[12:33] <corevette> is there a reason why when i do a sudo apt-get install fluxbox   that it doesn't show up of sessions i can choose from?
[02:09] <MrFeetio> is the 7.10 kernel tickless?
[02:15] <pwnguin> yes
[02:49] <Belboz99> Hey all, I downloaded Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon the other night, and when I went to load it up as a live CD it couldn't get into the GUI, I resolved about 2 or 3 issues, but that still didn't solve the whole problem.
[02:49] <Belboz99> I'm on an AsRock 775_Dual-VSTA mobo with a C2D E6300 and a 6800GT AGP (Nvidia),  I was attempting to load the 64 bit version of Tribe 2
[02:50] <RAOF> How did it fail?
[02:50] <Belboz99> It would give an error upon attempted login through GDM
[02:51] <Belboz99> it said that xserver (IIRC) was attempting to use setuid or getuid and that was no longer allowed by Gnome
[02:51] <Belboz99> I also tried KDM, which just dropped to the console, no error output whatsoever
[02:52] <Belboz99> startx failed in the same way as KDM
[02:52] <Belboz99> blinked 3 times and then back to the command line :(
[02:58] <Belboz99> Welcome back RAOF
[02:58] <Belboz99> did you get my response?
[02:58] <RAOF> No, sorry.  Stupid keyboard shortcuts!
[02:59] <Belboz99> ah, lol
[02:59] <Belboz99> was it Shift+Backspace?
[02:59] <Belboz99> that kills X in some versions of Compiz and IIRC Beryl too
[03:00] <Belboz99> don't know why, I have a nasty habbit of hitting shift+backspace while backspacing uppercase characters :-P
[03:00] <RAOF> No.  And that's an XGL bug :)
[03:00] <Belboz99> lol, I must have hit shift+backspace 20 times in a single hour one day, drove me absolutely nuts!
[03:01] <Belboz99> especially when you're coding or writing up a long-winded technical post with lots of bbcode :-P
[03:02] <Belboz99> okay, anyway, it had an error upon attempted login
[03:02] <Belboz99> something about xserver or something trying to use setuid or getuid, which is no longer allowed by Gnome
[03:02] <RAOF> Eh, not an error.  My perfectly working box says that :)
[03:02] <Belboz99> I then installed KDM, and that just dropped me back to the command line upon attempted login
[03:03] <Belboz99> no error output what-so-ever
[03:03] <Belboz99> startx was the same
[03:03] <Belboz99> blinked three times and back to the old command line :(
[03:04] <RAOF> So your X server is dying.  Probably a nv bug
[03:04] <Belboz99> I also tried nvidia-glx
[03:05] <Belboz99> but I happen to have an AsRock board, which uses AGP, which is highly unusual for a Core 2 Duo system
[03:05] <RAOF> Woah.  Yeah
[03:05] <Belboz99> 6800GT AGP
[03:06] <RAOF> How did you try nvidia-glx?
[03:06] <Belboz99> sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx
[03:06] <Belboz99> it was this morning and I was in a rush and also sleepy, so things are a little foggy :-P
[03:08] <RAOF> Belboz99: Yeah, that alone won't work
[03:08] <Belboz99> you need the kernel source as well, correct?
[03:08] <Belboz99> I've got to ask, why do package names keep on changing?
[03:09] <Belboz99> A while back I must  have spent 6 hours trying to get nvidia-glx to load, only to find out the root of the problem was they changed the name of the kernel source, so I was trying to use an outdated package name.   If only apt would have informed me of the new package name :/
[03:10] <jamman> so how is gutsy?
[03:10] <Belboz99> what is the proper method of installing nvidia-glx, and why isn't the kernel source listed as a dependency?
[03:11] <RAOF> Belboz99: No, you don't need the source.  But you *do* need to re-run the linux-restricted-modules init
[03:11] <jamman> is gutsy very nice?
[03:11] <RAOF> Yes
[03:11] <Belboz99> RAOF: thanks, I've been wondering what that restricted modules thing was all about, I haven't seen any detailed explanations of it
[03:12] <jamman> RAOF, how nice??? :)
[03:12] <jamman> RAOF, what is your favorite feature?
[03:12] <RAOF> Belboz99: The restricted thing links the proprietary kernel modules at boot-time, so Ubuntu doesn't need to distribute the pre-built binaries
[03:13] <RAOF> jamman: Working compiz-fusion by default?
[03:13] <Belboz99> RAOF: I've got a Fiesty system sitting in the other room, it can't seem to find the nvidia kernel module, how do I fix that?
[03:13] <Amaranth> RAOF: Working compiz by default :)
[03:13] <RAOF> Amaranth: Oh, ok :)
[03:14] <jamman> RAOF, OOOHHHH!!! cool. probably wont work on a 500 mhz laptop with a neogeo with 16 meg of memory.
[03:14] <jamman> no compiz-fusion? and how is that?
[03:14] <Amaranth> compiz-fusion is some addons for compiz
[03:14] <Amaranth> compiz is the main thing
[03:14] <jamman> havent got my "good"-ish one ubuntufied yet.
[03:14] <RAOF> It's in universe, so not installed by default
[03:14] <jamman> any other good features?
[03:14] <Amaranth> RAOF: eh?
[03:14] <DanaG> They should've called it something else, like compiz-with-a-cherry-on-top
[03:15] <jamman> lol. i like it.
[03:15] <jamman> what are the features in compiz-fusion?
[03:15] <Amaranth> RAOF: The tribe-2 CDs couldn't have been made if compiz-fusion stuff was in universe
[03:15] <DanaG> because the name "compiz-fusion" doesn't clearly imply "compiz, with extra stuff as the 'fusion'."
[03:15] <RAOF> Oh.
[03:15] <jamman> what?
[03:15] <RAOF> I need to check apt-cache policy more often :)
[03:16] <jamman> any other good features?
[03:16] <DanaG> cube-reflect is cool.
[03:16] <Amaranth> jamman: wall, expo, animation
[03:16] <RAOF> New gnome is always good
[03:16] <Amaranth> those are the main things we get from compiz-fusion
[03:16] <jamman> wall, expo, animation?
[03:16] <jamman> RAOF, not if you use kde ;)
[03:17] <jamman> oh well, kde4 and amarok 2 will be out by the stable release.
[03:17] <RAOF> jamman: There's no accounting for taste :P
[03:17] <DanaG> Expo  "Apple's Spaces"
[03:17] <jamman> RAOF, i use gnome, just kde is more customizeable.
[03:17] <jamman> the Expo sounds cool.
[03:17] <Amaranth> jamman: they won't be in gutsy
[03:17] <DanaG> er, Apple's "Spaces"  <== note the moved quote mark.
[03:17] <RAOF> jamman: But won't be used in Gutsy.  Although it will be parallel installable
[03:17] <Amaranth> jamman: kde4 will be gutsy+1 or later as the default
[03:18] <Amaranth> oh, and only ubuntu is doing compiz by default, kubuntu has decided to wait for kwin_composite
[03:18] <jamman> RAOF, NO!!! amarok 2 wont! dang!
[03:18] <jamman> oh well, if its stable, source time!
