[12:18] <mathiaz> how can I add new test case or rename test cases on the iso testing tracker ?
[12:22] <stgraber> mathiaz: you can't (yet)
[12:22] <mathiaz> stgraber: can you rename some of the test cases for me ?
[12:22] <stgraber> yes
[12:23] <mathiaz> stgraber: for the ubuntu server cds, I'd like to rename 'LVM+LAMP' to 'LAMP'
[12:23] <stgraber> ok
[12:24] <stgraber> mathiaz: done
[12:24] <mathiaz> stgraber: excellent. Thank you.
[12:24] <stgraber> np
[12:25] <stgraber> an UI will be written but it'll most likely be for gutsy+1 and the QA Tracker as testcases for ISOs aren't supposed to change that often to be high priority
[12:25] <stgraber> (I think that's the only thing you can't do with the current Admin UI)
[12:43] <stgraber> pitti: How are Edubuntu and Xubuntu desktop going ?
[12:44] <pitti> stgraber: edubuntu lives should be up, xubuntu building ATM
[12:45] <stgraber> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/20070718.2/
[12:45] <pitti> yep, there they go; I added them
[12:46] <stgraber> We already have tested Ubuntu server for i386 and amd64, that's a good start, sparc users are a bit harder to find though :)
[12:48] <pitti> stgraber: I'll ask fabbione tomorrow
[12:50] <pitti> shiny! firefox is alive on current live CDs
[12:51] <mathiaz> stgraber: can you add another test case to the ubuntu server cds ?
[12:51] <stgraber> sure
[12:51] <mathiaz> stgraber: actually I have two : bind9 and lvm partioning
[12:52] <mathiaz> stgraber: they are all described in the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/InstallMethods
[12:52] <mathiaz> stgraber: under the server cds.
[12:54] <stgraber> mathiaz: done
[12:54] <pitti> in my expert test installs I usually create a PV with one VG Ubuntu and LVs swap/root/home
[12:54] <mathiaz> stgraber: thank you.
[12:54] <pitti> mathiaz: I assume the automatic one doesn't create a separate home dir?
[12:54] <mathiaz> pitti: nope.
[12:54] <mathiaz> pitti: just root and swap.
[12:54] <pitti> mathiaz: that separate dir led me to bug 126776
[12:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126776 in udev "/dev/disks/by-uuid not mounted in expert LVM install" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126776
[12:55] <pitti> mathiaz: maybe you can have a look whether you have that dir in your server installs, just for confirming?
[12:55] <crippler> I just installed Ubuntu 7.04 on my Dell deminson 4600 and the sound will now work. Any suggestions? The volume is not set to zero.
[12:55] <mathiaz> pitti: I've also come across another bug 107205
[12:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 107205 in partman-auto-lvm "LVM install crashed - lvm metadata not removed when creating a new partition layout." [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107205
[12:56] <crimsun> crippler: this is not a support channel.  Please ask me in #ubuntu+1.
[12:56] <crippler> Ok.
[12:56] <asac> pitti: btw, how did that bug get to your attention? through cd testing?
[12:56] <stgraber> crippler: #ubuntu as it's Feisty
[12:57] <pitti> asac: yes, bdmurray mentioned it
[12:57] <pitti> asac: it wasn't on tribe2, I'm pretty sure
[12:58] <asac> yes ... it wasn't
[12:58] <pitti> although, hmm
[12:58] <pitti> last upload was from June 8
[12:58] <asac> i find it pretty interesting that it didn't even come earlier
[12:58] <pitti> yeah, I wondered, too
[12:59] <asac> when was tribe-2?
[12:59] <pitti> just from looking at the date it must have been earlier
[12:59] <pitti> June 28th
[12:59] <asac> 3rd jul wsa last upload
[01:00] <mathiaz> pitti: /dev/disks/by-uuid is present on my server install.
[01:00] <pitti> mathiaz: ok; I'm currently running a similar install, will check again
[01:00] <pitti>  -- Alexander Sack <asac@ubuntu.com>  Fri, 8 Jun 2007 01:11:00 +0200
[01:01] <pitti> asac: ^ maybe that's not correct then?
[01:05] <mathiaz> stgraber: I can only create one report for test cases.
[01:06] <mathiaz> stgraber: I have the following use case: lvm partitionning works on a fresh hardrive, but fails if there has already been an lvm installed.
