=== vbabiy [n=vbabiy@pool-71-164-85-238.albyny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jekil2 [n=alessand@151.82.7.144] has joined #ubuntu-motu === leonel [n=leonel@189.155.89.250] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:37] superm1: Sorry. The bit about debian/README.Debian-source apparently was recently changed (I was looking at 3.3.7). The sentence changed from "must contain detailed information how the repackaged source was obtained, and how this can be reproduced, in README.Debian-source or a similar file" to "must contain detailed information how the repackaged source was obtained, and how this can be reproduced in the debian/copyright.". My apologies, and y === Q-FUNK [n=q-funk@dsl-hkibras1-ff55c300-121.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:42] ah not a big deal persia. thanks for double checking on that [12:42] was there a second half to that statement though, you left it at "My apologies, and" === persia dislikes buffers and intended to end with "My apologies, and you probably want to fix debian/copyright :)", but hadn't actually looked at REVU to validate that statement. [12:43] Ah. debian/copyright does not describe that it was gathered from revu atm, but there is a X-Vcs-Bzr [12:43] in debian/control [12:44] i wasn't positive if that would be considered adequate [12:45] an identical method was used in my previous upload, mythbuntu-default-settings [12:45] actually the same debian/copyright [12:47] superm1: Not according to the Developers Reference 3.3.9, but there's heaps of things in the archive that don't follow that yet (and I've been recommending debian/README.Debian-source until now). For the older stuff, consider cleanup when you have time. For new stuff, put it in debian/copyright. [12:47] will do. [12:47] persia, this is very good that you're helping to make more apps compliant :) [12:49] why is there no #ubuntu-security channel? [12:49] I want to ask a question about remote desktop "vino" [12:49] i'll re-uplaod with a small bit in debian/copyright before i grab another revu from someone [12:49] tristanbob: generally we just talk about it in here. [12:49] what're you wondering? [12:50] I believe that vino encrypts the password with DES, but doesn't encrypt the session - is this still true? === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:52] keescook: also, vnc authentication is a single 8 character pasword, no username - correct? === Bassetts [n=Bassetts@unaffiliated/bassetts] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:55] tristanbob: right, I'm pretty sure the session is still not encrypted. [12:56] ok - thanks - I am going to blog about it [12:57] tristanbob, if you would like the session encrypted, look into the -via switch of vncviewer [12:57] you can tunnel the session through ssh easily with it [12:58] superm1: how easy? [12:58] I am aware of the technique [12:58] but why is it not in the gui? [12:58] i'm not sure why it's not in the gui [12:58] ubuntu is supposed to "just work" [12:58] i use it daily though [12:59] like this: vncviewer localhost:0 -via uesr@HOST [12:59] that will connect to an ssh server on port 22 of the machine host, and forward its :0 session of VNC === mohammad [n=mohammad@auth2-230.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:07] persia, is this the sort of thing you are referring to for a better idea of debian/copyright: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/mythbuntu-live-autostart-0707131850/mythbuntu-live-autostart-0.1/debian/copyright [01:07] superm1: That looks good to me. [01:08] ScottK: hello, thank you for reviewing Zekr. I cannot see why in your opinion the issue of MOZILA_FIVE_HOME is important. could you please give me some clue? [01:08] alright good. well if any other MOTUs are up for a revu, i've got one up here now http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6008 [01:11] superm1_: wouldn't build-depending on python (instead of python-dev) be enough? [01:11] or does it need the python-headers? [01:12] Well I guess it doesn't need the headers [01:12] This was my first python app that i hand wrote and packaged, so i wasn't too sure === anibal [n=anibal@debian/developer/anibal] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:13] you could also add a XS-Vcs-Browser field point to codebrowse on LP [01:14] Hey folks. [01:14] geser, okay i'll double check on the