[03:19] <RAOF> Fair enough, too.
[03:19] <Amaranth> well, they'll probably have a repo for it on kubuntu.org
[03:19] <jamman> Amaranth, that is a good point.
[03:19] <jamman> kwin_composite, Amaranth ?
[03:20] <Amaranth> kwin in kde4
[03:20] <DanaG> Repo where?
[03:20] <DanaG> What exactly is amarok2?
[03:21] <jamman> DanaG, a music player.
[03:21] <jamman> DanaG, i take that back. THE BEST MUSIC PLAYER!
[03:21] <DanaG> I use Amarok, but what's different about '2'?
[03:21] <jamman> DanaG, better?
[03:21] <jamman> DanaG, just like kde4 will be.
[03:21] <jamman> Amaranth, is that like compiz/beryl/compiz-fusion?
[03:22] <Perdente> so when is kde4 coming out exactly?
[03:22] <jamman> i thought right before gutsy.
[03:22] <jamman> let me check...
[03:22] <Perdente> oh
[03:23] <jamman> actually, i just remembered. october.
[03:23] <Perdente> do they generally upgrade around the same time?
[03:23] <jamman> Perdente, do what upgrade?
[03:23] <jamman> kde and ubuntu?
[03:23] <jamman> no, unfortantally not.
[03:23] <Perdente> oh ok
[03:24] <Perdente> well I figured not since they move at different paces, but you never know
[03:24] <jamman> Perdente, yeah, if a new kde came out every six months...
[03:24] <Perdente> haha
[03:26] <Perdente> jamman, so I'm kinda new to the whole ubuntu scene how close would you say ubuntu and kubuntu are in terms of.... development..?
[03:27] <jamman> Perdente, kde isn't as... user friendly. the sys apps arent as good, i.e. kubuntu uses adapt rather than synaptic, etc. I LOVE it tho. or do you mean how close are they to each other in closeness to done?
[03:27] <jamman> you suck perdente!
[03:27] <Perdente> huh?
[03:27] <Perdente> what?
[03:28] <Perdente> did I do something?
[03:30] <Perdente> hello?
[03:32] <jamman> Perdente, oh, you left.
[03:32] <jamman> again.
[03:32] <Perdente> phew
[03:32] <Perdente> ok
[03:32] <jamman> it keeps saying you leave, and then you come back.
[03:32] <Perdente> yeah, I switched from my shotty wireless to cable
[03:32] <jamman> i had just barely got done explaining and you left!
[03:32] <Perdente> lol let me guess, I quit right as you... yeap
[03:33] <jamman> so are you using gutsy?
[03:33] <Perdente> If you repeat it I promise I won't leave this time.... ^_^
[03:33] <Perdente> oh
[03:34] <Perdente> lol no, not yet, I'm gonna set it up either tonight or tommorrow morning
[03:35] <Perdente> I just repartitioned my whole harddrive in a way I like more so now I'll probably put gutsy gobuntu... etc on it just to see what's up with em
[03:35] <jamman> gobuntu? which is what?
[03:36] <Perdente> not to put too much into one message but: Thanks to Colin and Evans efforts we now have daily images of a freedom-focused flavour of Ubuntu, Gobuntu. This is a call for developers who are interested in pushing the limits of content and code freedom - including firmware, content, and authoring infrastructure, to join the team and help identify places where we must separate out pieces...
[03:36] <Perdente> ...that dont belong in Gobuntu from the standard Ubuntu builds.
[03:36] <Perdente> errr sorry wrong part
[03:36] <Perdente> a version of ubuntu that's all built on ....
[03:36] <jamman> Perdente, its all good.
[03:37] <RAOF> Wasn't that called "gnewsense"?
[03:37] <Perdente> well originally, but I guess not everyone liked that name
[03:37] <Amaranth> gnewsense is the fsf's 'fork' of ubuntu
[03:38] <RAOF> And is getting re-merged as official in Gutsy?
[03:38] <jamman> Perdente, anyways all built on...
[03:38] <Amaranth> it's a different group working on it, from what i can tell
[03:38] <Amaranth> ompaul seems to be the main guy working on gnewsense
[03:39] <Perdente> all built on proprietary software components
[03:39] <jamman> Perdente, oh. and thats freedom how?
[03:39] <RAOF> Non-proprietary, you mean?
[03:40] <Perdente> you know I'm still figuring that out, but if Mark Shuttleworth says it I believe it
[03:40] <Perdente> RAOF, yeah sorry thanks
[03:41] <jamman> lol. ok. isn't ubuntu all non-proprietary though?
[03:41] <MugginsM> ubuntu contains several proprietary bits like wireless drivers, video card drivers, etc.
[03:41] <RAOF> jamman: nvidia-glx says otherwise :)
[03:41] <MugginsM> they're doing not too bad a job of making it explicit to the users, but they're still there
[03:42] <jamman> RAOF, good point. good point.
[03:42] <jamman> i forgot about that one.
[03:42] <RAOF> Even the ipw3945 uses non-free firmware
[03:42] <jamman> did you guys hear about ati making their drivers open source?
[03:42] <Perdente> ?
[03:42] <MugginsM> jamman: they *say* they will, not sure I believe them
[03:42] <Perdente> no
[03:42] <jamman> ipw3945 is what?
[03:43] <MugginsM> I supect they'll do what nvidia did and release proprietary binary blobs with tiny open source wrappers
[03:43] <jamman> yeah, *SUPPOSEDLY* they are.
[03:43] <RAOF> jamman: The best-supported wifi card
[03:43] <jamman> RAOF, oh. my ralink was supported good. who makes it for future reference?
[03:43] <jamman> 5 minutes til my win 2003 server install is done!
[03:43] <RAOF> jamman: You mean, the ipw3945?  Intel.
[03:44] <jamman> not about the install though, about being excited.
[03:44] <Perdente> so I went to download gobuntu and it is labeled as the gutsy alternate, so does that mean its essentially the same as gutsy other than the pro. software they're taking out?
[03:44] <Perdente> lol
[03:45] <RAOF> Perdente: Yes, that's the point
[03:45] <Perdente> RAOF, I knew that :-/ well then I guess I can mess with that and still be gellin
[03:45] <jamman> lol. nice!
[03:46] <jamman> RAOF, so does it use the same repos as gutsy? (gobuntu this is)
[03:46] <Perdente> do you guys mostly report back problems or fix some of the bugs yourselves? caus I really want to get my hands dirty and all I've done so far is make funny little apps with GTK+2 or gtkmm
[03:47] <jamman> Perdente, better than me.
[03:47] <Perdente> lol, you'd have to see it first :)
[03:47] <jamman> although, i did make a program that let me insert a line into a table into a database. helps me keep track of my eagle project time.
[03:47] <Perdente> ^_^
[03:49] <jamman> yip. fun fun.
[03:49] <Perdente> I don't know my intentions were good, but my follow through lacked a little (still in progress though)
[03:49] <Perdente> I want to make a dreamweaver equivalent for Ubuntu since I heard that we were lacking one
[03:49] <jamman> kool. thats how some of the best apps start.
[03:50] <jamman> Perdente, hopefully it'll make good code.
