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[12:58] <nixternal> how goes it my fellow kde'rz
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[03:03] <ScottK> nixternal: It turns out that manchicken_ is the real Vista lover.  He confessed and everything.
[03:03] <nixternal> hehe
[03:03] <nixternal> man, I had to fork out $125 for new mobo, cpu, and heatsinc/fan
[03:04] <nixternal> going to RMA this current board, get it back, and then have my 64bit build system I have always wanted...just struck at a very hard time
[03:04] <nixternal> I hadn't realised this next week is my 8 week finals, and I need Visual Studio for one of them
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[03:06] <ryanakca> ouch
[03:06] <nixternal> ya, but after this week, I will be able to work a little more on some things...especially that thing you and I talked about ScottK :)
[03:06] <ryanakca> nixternal: umm... since classroom has kindof 'branched' off from NUN, would you be interested in reconsidering joining it, after your finals?
[03:07] <ScottK> Cool.  I was wondering.
[03:07] <nixternal> never take 15 credits in 8 weeks...it is pretty difficult
[03:07] <nixternal> ryanakca: sure
[03:07] <nixternal> the other problem and I have resolved our issues, so I have no problems
=== ryanakca 's going to contact jono, see if he has any ideas, since he's the Community Manager
[03:07] <ryanakca> ah
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[03:34] <ryanakca> umm... why do I get the following when building kde4skd in pbuilder-gutsy?
[03:34] <ryanakca>  -> Considering  kdepimlibs4-dev (>= 3.91.0-0ubuntu5)
[03:34] <ryanakca>       Tried versions: 3.80.3-0ubuntu2
[03:34] <ryanakca> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepimlibs/3.91.0-0ubuntu5
[03:35] <ryanakca> oh, oops. nevermind, my bad, *blames the early time of night*
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[04:16] <DaSkreech> When was the last time someone saw Jucato?
[04:31] <ryanakca> DaSkreech: in here, or on planet? I think he had a blog entry yesterday...
[04:31] <DaSkreech> Here
[04:31] <ryanakca> hmm. dunno
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[05:10] <ryanakca> Riddell: looks like kde4sdk builds fine... so far
[05:12] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: hi again
[05:14] <ryanakca> kde4sdk build fine, lintian whines a lot, but, it built, and I think the whining is known
[05:17] <Hobbsee> hi DaSkreech
[05:17] <DaSkreech> How are you?
[05:17] <ryanakca> can someone test my kde4sdk package(s)? http://packages.ryanak.ca/dists/ryan-gutsy/kde/
[05:17] <Hobbsee> mmm...good....bouncing :)
[05:17] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: bouncy chair?
[05:17] <Hobbsee> nah
[05:19] <DaSkreech> Poofy cushion?
[05:20] <ryanakca> standard old wooden chair?
=== ryanakca yawns and figures he should go to bed
[05:44] <ScottK> So, did anyone else notice that Linspire is touting one of their advantages over Ubuntu is that they provide KDE?
[05:44] <Hobbsee> right, back
[05:44] <Hobbsee> ScottK: no....but that's odd
[05:44] <DaSkreech> Whoot! :)
[05:44] <ScottK> http://www.linspire.com/products_linspire_whatis.php
[05:44] <DaSkreech> KDE is an advantage :)
=== DaSkreech does the happy dance
[05:47] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: so go triage some of it's bugs :)
[05:47] <DaSkreech> :-)
=== DaSkreech moves the LongPointyStick
[05:47] <ScottK> KDE, not linspire, in case you were confused.
[05:47] <DaSkreech> Since you are bouncy you may hurt yourself :)
[05:48] <ScottK> Interesting rationalization of a self defense mechanism.
[05:48] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: hah.
[05:48] <DaSkreech> Oh yeah :) I'm a Guru Zen Technobabble fiend
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[05:52] <DaSkreech> hi manchicken
[05:53] <Hobbsee> hi manchicken
[06:21] <Hobbsee> ***anyone who is bored, please fix stuff on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/gutsy_probs.html - there are various main people around who can sponsor changes ***
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[07:46] <Hobbsee> nixternal: are you release-noting for tribe 3?
