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persiasuperm1: Sorry.  The bit about debian/README.Debian-source apparently was recently changed (I was looking at 3.3.7).  The sentence changed from "must contain detailed information how the repackaged source was obtained, and how this can be reproduced, in README.Debian-source or a similar file" to "must contain detailed information how the repackaged source was obtained, and how this can be reproduced in the debian/copyright.".  My apologies, and y12:37
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superm1_ah not a big deal persia.  thanks for double checking on that12:42
superm1_was there a second half to that statement though, you left it at "My apologies, and"12:42
=== persia dislikes buffers and intended to end with "My apologies, and you probably want to fix debian/copyright :)", but hadn't actually looked at REVU to validate that statement.
superm1_Ah.  debian/copyright does not describe that it was gathered from revu atm, but there is a X-Vcs-Bzr12:43
superm1_in debian/control12:43
superm1_i wasn't positive if that would be considered adequate12:44
superm1_an identical method was used in my previous upload, mythbuntu-default-settings12:45
superm1_actually the same debian/copyright12:45
persiasuperm1: Not according to the Developers Reference 3.3.9, but there's heaps of things in the archive that don't follow that yet (and I've been recommending debian/README.Debian-source until now).  For the older stuff, consider cleanup when you have time.  For new stuff, put it in debian/copyright.12:47
superm1_will do.12:47
superm1_persia, this is very good that you're helping to make more apps compliant :)12:47
tristanbobwhy is there no #ubuntu-security channel?12:49
tristanbobI want to ask a question about remote desktop "vino"12:49
superm1_i'll re-uplaod with a small bit in debian/copyright before i grab another revu from someone12:49
keescooktristanbob: generally we just talk about it in here.12:49
keescookwhat're you wondering?12:49
tristanbobI believe that vino encrypts the password with DES, but doesn't encrypt the session - is this still true?12:50
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tristanbobkeescook: also, vnc authentication is a single 8 character pasword, no username - correct?12:52
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keescooktristanbob: right, I'm pretty sure the session is still not encrypted.12:55
tristanbobok - thanks - I am going to blog about it12:56
superm1_tristanbob, if you would like the session encrypted, look into the -via switch of vncviewer12:57
superm1_you can tunnel the session through ssh easily with it12:57
tristanbobsuperm1: how easy?12:58
tristanbobI am aware of the technique12:58
tristanbobbut why is it not in the gui?12:58
superm1_i'm not sure why it's not in the gui12:58
tristanbobubuntu is supposed to "just work"12:58
superm1_i use it daily though12:58
superm1_like this: vncviewer localhost:0 -via uesr@HOST12:59
superm1_that will connect to an ssh server on port 22 of the machine host, and forward its :0 session of VNC12:59
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superm1_persia, is this the sort of thing you are referring to for a better idea of debian/copyright: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/mythbuntu-live-autostart-0707131850/mythbuntu-live-autostart-0.1/debian/copyright01:07
persiasuperm1: That looks good to me.01:07
mohammadScottK: hello, thank you for reviewing Zekr. I cannot see why in your opinion the issue of MOZILA_FIVE_HOME is important. could you please give me some clue?01:08
superm1_alright good.  well if any other MOTUs are up for a revu, i've got one up here now http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=600801:08
gesersuperm1_: wouldn't build-depending on python (instead of python-dev) be enough?01:11
geseror does it need the python-headers?01:11
superm1_Well I guess it doesn't need the headers01:12
superm1_This was my first python app that i hand wrote and packaged, so i wasn't too sure01:12
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geseryou could also add a XS-Vcs-Browser field point to codebrowse on LP01:13
TheMusoHey folks.01:14
superm1_geser, okay i'll double check on the python-dev / python debacle and then add that field01:14
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=== persia wishes there was an easy way to distinguish between packages maintained with VCS in Debian and packages maintained with VCS in Ubuntu only.
geseranother small note: please line-wrap this long line in the manpage01:16
geserpersia: doesn't looking to the vcs location help?01:16
minghuapersia: Good point.  Maybe XS-Ubuntu-Vcs-*?01:17
persiageser: For alioth or launchpad, yes.  For other sites, not so much.01:17
=== minghua also knows that his own packages are not VCS maintained in Ubuntu.
persiaminghua: Maybe, but my dream would also involve patching apt to only verify I really want to download when it is an Ubuntu VCS, and the transition would take a while...01:18
minghuaSo if an Ubuntu users follow those VCS links, he/she will be surprised.01:18
persiaminghua: In some cases (and it's not currently clear which).01:18
minghuapersia: Are you talking about tools like Daniel's "bzr unpack"?  I am not familiar with those.01:19
persiaminghua: Even just apt (try apt-get source for something with VCS links)01:20
minghuapersia: Is that an Ubuntu-only feature?01:21
=== geser looks on the agenda for the MOTU meeting and decides to move to bed
persiaminghua: Maybe, but I don't see anything in the changelog (then again, there are some irregularities in the changelog)01:23
minghuapersia: Thanks, I'll test.01:23
=== minghua fires up gutsy pbuilder.
superm1_alright i've updated things per geser's recommendations if anyone else would like to take a look: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=600901:25
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Toadstoolheya everybody01:28
FujitsuYay, beryl and its close relatives are gone!01:29
FujitsuHi Toadstool.01:30
NafalloFujitsu: 01:30
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Toadstoolhey Fujitsu!01:30
Toadstoolhow is it going?01:30
Fujitsuberyl* has been removed.01:30
FujitsuNot bad, just woke up.01:30
NafalloFujitsu: but the new thing is still there? :-P01:31
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ToadstoolNafallo: replaced by compiz-fusion yeah01:31
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FujitsuNafallo: Indeed, but it isn't /quite/ as crashy.01:31
Nafalloehrm. not compcomm or something like that?01:31
Fujitsu... wow. beryl-core has 132 open bugs.01:31
FujitsuCompiz Fusion is the proper name.01:31
Fujitsucompcomm was only temporary, and lasted in Ubuntu for a whole couple of days, I believe.01:32
NafalloI'll just throw that info to /dev/null again. will never understand those projects. worse than soap operas.01:32
=== Fujitsu wishes malone had that mass-status-changing wishlist bug implemented.
=== TheMuso syncs daily CDs.
FujitsuTheMuso: Finally taking the plunge?01:33
TheMusoFujitsu: Not exactly. I always keep up with daily CD images.01:34
TheMusoJust in cas.01:34
Nafalloanyone ever ordered stuff from Dell? :-)01:34
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FujitsuI bought a laptop from them 18 months ago.01:34
NafalloFujitsu: good. when you checked the status page for your order. was the date it originally said the order should be delivered when it was actually delivered? :-)01:35
FujitsuNo, it was delivered a couple of days later.01:35
FujitsuI think they updated the ETA a couple of days before it was meant to come, though.01:36
NafalloI should call them and point out it's important that it will actually land on the 20th :-)01:36
minghuaNafallo: In my case it was one day earlier, I think.01:37
Nafallominghua: that would be much better indeed :-)01:37
Nafallominghua: Tribe-3 on the 19th ;-)01:38
=== TheMuso looks at the non-existant MOTU meeting agenda.
minghuaI am in US though, so my case is not comparable with Fujitsu's, I suppose.01:38
Nafallominghua: US, AU, SE ;-)01:39
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=== minghua thinks Nafallo chooses the most irrelevant place to live for the purpose of extrapolating from his and Fujitsu's data.
minghua(unless Dell ships to moon)01:40
Nafallominghua: tssss. "choose" ;-)01:40
FujitsuOh, right, meeting.01:41
Nafallominghua: I will be moving to London in a month or so... ;-)01:41
=== minghua envies that European people can move to another country easily.
=== Fujitsu ponders rejecting 186 bugs.
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NafalloFujitsu: DOIT! :-D01:42
=== Fujitsu works out how to extract the bug numbers from the page.
Toadstooler is the meeting worth staying at work a little longer? the agenda is quite empty01:43
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sistpotyhi folks01:43
FujitsuHi sistpoty.01:43
sistpotyhi Fujitsu01:44
ajmitchcrap, motu meeting soon, no time for me to go out & get breakfast01:44
ajmitchthere's nothing to discuss, so it should be fast01:44
Toadstoolhi ajmitch 01:45
=== Fujitsu is eating breakfast at the moment.
sistpotyhi ajmitch and Toadstool01:45
Toadstoolhey sistpoty 01:45
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zulhey ajmitch 01:48
minghuapersia: That "apt-get source" using Vcs-* field is Ubuntu specific, bug 115959.01:53
ubotuLaunchpad bug 115959 in apt "apt-get source should check the Vcs-Bzr field" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11595901:53
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persiaMOTU Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now.  All are welcome02:00
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zuloh joy he just firgured out how to scream02:02
Fujitsuzul: Hahaha.02:03
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TheMusoMorning RAOF.02:48
RAOFMorning TheMuso 02:49
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TheMusoRAOF: Meeting in -meeting if interested.02:51
RAOFTheMuso: Thanks.  I won't be around for too long, though02:52
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minghuapersia: Is it okay for me to wait 4 hours to start drafting minutes?03:17
persiaminghua: I don't have an issue with that.03:17
ScottKminghua: 10% pay cut if you don't start now.03:18
minghuapersia: Thanks for the instructions.  I'll start later tonight (-0500).03:18
minghuaScottK: No problem, I'll take the pay cut. :-P03:18
persiaminghua: Great.  Thanks again.03:19
ScottKSee and I save us money too.03:19
=== TheMuso does not like that quit message.
FujitsuIt gets annoying after a while.03:21
persiaTheMuso: The trick is to complain before he leaves (but I always forget)03:21
FujitsuAnd it has been quite a while.03:21
RAOFA while ~= 2 times03:21
Fujitsupersia: Right, that's the worst part.03:21
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ScottKpersia: Am I being to hard on zekr about the setup script thing?03:23
persiaScottK: I really don't know.  I suspect that it wouldn't work in Debian due to xulrunner-dev vs. firefox-dev, but that's just a guess.  I also think it's ugly, but that's just a personal preference.  It needs review by someone more familiar with Java packaging, in my opinion.03:24
FujitsuDo we have anyone familiar with Java packaging?03:25
leonelwe need  sun-java6 u2 ... :)03:26
persiaFujitsu: Depends on the definition of have.  A very active member of the Debian Java team is often here, and the MOTU Java Growers might contain such people.03:26
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ScottKman-di is familiar with Java packaging.03:27
ScottKHi leonel. Did you see clamassassin got backported today.03:28
leonelyes !03:28
leonelwas great 03:28
ScottKNow that I'm authorized to approve backports, it should go a lot smoother.03:29
persiaScottK: Congratulations!03:29
leonelthat's great  ScottK 03:29
FujitsuScottK: That's nice and convenient :)03:29
ScottKYes.  03:29
KioshenScottK: grats03:29
sistpotyScottK: btw.: there seems to be s.th. wrong with current clamav (couldn't dist-upgrade to it successfully)... known issue?03:29
ScottKArchive Admins still have to buy it, but it's easier.03:30
sistpotycongrats btw. ;)03:30
ScottKsistpoty: Using the 22-7?03:30
ScottKsistpoty: Bug 124141 is fixed in 22-8. That's the only thing I know about.03:31
ubotuLaunchpad bug 124141 in linux-source-2.6.22 "kernel bug when installing clamav-freshclam" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12414103:31
sistpotyScottK: not quite sure, but I think so03:31
sistpoty(during dist-upgrade=03:31
sistpotyScottK: nope. kernel didn't throw anything, but dpkg did03:32
FujitsuThat's not it, then.03:32
sistpoty(damn, I should keep logs)03:32
persiasistpoty: Doesn't dpkg keep a log by default?03:33
sistpotyno idea?03:33
=== persia hunts
sistpotynope, just looked, doesn't show errors of interest03:34
minghuanot very useful for this kind of error, though.03:34
minghuasistpoty: What is the status of the problematic package (dpkg -l <name>) now?03:35
sistpotyiirc it was the postinst? of clamav-freshclam bailing out on dist-upgrade03:35
sistpotyminghua: I purged it, and now I could easily reinstall it03:35
minghuaI see.  Tough to reproduce, then.03:35
persiasistpoty: Try installing the old version, and then upgrading03:35
minghuapersia: May depend on versions of other packages.03:36
persiaminghua: These things can be forced, and usually don't matter for postinst error tracing03:36
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sistpotyimo this failed: upgrade clamav-freshclam 0.90.3-1ubuntu1 0.90.3-1ubuntu203:39
minghuapersia: Oh, I meant "the triggering of the bug may depend on the versions of other packages".03:39
persiaminghua: Ah.  Good point.03:39
ScottKIIRC there was a change in the postinst in there.03:39
minghuaI agree it's worth trying reinstalling the old version and try upgrading again though, if someone wants to hunt it down.03:40
minghuaBut I'm not going to bother.03:40
minghuaUnless it's my package, of course.03:40
sistpotyimo it doesn't matter that much if the upgrade path from feisty -> gutsy is fine03:40
minghuaThese problems are just too common in development branch.03:40
minghuasistpoty: Agreed.03:41
persiaminghua: Package ownership is an interesting concept, given the nature of MOTU :)03:41
ScottKpaste.ubuntu-nl.org/29879 is the diff03:42
=== sistpoty looks
ScottKDebian did it newal=`which newaliases || true` - Dunno what difference that makes.03:43
sistpotyScottK: shouldn't make a real difference imo, given the [ -x $newal ] 03:45
ScottKWhen I merged 0.90.3-2ubuntu1 I used the Debian version.  Not sure why you didn't get that.03:45
persiaDoesn't postinst run under -e?  If this gets passed to the subshell, you'll break in the subshell, rather than coming back to postinst and finding the || true03:46
minghuapersia: Sorry, I should have said "my Debian package".03:46
persiaminghua: No worries :)03:46
ScottKpersia: Dunno.  That's why I ask.  shwarma came up with the Ubuntu version of the change.03:47
minghuaScottK: I think without '|| true', when newaliases is not in $PATH, postinst will fail.03:48
minghuaYep. for example:03:50
minghua$ which non-existent; echo $?03:50
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minghuaAnd all maintainer scripts have "set -e".03:51
sistpotyminghua: doesn't fail in my dash at least03:51
sistpoty(i.e.  x=`which non-existent` || true)03:52
persiasistpoty: Is that under -e?03:52
sistpotypersia: yes03:52
minghuasistpoty: I am sorry.  I don't have much context.  What is the debdiff ScottK posted for?03:52
=== persia wonders if perhaps the subshell doesn't import -e, instead expecting the parent to break if the error isn't handled.
sistpotyclamav-freshclam... only looked at this as well03:53
minghuasistpoty: With || true, it won't fail.  I am assuming the debdiff is from current Ubuntu package to another one.03:53
sistpotyI thought it would have been from my previous version to newer one... but it shouldn't fail anyway when retrying the new debdiff (in case the old failed=03:55
ScottKminghua: That was clamav 0.90.3-1ubuntu1 0.90.3-1ubuntu203:55
sistpotys/new debdiff/new package/03:55
sistpotybut as I said, I'm not even entirely sure if it was clamav-freshclam which failed or another clamav package03:56
minghuaScottK: I see.  Then that diff shouldn't cause any problem.  But is there a similar change in postrm?03:56
ScottKThe postinst does 'set -e'03:56
=== ScottK looks
ScottKpostrm does not attempt to remove the alias, so it doesn't come up.03:57
ScottKminghua: ^^03:57
persiaScottK: How about prerm?  Shouldn't the alias be cleaned up at some point?03:58
ScottKNope.  It just stops the freshclam daemon.03:58
=== persia thinks that's a bug - purging a package should clean up everything
=== ScottK would tend to think so, but the policy does not appear to be clear.