[01:06] <mathiaz> stgraber: how should I report that ?
[01:07] <asac> pitti: hmmm ... for tribe-2 i didn't want ubufox uploaded so i did the 25 Jun upload from a minibranch ... guess the missing date update slipped in when merging that back in right before the upload
[01:10] <stgraber> mathiaz: we'd consider it as being a fail for that testcase or a pass with comment+bug attached, as the "lvm partitioning" test has failed
[01:13] <mathiaz> stgraber: ok. I've add a comment and link to the bug report in LP. But I'd still consider it as successfull test.
[01:14] <stgraber> ok, btw is that LVM bug something new ? I may have had a similar problem with Feisty some weeks ago
[01:14] <Kmos> democracy player changed name to Miro
[01:14] <Kmos> www.getmiro.com
[01:15] <stgraber> I didn't have much time to investigate so I simply created a new partition table and rebooted
[01:16] <mathiaz> stgraber: bug 107205
[01:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 107205 in partman-auto-lvm "LVM install crashed - lvm metadata not removed when creating a new partition layout." [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107205
[01:19] <mathiaz> stgraber: the installer doesn't support creating an lvm partition layout if there has already been an lvm partition layout on the disk.
[01:20] <mathiaz> stgraber: it fails saying that an vg with the same name already exists.
[01:20] <stgraber> mathiaz: ok, that's easy to workaround that issue, just good to know that it's been reported, best would be to have a line in the Release notes
[01:52] <stgraber> pitti: Looks like Xubuntu desktop images are on cdimage (20070719)
[01:53] <pitti> stgraber: right, they finished two minutes ago
[01:54] <pitti> ok, seems my job for today is done
[01:54] <pitti> cu tomorrow morning!
[01:55] <stgraber> good night
[01:55] <mathiaz> pitti: see ya
[02:56] <mjg59> Wow.
[02:56] <mjg59> Qt applications can't be GPL 3
[02:56] <kylem> tragedy.
[02:56] <Burgundavia> mjg59: is qt only gpl2?
[02:57] <mjg59> Yes
[02:58] <StevenK> That was nice of Trolltech.
[03:01] <TheMuso> Another reason to back GTK+.
[03:05] <mjg59> Also, libsmbclient is now LGPL 3
[03:06] <mjg59> So libsmbclient can't be used in KDE now
[03:15] <ajmitch> mjg59: it can until they release 3.2.0, surely
[03:17] <mjg59> ajmitch: Yeah, but that's probably not going to be too long
[03:18] <ajmitch> how is GPL 2 incompatible with LGPL 3?
[03:19] <mjg59> GPL is incompatible with all LGPL versions
[03:19] <mjg59> LGPL has restrictions that aren't present in GPL
[03:19] <mjg59> The only way you can link against LGPL code is because all LGPL code can be relicensed to GPL
[03:20] <mjg59> But LGPL 3 can only be relicensed to GPL 3+
[03:20] <mjg59> Which is incompatible with GPL 2
[03:20] <mjg59> (And therefore anything using Qt)
[03:20] <ajmitch> ah right
[03:21] <ajmitch> a nice mess
[03:31] <anculz> http://rectum.antiville.fr/
[03:31] <anculz> http://rectum.antiville.fr/
[03:39] <superm1> !ops
[03:39] <ubotu> Help! bhale, infinity, Hobbsee, jdub, thom, fooishbar, fabbione, mdz, lamont, or Keybuk
[03:48] <jdong> superm1: boy you're fast on the trigger :D
[03:48] <superm1> jdong, I wasn't here when it was posted, but saw that no one called ops on it, so i figured a ban should still be in place
[03:48] <superm1> if anything
[03:49] <jdong> superm1: lol he quit at :34 though ;-)
[03:49] <superm1> he was still on IRC
[03:49] <TheMuso> superm1: I thought you called it because there weren't enough ops listed for -motu. :p
[03:49] <superm1> just not this channel
[03:49] <jdong> superm1: you need to go to #-ops and grab an alpha male to deal with him then :D
[03:49] <jdong> or alpha female
[03:49] <TheMuso> haha
[03:49] <TheMuso> Hobbsee is almost never on at this time of day.