[07:47] <nixternal> I will be yes
[07:47] <nixternal> when is it due out?
[07:47] <Hobbsee> thursday
[07:47] <nixternal> oh, ya, I will have something once again :)
[07:48] <Hobbsee> cool, tahnks :)
[07:49] <ScottK> nixternal: Do you have it in your notes to mention the crypto changes for Kmail?
[07:49] <nixternal> yup
[07:49] <ScottK> Excellent.
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[10:27] <nixternal> well, 4 hours later and Windows XP still needs more software, updates, and I have to actually install Realtek audio drivers...a shame...the Kubuntu install of course went its usual 15 minutes and everything worked out of the box...why is Microsoft considered #1 again?
[10:28] <nixternal> heck in 1 hour, Kubuntu 64 is ready to build Gutsy package, test them in a chroot if needbe, and my development environment is ready to go
[10:28] <mhb> nixternal: it's not about "considering", it's just a fact
[10:29] <nixternal> a fact that is #1 in terms of users, yes...but not #1 in any other comparisons, except for maybe games
[10:29] <mhb> nixternal: how often are you going to be updating the KDE4 packages?
[10:29] <nixternal> well I need to talk to Riddell about that, I would like to do either weekly or biweekly snapshots of SVN
[10:30] <mhb> also, I think we (someone) should start making KDE4 live CDs
[10:30] <nixternal> I believe that is the plan...I think JR even said something in his talk at aKademy about that
[10:31] <mhb> ya, I believe so
[10:31] <Hobbsee> nixternal: why are you installing XP again?
[10:31] <Hobbsee> nixternal: that'd be cool
[10:31] <nixternal> my motherboard took a dump, so I went out and bought a new motherboard and cpu today
[10:31] <Hobbsee> nixternal: what are your plans for doign them?
[10:32] <nixternal> and hard drive
[10:32] <nixternal> Hobbsee: I am open to start doing them, I really don't have any plans as of yet, but I don't want to step on Riddell's toes if he has plans already in the making
[10:32] <Hobbsee> nixternal: you're doing the svn snapshots?
[10:32] <nixternal> I can if needbe
[10:33] <nixternal> I update my svn here weekly, unless something new comes out, then it could be twice a week
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[10:37] <Hobbsee> nixternal: well, if you're doing svn, and Riddell is doing the actual releases, then there should be no toe-stepping-on
[10:37] <Hobbsee> nixternal: of course, he probably wont say no if you help him out with the releases too
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[10:37] <nixternal> Hobbsee: I would rather help him out then duplicate the process really
[10:38] <mhb> Hobbsee: we're one release behind
[10:38] <Hobbsee> nixternal: i'm not sure that you would be duplicating them, if you were taking his debian/ each time, etc
[10:38] <Hobbsee> mhb: of?
[10:38] <mhb> kde4
[10:38] <Hobbsee> mhb: kde alphas?
[10:38] <nixternal> not anyore
[10:38] <nixternal> anymore
[10:38] <Hobbsee> ah
[10:38] <Hobbsee> i thought Riddell was uploading them during the week
[10:38] <nixternal> 3.91.0 has been uploaded
[10:38] <nixternal> they are there
[10:38] <mhb> was it?
[10:39] <nixternal> kdepimlibs5 (3.91.0) is broken though for amd64, so I wouldn't try it just yet unless you use something other than 64
[10:40] <mhb> why are we labeling it kde*5 ?
[10:40] <nixternal> so it doesn't interfere with kdepimlibs4 which is KDE3 ;)
[10:40] <mhb> yes, but it interferes with common sense, doesn't it?
[10:41] <nixternal> don't know the whole reasoning behind that though..I think because it is what debian does
[10:41] <mhb> == confusing for users
[10:41] <nixternal> I would figure kde4pimlibs
[10:43] <nixternal> oh well, time for sleep
[10:43] <nixternal> g'nite
[10:44] <mhb> see you
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[10:48] <mhb> Hobbsee: are the kde4 debian/ dirs also on bzr?
