I'm not entirely sure whether the fact that stuff doesn't break when adding an arg to the end of the list is a coincidence or by the C's design.
[04:08] <persia> mruiz: For upgrades, it's best to indicate it's an upgrade in a REVU comment, make sure there's an upgrade bug in LP, and subscribe U-U-S (or U-M-S if required) for sponsorship.
[04:09] <RainCT> keescook: (a patch for non-i386 architectures for Open Invaders is in progress upstream :))
[04:09] <broonie> It's blind luck; at best you'll be passing random junk in to the last argument.
[04:09] <persia> If it's a new argument to the init function, everything should be recompiled, or it won't initialise properly.
[04:10] <ScottK> mruiz: Why are we jumping Debian for deluge-torrent?  
[04:10] <TheMuso> Ok. But I want to be clear on the soname stuff. I am guessing a soname bump isn't needed, because it hasn't been done, but I want to be sure.
[04:11] <persia> TheMuso: If you don't do a soname bump, you'll have a manual transition with breakage (perhaps you remember libhunspell a couple months ago).
[04:11] <TheMuso> persia: No I don't.
[04:11] <ScottK> mruiz: Same question for fetchyahoo?
[04:12] <TheMuso> I generally stay away from stuff like that, as I don't yet understand it.
[04:12] <ryanakca> Umm... any python genius feel like helping me with rdsc? (It's a quick script that I wrote that uploads a .dsc to a server in an incomming dir, and then runs a script on the server side that moves it to queued pbuilds it, (if successful, puts the built stuff in local repo) and sticks the build log on the local webserver.
[04:12] <TheMuso> But since things are changing here, I need to understand it to know the best path forward.
[04:12] <mruiz> Scottk: I'm preparing my answer
[04:12] <ScottK> OK.
[04:12] <ryanakca> s/queued pbuilds/queued, pbuilds/g
[04:12] <persia> TheMuso: bug 111940
[04:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 111940 in openoffice.org "libhunspell-1.1-0 1.1.5-6: Incompatible ABI change" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111940
[04:12] <shawarma> TheMuso: It's fine.
[04:13] <shawarma> TheMuso: Don't worry about it.
[04:13] <shawarma> TheMuso: Adding an extra arg to the end of a function doesn't break backwards compatibilty.
[04:13] <TheMuso> Ok.
[04:13] <TheMuso> persia: Will have a read, and then I'm off to bed.
[04:13] <shawarma> I didn't think it did, and infinity just confirmed it in #u-d
[04:13] <persia> shawarma: Except when it's the initialisation function, in which case old apps might not get a working environment.
[04:13] <ScottK> mr
[04:14] <ScottK> Oops
[04:14] <shawarma> persia: Depends on the library. 
[04:14] <mruiz> ScottK, the bug #124527 was related to upgrade the version of deluge-torrent in Ubuntu and Debian. I uploaded my version before debian maintainer prepared a new version.
[04:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124527 in deluge-torrent "new upstream version available 0.5.2" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124527
[04:14] <ScottK> mruiz: As you've no doubt guessed I would ask, same question about archmage.
[04:14] <shawarma> persia: It can handle it gracefully if it wants.
[04:14] <persia> shawarma: True.
[04:15] <persia> TheMuso: You'll have to inspect the code to see if it's safe :)
[04:15] <TheMuso> persia: Right.
[04:15] <shawarma> persia: espeak in particular has a #define API_VERSION or something to that effect, so it can know whether to use the new arg or just ignore it.
[04:16] <shawarma> persia: Whether it does so or not remains to be determined, but the very fact that they realize that they need to update the API, but didn't bump the soname (which I assume they didn't) hints that they know what they're doing.
[04:16] <ScottK> mruiz: Since the candidate package for deluge-torrent is on mentors waiting for sponsorship, I don't see a lot of value in doing an Ubuntu unique upload.  I'd say just watch it and file a sync request.  We've plenty of time to UVF.
[04:17] <ScottK> mruiz: Maybe StevenK or man-di_ would want to sponsor it: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/d/deluge-torrent
[04:17] <persia> If upstream provides a reliable orig.tar.gz syncing -1 over -0ubuntu1 only gives us more testing (but it's better if the packaging is mostly the same).
