[03:01] <Phrozen_One> how can I remove the local X server, but keep it working for the thin clients?
[03:47] <sbalneav> Morning all
[03:49] <cliebow_> Ho
[04:22] <moquist> sgonzalez: hey there
[04:22] <moquist> sgonzalez: I was just about to ask. :)
[04:22] <cliebow_> ask?
[04:22] <moquist> I intermittently have trouble with Feisty install CDs. I get dropped to the (initramfs) prompt with the message "Can't access tty; job control turned off".
[04:23] <sgonzalez> moquist: just sent you an email. looks like I need the LSI card. The adaptec does RAID with software and is troublesome.
[04:23] <moquist> One time I got that on a TC, and the problem was that it couldn't mount root ('cuz I'd screwed up the server).
[04:23] <ogra> it doesnt find the cd drive
[04:23] <moquist> sgonzalez: oy
[04:23] <moquist> ogra: makes sense. any idea why it would happen sometimes and not others, when you don't change the hardware? i.e., I reboot a few times and eventually it works.
[04:24] <ogra> sounds liek a race condition
[04:24] <moquist> Also, I read somewhere that you can select the "additional drivers CD" option and leave the install CD in there, and that makes it work. sometimes.
[04:24] <ogra> if the Cd initiaizes fast enough it works ...
[04:24] <moquist> ogra: yeah, it does.
[04:24] <moquist> hrm.
[04:24] <ogra> if it is delayed due to whatever it doesnt
[04:24] <moquist> so is there anything better to do about this than reboot over and over until it works?
[04:25] <moquist> I had *just* gotten started poking around in the init scripts in the initramfs when the system worked the next time I rebooted, so I stopped messing with it.
[04:25] <ogra> well, its the installer ... thats something different
[04:25] <cliebow_> is the problem the high compression in the cd?
[04:26] <ogra> i really think its just related to spin-up speed
[04:26] <moquist> OK, so perhaps a different burn could be better.
[04:26] <moquist> A slower burn on a good-quality CDR would probably do better.
[04:26] <moquist> sgonzalez: you following?
[04:27] <moquist> (sgonzalez had this trouble this morning)
[04:27] <ogra> well, you shouldnt burn bootable CDs faster than 8x anyway
[04:27] <cliebow_> moquist:what are you working on these days? unh prep?
[04:28] <sgonzalez> moquist: yes. I will try the original cd that actually installed. if that's the case, then it might be Dave's cd.
[04:28] <moquist> cliebow_: unh is done. I'm working on pam-ssh (a project scottie and I cooked up) and getting schools up and running.
[04:28] <moquist> sgonzalez: Yeah, Dave is *terrible* about burning CDs too fast.
[04:29] <sbalneav> ogra: Hey, how's the tooth!
[04:29] <moquist> sgonzalez: Unless there's a reason not to, I always burn CDs as slow as possible (I usually type 4 and get 8x).
[04:29] <sbalneav> get my patches to jetpipe?
[04:29] <sgonzalez> moquist: evil Dave!! I have drives formatting right now. When that's done, I'll get my CD and try.
[04:29] <ogra> sbalneav, the tooth was fine yesterday already ... the rest is dizzy and on drugs ....
[04:29] <moquist> ogra: thanks; that makes perfect sense and is probably what is going on. This should be googleable somewhere...
[04:29] <ogra> sbalneav, yes, but i'm totally into iso building/testing/fixing atm
[04:30] <sbalneav> OK, I'll leave you to it.
[04:31] <cliebow_> moquist: i have umpteen laptops to reimage..four labs torn to hell..
[04:32] <cliebow_> 315 lab->316  312 lab->315 208 lab->312 308 lab->208 plato lab ->313..
[04:34] <moquist> blee. sounds grand.
[05:08] <sgonzalez> moquist: after formatting the drives and using another CD, things are progressing. might even work *gasp* I'll let you know. I do get error when loading the installer, but googling tells me that a lot of people get the same ones.
[05:08] <cliebow_> brb
[06:02] <moquist> sgonzalez: sounds good
[06:02] <moquist> sgonzalez: BTW, I forgot to recommend XChat, which is my preferred IRC client for Winders(TM).