ScottKpersia: Go read the policy on purging.  It just talks about files.03:59
=== ScottK agrees, but has been told this is a controversial matter in Debian.
minghuaScottK: Before I go grabbing the package -- why -1ubuntu1 and -1ubuntu2?  I see -2ubuntu1 already in archive.03:59
persiaScottK: I know.  The reason for this is that it's really hard to implement dropping users and groups in a safe manner, as they may own files that are not purge targets (tmpfiles, logfiles, etc.)04:00
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sistpotyplease, don't put too much energy in this particularly bad report ;)04:00
ScottKminghua: That's another question I had for sistpoty.04:00
minghuaOkay, then it's a bad report against old packages. :-P04:01
ScottKsistpoty: Not all the upgrade bugs I saw had kernel errors in them.  I may have duped a real issue to the kernel bug thinking it was all the same.04:01
=== minghua decides to give up.
sistpotyScottK: when was it uploaded? I use a german mirror and lag one day04:01
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ScottKsistpoty: July 10.04:01
sistpotythen I misinterpreted dpkg.log... sorry04:02
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minghuasistpoty: Should use aptitude, then you at least have a readable package version history. :-P04:02
=== persia wonders about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/REVU vs. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
sistpotybah... apt is all I need... if only I didn't forget to tee the log :P04:03
sistpotyScottK: btw.: current version on my mirror is "clamav-freshclam                  0.90.3-2ubuntu1"... I won't look at dpkg.log again, promised ;)04:04
ScottKSo you were upgrading to 0.90.3-2ubuntu1 when you got the error?04:04
ScottKlet me go check the diff for that one.04:05
sistpotyfrom $unknown_version probably a few (4-8) weeks old04:05
sistpotyor let's rather say I was on gutsy already *g*04:06
ScottKWe may have a winner.  Give me a moment to pastebin the diff.04:07
minghuasistpoty: Should be from 3-1ubuntu2 according to your dpkg.log.04:07
minghua(as your last upgrade was from -1ubuntu1 to -1ubuntu2)04:08
ScottKDebian came up with that one all by themselves.  Any thoughts?04:08
persiaIs it just me, or is $min not actually defined before use?04:09
minghuapersia: It's just a diff, starting from line #107, no less.04:09
=== ScottK notices line 5 of the paste and wonders.
persiaminghua: True.  Line 106 might be a definition for $min, but line 107 is a commented out definition for $min, which makes me suspicious.04:10
minghuaYeah, didn't see the commented-out line, sorry.04:10
sistpotyshouldn't matter... sh doesn't check for use before definition04:11
minghua* Fix newaliases test to not fail when newaliases isn't present (closes: #431990)04:12
persiaScottK: What's the difference between /usr/bin/freshclam and /usr/bin/freshclam --quiet?04:12
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minghuaThat's in Debian changelog.  Anybody read the Debian bug?04:12
persiadebian bug 43199004:12
ubotuDebian bug 431990 in clamav-base "clamav-base: installation fails: Not creating home directory `/var/lib/clamav'." [Serious,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/43199004:12
minghuaIt's probably the fix in -1ubuntu2, though.04:12
ScottKThat's correct.04:13
ScottKpersia: Not sure.04:13
ScottKI looked into this when I did the merge and then did a brain dump.04:13
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persiaScottK: heh.  Try running them locally (I don't have any clam* installed)04:14
sistpotyhm... any idea when newaliases was added to exim4?04:14
minghuapersia: That --quiet change is not important.  Debian bug 427420.04:14
ubotuDebian bug 427420 in clamav-freshclam "clamav-freshclam: Recurring warning messages in cron-mode" [Normal,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/42742004:14
persiaminghua: Right.  It's just the only change I see in the diff for -2ubuntu1 (431990 having been fixed differently in -1ubuntu2)04:15
sistpotyhm... newaliases was added back in '02, so 431990 doesn't look like a candidate04:15
=== minghua decides it's best to suppress curiosity and goes back to work.
sistpotyminghua: +1 ;)04:16
persiasistpoty: You're only the bug reporter: you don't get to set the Importance :)04:16
sistpotyI guess it might prove more useful to test if a dist-upgrade from feisty to gutsy works, than to look for sistpoty's weird bugs04:16
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sistpotyhehe persia04:17
persiaHi jorgerosa04:17
=== ScottK wonders. The bug reports absolutely stopped after the 22-8 kernel got rolled out.
jorgerosaCan anyone compile this for us, please, to .DEB file?04:17
jorgerosaand send back to me, please? We need it for some tests here. Thankyou!04:17
persia   !paste | jorgerosa04:17
ubotujorgerosa: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)04:17
ScottKShould have clamav 0.91-1 from Debian very soon, so I'll find out.04:17
ScottKIf there's still an upgrade problem.04:17
persiajorgerosa: You'll probably do best to create a needs-packaging bug in LP.  There's a fair bit of work that needs doing to make that into a debian-format package.04:18
persiajorgerosa: Also, to reduce packaging hassle later, it would be ideal if you could include the relevant license for the software in your repository.  ./COPYING is common, as is ./LICENSE04:20
jorgerosapersia: Im sorry guys, im not a coder (coders r away right now), im only windows pro, sorry there :(04:24
persiajorgerosa: No problems.  It would be great to get your software into Ubuntu, and it's really nice when software is written to work for both Windows and Linux (even more points for Mac OS X, other BSDs, etc.).  Would you might letting the developers know that a license for the code would be preferred (as otherwise we can't distribute).04:26
sistpotyok, /me is off to bed now... dawn is already breaking here04:27
sistpotygn8 everyone04:27
jorgerosaBye guys04:27
FujitsuNight sistpoty.04:27
FujitsuBye jorgerosa.04:27
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=== persia wonders if there is an easy well to tell which update set restart-required
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FujitsuHi Hobbsee.04:56
=== Fujitsu complains about the lack of mass-status-changing on LP again.
ScottKBut Fujitsu, why would you possibly want to do that.  I don't understand.04:57
=== ScottK ducks.
FujitsuA 3.5KB CC line is just wrong.04:57
=== ajmitch takes the bitter pills away from ScottK
=== ScottK is old enough to be entitled to some bitterness.
Hobbseehey Fujitsu 04:58
HobbseeFujitsu: er...i think you can...04:58
ajmitchhello Hobbsee 04:58
persiaFujitsu: How about the mail interface?04:58
FujitsuHobbsee: Well, I mean without compiling a lot of email addresses.04:58
ajmitchpersia: hence the CC line04:58
Fujitsupersia: Right, that's what I've done. Just confirmed with ubotu that they're all right.04:59
HobbseeFujitsu: ah, right04:59
minghuaFujitsu: From beryl to compiz-fusion?05:00
Fujitsuminghua: The beryl-core bugs..05:01
AmaranthFujitsu: Don't05:05
AmaranthUnless there is a way to mass-reject bugs too05:06
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FujitsuAmaranth: What? I am mass-rejecting them...05:07
Amaranthoh, i thought you were moving them to compiz05:07
Amaranthi was going to get all stabby05:07
FujitsuEwww, no.05:08
FujitsuI'm not /that/ stupid.05:08
AmaranthYou wouldn't have been the first person to think of it05:08
FujitsuReally? Wow.05:08
minghuaI think it's my question that caused confusion, sorry.05:09
FujitsuI find Compiz a tad more stable than Beryl.05:09
AmaranthWe're trying :)05:09
FujitsuI've been using it with little trouble for three weeks now.05:09
Amaranthbtw, if you don't like gnome-session stalling for 2 minutes edit /usr/bin/compiz and remove --sm-disable05:09
=== Fujitsu hits the send button.
ScottKHah.  persia - beat you by 5 seconds.05:11
FujitsuScottK: In what?05:11
ScottKReplying to the MOTU merge process email.05:12
AmaranthFujitsu: are you getting beryl removed from the archive then?05:12
FujitsuAmaranth: It vanished about 14 hours ago.05:12
FujitsuThere are 3 bits remaining, which I filed a removal request for a couple of hours back.05:12
Amaranththis is probably really mean but...05:12
=== Amaranth dances and cheers
persiaScottK: No contest: we're discussing entirely parallel things :)  Anyway, the meeting discussion was only a determination that having a documented merge policy would be a good thing, and that ideas should be discussed for the next meeting.05:13
ScottKpersia: Was joking.  Good to hear.05:13
FujitsuAmaranth: Ah, good. I was hoping it wasn't going to be some great rational for keeping it around.05:14
FujitsuI was like `Oh, crap... this doesn't look good'05:14
persiaScottK: Separately, do you think "last merger", "last uploader", and "last person to patch" are three different concepts, or just different facets of the same thing?05:14
ScottKFacets of the same thing.  Whoever touched it last.  Otherwise it gets too complex.05:15
ScottKThere are exceptions.  I wouldn't count rebuilds.05:15
FujitsuGaaaaah, mail server doesn't like me sending that many.05:15
persiaScottK: Hmm..  I wonder.  I've sent a few rebuilds in, for which I would have no idea how to process a merge, but which helped with library transitions, etc.  I'm also not sure about spelling corrections, .desktop files, dependency adjustments, etc.05:15
Amaranthlooks like spam05:15
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ScottKpersia: Yes, but then there have been cases where I fixed bugs that I wanted to make sure didn't get lost in the next merge.05:16
ScottKThe problem is how do you decide.05:16
minghuaTo copy a wiki page, no better way than just create an empty new page, press "edit" of old page, then copy and paste.  Right?05:16
persiaScottK: Yes.  I've had those (even in one case, where a .desktop file installation (but not the file itself) was dropped in a merge)05:17
ScottKI also think take backs after someone steals your package are fair.05:17
FujitsuScottK: In that case two wrongs do make a right.05:17
=== persia doesn't agree with the concept of package ownership
ScottKNot ownership, but the one that knows it best.05:17
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ScottKThe first time you have to merge a package it takes a while to reall grok the merge.  After that it gets easier and the error rate gets lower.05:18
TheMusoPersonally, the only packages I'd rather people not touch unless tey have asked me, are accessibility/speech packages.05:18
TheMusothey even05:18
ScottKPeople doing the same package consistently will give better quality.05:19
persiaPerhaps I need to be more clear.  When a good patch (or very intrusive patch, etc.) is made, the person making that patch is a good person with whom to discuss the implications.  For many fixes, it seems better to just apply the fix.  Merges are a little special, in my book, as there are usually undocumented justifications for the Debian diff.05:19
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ScottKTeam maintenance has advantages and disadvantages.  Consistency in doing the merges helps with the disadvantages.05:20
persiaTheMuso: Really?  How about someone correcting some spelling in a translation, etc.05:20
TheMusopersia: Well thats different, but most of the packages I work with don't carry a lot of that stuff, in Universe at least.05:20
persiaScottK: Yes!  That's why we need some documentation: it improves consistency.05:20
ScottKDocumenation is great.  I'm not opposed to it.05:21
minghua<sarcastic>Documentation is great as long as I am not required to write them.</sarcastic>05:21
ScottKThe person doing the merge being familiar with the package also improves consistency.05:22
ScottKI even write it sometimes.05:22
ScottKdocumentation that is.05:22
persiaTheMuso: Ah.  Depends on the package, I guess.  I've just had a couple contributors ask me because they didn't expect a merge for their two-line patch for something small (the case where it's too hard), but I also don't see any reason that a developer who usually follows a package shouldn't adopt without too much coordination with the author of the two line patch.05:22
persiaScottK: Yes, although familiarity != last to touch necessarily.05:23
ScottKThat's true.05:23
ScottKThe problem is give me an algorithm that useable for most familiar?05:23
ScottKLast to touch is excessively simplistic, but executable.05:23
persiaScottK: Exactly :)  I think that's the discussion AndyP is starting, which would be a good thing (but I need to think more before I have any suggestions).05:24
ScottKLast to touch plus some comments about take backs when appropriate would get us pretty well there.05:24
ScottKThe real problem is people who don't even bother to ask when there's no reason they can't.05:24
TheMusoBut the biggest problem is the fact that people just go and do the merge.05:25
persiaScottK: Also, should we follow last-to-touch for only merges, or for any uploads?  If I'm just rebuilding, how should I indicate that I don't want last-to-touch (except perhaps for the 10 days or so after the rebuild)?05:25
TheMusoScottK: yep05:25
persiaTheMuso: Yes.  Exactly.  And then we need to fix them :(05:25
ScottKpersia: If the changelog has the word build in the Debian revision, it doesn't count.05:25
persiaOn the other hand, I've had a few merges done this cycle that were helpful, did the right thing, and happened entirely while I slept, which I found convenient.05:26
TheMusoScottK: Aye. I have recently been syncing a lot of doko's rebuilds that were on MoM.05:26
=== Fujitsu complains that nobody has stolen azureus yet.
persiaScottK: How about -38-ubuntu6, where the last 5 were rebuilds?05:26
persiaFujitsu: I thought I saw a sync request today.  That should clear the last-touched bit :)05:26
Fujitsupersia: Really?05:26
=== Fujitsu looks.
ScottKNo automated algorithm will be both executable and cover all cases.05:26
TheMusopersia: I thought rebuilds only were buildx versioning.05:27
persiaScottK: Yep.  We need to find a best practice.05:27
FujitsuThat'll never get accepted... There are Ubuntu changes.05:27
FujitsuThough it might be best to just start afresh.05:27
persiaTheMuso: Yes, but we don't use -1ubuntu1build1, preferring instead -1ubuntu2.05:27
=== ScottK hopes AndyP is taking notes.
TheMusopersia: Oh for ubuntu modified packages, sure.05:27
persiaTheMuso: Which flips the last-touched bit for the rebuilder :)05:28
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ScottKgpocentek: In response to your last e-mail, his work continues to be error prone and he's defensive about it -1.05:29
TheMusoScottK: Do you mean andrea?05:30
=== ScottK has touched a debdiff and a sync request and they both needed a little work.
gpocentekScottK: could you reply on the list?05:30
TheMusoYeah I've had to prompt about a few things when I've worked with him as well.05:30
ScottKI will if TheMuso does too.05:30
gpocentekif you're not confortable with it forget it05:31
TheMusoScottK: I've already said enough I think. Other people have raised questions about his work quality.05:31
=== ScottK will do it.
ScottKgpocentek: Was kidding.05:31
gpocentekhehe ok :)05:31
=== persia hasn't seen much channel traffic either, but hasn't been sponsoring the work, so feels unqualified to have an official opinion
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teer2Hello all - thanks for your continued hard work keeping the packages maintained.  I used Synaptic to install Democracy Player - as always, smooth install, but the version is (in some ways) not compatible with their servers since it is a few revs behind.  I was wondering where the responsibility falls to get updates into Synaptic?  Should I go poke the Democracy Player developers to get something to the Ubuntu MOTU folk, or how does th05:34
ScottKSent.  He's also the one that got pissy about stealing merges.05:34
ScottKgpocentek: How was that?05:36
TheMusoScottK: Out of the contributers we are working with, there are one or two who I feel aren't working with the rest of the MOTU team, andrea being one of those.05:36
persiateer2: You'll do best to open a bug report in LP.  If the gutsy DP isn't compatible with the servers, it'll likely get fixed really soon.  If a released version isn't compatible, we'll need to work out a plan to keep up to date, which might take a while, but a bug is still the best way to start.05:36
=== ScottK agrees.
teer2persia: I am running Feisty - if that makes a difference.  Eagerly awaiting the Gusty release!05:37
ScottK!backports | teer205:37
ubotuteer2: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging05:37
persiaPersonally, I'd like to see those applying to become MOTU demonstrate more work with those still learning, to demonstrate the ability to provide strong solutions.05:37
TheMusopersia: Thats not a bad idea at all. I like it.05:37
ScottKPersonally, I'm still stunned I got in.05:37
TheMusoScottK: You shouldn't be.05:38
teer2ScottK: Ooooh, I see!  Thanks.05:38
persiaScottK: Isn't "the released version isn't compatible with the servers" a sufficient bug for -updates?  Perhaps we need a special ubuntu-DP server, or closer coordination with upstream.05:38
ScottKShouldn't be stunned or shouldn't have gotten in.05:38
TheMusoScottK: Shouldn't be stunned, sorry.05:38
ScottKpersia: Then make a patch with just the changed that makes it compatible with the servers.  That would qualify for updates.05:39
TheMusoI haven't worked with andrea this period.05:39
persiaScottK: You spent months helping everyone get python packages in line, did a whole bunch of packages (mostly correctly, and all correctly after a bit), and were very active in the community.  I don't think it was a real question (which is how it should be).05:39
TheMusoProbably because he got annoyed at my comments.05:39
ScottKpersia and TheMuso thanks.05:39
persiaScottK: Right.  I don't know enough about it and don't use it, but I'm guessing a bug is the way to get started (at least it would be for a package I know something about)05:39
ScottKBut this reminds me, I was going to test build the new gnash for backports tonight.  I better get on that.05:40
teer2fyi, I get this error message when trying to add a DP channel: "To subscribe to this channel, you need Democracy Player.05:40
teer2 Don't have Democracy Player installed? Download it now..."  That doesn't happen on all the channels, btw.  DP otherwise functions normally.05:40
teer2Thanks again!05:41
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teer2Hi again, I just checked the dependencies, and the new version of DP requires a new version of libc6, so it probably is not worth the trouble to push the new version on Feisty users!  Thanks again.05:46
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=== ScottK wishes he'd stuck around a bit.