[04:18] <ScottK> persia: Yes, but if it's already on mentors it's only a matter of a few days difference.
[04:18] <ScottK> mruiz: What about the other two packages?
[04:18] <persia> ScottK: True.  I guess it depends on the status of the package (I've never used mentors)
[04:19] <ScottK> persia: In my experience I've always gotten stuff uploaded in a day or two.
[04:19] <mruiz> ScottK: I understand... I did it before only ;-) (My package : Saturday / Debian mentor: Sunday) 
[04:19] <ScottK> Right.
[04:20] <ScottK> mruiz: I appreciate your effort, but in this case I think we're better off just to wait and sync.  Another MOTU may feel different.
[04:20] <TheMuso> Ok, I am a little more confused, but I will look at it with a fresher mind, tomorrow.
[04:21] <mruiz> then, how time should I to waitfor Debian-related work?
[04:21] <persia> ScottK: makes sense.  Commenting about mentors in the REVU may also be good.
[04:21] <ScottK> mruiz: Generally I'd e-mail the Debian maintainer and find out their intent.
[04:22] <mruiz> ScottK: thanks for this tip
[04:23] <ScottK> mruiz: If the other two packages do not have an imminent Debian upload, you might want to consider changing distro/version and uploading them to Debian yourself (just make sure they build in a Sid pbuilder).
[04:23] <ScottK> More people can benifit from your work that way.
[04:24] <mruiz> interesting...
[04:24] <ScottK> mruiz: Why don't you check with the maintainers on the other two and if they don't have something in the works, let us know here and then we'll look at them for upload to Ubuntu.
[04:24] <mruiz> how is the process to upload "ubuntu" packages to Debian ?
[04:24] <ScottK> mruiz: See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian
[04:25] <ScottK> mruiz: 
[04:26] <mruiz> ScottK, I will contact Debian maintainer of the packages
[04:26] <ScottK> mruiz: If the Debian maintainers aren't working on the updated packages, you should let us know here.  If they are interested, but busy, then you can (with distro/version adujustments) upload them to mentors so the DD can upload them if they want.
[04:26] <ScottK> OK
[04:44] <ScottK> Good $TIME_OF_DAY leonel.  Gotten any Dapper clamav backport testing done?
[04:45] <leonel> ScottK: only clamav    and worked  fine  
[04:45] <ScottK> Good.  What are you using it with?  I don't recall.
[04:46] <leonel> only tested  clamav  
[04:46] <leonel> this afternoon  I'll setup a real mailserver  
[04:46] <leonel> with clamav  clamsmtp  in dapper
[04:46] <leonel> I'll let you know  how it went
[04:47] <ScottK> Cool.
[04:47] <leonel> maybe in 2 hours I'll start
[04:47] <ScottK> Be sure and add the info to the wiki page.
[04:47] <ScottK> Great.
[04:52] <dholbach> TheMuso, Lutin, geser: can you PLEASE add a copyright notice to your scripts in https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-dev-tools
[04:52] <dholbach> PLEASE
[04:56] <mruiz> bye all !
[04:58] <geser> dholbach: there is no script of mine, I only patched the existing one
[04:59] <dholbach> oh ok, thanks geser
[05:18] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:19] <Hobbsee> you could just...archive all the bad ones...or something
[05:19] <ScottK> Might wear out the button on my touchpad.
[05:20] <ScottK> That and I just love the "Oh, this doesn't need a review for upload, I just put it here for X".
[05:20] <ScottK> And also the ones that do a new upload after they got rejected by the archive admins, don't mention it, and don't fix the reason they got rejected.
[05:39] <LucidFox> new upload: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5936
[05:39] <ScottK> keescook: Looking at this http://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=23961 security bug in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libnet-dns-perl it appears there is a vulnerability in our released versions.  Is this something that you think is worth fixing?