[06:11] <sgonzalez> moquist: I'm actually using xchat... I feel like such a pro ;) So edubuntu is installed. I'm testing with a client right now. So far a really slow boot, but there's the login screen just now.
[06:12] <sgonzalez> I forgot to partition during install. Can I do it now or do I need to reinstall for that?
[06:18] <moquist> sgonzalez: Yeah, that's going to require a reinstallation.
[06:19] <moquist> sgonzalez: how slow is a "really slow boot"?
[06:19] <moquist> sgonzalez: and FWIW, you're in exactly the right place to discuss it. :)
[06:22] <sgonzalez> Not sure.. I'll time it next time, but it's a few minutes. Thought it was going to crash when loading X.  Second login is quicker. Installing updates now. Then I'll winbind it to ADS and try with non-local users. That'll be the real test.
[06:28] <moquist> Then try it with a user whose account is in AD and whose home directory is on your Edubuntu+winbind server.
[06:31] <moquist> ogra: surely it would be possible to munge about at the (initramfs) prompt to re-initialize the installer, re-init the CDROM, and try again?
[06:32] <ogra> probably
[06:32] <ogra> but you get that propmpt in various other cases as well
[06:32] <ogra> that would ecome a long text ;)
[07:06] <Athanasius> can somebody help me with a login problem on a thin client?
[07:09] <Athanasius> I am not able to log in on the thin client
[07:09] <ogra> did you change any IP settings of the server after you set up ltsp ?
[07:10] <ogra> if so, run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
[07:10] <Athanasius> no
[07:11] <Athanasius> I just make users like normal right?  Like on a regular desktop?
[07:12] <ogra> you make them on the server ... just use the gui tool ;)
[07:13] <Athanasius> system>admin>Users and Groups right?
[07:13] <ogra> yep
[07:14] <Athanasius> hmm...
[07:17] <Athanasius> does the server and the clients have internet by default?
[07:21] <Athanasius> everything is working fine now, do I have to update the sshkeys every time I add a new user?
[07:23] <ogra> no
[07:23] <ogra> only if you change the ip settings of the interface the clients are connected to
[07:23] <ogra> (which usually never heppens ;) )
[07:25] <moquist> sgonzalez: Edubuntu TCs will boot more slowly than K12LTSP TCs for now. The next release of Ubuntu (October) will see a big improvement in TC boot time.
[07:25] <moquist> sgonzalez: remember when I said that was the only significant drawback of Edubuntu? :)
[07:29] <ogra> gah
[07:29] <ogra> GAH
[07:29] <ogra> sorry for the noise ... one more
[07:30] <ogra> looking for amd64 testers specifically ;)
[07:32] <stgraber> ogra: I posted in #ubuntu-iso as well, let's see if some of our amd64 testers are available
[07:32] <ogra> yeah
[07:32] <ogra> i386 server worked fine for me btw ...
[07:32] <stgraber> (my only amd64 computer is my laptop and I never do testing on it)
[07:32] <stgraber> ok, I'm downloading the iso, will have it in ~10 min
[07:33] <ogra> same here ... with the difference that i'd do testing but ran out of diskspace to do so
[07:33] <ogra> and it doesnt boot from usb :/
[08:28] <mcsd> does xorg.conf get read at every boot? m
[08:35] <Shadow31> Hey, all. I've been having problems with Firefox on my LTSP thin client network. Firefox boots fine off of the server, but on the thin client it opens and then immediately closes. Running it from the terminal, the error message is: "Segmentation fault (core dumped)". I tried reinstalling Edubuntu, and the problem still occurs. I am using XDMCP to connect to the thin clients. Ideas, anyone?
[08:59] <sbalneav> Shadow31: How much ram on the thin clients, and do you have network swap turned on?
[10:08] <LaserJock> is the meeting over?
[10:08] <juliux> LaserJock, there was no meeting yet;)
[10:09] <LaserJock> oh, really?
[10:09] <juliux> no traffic in -meeting sind 20:05
[10:10] <Knightlust> heh, i just logged in.
[10:10] <moquist> LaserJock: hey!
[10:10] <Knightlust> so will the meeting push through?
[10:10] <LaserJock> ogra: are we having a meeting?
[10:18] <LaserJock> hi pips1
[10:18] <pips1> hi LaserJock
[10:18] <pips1> isn't there a meeting?