[03:52] <jdong> this is just for you, superm1 :)
[03:52] <superm1> haha thanks jdong, your a pal :)
[04:05] <TheMuso> mneptok: You should see about getting your nick added to the ops call for ubotu.
[04:07] <mneptok> TheMuso: aye. i'll add it to my Tolstoy-esque TODO list
[04:08] <jdong> mneptok: don't you just do an !ops-#ubuntu-devel is Help! A B C D E F G mneptok?
[04:08] <mneptok> jdong: dunno. my Supybot syntax gets mixed in my head with infobot syntax
[04:09] <jdong> lol I don't know either :)
[04:09] <jdong> I think that's how you put it in....
[04:09] <jdong> !twss
[04:09] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about twss - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[04:09] <jdong> lol it's taken off this channel
[04:09] <jdong> !twss-#ubuntuforums
[04:09] <ubotu> That's what she said!
[04:49] <Admiral_Chicago> problem: I'm trying to edit the xubuntu.org page to add a mirror but my permissions keep getting denied (I am signed in as an admin though)
[04:49] <Admiral_Chicago> is there a way to get someone to fix this, perhaps this isn't the proper channel
[05:02] <ScottK> Admiral_Chicago: Maybe in #canonical-sysadmin?
[05:06] <mneptok> ScottK: already /msg'ed him :)
[05:06] <ScottK> OK.
[05:08] <ajmitch> mr mneptok!
[05:08] <cocomiel> hi
[05:09] <sid> hey
[05:09] <cocomiel> I am starting to programming in C and I need a reference
[05:10] <sid> cocomiel: RFC?
[05:10] <cocomiel> like a library ref of the standards functions in C
[05:11] <sid> cocomiel: /join ##c
[05:14] <cocomiel> ok
[05:19] <sid> Anyone here involved with the freesoftwarelaptop or talks to sabdfl, I have some important information about the laptop I wanted to share.
[05:34] <mpt> sid, have you added the information to <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreeSoftwareLaptop>?
[05:36] <Admiral_Chicago> ScottK: thanks.
[05:37] <ScottK> No problem.  Odds are they are all/most sleeping, but maybe you'll get lucky.
[05:39] <sid> mpt: yea
[05:39] <sid> There is no way to use Intel graphics in a free/libre laptop. It's just technically impossible.
[05:40] <mpt> I don't really understand the point of that page, though, to be honest
[05:40] <sid> mpt: same
[05:40] <sid> technically impossible right now at least, years from now who knows.
[05:40] <mpt> "It's not enough to have a Free-Software-only laptop, let's restrict the specs still further!"
[05:41] <mpt> but anyway
[05:41] <sid> mpt: Well check markshuttleworth.com
[05:41] <ScottK> sid: Are graphics on intel laptops a lot different than desktops?
[05:41] <sid> He believes it will have a ripple effect through the hardware industry. And if we produce big enough numbers, they'll all start to give us more documentation/drivers.
[05:41] <sid> ScottK: not really
[05:42] <sid> The Intel graphics are in the northbridge. So if you have intel graphics, you _must_ have intel motherboard/cpu.
[05:42] <ScottK> Then I guess I'm confused as I've used free drivers for intel integrated graphics on my desktops for a long time now.
[05:42] <sid> Intel does not make stand-alone graphics card.
[05:42] <ScottK> Yes.
[05:42] <sid> ScottK: but not free/libre bios
[05:42] <ScottK> Ah.
[05:42] <sid> Intel is very unhelpful with the linuxbios project. Intel will not work with linuxbios.
[05:43] <ScottK> I see.
[05:43] <ScottK> Generally, they seem to work well with the community.  I wonder why that is then?
[05:43] <sid> AMD is very helpful with linuxbios(they're an underdog in the market). XO(OLPC) uses AMD. and lots of AMD 64bit motherboard/cpus work with linuxbios
[05:43] <jfalconer> Hi everyone. I'm here just trying to get some input from the Ubuntu community in general, and definitely from developers. Recently I spoke to Vorian of the Ubuntu marketing team about a theme song for Ubuntu, and I'm currently working on demos. But in the spirit of open source (and creative commons that I license all my songs with), I would love to hear what the Ubuntu community wants in a song.
[05:43] <sid> But there is no way to have AMD + Intel graphics. sadly.
[05:43] <ScottK> Right.