[10:50] <Hobbsee> mhb: i doubt it
[10:51] <mhb> Hobbsee: if there are several people that do packages, shouldn't they be?
[10:52] <Hobbsee> mhb: probably
=== Hobbsee --> dinner
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[12:09] <Hobbsee> mhb: there's probably a sane way of doing them.  i plan to speak to tonio_ about it, sometime
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[12:23] <mhb> Hobbsee: of doing the bzr branches?
[12:23] <mhb> Hobbsee: I thought you did them before, for KDE3
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[12:41] <BentJ> Question: I'm upgrading a virtual machine from feisty to gutsy by: removing korganizer, editing sources.list, update, distupgrade, but I keep winding up with that udev and volumeid do not get updated because it states udev break another package - Am I doing something wrong ?
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[12:57] <hunger> Strigi is now part of gutsy (at least as a recommendation). Is that a good idea? It eats HDD space like something that eats *VERY* much.
[01:02] <mhb> hunger: isn't strigi an important part of KDE4?
[01:03] <hunger> mhb: It is.
[01:03] <hunger> mhb: No reason to recommend it in kubuntu-desktop at this time.
[01:03] <mhb> hunger: what does it do for KDE3? (sorry for me not knowing)
[01:03] <hunger> mhb: The daemon is pretty independent of kde4 and there is a kde3 applet.
[01:04] <mhb> ah
[01:04] <hunger> It is just that so far strigi does not care at all about index sizes (the developers have not even started to look at this problem yet).
[01:05] <hunger> So I usually run out of HDD while indexing when strigi's index gets bigger than about 1.2x the size of the original files.
[01:06] <hunger> strigi currently copies the indexed contents into the indexes... which causes it to get HUGE, especially when indexing compressed archives.
[01:07] <mhb> hunger: so this "bug" is what's bothering you
[01:08] <hunger> mhb: I consider it not ready for wide deployment, yes.
[01:08] <hunger> mhb: And the debs do not seem to work anyway:-(
[01:09] <mhb> hunger: I'm not sure who made the decision (I don't remember anyone talking about it, but I have been away for a few days)
[01:09] <mhb> hunger: but you should talk to the person that decided it
[01:09] <hunger> I think riddel mentioned doing at the aKademy already.
[01:09] <mhb> hunger: could be, I wasn't there :o)
[01:10] <mhb> hunger: it may be that he believes that this particular bug will be fixed soon enough
[01:10] <hunger> Anyway: Can't start the strigi daemon anyway.
[01:10] <hunger> mhb: vandenoeder said he won't get round to reducing the index sizes soon.
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[01:12] <hunger> maybe it is just me with my tiny laptop HDD that is bothered by storage space requirements.
[01:12] <fdoving> oh, i could nebver imagine my strigi index to eat 5G, but it does.
[01:12] <sebas> mhb, hunger: It was decided in Sevilla
[01:12] <sebas> Some desktop search is needed
[01:12] <sebas> Using strigi seemed like a good upgrade path to kde4
[01:13] <hunger> sebas: I agree that desktop search is nice.
[01:13] <mhb> sebas: was it? Was there some information about it in the specs?
[01:13] <sebas> I guess so
[01:13] <sebas> Didn't write it myself, only attended the session
[01:13] <mhb> sebas: I just read KubuntuGutsyPlan which had no info about it
[01:13] <hunger> sebas: But then strigi currently eats up all my HDD space and then I can not work anymore. That is *really* bad.
[01:14] <sebas> Yeah, I read the backlog :)
[01:14] <hunger> sebas: I dunno whether the other desktop search engines are better (actually I doubt it, jos seems to know what he is doing;-)
=== mhb dislikes discussions which are not documented well :o)
[01:15] <mhb> it's like the 4th time I've heard "we discussed this at akademy" but there's no info about it on the net
=== mhb shuts up :o)
[01:15] <hunger> mhb: It was not discussed at aKademy. Riddel mentioned that it was decided somewhere at aKademy IIRC.
[01:16] <mhb> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/StrigiIntegration
=== hunger should check out that mandriva usb stick he was handed at aKademy.