[10:19] <LaserJock> well
[10:19] <LaserJock> I don't see RichEd
[10:19] <pips1> hm
[10:19] <LaserJock> and I haven't heard anything from ogra yet
[10:19] <pips1> I heard you are taking some time off?
[10:19] <LaserJock> I guess that means we get to run our own meeting!
[10:19] <LaserJock> yes
[10:19] <pips1> in what way?
[10:19] <LaserJock> I just dropped by for the meeting (to bug ogra about some stuff) :-)
[10:20] <LaserJock> well, I gotta get my PhD done real soon
[10:20] <pips1> I notice you still post to the mailing list...
[10:20] <pips1> ic
[10:20] <LaserJock> and I've been neglecting family, house, etc.
[10:21] <LaserJock> yes, I'm basically just using email
[10:21] <LaserJock> and getting rid of projects
[10:21] <pips1> irc is a time sucker
[10:21] <LaserJock> handing things off to other people
[10:21] <LaserJock> it is
[10:21] <LaserJock> and I keep ending up volunteering for things when I'm on IRC :-)
[10:21] <pips1> hehe
[10:22] <LaserJock> so I'm taking a bit of a vacation
[10:22] <LaserJock> to get real life in shape
[10:22] <pips1> well, everyone does what they can... I've also been very busy with RL
[10:22] <pips1> good
[10:23] <LaserJock> I think I was fairly close to loosing my PhD, which isn't good
[10:23] <pips1> woah!
[10:23] <pips1> no good
[10:23] <LaserJock> well, I put in 50+ hrs/week on Ubuntu for almost 1.5 years
[10:23] <LaserJock> you just can't do research and write, etc. with that
[10:24] <pips1> that's a lot of time investment!
[10:25] <LaserJock> especially when it's volunteer
[10:25] <pips1> yeah
[10:25] <LaserJock> as I can't do "but I'm getting paid for it" to justify it ;-)
[10:25] <pips1> I hear you
[10:26] <pips1> hmm
[10:26] <pips1> I do wonder what's up with RichEd and ogra
[10:26] <LaserJock> I wonder if they had a conf call or something
[10:27] <LaserJock> or another meeting
[10:27] <pips1> is ogra travelling? he was attending a sprint, no?
[10:27] <pips1> anyway
[10:28] <LaserJock> I thought he was back
[10:28] <LaserJock> anybody got news worth discussion?
[10:28] <pips1> btw, I will start teaching a course at my uni next semester in web engineering... I'm preparing for that
[10:28] <LaserJock> while we're waiting
[10:29] <pips1> well, did you see my post about the Intel joins OLPC ?
[10:30] <LaserJock> yes
[10:30] <LaserJock> I saw something about it the other day
[10:30] <LaserJock> I'm a little puzzled as to what the point is
[10:30] <pips1> ?
[10:30] <LaserJock> well, Intel joins the OLPC board but continues to make ClassmatePC
[10:31] <LaserJock> does Intel joining the OLPC board do anything other than nice "We love each other"  PR boost?
[10:32] <pips1> well, do you know if they continue with the classmatepc for sure? I suppose they wont drop it, since it must have been quite an investment... and they already started selling them...
[10:33] <LaserJock> I believe I read that they were continuing with the ClassmatePC, "business as usual"
[10:33] <LaserJock> I wonder if the ClassmatePC will get an XO interface or something
[10:34] <LaserJock> I did see that OLPC will be using Intel processors for the OLPC server
[10:34] <pips1> oh
[10:34] <pips1> olpc has a server ?
[10:34] <LaserJock> well, you can't just have a million OLPC laptops running around a country
[10:34] <LaserJock> :-)
[10:35] <pips1> heh
[10:35] <LaserJock> you gotta be able to flash the hard drives
[10:35] <LaserJock> provide infrastructure, etc.
[10:36] <LaserJock> I think they had a logo thingy that went, "One laptop per child, one server per classrom"
[10:38] <pips1> heh
[10:38] <LaserJock> highvoltage and I had some ideas about classroom servers
[10:38] <LaserJock> when we were in Sevilla
[10:38] <pips1> ?
