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[09:22] <gouki> Hi all. I was wondering if there is someone interested in helping us out with a few changes to a Drupal theme for UbuntuBackstage.org?
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[11:17] <lapo> hi
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[04:49] <lapo> re
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[06:32] <sy135> hey all
[06:32] <sy135> gibt es empfehlungen fr corelDraw umsteiger?
[06:35] <kwwii> inkscape
[06:49] <sy135> okay *g*
[06:49] <sy135> und wech isser
[06:49] <kwwii> nee
[06:49] <sy135> sind hier immer so wenig?
[06:49] <kwwii> ich bin noch da
[06:49] <sy135> ah da isser ja
[06:50] <sy135> was hlst du von ubuntustudio?
[06:50] <kwwii> n'ja...wir reden normaleweise kein Deutsch hier :-)
[06:50] <sy135> ach deshalb *g*
[06:50] <sy135> egal *g*
[06:50] <kwwii> habe ich nie so richtig gesehen
[06:50] <sy135> weiter
[06:50] <sy135> also hast du "nur" ubuntu drauf?
[06:51] <kwwii> neee, ich mache alles
[06:52] <sy135> alles?
[06:52] <kwwii> alle varianten
[06:52] <kwwii> k,x,edu,ubuntu
[06:52] <sy135> was heisst du machsT?
[06:52] <sy135> Du machst Artwork?
[06:52] <kwwii> yupp
[06:52] <sy135> ah verstehe
[06:53] <sy135> ich bin eigentlich ein Win umsteiger
[06:53] <kwwii> ich arbeite fr canonical
[06:53] <sy135> habe aber schon seit anfang diesen jahres nur noch ubuntu drauf
[06:53] <sy135> ne zeitlang kanotiux
[06:53] <sy135> kanotiyx
[06:53] <sy135> kanotix
[06:53] <kwwii> hehe, cool
[06:53] <sy135> ich brauche meinen pc fr internet email office und vor allem photobearbeitung und grafik
[06:54] <sy135> ach canonical ist iniziator von ubuntu oder?
[06:54] <kwwii> inkscape ist gut fr vektor sachen, xara extreme war auch nicht schlecht aber ich weiss nicht wie viel noch dran gearbeitet wird
[06:54] <kwwii> genau
[06:55] <sy135> naja von xara bin ich bissle enttuscht
[06:55] <sy135> inkscape ist oka
[06:55] <sy135> y
[06:55] <sy135> gimp ist super natrlich
[06:55] <kwwii> es fehlt aber vieles und manchen funktionen sind einfach kaputt
[06:55] <sy135> Du muss kurz wech
[06:56] <sy135> ja es gibt halt auch nichtmal kommerziell viel :-(
[06:56] <kwwii> stimmt
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[09:08] <sy135> who's here
[09:08] <sy135> ?
[09:09] <nysosym> here
[09:15] <darkmatter> not me.. this is just a holographic projection
[09:15] <sy135> any sugestions for graphic software?
[09:15] <sy135> any suggestions for graphic software?
[09:15] <sy135> tips?
[09:16] <troy_s> sy135: What is your background?
[09:16] <sy135> corelDraw, Illustrator freehand, photoshop
[09:17] <sy135> gimp is okay!
[09:17] <troy_s> sy135: No I mean artistically
[09:17] <sy135> not much background
[09:18] <sy135> i need software to view and clean photos of my DSLR
[09:18] <sy135> and to draw graphics
[09:18] <sy135> i used photosohop elements and corel draw before
[09:19] <troy_s> sy135: To view photos, you have a pretty wide selection of tools... if you are looking for 16 bits per channel colour, cinepaint is probably the only reliable body in that regard.
[09:19] <sy135> cinepaint?
[09:19] <sy135> commercial?
[09:20] <troy_s> sy135: If you don't fuss about that, you can use just about any viewer for 8 bit viewing.
[09:20] <troy_s> sy135: no.
[09:20] <troy_s> sy135: Cinepaint is the only app that is capable of 16bits per channel currently -- the rest do a downres to 8bits per channel.
[09:20] <sy135> ok i see, what's the difference to gimp?
[09:20] <sy135> its gimp based, isn't it?
[09:20] <troy_s> sy135: I just told you.
[09:20] <troy_s> it was.