=== persia would really appreciate 1) bugs being discussed on #ubuntu-bugs, 2) bugs being filed for all issues (even minor ones), and 3) that people would actually participate in discussions.
=== Fujitsu would really appreciate being easily able to mark bugs as upstream
ScottKFujitsu: I think that's coming.05:48
FujitsuScottK: They're not working to improve the use case where there is no upstream product defined, AFAIK.05:49
ScottKAh.  Well that's pretty useless then.05:49
persiaFujitsu: Does the upstream link code not work for you?  I agree it's a little frustrating to set up for a new package, but I think it works nicely once it's set up (e.g. most of GNOME or KDE).05:49
ScottKOf course that use case wouldn't help the world domination plan.05:50
=== TheMuso returns with food.
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FujitsuIf I'm plowing through hundreds of bugs, I really can't be bothered registering a couple of hundred new products.05:50
persiaNow I'm confused.  Personally, I don't understand it, but I've seen RainCT register upstream bugtrackers for at least 10 packages, so it clearly doesn't either require special permissions, or require secret knowledge05:51
FujitsuIn Debian, you just tag it forwarded.05:51
Fujitsupersia: It takes a lot more time than just tagging it.05:51
persiaFujitsu: Ah.  I see.  Yes, for 1000 bugs, it's annoying.05:51
FujitsuWe have 6500 bugs over several thousand packages, with maybe a hundred or less of those having projects registered.05:51
=== persia wonders if registering upstream bugtrackers would be a good additional task for bugsquad.
persiaDoes anyone know if BugSquad has policy meetings, or where, or when?05:52
=== ScottK ponders persia establishing an ubuntu-upstream-bugtracker-registration team.
FujitsuI don't think so, persia.05:52
FujitsuScottK: Hah, that'd be nice.05:52
persiaScottK: It's not worth registering a team.  I'll just ping Mr. QA during the week, and update the wiki.05:52
ScottKpersia: Just ping bdmurray on #ubuntu-bugs.05:52
persiaScottK: This time I beat you (although only by 1 second) :)05:53
FujitsuIt'd be nice to have a one-click create-a-basic-project button, and it goes into a queue somewhere to have more useful details added later.05:53
ScottKYep, so it's still +4 for me.05:53
persiaFujitsu: Agreed.  is there a bug open about that?05:53
ubotuLaunchpad bug 125788 in malone "Add link to bugs needing forwarding upstream for a product" [High,Confirmed]  05:53
Fujitsupersia: I don't think so05:53
=== persia plots trying to define a jp106 dvorak keyboard layout to regain those four seconds
FujitsuI've brought it up in #launchpad a couple of times, and they just say it won't be a problem once everything is registered.05:54
persiaFujitsu: There you go then.  Now, as this is a previously addressed problem: please file a bug :)05:54
=== Fujitsu tries to not stab someone.
Hobbseepersia: bugsquad doesnt have meetings05:54
FujitsuAh, the beryl-core bug page looks lovely :)05:54
Hobbseepersia: but remember - most of the bugsquad moves to doing packaging anyway05:55
persiaHobbsee: I thought they used to have them, but I hadn't seen any since bughelper was started, so I wondered....05:55
Hobbseepersia: not sure...i havent seen any in a *long* time05:55
persiaHobbsee: Eventually.  For particulaly slow people, that can take years.05:55
=== persia is such a particularly slow person
Hobbseebah.  or just underconfident.05:56
persiaHobbsee: Depends.  It's often easier to file a good bug, perhaps with a patch or replication code than to actually fix the problem.05:56
=== Hobbsee shrugs
=== minghua is not particularly fond of filing bugs in LP
persiaminghua: But you still use sid, don't you?05:57
minghuaI've filed a bug against dapper after testing installation a few days after release, got no responses, and was asked if it's reproducible on feisty one year later.05:58
Hobbseeminghua: that's a general problem with universe bugs, remember?05:59
minghuapersia: Yes, I stopped using Ubuntu as daily system a bit after edgy release.05:59
Hobbseeminghua: you're not really going to get away from that, unless you get more people involved in triaging05:59
=== ScottK has found Ubuntu has a lot fewer annoying bugs since I started fixing the ones that were bugging me.
gpocentekScottK: thanks for your reply05:59
persiaminghua: That's just bad luck.  Most of my bugs got responses, and were solved within the release cycle.05:59
ScottKYou're welcome.05:59
HobbseeScottK: do you have, and use, an account on alioth?06:00
minghuaHobbsee: I remember.  I'm not exactly blaming the developers, I know they are busy.  I am just saying such experiences makes me wary of filing bugs against unfamiliar packages.06:00
minghuaI just don't know if there is a developer that looks at the bugs regularly.06:00
Hobbseeminghua: i hope you're filing those bugs to debian instead, then06:00
ajmitchminghua: unlikely06:00
ScottKHobbsee: I do.06:01
HobbseeScottK: good.06:01
HobbseeScottK: with debian kde extras, i presume, shoving all applicable kde stuff back up there?06:01
minghuaActually, the same applies to Debian.  If I report bugs to one package and the maintainer doesn't reply, after one or two bugs I stop filing them (if not stop using the package).06:02
ScottKNo, Debian Python Modules Team.06:02
minghuaajmitch: For some packages there are.  I look at the bugs of my Debian packages regularly.06:02
persiaminghua: One way to check is to look for bug subscribers for the package.  Most of us who care about specific packages have subscribed to the package bugs, which increases the chance we'll see it.06:02
HobbseeScottK: ah.  please do it for kde packages that you see and touch, too.06:02
ScottKHobbsee: Up until I started doing the S/MIME stuff, I'd never really done much for KDE.06:02
Hobbseefair enough06:02
minghuaHobbsee: I don't file bugs to Debian before I reproduce them on Debian.  But I agree on your point.06:03
Hobbseeminghua: right, yeah06:03
ScottKDo I need to go back and send the S/MIME dependency changes to alioth?06:03
HobbseeScottK: well, if you think taht debian should also ahve the same functionality, that would be useful, yes....06:04
persiaScottK: Have you been granted write-access to the debian-kde-extras repository?06:04
ScottKpersia: No.  I haven't asked.06:04
HobbseeScottK: you should06:04
ScottKOK.  Ask > TODO.06:04
persiaScottK: I'm pretty sure it's easy to get in for kubuntu members06:04
minghuapersia: That's a good point.  But I am subscribed to some packages' bugmail without understanding it really, and don't reply bugmails.  I only monitor them in case I can reproduce the bug on Debian.  So bugmail subscriber is not a sure thing.06:05
ScottKI should also look into filing patches in BTS for the gnupg stuff too if it's relevant.06:05
persiaminghua: True, but it's at least a hint.06:06
ScottKI actually had a very pleasant experience as an upstream today with Debian.  The libspf2 maintainer e-mailed and asked for comments on two patches he'd gotten.06:06
=== persia thinks most Debian maintainers are good at working with upstream
ScottKGood night everyone.  I'm going to bed.06:11
TheMusoNight ScottK.06:11
Hobbseenight ScottK 06:11
persiaOK.  I think I'd like to process a sync, but I'm getting an md5sum mismatch on the Debian package.  Any suggestions on this?  Would it be appropriate to repack, or should it be ignored as likely compromised?06:12
Hobbseepersia: as in, are you asking about the packaging in debina, or it for ubuntu?06:14
Hobbseepersia: you'll have to fakesync it06:14
Fujitsupersia: You mean the Debian package won't unpack?06:15
FujitsuYou sure you're not using the Ubuntu .orig.tar.gz?06:15
minghuaSounds like different .orig.tar.gz.06:15
persiaHobbsee: Last update was a sync.  New update would be a sync, but the Debian package fails the md5sum check.  I'm just not sure if Ubuntu particularly cares.  If it's not important, I'll fakesync.  If it's important, I'll bug Debian about fixing it.06:15
persiaFujitsu: Yes.  New upstream in Debian, orig.tar.gz downloaded with dget from unstable.06:16
minghuapersia: Which package?06:16
persiaminghua: bochs06:16
Hobbseepersia: is the upstream version distributed as a .tar.bz2?06:16
persiaHobbsee: Looks like a snapshot06:16
Hobbseeokay, so where does the md5sum mismatch occur?06:17
persiaHobbsee: md5sum for .orig.tar.gz in dsc doesn't match the output of md5sum locally.06:18
minghuapersia: 2.3+20070705-2 unpacks fine here.06:18
=== Fujitsu_ [n=Fujitsu@c58-107-52-79.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu
=== persia is bothered and disturbed
minghua9b532803fcab3626a007f2f83a6fc921  bochs_2.3+20070705.orig.tar.gz06:18
StevenKpersia: We knew that.06:18
=== StevenK ducks.
persiaminghua: Do you get 5f527e3e7ae6cbbb534e9454f1deb705 as the md5sum for the orig.tar.gz?06:18
minghuaThat's my download as well as what the .dsc says.06:19
TheMusoStevenK: lol06:19
minghuapersia: sounds like corrupted download on your side.06:19
=== persia pours noxious substances on the floor, making ducking people stand up
=== Hobbsee defenestrates persia
persiaminghua: Really?  My dsc says 9b532803fcab3626a007f2f83a6fc921, but the signature is valid, making me think the download isn't corrupt.06:20
Hobbsee***anyone who is bored, please fix stuff on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/gutsy_probs.html - StevenK, myself, and any other main people, can sponsor changes ***06:20
minghuapersia: Alas.  I meant "9b532803fcab3626a007f2f83a6fc921" is my download as well as the .dsc says.06:20
persiaminghua: Hrm.  I'll try again.  Perhaps it's just an error on one mirror (I've gotten the same error with multiple downloads).06:21
minghuapersia: so, corrupt .orig.tar.gz download for you.06:21
StevenKHobbsee: Can I? :-P06:21
HobbseeStevenK: yes.06:21
=== StevenK will look at festival in a sec.
persiaHobbsee: I'll fix all those iff you can get someone to regularly regenerate gutsy_universe_probs.html06:22
Hobbseepersia: hmm...possible, i expect.06:22
StevenKpersia: They tried that. It took like 6 hours06:22
Hobbseepersia: but debcheck provides a nicer output06:22
persiaStevenK: Once a day (or even twice a week) would be better than never.06:22
Fujitsu6 hourly.06:23
=== persia thinks that should be added to the MOTU resource list somewhere, and hosted by our dear sponsors, rather than a dedicated volunteer
minghuaFujitsu: Is that your page?  Nice.06:24
persiaHobbsee: OK.  I guess I have some work pending then :)  festival first.06:24
=== Fujitsu has been noticing festival held back.
Hobbseepersia: yeah, well.  we'll see.06:24
TheMusoFujitsu: You have festival installed?06:25
persiaFujitsu: Would you mind advertising that in the ubuntu-motu@ thread about tools?06:25
FujitsuTheMuso: I do.06:26
FujitsuNot sure why.06:26
Fujitsupersia: I'll reply to that thread now.06:26
persiaFujitsu: Thanks.06:26
FujitsuIt seems to actually be working now.06:26
=== persia wishes gedbi had fewer dependencies: it'd be nice to use gdebi broken.deb in a chroot
=== TheMuso attacks the debcheck list to fix packages broken on powerpc.
=== StevenK fixes festival, and sighs at the Debian maintainer.
TheMusoStevenK: ??06:31
StevenKsysv-rc is Priority: required, and yet he Depends on the highest version he can.06:32
minghuaHmm, what is the verb for "officialize"?06:33
Hobbseeto make official?06:33
FujitsuI think Hobbsee is correct.06:33
Hobbseei cant think of anything else06:33
minghuaI'll use that then,  thanks Hobbsee.06:33
=== Fujitsu has been mostly working on things with broken depends on all archs.
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persiaStevenK: Hey!  I was fixing the festival dependencies.  I'll leave it to you then :(06:36
=== persia looks for another package
=== minghua likes Chinese for having an "-ize" way for all adjectives, at least in not-very-official occasions.
minghuaI think we stole that from Japanese.06:36
=== persia claims libvirt
TheMusoFOund a python package that is arch all, but requires a package only on amd64/i386.06:39
TheMusoSo is uninstallable on powerpc.06:40
Nafallois someone packaging powertop?06:41
Nafallooh. it's in Debian.06:41
StevenKpersia: libvirt requires some Xen muscles06:41
persiaErm.  That's fixed too, and most of these use germinate, which bothers me.06:42
persiaStevenK: Right - those are in 2.6.22-8, and -0ubuntu1 is depwait on them now :)06:42
=== persia tries to claim kdepimlibs, fully expecting it to be done by another
Hobbseepersia: not sure if riddell's already touching that, or if it's installable as of the upload last night06:46
Hobbseenot positive on when that was regenerated last06:46
persiaHobbsee: At first glance, it looks like last night's upload works :(06:47
persiaHobbsee: My apologies, but I'm not sure there's much left for non core-dev to do.  RCS & LVM is sacred, -meta requires write-access to the seeds (or perhaps just run update), and GNOME gets lots of updates from upstream on a regular basis.06:48
FujitsuNafallo: We've had powertop in Ubuntu for a couple of months.06:50
=== ubotu [n=ubotu@ubuntu/bot/ubotu] has joined #ubuntu-motu
StevenKpersia: -meta might mean that one of the dependancies isn't installable06:51
=== persia goes to dig into why -meta is broken, thinking that there aren't supposed to be any dependencies, only recommends
Hobbseepersia: not sure that they were respun06:51
Hobbseewith the seed changes06:52
Hobbseepersia: no problem06:52
persiaHobbsee: That's my thought.  There were lots of changes committed recently, and a new germinate, but -meta hasn't been refreshed.06:52
Hobbseepersia: because we expected more changes, before the respin :)06:52
persiaHobbsee: Sure.  I'm not surprised, it's just that I don't think it's worth a debdiff - it's easier for a core-dev to run update and expect it to work (unless anastacia has lost her mind)06:53
ajmitchpersia: what are you doing with libvirt?06:53
Hobbseepersia: oh yes, of course06:53
persiaajmitch: Nothing.  Chuck uploaded a fix for the installation failure, and it's just waiting on the Xen fixes, which Ben has been chasing.06:54
ajmitchit's a package that I initially did06:54
=== StevenK waits for festival to get published.