python-dev / python debacle and then add that field === Jazzva [n=sasa@cable-89-216-184-157.dynamic.sbb.co.yu] has joined #ubuntu-motu === persia wishes there was an easy way to distinguish between packages maintained with VCS in Debian and packages maintained with VCS in Ubuntu only. [01:16] another small note: please line-wrap this long line in the manpage [01:16] persia: doesn't looking to the vcs location help? [01:17] persia: Good point. Maybe XS-Ubuntu-Vcs-*? [01:17] geser: For alioth or launchpad, yes. For other sites, not so much. === minghua also knows that his own packages are not VCS maintained in Ubuntu. [01:18] minghua: Maybe, but my dream would also involve patching apt to only verify I really want to download when it is an Ubuntu VCS, and the transition would take a while... [01:18] So if an Ubuntu users follow those VCS links, he/she will be surprised. [01:18] minghua: In some cases (and it's not currently clear which). [01:19] persia: Are you talking about tools like Daniel's "bzr unpack"? I am not familiar with those. [01:20] minghua: Even just apt (try apt-get source for something with VCS links) [01:21] persia: Is that an Ubuntu-only feature? === geser looks on the agenda for the MOTU meeting and decides to move to bed [01:23] minghua: Maybe, but I don't see anything in the changelog (then again, there are some irregularities in the changelog) [01:23] persia: Thanks, I'll test. === minghua fires up gutsy pbuilder. [01:25] alright i've updated things per geser's recommendations if anyone else would like to take a look: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6009 === persia [n=persia@ubuntu/member/persia] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:28] heya everybody [01:29] Yay, beryl and its close relatives are gone! [01:30] Hi Toadstool. [01:30] Fujitsu: [01:30] ? === dabaR_ [n=dabaR@wnpgmb09dc1-159-42.dynamic.mts.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:30] hey Fujitsu! [01:30] how is it going? [01:30] beryl* has been removed. [01:30] Not bad, just woke up. [01:31] Fujitsu: but the new thing is still there? :-P === dabaR_ [n=dabaR@wnpgmb09dc1-159-42.dynamic.mts.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:31] Nafallo: replaced by compiz-fusion yeah === dabaR__ [n=dabaR@wnpgmb09dc1-159-42.dynamic.mts.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:31] Nafallo: Indeed, but it isn't /quite/ as crashy. [01:31] ehrm. not compcomm or something like that? [01:31] ... wow. beryl-core has 132 open bugs. [01:31] Compiz Fusion is the proper name. [01:32] compcomm was only temporary, and lasted in Ubuntu for a whole couple of days, I believe. [01:32] I'll just throw that info to /dev/null again. will never understand those projects. worse than soap operas. [01:32] Haha. === Fujitsu wishes malone had that mass-status-changing wishlist bug implemented. === TheMuso syncs daily CDs. [01:33] TheMuso: Finally taking the plunge? [01:34] Fujitsu: Not exactly. I always keep up with daily CD images. [01:34] Just in cas. [01:34] case [01:34] anyone ever ordered stuff from Dell? :-) === apacheLAGger [n=me@N792P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:34] I bought a laptop from them 18 months ago. [01:35] Fujitsu: good. when you checked the status page for your order. was the date it originally said the order should be delivered when it was actually delivered? :-) [01:35] No, it was delivered a couple of days later. [01:36] GAAH! [01:36] I think they updated the ETA a couple of days before it was meant to come, though. [01:36] I should call them and point out it's important that it will actually land on the 20th :-) [01:37] Nafallo: In my case it was one day earlier, I think. [01:37] minghua: that would be much better indeed :-) [01:38] minghua: Tribe-3 on the 19th ;-) === TheMuso looks at the non-existant MOTU meeting agenda. [01:38] I am in US though, so my case is not comparable with Fujitsu's, I suppose. [01:39] minghua: US, AU, SE ;-) === jwendell [n=wendell@ubuntu/member/wendell] has joined #ubuntu-motu === minghua thinks Nafallo chooses the most irrelevant place to live for the purpose of extrapolating from his and Fujitsu's data. [01:40] (unless Dell ships to moon) [01:40] minghua: tssss. "choose" ;-) [01:41] Oh, right, meeting. [01:41] minghua: I will be moving to London in a month or so... ;-) === minghua envies that European people can move to