[03:50] <Perdente> yeah, I figure if I tell everybody about it, someone will do it for me hahahah
[03:50] <jamman> lol. nice.
[03:51] <Perdente> hehe
[03:51] <Perdente> nah, I do want to contribute to Ubuntu code somehow though
[03:51] <Perdente> jamman, I just don't want to mess it up either.. :(
[03:52] <jamman> Perdente, same here. im no programmer though.
[03:52] <Perdente> meh, by choice or just haven't started yet?
[03:53] <jamman> Perdente, just havent started.
[03:53] <jamman> i have made some basic programs on my ti-85 though.
[03:53] <Perdente> sweet I once had a game where the @ symbol had to make it to class on time
[03:53] <jamman> Perdente, thats awesome.
[03:54] <jamman> i made a game where you would steer a ship and you got a score. it even saved the high score.
[03:54] <jamman> a fortune game, lots of fun stuff.
[03:54] <Perdente> lol I thought so because I played it in math and that class was hella boring
[03:55] <Perdente> lol, damn you, its like my ego is on a roller coaster or something
[03:56] <Perdente> well do you want to be on my not yet made/ working on a dreamweaver equivalent program group then?
[03:57] <jamman> Perdente, hell yeah!
[03:57] <jamman> one way to get started on my programming, and i already know html, so yip.
[03:58] <Perdente> lol, alright, umm first though, since I'm probably going to copy and paste shit to get stuff set up, do you have a aim acocunt or something
[03:59] <jamman> Perdente, msn!
[03:59] <Perdente> that works
[03:59] <jamman> kool. jessie at confettiantiques.com
[04:00] <RAOF> Reporting good bugs is extremely worthwhile.  Anything more than that (packaging/bug fixes) is welcome too!
[04:01] <jamman> RAOF, i might have to join the gutsy team man.
[04:01] <jamman> art, or something.
[04:02] <Perdente> here mine is Yuo122986@hotmail.com
[04:02] <RAOF> Go for it.  You only need to start contributing to join the team.  There's nothing formal you have to do
[04:03] <jamman> RAOF, any website managing/creating that needs to be done?
[04:03] <Perdente> RAOF, so just go into one of the irc rooms for the team and offer to help...?
[04:03] <Perdente> lol
[04:04] <RAOF> Perdente: Just start helping :).  How you help depends on what you want to do and are good at.  If you want to help fix bugs, write patches, etc, you probably want to check out #ubuntu-motu
[04:05] <RAOF> Ubuntu-qa is always in need of bug triagers, too, wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad
[04:09] <Perdente> Raof, thanks a bunch, I'll get right on it!  its sad when I'm so clueless I don't even know where to start, but anyway
[04:11] <Perdente> RAOF, quick question if someone is on Kubuntu, what do they have to do to see GTK apps again.. not related to the going to ubuntu-motu, but gotta ask
[04:13] <Perdente> is there a way.. although I guess that would defeat the purpose...
[04:19] <Belboz99> Hey, I'm still having this problem with the nvidia kernel module:
[04:19] <Belboz99> dan@htpc:/lib/linux-restricted-modules$ sudo modprobe nvidia
[04:19] <Belboz99> FATAL: Error running install command for nvidia
[04:20] <Belboz99> crap, wrong channel I guess, this was supposed to be in #Ubuntu :-P
[04:23] <RAOF> Perdente: GTK apps should just work, the same way that QT apps work in Gnome
[04:24] <DanaG> What is ubuntu-laptop-mode?
[04:24] <DanaG> It conflicts with laptop-mode-tools, and thus tries to remove ubuntu-desktop.
[04:24] <RAOF> Interesting.  It's probably new then
[04:26] <DanaG> First release July 5, it looks like.
[04:26] <DanaG> If you aptitude changelog ubuntu-laptop-mode.
[04:36] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and I had to change something to fix my nvidia suspend -- it was broken even without 'nvidia' loaded.
[04:36] <DanaG> save_vbe_state -- changed to false.
[04:36] <DanaG> Save video PCI state -- changed to true.
[04:37] <DanaG> Try that option.
[04:37] <DanaG> It works for me even under Fusion, I believe.
[04:38] <DanaG> SAVE_VBE_STATE=true
[04:38] <DanaG> POST_VIDEO=false # was true
[04:38] <DanaG> SAVE_VIDEO_PCI_STATE=true
[04:38] <DanaG> in /etc/default/acpi-support
[04:39] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/121833
[04:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121833 in linux-source-2.6.22 "LCD backlight turns off when at idle or on battery." [Undecided,New] 
[04:39] <DanaG> A different issue.
[04:43] <DanaG> The report also describes a couple of other things -- my hotkeys don't pop up the OSD.
[04:43] <RAOF> Not for me, either
[04:44] <DanaG> The keys work, and acpid sees them -- but g-p-m does not see them.
[04:45] <RAOF> DanaG: Where do those changes go?
[04:45] <DanaG> Oh, the actual_brightness is what changes upon the hotkey.
[04:46] <DanaG> And if you tail -f /var/log/acpid
[04:46] <DanaG> (I don't remember the exact path)
[04:46] <RAOF> DanaG: No, I mean the SAVE_VBE_STATE et al
[04:46] <DanaG> Oh, /etc/default/acpi-support
[04:46] <DanaG> Oh, and I fixed the incessant nvidia blinking by setting nvagp=0.
[04:47] <RAOF> :)
[04:48] <DanaG> How does PCIe use agpgart anyway?
[04:49] <RAOF> Heh.
[04:50] <Perdente> RAOF, so is anyone else going to go to gobuntu by any chance or should I just buck it up and stick with regular gutsy?
[04:50] <DanaG> What is gobuntu?
[04:50] <Hobbsee> free ubuntu
[04:50] <RAOF> The "no binary blobs" one
[04:51] <DanaG> Shouldn't that be "freebuntu" or "gnubuntu"?
[04:51] <Perdente> lol dejavu
[04:51] <DanaG> "go" makes me think "mobile".
[04:51] <Perdente> it makes so much sense it hurts...
[04:51] <RAOF> And, no.  I'm not going to be using it, because I *like* my hardware support
[04:52] <Perdente> lol good enough for me
[04:53] <DanaG> Gigabit ethernet on a notebook is cool.
[04:53] <Perdente> what is the name of the kubuntu that is in trial mode again?
[04:54] <Hobbsee> gutsy
[04:54] <Hobbsee> trial mode?
[04:56] <Perdente> err nm sorry I'm ignant
[05:22] <teratoma_> what do i do about this:
[05:22] <teratoma_> The following packages are BROKEN: libcurl3-gnutls libcurl4-gnutls
[05:22] <teratoma_> cry?
[05:22] <RAOF> DanaG: In case you're wondering, thai acpi-support change doesn't fix compiz+resume here
[05:23] <mrsno__> read topic teratoma_
[05:23] <teratoma_> sads
[05:27] <mrsno__> nn
[05:29] <Perdente> RAOF: so I got sidetracked, but I looked and I found one program that could be similar called Nvu Web Development
[05:43] <RAOF> Perdente: Yeah, that'd be one.  It's getting rewritten, IIRC
[05:44] <pimp31415> ok
[05:44] <pimp31415> so i can do dual xenons
[05:44] <pimp31415> or dual opterons
[05:45] <SirFord> has anyone been able to get gutsy with KDE 4.0 ?