FujitsuHas anybody here got mod rights over the MOTU ML? I posted from the wrong address, it seems.06:56
minghuapersia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2007-07-14 is my first draft06:56
=== ajmitch probably does
ajmitchthough I'd have to hunt down a list password06:56
minghuapersia: It still needs work (finish the other topic section, adding links, spellchecking), but I hope I covered all discussions.06:57
minghuapersia: And I'll be leaving for home soon.  Will work on it when I get home.06:57
ajmitchFujitsu: done06:57
Fujitsuajmitch: Danke.06:58
minghuaAny other MOTU meeting attendee is also welcomed to check the minute draft.06:58
StevenKpersia: What I was saying about -meta seems to hold true for ubuntu-meta on gutsy_probs. ubuntu-desktop can't be installed on Sparc, since gnome-session can't be.06:59
persiaminghua: 1) AndyP's mail was post-meeting, 2) Next Q&A belongs in Upcoming Events.  3) I think the effort to cover Outstanding merges before UVF got merged into the larger merge discussion (and kicked it off, as I recall), 4) "More efficient HUG Days" needs attribution, and might belong with the HUG day schedule annoucement.  Otherwise, looks great.06:59
StevenKAs well as gnome-power-manager06:59
persiaStevenK: Right.  I just don't have a handy sparc :)07:00
StevenKI do, but it's a gutless wonder. :-)07:00
TheMusoIs sparky still up?07:00
persiaStevenK: Can it install things?  It might take a couple days, but Fabio would likely bless you for fixing it :)07:00
NafalloFujitsu: why didn't you say when I showed the link to you? :-907:01
persiaTheMuso: Yep, but the keyring hasn't been refreshed in at least 6 weeks.07:01
StevenKsparky isn't much quicker than my sparc.07:01
FujitsuNafallo: I presumed you would know.07:01
NafalloFujitsu: hehe.07:02
=== Fujitsu has only received two annoyed emails about the beryl removal so far.
StevenKFujitsu: Oh?07:02
NafalloFujitsu: haven't even got a laptop myself. running it on my desktop now :-)07:02
persiaFujitsu: Why so many?07:02
NafalloWakeups-from-idle per second : 1614,2   interval: 10,0s07:02
FujitsuNafallo: Ouch.07:02
NafalloFujitsu: update-manager ;-)07:02
FujitsuI wonder how I'm doing... Compiz is unlikely to be helping.07:02
minghuapersia: 2 is just stupid typo and fixed.  Will fix 1 on next edit.  3 and 4 are in "other topic" section because there were no conclusions.  I deliberately kept discussion and event dates separate.07:03
=== StevenK watches sparky chug along
AmaranthFujitsu: compiz doesn't hurt07:03
=== StevenK coughs up a lung
TheMusoStevenK: You will miss it.07:03
Amaranthit adds 60 or so if you use intel since it does an interrupt on vblank (your refresh rate)07:04
FujitsuAmaranth: Something is causing my i915 interrupt to cause wakeups 200 times a second.07:04
Amaranthand compiz itself has a timer that adds 407:04
FujitsuI think Compiz might just be it, y'know?07:04
AmaranthFujitsu: did you tell compiz your refresh rate was 200?07:04
StevenKTheMuso: Yeah, but not right now.07:04
FujitsuIt's down to about 100 now...07:04
FujitsuStill rather high.07:04
StevenKAh ha.07:06
TheMusoStevenK: Let me know when you've finished with sparky. I will need some of his CPU cycles soon.07:06
minghuaI am heading home.  See you guys later.07:07
NafalloFujitsu: ^ :-)07:07
Amaranthsomething on my system flips out and causes like 80000 wakeups and locks me in C0 unless i disable my second core07:07
Amaranthhappens after a certain amount of time and killing everything (literally, everything) doesn't fix it07:07
Amaranthand nothing shows up in the list to explain it07:08
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Hobbseeokay, kdelibs hates me07:08
Amaranthweird, i'm up to 40007:09
StevenKTheMuso: All done.07:09
TheMusoStevenK: Thanks.07:09
ScottKDoes Ubuntu care about Optional stuff depending on stuff in Extra?07:09
StevenKI suspect so.07:09
FujitsuScottK: It doesn't look like it.07:09
StevenKHold on, weren't you going to bed?07:09
FujitsuThere is an enormous amount of stuff broken like that.07:10
=== ScottK was.
FujitsuStevenK: I thought so.07:10
Nafallo"The Pidgin (GAIM) instant messaging client checks every 5 seconds if you have been idle more than 10 minutes"...07:10
StevenKNafallo: Kwality07:10
Fujitsu617 sources with binaries with broken priorities.07:10
Nafalloindeed :-)07:10
ScottKWhere would the policy be written?  Packaging guide?07:11
persiaScottK: I think we inherit from Debian policy on this.07:11
Nafallo"In addition to this, it will also ask the X server every 5 seconds if the X server supports the X screensaver extension"07:12
NafalloI will NEVER use pidgin :-)07:12
FujitsuNice, nice.07:12
ScottKWell we're serous broken then I guess.07:12
ScottKRight.  The question is does Ubuntu care?07:13
FujitsuIt's even a `must not'.07:13
=== Fujitsu fixes a couple of spelling mistakes in debcheck.
Nafalloaha. pidgin is already fixed for those :-)07:14
ScottKIs there a process for changing priority or is it just file a bug with a debdiff and convince Hobbsee to upload it?07:14
HobbseeScottK: for what, sorry?07:14
FujitsuScottK: It's overrides...07:15
ScottKHobbsee: Stuff that is optional depending on stuff that's extra07:15
Hobbseei'm not sure...07:15
persiaFujitsu: Is it overrides for all 617, or might some have an incorrect Priority setting?07:15
lifelessallo allo07:15
Hobbseehi lifeless!07:15
TheMusoHeya lifeless.07:16
FujitsuHi lifeless.07:16
lifelesshi, hi, hi :)07:16
TheMusoStevenK: You didn't update the gutsy pbuilder on sparky?07:16
=== TheMuso shakes head.
ScottKI guess I also wonder about debcheck whining about stuff in Main recommending Universe stuff.  Is that a problem?07:17
FujitsuScottK: I don't know of a policy on that.07:17
persiaI thought "Recommends" we acceptable (but neither Depends: nor Build-Depends:).07:17
HobbseeScottK: er...good question07:17
FujitsuIt is a good question, though.07:17
FujitsuEspecially with the automatic installation these days.07:17
Hobbseerecommends are currently acceptable, as long as it's not a metapackage - but who knows if that will change07:17
ScottKpersia: Me too, but debcheck complains.07:17
=== persia likes actual public written policies
Hobbseeoh bleh07:18
=== Hobbsee kicks germinate
persiaWithout Recommends, we'll either have a lot more in main, or Universe will be less obviously useful to users.07:19
=== Fujitsu can remove that complaint if wished.
lifelessHobbsee: water it:)07:19
=== ScottK agrees.
FujitsuIt's just there because it was there in Debian.07:19
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Hobbseelifeless: it's dying, because it's thinking my lp id is sarah, not hobbsee, which is what my ssh key is under.07:20
persiaFujitsu: Would you?  Ideally, everything there should be a request for an upload, no?07:20
lifelesstime to check the code for environment variables :)07:20
ScottKFujitsu: Can you somehow remove it for non-meta packages and keep it for metapackages?07:20
Hobbseelifeless: yes.  it's tryign a standard bzr checkout, without using teh hobbsee@...07:20
persiaHobbsee: Always use the same username for everything :)07:20
Hobbseelifeless: true.  this worked before, i thought07:20
FujitsuScottK: Possibly. I'll see if I have that info.07:20
lifelessHobbsee: oh, easy answer -ssh alias07:20
ScottKFujitsu: That would be the thing to do if you can (I think).07:21
Hobbseelifeless: Oh?07:21
lifelessHost bazaar.launchpad.net:07:21
lifeless    user hobsee07:21
lifelessoh, no colon, but otherwise right07:21
lifelessand spell your nick right too ;)07:21
=== persia also recommends s/H/h/
Hobbseelifeless: i do vaguely consider just taking ~sarah :P07:22
Hobbseelifeless: assuming that works...presumably that wont effect the checkotus that have hobbsee@bazaar...etc?07:24
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FujitsuHobbsee: You'll need to rebind those.07:24
HobbseeFujitsu: rebind how?07:25
Fujitsubzr bind sftp://sarah@baz...07:25
Hobbseelifeless: that's working, thanks.07:26
HobbseeFujitsu: oh, i meant "assuming that the .ssh/config change works, that means i wont need to change the checkouts that have hobbsee@bazaar...."07:26
FujitsuAh, right.07:26
Hobbseenot the changing to ~sarah07:26
lifelesssound't need to rebind anytrhing07:27
lifelessbest to not have usernames in the urls anyhow ;)07:27
=== ScottK notices he just got slammed by laserjock on the motu list.
=== Fujitsu noticed that a while ago.
=== Fujitsu checks for more angry Beryl users.
=== ScottK wasn't checking e-mail.
AmaranthFujitsu: 'more'?07:30
=== ScottK is doing insomnia, not being productive.
Amaranthyou've already gotten angry beryl users?07:30
FujitsuI had a couple of emails complaining.07:30
FujitsuAnd one who said their bug was still present in compiz-fusion and moved it over there.07:31
Burgundaviaberyl users angry?07:31
Burgundaviawhy so?07:31
Amaranthwhy mass-reject anyway? the package is gone07:31
Amaranthdon't the bugs go away?07:31
Burgundaviawhy mass reject?07:31
FujitsuAmaranth: To kill off about 200 universe bugs?07:31
FujitsuNo, they stay there.07:31
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AmaranthBurgundavia: because beryl is gone07:31
Burgundaviabut they might be compiz-fusion bugs07:32
Burgundaviatag them as needinof and close them in two weeks07:32
ScottKBurgundavia: Where's the convenient LP interface for that?07:32
BurgundaviaScottK: I wish07:32
Burgundaviayou coudl do it via the email interface07:33
Amaranthi even gave up on email07:33
ScottKThat's what Fujitsu did and even then it was painful.07:33
FujitsuThe mail server didn't like 150 recipients :(07:33
HobbseeScottK: laserjock does have a point though07:33
ScottKHobbsee: I agree.  There's a balance to be had.  07:33
FujitsuBurgundavia: It's most likely that we're going to get those crashes reported again if they're still present in compiz fusion.07:34
ScottKFor me it seems like it's just a polite thing to do.  "Hey, you merged this last time.  Do you mind if I do it?"07:34
BurgundaviaFujitsu: but what about the feature requests? what about the usability bugs?07:34
FujitsuIt seems polite because that's how the policy works at the moment.07:34
TheMusoScottK: Yeah. Usually the person in questions says go for it.07:34
BurgundaviaI would be seriously pissed if my bugs were closed without anything07:35
ScottKHobbsee: You may recall I merged several of your packages for Feisty and you never said no, yet I always asked.07:35
BurgundaviaScottK: there was a blog post about this, when gaim did it07:35
Burgundaviait is ok to tag them needsinfo and then close them07:35
HobbseeScottK: true :)07:35
ScottKThat's different though, that was just a name change.  This is a removal.07:35
FujitsuYou can be fairly sure that all gaim bugs will be in pidging.07:35
HobbseeScottK: i will only say no if i have some other reason07:36
BurgundaviaScottK: no, it is not07:36
BurgundaviaScottK: it is pretty much the same source07:36
=== ScottK thought it was pretty much compiz source.
ScottKNot beryl.07:36
Burgundaviaberyl was still mostly compiz07:36
FujitsuWhy did Beryl crash so much more, then07:37
Hobbseeit seething with crack07:37
ScottKSure, but still bringing a fork back together is very different than a name change.07:37
Hobbseeer, it was seething wiht crack07:37
Burgundaviathe point of the matter is that it is extremely rude and is likely to turn off some people from further contributions07:38
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ScottKNot saying there aren't bugs in there that are valid still, but mass reject and rereport as needed seems like a good use of scarce time and talent.07:38
ScottKIt all depends on what Fujitsu said in the rejection mail.07:38
Burgundaviaif you are doing a mass reject, is it not as easy to mass reassign and tag as needs info?07:38
Burgundaviaespecially given Fujitsu did it via the email interface07:39
FujitsuI said that it was replaced by Compiz Fusion, so had been removed from Gutsy. A couple of them have already been responded to by the reported and moved to compiz-fusion.07:39
AmaranthBurgundavia: speaking of which, you should see if your bugs filed against compiz are still relevant :)07:39
BurgundaviaAmaranth: that I should07:39
ScottKAnd then do it again two weeks later after having to go through them all AGAIN to see which can be rejected.  It's the going through them again that eats the time.07:39
Amaranthi'm pretty sure i set them all the Incomplete and asked for a gutsy update07:39
BurgundaviaScottK: it is really not that hard, given we are trying to get the best compiz for gutsy07:39
BurgundaviaI can say this, having done it once07:40
ScottKOK.  Keep in mind I've already been accused of being bitter tonight.07:40
Burgundaviathe key point is that you don't want to piss people off, because you never know when you might be pissing off a potential contributor07:41
ScottKSure.  But (as with other things) there is a balance.  There is only so much manpower to do that work and using to much of it to avoid pissing off potential contributors is also counter productive.07:43
Burgundaviayes, but in this case it is almost the same amount of work07:43
ScottKErr X 2 is what it looks like from here.07:43
FujitsuThere's the initial move, then the waiting, then the looking through for replies, then the mass rejection (which would likely collect most of the bugs anyway, due to lack of response).07:44
ajmitchhello Burgundavia 07:45
Burgundaviahey ajmitch07:46
BurgundaviaFujitsu: but the replies are not much, given, as say, most are not going to reply07:46
ScottKBut you still have to go through them.07:48
Hobbseedarn it.  i've forgottne how to update the metapackages, with the changelog entries07:49
=== ScottK fires back at laserjock.
=== Fujitsu watches a bloody battle ensue.
ScottKHah.  Beat persia by 15 seconds that time.07:51
=== ScottK was nice.
=== ScottK didn't ask how much time he's spent here since he made core-dev.
ScottKDid I say that out loud?07:52
HobbseeScottK: just a thought - he may have had to step down for RL reasons, too.07:53
=== persia is down 19 now :(
ScottKSure.  That actually came out much more harsh than I was thinking.07:53
persiaScottK: I'd argue that any package that's hard to merge if the original uploader was hit by a bus would be a case of either a poor changelog, lack of comments in the patch, or the lack of README.Debian-source (but then, I'm a convert).07:56
persias/either/one of/07:56
ScottKTo an extent that's true, but if you know what to expect, you'll make fewer mistakes.07:58
TheMusopersia: Good call07:58
persiaScottK: That's true as well.  It's a matter of "targets of opportunity" vs. "personal responsibility".07:58
=== persia reiterates that merges should be the least important thing MOTUs do
ScottKAs a community cultural matter, I think it's polite to ask and polite to say OK, unless there's a good reason why not.  You might even say, "Sure, but watch out for po files in the diff.  Just edit them out."08:00
ScottKIt's kind of like when you go out to eat and one person's food comes late.  It's polite to ask them if they mind if you go ahead and polite for them to say no.08:01
persiaScottK: True, but if there's an issue like that, doesn't it belong in the changelog or in README.Debian-source?  I'm certainly more knowledgeable about a merge at the time I do it than at the time the next Debian upload happens, and I'd like not to feel I have to check an extra web page daily to see if there are pending changes that have been assigned to me.08:01
=== TheMuso is out for a walk. Back later.
=== Fujitsu notes the topic of .desktops has come up on debian-devel.