another country easily. === Fujitsu ponders rejecting 186 bugs. === blueCommand [n=bluecomm@unaffiliated/bluecommand] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:42] Fujitsu: DOIT! :-D === Fujitsu works out how to extract the bug numbers from the page. [01:43] er is the meeting worth staying at work a little longer? the agenda is quite empty === sistpoty [n=sistpoty@ubuntu/member/sistpoty] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:43] hi folks [01:43] Hi sistpoty. [01:44] hi Fujitsu [01:44] crap, motu meeting soon, no time for me to go out & get breakfast [01:44] there's nothing to discuss, so it should be fast [01:45] hopefully [01:45] hi ajmitch === Fujitsu is eating breakfast at the moment. [01:45] hi ajmitch and Toadstool [01:45] hey sistpoty === Bassetts [n=Bassetts@unaffiliated/bassetts] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:48] hey ajmitch [01:49] hi [01:53] persia: That "apt-get source" using Vcs-* field is Ubuntu specific, bug 115959. [01:53] Launchpad bug 115959 in apt "apt-get source should check the Vcs-Bzr field" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/115959 === porthose [n=charliej@24-119-100-168.cpe.cableone.net] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [02:00] MOTU Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now. All are welcome === mohammad [n=mohammad@eitnaa13.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:02] oh joy he just firgured out how to scream [02:03] zul: Hahaha. === Kioshen [n=Kioshen@modemcable117.230-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === sistpoty [n=sistpoty@ubuntu/member/sistpoty] has joined #ubuntu-motu === suppressingfire [n=burner@cpe-24-24-95-18.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === RAOF [n=chris@123-243-65-41.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:48] Morning RAOF. [02:49] Morning TheMuso === suppressingfire [n=burner@cpe-24-24-95-18.stny.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [02:51] RAOF: Meeting in -meeting if interested. [02:52] TheMuso: Thanks. I won't be around for too long, though === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-206-191-39-54.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:17] persia: Is it okay for me to wait 4 hours to start drafting minutes? [03:17] minghua: I don't have an issue with that. [03:18] minghua: 10% pay cut if you don't start now. [03:18] heh [03:18] haha [03:18] persia: Thanks for the instructions. I'll start later tonight (-0500). [03:18] ScottK: No problem, I'll take the pay cut. :-P [03:19] minghua: Great. Thanks again. [03:19] See and I save us money too. === TheMuso does not like that quit message. [03:21] It gets annoying after a while. [03:21] Yup. [03:21] TheMuso: The trick is to complain before he leaves (but I always forget) [03:21] And it has been quite a while. [03:21] A while ~= 2 times [03:21] persia: Right, that's the worst part. === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:23] persia: Am I being to hard on zekr about the setup script thing? [03:24] ScottK: I really don't know. I suspect that it wouldn't work in Debian due to xulrunner-dev vs. firefox-dev, but that's just a guess. I also think it's ugly, but that's just a personal preference. It needs review by someone more familiar with Java packaging, in my opinion. [03:25] Do we have anyone familiar with Java packaging? [03:26] we need sun-java6 u2 ... :) [03:26] Fujitsu: Depends on the definition of have. A very active member of the Debian Java team is often here, and the MOTU Java Growers might contain such people. === never|mobi [n=neversfe@pD9E2977B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:27] man-di is familiar with Java packaging. [03:28] Hi leonel. Did you see clamassassin got backported today. [03:28] yes ! [03:28] was great [03:29] Now that I'm authorized to approve backports, it should go a lot smoother. [03:29] ScottK: Congratulations! [03:29] that's great ScottK [03:29] ScottK: That's nice and convenient :) [03:29] Yes. [03:29] Thanks. [03:29] ScottK: grats [03:29] ScottK: btw.: there seems to be s.th. wrong with current clamav (couldn't dist-upgrade to it successfully)... known issue? [03:30] Archive Admins still have to buy it, but it's easier. [03:30] congrats btw. ;) [03:30] sistpoty: Using the 22-7? [03:30] kernel [03:31] sistpoty: Bug 124141 is fixed in 22-8. That's the only thing