[05:51] <sacater> hmm, how do I delete one of my wiki pages
[05:51] <sacater> on wiki.ubuntu.com
[05:53] <ScottK> sacater: I think you need to ask someone with admin rights to do that.  No idea how one goes about it.  I'd suggest searching the wiki because I recall it being discussed there.
[05:54] <sacater> ScottK: thanks
[05:54] <sacater> ScottK: wiki.ubuntu.com/Q+ADays
[05:54] <Hobbsee> sacater: you can - there's a delete page thing on the list of options of things you can do, on the page
[05:54] <Hobbsee> on the drop down box
[05:55] <sacater> aha
[05:55] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Thanks for the correction.
[05:55] <sacater> Hobbsee: thanks
[05:56] <Hobbsee> no problem
[05:56] <leonel> ScottK:  dapper  + clamav0.93 from kitterman.org   + clamsmtp   working  !
[05:57] <ScottK> leonel: The dapper version of clamsmtp (1.6 something)?
[05:59] <LucidFox> may I release my packaging under GPLv3 and above?
[06:00] <LucidFox> (that is, in debian/copyright)
[06:00] <ScottK> Sure.
[06:01] <ScottK> You will need to put a full copy of the license in debian/copyright since that's not an installed license yet (AFIAK).
[06:01] <minghua> Depend on what license the package in under, actually.
[06:01] <LucidFox> BSD
[06:01] <minghua> Then sure.
[06:01] <leonel> ScottK: yes it is 
[06:02] <ScottK> leonel: Great.  Please add that to the wiki page then.
[06:02] <minghua> Although I always recommend licensing your packaging the same as the package.
[06:02] <ScottK> LucidFox: Why do you want to do that?
[06:02] <leonel> ScottK: let me check the status for clamsmtpd   it there are any bugs to be fixed 
[06:03] <LucidFox> well, no reason other than my firm belief in GPL3 :)
[06:03] <leonel> ScottK: since  clamsmtpd  is  1.9  and as yuy say  dapper has  1.6
[06:04] <ScottK> leonel: The point with now is to find out what MUST be backported with a new clamav.  Thanks to your testing, clamsmtpd is NOT one we need to worry about.  Not that a backport wouldn't be desireable, just not required.
[06:04] <minghua> LucidFox: not a very good reason IMHO.
[06:04] <leonel> ScottK: Ok
[06:05] <ScottK> leonel: Of course that also likely means that clamsmtpd could be backported independent of clamav version, so no need to wait if the new clamsmptd works with the old clamav (I expect it will).
[06:06] <nixternal> holy smokes you are cool! :)
[06:06] <ScottK> Who?
[06:06] <nixternal> all of you I guess :)
[06:11] <Hobbsee> ScottK: heh.  sometimes, i'd like an internal list like that
[06:12] <Hobbsee> ScottK: and one for the ones who learn from their mistakes, or dont
[06:12] <ScottK> Right.
[06:12] <minghua> I said grading system for REVU would be nice. :-)
[06:12] <Hobbsee> minghua: please write one :)
[06:12] <Hobbsee> darn
[06:13] <ScottK> One piece of advice for those who want packages reviewed: If a MOTU says "Please do X in the future so I don't waste my time with Y", don't write back and say wasting my time wasn't be big deal.
[06:13] <Hobbsee> uhhhh...what?
[06:13] <sacater> update-manager -d is claiming that 7.10 is available
[06:13] <minghua> ScottK: Who did that?
[06:13] <sacater> does that mean its an oficial test
[06:13] <sacater> i mean
[06:13] <sacater> beta
[06:13] <sacater> or is it the tribe?
[06:14] <ScottK> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5592
[06:14] <ScottK> That's not a direct quote, but that was my reaction to the last comment.
[06:14] <Hobbsee> ScottK: he's....usually better than that.
[06:15] <ScottK> He's also the one that did a new upload after getting rejected by the archive admins without fixing the reason for the rejection or explaining that there was a problem in a comment.
[06:16] <Hobbsee> ScottK: yummy
[06:16] <Hobbsee> REVU annoys me like that.  there's so much of it
[06:17] <sacater> to upgrade to 7.10 or not
[06:17] <sacater> taht is the question
[06:17] <Hobbsee> wait
[06:21] <geser> Hobbsee: the next time you upload a bzr version please run bzr export to not ship the .bzr dir
[06:22] <Hobbsee> geser: oh, point.