[01:17] <sebas> I suggest to email kubuntu-devel, preferably with some figures
[01:18] <hunger> sebas: 5Gig of free space.... indexing of a 1.2G directory stopped since it ran out of HDD. So the index got to about 4x the original size.
[01:19] <sebas> Nice ;-)
[01:20] <hunger> Any index size which is bigger than the original filesize is unacceptable IIRC. Only got 100GB and that is the biggest I can get for this laptop:-(
[01:22] <mhb> sebas: now that I see you here, could I ask you a stupid question about KDE ev? Why do you keep your mailing lists closed (to read) ?
[01:22] <sebas> Yeah, I agree. It's better discussed on the ML, I doubt that it's a known problem
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[01:57] <Hobbsee> mhb: i did.  but i'm not convinced it's the sanest way to do them
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[02:32] <Hobbsee> haha, ScottK-confused today, are you?
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[02:52] <Riddell> ryanakca: kde4sdk uploaded thanks, you hadn't included the debian/cdbs directory and there were some files missing from being installed
[02:52] <Hobbsee> hi Riddell
[02:52] <Riddell> morning
[02:52] <sebas> mhb: Because there's confidential things being discussed
[02:57] <mhb> sebas: such as?
[02:57] <mhb> hello Riddell
[02:57] <sebas> mhb: Well, that's confidential :-)
[02:58] <sebas> Licensing strategies, marketing strategies and such.
[02:58] <mhb> sebas: the kde-true-core-devel, eh? :o)
[02:58] <sebas> No technical issues, no.
[02:58] <mhb> sebas: how can I know? It's confidential :o)
[02:59] <mhb> sebas: that was a joke, my point is that discussions behind closed doors disturb me, when it comes to a free project
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[03:00] <sebas> So you argue that *everything* has to be public?
[03:00] <mhb> sebas: in my personal opinion, it actually creates a gap between "the people in" and "the people out"
[03:01] <sebas> mhb: It's topics for those heavily involved, and the organisation is open.
[03:01] <sebas> You only have to go through some checks first.
[03:01] <sebas> http://ev.kde.org/getinvolved/members.php Here's how you can become a member.
[03:01] <mhb> sebas: I read most of the stuff there
[03:02] <sebas> Ok
[03:02] <mhb> sebas: an open source project should be open, yes
[03:02] <sebas> There are also the Quarterly Reports, if you want to know what's going on in the e.V.
[03:02] <sebas> The KDE e.V. is a foundation, not an Open Source project
[03:03] <sebas> It's supporting KDE's development process
[03:03] <sebas> The source and technical discussions and decision-making is open as it is.
[03:04] <mhb> sebas: decisions are public, the decision-making is not
[03:04] <sebas> There's some stuff you want to keep out of the press until discussion between core people has happened, that's what the closed ev list is for.
[03:04] <sebas> The technical decision making *is* public.
[03:04] <sebas> The e.V. has no influence on technical things.
[03:05] <sebas> That's in fact offtopic on that list, it's purely organisational stuff.
[03:05] <mhb> sebas: how many core developers are outside the e.v?
[03:05] <mhb> sebas: the important folks, I mean
[03:05] <sebas> I am not aware of one core-dev not being e.V. member.
[03:05] <sebas> We are in fact trying hard to get people into the e.V. that are around for a longer period of time, or are important for KDE
[03:06] <sebas> And I don't know one case where we failed
[03:07] <mhb> sebas: and by that, you create a gap between the people outside and the core developers
[03:08] <sebas> How so?
[03:08] <mhb> sebas: because we don't know what you discussed there
[03:08] <sebas> That doesn't matter, it's not technical discussions, for those that are involved enough, they do know.
[03:08] <sebas> Those that are interested what's discussed should read the reports
[03:08] <sebas> They're actually very interesting
[03:09] <sebas> I don't see a gap that's been created by the KDE e.V.'s existance, maybe you can point me at one.
[03:10] <sebas> And maybe you can also point me at a comparable Free Software project that has a foundation that does not have private discussions.