I know about. [03:31] Launchpad bug 124141 in linux-source-2.6.22 "kernel bug when installing clamav-freshclam" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124141 [03:31] ScottK: not quite sure, but I think so [03:31] (during dist-upgrade= [03:32] ScottK: nope. kernel didn't throw anything, but dpkg did [03:32] That's not it, then. [03:32] (damn, I should keep logs) [03:32] Hmmm [03:33] sistpoty: Doesn't dpkg keep a log by default? [03:33] no idea? === persia hunts [03:34] /var/log/dpkg.log [03:34] nope, just looked, doesn't show errors of interest [03:34] not very useful for this kind of error, though. [03:35] sistpoty: What is the status of the problematic package (dpkg -l ) now? [03:35] iirc it was the postinst? of clamav-freshclam bailing out on dist-upgrade [03:35] minghua: I purged it, and now I could easily reinstall it [03:35] I see. Tough to reproduce, then. [03:35] sistpoty: Try installing the old version, and then upgrading [03:36] persia: May depend on versions of other packages. [03:36] minghua: These things can be forced, and usually don't matter for postinst error tracing === freeflying [n=freeflyi@123.116.98.59] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:39] imo this failed: upgrade clamav-freshclam 0.90.3-1ubuntu1 0.90.3-1ubuntu2 [03:39] persia: Oh, I meant "the triggering of the bug may depend on the versions of other packages". [03:39] minghua: Ah. Good point. [03:39] IIRC there was a change in the postinst in there. [03:40] I agree it's worth trying reinstalling the old version and try upgrading again though, if someone wants to hunt it down. [03:40] But I'm not going to bother. [03:40] Unless it's my package, of course. [03:40] imo it doesn't matter that much if the upgrade path from feisty -> gutsy is fine [03:40] These problems are just too common in development branch. [03:40] Yes. [03:41] sistpoty: Agreed. [03:41] minghua: Package ownership is an interesting concept, given the nature of MOTU :) [03:42] paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29879 is the diff [03:42] http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29879 === sistpoty looks [03:43] Debian did it newal=`which newaliases || true` - Dunno what difference that makes. [03:45] ScottK: shouldn't make a real difference imo, given the [ -x $newal ] [03:45] When I merged 0.90.3-2ubuntu1 I used the Debian version. Not sure why you didn't get that. [03:46] Doesn't postinst run under -e? If this gets passed to the subshell, you'll break in the subshell, rather than coming back to postinst and finding the || true [03:46] persia: Sorry, I should have said "my Debian package". [03:46] minghua: No worries :) [03:47] persia: Dunno. That's why I ask. shwarma came up with the Ubuntu version of the change. [03:48] ScottK: I think without '|| true', when newaliases is not in $PATH, postinst will fail. [03:50] Yep. for example: [03:50] $ which non-existent; echo $? [03:50] 1 === MatthewV [n=MatthewV@202.183.120.246] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:51] And all maintainer scripts have "set -e". [03:51] minghua: doesn't fail in my dash at least [03:52] (i.e. x=`which non-existent` || true) [03:52] sistpoty: Is that under -e? [03:52] persia: yes [03:52] sistpoty: I am sorry. I don't have much context. What is the debdiff ScottK posted for? [03:53] http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29879/ === persia wonders if perhaps the subshell doesn't import -e, instead expecting the parent to break if the error isn't handled. [03:53] clamav-freshclam... only looked at this as well [03:53] sistpoty: With || true, it won't fail. I am assuming the debdiff is from current Ubuntu package to another one. [03:55] I thought it would have been from my previous version to newer one... but it shouldn't fail anyway when retrying the new debdiff (in case the old failed= [03:55] minghua: That was clamav 0.90.3-1ubuntu1 0.90.3-1ubuntu2 [03:55] s/new debdiff/new package/ [03:56] but as I said, I'm not even entirely sure if it was clamav-freshclam which failed or another clamav package [03:56] ScottK: I see. Then that diff shouldn't cause any problem. But is there a similar change in postrm? [03:56] The postinst does 'set -e' === ScottK looks [03:57] postrm does not attempt to remove the alias, so it doesn't come up. [03:57] minghua: ^^ [03:58] ScottK: How about prerm? Shouldn't the alias be cleaned