/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/07/11/#ubuntu-mythtv.txt

=== geek_ [n=geek@ool-4354af97.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-mythtv
geek_hey guys12:31
geek_whenever i change a setting in mythtv-setup12:32
geek_it doesn't show the change12:32
geek_like when i add a new capture card12:32
geek_then click finish12:32
geek_it doesn't show the capture card12:32
geek_what is the problem?12:32
superm1geek_, corrupted database?12:33
foxbuntu_superm1: hows it goin?12:34
superm1ok12:34
foxbuntu_hows the code coming along12:41
superm1i'm still at work12:41
superm1haven't touched today12:41
foxbuntu_oh12:42
foxbuntu_I just hit my chair12:42
foxbuntu_I think its bad when I left today...I was the last one there..and i am the consultant12:42
superm1that is bad.12:44
superm1foxbuntu_, did you get my pm?12:46
superm1or no12:46
foxbuntu_yea12:46
superm1ook12:46
foxbuntu_I just saw it12:46
foxbuntu_thats awesome...I will have to check it out12:47
foxbuntu_this is my windows machine12:47
foxbuntu_i will look into it12:48
superm1http://www.silverex.org/news/12:48
foxbuntu_got it12:48
foxbuntu_lmao12:50
foxbuntu_that blender shredded that phone12:51
foxbuntu_thats awesome12:52
foxbuntu_brb12:54
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foxbuntuok superm1 I am on X-chat 2 now12:57
superm1your registered with nickserv right?12:57
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varun0is mythbuntu 7.10 stable enough for general usage?02:10
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geek_yay i got it to work02:12
geek_i thought it was gonna be impossible02:12
geek_got my ati card to work with my tv tuner and mythtv02:13
geek_finally02:13
varun0geek_: what version of mythbuntu are you using?02:13
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geek_the newest02:13
varun07.1?02:13
geek_ya02:14
geek_had trouble configuring everything because i have ATI card02:14
varun0ah02:14
varun0yea02:14
varun0I've had horrible experiences with ATi02:14
geek_ATI cards are not recommended at this point in time. ATI currently does not support running MythTV on their hardware, and have no timeline for when this might change.02:15
geek_after i read that02:15
geek_i thought there was no hope02:15
geek_wow, it feels really good when i finally get something to work02:15
varun0geek_: heh.....yea.......know the feeling. Congratulations! :-)02:16
tgm4883_laptophttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/+spec/miguel is this for real?02:19
foxbuntuthats insane02:24
a5benwilliscan anyone help me whith the commands to repair my eit cache table in mysql?02:28
tgm4883_laptopthats what I was thinking02:28
foxbuntuit would be much easier to have phpmyadmin o do it02:29
foxbuntusudo apt-get update && apt-get install phpmyadmin02:30
foxbuntuthen you can access your DB with a WebUI with functions to do repairs and such02:31
foxbuntuwith just a web broswer...http://localhost/phpmyadmin or http://you-mythbuntu-ip/phpmyadmin from another machine on your network02:32
a5benwillisargh02:40
a5benwilliscant get into phpadmin either02:41
foxbuntuwhat userid did you use to login?02:41
foxbuntuor you cant get into the it at all02:41
foxbuntu?02:41
a5benwilliscant get into it02:41
a5benwilliscant even see it02:41
foxbuntudo you get an error when you try to access it?02:42
a5benwillisits installed though02:42
a5benwilliscant see the directory02:42
a5benwillisif I type the path it says not found02:42
foxbuntuwell it should be in /var/www/phpmyadmin02:42
a5benwillisnot there02:43
foxbuntuis this a frontend or backend or both?02:43
a5benwillisboth02:43
foxbuntudid you chose to install mythweb when you setup mythbuntu?02:43
a5benwillisyes02:43
a5benwillisits there02:43
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foxbuntuand phpmyadmin had no errors after the apt-get?02:45
a5benwillisnone02:45
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a5benwillishow can i remove it completely02:46
foxbuntuapt-get remove --purge phpmyadmin02:46
foxbuntuwhy do you need to reapir the cache table?02:47
a5benwillisgetting an error in mythbackend.log02:47
a5benwillisTable './mythconverg/eit_cache' is marked as crashed and should be repaired02:48
foxbuntuok02:48
a5benwillisfinally!02:51
a5benwillishad to reinstall02:51