[10:38] <pips1> go on
[10:39] <LaserJock> well, it seemed like a thin client might be an interesting starting point for one of these servers
[10:39] <pips1> I don't understand
[10:39] <LaserJock> that is, the thin client hardware, not a thin client in general
[10:40] <LaserJock> well, these schools are going to need low spec servers as well
[10:40] <LaserJock> they need to be cheap, quiet, light, and low energy
[10:40] <pips1> right
[10:40] <pips1> but what about storage?
[10:41] <LaserJock> similar to the Classmate PC
[10:41] <LaserJock> big flash disks
[10:41] <LaserJock> perhaps you could get away with one of those small hardrives
[10:41] <LaserJock> but you probably could make one without a fan
[10:42] <LaserJock> probably battery powered even
[10:42] <LaserJock> course I'm no hardware expert so I could be just full of crap ;-)
[10:42] <pips1> hehe
[10:43] <LaserJock> but it is something that Intel will need to figure out for the Classmate
[10:43] <pips1> change of topic: what do you think about os on a usb stick?
[10:44] <LaserJock> as in running the whole OS off of a stick?
[10:44] <pips1> yes, i.e. you just "borrow" the keyboard, screen... from wherever you are.
[10:45] <pips1> and carry your personal os, with your configuration and data, in your pocket?
[10:45] <LaserJock> well, at least at this point, it seems like you need pretty minimal or specialized OSs to do it well
[10:45] <LaserJock> some people have put Ubuntu on USB sticks
[10:45] <pips1> backup would need to be solved somehow... but other than that?
[10:46] <Knightlust> I've been using Puppy linux while travelling since i dont want to lug around a heavy laptop.
[10:46] <LaserJock> I've wanted to do it before when I've gone to my parents
[10:46] <pips1> Knightlust: right!
[10:46] <stgraber> Works fine on USB HDD, on flash memory you have the maximum number of rewrite which will cause problem
[10:46] <stgraber> with swap and tmp for instance
[10:46] <LaserJock> what'd be nice is if it was more like a portable OS
[10:47] <LaserJock> where you had your home machine
[10:47] <LaserJock> then you plug in your USB disk and sync up
[10:47] <LaserJock> go wherever, do whatever
[10:47] <LaserJock> come back, plug it back in, and it syncs from the stick
[10:47] <stgraber> Installing on a laptop IDE HDD inside one of those USB IDE box works really fine, 20GB with swap+/+home, usb bootable and no problem with Xorg as xorg.conf is no longer needed with gutsy
[10:47] <pips1> LaserJock: so you would prefer os and configuration on stick, but data remote... hmmm. but what if you don't have network access to your data?
[10:48] <LaserJock> pips1: no, data on stick too, but easily syncable when I get back
[10:48] <pips1> stgraber: interesting
[10:48] <LaserJock> I want to be able to use a stick when traveling, etc. but I don't want to use it *all* the time
[10:49] <LaserJock> stgraber: yeah, I'm worried about the max, rewrites on the ClassmatePC
[10:49] <pips1> ha
[10:50] <LaserJock> it's not like you can just drop in a new drive
[10:50] <LaserJock> at least I don't think so
[10:50] <LaserJock> you can use the SD slot though and do most stuff there
[10:52] <Knightlust> btw, i assume that the meeting is cancelled then.. there isn't any outstanding stuff to discuss on anyway, right?
[10:52] <Knightlust> except for tribe3
[10:52] <LaserJock> well, I assumed we'd get a tech update from ogra on Tribe 3 stuff
[10:53] <LaserJock> I'm waiting on oli to look at a new meta-package I made
[10:53] <Knightlust> i see, hehe. ayt then, better get back to work.
[10:53] <pips1> yeah, I will wonder off too, it's late here..
[10:53] <pips1> *wander
[10:54] <LaserJock> pips1: any status on edubuntu.org?
[10:54] <pips1> stgraber: you don't feel tired, do you?
[10:55] <pips1> LaserJock: same. no progress whatsoever :-(( I haven't heard anything from highvoltage either
[10:55] <LaserJock> heh
[10:55] <LaserJock> sounds like we are all in the same boat
[10:55] <pips1> rowing RL
[10:55] <LaserJock> amen to that ;-)
[10:55] <pips1> :-)
[10:55] <stgraber> pips1: well I didn't sleep much with this tribe-3 testing :)
[10:55] <stgraber> pips1: but as I'm on holiday it helps
[10:56] <pips1> stgraber: oh, you are testing... nice!