[09:20] <sy135> okay
[09:21] <nysosym> troy_s: but no monitor can use 16Bit colors ;)
[09:21] <sy135> i heard that gimp couldnt handle cmyk models?
[09:21] <troy_s> sy135: To be honest, there is probably zero people in the FS world who need 16 bits per channel.
[09:21] <sy135> sure
[09:21] <sy135> *g*
[09:21] <sy135> 16bits per 3 channels perhaps
[09:21] <sy135> *g*
[09:22] <troy_s> sy135: cmyk isn't an end all.  Work it out with your printer.  I wouldn't professionally get ANYTHING printed without proofs and such, and I certainly wouldn't rely on a colour profile.
[09:22] <troy_s> 16 bits per channel
[09:22] <troy_s> where a channel is R/G/B
[09:22] <troy_s> sy135: Most of the other apps will deliver CMYK, but again, without a reliable proofing cycle CMYK is relatively useless too.
[09:23] <troy_s> sy135: In the end, you simply need to test run and tweak.
[09:23] <andreasn> krita should work pretty well with cmyk and 32bit if I recall correctly
[09:24] <sy135> okay thanks troy_s, andreasn and nysosym
[09:24] <sy135> and what's abot vector graphics? only inkscpae and xara?
[09:25] <troy_s> yes
[09:25] <nysosym> inkscape or xara, try it, but xara free has a horrible svg support
[09:25] <andreasn> inkscape works very well, I don't know what happened to the xara development of late
[09:26] <sy135> xara is buggy i think
[09:26] <sy135> but corel is the best i think
[09:26] <sy135> but there is no version to ubuntu :-)
[09:26] <sy135> :-(
[09:26] <troy_s> xara isn't free either and dev has ceased.
[09:26] <nysosym> the best is illustrator :D
[09:26] <troy_s> inkscape can do whatever you want it to.
[09:27] <nysosym> illustrator has a much faster render engine and some other cool stuff (CS3)
[09:27] <sy135> but illustrator is not for linux
[09:28] <troy_s> who the fuck cares
[09:28] <troy_s> find someone who can use it.
[09:28] <sy135> any other ideas?
[09:28] <troy_s> sy135: Inkscape works great... you can do some quite detailed work with it.
[09:28] <troy_s> http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/troy.sobotka/ImageDump/photo#5068722476331584498
[09:28] <troy_s> or traditional linework styled illustration
[09:28] <troy_s> http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/troy.sobotka/ImageDump/photo#5068723588728114178
[09:28] <troy_s> blah
[09:28] <troy_s> there will be far better examples as I am a complete and utter hack, but you get the idea.
[09:30] <nysosym> troy_s: sure, everything is possible, but in illustrator in a much easier way, against inkscape
[09:30] <troy_s> nysosym: I disagree... I have used both.  Inkscape is top shelf in many regards.
[09:31] <troy_s> nysosym: It is merely preference.
[09:31] <troy_s> nysosym: And the willingness to learn I suppose.
[09:32] <sy135> perhaps if anyone who uses these software (ps, illustrtor, etc) ilegally!
[09:33] <nysosym> don't get me wrong, i like inkscape a lot (a good OSX port would be nice), but in my experience i have a good results in a faster way with illustrator
[09:33] <sy135> :-)
[09:33] <troy_s> Whatever.  Use it then.  Yay.
[09:33] <nysosym> sy135: no legal, student discount :D
[09:34] <sy135> i know many people who uses ilegal software and say shit fucking linux and so on
[09:34] <sy135> but if they have to buy for this software they would think in an other way
[09:34] <sy135> i used a student copy of coreldraw x3
[09:34] <nysosym> fully agreed
[09:35] <sy135> but its not compatibel with wine or so
[09:35] <sy135> and i dont want to use win anymore
[09:35] <troy_s> sy135: In the end, most of the bitcher and complainer types aren't worth the skin that they reside in, so don't worry about them.  There is also a lot more to the picture than simply wanting to use a 'tool'.  Historically, great art has always had a political side dish.
[09:35] <sy135> win is a gamers os
[09:35] <sy135> troy_s: agree!
[09:35] <troy_s> sy135: But again, that is only something you would learn through a longer term degree and a good study of contextual art.