[03:11] <mhb> sebas: "comparable" is the word
[03:11] <sebas> You simply can't force anything to be open, and if you do, you loose a forum where people can speak out openly.
[03:11] <mhb> sebas: Kubuntu as a distribution has no such discussion
[03:11] <sebas> Kubuntu is not this kind of foundation.
[03:11] <sebas> And strategical discussion is being held at Canonical
[03:11] <mhb> sebas: like I said, "comparable" is the word
[03:12] <sebas> Think about the difference between "speak openly" and "open for curious people"
[03:13] <sebas> I understand that you'd like to know everything, but in this case, we'd harm the community be removing a way to discuss things interenally, before they get into the press, for example.
[03:13] <sebas> Or in the hands of Microsoft, or whoever.
[03:14] <sebas> Some issues also touch privacy, some issues simply can't be on public lists.
[03:14] <mhb> sebas: I've heard stories about "Akademy" vs. "aKademy"
[03:14] <sebas> And  your point is?
[03:15] <mhb> sebas: is that really a kind of discussion that deserves to be kept private?
[03:15] <Hobbsee> mhb: btw - ubuntu does have, and use, a private list, for a similar purpose of the eV list.
[03:15] <sebas> You can't interpolate from one topic you've heard of.
[03:15] <sebas> And you can't blame people sending emails that are offtopic.
[03:15] <mhb> sebas: I don't interpolate, I feel distrubed by it
[03:16] <mhb> sebas: I feel disturbed by a lot of things, though :o)
[03:16] <sebas> I think you shouldn't.
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[03:16] <mhb> sebas: probably. I just wanted to ask you about it.
[03:16] <mhb> sebas: thanks for your time
[03:16] <sebas> Well, you can.
[03:17] <sebas> Who told you about such a discussion, btw?
[03:17] <mhb> sebas: heard gossip on IRC
[03:17] <mhb> sebas: not sure now
[03:17] <sebas> By *who*?
[03:17] <mhb> sebas: and you'd punish them, right? :o)
[03:18] <sebas> How can I?
[03:18] <Hobbsee> sebas: throw them out of the eV?
[03:18] <Hobbsee> :P
[03:18] <sebas> Why don't you tell me, when you think it should be open?
[03:19] <mhb> sebas: shouldn't I be supposed to undermine the organisation instead? :o)
[03:19] <sebas> mhb: Why should you?
[03:19] <sebas> What good does that do?
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[03:23] <mhb> sebas: I still want the people who spread the info to remain unpunished
[03:23] <mhb> sebas: they didn't do it on purpose
[03:24] <sebas> What if people want to tell other KDE people this kind of information (information that can get them or others into problems when made public)? Should they be able to do so?
[03:24] <Hobbsee> then they'd just use private email, if that list was public, i expect
[03:25] <sebas> That's not the point, Hobbsee.
[03:25] <sebas> If I understand mhb correctly, also private email should be "open"
[03:25] <sebas> (it's an open source thing, after all)
[03:25] <Hobbsee> sebas: oh true, i'm merely saying that's what people would do, if that were the case.
[03:25] <mhb> sebas: no, you don't understand me in this point
[03:25] <Hobbsee> yeah
[03:25] <sebas> mhb: What's your point then?
[03:26] <sebas> I don't think there's a non-technical difference between private email and a private list.
[03:26] <sebas> After all, I could just email all e.V. members, or all the people I think should be aware of something.
[03:27] <mhb> sebas: decision making should be open, when it comes to a free project
[03:27] <sebas> What kind of decisions?
[03:27] <mhb> sebas: any non-marketing related one
[03:28] <sebas> What is 'making deciions open'?
[03:28] <sebas> Is that "everyone should be able to vote" for example?
[03:28] <Hobbsee> mhb: say, if i get harassed by....oh i dont know, jucato, or someone, who is a member of the ubuntu project.  Now, if i take that to the CC, i'm not really going to want to take that to a public list, and expose them, with all the chatlogs, in public, right?  there are legit uses for private lists
[03:28] <mhb> sebas: I'm so sorry I interrupt, but I need to go away for a while
[03:29] <Hobbsee> mhb: in fact, if i went publically with that, i'd probably be breaking the COC.