[06:22] <Hobbsee> so *that*'s why it hasnt liked my other uploads
[06:22] <Hobbsee> wait.  casper ships with a .bzr/, i thought
[06:22] <geser> Hobbsee: I haven't checked yet why it FTBFS
[06:22] <Hobbsee> geser: mvo's looking into it
[06:23] <Hobbsee> geser: apt is "special"
[06:23] <geser> apt_0.7.2ubuntu4.tar.gz: 1.7 MB, apt_0.7.2ubuntu6.tar.gz: 25 MB
[06:23] <Hobbsee> sheesh
[06:24] <geser> $ du -sh apt-0.7.2ubuntu6/.bzr/
[06:24] <geser> 28M     apt-0.7.2ubuntu6/.bzr/
[06:24] <Hobbsee> yeah
[06:25] <sacater> is it safe to upgrade to 7.10 yet?
[06:25] <ScottK> No
[06:25] <sacater> doh
[06:25] <ScottK> No is a good general answer, but particularly right now, definitely no.
[06:26] <sacater> apt breaks?
[06:26] <Hobbsee> yes
[06:26] <geser> and curl
[06:26] <nixternal> not if you leave them in the "do not install" state :)
[06:27] <ScottK> OOO too.
[06:28] <Hobbsee> oh that'd be nice.
[06:29] <Hobbsee> i do actually need ooo to work for a while, to write something useful, like a resume.
[06:29] <LucidFox> Anyway, new upload: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5937
[06:30] <ScottK> LucidFox: When I see things like "+<possible notes regarding this package - if none, delete this file>" in the diff, I conclude that you aren't serious about wanting the package uploaded.  At least fill out/remove the boilerplate.
[06:31] <LucidFox> Ouch.
[06:31] <LucidFox> Usually I don't forget to remove README.debian
[06:32] <ScottK> That's not the first time I've seen that today, so I may be a little touchy on the subject.
[06:33] <nixternal> I keep the README.debian and put "For a good time call ScottK" in it :p
[06:34] <LucidFox> lol
[06:35] <ScottK> Not to mention avoiding grafitti spewing Vista lovers.
[06:37] <nixternal> oooh, that was low
[06:38] <LucidFox> reuploaded
[06:40] <leonel> ScottK:  mimedefang is listed on  clamav  rdepend  and clamav is listed as  suggest for mimedefang    but if I remove  libclamav2 and clamav   mimedefang  does not gets marked for removal  
[06:42] <leonel> ScottK: I think  It's  like  clamsmtp  that works with a socket to talk to clamav  and not uses   libclamav2
[06:44] <geser> Hobbsee: I've build successfully apt 0.7.2ubuntu6 in a current gutsy pbuilder on amd64, so I wonder why it FTBFS
[06:44] <Hobbsee> geser: so have i.  it's a pbuilder vs sbuild thing, it seems.
[06:44] <Hobbsee> and other screwy things
[06:45] <dholbach> lionel: when do you mark bugs as 'fix released'?
[06:45] <dholbach> lionel: and when as 'fix committed'?
[06:45] <dholbach> once stuff is uploaded you can mark it as 'fix released'
[06:46] <leonel> ScottK: same for  Mailscanner   they talk to the clamav daemon
[06:49] <LucidFox> what's sbuild?
[06:51] <azeem> something similar to pbuilder
[06:52] <nixternal> I heard it is the Ferrari of builders
[06:52] <lionel> dholbach: we use to mark as fix committed when it was uploaded, and fixed released when built
[06:52] <nixternal> ;)
[06:52] <dholbach> lionel: ok, that's fine with me
[06:53] <dholbach> I just came across a bunch of fix committed sponsoring bugs
[06:53] <lionel> but now we LP close bugs on uploads, i'm not sure it makes sense
[06:53] <lionel> We had a discussion about that one time
[06:53] <lionel> We just have to be consistent
[07:02] <sommer> leonel: Are you working on the mimedefang using ScottK's clamav package?