[05:45] <pimp31415> and the dual fx-something or others
[05:46] <pimp31415> but i cant do dual say qx6600's ?
[05:46] <pimp31415> or dual say amd 6000+'s?
[05:46] <Hobbsee> SirFord: ...it's not released yet
[05:47] <pimp31415> hi Hobbsee ^_^
[05:47] <pimp31415> im in my gutsy
[05:47] <Hobbsee> hi pimp31415
[05:47] <pimp31415> taht blackscreen stuff is back
[05:47] <SirFord> its not?  what the heck did I download?
[05:47] <pimp31415>  pimp31415 / starz
[05:47] <SirFord> 4.0 alpha 2 is out
[05:47] <pimp31415> have you complied it?
[05:48] <SirFord> no but I was reading where I downloaded gutsy from that it was an option
[05:48] <pimp31415> mm
[05:48] <pimp31415> lets look shall we
[05:48] <Hobbsee> it's in gutsy, there's no metapackage yet
[05:48] <pimp31415> *fires up synaptic*
[05:48] <Hobbsee> iirc
[05:49] <pimp31415> anyway so quad core is better than dual duals it seems...
[05:49] <pimp31415> Hobbsee, im looking in synaptic and it does look a bit confusing
[05:50] <pimp31415> for instance kde4libs == version 3.80.3
[05:50] <pimp31415> so is that kde4 or 3.8
[05:50] <pimp31415> say i look at kde-core i see version 5:47
[05:50] <SirFord> would it be easier you think with kubuntu gutsy
[05:50] <pimp31415> and ive no idea what that means
[05:51] <pimp31415> SirFord, ?
[05:51] <pimp31415> its the same repos :P
[05:51] <SirFord> :(
[05:51] <SirFord> well I'll have to play with it I guess
[05:51] <Hobbsee> pimp31415: no, thatd' be the alpha 2.  although why it's .3, i'm not sure
[05:53] <pimp31415> heh ok
[05:53] <pimp31415> !gutsy
[05:53] <ubotu> Gutsy Gibbon is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (7.10). See https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-April/000276.html and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule - Roadmap and specifications: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy - Support in #ubuntu+1
[05:55] <wfarr> Anyone else loving the upgrade with openoffice right now?
[05:56] <pimp31415> wfarr, what did it upgrade?
[05:56] <wfarr> I'm being sarcastic
[05:56] <pimp31415> o
[05:56] <wfarr> dpkg threw me into dep-hell
[05:56] <wfarr> -_-
[05:56] <pimp31415> lol
[05:56] <pimp31415> congradulations
[05:56] <pimp31415> you win a prize
[05:56] <Hobbsee> wfarr: then fix it, or wait for a fix.
[05:56] <wfarr> =P
[05:56] <pimp31415> but untill we figure out what - your awarded 3 internets and 65 googles
[05:56] <wfarr> I'll fix i ;)
[05:57] <pimp31415> um Hobbsee im going to do a dist upgrade and it wants to take out libcurl4-gnutils
[05:57] <pimp31415> what does that thing do anyway?
[05:57] <wfarr> pimp31415, that's expected
[05:57] <wfarr> I guess
[05:57] <wfarr> >_>
[05:58] <wfarr> But uh, I think the trouble might could be version mis-match of a particular package
[05:58] <Hobbsee> pimp31415: that's the plan.  and apt-cache show libcurl*-gnutils will tell you
[05:58] <Hobbsee> curl is just stuffed
[05:58] <pimp31415> mm
[05:59] <pimp31415> hm
[05:59] <pimp31415> does that mean ssl will break? @_@
[05:59] <pimp31415> owell i'll hold off on most of the package upgrades - lets just tell it to do a few :P
[06:02] <wfarr> ah
[06:02] <wfarr> I found the problem
[06:02] <wfarr> There's no theme index in /usr/share/icons/locolor
[06:02] <pimp31415> o?
[06:05] <pimp31415> wfarr, so what do you do to fix that?
[06:05] <wfarr> I just made a quick index.theme
[06:05] <pimp31415> and how did you figure that out?
[06:05] <wfarr> and then dpkg --configure -a
[06:06] <pimp31415> just any old index.theme? say an empty one?
[06:07] <pimp31415> huh
[06:07] <pimp31415> good idea
[06:32] <DanaG> Oh, but one thing -- the new gnome appearance properties breaks on-the-fly font changing.
[06:45] <DanaG> Odd: compiz is running at only 10 FPS.
[06:45] <DanaG> I usually get 60.
[06:48] <DanaG> Oh, and a bunch of the settings descriptions are BLUE, for some reason.
[06:48] <DanaG> And Xorg is absolutely devouring my CPU.
[06:49] <RAOF> Sounds fun!
[06:49] <DanaG> Yup.
[06:50] <DanaG> I wonder whether I should go back to the packaged NVIDIA driver.
[06:51] <RAOF> Oh, your resume fix was predicated on that?
[06:52] <DanaG> Nope.  It turned out that suspend was broken even if nvidia was not in use,
[06:52] <RAOF> :)
[06:52] <DanaG> and even if framebuffer was not in use.
[06:52] <DanaG> I just wanted to use the newer one for better laptop support.
[06:52] <DanaG> Oddly, the crazy CPU usage just appeared today; perhaps I should try restarting X first.
[06:53] <RAOF> Do you know what the "better laptop support" actually *is*?
[06:54] <DanaG> Coolbits, for one, though I don't use it.
[06:54] <DanaG> Also, my display-switch hotkey works; it just doesn't change resolution.
[06:54] <DanaG> And it switches from (internal) to (external) but not to (both).
[06:55] <BHSPitMonkey> coolbits?
[06:56] <BHSPitMonkey> (both) would be a nice feature.
[06:57] <DanaG> You can still manually set clone-mode with nvidia-settings.
[06:57] <RAOF> Also.  "Coolbits"?
[06:58] <DanaG> Overclocking.
[06:58] <DanaG> Or in my case, it'd be "Stop the damn driver from dropping the GPU to low speed, by increasing the lowest speed.:
[07:17] <DanaG> okay, I went back to intel-agp
[07:17] <DanaG> and resume still works.  And now it's faster and doesn't BLINK.
[07:18] <DanaG> So the guides that say to use NvAGP are not necessarily correct.
[07:18] <RAOF> Cool.  How did you do that, again?
[07:18] <DanaG> However, my consoles are corrupt on resume; perhaps I have to disable vbe state saving.
[07:18] <RAOF> My display occasionally blinks
[07:19] <DanaG> Perhaps my GPU is still in low-power mode...
[07:20] <DanaG> Oddly, it's not -- yet I'm only getting 30 FPS in compiz.
[07:20] <DanaG> WTF?  Something just beeped on lid close.
[07:20] <DanaG> Oh, it's gnome-power-manager.  Lovely feature, eh?