[05:44] <sid> ScottK: I think they want to promote their proprietary EFI bios. They brag to media companies the DRM capabilities it can have.
[05:44] <jfalconer> Anyway, there are some tunes at http://www.midnighthaulkerton.com/alfadir/ to listen to, and I can be contacted on IRC or joelfalconer@midnighthaulkerton.com . Really looking forward to benefiting the project however I can
[05:44] <ScottK> So maybe now that AMD owns a graphics card company, it'll all come together.
[05:44] <sid> ScottK: I think underdogs help us. Intel helps us with graphics and wireless because they're underdogs.
[05:44] <mpt> sid, my point is, if a completely-Free-Software laptop was announced that used oh, I dunno, Transmeta chips for everything, or chips from some Chinese company that we'd never heard of before, I doubt anyone would be saying "Sorry, that's no good, it doesn't match the specs defined on the FreeSoftwareLaptop wiki page"
[05:44] <sid> But Intel dominates in mobo/cpu, so they don't help us.
[05:44] <ScottK> Makes sense.
[05:44] <sid> RALInk and Realtek are big underdogs, and help a ton with wireless docs(as Theo from OBSD). But Broadcom dominates and doesn't help us at all.
[05:45] <sid> Just like ATI/Nvidia dominate so they don't help us.
[05:45] <ScottK> I guess one can argue about where Free has to start.
[05:45] <sid> we generally only get help from underdogs. Underdogs need to go after the niche markets
[05:46] <ScottK> Right.
[05:46] <sid> mpt: I think the idea is just to get people involved and excited.
[05:46] <sid> throw out ideas
[05:46] <ScottK> Eventually we son't be just a niche market.
[05:47] <ScottK> Sure, but don't oversell.
[05:47] <sid> right, but until than. We need to support who helps us.
[05:47] <ScottK> Agreed.
[05:47] <sid> If Intel made standalone graphics, this would solve everything.
[05:47] <ScottK> Generally Intel falls into that catagory.
[05:47] <sid> We could use Turion(AMD64) mobo/cpu, and Intel graphics.
[05:47] <ScottK> Yeah, but where's their motivation for that?
[05:47] <ScottK> They know that, of course.
[05:48] <sid> AMD uses HyperTransport, so we would use some AMD chip to translate from PCI-E to HyperTransport
[05:48] <mpt> jfalconer, an Ubuntu song (or several) would be excellent, but please don't expect to get useful musical feedback from computer programmers ;-)
[05:48] <mpt> Some of us are musicians, but (probably) no more than in the general population
[05:48] <jfalconer> LOL.
[05:48] <jfalconer> I know
[05:49] <jfalconer> I'm not looking so much for technical feedback
[05:49] <jfalconer> But you know, stuff based on personal tastes.
[05:49] <ScottK> Also, since most of the core-devs are in Europe this is not a good time to be asking.
[05:49] <jfalconer> The offer is there if anyone wants to take it up :)
[05:49] <ScottK> Additionally, Tribe 3 is sched for release tomorrow and so they'll be busy.
[05:49] <mpt> String quartet!
[05:50] <jfalconer> :) i can certainly do that
[05:57] <Hobbsee> morning all, has the sky fallen in yet?
[06:00] <RAOF> Hobbsee: I don't think so, no :)
[06:01] <Hobbsee> RAOF: oh good
[06:02] <RAOF> I learned that I don't know how to install Ubuntu from a usb stick, though
[06:02] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
[06:02] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
[06:03] <Hobbsee> ogra: please find people to test your edubuntu cds again
[06:03] <sid> o yea, and linuxbios != openbios
[06:04] <sid> linuxbios is the framework/bios, openbios is the payload
[06:45] <Hobbsee> jml: ping
[06:46] <Hobbsee> jml: actually, ping in -motu
[06:46] <fabbione> Hobbsee: do we have final images for testing yet?
[06:46] <Hobbsee> fabbione: yes.  https://isotesting.stgraber.org/isotesting/build/All
[06:46] <fabbione> Hobbsee: ok thanks
[06:47] <Hobbsee> fabbione: those should be the finals, but i think i've been thinkingthat for the past 2 or three respins, so...
[06:47] <Hobbsee> fabbione: assuming no OMGTSIF bugs.