=== alex-weej [n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust237.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu
ScottKWell in the case I mentioned (courier) it's only an issue if you're a non-MOTU doing a debdiff, so it doesn't really go in the changelog.08:02
persiaFujitsu: Which network?08:02
=== tritium_ [n=tritium@ubuntu/member/tritium] has joined #ubuntu-motu
Fujitsupersia: The mailing list.08:03
=== persia relaxes, knowing it can be read later
persiaScottK: I must have missed that.  How does it matter?  What's special about courier?08:04
ScottKThere's something with the po files in that package that they show up in the debdiff even though the aren't changed. 08:04
ScottKIf you are merging and uploading it never comes up.08:05
ScottKI think it may have to do with line lengths, but I'm not sure.08:05
persiaScottK: They must be changing.  Perhaps they're updated and refeshed by clean: somehow?08:05
ScottKNo, when you look at the text, they are the same, just line wrapped differently.08:06
ScottKCourier is a seriously unhappy package in many ways.08:06
ScottKFujitsu: FYI, http://alt.qeuni.net/~william/debcheck/debcheck.php?list=ALL-light is 404.08:06
minghuaMeeting minute draft: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2007-07-1408:06
persiaAnyway, I think that's just a sponsorship detail.  I regularly pull config.sub and config.guess changes from debdiffs when sponsoring, I'm not sure how auto-regerated po files are different.08:06
FujitsuScottK: Oops, I thought I'd migrated everything.08:07
minghuapersia: "other topics" section are much more clear now.08:07
minghuaPlease review the minute draft, I'll be sending them in 30 minutes if no changes are required.08:07
FujitsuScottK: Fixed. It's in the template, so I didn't notice it.08:07
ScottKFujitsu: Glad to be of service.08:08
persiaminghua: Looks much better.  Thanks.  I still think that the remainder of the "other topics" section should have attribution to the person raising the topic, but that's not always been done in previous minutes.  Thanks a lot for drafting these.08:08
ScottKFujitsu: Yep.  Works here now.08:08
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minghuapersia: Sometimes it's kind of hard to attribute to a particular person.08:10
persiaminghua: Understood.08:10
=== ScottK considers another attempt at sleep.
FujitsuNight, ScottK.08:11
Hobbseesleep is overrated08:11
ScottKGood night.08:11
ScottKHobbsee: Sleep is for the weak.08:11
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minghuaHmm, so its "meeting minutes" even for only one document.08:17
persiaminghua: Yes.  Each item is considered a "minute", although there's usually poor correlation with typical time measurements.08:18
minghuapersia: I see that you send minutes to -motu and -devel-discuss.  Do you think -devel is better?08:19
minghuaThere is probably not much to discuss about the minutes.08:19
persiaminghua: I was just following the example of the two Daniels who had sent minutes for meetings before I started.  There's no intelligence involved in the distribution list.08:19
minghuaAnd I suspect few people subscribe/regularly read -devel-discuss.08:19
=== persia subscribes - traffic isn't that bad lately
=== Fujitsu reads -devel-discuss, but normally by means of the `mark all as read' button.
minghuaI'll send to -motu and -devel this time then, unless there is objection.08:20
=== persia wonders if the entire audience of -devel is really interested in the MOTU Meeting minutes
Hobbseepersia: ifnot, they can filter08:21
minghuaSpeaking of reading list, is there a key-binding in mutt for "mark current mail as read"?08:21
persiaHobbsee: filter on what?  It otherwise looks like a normal mail from a developer.08:21
Hobbseepersia: er, delete, sorry08:21
=== iceman__ [n=iceman@cable-87-244-153-189.upc.chello.be] has joined #ubuntu-motu
persiaHobbsee: Perhaps, but isn't it better to notify the right audience than encourage people to delete things?  I thought that was why we all moved from usenet to email 15 years ago.08:22
=== IanC26 [n=IanC26@2002:cb36:1c11:4:216:6fff:fe39:ff6e] has joined #ubuntu-motu
=== minghua thinks minutes to -devel arrives at more correct audience than those to -devel-discuss, but has to data to back up this idea.
Hobbseepersia: i'm unconvinced that there arent people wanting to watch motu stuff08:23
minghuas/to data/no data/08:24
=== persia thinks they should be subscribed to ubuntu-motu then
=== minghua leaves Cc: line open and waits persia and Hobbsee to argue. :-)
Hobbseeparticularly with the current pressure on doing some reviewing, from teh disto team, etc08:24
Hobbseethat being said - i havent seen the minutes yet08:25
=== Fujitsu wonders if he is going to get killed for getting new package indices from a.u.c 4 times a day.
minghuaHobbsee: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2007-07-14  # Please do!08:25
persiaHobbsee: Not really anything about reviewing - it's mostly Fixed Topics, and calls for discussion for the next meeting.08:25
Hobbseefair enough08:25
persiaHobbsee: I would argue that if there was something that was reviewing related, or otherwise of particular interest to a wider audience, someone should volunteer to draft a targeted message on the subject to ubuntu-devel@08:26
Hobbseefair enough08:26
=== Hobbsee files a bug.
minghuapersia: I am convinced, -devel-discuss then.08:27
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persiaI feel like a REVU.  Could anyone recommend a package that either 1) is nearly ready for upload, or 2) needs heaps of work (which allows me to autogenerate lots of comments)08:28
Hobbseepersia: start at the top...08:29
persiaHobbsee: Yeah, well.  Sometimes there are uploaders here who want reviews.  I like to reward attendance in #ubuntu-motu.08:29
Hobbseetrue :)08:29
Hobbseegrep the logs08:30
=== minghua wonders if he should upload a package for persia to review. :-P
FujitsuWhat was the decision on the need of REVU for MOTU?08:32
minghuaI don't really know.  I assumed since new package in REVU need two advocates, new package by MOTU needs another nod?08:33
persiaFujitsu: last I heard, the process for new packages by MOTUs was 1) upload to review, 2) wait for ACK, 3) upload to archive.08:34
FujitsuI remember a decision was made a while ago.08:34
persiaminghua: Right.  1 advocate should be enough, but the last couple I did had "second" ACK from the original uploader, so the NEW annoucement and actual upload were done by the original packager.08:34
=== persia doesn't ever package new software, so is less familiar with this process than with others
minghuapersia: What's your opinion of putting the text contents of meeting minutes in the mail?08:36
=== Fujitsu has created one entirely new package, and rewritten the packaging of another.
=== Hobbsee has never done a new package, fully
persiaminghua: It hasn't been done since I was MOTU, but it was done in the past.  I don't have a strong opinion either way.08:37
=== persia has repackaged lots of things, but those were all normal uploads & didn't require REVU or anything
man-dino leonel anymore08:40
persiaAnyone have an opinion about the libgpod refresh?  It's currently cross-subscribed to U-M-S and U-U-S: I'd be happy to help sponsor (but main should go first).08:40
man-dianyway, if someone needs sun-java6 6u2, doko should be doing this08:40
man-diwhen he gets the DLJ builds from SUN08:41
man-diwhich needd several months for 6u108:41
=== minghua did his first package completely wrong, and is still suffering for carrying all the baggages of working around previous errors. :-(
=== TheMuso returns
FujitsuHi TheMuso08:46
persiaHas anyone seen Bixente in the last while?08:46
=== jml [n=jml@] has joined #ubuntu-motu
persiaTheMuso: Thanks.08:48
TheMusoWHois doesn't help either.08:49
minghuaMeeting minutes sent.08:49
FujitsuThanks minghua08:49
TheMusominghua: Thanks.08:49
minghuaI do what I can. :-)08:49
minghuaThanks to you guys for fixing universe.08:50
FujitsuWe just watch it break and wait for Debian to fix it.08:51
man-diFujitsu: do you had time to look into the multidistrotools issue with packages only pesent in debian?08:51
Fujitsuman-di: Sure, I'll hunt out the link to pastebin.08:53
Bixentehi persia :)08:55
persiaBixente: Hi!  I just archived your grandr-applet upload from REVU, but wanted to make sure that nixternal was correct regarding the code: if your package enhances other things, etc. I'd be happy to unarchive.08:56
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=== minghua reads the merging policy thread and see heated discussions.
minghuaI think I'll join in.09:00
persiaminghua: Great!  The more pre-meeting discussion, the easier it will be to get consensus at the meeting.09:01
Fujitsuman-di: It seems to be throwing exceptions now when it gets a 404. I have no idea about anything other than basic Ruby.09:01
man-diFujitsu: at least you know basic Ruby ;-)09:01
FujitsuI only know it from trial and error when hacking up version2html :P09:02
man-diFujitsu: I only know it from its name...09:02
man-diwhat is the best way to get that fixed?09:02
FujitsuProbably catch the exception.09:02
FujitsuOr rescue, as I think it might be in ruby.09:03
man-diis someone an ruby expert here?09:03
Bixentepersia: np, I wanted to ask somebody to archive it.09:03
persiaBixente: Thanks for the confirmation.09:03
Fujitsuman-di: For now, it might be easiest to check if pl.b == 'NOTFOUND'09:04
man-diFujitsu: can you test this?09:04
=== Fujitsu wonders about the Ruby equivalent of Python's `continue'
FujitsuI think I'll just wrap it in a begin..rescue, and hope that works.09:06
FujitsuBah, I have no idea how to do this.09:09
FujitsuYou'll have to ask a Ruby god.09:09
FujitsuOr just disable the builds section for now.09:09
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FujitsuScottK2: To bed with you!09:10
Nightrosepersia: if you are still looking for something to revu: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6003 would love to get some comments ;-)09:10
persiaNightrose: Sure.  Thanks.09:11
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man-diFujitsu: I disable the buildssection for now. I just would like to have it09:14
man-diFujitsu: I will try to find a ruby god09:14
man-diFujitsu: Thanks for your help09:14
Fujitsuman-di: If you get it fixed, please either create a branch and ask me to merge from it, or send a patch.09:15
man-diFujitsu: will do09:15
FujitsuWhat do you use mdt for?09:16
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man-diFujitsu: making sure all Java packages are in sync or on a good way in Debian and Ubuntu09:17
FujitsuGood to see somebody taking care of them.09:17
BixenteI'm looking for someone to review this package : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5931, thanks09:18
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man-diFujitsu: thx09:20
persiaNightrose: commented.09:24
gpocentekBixente: looking09:24
gpocentek(if persia is not already on it)09:24
man-diFujitsu: the main reason I want this to work is: I requested a sync for eclipse, persia synced, some days later eclipse informed me that eclipse FTBFSed. I would really like to see this easily on my own09:25
persiagpocentek: Please feel free: I was just starting, but python policy compliance really isn't my forte :09:25
Bixentegpocentek: thanks :)09:25
gpocentekpersia: same for me :/ we'll ask ScottK-confused (ou ScottK2) for a second review ;)09:26
persiagpocentek: I believe that the reason there are no good nicks is because the owner is asleep :)09:26
gpocentekoh, he sleeps sometimes? incredible09:26
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Nightrosepersia: thx a lot - appreciate it09:31
persiaNightrose: Let me know if you get stuck with CDBS.  The package looks like a great target, with clean rules, but sometimes automation needs a hint :)09:32
Nightrosepersia: will do thx09:32
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gpocentekBixente: done (commented by persia too)09:36
persiaBixente: I didn't give it a full review, just stopped after gpocentek started.09:37
Bixentepersia: gpocentek thanks, I look09:38
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FujitsuCan anybody tell me what generates acinclude.m4?10:07
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StevenKDark, dark magic.10:08
FujitsuBecause the qt4 checking in qgis' instance is wrong.10:08
FujitsuI'm patching it manually for the moment, but wondering if something else is broken or it needs to be regenerated or similar.10:09
StevenKWhat does the auto manual say about acinclude.m4?10:09
StevenKNeat. The autobook doesn't know anything about acinclude10:11
=== Fujitsu waits for Debian to sort it out when Qt4.3 filters down to there.
=== StevenK cobbles together a MIR
FujitsuYay, PHP4 is being EOLed in December!10:13
=== Hobbsee EOL's Fujitsu
FujitsuSo they can't complaing at us for removing it for much longer.10:13
FlannelYay indeed.  Finally my hosting company will give me php5, and I'll have to stop hacking around OOP deficiencies10:14
FujitsuStevenK: Was it you who had evil PHP4-only code to maintain?10:14
vorlongenerating acinclude.m4 is out of scope for autotools; it's input to autotools, the same way configure.ac is10:14
Fujitsuvorlon: Ah, so it's constructed by upstream?10:14
=== persia thought php4 EOL was 2.8.2008. Can it be dropped for gutsy?
vorlonone assumes so10:15
StevenKpersia: php4 was killed in Feisty10:15
Hobbseewhat happens for php4 in dapper?10:15
Flannelpersia: 2.8.2008 > 2.10.0710:15
FujitsuHobbsee: It's not supported.10:15
FlannelHobbsee: We'll still maintain it, just like FF1.510:15
HobbseeFujitsu: oh, right, good10:16
=== persia points at json & others, and hunts to kill
HobbseeFujitsu: thought it was in main for some reason10:16
Fujitsu      php4 | 4:4.4.2-1build1 | dapper/universe | source, all10:16
StevenKI thought Firefox was 2.0 in Dapper now10:16
FlannelIn Dapper? Oh, I suppose it isnt.  Oh, right, apache1 is, php4 isnt10:16
persiaFlannel: Yes, but if it's EOL 2 months in, 18 months of support is hard :(10:16
FujitsuWe're unfortunately meant to be supporting it in Dapper until 2011, but I can't really see that happening.10:17
Flannelpersia: well, php4 was dropped entirely in feisty, so it's moot.10:17
FlannelStevenK: why would 2.0 be backported to dapper?10:18
StevenKFlannel: I thought it was. It seems I remembered wrongly.10:18
Flanneler, I mean, if it was, it would be in -backports, not in main10:18
FujitsuStevenK: Urgh, no.10:18
FujitsuYou know how bad that would be?10:18
StevenKShush, I'm sick.10:19
FujitsuFlannel: -backports and main are not comparable.10:19
FlannelFujitsu: right, I'm aware.  Which is why it being in -backports is quite different than main, but even if it were to be backported, it would only be in -backports10:19
FujitsuIt's backports vs. release/updates/security, not backports vs. main.10:19
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FlannelFujitsu: got references for that?  Since, I obviously misunderstand something10:21
FlannelOr, just anywhere I'd look for an explanation, instead of badgering you10:21
Fujitsurelease/updates/security/backports are pockets. main/restricted/universe/multiverse are components. Pockets contain components.10:22
=== persia finally understands what "pocket" means.
Flannelhmm.  right.  I suppose they do occupy different spots in repository config lines.  I suppose I've never made that connection before10:23
=== minghua is with persia.
FujitsuPocket is Soyuz-speak. I'm not sure if it's ever used elsewhere.10:24
minghuaI always understood them as two different dimensions before.10:24
persiaFujitsu: Well, it's used lots of places, but it only carries that meaning in Soyuz.10:26
Fujitsupersia: Right, that's what I meant.10:26
FujitsuAnd there's also the proposed pocket, which I managed to leave out of that list somehow.10:26
persiaFujitsu: While you're giving a lesson in Soyuz-speak, what's the correct term for something that contains a set of pockets for a given name (e.g. Dapper)?10:28
Fujitsudistrorelease is the code name, and generally used by LP people.10:28
persiaSo distrorelease > pocket > component, right?10:29
FujitsuThen section > sourcepackage > sourcepackagerelease10:29
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StevenKWhich means a distrorelease is a coat, which contains many pockets?10:29
FujitsuStevenK: Definitely.10:29
persiaSo, if each coat is given a number, what do we call a collection of coats?  Distribution?  Closet?10:31
StevenKWhen is Ubuntu coming out of the closet?10:31
=== StevenK runs and hides.
=== persia thinks the official reason is "As soon as it's feasible"
=== Fujitsu takes some heavy components out of the pockets and throws them at StevenK.
StevenKpersia: :-P10:32
persiaNo, but seriously, what is the term for "Ubuntu", "Kubuntu", etc?  Are these just flavors?  If flavors, of what are they a flavor?  What is the term for Dapper, Edgy, Feisty, and Gusty as a combined unit?10:33
=== persia lost some u's in there somewhere
FujitsuAh... THey're just flavours, they don't really fit in anywhere.10:34
Fujitsupersia: I think the combination of distroreleases is just.. Ubuntu.10:34
persiaFujitsu: OK.  Ignoring the flavours then, what is a collection of distroreleases as part of a common thread called?10:34
FujitsuA distro.10:34
persiaOK.  At that point, we get into "Also affects distribution", and so there's no longer enough commonality to need collections.  Thanks.10:35
FujitsuIt's a little confusing, as Ubuntu is both a flavour and distro.10:35
persiaFujitsu: That's just namespace collision.  "Ubuntu" the flavour is local, "Ubuntu" the distro is global.  Unless otherwise specified, the flavour applies whenever flavours are being discussed, and never applies in other cases.10:36
FujitsuFlavors don't exist at all in LP at the moment, though I believe that's changing.10:36
FujitsuUrrrgh, I just used an Americanism.10:36
=== Fujitsu hopes qgis will build this time.
persiaThat would actually be interesting.  I wonder if different flavours would be able to provide different seeds such that the component mix was different, but that's far from on-topic for here :)10:37
FujitsuI don't like this evil autoconf stuff.10:37
FujitsuI think the seeds will be able to be assigned to a flavour in LP, but I really don't remember.10:38
=== Fujitsu looks for specs.