[09:36] <troy_s> sy135: 'our' world is ripe for an artistic movement.  It is perhaps a matter of time.
[09:36] <sy135> matter of time! i hope it will be not a longterm
[09:37] <troy_s> andreasn and the boys of Tango are already creating a little revolution of their own with that project, so perhaps more lofty ideals aren't far behind.
[09:38] <sy135> any other software suggestions?
[09:38] <nysosym> troy_s: btw. which digital camera do you use to make your photos?
[09:38] <andreasn> "The Boys of Tango" :)
[09:38] <andreasn> better than "Monkeys on crack" I guess :)
[09:39] <nysosym> sounds like a Song ^^
[09:39] <troy_s> nysosym: I have legacy glass so I have a body that works with them.
[09:39] <andreasn> it sound like a barbershop band or something
[09:39] <troy_s> lol
[09:39] <andreasn> not a bad idea in itself perhaps ;)
[09:39] <troy_s> andreasn: Yeah you just need Don Henley to write you a song.
[09:39] <andreasn> totally
[09:40] <sy135> nysosym:  an ixus V *g*
[09:40] <sy135> no that's just my fun cam
[09:40] <sy135> it's a canon Digital EOS
[09:40] <troy_s> nysosym: I have long used Pentax bodies (thanks to the most consistent mount), so I evolved to the Pentax digital.  I am considering a 1:1 though, which means probably depressingly stepping into Canon's ugly realm.
[09:42] <sy135> what does realm mean?
[09:42] <troy_s> sy135: "world" in a loose sort of way.
[09:43] <troy_s> sy135: Canon has a relatively decent 1:1 body.
[09:43] <sy135> okay i understand
[09:44] <sy135> i'm a newbie in SLR photographis, but i will learn
[09:44] <sy135> you now a software like picasa on unix?
[09:44] <sy135> the picasa port over wine is buggy i thiink
[09:44] <troy_s> sy135: Not understanding.  You want something to library your photos?
[09:45] <troy_s> sy135: FSpot does a good job of that, and the K* folks have a few apps that migrate your photos to an online vendor such as Picassa / Flickr
[09:45] <sy135> you don't know the picasa software?
[09:45] <sy135> fspot i notice
[09:46] <troy_s> sy135: I don't bother with software.  I simply figure out what I want and how to get there then choose the software that will do that -- sometimes it is a few different pieces along the way.
[09:46] <troy_s> sy135: Relying on one piece of software for everything is a little suboptimal for me.  Various bits do various details well.  For example, I would die without imagemagick.
[09:46] <nysosym> troy_s: ahh ok thx, i will start in dslr and i can't decide which company i should use "for life", canon or pentax, on the canon side is the really good eos400d and by pentax k10d. I really difficult decide...
[09:47] <troy_s> nysosym: If you care about things like DoF and such
[09:47] <troy_s> nysosym: Then you are going to want to migrate to a nice 1:1 or medium format camera... if the latter, you are pretty much trapped in HB land.
[09:47] <troy_s> nysosym: as with their history, they are pushing medium format into the digital era.
[09:47] <troy_s> http://www.hasselblad.com/
[09:48] <nysosym> ohh yeah 1:1 is very very nice, but a matter of money ;)
[09:48] <troy_s> nysosym: On practical terms, the contemporary 'viewer' generally will see depth cues associated with standard 35mm limitations -- hence the drive towards a 1:1
[09:48] <sy135> nysosym: i've got the 400d! im really satisfied!
[09:48] <troy_s> nysosym: When you start looking at the DoF, digital really shows its limitations.
[09:49] <sy135> 1:1 means fullformat-chip?
[09:49] <troy_s> nysosym: And the uber-wide zone -- the lenses just don't go into pleasant wide mode.
[09:49] <nysosym> yes
[09:49] <troy_s> sy135: Yes.  standard 35mm aspect ratio.
[09:49] <sy135> sorry i'm german
[09:49] <troy_s> sy135: It only matters because the nature of optics dictate that your depth of field will not be the same for a given frame size.
[09:50] <troy_s> sy135: So even with an equivalent say, 100mm lens in digital land, your circles of confusion will be smaller and therefore you will have a greater depth of field in a sub 35mm format chip.