[03:29] <sebas> For the case Hobbsee mentions, we have an even more private list (closed to non-board ev-members)
[03:29] <sebas> That's the list of the KDE e.V. board.
[03:29] <Hobbsee> as in, he'd need to be punished for it, but tehre's no need to splash it to the entire world, which could influence his future prospects, etc
[03:30] <sebas> mhb: think also about legal issues while under way
[03:30] <Hobbsee> <and that's all hypothetical>
[03:30] <sebas> Hobbsee: Well, it's still a very valid example
[03:30] <sebas> (unfortunately)
[03:30] <Hobbsee> oh true, i didnt want to accuse jucato or something, though :)
=== sebas takes a shower and another coffee
[03:34] <ryanakca> Riddell: oops, sorry
[03:37] <ryanakca> hmmm... I guess since I haven't had any negative replies to the proposition yet, and it's a stormy day, I might as well work on the server
[03:38] <ryanakca> Try Kolab first, or go for straight eGroupware?
[03:38] <ryanakca> And... is there anybody with a kubuntu style domain (thinks loco, etc) that is willing to donate a subdomain?
[03:44] <fdoving> ryanakca: i have kde.no you can have something under that if you want.
[03:45] <mhb> sebas: a Hobbsee's example is a valid one
[03:45] <mhb> sebas: (still, if she was harassed by a core-dev, he would read the ML, too)
[03:46] <mhb> sebas: but having a mailing list which is closed, but all "important" folks are in it is rather disturbing for me
[03:46] <mhb> sebas: I can understand that a foundation can have marketing-related discussions that should be closed
[03:46] <sebas> How about legal issues?
[03:46] <mhb> sebas: same as a company like Canonical
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[03:47] <mhb> sebas: but there should be only people that are really needed to know it, like the e.v. council and some marketing-related folks
[03:47] <sebas> So it disturbs you that there's a list you can't read, but you understand it's needed?
[03:48] <ryanakca> sebas: is e.V. to KDE as Canonical is to Ubuntu?
[03:48] <mhb> sebas: no, what distrubs me that there's a list where all the core developers are in, but which the public is unable to read
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[03:49] <sebas> mhb: But you said you'd understand private lists for marketing and legal stuff?
=== ScottK-confused is now known as ScottK
[03:49] <mhb> sebas: why should a "kopete" maintainer read the news about "Akademy" vs. "aKademy" and the public should not?
[03:49] <mhb> that was an example, I don't know the person
[03:50] <sebas> mhb: There is no news.
[03:50] <mhb> sebas: oh, really? :o)
[03:50] <sebas> It's just an offtopic discussion.
[03:51] <mhb> sebas: I understand the point about private discussions
[03:51] <sebas> Good then :)
[03:51] <mhb> sebas: I also say not everyone is able to vote
[03:51] <ryanakca> fdoving: hmm. That would be nice, please and thank you... except, might be hard to distinguish that it's -for-kubuntu-, but oh well :)
[03:51] <sebas> You've only caught a bad example.
[03:51] <mhb> sebas: but why should a "kopete" maintainer be there?
[03:52] <mhb> sebas: what does he need to know that I cannot?
[03:52] <sebas> Legal issues, trademark crap, have input on those questions?
[03:52] <mhb> sebas: you cannot solve this in a private mail?
[03:52] <ryanakca> sebas: KDE is a meritocracy, correct? (like Debian?)
[03:52] <sebas> Often, being in the e.V. is a sanity check for people and if they're really KDE people and would act in the advantage of the project.
[03:52] <sebas> ryanakca: yes
[03:53] <sebas> mhb: right, private email doesn't scale (and it's really only a technical difference)
[03:53] <mhb> sebas: heh, they wouldn't act against their employer in the first place
[03:53] <fdoving> ryanakca: you can of ourse try to find something better, then if you don't ping me .
[03:54] <ryanakca> fdoving: ok, will do :)
[03:54] <sebas> mhb: Yes, that's part of the sanity check. It's taken with a grain of salt though.