[07:20] <RAOF> That'd be g-p-m :)
[07:21] <RAOF> It's annoying when pulseaudio has your PCM master locked at 100%
[07:29] <varka> DanaG: you're sure direct remdering is enabled?
[07:29] <varka> m=n
[07:31] <DanaG> Yeah, it's enabled.
[07:31] <DanaG> Lemme try googleearth -- if that's not slow, I'll have a hint that it might be a Compiz bug.
[07:32] <DanaG> I override pulseaudio to use dmix instead of hw:0
[07:32] <DanaG> .
[07:35] <DanaG> Well, it's not slow, but it sure is eating CPU when I move around.
[07:37] <RAOF> DanaG: Oooh, that seems reasonable.  How? :)
[07:38] <DanaG> Oh, about pulseaudio?
[07:38] <DanaG> Lemme look.
[07:38] <varka> DanaG: what does "glxinfo | grep vendor" say?
[07:38] <DanaG> NVIDIA is working, but it's CPU-eat-ey.
[07:38] <DanaG> aah, with all the static loads, I have this:
[07:38] <DanaG> load-module module-alsa-sink device=plug:dmix:0 sink_name=alsa_output.pci_8086_27d8_alsa_playback_0 device=dmix
[07:39] <DanaG> I don't remember why I have device there twice -- perhaps there's no reason.
[07:39] <RAOF> :)
[07:39] <RAOF> Ta
[07:39] <DanaG> and for sink name, I used the one the hal-detect module already gives it.
[11:25] <heatxsink> hello all, is there documentation somewhere about how to make a dpkg for apache modules?
[11:28] <PriceChild> do you mean... how to package apache modules into .deb's ?
[11:34] <heatxsink> yes
[11:34] <heatxsink> sorry
[11:50] <PriceChild> !packaging | heatxsink
[11:50] <ubotu> heatxsink: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[12:00] <buz> is ipw4965 supported in gutsy?
[12:00] <PriceChild> I "think" it should be...
[12:00] <buz> i'm wondering whether i should get ipw3945 or 4965
[12:01] <buz> draft n probably isnt very useful
[12:12] <crazy_bus> I installed ubuntu on a friends computer who's modem is unfortunalty a dial-up Conexant.  I read that gutsy will have certain winmodems supported out of the box and I was wondering if conexant ones were included as I had quite a lot of diffifuclty in making it work
[12:21] <PriceChild> crazy_bus, gutsy is not ready, stable etc.
[12:21] <PriceChild> don't use it
[12:23] <crazy_bus> I know its not ready.  I was just curious
[01:17] <heatxsink> crap, I can't remember if it was in this channel, but I asked for some documentation on building deb's and I didn't bookmark the links
[01:17] <heatxsink> if someone could re-post that I'd really appreciate it thanks!
[01:19] <mrsno__> heatxsink wiki.ubuntu.com > search for compiling
[01:19] <mrsno__> it will be in there
[01:20] <heatxsink> thank you very muchg
[01:20] <heatxsink> sorry for repeating
[01:24] <gnomefreak> !packaging | heatxsink
[01:24] <ubotu> heatxsink: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[01:24] <heatxsink> gnomefreak:  thank you!
[01:24] <gnomefreak> yw
[01:25] <heatxsink> I guess I could read but is there documentation in there on how I can get my own packages?
[01:25] <heatxsink> err host my own repository for packages
[01:28] <heatxsink> any idea how I would find the maintainer(s) for the apache2 modules?
[01:28] <gnomefreak> heatxsink: in the control file from source.
[01:29] <gnomefreak> heatxsink: apt-get source apache2 its in the debian dir
[01:29] <gnomefreak> heatxsink: or ask in #ubuntu-motu :)
[01:29] <gnomefreak> thats what they are there for
[01:30] <heatxsink> gnomefreak:  thanks again, MOTU is kinda funny
[01:33] <AnRkey> gnomefreak, did the updates today break anything?
[01:34] <gnomefreak> AnRkey: oo.o needs to be rebuilt on debhelper fix once that is in repos
[01:34] <gnomefreak> AnRkey: but other than that same issues as before
[01:34] <AnRkey> ok
[01:35] <AnRkey> my updates crashed completely.
[01:35] <AnRkey> i think i am gonna reinstall and try to reproduce on this box
[01:36] <AnRkey> just logged in again and it just hangs ofter login details are entered
[01:36] <AnRkey> bbl
[01:37] <zorglu_> q. i run feisty and it got a bug in firefox while playing flash video, which makes it coredump, any idea if this bug has been fixed in ubuntu+1 or how i could keep track of the issue ?
[01:38] <gnomefreak> zorglu_: do you have bug report?
[01:38] <zorglu_> gnomefreak: nope, i guess i should look for one :)
[01:39] <gnomefreak>  zorglu_ look for one and give me link if im not here i will look when i get back
[01:39] <zorglu_> gnomefreak: ok, doing it
[01:40] <zorglu_> ok launchpad needs more cpu. this is slow:)
[01:41] <AnRkey> zorglu_, its a sign of a descent OS being worked on :D
[01:41] <onechard> !openoffice.org
[01:41] <ubotu> a free and open source office suite, including word processor, spreadsheet, presentation, vector drawing and database components.  To install: "sudo apt-get install openoffice.org". User help available in #users.openoffice.org
[01:42] <AnRkey> gnomefreak,  sudo apt-get remove openoffice.org* did the trick, i am back in
[01:42] <AnRkey> gnomefreak, when will the OOo packages be fixed?
[01:42] <gnomefreak> AnRkey: yes it will until its fixed
[01:42] <gnomefreak> AnRkey: dont know yet sometime today since the original issue was fixed
[01:43] <AnRkey> ok
[01:43] <AnRkey> i have two boxes here one for stable and one for testing, but i try to keep to the testing to find bugs
[01:43] <zorglu_> gnomefreak: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libflash/+bug/107352 <- this is one bug report about it, but i guess there are many duplicates
[01:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 107352 in libflash "firefox, galeon, konqueror, opera all crashing when viewing flash sites for 4+ videos" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
[01:44] <gnomefreak> zorglu_: give me a few ill look at it
[01:45] <gnomefreak> zorglu_: flash 7 or flash 9? please see apt-cache policy flashplugin-nonfree
[01:45] <zorglu_> gnomefreak: 9
[01:46] <zorglu_> gnomefreak: Installed: 9.0.31.0.2ubuntu1<- aka the one from feisty by default
[01:46] <_4strO> is kubuntu gutsy testable now ?
[01:47] <_4strO> and if yes, is there a way to migrate from fesity ?