FujitsuYay, it passes configure.10:38
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FujitsuOh, neat, it runs configure twice.10:38
FujitsuThanks Debian.10:38
persiaFujitsu: More problematic is that builds depend on components, so if different flavours want to change the seeds for components, it gets hopeless at the sourcepackagerelease level.10:39
Fujitsupersia: Components aren't for flavours to decide.10:39
FujitsuThat would never work.10:39
persiaFujitsu: Right.  On the other hand, it makes building CDs from a flavour without promising official support much easier.10:40
Fujitsupersia: In that case you just have a CD build system that allows universe too.10:40
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persiaFujitsu: No, because of the flavour-specific seeds.  See, it gets hopeless.  Something might happen at some point in the future if another large sponsor wants to pay to share infrastructure and source, but likely not until then.10:41
FujitsuFlavours can have differing ship seeds, but not feasibly different supported seeds.10:42
FujitsuThe Soyuz spec for it is distrorelease-flavours (and its (r)depends), though not much seems to be happening there.10:45
persiaFujitsu: Hmm...  That doesn't help flavours that need more variance, but then again, not all derivatives should be candidates for flavours.10:46
Fujitsupersia: How does Canonical-supported status affect unsupported flavours?10:47
persiaFujitsu: Well, if, as an example, someone wanted to distribute something that used jack as the default sound system (which cannot be in main now due to highly unstable rdepends upstream), and support that, this would need to be done as a derivative, rather than as a flavour (until something changes).  This is true to a lesser extent for anything wishing CDs, due to the CD builds from main restriction (which is less complicated).10:49
Fujitsupersia: Ah, I wasn't considering the possibility that someone might want to support that.10:50
FujitsuI suppose it wouldn't be hard to provide overrides so packages could be dragged into a flavour-specific supported component.10:50
persiaFujitsu: Right.  It's the possibility of non-official support (or flavour-specific support) that makes it tricky.10:50
FujitsuBut then that requires a separate archive.10:50
FujitsuI hadn't considered that possibility.10:50
persiaFujitsu: No, that's not hard, but tracking rebuilds becomes hard.10:50
persiaRight.  At that point, derivative makes more sense than flavour.  As a result, flavour-specific seeds are probably limited to ShipSeed and DesktopSeed (or perhaps a couple other specialised seeds)10:51
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Fujitsusupported is the only one that isn't restricted to distribution changes.10:52
FujitsuSo is the only one that must be shared.10:52
FujitsuYay, qgis builds properly and made this publisher run.10:53
FujitsuOh, nice, I just got a response to one of the beryl bugs asking why I was closing it when the bugs was still present in 6.10. Doubly invalid bugs, what fun.10:55
ajmitchah yes, 6.10, which never had beryl in the repository10:57
Fujitsuajmitch: Yep.10:57
=== Fujitsu goes to unload the dishwasher :(
=== Fujitsu returns.
geserbtw: what's beryl's future in gutsy? will it get removed?11:09
Fujitsugeser: It was removed almost 24 hours ago.11:10
FujitsuThough I missed three source packages in the first batch :(11:10
StevenKBeryl needs to die, so there.11:11
geserFujitsu: I've seen the bug for it but as I didn't remember where it was, I couldn't find it anymore11:11
=== StevenK sighs. How can packages.d.o suck so *hard*?
FujitsuStevenK: Because whoever owns it found out Ubuntu was using it?11:12
FujitsuBah, dinner now.11:12
=== Fujitsu runs away for a little while.
StevenKSounds about right, knowing djpig.11:13
Fujitsugeser: Summary was something like `Please but beryl and co. out of their misery'11:13
FujitsuI had to make it a little less boring than the normal, as it /was/ beryl.11:13
geserI got used to some nice looking emerald themes. Is there a proper replacement for it in gutsy?11:14
FujitsuCompiz Fusion is getting something like Emerald soon, I believe.11:14
FujitsuNow, I really have to go.11:14
geserFujitsu: yes, that one11:14
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=== Fujitsu returns.
StevenKI was curious about the bug number about Beryl11:32
FujitsuStevenK: Which? Removal the 1st?11:33
=== StevenK nods.
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FujitsuBug #12466111:33
ubotuLaunchpad bug 124661 in emerald-themes "Please put beryl and co. out of their misery" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12466111:33
StevenKAhh. emerald-themes. Sneaky11:34
FujitsuIt has tasks for all of them.11:34
Fujitsu(except beryl-settings, beryl-settings-bindings, beryl-plugins-unsupported (which I missed), heliodor and emerald (which were already gone)11:35
FujitsuI wonder if they could have split it into any more sources.11:37
=== minghua wonders what Fujitsu really want to say by "it is nice and buggy". :-)
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Fujitsuminghua: I'm sure you can guess.11:46
FujitsuOh, I do like this graph:11:56
TheMusopfft graphs.11:56
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persiaFujitsu: Nifty.11:59
geserwhat happened?12:00
persiageser: beryl12:01
FujitsuFor once beryl did something good.12:02
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HobbseeFujitsu: oh nice.... :)12:07
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ajmitchFujitsu: beryl, or the removal of it?12:10
Fujitsuajmitch: Well, by being removed.12:12
=== ajmitch sheds a tear
FujitsuI know, I feel terrible for destroying such quality code.12:12
=== persia hands Fujitsu a very small serviette
calcajmitch: good morning12:15
ajmitchhey calc 12:17
=== calc hopes his laptop lasts until he gets on the plane
ajmitchyou need a one with a hand-crank12:18
calci need one of those new ubuntu mobile systems12:19
=== ajmitch hasn't seen anything fancy announced yet
calcit hasn't been announced yet12:19
calchell its really just started but from what i have seen it will be very nice12:20
=== persia wonders how /usr/bin/ld: i386 architecture of input file `../../source/linux/gtksourceview/gtksourceview/.libs/libgtksourceview-1.0.a(gtksourcebuffer.o)' is incompatible with i386:x86-64 output could be generated, and whether the problem is in the subject package or in gtksourceview.
=== calc wonders why ppc keeps timing out on ooo build
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=== ajmitch is looking at getting one of those new neo1973 phones with openmoko on them to hack on
=== Fujitsu is thinking he'll probably also get one at some point.
FujitsuI've got about the oldest Nokia phone in existence.12:22
TheMusoWHat toolkit does openmoko use?12:22
FujitsuGTK+, AFAIK12:22
ajmitchfairly standard stuff12:22
TheMusoJust what I wanted to hear.12:22
ajmitchI managed to get the whole image built yesterday12:22
ajmitchyou can test it in qemu12:22
FujitsuIt's not even ridiculously expensive.12:23
ajmitchno, I'm getting one as part of a group order12:23
=== TheMuso hopes he doesn't have to replace hish phone till 3G transition time.
porthosecould you refer me to a package that uses cdbs so I can learn by example please12:25
Fujitsuajmitch: Are you running it in a vanilla qemu?12:26
ajmitchFujitsu: nope12:27
ajmitchyou can download & build the whole set with 1 makefile12:28
ajmitchwhich builds a custom qemu as well12:28
ajmitchit emulates some more phone-specific hardware12:28
persiaporthose: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources suggests pmount as a good example.12:28
FujitsuRight, I'm currently checking that out.12:28
persiaporthose: Also, look at the CDBS Documentation (from duckcorp): there are some example rules files there as well.12:29
Fujitsuajmitch: That takes a while.12:30
calcFujitsu: i have a nokia 2160 somewhere i think12:30
calcfrom ~ 199612:30
ajmitchFujitsu: I know, I built it12:30
calcit doens't work any more of course since it used tdma12:30
porthosepersia: Looking at duckcorp now thanks for pmount example12:30
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FujitsuI see it even has stuff like gnome-vfs. Nice.12:39
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jekilif i have this lintian errors, http://rafb.net/p/MaMZZH71.html after include that copyright in debian/copyright i must delete this files?12:53
persiajekil: Are all those different licenses?  Also, is this a source error or a binary error?12:57
jekilpersia: yes, all different, bsd, gpl.. it's a source12:58
jekili am packaging a source that's hell12:58
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persiajekil: OK.  If upstream distributes all those license files, and they are all different, and you're not including them in your binary packages, you'll want to override the lintian error.12:59
jekiland if i am including it in my binary deb? (the app is in ruby, so there isn't difference)01:00
persiajekil: There is a difference.  A source package is a .dsc file, a .diff.gz file and an orig.tar.gz file.  A binary package is a .deb file.  You can check the contents of your binaries with dpkg --contents01:04
persiajekil: Also, is this http://framework.metasploit.com/msf/?01:04
jekilpersia: yeah01:05
jekilpersia: the source tar.gz is hell01:05
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persiajekil: Did you read the license for downloading the source?  I'm not even sure that the software can be modified enough to make a package, and still comply with that license.  Further, it certainly would have to be in multiverse, as we cannot modify it, and it cannot be sold for profit.01:06
man-dijekil: the lintian error are about your binary package01:07
man-dijekil: this means you should not include them in the binary package, debian/copyright should have all the needed infos01:08
jekilpersia: i read it, it can be distribuited for non-profit, you think that i must write on ubuntu-legal or whatever?01:08
persiajekil: There's no ubuntu-legal.  My concern is 1) there are companies that distribute Ubuntu for profit, and 2) that Ubuntu likes to be able to patch software without violating the license.01:09
jekilpersia: ok, so this software cannot be packaged01:11
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persiajekil: If you think it's a good candidate, by all means, send it to REVU.  I'd suggest checking against http://www.debian.org/social_contract to determine if it's OK to package.  As far as I know, the only licensing differences between Ubuntu and Debian are 1) GFDL is considered free, and 2) binary firmware without source is considered acceptable in some cases.01:12
persiajekil: That's my thought, but I'm not an authority regarding copyright law.01:12
persia(or tort law, which is more likely to apply in this case)01:13
Q-FUNKbryce: it seems I got upstream to accept my patch to auto-generate ChangeLog from the git commit log for -amd.01:13
persiaQ-FUNK: Congratulations!  That is a great feature.01:13
Kmospersia: bug 12180001:14
ubotuLaunchpad bug 121800 in lastfm "Please sync lastfm ( from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12180001:14
Kmoscan you do the sync ?01:14
man-diKmos: subscribe u-u-s and wait, it will be done01:15
Kmosman-di: that's done01:15
man-diKmos: then wait01:15
persiaKmos: No.  Only archive-admins can sync.  Did you put it in the U-U-S queue?01:15
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persiaOK.  If nobody else gets it before I look at the queue again, I'll review it.01:15
Kmos:) thx01:16
persiaKmos: No problem.  Thanks for following the process :)01:16
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Kmospersia: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=559901:19
Kmosbug 12081601:19
ubotuLaunchpad bug 120816 in aegis-virus-scanner "Upgrade aegis-virus-scanner to version 2" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12081601:19
Kmosv1.x isn't anymore supported by author01:19
FujitsuWhat's the Debian equivalent of marking a bug as Invalid?01:20
persiaKmos: That's another one for which you want to subscribe the sponsors.  I've just looked, and it appears today was a slow day for sponsoring: I'll probably get to it soon.01:21
Q-FUNKpersia: yup.  we at least now have a vague idea of what they changed upstream.  until now, upstream didn't provide any ChangeLog at all.01:21
persiaFujitsu: Won't Fix, or sending a nastygram to -closed.01:21
Kmospersia: I need you to check the package.. isn't complete. I can't create the gnome desktop file01:22
persiaQ-FUNK: That's annoying.  Where there's a tarball, there should be a ChangeLog01:22
persiaKmos: Ah.  What problem are you haveing with the .desktop file?01:22
Q-FUNKpersia: there's no tarball.  they only exist in X.org git.01:22
persiaQ-FUNK: That explains it.  That's frustrating for entirely different reasons :)01:23
Q-FUNKpersia: precisely. :)01:23
Kmospersia: i really don't know what to configure to make it create the desktop file01:24
Kmosand the rules dh_ command for that01:24
persiaKmos: I'd recommend enabling dh_install, and using debian/install to put share/aegis-virus-scanner.desktop in usr/share/applications.  You might want to install some of share/icons/* as well.01:25
Q-FUNKFujitsu: the wontfix tag.01:26
Q-FUNKFujitsu: either that or if the bug simply doesn't make sense, it gets closed.01:26
Kmospersia: what should i create on debian/install file ?01:27
persiaKmos: man dh_install01:28
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persiabryce: Is the Ubuntu version of luit maintained at git://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/app/luit, or is that upstream debian/ ?01:49
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persiaOK.  Different question.  Am I correct that XS-Vcs-* should point to the packaging repository, rather than to the upstream source?01:54
RAOFThat's the only way I've seen it used01:54
FujitsuPointing to the upstream source is wrong.01:55
persiaFujitsu: Thanks.  There's more to fix than I thought :)01:55
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persiaDktrKranz: I'm looking at bug 112313, and it FTBFS for me (see http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29898/).  Any ideas?02:22
ubotuLaunchpad bug 112313 in xmms-liveice "xmms-liveice causes a segmentation fault if the playlist is emptied while playing" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11231302:22
=== DktrKranz looks
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persiaDktrKranz: Thanks.02:23
DktrKranzI understood why, it was a typo introduced by me02:26
DktrKranzlook: if(if title02:26
persiaDktrKranz: Could you stick a diff in a pastebin?  I'll wedge it in.02:26
=== DktrKranz likes ifs, he adds them twice!