[03:54] <mhb> sebas: they actually do. Even if you try to avoid it, it creates an aura of the "kde-real-core-devel" channel
[03:54] <mhb> sebas: because *all* the important folks are there
[03:54] <sebas> It doesn't mean that KDE is their highest priority though. But we *do* check that KDE contribution is not merely due to employment (read questionnaire on ev.kde.org)
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[03:54] <ryanakca> Riddell: did we/are we going to include the compact kmilo patch?
[03:55] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: it's already in.  looks very pretty
[03:55] <Hobbsee> else i'm confused about what it is
[03:55] <sebas> ryanakca: if you refer to smaller kmilo notifications, it's in
[03:55] <mhb> sebas: I can live with a "e.v. board" channel because I'm sure you cannot influence all the devs directly through that
[03:55] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: oooh goodies :D
[03:55] <sebas> mhb: Well, I'm afraid you have to live with a private ev list as well.
[03:55] <arun> Has anyone offered to redesign kubuntu.com?
[03:55] <mhb> arun: yes
[03:56] <arun> mhb: cool, who is doing it?
[03:56] <mhb> arun: kwwii mainly
[03:57] <arun> cool
[03:57] <mhb> sebas: but I'm afraid you have to live with me criticising it everywhere because of the "kde-real-core-devel" aura
[03:58] <sebas> mhb: Is that some threat? "I will tell people it sucks"
[03:58] <sebas> I think that won't put you into a good light either.
[03:58] <mhb> sebas: oh, I thought we're talking threats
[03:58] <sebas> And it's not a productive way as well.
[03:59] <mhb> sebas: because your last response was one as well
[03:59] <sebas> Honestly, just try to live with it.
[03:59] <sebas> That's a misunderstanding then.
[03:59] <sebas> You just didn't convince me it's a bad thing.
[03:59] <mhb> sebas: well, "you cannot do anything about it." sounds very unproductive to me
[03:59] <sebas> That's untrue, you're right.
[04:00] <sebas> Get more involved with KDE, propose to open this list. That's what you can do.
[04:00] <mhb> sebas: yes, that's the point.
[04:00] <mhb> sebas: again restricting people from the outside of the e.v.
[04:01] <sebas> Repeating myself: this list has totally absolutely nothing to do with core-devel, it's *not* about technical decisions.
[04:01] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Network was confused.  I was sleeping.
[04:01] <Hobbsee> ScottK: heh
[04:01] <sebas> it's not restricted, there's a clearly defined way of getting in.
[04:01] <sebas> http://ev.kde.org/
[04:01] <sebas> We only have to secure ourselves against poisonous people taking important decisions (trademark, legal, marketing, for example)
[04:03] <sebas> mhb: If you're really concerned about it, by the way, you can send an email to kde-ev-membership@kde.org and complain.
[04:04] <mhb> I have a bad experience with kde teams, to be honest. I know teams that are poisoned from the inside (no public discussions at all - everything gets decided in Novell private chats). That is why I'd like to see proof that this one is really restricted to the non-tech decisions.
[04:04] <mhb> It's my bad experience that is influencing my opinions, I know.
[04:05] <sebas> That's not come to my attention yet. I can't really comment on that.
[04:05] <mhb> and I'd really like to see proof especially because I've heard gossip.
[04:05] <mhb> again my personal experience
[04:05] <sebas> Not more than: "I've not seen anything like this happening (a company taking too much influence in KDE)
[04:06] <sebas> And then, you're probably talking about technical decisions, which is *not* e.V. material.
[04:06] <sebas> I get the impression that you're oversimplifying things a lot.
=== sebas goes for a shower and ends this discussion now.
[04:07] <mhb> sebas: I mean - I'd like to see a clear policy on what is discussed at e.v.
[04:08] <Hobbsee> sebas: that's what you said before, and failed
[04:08] <mhb> yes
=== mhb shuts up
[04:08] <sebas> Hobbsee: Now I won't :)
[04:09] <Hobbsee> :P
[04:09] <mhb> sebas: you get a bad mark from me for ignoring people. Not that it matters to you, though.