a5benwillisthen purge02:51
foxbuntuok02:51
foxbuntustrange02:51
foxbuntudid you try before?02:51
a5benwillisthen reinstall it again to get it to create the files in var/www02:51
a5benwillisnow, what do I do in there to repair the table?02:52
foxbuntudid you get into it?02:52
a5benwillisyes02:52
foxbuntuclick the drop down for "Databases"02:52
a5benwillisgot the same error on the eit_cache table02:52
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foxbuntuand select mythconverg02:53
a5benwillisdid02:53
foxbuntuclick the check box next to eit_cache02:53
foxbuntuhen scroll to the bottom...there is a drop down for actions "Repair"02:53
foxbuntuand it should repair the table and give you a status02:54
a5benwillisdont see actions02:54
a5benwillisfound it02:54
a5benwillisall fixed now02:55
foxbuntugood02:55
a5benwillisthanks alot man.. wondered why EIT stopped working02:55
foxbuntuthat is a whole lot easier than doing it from the mysql command line02:55
a5benwillisno kidding02:56
a5benwillisneeded phpmyadmin working anyway02:56
foxbuntuindeed02:56
foxbuntuopenMedia, how are things with you03:08
foxbuntu?03:08
OpenMediaHiya.. Busy trying to do "real work"03:10
OpenMediaHows the ivtv card these days03:10
foxbuntugood..has a gitter now and then...but I think that acutally might just be my slack ass cable provider03:12
foxbuntuthanks for that tip03:12
foxbuntui hear ya on real work03:13
OpenMediaHey no worries. I've hit that one myself.03:13
foxbuntuI think we should add a cron job to run db work once a week or something...keep the overhead walking down03:18
foxbuntunot walking03:19
foxbuntulol03:19
foxbuntudoing too many things at once03:19
OpenMediaWhat DB walking are you talking about.03:19
foxbuntuI just meant to keep the overhead down03:19
foxbuntuin mythconverg03:19
OpenMediaI'm surprised at all of the DB errors you guys keep talking about.03:20
foxbuntunot really an error...but it can cause them03:20
foxbuntuI want to sit down and try to pull some better performace out of db...but I need to model it and see what I could do about it03:22
OpenMediaThe schema is hardly complex.03:22
foxbuntui know03:22
OpenMediaHave you played with dbvis ?03:22
foxbuntuno03:22
OpenMediaJava app, but great for reversing a DB schema03:22
foxbuntulooks like it03:24
foxbuntugrabbing a copy now03:24
foxbuntuthanks for the idea03:26
foxbuntuagain03:26
foxbuntustrange though it wont connect to my mythbox...and he error is returning like it trying o connect to localhost03:30
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foxbuntusuperm1, hey03:42
superm1good evening03:42
foxbuntusuperm1, I shouldnt have to add my other ip's to access my sql from my windows box should I, since I have other myth boxes on it03:43
superm1everything on the same subnet should already be able to03:43
superm1there is a permissions line in the postinst of mythtv-database that should handle it03:43
foxbuntuthats what I figured03:43
foxbuntuhmm03:44
foxbuntuI wonder if its because my root doesnt have a password03:44
superm1what are you trying to do?03:45
foxbuntuOpenMedia suggested a tool to do DB modeling...and I was going to try it out03:46
superm1DB modeling?03:46
superm1oh to try to find a better way to store the DB?03:46
superm1for better speed03:46
foxbuntuyea03:46
superm1ah that'd be pretty nifty03:47
foxbuntuindeed03:47
superm1if you want to give root a password do it like this:03:47
superm1sudo dpkg-reconfigure mysql-server-5.003:47
superm1followed by03:47
superm1sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-database03:47
foxbuntuanother thing we might add is a cron job to run like once every other week to do a db optimize on the backend03:47
superm1well that is supposed to be automatic in 0.21 i believe03:48
superm1i thought i overheard that somewhere03:48
superm1laga,maybe03:48
foxbuntuthat would be great03:48
foxbuntuI do mine about every three weeks and it seems to keep things smooth03:48
superm1my box i've not needed to ever03:49
superm1things appear to be fine as is03:50
foxbuntubut you run a frontend backend config which helps alot03:50
foxbuntubut you should check out the db overhead you have03:51
foxbuntuI bet its huge03:51
foxbuntuProduct:  DbVisualizer Free 6.003:51
foxbuntuBuild:  #1247 (2007/07/09 19:06)03:51