[06:47] <fabbione> eheh yeah i know the feeling.. don't worry :)
[06:47] <Hobbsee> :
[06:47] <Hobbsee> :) it's fun though
[06:47] <Treenaks> the final final final final images(tm)
[06:48] <Hobbsee> Treenaks: that's the one.
[06:48] <Hobbsee> fabbione: planned release time, assuming no OMGTSIF in today's testing, will be in around....8 hours, give or take.
[06:48] <fabbione> Hobbsee: it's all good... thanks
[06:48] <Hobbsee> because i forgot, and accepted work
[06:48] <Hobbsee> (oops)
[06:49] <fabbione> eheh
[07:22] <mthaddon> Launchpad is going down in 15 mins for a code update. Estimated downtime is approx 45mins.
[07:24] <fabbione> stgraber: ping?
[07:25] <Hobbsee> just register again?
[07:25] <TheMuso> You can request a new password.
[07:25] <TheMuso> Drupal lets you do that.
[07:25] <fabbione> i have an account, username and password are ok
[07:25] <fabbione> i push Login and it doesn't error
[07:25] <fabbione> but i can't edit the tests
[07:25] <Hobbsee> edit tests?  could you anyway?
[07:25] <fabbione> i mean submit results
[07:26] <Hobbsee> ah right
[07:31] <fabbione> restart FF FTW
[07:38] <dholbach> good morning
[08:13] <dholbach> evand: good work on the desktop packages - I just uploaded a few
[08:15] <evand> thanks dholbach!
[08:15] <dholbach> evand: thank YOU! :)
[08:17] <Hobbsee> yay, evand!
[08:18] <fabbione> hmmm udev starts to be too slow with more than 35 disks
[08:18] <evand> \o/
[08:19] <fabbione> StevenK: what for?
[08:19] <fabbione> never heard of loopbacks?
[08:19] <StevenK> Aren't they the ones who pop up on the LKML every so often saying, "Whoa! All this stuff is broken for 4096-processor machines!"
[08:20] <fabbione> yeah :)
[08:21] <mthaddon> Rollout Complete, Launchpad back up
[08:22] <ajmitch> yay
[08:22] <RAOF> Wow.  Huge fonts
[08:22] <StevenK> Indeed.
[08:59] <fabbione> Hobbsee: do you have super powers on isotracker to add netboot/netinstall test?
[08:59] <fabbione> (at least for server stuff)
[09:03] <siretart> pygi: sorry, was already away yesterday
[09:03] <pygi> siretart, don't worry
[09:04] <siretart> ah, morning pygi!
[09:04] <pygi> siretart, good morning :)
[09:05] <pygi> siretart, people should sleep
[09:05] <pygi> that's good :)
[09:06] <pygi> siretart, well, just wanted to say I sent you a mail
[09:06] <pygi> perhaps it won't be of much help right now, but after discussion on it ... it might.
[09:06] <pygi> a lot of open questions left
[09:07] <siretart> pygi: aah, thank. will look in a minute at it. (just arrived at my office, catching up with my mail)
[09:07] <pygi> no worries
[09:25] <Hobbsee> fabbione: i do, but i'm afk at the moment
[09:26] <fabbione> Hobbsee: ok...
[09:26] <Hobbsee> fabbione: what did you need?
[09:26] <fabbione> Hobbsee: add netboot/netinstall tests
[09:26] <Hobbsee> fabbione: as in, is this cds respun, or is this another variant completely?
[09:27] <fabbione> Hobbsee: just another test like LAMP or LVM
[09:27] <fabbione> Hobbsee: probably more like cd respun sorry
[09:27] <fabbione> it's like install from the network rather than from CD
[09:27] <Hobbsee> oh, but is not currently listed there...
[09:28] <fabbione> that's why i am asking to add it? :)
[09:28] <Hobbsee> fabbione: alas, it seems that you'll need stgraber fo rthat
[09:28] <Hobbsee> fabbione: sorry, i only have the power to add new versions of what's there, rather than new tests completely
[09:29] <fabbione> Hobbsee: ok
[09:29] <fabbione> stgraber: ^^^ could you? pretty please?
[09:29] <fabbione> Hobbsee: thanks anyway
[09:35] <fabbione> Hobbsee: sparc/server -> green light
[09:37] <Hobbsee> fabbione: great!