[07:03] <leonel> sommer: just installed  and read the info  really didn't tested   
[07:03] <leonel> sommer: checking if it could be installed or not  and how it works  
[07:03] <sommer> leonel: cool I just didn't want to duplicate work if you were taking that package.
[07:03] <leonel> sommer:  and  yes needs to test that package 
[07:04] <leonel> sommer: but I'm really short in time to read and understand all what that package needs to be tested  
[07:04] <leonel> sommer: but installed fine 
[07:05] <sommer> leonel: that's cool I can dig into some this week. 
[07:05] <sommer> I just confirmed that p3scan works with the new clamav.
[07:05] <leonel> sommer: great  
[07:06] <sommer> funny thing...this weekedn I spent like 2 hours trying to download a virus to test.
[07:06] <sommer> then came to work this morning and had like 3 in by inbox.
[07:06] <leonel> :)
[07:06] <leonel> sommer: clamav-testfiles  
[07:07] <leonel> sommer: there's a deb with test files 
[07:07] <leonel> sommer: http://www.kitterman.com/clamav/clamav-testfiles_0.90.3-1ubuntu2~dapper1_all.deb
[07:07] <sommer> ya, I tried those, but I wanted to be sure it caught a "live" one.
[07:07] <Nafallo> hehe. nice. we should advertise that as a feature.
[07:07] <Nafallo> in Ubuntu, we package viruses for YOUR pleasure
[07:08] <sommer> heh :)
[07:08] <leonel> Nafallo: WE are a  BIG  windows virus  working to smash  bug 1
[07:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[07:08] <Nafallo> ;-)
[07:27] <leonel> mimedefang  works with sendmail ..   :(
[07:33] <norsetto> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5851 is looking for reviewers!
[07:34] <norsetto> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5907 is also looking for reviewers!!
[07:40] <zul> leonel: i think mimedefang is suppose to work with sendmail ;)
[07:41] <leonel> zul: I know  but I use postfix .. that's why my :(    so I can test it with  ScottK clamav
[07:54] <zul> some of these "deriatives" are getting annoynig
[07:55] <Nafallo> zul: like... Kubuntu? :-)
[07:55] <zul> http://ubuntusoftware.info/Ubuntu_Ultimate_CD/
[07:55] <zul> i like apt errors in their screenshots
[07:56] <Nafallo> zul: kewl. they are breaking trademark I think :-)
[07:57] <zul> just a bit
[08:10] <ScottK> leonel: Sounds like you are doing good work on testing.  Please keep it up.
[08:10] <ScottK> We do need Sendmail users to test stuff too if any are around.
[08:15] <Nafallo> I had to play with sendmail at work today
[08:15] <Nafallo> I want to burn the fucking box as soon I've migrated to postfix @ Ubuntu :-)
[08:18] <ScottK> leonel: The current clamassassin 1.2.4 in Gutsy is compatible with both the new and old clamav (via config file) so it would make sense to go ahead and request a backport of that.
[08:18] <ScottK> leonel: Would you check and see if the current clamassassin builds/runs on Dapper?
[08:19] <holst> I would like to make a module-assistant compatible package of a kernel module which need to patch the kernel source
[08:19] <holst> How can I go about to do this?
[08:19] <leonel> ScottK: ok   
[08:19] <ScottK> leonel: Thanks.
[08:20] <Nafallo> or rather. I know I ain't that :-)
[08:20] <holst> ScottK: information wants to be free and GPL:ed =D
[08:21] <holst> I have looked at the monster package openafs
[08:21] <holst> hehe, ok I wonder there, thx =D
[08:22] <Nafallo> :-P
[08:24] <zul> ScottK: thanks
[08:24] <ScottK> For?
[08:24] <ScottK> zul?
[08:24] <zul> 14:23  * ScottK activates his "Somebody else's problem" field and gets back to coding.
[08:24] <ScottK> Ah.  You're welcome.