foxbuntuJava VM:  Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM03:51
foxbuntuJava Version:  1.5.0_10-b0303:51
foxbuntuJava Vendor:  Sun Microsystems Inc.03:51
foxbuntuOS Name:  Windows XP03:51
foxbuntuOS Arch:  x8603:51
foxbuntuOS Version:  5.103:51
foxbuntuAn error occured while establishing the connection:03:51
foxbuntu   Type: java.sql.SQLException   Error Code: 1045   SQL State: 2800003:51
foxbuntuMessage:03:51
foxbuntu   Access denied for user 'root'@'192.168.1.131' (using password: YES)03:51
superm1!pastebin | foxbuntu03:52
ubotufoxbuntu: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)03:52
foxbuntuthere is my error03:52
foxbuntu...03:52
foxbuntufine03:52
foxbuntuin the future I will patebin it03:52
superm1its java based  - why not just run it on a jvm on linux then?03:52
superm1what user name are you providing for root?03:52
superm1*password03:52
superm1none?03:52
foxbunturoot03:52
superm1or did yo uhave one set03:52
foxbuntuwith a password03:53
foxbuntuI set it03:53
foxbuntuand verfied it with phpmyadmin03:53
superm1well root might be disabled for anything but 127.0.0.103:53
foxbuntui supposed03:53
superm1'mythtv' is accessible otherwise03:53
superm1elsewhere03:53
superm1so why not just run it on linux?03:53
superm1its a java analyzer03:53
superm1same jvm03:53
foxbuntuI know...but I dont have the linux lappy booted up03:54
superm1so do it via ssh?03:54
foxbuntumeh03:54
foxbuntuyou know me03:54
superm1okay well you either do it via ssh or add permissions for root access remotely03:55
superm1your cal03:55
superm1call03:55
foxbuntugot it03:57
foxbunturoot was added as localhost only03:57
foxbuntuso I added a new user03:57
foxbuntuOpenMedia you are the man, this tool rocks03:59
foxbuntuI sould be able to opimize the schema from this04:00
foxbuntusuperm1: the schema of this db seems to be all done as independant tables04:18
superm1right04:18
foxbuntuI am still looking at the best way to clean up the use of the db04:19
foxbuntusuperm1, it almost seems to me that spliting some of the tables up or making a syncable backend db for use with mythweb seperate of the usual db04:25
superm1foxbuntu, you should be directed this at mythtv devs, not me  :)04:25
OpenMediafoxbuntu: Yeah I've noticed that. There aren't any real hardcoded relationships in the schema.04:25
superm1i'm not going to change the entire SQL backend, whereas they will :)04:25
OpenMediaBest bet might be to consider any simple tuning, indexes etc04:26
foxbuntuwell then what good are you superm1?04:26
foxbuntu:)04:26
foxbuntuwell..I have done some tuning to mine before and not gotten much for result..and after looking deeper into the issue it seems to be a table locking issue causing the speed to slow04:27
foxbuntubecuase inserts take priority over selects04:27
OpenMediaWhat are you finding as the worst offender? I find mythfilldatabase hits my machine hard when its a big update04:28
foxbuntuso while the DB is being modified it will always be slow pulling info in MythWeb or the recordings04:28
OpenMediaWondering if reducing the log level for the SQL db would help04:28
foxbuntuthat would help with performance some04:29
foxbuntubut the real issue seems to be priority04:29
OpenMediaWithin the database?04:30
foxbuntuyea04:30
OpenMediaHave you asked around on the mythtv-users list about optimising it?04:31
foxbuntunot yet...I wanted to have an idea to go off of first04:31
OpenMediaPersonally a lot of the schema stinks, there are a lot of very obvious relationships. I have a feeling a lot of code would break if they were enforced.04:33
foxbuntuindeed04:35
OpenMediaOne reason I default to a dual core with myPVR these days is to avoid the impact of some of the bigger DB updates.04:36
foxbuntuits been slapped in on every version...it doesnt appear to have any real attention to it as long as it works04:36
OpenMediaThey are still considering a move to SQLLite or another system in the future as they don't really need mySQL04:37
foxbuntuyea...MySQL does have alot more overhead than some others...which would help free up memory, but thats sill more like throwing money at the problem04:40
foxbuntuok, heres the scoop05:02
=== diakopter waits for the scoop