[10:56] <stgraber> pips1: yep + fixing reported bugs for isotesting.stgraber.org, writing spec+bug report, usual work ... :)
[10:56] <pips1> btw, I was mightily impressed with your test-tracking-website :-)
[10:57] <stgraber> when I've some time I'm also working on a reworked version of the thin-client-manager
[10:57] <pips1> great
[10:57] <stgraber> with less buggy VNC and better classroom overview (installing it in a secondary school here for testing)
[10:58] <pips1> nice one
[10:59] <stgraber> http://www.stgraber.org/download/tcm.png
[10:59] <pips1> is your testing low-profile / below the radar ... or do have support from the school?
[11:00] <stgraber> it's just "private" testing in my father's classroom, goal is then to present a working classroom to the RPN
[11:00] <pips1> *click*
[11:00] <stgraber> Computer School network for the canton of Neuchatel
[11:00] <LaserJock> stgraber: excellent
[11:00] <pips1> stgraber: very nice
[11:01] <LaserJock> well, I guess I better be off before I volunteer myself for something ;-)
[11:01] <stgraber> LaserJock: :)
[11:01] <LaserJock> it was nice to drop in and see you all
[11:02] <LaserJock> and I *do* check email so if you do need something from me that's the way to go
[11:02] <pips1> stgraber: if you need help convincing the authorities... when we were down in Seville, we visited the local governments ICT management center, where they manage the whole district's school network...
[11:03] <pips1> LaserJock: alright. nice to talk to you too
[11:03] <pips1> oops
[11:03] <pips1> stgraber: ... I was thinking that our swiss educational / ict authorities should go an visit them..
[11:04] <pips1> they can provide data about their experiences... costs, benefits, problems and their solutions...
[11:05] <stgraber> goal so far is to end up with an official test project in a primary or secondary school to evaluate the real costs, usability, needs for a ubuntu/edubuntu based installation
[11:05] <stgraber> with or without thin clients
[11:05] <pips1> good goal
[11:05] <stgraber> (as I only have one 2Ghz server and 6 <500Mhz clients for the current classroom, I was almost force to use thin clients here :))
[11:06] <pips1> :-)
[11:06] <stgraber> and the 2Ghz really has problem handling 6 clients, I'll add 1GB of ram next week and hope things will go better
[11:07] <stgraber> a dual-core system when it's about running hundreds of processus
[11:07] <stgraber> a dual-core system is so much faster when it's about running hundreds of processus
[11:08] <pips1> I wouldn't know
[11:08] <pips1> good luck with your project !!
[11:08] <stgraber> at least we now have kerberos/ldap/local account syncronisation working which was the first main problem, the rest being details like reseting students accounts every time they log in, Microsoft Terminal Server access (rdesktop) and things like that
[11:09] <stgraber> and of course for the teachers to actually use it :)
[11:09] <pips1> If you think I might be able to help, don't be shy to get in touch
[11:09] <stgraber> sure
[11:09] <pips1> re kerberos/ldap ... I assume you configured all that manually yourself then?
[11:10] <stgraber> yes
[11:10] <stgraber> even had to write a small PAM module for local account creation
[11:10] <pips1> !
[11:11] <pips1> stgraber: sounds like you are quite determined and with the technical wits to steam ahead! :-)
[11:15] <pips1> stgraber: it's encouraging to hear that you are going for it. I figured that the swiss are too rich, happily throwing their money around, paying those license fees.. ;-)
[11:15] <pips1> hi ogro
[11:15] <pips1> hi ogra
[11:15] <pips1> we were hoping for a tech update from you.. :-D
[11:19] <pips1> ogra the bot
[11:24] <pips1> stgraber: aren't there any problems with course materials (flash, director) that only work on windoze or mac, in Neuchatel?
[11:26] <stgraber> pips1: reason why they have a Windows link on their desktop opening a rdesktop on a Windows Terminal Server
[11:26] <stgraber> for Win-Only application
[11:27] <stgraber> pips1: anyway, the most used ressources are simple website, so a firefox+flash plugin is enough in most cases
[11:27] <pips1> ic
[11:28] <pips1> so the flash content is fairly old (flash 7)...