[09:50] <sy135> for sure
[09:51] <nysosym> sure 1:1 is a option for the future, but at moment is a 1:1 camera in a priceless area
[09:51] <troy_s> nysosym: Actually, the Canon body is very affordable.
[09:51] <nysosym> Eos 5D ?
[09:51] <sy135> nysosym: photographing is not just a work of your camera, think of it!
[09:52] <nysosym> my limit is 1000 incl. optic
[09:52] <sy135> you can make good photos with your mobilephone at all!
[09:52] <troy_s> sy135: Well part of it is... you can't exactly do a rear net or bellows without an slr :)
[09:52] <troy_s> nysosym: Let me do a quick bit of research before I head out... hold on.
[09:53] <nysosym> sy135: sure, but my compact camera has many limitations and i will have all options, these would be possible with a dslr camera with changeable optics
[09:54] <troy_s> nysosym: I think there is a model coming out soon with 1:1 and more consumer priced... IIRC the 5D is the entry level 1:1
[09:54] <troy_s> remember though, when Kodak released the first digital 1:1 camera aeons ago, it was 25 grand :)
[09:55] <troy_s> give it about 6 months and the proliferation of 1:1s should be further along.
[09:55] <nysosym> ok, i will wait :)
[09:57] <nysosym> in these time, i will use my old slr :)
[09:57] <troy_s> nysosym: I would.  I am pretty sure I remember reading about Canon releasing another 1:1 and the other vendors will have 1:1s in that range soon.
[09:57] <troy_s> nysosym: Yeah, or pick up a cheap dSLR body -- they are quite inexpensive these days.
[09:57] <troy_s> nysosym: Especially if you just pick up the body.
[09:58] <troy_s> nysosym: Hell... one of the most successful and prolific music video directors / illustrator / photographer of all time used broken lenses to define his style.
[09:58] <nysosym> troy_s: i need new optics and a new body, my old optics are very used :D
[09:58] <troy_s> nysosym: With literal cracks in the lens.
[09:59] <troy_s> nysosym: Old optics are great!  Experiment with them if you don't care about them any more.
[09:59] <nysosym> troy_s: what is the name of these man?
[09:59] <troy_s> http://www.tlchicken.com/view_story.php?ARTid=3345
[10:00] <nysosym> these pictures are made with broken optics?
[10:00] <troy_s> nysosym:  Won elsies and numerous other awards.  Illustrator, artist, photographer, director...
[10:01] <troy_s> nysosym: Most of his award winning videos were shot with broken lenses
[10:01] <troy_s> nysosym: The cleft in the lens -- a deep crack or something -- leaves a strange 'blur' in the area that moves to pure sharpness...
[10:01] <troy_s> let me see if i can find you a sample
[10:01] <troy_s> (utube flash)
[10:02] <troy_s> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=380J5LTvokw
[10:02] <troy_s> arguably one of the greatest bits of video photography.  won many many awards.
[10:03] <troy_s> another stunning bit of work from mahurin
[10:03] <troy_s> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrDQyNwVOQg
[10:03] <nysosym> ohh Metallica i love it :D
[10:04] <troy_s> i hate metallica, but that video is absolutely amazing.
[10:04] <troy_s> beautiful photography
[10:05] <troy_s> there is one more that might interest you
[10:05] <troy_s> an upandcomer
[10:05] <troy_s> http://www.claudiomiranda.com/perfectmov.html
[10:05] <troy_s> claudio miranda
[10:05] <troy_s> _stunning_ photography in that work .
[10:05] <troy_s> very matt mahurin influenced too as you can see.
[10:06] <nysosym> troy_s: i can see a little bit of math in your photos on picasa web ;)
[10:07] <troy_s> nysosym: some of my music video photography is up on my blog
[10:07] <troy_s> nysosym: not terrific stuff in there as generally artists and fecking heads of companies such as Universal get involved... which is why i have so much respect for photography that ends up as amazing as mahurin's or miranda's work.
[10:09] <sy135> cool links
[10:09] <sy135> i've bookmarked them
[10:09] <sy135> thanks for helping me
[10:09] <sy135> will be back soon!
[10:09] <sy135> have a good time!
[10:09] <nysosym> yes, have also a good time ;)
[10:10] <nysosym> troy_s: where are your blog?
[10:13] <nysosym> this one?
[10:13] <nysosym> http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/
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