foxbuntuMythweb is going to undergo a revamp to ajax in a month or two (the commit to svn at least) and there is some perforamce to be had in tuning the MySQL options. Also SQLLite is out becuase it is tested as being slower than MySQL05:04
=== foxbuntu is relived o get that all out
=== foxbuntu wishes his T key didnt stick
foxbuntuOpenMedia, so my plan is to play with the MySQL options and see if I can improve the overall performace and get superm1 to add it to his favorite part of the MythBuntu install05:06
foxbuntusuperm1,05:20
foxbuntuyou around?05:20
superm1foxbuntu, i'll be back in 15 min05:20
superm1or so05:20
foxbuntukk05:20
OpenMediafoxbuntu: If you get anything good let me know and I'll test on my HW.05:27
foxbuntuI have a good idea lead...I am going to drop it in on my myth and then I will let you know what I did so you can test as well05:28
superm1foxbuntu, okay back05:31
superm1your show was meh05:31
superm1burn notice05:31
OpenMediaHmm Watched episode one of that and I wasn't impressed.05:32
foxbuntuthe second was better05:32
OpenMediaAnyone here watched Meadowlands on Showtime.. Now thats an odd show05:32
foxbuntuwhat about Lil' Bush superm105:32
superm1that was pretty bad i thought05:33
OpenMediafoxbuntu: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Optimizing_Performance#MySQL_Tweaks05:33
foxbuntugive it another show...I didnt really like that last one either05:33
foxbuntuhttp://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29432/05:45
foxbuntusomeone tell me what I am missing here05:45
foxbuntuwell that seems to help a good ammount05:52
foxbuntunot exactly those settings but I figured out hom much ram the db actually needs and all the buffers were too small05:53
foxbuntuOpenMedia, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29433/, see at the bottom where I added the MythBuntu Tuning section05:58
foxbuntuit looks like it is making a good bit of difference with Mythweb06:00
foxbuntusuperm1, did you catch that?06:00
OpenMediafoxbuntu: Whats the impact to the memory use of the mysql db?06:08
superm1foxbuntu, if you get a good set of parameters that work, they can actually be applied to the regular mythtv packages06:08
superm1there is an easy architecture to add such things in place now06:08
foxbuntuMySQL server is using about the same about of ram, but under high usage it will be allowed up to ~40M more than before06:10
foxbuntuand than has seemed to help MythWeb out alot06:11
foxbuntuas for MythFrontend...the wife has the TV tied up so I can't test it yet06:13
foxbuntuOtherwise I am liking this config for it06:15
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foxbuntuget a couple more test backends going on this and see what results everyone else has06:19
foxbuntuOpenMedia you up to get one of these machines in testing?06:20
foxbuntusuperm1, how would I go about sending a config file change such as this in to the MythTV packages? (After testing has been completed)06:21
superm1dont worry about the how, its pretty straightforward06:22
OpenMediaI'll have a try later if I get a chance. Still in "real work" mode, and the test backend is busy running tests.06:22
OpenMediaI've logged it in my trac system as a todo for the next round of testing.06:24
foxbuntuok06:25
foxbuntuI will play with it alot more over the few days and see how the results are affected by those settings06:26
foxbuntumy recordings menu does appear faster as well06:30
foxbuntusuperm1, so how many dl's have you seen so far on the iso?06:42
superm1havent watched06:42
foxbuntuoh06:43
foxbuntuyour server is slow tonight06:47
foxbuntuonly pull 400k tonight06:47
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clarkey Hi wondering if anyone could help trying to set up a MythTV box nearly all done all that is left is to get the remote working (some of the buttons work ie. numbers and left right up down but the others don't) I have tried to set up lirc but get errors any one that could help? spent all day trying to work this out i am relatively new to linux so its a hard one and any help would be very appreciated06:54
clarkeyPs Using Ubuntu Feisty06:54
foxbuntuhave you used the Wiki?06:54
clarkeyon setting up lirc06:55
foxbuntuyes06:55
clarkeyyea06:55
clarkeyi get down to setting up lircd.conf with irrecord06:55
foxbuntuhttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/Install_Lirc_Feisty06:55