up at some point? [03:58] Nope. It just stops the freshclam daemon. === persia thinks that's a bug - purging a package should clean up everything === ScottK would tend to think so, but the policy does not appear to be clear. [03:59] persia: Go read the policy on purging. It just talks about files. === ScottK agrees, but has been told this is a controversial matter in Debian. [03:59] ScottK: Before I go grabbing the package -- why -1ubuntu1 and -1ubuntu2? I see -2ubuntu1 already in archive. [04:00] ScottK: I know. The reason for this is that it's really hard to implement dropping users and groups in a safe manner, as they may own files that are not purge targets (tmpfiles, logfiles, etc.) === IanC26 [n=IanC26@2002:cb36:1c0c:4:216:6fff:fe39:ff6e] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:00] please, don't put too much energy in this particularly bad report ;) [04:00] minghua: That's another question I had for sistpoty. [04:01] Okay, then it's a bad report against old packages. :-P [04:01] sistpoty: Not all the upgrade bugs I saw had kernel errors in them. I may have duped a real issue to the kernel bug thinking it was all the same. === minghua decides to give up. [04:01] ScottK: when was it uploaded? I use a german mirror and lag one day === jml [n=jml@86.228.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:01] sistpoty: July 10. [04:02] then I misinterpreted dpkg.log... sorry === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:02] sistpoty: Should use aptitude, then you at least have a readable package version history. :-P === persia wonders about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/REVU vs. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU [04:03] bah... apt is all I need... if only I didn't forget to tee the log :P [04:04] ScottK: btw.: current version on my mirror is "clamav-freshclam 0.90.3-2ubuntu1"... I won't look at dpkg.log again, promised ;) [04:04] So you were upgrading to 0.90.3-2ubuntu1 when you got the error? [04:05] yep [04:05] let me go check the diff for that one. [04:05] from $unknown_version probably a few (4-8) weeks old [04:06] or let's rather say I was on gutsy already *g* [04:07] We may have a winner. Give me a moment to pastebin the diff. [04:07] sistpoty: Should be from 3-1ubuntu2 according to your dpkg.log. [04:08] http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29880 [04:08] (as your last upgrade was from -1ubuntu1 to -1ubuntu2) [04:08] Debian came up with that one all by themselves. Any thoughts? [04:09] Is it just me, or is $min not actually defined before use? [04:09] persia: It's just a diff, starting from line #107, no less. === ScottK notices line 5 of the paste and wonders. [04:10] minghua: True. Line 106 might be a definition for $min, but line 107 is a commented out definition for $min, which makes me suspicious. [04:10] Yeah, didn't see the commented-out line, sorry. [04:11] shouldn't matter... sh doesn't check for use before definition [04:12] Ahem. [04:12] * Fix newaliases test to not fail when newaliases isn't present (closes: #431990) [04:12] ScottK: What's the difference between /usr/bin/freshclam and /usr/bin/freshclam --quiet? === javier_galicia [n=Javier@189.130.231.178] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:12] That's in Debian changelog. Anybody read the Debian bug? [04:12] debian bug 431990 [04:12] Debian bug 431990 in clamav-base "clamav-base: installation fails: Not creating home directory `/var/lib/clamav'." [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/431990 [04:12] It's probably the fix in -1ubuntu2, though. [04:13] That's correct. [04:13] persia: Not sure. [04:13] I looked into this when I did the merge and then did a brain dump. === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:14] ScottK: heh. Try running them locally (I don't have any clam* installed) [04:14] hm... any idea when newaliases was added to exim4? [04:14] persia: That --quiet change is not important. Debian bug 427420. [04:14] Debian bug 427420 in clamav-freshclam "clamav-freshclam: Recurring warning messages in cron-mode" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/427420 [04:15] minghua: Right. It's just the only change I see in the diff for -2ubuntu1 (431990 having been fixed differently in -1ubuntu2) [04:15] hm... newaliases was added back in '02, so 431990 doesn't look like a candidate === minghua decides it's best to suppress curiosity and goes back to work. [04:16] minghua: +1 ;) [04:16] sistpoty: You're only the bug reporter: you don't get to set the Importance :) [04:16] I guess it might prove more useful to test if a dist-upgrade from feisty to gutsy works, than to look for sistpoty's weird bugs === jorgerosa [n=jorgeros@89.181.63.105] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:17] hello [04:17] hehe persia [04:17] Hi jorgerosa === ScottK wonders. The bug reports absolutely stopped after the 22-8 kernel got rolled out. [04:17] ---------- [04:17] Can anyone compile this for us, please, to .DEB file? [04:17] https://i-team.