persiaAh.  Nevermind.  If it's just 3 character deletion, I don't need a diff :)02:27
DktrKranzanyway, I'll try to build it again to see if compiles, but it should02:28
persiaDktrKranz: "if(title && strcmp(title,oldtitle) && lv_conf.title_streaming && lv_conf.header_format){" is what you want, right?02:28
DktrKranzthat's it02:29
persiagreat.  Trying another build now.  Thanks for the quick fix.02:29
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DktrKranzthanks to you for pointing that out02:31
persiaDktrKranz: That worked.  Thanks again.02:32
DktrKranzagain, thanks to you :)02:32
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DktrKranzbug 122183 is affecting feisty. gutsy version does not build correctly and user reported it is an issue to be solved. anyone to mentor me on a possible SRU?03:26
ubotuLaunchpad bug 122183 in plr "postgresql-8.1-plr for Feisty missing plr.so and plr.sql" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12218303:26
DktrKranzafter a brief look, this issue is due to the fact feisty version builds against libpq-dev 8.203:29
DktrKranzwhile plr looks for files in /usr/lib/postgresql/8.1, while it should search in /usr/lib/postgresql/8.2 (or 8.?)03:31
=== AndyP catches up on the fallout from his email
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FujitsuHm, what's this new lpia arch, and why are there no buildds for it?03:36
AndyPlow power on intel?03:37
persiaDktrKranz: That sounds like a conf file or rules file change.03:37
TheMusoFujitsu: embedded?03:37
FujitsuAndyP, TheMuso: Looks like it.03:37
DktrKranzpersia, that's it03:37
persiaFujitsu: Think Samsung Q1 and similar equipment.03:37
FujitsuIt has appeared on LP now.03:37
DktrKranzI have got a debdiff which fixes the inclusion problem. What's the procedure in these cases?03:38
TheMusoNight folks.03:39
FujitsuNight TheMuso.03:39
persiaDktrKranz: For gutsy, just subscribe U-U-S.  For an SRU, nominate it for a previous release, and attach a (tested) debdiff for the SRU to the bug, and subscribe U-U-S.  It's good to mention it's an SRU in a comment, to make sure that someone accepts the nomination.03:39
DktrKranzdo I need to document it in changelog too?03:40
DktrKranze.g: SRU bugfix or some?03:41
persiaDktrKranz: You'll have two separate changelogs.  One for gutsy (just normal), and one for feisty updates (look at other changelogs there for examples).03:41
DktrKranzgutsy is not affected, only feisty is03:41
=== DktrKranz looks
persiaDktrKranz: What about "gutsy version does not build correctly"?03:42
DktrKranzbackporting it for feisty does not build03:42
DktrKranzbut gutsy build is successful03:43
persiaDktrKranz: Ah.  My misunderstanding then.  In that case, just prepare an SRU debdiff, and subscribe U-U-S.03:44
FujitsuMark the Ubuntu task as Invalid, and propose it for Feisty.03:44
DktrKranzok, I'll look at some changelogs to see if I need to add additional info03:44
DktrKranzI nominated it for feisty03:45
persiaFujitsu: Won't that hide it from the queue without approval of the nomination?03:45
Fujitsupersia: Hm, true. How annoying.03:45
=== persia approves for sake of ease of sponsoring, rather than as the result of a review
persiaDktrKranz: Follow Fujitsu's advice for now.  We'll have to think about this a bit more to get a good process in place :)03:46
DktrKranzok, marking gutsy as invalid and attach a debdiff for feisty-proposed, right?03:48
DktrKranzjust one second03:48
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persiaFujitsu: You seem well integrated with the LP crowd.  Any ideas on how to make it easier for contributors to recommend SRUs?03:49
Fujitsupersia: Um, possibly have people regularly check over the list of things to accept/reject, but that's probably not going to work.03:53
persiaFujitsu: Not unless we define a team, and I think we're short enough on staffing for sponsors already.03:53
FujitsuRight. Not sure how best to do it.03:54
FujitsuThe only way I can see is to leave the task open, but that is hackish.03:54
persiaFujitsu: Yep.  Perhaps set a guideline that approving an SRU task should be done on request, unless it's obviously crack, and telling people to ask here?03:55
FujitsuI think so.03:55
=== persia adds an agenda item for the next MOTU Meeting, as SRUs tend to be sensitive
AndyPhttp://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6005 should be easy to review now that upstream has removed their debian dir for me03:56
DktrKranzdebdiff attached and U-U-S subscribed03:56
=== Fujitsu wonders why he has privileges to accept/decline bug #77442.
ubotuLaunchpad bug 77442 in compiz "No screen updates when using desktop-effects with vnc" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/7744203:57
Fujitsuvnc was demoted, so I get privileges over all the main tasks. How nice.03:58
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persiaFujitsu: Interesting...  Sounds like a bug to me.03:59
ScottKAndyP: In addition to reviewing the e-mail responses to your message, you may also want to look at the IRC logs.04:00
Fujitsupersia: Yep, and it's related to another I filed months ago.04:00
ScottKGood morning everyone.  I think I got my network sorted now.04:00
persiaGood day ScottK04:00
AndyPScottK: i scanned through my irc backlog and picked up on some comments04:02
ScottKOK.  Just making sure.04:03
AndyPi didn't expect the level of debate it threw up but it seems like healthy debate to me04:03
=== ScottK didn't either.
persiaAndyP: It is healthy.  Thanks for helping prod it.04:03
=== ScottK thought ask before you merge was non-controversial and well established.
persiaScottK: I think it was new in edgy (maybe even late edgy).  I've never seen real controversy about it previously, aside from people grumbling when either it wasn't done, or the last uploader wasn't available.04:05
AndyPScottK: i did too, really, but it's the method of asking i was looking into, and perhaps what to do if the previous uploader is not contactable04:05
ScottKRight, but it's clear now that we don't even have consensus on asking.04:05
persiaScottK: Strangely, yes.04:06
FujitsuWhen I started in early Edgy, it was just common etiquette. It wasn't defined anywhere at all; you just knew.04:06
Fujitsu\/win 904:06
ScottKOne other point is that since I merge the same package over and over, I'm more motivated to work with Debian to reduce that diff.  04:07
persiaFujitsu: Really?  I never heard anything about it for Dapper.  Perhaps new for Edgy?04:07
ScottKI guess that's the problem is that common etiquette isn't so common.04:07
persiaScottK: True, although I find that when someone else merges it badly, I'm even more motivated to work with Debian and upstream.04:07
FujitsuMy involvement prior to Edgy was in #ubuntu and the Australian Team. Nothing developerish, so I really don't know.04:08
ScottKAs an example, I've gotten clamav down to where there is a one line diff in an init between Ubuntu and Debian.04:08
=== ScottK tends to feel motivated to strangle the individual in question, but that's just me.
Hobbseedapper was quite different04:08
persiaFujitsu: I was not involved for Edgy (left just before Dapper release (May-ish), and returned early Feisty (December-ish), so there's a bit of a gap in my memory.04:09
persiaScottK: for clamav, can't you do something nifty with postint and lsb?04:09
ScottKIt's more a matter of doing the research to make sure the diff would be appropriate for Debian and then sending a patch.04:10
persiaScottK: Ah.04:10
ScottKIf someone would send $TIME here, I'd get it done right away.04:10
Hobbseedapper we had a small team of people, who were very involved, who were all very good, who could all upload, and who had more time.  and one wiki page of everything.   that's not still the case04:11
FujitsuNow we have a small team of people who don't have much time, and a small group who don't have much time and can't upload. Lovely.04:12
Hobbseeit's probably a bit bigger group now04:13
persiaFujitsu: Both groups are growing.  We've eight or so new MOTUs so far in gutsy, and I keep seeing new names with <100 karma in the UUS queue, so I imagine the other group is growing as well.04:13
FujitsuIt seems smaller than Edgy/Feisty, but that might just be me.04:14
persiaFujitsu: It's certainly less noisy here, but it seems about the same in terms of archive churn.04:14
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HobbseeFujitsu: a lot of hte really good people are inactive04:16
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ScottKHobbsee: Good point.04:17
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=== ScottK just showed up 8 months ago and sees a lot of faces missing.
persiaI think rather that a lot of the people very active in edgy and feisty are inactive, as I don't think there is strong correlation between activity and skill (although experience tends to generate skill)04:17
Hobbseea lot of the dapper people are now inactive04:17
Hobbseei think they got a bit older, and had less time04:18
persiaHobbsee: It's not just age.  It's also time - it's a lot of work to keep up.04:18
ScottKWhich is one reason process churn is a bad idea unless really needed.04:18
=== persia only recognises a few people from Dapper days, and most are core-dev now
=== StevenK has fond memories of Dapper.
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persiaScottK: I'd actually argue against that.  I think a lot of our processes need work, as they previously relied on the herculean efforts of such legendary figures as The MOTU Trinity, etc.04:19
persiaDapper was fun, but there weren't 8 million users to worry about.04:20
ScottKNeed work, fine, but churn no.04:20
persiaScottK: OK.  Agreed.04:20
Hobbseepersia: remember - core dev doesnt mean no work on MOTU04:20
ScottKFor example this whole ask before you merge thing is process churn IMO.  There was a clear common understanding even if not well documented.04:21
ScottKNo we're going to engage in several rounds of navel gazing to figure out what the right thing to do is.04:21
persiaHobbsee: Right, but core-dev usually means either a position with Canonical, a position that allows truly significant time to be spent on Ubuntu, or a Student (but those tend to lose time after a year or two)04:21
Hobbseepersia: core dev has nothing to do with canonical04:22
persiaScottK: Yep.  Gutsy is good for that, as we'll want to be in best shape for the next LTS, to make it really shine.04:22
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Hobbseepersia: as in, if you're good enough for core dev, then you're probably on the canonical radar, but that's not a direct link04:22
persiaHobbsee: Officially, no, but it's tricky to get into core-dev if one can't commit at least 30 hours a week to Ubuntu, and probably more like 50.04:23
=== ScottK finds it all a great disctraction from doing actual work.
Hobbseepersia: oh, i dont know about that04:23
Hobbseepersia: that's a personal thing, on hwo much time you have04:23
=== ScottK imagines Hobbsee would know.
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HobbseeScottK: more to the point - i wouldnt say you needed to spend 30+ hours on ubuntu to be in core04:24
persiaHobbsee: Perhaps.04:24
ScottKOf course I'm kind of allergic to process, so who knows.04:24
Hobbseeheck - how much of the time is spent on irc?04:24
Hobbseevs actually uploading things?04:24
persiaHobbsee: Sure, most of the time is IRC, when the person could be doing other things, but that also depends on the nature of  the other things the person does.04:25
persiaAnd, if someone can only commit ~20 hours a week to being on IRC, are they really connected enough to work in the Ubuntu culture?04:27
persia(ignoring legacy committers for the time being)04:27
Hobbseeor at least, if not, there's some problem with our procedures04:27
Hobbseea person should nto have to read backscroll of irc to see all of the decisions04:27
Hobbseewe need to use our mailing list more04:27
persiaHobbsee: OK.  I'd agree with that, but I think it falls under "problem with practices", rather than "not an issue" at the current time.04:28
persiaOn the other hand, one of the things that was exciting about Ubuntu when it was starting was that it was real-time: IRC and wiki, rather than mailing lists and waiting.  I'm not sure how much of that should be lost in the interest of encouraging people to spend ~10 hours a week and have full upload rights.04:29
ScottKWork it out on IRC and document it on the ML is not a bad way to work.04:31
HobbseeScottK: true that04:31
persiaScottK: Exactly.04:31
Hobbseefull upload rights is a bit of a red herring, i find.  there's just not that much use i have for main stuff04:31
Hobbseeexcluding the seeds, and stuff i'm currently working on04:31
=== ScottK finds it useful for Hobbsee to be able to upload main stuff ;-)
persiaHobbsee: That's just you.  Think about the greater picture.  If I had upload rights to main, and took an engagement that limited me to ~10 hours a week on Ubuntu, I'm not sure that others would appreciate me uploading random things that took my fancy when I was around.04:33
Hobbseepersia: dunno - because, if you were the "maintainer" per se...then they may not touch it04:33
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persiaRight, but I'm against the very concept of "Maintainer".  It seems contrary to the discussion that brought Ubuntu into being.04:33
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ScottKThen pick a more moderate word that means "Person that normally pays attention to this package".04:34
Hobbseemain's a bit different, as in, because someone has to be staying on top of each package's bugs.04:34
persiaHobbsee: Sure, someone has to track the bugs, but to date, nobody has complained about my (sponsored) uploads to main based on my random interests.  I believe this to be because whenever I've worked in main, I've been around, and responsive.04:35
=== ScottK ponders filing a bug asking for removal of the "Offer to mentor someone to fix this bug" link for LP, since no one who might need mentoring can actually do that.
persiaScottK: I think that's a good feature.  We should use it more.04:36
ScottKSure, but for LP/malone it's not relevant.04:36
eagles0513875ScottK: so what ur saying is i can file a but to ask someone to help me debug an issue even though ill be the one doing the debugging04:37
Hobbseepersia: oh true04:37
ScottKSee, I slept and so my bitterness quotient is revitalized.04:37
=== Hobbsee shrugs
ScottKeagles0513875: You can file a bug and someone may offer to help you with it.  They may just fix it themselves.04:37
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Hobbseeacutally, they might mark it as a support request04:38
Hobbseebetter to just ask in here04:38
persiaHobbsee: Yep.  Shrugging is probably the right response for now.  Eventually, interested parties will come up with reasonable proposals, and those responsible for guiding the community will suggest how we should proceed.04:38
Hobbseeor #ubuntu+104:38
eagles0513875ScottK: im having a problem which hasnt fixed itself and ive already tried a number of things04:38
Hobbseepersia: why do i get the distinct feeling that i'm regarded as one of them, as are the rest that have been doing MOTU stuff for a long while, or who are smart?04:38
persiaHobbsee: Because you have a sufficient sense of responsibility?04:39
Hobbseepersia: was more thinking of the people who were regarded to know what they were doing04:39
eagles0513875Hobbsee: u certainly give an impression u know what ur doing04:41
Hobbseeeagles0513875: which is exactly why i suspect i'm being watched for a response04:42
eagles0513875no i know ur in the ubuntu+1 room i dont expect u to respond 04:42
persiaHobbsee: Sorry.  Took me a while to determine how I had been unclear.  I'm saying that your sense of responsibility is the reason you are one of the people who is likely to develop a proposal for how we should do things.04:42
Hobbseepersia: ah right.04:42
Hobbseepersia: i wish we'd got something more productive out of our discussions in the smokers bar at UDS, but unfortunately not04:43
Hobbseejono destroyed that, with his all new beer greeting, and all the others coming in04:43
persiaWhereas, the people responsible for the community direction tend to be members of the CC04:43
HobbseeCC is a very small group, tend nto to have direction for day to day stuff04:43
persiaHobbsee: That's not really the right venue anyway (although it tends to be my favorite)04:44
Hobbseepersia: well... :)04:44
Hobbseepersia: the rigth people were there, so...04:44
Hobbseeand hell, they werent moving, if htey could have a smoke, and i wasnt moving, being absolutely exhausted04:44
persiaHobbsee: Exactly - that's why it tends to be my favorite :)04:44
eagles0513875Hobbsee: whats a good program to use to play around with source files04:44
=== Hobbsee notes that walking from the hotel, to the university, and getting lost, and then to the centre of sevilla, and around it, then all the way back, is kinda exhausting!
Hobbseeeagles0513875: $texteditorofchoice04:45
persiaRegarding CC, I think that some of the issues (one team vs. maintainers, how do we recruit, etc.) are matters of interest to CC, but only after we've sufficiently thrashed the issues to prepare two or three well documented proposals.04:45
eagles0513875Hobbsee: ok lol04:45
eagles0513875ill use kate then04:45
Hobbseepersia: true.  may even be the tech board - but we *should* be able to fix this ourselves, as we know the problems.04:45
Hobbseepersia: i believe that jono plans to do a big MOTU drive, so we need our sponsorship processes well described, and we need our people to be up to scratch, and responsible.04:46
Hobbseebefore that point04:46
Hobbseeand if htey're not responsible, then we either dont let them get upload rights in the first place, or look at removing them.04:46
persiaHobbsee: Not the tech board.  The problems aren't technical, they're social.  How should developers work together?  We should be able to fix it, but if we reach two or three models, rather than one, someone needs to decide.04:47
persiaRight.  The MOTU drive is in late October / early November, right?04:47
AndyPwhat's a MOTU drive?04:47
=== Hobbsee will attempt to put some serious thought into it, sometime after she's done uni assignments, resume, and other such things
HobbseeAndyP: give me more blood!04:48
HobbseeAndyP: give me more motu blood!04:48
persiaAndyP: It's like a cattle drive, only using developers and laserpointers :)04:48
Hobbseeooh, shiny04:48
AndyPok now answer my question seriously ;)04:49
HobbseeAndyP: but we did.04:49
persiaHobbsee: Good luck.  I think we sensibly have until next month before we need to really get it all proposed properly, but I may not be gauging things correctly.04:49
Hobbseepersia: thanks.04:49
=== Fujitsu heads to bed.