[01:47] <gnomefreak> zorglu_: as brian said there isnt much we can do with flash but there is a more important flash issue atm so once that is fixed maybe we get lucky nad it fixes this issue as well
[01:47] <gnomefreak> _4strO: i woudnt use it atm unless you are a developer
[01:48] <zorglu_> gnomefreak: ok i understand, any suggestion on how i could keep track of this? i dev stuff using flash video. and firefox crashing is relatively bothering
[01:48] <_4strO> gnomefreak: nop i'm not a developpeur, i'm a f$ing tester :p
[01:49] <_4strO> so i will follow your advise and stay with my feisty
[01:49] <gnomefreak> zorglu_: not really since im not working on flash at all, find out from #ubuntu-motu more on flash bug and questions about them
[01:49] <zorglu_> gnomefreak: ok thanks for the info :)
[01:50] <_4strO> i supposed that i would be interest when the beta realease will be on
[02:01] <Hobbsee> _4strO: it's not that bad, as long as you can handle dependancies, look at wha tyou're saying yes to, will file bugs, and dont require a fully working system, all teh time
[02:04] <_4strO> Hobbsee: ??? i dont understand
[02:05] <Hobbsee> [21:46]  <_4strO> is kubuntu gutsy testable now ?
[02:05] <_4strO> ha ok :p
[02:18] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: did calc or anyone respin oo.o yet?
[02:20] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: not sure
[02:20] <gnomefreak> k ty
[02:42] <AnRkey> gnomefreak, who and what are you in the grand scheme of things?
[02:42] <gnomefreak> AnRkey: what do you mean?
[02:42] <AnRkey> gnomefreak, you work for canonical? you a dev?
[02:42] <AnRkey> man woman child?
[02:43] <AnRkey> :P
[02:43] <gnomefreak> AnRkey: i dont work for canonical but i work on mozilla apps developing bugs pretty much everything and i package some other apps as well
[02:43] <AnRkey> i c
[02:44] <gnomefreak> btw anyone with n-m issues connecting when logging in is now fixed (cant promise every issue is fixed though)
[02:44] <AnRkey> gnomefreak, who does the network installer?
[02:44] <AnRkey> i am trying to get that working here
[02:45] <AnRkey> feisty is working but gutsy on the same mirror does not
[02:45] <AnRkey> was hoping to trouble shoot with some help
[02:46] <gnomefreak> AnRkey: asac has taken it over for now
[02:46] <AnRkey> what is the best way to find and contact him? irc?
[02:47] <gnomefreak> AnRkey: this week is bad but next week best way is in #ubuntu-mozillateam
[02:48] <gnomefreak> the 16th he should be back, hes here but not here since this is sprintweek
[03:34] <onechard> !openoffice.org
[03:34] <ubotu> a free and open source office suite, including word processor, spreadsheet, presentation, vector drawing and database components.  To install: "sudo apt-get install openoffice.org". User help available in #users.openoffice.org
[03:35] <Hobbsee> onechard: yes, it's broken
[03:38] <calc> should only get another 100 or so bugs before the new ooo is built everywhere
[03:40] <onechard> thanks Hobbsee
[03:40] <Hobbsee> calc: and classy ones like this.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/125528
[03:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 125528 in update-manager "package update-manager failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: SystemError in cache.commit(): E:Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) (dup-of: 125400)" [Undecided,New] 
[03:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 125400 in openoffice.org "[MASTER]  package openoffice.org-common 2.2.1-5ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Fix released] 
[03:43] <calc> Hobbsee: perhaps we should have ability to revoke people's ability to file bugs when they do something like that ;)
[03:44] <calc> intentionally filing duplicate bugs seems like abuse of launchpad to me
[03:44] <Hobbsee> calc: i wish.
[03:47] <calc> there is a difference between being dumb and filing a duplicate and admitting you are filing a much duplicated bug
[03:48] <gnomefreak>  it wouldnt help becasue we have some people that attach crash reports to random bugs (ive seena few people attach same report to over 10 bugs)
[03:48] <gnomefreak> oh and not one was the same as his :(
[03:50] <calc> heh
[03:56] <Hobbsee> calc: heh
[03:56] <Hobbsee> calc: some people are *really* dumb though.  makes me wonder how they found gutsy
[03:56] <Hobbsee> and the forums isnt filled with it, so i'm not sure if it's actually from there.
[03:57] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, people gloating that they're using a dev version, idiots overhearing or being dared to copy, doing so, then getting stuck
[03:57] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: yeah, well.
[03:57] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: i want to break X, just to make them give up :P
[03:57] <Hobbsee> just for a couple of days
[03:58] <elkbuntu> hehe
[04:03] <lamalex> haha
[04:07] <calc> hell i can't even run gutsy on my laptop yet, and i am working on it :)
[04:08] <calc> after hearing of the new amd64 flash though i may try reinstalling amd64 later today
[04:08] <calc> i need flash for my grandcentral account
[04:09] <calc> that reminds me i need to go find mjg and get him to look at my laptop suspend issue
[04:46] <afflux> my mousewheel skips now two windows/tabs/units instead of one since last upgrade
[04:46] <afflux> that's weird
[04:46] <afflux> (logitech mx510 mouse, using evdev driver in xorg.con)
[04:46] <afflux> *conf
[06:00] <DanaG> Odd: KNetworkManager doesn't bring the wired ethernet interface back up after suspend.
[06:01] <mrsno__> bug 109703
[06:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 109703 in xorg "[nvidia-glx]  X module Int10 fails to initialize - Feisty" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109703
[06:01] <mrsno__> just a question about backporting, this is confirmed as fixed in gutsy but have someone in pm that is affected in feisty
[06:02] <mrsno__> will it be backported or will they wait until gutsy is released?
[06:29] <pvandewyngaerde> damnit, openoffice fails to update
[06:34] <Hobbsee> pvandewyngaerde: and if you report it, i'll shoot you.  see the /topic
[06:34] <Hobbsee> pvandewyngaerde: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/125400
[06:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 125400 in openoffice.org "[MASTER]  package openoffice.org-common 2.2.1-5ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Fix committed] 
[06:34] <Hobbsee> pvandewyngaerde: there are ~50 duplicates of it at the moment
[06:35] <Jaymac> why don't people check before submitting?
[06:35] <Jaymac> it couldn't be easier with launchpad
[06:36] <Hobbsee> Jaymac: lazyness, i think
[06:36] <Hobbsee> Jaymac: not thinking that someone actually has to go around and mark all the dupes that they couldnt be bothered to do
[06:36] <Hobbsee> Jaymac: or not actually reading what they're filing
[06:36] <Hobbsee> either that, or they really have no idea about waht they're doing - some of those dupes are mindblowingly dumb
[06:37] <Jaymac> the internet problem has been reported quite a lot too i guess
[06:38] <Hobbsee> Jaymac: you must be referring to the spam problem!
[06:39] <Hobbsee> any *particular* internet problem?
[06:39] <Hobbsee> or just the internet in general being a problem?
[06:39] <Jaymac> THE internet not connecting on startup problem
[06:39] <Hobbsee> ah yes, that one.
[06:39] <Hobbsee> knetworkmanager svn has fixed that.  dunno about nm-applet and such, though
[06:40] <Jaymac> nm-applet not yet
[06:41] <dr_evil> my computer had internet preinstalled ;>
[06:41] <Jaymac> all of it?
[06:41] <Jaymac> ;)
[06:41] <Hobbsee> dr_evil: *grin*
[06:42] <dr_evil> sure, everything
[06:42] <Jaymac> in that case you've got quite a lot of stuff you shouldn't have on your box... arrest him!