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/i-team/branches/doddiiteam/ [04:17] and send back to me, please? We need it for some tests here. Thankyou! [04:17] ---------- [04:17] !paste | jorgerosa [04:17] jorgerosa: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic) [04:17] Should have clamav 0.91-1 from Debian very soon, so I'll find out. [04:17] If there's still an upgrade problem. [04:18] jorgerosa: You'll probably do best to create a needs-packaging bug in LP. There's a fair bit of work that needs doing to make that into a debian-format package. [04:19] ok [04:20] jorgerosa: Also, to reduce packaging hassle later, it would be ideal if you could include the relevant license for the software in your repository. ./COPYING is common, as is ./LICENSE [04:24] persia: Im sorry guys, im not a coder (coders r away right now), im only windows pro, sorry there :( [04:26] jorgerosa: No problems. It would be great to get your software into Ubuntu, and it's really nice when software is written to work for both Windows and Linux (even more points for Mac OS X, other BSDs, etc.). Would you might letting the developers know that a license for the code would be preferred (as otherwise we can't distribute). [04:27] ok, /me is off to bed now... dawn is already breaking here [04:27] gn8 everyone [04:27] Bye guys [04:27] Night sistpoty. [04:27] Bye jorgerosa. === jorgerosa [n=jorgeros@89.181.63.105] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Bye] === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === persia wonders if there is an easy well to tell which update set restart-required === persia [n=persia@ubuntu/member/persia] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === persia [n=persia@ubuntu/member/persia] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-motu === IanC26 [n=IanC26@2002:908b:a58a:4:216:6fff:fe39:ff6e] has joined #ubuntu-motu === DarkMageZ [n=richard@ppp59-167-16-86.lns2.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:56] Hi Hobbsee. === Fujitsu complains about the lack of mass-status-changing on LP again. [04:57] But Fujitsu, why would you possibly want to do that. I don't understand. === ScottK ducks. [04:57] A 3.5KB CC line is just wrong. === ajmitch takes the bitter pills away from ScottK === ScottK is old enough to be entitled to some bitterness. [04:58] hey Fujitsu [04:58] Fujitsu: er...i think you can... [04:58] hello Hobbsee [04:58] Fujitsu: How about the mail interface? [04:58] Hobbsee: Well, I mean without compiling a lot of email addresses. [04:58] persia: hence the CC line [04:59] persia: Right, that's what I've done. Just confirmed with ubotu that they're all right. [04:59] Fujitsu: ah, right [05:00] Fujitsu: From beryl to compiz-fusion? [05:01] minghua: The beryl-core bugs.. [05:05] Fujitsu: Don't [05:06] Unless there is a way to mass-reject bugs too === hoora_ [i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-cccc9926b8ada579] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Jazzva [n=sasa@cable-89-216-184-157.dynamic.sbb.co.yu] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Kopete] [05:07] Amaranth: What? I am mass-rejecting them... [05:07] oh, i thought you were moving them to compiz [05:07] i was going to get all stabby [05:08] Ewww, no. [05:08] I'm not /that/ stupid. [05:08] You wouldn't have been the first person to think of it [05:08] Really? Wow. [05:09] I think it's my question that caused confusion, sorry. [05:09] I find Compiz a tad more stable than Beryl. [05:09] We're trying :) [05:09] I've been using it with little trouble for three weeks now. [05:09] btw, if you don't like gnome-session stalling for 2 minutes edit /usr/bin/compiz and remove --sm-disable === Fujitsu hits the send button. [05:11] Hah. persia - beat you by 5 seconds. [05:11] ScottK: In what? [05:12] Replying to the MOTU merge process email. [05:12] Ah. [05:12] Fujitsu: are you getting beryl removed from the archive then? [05:12] Amaranth: It vanished about 14 hours ago. [05:12] ah [05:12] There are 3 bits remaining, which I filed a removal request for a couple of hours back. [05:12] this is probably really mean but... === Amaranth dances and cheers [05:13] ScottK: No contest: we're discussing entirely parallel things :) Anyway, the meeting discussion was only a determination that having a documented merge policy would be a good thing, and that ideas should be discussed for the next meeting. [05:13] persia: Was joking. Good to hear. [05:14] Amaranth: Ah, good. I was hoping it wasn't going to be some great rational for keeping it around. [05:14] I was like `Oh, crap... this doesn't look good' [05:14] haha [05:14] ScottK: Separately, do you think "last merger", "last uploader", and "last person to patch" are three different concepts, or just different facets of the same thing? [05:15] Facets of the same thing. Whoever touched it last. Otherwise it gets too complex. [05:15] There are exceptions. I wouldn't count rebuilds. [05:15] Gaaaaah, mail server doesn't like me sending that many. [05:15] haha [05:15] ScottK: Hmm.. I wonder. I've sent a few rebuilds in, for which I would have no idea how to process a merge, but which helped with library transitions, etc. I'm also not sure about spelling corrections, .desktop files, dependency adjustments, etc. [05:15] looks like spam === ceros [n=user@c-76-111-84-156.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:16] persia: Yes, but then there have been cases where I fixed bugs that I wanted to make sure didn't get lost in the next merge. [05:16] The problem is how do you decide. [05:16] To copy a wiki page, no better way than just create an empty new page, press "edit" of old page, then copy and paste. Right? [05:17] ScottK: Yes. I've had those (even in one case, where a .desktop file installation (but not the file itself) was dropped in a merge) [05:17] I also think take backs after someone steals your package are fair. [05:17] ScottK: In that case two wrongs do make a right. === persia doesn't agree with the concept of package ownership [05:17] Not ownership, but the one that knows it best. === tristanbob_ [n=tristan@oalug/member/tristanbob] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:18] The first time you have to merge a package it takes a while to reall grok the merge. After that it gets easier and the error rate gets lower. [05:18] Personally, the only packages I'd rather people not touch unless tey have asked me, are accessibility/speech packages. [05:18] they even [05:19] People doing the same package consistently will give better quality. [05:19] Perhaps I need to be more clear. When a good patch (or very intrusive patch, etc.) is made, the person making that patch is a good person with whom to discuss the implications. For many fixes, it seems better to just apply the fix. Merges are a little special, in my book, as there are usually undocumented justifications for the Debian diff. === javier_galicia_ [n=Javier@189.130.231.178] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:20] Team maintenance has advantages and disadvantages. Consistency in doing the merges helps with the disadvantages. [05:20] TheMuso: Really? How about someone correcting some spelling in a translation, etc. [05:20] persia: Well thats different, but most of the packages I work with don't carry a lot of that stuff, in Universe at least. [05:20] ScottK: Yes! That's why we need some documentation: it improves consistency. [05:21] Documenation is great. I'm not opposed to it. [05:21] Documentation is great as long as I am not required to write them. [05:22] The person doing the merge being familiar with the package also improves consistency. [05:22] I even write it sometimes. [05:22] documentation that is. [05:22] TheMuso: Ah. Depends on the package, I guess. I've just had a couple contributors ask me because they didn't expect a merge for their two-line patch for something small (the case where it's too hard), but I also don't see any reason that a developer who usually follows a package shouldn't adopt without too much coordination with the author of the two line patch. [05:23] ScottK: Yes, although familiarity != last to touch necessarily. [05:23] That's true. [05:23] The problem is give me an algorithm that useable for most familiar? [05:23] Last to touch is excessively simplistic, but executable. [05:24] ScottK: Exactly :) I think that's the discussion AndyP is starting, which would be a good thing (but I need to think more before I have any suggestions). [05:24] Last to touch plus some comments about take backs when appropriate would get us pretty well there. [05:24] The real problem is people who don't even bother to ask when there's no reason they can't. [05:25] But the biggest problem is the fact that people just go and do the merge. [05:25] ScottK: Also, should we follow last-to-touch for only merges, or for any uploads? If I'm just rebuilding, how should I indicate that I don't want last-to-touch (except perhaps for the 10 days or so after the rebuild)? [05:25] ScottK: yep [05:25] TheMuso: Yes. Exactly. And then we need to fix them :( [05:25] Yep. [05:25] persia: If the changelog has the word build in the Debian revision, it doesn't count. [05:26] On the other hand, I've had a few merges done this cycle that were helpful, did the right thing, and happened entirely while I slept, which I found convenient. [05:26] ScottK: Aye. I have recently been syncing a lot of doko's rebuilds that were on MoM. === Fujitsu complains that nobody has stolen azureus yet. [05:26] ScottK: How about -38-ubuntu6, where the last 5 were rebuilds? [05:26] Fujitsu: I thought I saw a sync request today. That should clear the last-touched bit :) [05:26] persia: Really? === Fujitsu looks. [05:26] No automated algorithm will be both executable and cover all cases. [05:27] persia: I thought rebuilds only were buildx versioning. [05:27] ScottK: Yep. We need to find a best practice. [05:27] That'll never get accepted... There are Ubuntu changes. [05:27] Though it might be best to just start afresh. [05:27] TheMuso: Yes, but we don't use -1ubuntu1build1, preferring instead -1ubuntu2. === ScottK hopes AndyP is taking notes. [05:27] persia: Oh for ubuntu modified packages, sure. [05:28] TheMuso: Which flips the last-touched bit for the rebuilder :) [05:28] yup === vbabiy [n=vbabiy@pool-71-164-85-238.albyny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:29] gpocentek: In response to your last e-mail, his work continues to be error prone and he's defensive about it -1. [05:30] ScottK: Do you mean andrea? === ScottK has touched a debdiff and a sync request and they both needed a little work. [05:30] Yes [05:30] ScottK: could you reply on the list? [05:30] Yeah I've had to prompt about a few things when I've worked with him as well. [05:30] I will if TheMuso does too. [05:30] :) [05:31] if you're not confortable with it forget it [05:31] ScottK: I've already said enough I think. Other people have raised questions about his work quality. === ScottK will do it. [05:31] gpocentek: Was kidding. [05:31] hehe ok :) === persia hasn't seen much channel traffic either, but hasn't been sponsoring the work, so feels unqualified to have an official opinion === teer2 [n=teer2@c-68-52-118-61.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:34] Hello all - thanks for your continued hard work keeping the packages maintained. I used Synaptic to install Democracy Player - as always, smooth install, but the version is (in some ways) not compatible with their servers since it is a few revs behind. I was wondering where the responsibility falls to get updates into Synaptic? Should I go poke the Democracy Player developers to get something to the Ubuntu MOTU folk, or how does th [05:34] Sent. He's also the one that got pissy about stealing merges. [05:36] gpocentek: How was that? [05:36] ScottK: Out of the contributers we are working with, there are one or two who I feel aren't working with the rest of the MOTU team, andrea being one of those. [05:36] teer2: You'll do best to open a bug report in LP. If the gutsy DP isn't compatible with the servers, it'll likely get fixed really soon. If a released version isn't compatible, we'll need to work out a plan to keep up to date, which might take a while, but a bug is still the best way to start. === ScottK agrees. [05:37] persia: I am running Feisty - if that makes a difference. Eagerly awaiting the Gusty release! [05:37] !backports | teer2 [05:37] teer2: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging [05:37]