[11:29] <stgraber> they have the flash 9 plugins + a custom librairy in order to have sound working on the thin clients as well
[11:29] <pips1> they?
[11:29] <stgraber> so they could even use some of those language flash software I've seen using speaker/microphone without any problem
[11:30] <stgraber> first they = thin clients
[11:30] <stgraber> second = students
[11:30] <pips1> aha
[11:31] <pips1> the the proprietary flash plugin is available at version )?
[11:31] <pips1> *version 9?
[11:31] <stgraber> yes
[11:31] <pips1> oh
[11:31] <stgraber> Firefox says : Shockwave Flash 9.0 r31
[11:31] <stgraber> here
[11:31] <stgraber> (gutsy)
[11:31] <pips1> alright
[11:32] <stgraber> feisty already has a 9.0 version IIRC
[11:32] <stgraber> or it's in feisty-backport
[11:33] <pips1> I kept putting off my dist-upgrade from dapper (!) ... but dapper is real old.. so I gotta do it
[11:34] <stgraber> I'm also starting to have some hardware issue when installing dapper on fresh hardware
[11:34] <stgraber> hopefully gutsy+1 should be LTS
[11:35] <pips1> so the school's got a windows terminal server. what will your "sales pitch" for edubuntu be?
[11:37] <stgraber> the terminal server I'm using is one used by another school with some Linux terminals
[11:37] <stgraber> all the others computers have local Windows XP Pro installed
[11:38] <stgraber> main advantage of Edubuntu as I currently do it (thin clients), is the easy maintenance and update it provides
[11:38] <stgraber> you just configure and update a single server
[11:39] <stgraber> also way more customizable than what they can do with Windows, for primary schools they'd also have tons of funny software
[11:39] <stgraber> to learn numbers, vocabulary, ...
[11:39] <pips1> hmm
[11:39] <stgraber> for the secondary level it's more focused on the science tools (ok, we have LaserJock so ...) :)
[11:40] <pips1> so you would do a demo and then try to convince them to replace the windows workstations with linux thin clients?
[11:41] <pips1> the question is: replace? or add?
[11:41] <pips1> if you *add* the linux thin client solution, there is even more software to maintain...
[11:44] <stgraber> they won't easily switch a 4000 computers network from Windows to Linux (4000 is a fictive number, but that's all school computers of the canton of neuchatel)
[11:45] <pips1> nope
[11:45] <pips1> unless there is a clear political decision made
[11:46] <pips1> based on facts about benefits...
[11:47] <stgraber> current goal is to show to their techs that it's actually possible to switch, let them play with it and hope they'll enjoy Linux/Ubuntu and want to switch schools
[11:47] <pips1> please don't think I'm discouraging you. I think a pilot test is a great first step
[11:47] <stgraber> the only quick way to have things to change is by a political decision, but It's not likely to happen yet
[11:48] <pips1> yeah, winning the techie stakeholders is important
[11:48] <stgraber> Looks like guys here don't have any problem depending on Microsoft and other proprietary softwares/standards
[11:48] <pips1> nah, it's easier to swim with the big stream
[11:50] <Burgundavia> http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7064252512.html <-- useless Windows software comes to Linux
[11:51] <pips1> nobody likes to take "unnecessary" risks, especially not school authorities... and in switzerland, the pain (from proprietary stuff/license costs) is just not big enough, me thinks
[11:52] <stgraber> Burgundavia: I heard of that thing, is this the one that simply restore a disk image, downloaded from the network every time you boot the computer ?
[11:52] <Burgundavia> stgraber: doesn't do it from the network, it does it from a special partition
[11:52] <Burgundavia> the issue is that you need do backflips to update it
[11:54] <stgraber> we have more or less similar system at school with local ghost images on all computers, in case of problem you put a restore CD which simply runs ghost and 5 minutes after you have a clean system, but reseting it every-time you boot it is just stupid in my opinion
[11:54] <stgraber> that just means that you have bad sys admins who are unable to configure correctly your system :)
[11:58] <pips1> stgraber: just to let you know. i canton zurich, one of the showstoppers is one particular required course material, a 'director' authored french language cd-rom commissioned by the canton itself.
[12:00] <stgraber> :(
[12:03] <pips1> good talking to you
[12:03] <pips1> i'm off, see you!