[06:42] <Hobbsee> Jaymac: i could just upload some crack, and wipe his harddrive.  that's simpile
[06:42] <Hobbsee> -i
[06:44] <Hobbsee> Jaymac: twitch @ #ubuntu
[06:45] <Hobbsee> ze compiler is not ze text editor.  there is no all in one, under gnome, to my knowledge
[06:45] <Jaymac> I know
[06:45] <Jaymac> I giggled at that
[06:46] <Jaymac> He has been asking how to install a C++ compiler for about an hour
[06:46] <Hobbsee> ouch
[06:46] <Jaymac> so h e got it installed, and now wants to know how to use it to write C++ programs
[06:46] <Hobbsee> next he'll be asking how does he get includes in there
[06:49] <dr_evil> btw, I've never used encryption, but is there some easy to install harddisk encryption support?
[06:50] <dr_evil> for those who can read german, quoting BKA-Prsident Jrg Ziercke: "Die gesamte Kommunikation der Straftter muss berwacht werden. Damit wir mit ihnen auf einer Augenhhe sind, mssen wir vor der Verschlsselung auf der Festplatte sein"
[06:51] <Jaymac> translated meaning?
[06:52] <Jaymac> I can recognise a few words, but not enough to make sense of it :)
[06:53] <dr_evil> he basically says,
[06:54] <dr_evil> they are planning to install trojan backdor software on offender computers (big debate in germany), and he says that to monitor the whole communication off all offenders, their osftware need s to be installed on the harddisk before any encrpytion is installed
[06:55] <lamalex> offender of what'
[06:55] <dr_evil> (which shows how stupid some of those politicians are)
[06:55] <dr_evil> anything
[06:55] <lamalex> so if you break a law they install rootkits on your computer?
[06:57] <dr_evil> yes, thats the plan by our government. it's called Bundestrojaner in german press
[07:07] <aquarius> Is this where I ask about issues with the gobuntu installer?
[07:28] <aquarius> When trying to install yesterday's gobuntu nightly, it fails on the "Select and install software" step. I've checked the CD for defects and there are none. VC4 shows "Couldn't find task NN", where NN is all of "minimal", "standard", "ubuntu-desktop".
[07:40] <Kain0> Anyone know if gutsy will have tracker integrated with nautilus?
[07:41] <lamalex> is that in upstream of nautilus?
[07:53] <Tretle> " (18:41:16) Kain0: Anyone know if gutsy will have tracker integrated with nautilus? " if your talking about njpatels work he hasn't even started yet :(
[07:53] <Tretle> whoops.... your gone
[07:53] <Tretle> :D
[09:18] <mx-zoom> hey
[09:18] <mx-zoom> is firestarter still working in gutsy? I heard it had some problems with the kernel since 2.6.21
[09:27] <markrian> Just installed gutsy, and noticed that the module that I've used for years for my wireless card, orinoco_pci, isn't built in linux-image-2.6.22. Is there somewhere with an explanation of why it was removed?
[09:35] <Jordan_U> markrian, I know that a lot of drivers have been replaced with new ones or the devicescape system
[09:38] <markrian> Jordan_U: is that an upstream change, or not? And how do you know this - perhaps where you found out would help me
[09:40] <lontra> does the live cd installer work on tribe #2?
[09:41] <Jordan_U> markrian, Yes that is an upstream change, heard about it from random gossip :)
[09:41] <Jordan_U> lontra, It is supposed to on tribe releases
[09:42] <lontra> Jordan_U, ok ... i've been running debian unstable and i'm contemplating trying out gutsy ... some of my hardware doesn't work in feisty but works flawlessly in sid except my synaptics mouse
[09:42] <markrian> Jordan_U: That's pretty odd. Although thinking about it, I think my problem isn't due to that, since the sub-drivers orinoco and hermes exist in 2.6.22, just not orinoco_pci (which depends on the previous two)
[09:42] <markrian> How odd...
[09:43] <Jordan_U> lontra, My synaptics mouse works great in Feisty and even has two fingered scrolling in Gutsy :)
[09:44] <lontra> Jordan_U, mine freezes and jumps all around the screen :)
[09:44] <lontra> hopefully it doesn't in gutsy
[09:44] <lontra> i just filed a bug upstream with kernel 2.6.22
[09:45] <Jordan_U> !synaptics | lontra Maybe this will help
[09:45] <ubotu> lontra Maybe this will help: For a comprehensive Synaptics Touchpad guide, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticsTouchpad
[09:49] <lontra> Jordan_U, do you know what that SHMConfig is suppose to do?
[09:49] <Tretle> !pastebin
[09:49] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[09:50] <Jordan_U> lontra, No
[09:51] <Tretle> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29694/
[09:51] <Tretle> can someone help with this
[09:52] <Tretle> sorry wrong room
[10:00] <HHP2K> Hello?
[10:01] <pwnguin> hi
[10:04] <markrian> How do you search through ubuntu mailing list archives?
[11:05] <Jordan_U> Leftmost, update-manger -c -d
[11:06] <Jordan_U> Leftmost, -c tells it to look for new releases at all, -d includes development releases
[11:07] <Leftmost> It still doesn't show anything.
[11:08] <Jordan_U> Leftmost, strange
[11:08] <Leftmost> Are there any sources that, were they unmarked, might cause this?
[11:11] <Leftmost> Hmm. update-manager is giving me "current dist not found in meta-release file".
[11:11] <Jordan_U> Leftmost, Feisty-updates possibly?
[11:15] <Leftmost> Well, feisty-updates is certainly marked.
[11:17] <Jordan_U> Leftmost, It's not working for me either, it may be that you can't upgrade until Beta or something like that, I installed fresh from tribe 1
[11:18] <Jordan_U> Leftmost, You could try a dist-upgrade if you are daring :)
[11:18] <DanaG> wtf?  Whenever I try to connect to my wpa-protected network, knetworkmanager opens the password prompt with the "Okay" button DISABLED.  I have to change the passphrase and then change it back.
[11:18] <Leftmost> Hmm. Well, the Tribe 2 testing page says the upgrade can be done with update-manager. I suppose that's where my confusion comes in.
[11:22] <Jordan_U> Leftmost, Do you have feisty-proposed enabled?
[11:22] <Leftmost> Yeah.
[11:26] <Leftmost> Hmm. Well, we'll try an experiment and, if it fails, I can always install fresh.
[11:49] <bronson> I tried installing Tribe 2 on my Thinkpad T42p...  Couldn't even get past partitioning.
[11:53] <Jordan_U> bronson, Did you try the alternate CD and did you file a bug?
[11:54] <bronson> (sorry, got called away)  The first time I try to change a partition type, it says Scanning Disks, then hangs forever.
[11:54] <bronson> GUI's hung too.
[11:54] <bronson> No, no bug.
[11:55] <bronson> I searched for a bug but didn't see one...  Just wondering if I'm the only one seeing this.
[11:55] <bronson> I'll try the alternative.
[11:55] <munckfish> Hi, does anyone know what improvements are being made to network-manager integration in Gutsy? I have a bug here in Feisty which is causing me to lose DNS, which I now believe is caused ifupdown/NM clashing.