Hobbseepersia: it'd probalby help if i got off irc for a while,b ut i need to stay on until the 19th, at least.04:49
Hobbseenight Fujitsu 04:49
FujitsuNight Hobbsee.04:50
persiaAndyP: More seriously, it's a international effort to recruit new developers to Ubuntu, including Contributors, MOTU, etc.04:50
eagles0513875thsi si to everyone here whether ur a programer or not i have to say kubuntu x86_64 is the best 64bit os i refuse to use anything else04:51
persiaHobbsee: Understood.  Note however, that not being on IRC might make the discussions based on any proposal more difficult :)04:51
AndyPah i see *puts down the scalpel*04:51
eagles0513875where would i make a proposal04:51
persiaeagles0513875: What sort of proposal?04:51
Hobbseepersia: oh, true that04:51
eagles0513875persia: another version of kubuntu that centers around clustering04:52
=== persia suggests ignoring IRC for a couple hours a day
eagles0513875i honestly think canonical would make alot of money off it04:52
Hobbseeeagles0513875: provide someone to do the work.....04:52
persiaeagles0513875: Most cluster arrangements are better run without X, except for the master station.  You may be interested in some variation of ubuntu-server for the nodes, and Kubuntu for the head.04:52
=== Hobbsee waves the magic wand and does it
eagles0513875persia: what i was thinking was using pxe and do a network boot04:53
=== persia notes that there has been a recent call for new contributors to ubuntu-server
eagles0513875persia: y cant the basic ubuntu server be the ubuntu desktop version04:53
eagles0513875since u can download all the dev pkgs04:53
persiaeagles0513875: In that case, you might also want to look at some of the work that has been done in Edubuntu to netboot the thin clients.04:53
persiaeagles0513875: The big reason not to run desktop on a server is that X and friends take up too much RAM, interrupts, and processor time.04:54
=== Hobbsee notes that pitti probably doesnt want to get a phonecall on a saturday afternoon.
eagles0513875but kubuntu is so light weight when it comes to ram thoguh04:54
persiaHobbsee: Just wait two more days :)04:54
persiaeagles0513875: Yes, but not as light as ubuntu-server04:55
Hobbseepersia: it's time sensitive04:55
persiaHobbsee: In that case...04:55
eagles0513875how much lighter is the server version04:55
Hobbseepersia: as in, it really should have been discussed on friday, but i totally forgota bout it, until after pitti had left london04:55
Hobbseeeagles0513875: it doesnt run an x server.04:55
AndyPthe server kernel is different to the desktop kernel also04:55
persiaeagles0513875: I don't have a kubuntu installation, but probably about 60MB or so.04:55
Hobbseepersia: well, at least, irc, to go and drink beer04:55
DarkMageZeagles0513875, i'm counting 100MB less ram usage from not using an xserver alone.04:56
persiaDarkMageZ: A lot of that is probably X resources stored by your clients as well.04:56
DarkMageZprobably. but still relevant to the point.04:56
eagles0513875how do i move a folder using shell04:57
Hobbseeeagles0513875: like they told you in #ubuntu+104:57
=== Hobbsee notes this isnt the support channel
persiaeagles0513875: now you're getting into #ubuntu territory.  or maybe #ubuntu+104:57
eagles0513875sry 04:58
eagles0513875persia: i think though in todays day and age the 60mb wont make a difference or would it04:58
Hobbseeon a server?  yes.04:59
Hobbseeold machiens are still used as servers...04:59
DarkMageZpersia, so i've waited a week for a responce from the debian maintainer. no responce. what should i do?04:59
eagles0513875older machines though in a cluster environment04:59
persiaeagles0513875: Even for a new machine, it makes a huge difference.  For a cluster, even more so, as you might want to focus on compute power, and only purchase 64MB RAM for each node.04:59
persiaeagles0513875: More importantly, it's completely pointless - the cluster nodes will never need to run an X application, so loading the libraries into RAM just wastes space and CPU power.05:00
eagles0513875in the server version of the distro does pxe tftp dhcp and all that some come pre installed05:00
Hobbseewhy dont you try it......05:01
persiaLastly, for clustering or a server, you want to focus on throughput, rather than responsiveness, which means a differently tuned kernel.05:01
eagles0513875ill download and run as a virtual machine05:01
persiaeagles0513875: Take a look at the dependencies of ubuntu-server.05:01
=== ScottK needs a function key programmed to say "Backports are for new features. Severe bugs should be fixed via the SRU process, because ..."
persiaDarkMageZ: Debian is slow.  You could ask for other opinions here.  I'm not tempted to introduce dpatch without some feedback, and the guidelines on the wiki say not to change the patch system, but there have been exceptions in the past.05:02
persiaScottK: heh.05:02
HobbseeScottK: er, have you heard of the predefined responses, and keescook's greasemonkey script?05:04
eagles0513875i see what u guys mean shaves of 300 or so mb off the download05:04
=== persia wonders why the developer greasemonkey scripts discussed at UDS still haven't been packaged
Hobbseepersia: ENOTIME, i expect.  which ones?05:04
persiaHobbsee: I forget.  Tollef uploaded a bunch of them to err.no during the session, but I completely failed to bookmark it.05:05
ScottKHobbsee: I have heard of them.  I haven't had time to investigate them.05:05
eagles0513875i hate the way they limit download speeds during the day here05:06
Hobbseepersia: i wonder where tehy are, then05:06
eagles0513875persia: r the commands pretty much the same as in kubuntu 05:07
persiaHobbsee: My vague memory was that there were a couple different ones for LP, and a good clean one got hacked together, and one for the wiki was in progress when the room was taken over by the next session.  I never heard about anything else.05:08
Hobbseepersia: this was developer weather report stuff, by any chance?05:08
persiaeagles0513875: 1) unless replying to someone, it's better to ask the channel, 2) that's a support request, and off-topic here, 3) yes.05:08
persiaHobbsee: No, special greasemonkey session.05:08
Hobbseepersia: oh right.  i'll poke mithrandir over it, then05:09
Hobbseei cant see it is05:09
Hobbseeer, here05:09
eagles0513875persia: sry05:09
Hobbseeparts of norwegian are even starting to make sense, looking at this05:09
persiaHobbsee: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/uds-sevilla/2007-05-10/ has a list of some of the other people you might also want to check with.05:10
DarkMageZpersia, how could the introduction of a patch system be a bad thing?05:10
Hobbseepersia: ah, thanks05:12
HobbseeDarkMageZ: just more stuff to merge back05:12
Hobbseepersia: oh, i remember that day05:12
persiaDarkMageZ: Well, it changes how the package is maintained, which may annoy the maintainer, it makes it more difficult to use grep to determine if a security issue was resolved, which may annoy the security team, it adds changes not required for the fix, which makes the patches on patches.ubuntu.com less useful, and Debian specifically asked us not to do it without checking.05:12
Hobbseeohhhh....*now* i remember what we did that morning.05:13
persiajoejaxx: Good day.05:16
Hobbseehi joejaxx 05:16
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persiaKmos: Have you tested Debian lastfm?  At first glance, it looks OK, but I'm a little worried about the device management changes05:18
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persiaOK.  Requeueing.05:22
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yamalan improved sabnzbd upload is awaiting the keen eyes of the reviewers at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=601205:28
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eagles0513875Hobbsee: !@#)O*$& now im having that problem with something else too05:29
Hobbsee....and this is my problem because?05:30
eagles0513875its not05:30
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eagles0513875im just venting05:30
persiayamal: Great work, but it really needs licensing for the template files before it can be advocated05:31
persiaeagles0513875: Again, unless specifically replying to someone, it's best to vent at the channel instead (and this may not be the ideal channel)05:31
eagles0513875persia: sry05:32
yamalpersia: yup, I figured that... allready send mail to upstream author - no response yet but at least it didn bounce either05:32
persiayamal: Extra thanks for adding the comment on REVU that it wasn't ready yet - it makes our lives easier (although you shouldn't be surprised at a lack of response)05:33
yamaljust hoping any other problems/mistakes/omissions be identified so i can iron these out in the meantime05:34
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persiayamal: You've at least said you've fixed everything I found.  Maybe someone else can find something, but most people don't like to review when there's no chance of advocation, as they know that there will be another release soon enough anyway.05:36
ScottKBut let me second persia's thanks for commenting up front on the license issue.  It makes me very inclined to put you at the top of my list for REVUing once it's fixed.05:37
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yamalScottK: I'll remind you of that once the time has come :)05:41
ScottKyamal: No problem.05:42
ScottKDoing that was considerate of my time investment and I like to reward that.05:42
persiaAndyP: I've added a short comment to 6005 based on a very brief review.  Looks like you'll have to chase upstream again :(  You probably want to make sure you've run all the automated tests you can think of as well.  Sorry for the brevity, but I wanted you to get a response to your request, and am out of time.05:47
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LucidFoxIs there a guide for using debhelper with scons?05:56
broonieNot that I'm aware of; I can't think of anything that I'd put in such a guide TBH.05:57
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ScottKCertainly not right now unless the FTBFS has been fixed...05:58
broonieScottK: Packages can avoid that if they want; it's orthogonal to debhelper anyway.05:59
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broonieLucidFox: What would you expect to find in such a guide?06:02
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LucidFoxbroonie> well, how to create a debian/rules file to use with scons06:09
LucidFoxbut never mind, I think I figured it out now06:09
broonieAh; as far as that goes the SCons interface is very similar to make.06:10
crimsunwhoever backported needs to stay on top of gutsy uploads.06:10
crimsunflashplugin-nonfree, that is.06:10
crimsunubuntu1 is broken; debian/config was not updated.06:11
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gnomefreakcrimsun: i pinged him waiting for an answer06:15
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ScottKcrimsun: How did it get backported?  There's no feisty-backports bug for it.06:16
crimsungnomefreak: I closed 125938; the cause is clear.06:16
crimsunScottK: it went into -proposed.06:17
ScottKAh.  Sorry.06:17
gnomefreakcrimsun: ok looking at flash in feisty06:17
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ScottKHobbsee: There is a new clamav (0.91 - no API incompatibilities).  It's not in Debian yet.  I'm wondering if it might be worthwhile to jump Debian now to get it out before Tribe 3 and get more testing (and more upgrade testing as we have some recent postinst changes and got bit by a kernel bug on the last one).  Thoughts Ms. Release Manager?06:31
gnomefreakcrimsun: i have it built im testing atm06:33
ScottKAny Ruby package fans here?06:33
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crimsunKmos: please do not assign ALSA bugs to me.  I no longer lead that Launchpad team.  As long as ubuntu-audio is subscribed, that is sufficient.06:35
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gnomefreakcrimsun: btw latest uploda of flash to gutsy can not be grabbed with apt-get06:42
geserScottK: AFAIK does clamav 0.91 fix a security bug, so it would be good to have it in06:43
gnomefreakis it dput revu changes or dput changes revu?06:52
geserthe first06:52
HobbseeScottK: answer a) it's in universe, so i dont care, from RM POV (as in, only main freezes), b)  that sounds sane, because people will dist-upgrade around the tribes06:53
gnomefreakcrimsun: if you want flash its fixed and uploaded to revu i can give you link once i see it there06:53
Hobbseeoh, and c) i'm not the release manager...yet06:53
HobbseeScottK: erm, c) s/yet/possibly yet/06:54
=== Hobbsee --> bed.
SourceContactany motus interested in attending a development meeting for TimeVault at #ubuntutimevault?06:59
Kmoscrimsun: ok, sorry..06:59
gnomefreakhmmmmm revu is either slow or broken07:01
joejaxxSourceContact: timevault?07:02
SourceContactyep: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeVaultScreenShots07:03
SourceContactand https://launchpad.net/timevault/07:03
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leonelScottK: I've responded  thinking I was answering your email and  not  the  launchpad  mail :P07:05
gnomefreakany revu admins around? revu seems to not be working07:11
Kmosthis on .desktop aren't wrong for ubuntu07:14
ScottKleonel: No problem.  Isn't Feisty squirrelmail patched to be the same as Gusty?07:20
gnomefreakfeisty-proposed packages can be uploaded to revu right?07:21
leonelScottK: they have the security patches applied but   Feisty has 1.4.9a  and  gutsy is  1.4.10a   and there are more than 20 bugfixes 07:25
ScottKAh, so Gutsy == Feisty for security, but their are other bugfixes in Gutsy?07:26
ScottKleonel: Are there any new features in 1.4.10a?07:26
leonelScottK: bugfixes only  let me check  right07:27
ScottKleonel: Backports is for new features, not bugfixes, so it'd helpful to your cause if you answered, yes, there is a new feature.07:28
leonelScottK: I'm checking that07:38
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leonelScottK:  no new features  bugfixes 07:40
ScottKOK.  Thanks.  Let me think about that one then.07:40
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ivokshow about adding this to ubuntu:08:01
ivoksvodafone's tool for 3G cards - GPL08:01
ScottKGo for it.08:05
ivoksthis would be easy bite for some newcomers08:05
ivoksit already has structured debian/ dir08:05
Kmosthat will be nice =)08:09
gnomefreaksince when cant you do a debdiff on the source dirs.? 08:09
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Kmoswine 0.9.41-0ubuntu1 at gutsy now =)08:11
softmanhi aquo08:13
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gnomefreakwhat do i do after uploading debdiff to get it into feisty-proposed?08:23
ScottKgnomefreak: Subscribe UUS and a MOTU will upload it.08:24
gnomefreakScottK: ty revu seemed not to update after uploading it 08:25
gnomefreakUUS is ubuntu-universe-sponsers?08:26
gnomefreakScottK: done ty again 08:30
ScottKUnfortunately I don't have time to look at it right now.  I'm up to my ears in a libqt4-ruby SRU.08:36
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ScottKleonel: Why don't you go ahead and add Feisty for squirrelmail.08:49
gnomefreakScottK: thats fine i didnt mean for you personally to look at it ;)08:49
ScottKgnomefreak: No problem.  I was mostly trying to be clear I wasn't in case someone else could do it.08:49
gnomefreakScottK: :)08:50
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joejaxxanyone here use a amd64 to build i386 and x64?09:03
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ScottKjoejaxx: I think nixternal does something like that sometime.09:14
joejaxxoh ok09:14
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geserjoejaxx: you are running the stats about uploads, aren't you?09:48
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joejaxxgeser: sort of i broke the cron that was running for it09:50
joejaxxi need to fix that09:50
joejaxxhold on 09:50
gesercould you add a number how many distinct people did uploading?09:51
joejaxxyou are most welcome09:51
joejaxxi will have to do that in 1.5 hours though i have to drive home09:51
Kmoswhere are these stats?09:51
joejaxxKmos: ubuntu.joejaxx.org09:52
Kmosgeser: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcoRodrigues09:52
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Kmos] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | [20:50] <joejaxx> i need to fix that
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Kmos] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages
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RickHHello... anyone interested in helping me beginning GTK+ development?10:04
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RickHI have questions moving to GTK+ from a Windows developer background.10:10
geserdoesn't have gtk+ own channels?10:11
geserRickH: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeIrcChannels10:13
FlannelOn irc.gnome.org10:13
RickHGTK+ is GNome?10:13
geserfor gtk+ that would be #gtk+ on irc.gnome.org10:13
RickHOkay, thanks.10:14
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leonelScottK: Done  squirrelmail 1.4.10a   builded and tested  in feisty 10:34
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ScottKOK.  THanks.10:39
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leonelno, thank you 10:41
ScottKleonel: Please add the debian/changelog entries since dapper to the squirrelmail bug.10:46
ScottKleonel: In the bug description.  Also which versions are current in Dapper, Edgy, and Feisty and the version # to be backported from Gutsy.10:47
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leonelOk   I'm  going  out right now   is it urgent ?10:48
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leonelScottK: I'll do  as soon I come back 10:49
ScottKDo it when you get back.10:50
leonelok thanks10:50
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MegaqwertyIs there an easy way to get dependencies of source packages? I've tried using the script from debian's website, bit it misses a few that dpkg-depcheck finds. However, dpkg-depcheck doesn't print required version numbers...11:22
FlannelMegaqwerty: apt-get build-dep11:25
MegaqwertyFlannel: sorry, I meant .tar.gz files that don't have .debs yet11:25
Megaqwertyor .bz2, you get the idea.11:26
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man-diMegaqwerty: build with pbuilder and look what fails11:32
man-diMegaqwerty: thats the only thing that is reliable11:33
Megaqwertyman-di: Alright, thanks.11:33
man-diMegaqwerty: note that sometimes stuff is optional, you need to read the build log to get aware of missing optional stuff11:33
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