foxbuntuthat one?06:55
clarkeyyea06:56
foxbuntuwhich remote?06:56
clarkeyCompro06:56
clarkeythe one that comes with the videomate DVB-T30006:58
foxbuntuok06:58
foxbuntuwhat do you get for errors/results?07:00
clarkeyirrecord gives : irrecord: could not init hardware (lircd running ? --> close it, check permissions)07:00
clarkeysudo modprobe lirc_gpio gives: irrecord: could not init hardware (lircd running ? --> close it, check permissions)07:01
superm1clarkey, i doubt that second output07:03
superm1when you modprobe lirc_gpio07:03
superm1it should be something different than that07:03
clarkeyand when i look up dmesg it says: [  676.108000]  cx2388x v4l2 driver version 0.0.6 loaded07:05
clarkey[  681.980000]  lirc_gpio: Unknown symbol bttv_get_cardinfo07:05
clarkey[  681.980000]  lirc_gpio: Unknown symbol bttv_get_gpio_queue07:05
clarkey[ 2207.604000]  lirc_gpio: Unknown symbol bttv_get_cardinfo07:05
clarkey[ 2207.604000]  lirc_gpio: Unknown symbol bttv_get_gpio_queue07:06
clarkeydoes that give you any clues07:06
clarkeycopied it straight from the terminal07:06
clarkeyohh sorry07:06
clarkeymusnt have copied brb07:06
clarkeyFATAL: Error inserting lirc_gpio (/lib/modules/2.6.20-15-generic/misc/lirc_gpio.ko): Unknown symbol in module, or unknown parameter (see dmesg)07:06
superm1right07:07
superm1okay thats what i would have expected07:07
clarkeysorry used to being able to use CTRL C07:07
superm1that would mean that a dependency of the driver isn't able to load07:07
superm1try to rebuild the driver i would say07:07
superm1per hte directions at the bottom of that wiki page07:07
clarkeykk ill give it a try07:09
clarkeyam i supposed to remlace 'uname -r' with something07:10
clarkey?07:10
superm1just like this07:11
superm1`uname -r07:11
superm1`uname -r`07:11
superm1with the dash next to your 1 key07:11
clarkeyahh07:12
clarkeydid that all tried irrecord and got the same error07:17
clarkeygot some message with sudo /etc/init.d/lirc restart saying:07:17
clarkeyStopping lirc daemon: lircmd lircd.07:17
clarkey##################################################07:17
clarkey## LIRC IS NOT CONFIGURED                       ##07:17
clarkey##                                              ##07:17
clarkey## read /usr/share/doc/lirc/html/configure.html ##07:17
clarkey##################################################07:17
clarkeyStarting lirc daemon:.07:17
clarkeyany more insights?07:21
superm1check if the modprobe works now07:22
clarkeysame gpio error07:23
superm1well i'm not too sure what the cause of that would be offhand then07:24
superm1you might want to post on the forums07:24
clarkeythanks for your help07:26
superm1sorry couldnt be more help.  good luck07:27
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superm1Daviey,09:28
superm1you here09:28
Davieyhey superm1, briefly09:31
superm1okay i'll just send a mail to the mailing list then09:31
superm1reply at your convenience09:32
Davieynp09:32
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lagasuperm1: it was not me who told you that 0.21 might clean the DB automagically. it was someone in #mythtv, AFAIK. it's not implement yet as fasr as i remember11:17
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pyron84hi guys does anyone know how to setup a ic which is built in in a hauppage hvr 900 usb dvb-t stick ?04:18
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tafkazhi there07:16
tafkazi set up mythtv on my new asus pundit ah207:16
tafkazand now i just cant get the tv-card to work07:16
tafkazi have a twin-lnb here (astra/Hotbird) and a haupauge Nova S-plus07:17
tafkazanyone has some time to help a desperate one ?07:17
tafkazi have tv with kaffeine...so i really think its some prolem i have with myth...07:18
lagajoin #mythtv-de or #mythtv-users07:19
tafkazok i'll do that !07:19
tafkazthanks07:19
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tafkazhi me again....could you please indicate me to mythtv-de again....i cant seem to find it !07:30
tafkazups found it !07:32
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tgm4883I just had an idea for a feature, but not sure who to pitch it to.  Probably the mythtv guys, anyhow I'd like to know what you think.  Basically it would be a plugin for laptops (although it would run on all mythtv boxes).  This plugin would allow you to select some shows on a frontend, then the shows would download to the laptop.  Then while you were away on a trip, in the car, etc, you could bust open mythtv on your laptop09:01