[09:20] <leonel> ScottK:  gutsy  clamassassin  and  clamsmtpd  builded in dapper's pbuilder  installed  tested  all worked  GOOD with clamav 0.93 
[09:21] <ScottK> leonel: Great.  Why don't you file a dapper-backport bug for clamassassin as I know we'll need that to backport clamav and then put a link to it on the wiki.
[09:22] <leonel> ScottK: for clamsmtp no ?
[09:23] <leonel> ScottK: even there's a new  clamsmtp  1.9  and gutsy has 1.8 
[09:23] <superm1> ScottK, I just saw your comment on my bug 124935, did you not see my previous comment that it was on revu?
[09:23] <ScottK> leonel: I'd say not yet.  The backports team has a limited throughput and we don't NEED a new clamsmtp to upgrade clamav, so I'd suggest holding off on that one.
[09:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124935 in mythbuntu-default-settings "Please pull in newer revision, 0.3" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124935
[09:23] <ScottK> superm1: I did.  There's no need to file a bug for that.  I just confuses things.
[09:23] <ScottK> I/It
[09:25] <superm1> ScottK, to that effect, could you look over the upload at revu?
[09:25] <ScottK> Not just now, no.
[09:26] <ScottK> With any luck (and I didn't eff up the coding to badly) I'll be doing a release today.
[09:26] <ScottK> I need to concentrate on that.
[09:26] <superm1> i see :)
[09:26] <leonel> ok
[09:27] <leonel> ScottK: the clamassasin backport from gutsy to dapper  it needs  clamav 0.93  ...  how will this be handled ?
[09:30] <leonel> ScottK: the backport will be from gutsty to dapper ?
[09:33] <leonel> ScottK: bug 124938
[09:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124938 in dapper-backports "Please Backport Clamassassin from gutsy to dapper" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124938
[09:33] <leonel> is it right ?
[09:34] <tsmithe> hi all
[09:34] <tsmithe> is there a motu around with a little spare time to check out/upload a couple of packages i've re-uploaded to revu after rejection from the archive (copyright issues)? ubuntustudio-sounds and usplash-theme-ubuntustudio are the packages
[09:34] <tsmithe> thanks :)
[09:35] <tsmithe> man-di_, you around? did you get my e-mail(s)? (been having trouble with postfix, as you'll know if my latest one got to you)
[09:36] <man-di_> tsmithe: yes, got it
[09:36] <tsmithe> excellent :)
[09:37] <man-di_> tsmithe: but I was not able to check it yet, hard disk crash
[09:37] <tsmithe> heh unlucky; i hope you get it recovered
[09:37] <man-di_> tsmithe: I'm doing backups so its not that bad
[09:37] <man-di_> tsmithe: it just takes time to re-setup stuff
[09:38] <tsmithe> ahh ok then; still a pain though
[09:39] <man-di_> tsmithe: yes
[09:39] <man-di_> tsmithe: perhaps I find a chroot on another machine...
[09:40] <tsmithe> that would be cool
[09:42] <frafu> Hello, I am trying to build my first .deb package from a C source. I am following this howto: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html .  I had to add among others libdbus-glib-1-dev to debian/control. I now get the error that apt-get does not find it. However, it is present in the Synaptic Package Manager. Don't they use the same sources.list? Can  anybody please help me? 
[09:43] <ScottK> leonel: Clamassassin shouldn't need the new clamav.  According to it's documenation, it can handle either version.  If the clamassassin package has a dependency on the newer clamav version, then mention in the bug that it needs to be adjusted.
[09:43] <superm1> Hi frafu, are you building it in pbuilder?
[09:44] <superm1> or just the local env. via debuild or dpkg-buildpackage
[09:44] <frafu> yes, i think
[09:44] <bluekuja> frafu, do you know what the function of a pbuilder?