[11:55] <Jordan_U> bronson, File a bug also
[11:56] <bronson> ok, will do
[11:56] <munckfish> I see there are loads of bugs open relating to this already and I wondered what if anything is happening about it
[11:57] <bronson> what do the bugs say?  ;)
[11:57] <Jordan_U> munckfish, network manager doesn't use any interfaces defined in /etc/networking/interfaces so it shouldn't be possible for them to clash
[11:58] <munckfish> Well, the problem I have is NM is managing my eth0 and eth1, but ifupdown starts a dhclient process for whichever one isn't connected
[11:58] <munckfish> eventually, dhclient times out and overwrites resolv.conf with nameservers from an old and irrelevant lease
[11:59] <munckfish> now, there are plenty of bugs open already complaining about resolv.conf getting clobbered
[11:59] <bronson> Yikes...  yeah, that would be a problem.
[11:59] <bronson> Why don't I see this problem on my machine?  I have NM managing eth0 and eth1 too...?
[12:00] <munckfish> I've worked around it for the moment by commented eth1 and eth0 stuff in /etc/network/interfaces
[12:00] <Jordan_U> munckfish, Why is ifupdown doing anything with those interfaces? Do you know?
[12:00] <Jordan_U> munckfish, That is how it is supposed to work...
[12:00] <munckfish> Well, this is a question which I have not been able to answer yet
[12:01] <Jordan_U> munckfish, You can't have an interface in /etc/network/interfaces and managed by network manager
[12:01] <munckfish> yes
[12:01] <Jordan_U> munckfish, In fact network manager shouldn't even let you do it
[12:01] <bronson> Jordan_U: er, isn't that how it's installed?
[12:01] <munckfish> well
[12:01] <bronson> I have NM managing all my interfaces, yet I have auto eth0 and auto eth1, dhcp both, in /etc/network/interfaces.
[12:02] <munckfish> I read somewhere that NM will consider interfaces which are marked as 'auto' or 'dhcp'
[12:02] <Jordan_U> bronson, No, network manager doesn't use /etc/network/interfaces
[12:02] <munckfish> there's a readme about it somewhere I think
[12:02] <Jordan_U> Maybe I am wrong
[12:02] <munckfish> and in Feisty it comes like this by default
[12:02] <Jordan_U> munckfish, I thought that was why they added the "roaming" option to network-admin
[12:02] <bronson> Well, somehow nm and ifupdown don't stomp on each other on my mostly stock Feisty box...  and I have no idea why they don't.
[12:03] <munckfish> well, even more confusing is my work colleague has exactly the same laptop as me
[12:03] <Jordan_U> munckfish, Check if your interfaces are set to "roaming" in network-admin
[12:03] <munckfish> and pretty much the same diff between his home net and work as me
[12:03] <munckfish> he doesn't seem to be experiencing it
[12:04] <munckfish> so I don't know if maybe something at the hw level is reacting diff on mine. No matter if that's the case it's kicked out this issue for me
[12:05] <munckfish> Jordan_U: ok will go check, 1 moment
[12:05] <munckfish> yeah both are marked as being in 'roaming' mode
[12:06] <munckfish> and anyway I haven't touched this configuration since I installed
[12:06] <munckfish> is just a normal Feisty
[12:06] <bronson> My wireless connection is marked roaming but my wired is marked "Address: DHCP"
[12:06] <bronson> FWIW
[12:08] <MugginsM> hrm, this one's 64-bit
[12:08] <munckfish> ok the description of how and when NM takes over an interface is in /usr/share/doc/network-manager/README.Debian
[12:09] <MugginsM> feisty's generally ok on x86_64?
[12:09] <MugginsM> I mean gutsy?
[12:10] <munckfish> Jordan_U, bronson: ok, I'm going to raise this bug of mine anyway so at least it can be discussed further, sorry I probably didn't describe it well here.
[12:13] <bronson> munckfish: right on.  hope it helps fix it.
[12:13] <bronson> munckfish: did you try setting your wired interface to non-roaming DHCP?
[12:13] <bronson> Not sure why that would help but that's how my machine is set up.
[12:14] <bronson> And for some reason my ethernet/wireless hotplug seem to work fine.
[12:14] <munckfish> I'll try that, do you know exactly what that changes in /etc/network/interfaces?
[12:14] <bronson> No idea.  my /etc/network/interfaces could hardly be simpler though.
[12:14] <munckfish> hmmm
[12:15] <bronson> everything is marked auto, everything is "iface ethN inet dhcp", for eth0 eth1 eth2 ath0 wlan0
[12:15] <munckfish> yeah that's the same as minie
[12:15] <munckfish> mine
[12:15] <bronson> Maybe it doesn't change /etc/network/interfaces...?
[12:15] <Jordan_U> munckfish, The same as yours when it is or isn't working?
[12:16] <munckfish> when it's not
[12:16] <munckfish> I'll upload this file also when I've got it raised
[12:17] <munckfish> course the next prob I have is deciding which package to raise this under
[12:17] <munckfish> :)
[12:19] <munckfish> bronson: can you do me favour and check for running dhclient processes on your machine
[12:19] <munckfish> ?
[12:19] <Jordan_U> munckfish, I would say network manager since this isn't going to effect server installs for instance
[12:19] <munckfish> I usually have 2
[12:20] <munckfish> 1 started by dhcdbd when NM asks it to do dhcp stuff
[12:20] <bronson> munckfish: only one.
[12:20] <bronson> /sbin/dhclient -1 -lf /var/lib/dhcp3/dhclient.eth1.le
[12:20] <bronson> ases -pf /var/run/dhclient.eth1.pid -q -e dhc_dbus=31 -d eth1
[12:20] <munckfish> and another started by the /etc/init.d/networking / ifupdown team on boot
[12:20] <bronson> Clearly the one that pulled the lease for the wireless i/f.  eth0 has nothing.
[12:21] <munckfish> ok, this is helping clarify it in my mind. The symptom for me is loss of DNS shortly after boot, but I'm realising now that
[12:22] <Jordan_U> munckfish, I only have one instance of dhclient
[12:22] <munckfish> the bug is, that the /etc/init.d/networks stuff isn't ignoring interfaces marked as roaming
[12:23] <munckfish> interesting ...
[12:23] <bronson> er...  my eth0 isn't marked remote.  Only my eth1.
[12:23] <bronson> Yet it's being ignored.
[12:25] <lontra> i have an orinoco card but it doesn't seem to be recognized by tribe #2  ... does anyone know how i can make it recognized?  i've tried modprobe orinoco and modprobe hermes but modprobe orinoco_cs tells me module not availabe :/
[12:25] <munckfish> bronson: from NM's README.debian "Only devices that are *not* listed in /etc/network/interfaces or which have been configured "auto" and "dhcp" (with no other options) are managed by NM."
[12:27] <bronson> So that's saying that NM will manage any interface that's marked auto...?
[12:28] <Jordan_U> bronson, auto with no other options
[12:28] <bronson> ok, that make sense.
[12:29] <bronson> Oh I get it:   !listed || (auto && dhcp)
[12:29] <bronson> I was parenthesizing wrong.  :)