tgm4883and watch the shows you downloaded from your backend.  This would probably require some form of fallback and local database since the master backend would be unavailable.09:01
tgm4883im not sure how feasible this is, but i come up with ideas from time to time09:02
tgm4883anyway, have an errand to run, back in about an hour09:02
lagamaybe this could be archived with an user job09:02
lagathe mythtv devs probably won't like this kind of thing a lot because it looks a lot file sharing09:03
lagadunno what they'd say, though09:03
lagait might be easier to copy the shows and use mplayer09:03
superm1i've copied shows over and used vlc/totem09:04
superm1only problem is you have a lack of comm flagging there09:04
lagahum09:04
superm1so the most ideal thing to do i think09:04
lagayou could cut them before copying09:04
superm1is if you could export a sql file09:04
superm1with all the skippijng and comm flagging info09:04
superm1and then if you provide mythfrontend those two files09:05
superm1it is intelligent enough to sort it out09:05
lagause nuvexport to export that sql file and the recording.09:06
superm1so it would be a matter of teaching mythfrontend to work without a db if its provided those two files as arguments09:06
lagasounds like a fun job09:09
superm1So i'm in the UMC meeting right now, and they had a hard time getting a mailing list too :)09:16
lagaheh09:17
lagaalmost forgot we had a mailing list09:17
superm1laga, no one has responded to my lirc troubles :)09:18
lagai'm gonna read your email now09:19
lagai'll reply later, need to clean the kitchen now09:29
lagabut i'd like so say one thing:09:29
lagathanks for making a mythtv distro that *i* want to use.09:29
superm1:)09:32
superm1cya later then~09:32
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tgm4883So for those that saw it, was my idea good or not so much?12:04
superm1tgm4883, i see it as useful, but likely it would be better implemented upstream12:06
tgm4883thats what I thought12:06
superm1because working out the symantics of a local mysql server would become quite a mess12:06
tgm4883it would work as a plugin, but either way, there would have to be some sort of fallback with the frontend12:07
superm1at the same time it brings up an idea that i've hoped to see implemented somewhere eventually12:07
superm1add a myth:// plugin to vlc12:07
superm1that can learn how to use comm skipping12:07
superm1and such12:07
superm1and within that plugin you can either provide a myth server or a sql file12:08
tgm4883that would be nice12:08
tgm4883i really should install vnc12:08
superm1Chadarius, are you here?12:09
superm1tgm4883, speaking of plugins12:09
superm1anything regarding unofficial plugins?12:09
tgm4883:( not yet, i've been slowly working on it, but I really think I will be able to dedicate a large chunk of time to it by friday12:11
superm1good good12:11
tgm4883I'll need your input on the licensing and such that I have to put in12:11
superm1well worry about the initial packaging concerns and getting it to build correctly for gutsy12:12
superm1i'll help you with licensing once you've got that straightened out12:12
tgm4883yea thats what I am planning on doing,  I ran through the packaging guide you gave me, ran into a problem here and there, but I think i get it12:12
superm1the important part will be to make sure it builds in a gutsy pbuilder, because some things have changed between feisty and gutsy12:13
superm1regarding the naming of myth packages12:13
superm1and versioning and such12:13
tgm4883well i think i got that covered, I set it up per the guide, and it downloaded the gutsy stuff that it needed12:13
superm1another thing you'll want to do is install the newer versions of linda and lintian from gutsy.  they are binary ALL, so you can install them easily on feisty if you grab the gutsy versions from packages.ubuntu.com12:14
tgm4883will do12:15
superm1the gutsy versions catch a lot more problems, (as I learned, and have a few things to fix in the myth packages)12:15

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