[09:45] <frafu> I am using the guide cited above 
[09:45] <bluekuja> frafu, yeah, but please answer my question
[09:45] <superm1> so you are building via something to the like of pbuilder build NAME.dsc
[09:45] <bluekuja> frafu, install the pbuilder package
[09:45] <leonel> ScottK: you are right   it does not need the new clamav  for build
[09:46] <bluekuja> frafu, and then update pbuilder tarball to gutsy editing conf file in /etc/pbuilder
[09:47] <bluekuja> frafu, via sudo pbuilder update or sudo pbuilder update --basetgz /where/tarball/is
[09:47] <frafu> pbuilder is installed 
[09:47] <bluekuja> frafu, great! :)
[09:47] <bluekuja> frafu, now create the tarball
[09:47] <bluekuja> if not already done
[09:47] <bluekuja> via sudo pbuilder create
[09:47] <bluekuja> you can use --basetgz option too 
[09:48] <bluekuja> to define where you can place it
[09:48] <bluekuja> e.g for multiple tarballs (gutsy, unstable and so on)
[09:49] <frafu> ok;  I will update to gutsy. 
[09:49] <bluekuja> frafu, sounds good
[09:49] <bluekuja> frafu, if you have any doubt on how to do it, I'm here
[09:49] <superm1> bluekuja, how did you know he didn't have a gutsy pbuilder generated from what he said there?
[09:50] <bluekuja> superm1, this phrase says everything:
[09:50] <bluekuja> frafu> yes, i think
[09:50] <superm1> ah the ' i think ' :)
[09:50] <bluekuja> :)
[09:50] <superm1> good call there then
[09:51] <bluekuja> tnx :)
[09:52] <xxxxx1> bye all
[09:55] <Nightrose> Kmos: thx @ klogshow
[09:57] <soothsayer> Anybody have a debarchiver.conf configured for Ubuntu?
[09:57] <frafu> bluekuja: When I type this: sudo pbuilder update --basetgz /var/cache/pbuilder/,  I get:  /home/frafu/.pbuilderrc does not exist; but there is a tarball in /var/cache/pbuilder/
[09:58] <bluekuja> frafu, where did you create the tarball?
[09:58] <bluekuja> on default dir?
[09:58] <bluekuja> e.g pbuilder create
[09:58] <frafu> yes, 
[09:58] <bluekuja> without adding basetgz?
[09:58] <frafu> sudo pbuilder create
[09:58] <bluekuja> ok
[09:58] <bluekuja> thewn
[09:58] <bluekuja> *then
[09:58] <bluekuja> just do sudo pbuilder update
[09:58] <bluekuja> and it will work
[09:59] <bluekuja> you don't have to specify the basetgz if it has been created in default dir
[09:59] <bluekuja> (/var/cache/pbuilder)
[09:59] <frafu> ok; how does he know to update to gutsy? 
[09:59] <bluekuja> you have to modify conf file
[09:59] <bluekuja> in /etc/pbuilder
[10:00] <frafu> ok
[10:00] <bluekuja> this way
[10:00] <bluekuja> sudo gedit /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc
[10:00] <frafu> i will look at the conf
[10:00] <bluekuja> just use that comment, and you'll figure out :)
[10:02] <bluekuja> frafu, I give you one more hint
[10:02] <bluekuja> DISTRIBUTION=gutsy
[10:02] <bluekuja> is the place :)
[10:03] <bluekuja> frafu, remember to un-comment COMPONENTS field
[10:03] <bluekuja> so you have universe/multiverse active too
[10:03] <frafu> However the .deb should be for feisty. Will that not be a problem? 
[10:04] <bluekuja> frafu, that change things :)
[10:04] <bluekuja> just use feisty then
[10:04] <bluekuja> as distribution
[10:04] <superm1> frafu, development here happens to target gutsy, if you wanted to get this into the archive, it should build in a gutsy pbuilder as well
[10:05] <bluekuja> frafu, as superm1 says if you want to get it included in gutsy, you have to test it with a gutsy pbuilder
[10:05] <bluekuja> if is a personal test
[10:05] <bluekuja> you're choice
[10:05] <bluekuja> :)
[10:06] <superm1> (personally) I keep around several pbuilders, dapper, edgy, feisty, gutsy - so that I can easily test it across a few of them if i'd like to backport
[10:06] <bluekuja> same 
[10:06] <superm1> there is a set of scripts out there to easily switch among them
[10:07] <frafu> no, it is a new application; I wanted to build the dbian package and post it in the forums if people wanted to test it... 