[04:09] <mhb> :o)
[04:09] <sebas> mhb: So get involved with the KDE e.V. and propose such  thing.
[04:09] <sebas> mhb: And stop accusing people of being ignorant, please.
[04:10] <mhb> sebas: no, you're not ignorant.
[04:11] <sebas> Then don't say so. I've killed more than an hour of my free time trying to explain things to you. I'm actually pretty pissed you accuse me of ignoring you.
[04:11] <mhb> sebas: I'd do the same if somebody argued with me for that long.
[04:11] <sebas> So there you got me angry as well, thanks a lot for that.
[04:11] <fdoving> it's offtopic anyway, stfu :)
[04:12] <mhb> good point.
[04:12] <fdoving> grr.. konqueror doesn't like all java applets..
[04:13] <sebas> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645 half-related, but very interesting.
[04:13] <mhb> sebas: sorry for making you angry.
[04:15] <mhb> sebas: I didn't want to "kill" one our of your time either. I'm sorry to hear you consider discussions like this a waste of time.
[04:17] <ryanakca> hmmm... methinks kubuntu.org should get a user map like http://www.kubuntu-fr.org/carte/ :D well, I think it's interesting at least, it let's you see who uses Kubuntu near you, and gives you the possibility of forming a LUG...
[04:18] <ryanakca> just an idea thrown into the wind, if kwwii is interested
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[04:54] <ryanakca> Riddell: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8481683/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.kde4sdk_3.91.0-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
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[06:12] <nixternal> mornin'
[06:17] <ScottK> Good morning.
[06:18] <Hobbsee> hiya nixternal, ScottK
[06:18] <nixternal> howdy
[06:30] <mhb> good morning everyone
=== Hobbsee can now go to bed
[06:30] <mhb> and good night, Hobbsee
[06:33] <Hobbsee> $%^^^%$^&&
[06:33] <Hobbsee> not quite
[06:34] <nixternal> wo, when are we going to get Kobuntu :)
[06:35] <nixternal> wo? so*
=== Hobbsee resends teh mail to u-devel-announce.  *grumble*
=== ScottK imagines gobuntu + apt-get install kubuntu-desktop would do it nixternal
[06:36] <Hobbsee> helps if the URL's work
=== ..[topic/#kubuntu-devel:Hobbsee] : Welcome to #kubuntu-devel | Merge! http://merges.ubuntu.com | Bugs! https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team/+packagebugs | Tribe 3 coming! - please fix any of http://tinyurl.com/2krybt
[06:37] <nixternal> yes, but it would be nice to have a Kobuntu LiveCD to install instead of that pesky gnome desktop ;p
[06:37] <Hobbsee> yeah, but i really dont like the thought of testing another cd...
[06:37] <Hobbsee> sorry, batch of
[06:37] <nixternal> I will do it all! :)
[06:37] <Hobbsee> :P
[06:37] <Hobbsee> just do the amd64's
[06:37] <nixternal> I got them covered
[06:37] <Hobbsee> thanks :)
[06:44] <mhb> nixternal: err, sorry for the question, but is there anything restricted other than drivers?
[06:44] <nixternal> I think just the drivers..the best people to ask would be someone like ompaul who worked on gNewSense
[06:44] <mhb> okay, thanks
[06:52] <Hobbsee> right, now that post is thru, and correct, i really can go to bed.
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[10:02] <jjesse> afternoon
[10:31] <jjesse> !nixternal
[10:31] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[10:31] <jjesse> man i love that
[10:43] <Tonio_> jjesse: hehe :)
[10:43] <jjesse> i think sometimes i do it because i know it bothers him :)
[10:54] <Riddell> Tonio_: have you uploaded k-d-s with the new artwork?
[10:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: nope, it's just commited bzr
[10:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: I was waiting for ken to upload all the artwork
[10:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: kdelibs ftbfs on i386, still the icon issue, so I'm fixing the package once and for all
[10:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: is the last part of the artwork ready somewhere ?
[10:58] <Riddell> Tonio_: no, it's not
[10:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: oki :)
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