[10:07] <bluekuja> frafu, yeah, a NEW app can be included as well
[10:07] <bluekuja> so consider it as valid to join the archive, maybe pushing it to REVU
[10:08] <bluekuja> so you can get a review
[10:11] <frafu> I am not the developer; it is from a GSoC. (mousetweaks. In the forum, there was a person who wanted to test it, but was not able to compile it. (It works on my ubuntu feisty). So I decided to try to make a .deb
[10:15] <bluekuja> frafu, ok then^^
[10:16] <frafu> i have uncommented COMPONENTS
[10:16] <frafu> to also enable universe 
[10:17] <bluekuja> frafu, perfect, now just update, and you're done
[10:17] <frafu> update gives me the help of pbuilder
[10:17] <frafu> !? 
[10:18] <bluekuja> ?
[10:19] <frafu> as if you type pbuilder -h
[10:19] <bluekuja> frafu, impossible^^
[10:19] <frafu> typo
[10:19] <bluekuja> ^^
[10:22] <frafu> Another question: how can I determine all the dependencies of a package? From the imports of the C source? 
[10:22] <frafu> update ok
[10:23] <man-di_> frafu: try and error with pbuilder
[10:23] <bluekuja> yup
[10:23] <bluekuja> until you get everything correct
[10:23] <bluekuja> e.g running configure
[10:23] <bluekuja> during package build
[10:24] <frafu> deb build or during compile? 
[10:24] <bluekuja> frafu, before creating a deb, package have to compile
[10:25] <bluekuja> so this question has no sense
[10:25] <bluekuja> :
[10:25] <bluekuja> :)
[10:25] <bluekuja> frafu, anyway you'll see how pbuilder works!
[10:25] <bluekuja> when ready...just do sudo pbuilder build app-name-version.dsc
[10:26] <frafu> yes, it compiles on my machine and I noted all the -dev i had to install
[10:26] <bluekuja> of course, --basetgz option is valid here too
[10:26] <bluekuja> if needed
[10:26] <bluekuja> cool
[10:26] <bluekuja> :)
[10:28] <frafu> but these are the headers needed for the compilation. Will the dependencies of the compiled package be automatically deduced from the headers? 
[10:55] <frafu> bluekuja: I have to leave no; it is getting late here. Many thanks for your help; I understand a bit better what is going on. (It still does not find the dev, as if pbuilder still is only looking at main; even though I uncommented COMPONENTS and did an update.) I will give it another try tomorrow. 
[11:00] <apachelogger> ah woooh
[11:00] <apachelogger> ScottK: ping
[11:13] <tsmithe> hmm apt-cache madison shows ubuntustudio-look in the source repository, but i'm wondering why the binaries still haven't shown up...
[11:13] <tsmithe> it's not just an issue on the gb mirror, i don't think
[11:13] <tsmithe> http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/source/ubuntustudio-look seems ominous
[11:14] <man-di_> tsmithe: FTBFS ?
[11:14] <tsmithe> nope
[11:15] <tsmithe> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8327975/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.ubuntustudio-look_0.5_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
[11:19] <geser> tsmithe: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=studio
[11:19] <geser> it sits in the binary NEW queue
[11:20] <tsmithe> ahhh thanks
[11:20] <tsmithe> i had assumed that once it was built, it was published
[11:21] <geser> that's true for known debs
[11:21] <tsmithe> righty
[11:21] <geser> but the first time every deb has to pass the NEW queue
[11:21] <tsmithe> makes sense
[11:22] <superm1> same thing as the source package, it has to pass the NEW queue at first as well
[11:22] <tsmithe> yes
[11:43] <docta_v> my debian package is trying to create a /.deb on install
[11:43] <docta_v> i don't understand why
[11:58] <minghua> docta_v: What do you mean by "create a /.deb on install"?  Do you have /.deb in you package (can be checked by dpkg-deb --contents <your-package>.deb)?
[12:01] <ScottK> apacheLAGger: Dunno what the ping was for, but pong on my way by.  Ping me with the actual question and I might be able to answer later.
[12:04] <apacheLAGger> ScottK: just mailed you :)