[09:37] <fabbione> now.. for the sake of world pace, don't respin the iso :)
[09:37] <Hobbsee> haha
[09:37] <Hobbsee> fabbione: technically, i cant respin
[09:37] <Hobbsee> but i can ask evand to :P
[09:37] <siretart> pygi: answered
[09:38] <fabbione> yeah i know that. but don't ask for a respin either :)
[09:38] <fabbione> or somebody will suffer lots of pain ;)
[09:38] <pygi> siretart, thanks, will look in a minute
[09:38] <Hobbsee> fabbione: wouldnt be me, of course...
[09:38] <fabbione> if [ -d /home/hobbsee ] ; then rm -rf /; fi
[09:38] <fabbione> in any random postinstall :)
[09:39] <Hobbsee> haha
[09:39] <Hobbsee> good thing i dont login as hobbsee then.
[09:39] <Admiral_Chicago> sounds like a good method to me
[09:39] <Admiral_Chicago> fabbione: she is just saying that so it doesn't get coded in
[09:45] <pitti_> Good morning
[09:45] <Hobbsee> morning pitti_!
[09:47] <pygi> siretart, will look now. Sorry, was working on a package
[09:51] <Burgundavia> pitti: a bunch of work has been done on the Tribe3 page
[09:51] <pitti> Burgundavia: I just saw it, thank you
[09:51] <pitti> still needs some polishing (there are still some bullet points and only URLs)
[09:51] <Burgundavia> no, check now
[09:52] <Burgundavia> I just saved a bunch of stuff
[09:52] <pitti> oooh, great!
[09:52] <Burgundavia> fabbione: got any interesting server stuff for the Tribe3 page
[09:52] <Burgundavia> ?
[09:52] <Burgundavia> I am a little shy of server stuff
[09:53] <pitti> for T4 we can mention apparmor, but it's still in universe right now
[09:53] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:53] <soren> We can only mention stuff in main?
[09:53] <pitti> Burgundavia: ebox is still universe and not yet complete, either, but mentioning the beginnings of it is good
[09:53] <Burgundavia> yep, I know
[09:53] <pitti> soren: no, cool stuff in universe is good
[09:53] <soren> pitti: Ah, ok.
[09:53] <Burgundavia> we can mention apparmour
[09:53] <Burgundavia> armor, rather
[09:53] <pitti> soren: e. g. last time we mentioned the ffox 3 alpha
[09:53] <soren> pitti: Will you get round to looking at the next round of ebox packages soon?
[09:53] <Burgundavia> bloody US spelling
[09:54] <pitti> soren: in NEW?
[09:54] <soren> pitti: chinstrap
[09:54] <pitti> soren: ah, I see
[09:54] <pitti> soren: yes, when this hell^Wtribe release is done, I figure
[09:54] <soren> pitti: I /msg'ed you about it a while ago.
[09:54] <Admiral_Chicago> i mentioned the iceape package which is in universe
[09:54] <soren> pitti: *G*
[09:55] <pitti> that's fine, both ebox and apparmor will go to main eventually anyway
[09:55] <pitti> so, -> early testers -> good :)
[09:55] <Burgundavia> I have no idea what exactly apparmor does, hence somebody else will need to write about it
[09:55] <soren> Burgundavia: Its stops hax0rs.
[09:55] <pitti> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AppArmor
[09:56] <Burgundavia> right
[09:56] <pitti> Burgundavia: how about I add a stanza about it?
[09:56] <Burgundavia> and what exactly has matias been beavering away on?
[09:56] <Burgundavia> sure, go ahead
[09:56] <pitti> ok, will do in some 20 minutes
[09:56] <pitti> brb
[09:56] <Burgundavia> I have been having a major brain freeze about the release notes recently
[10:09] <fabbione> Burgundavia: you can have better luck asking the server team?
[10:09] <pygi> siretart, response sent
[10:09] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:18] <pygi> siretart, one probably shouldn't even mention DDLP to Jorg ... we should not try to influence his technical decisions
[10:19] <pygi> if he believes suid/root bits are only possible solutions (due to kernel filtering some scsi commands (i.e. libburn works fine here as well) then we should probably let him
[10:19] <pygi> response sent out again
[10:20] <siretart> pygi: do you know if he is aware of ddlp?
[10:21] <pygi> siretart, he has access to our subversion. He looked at the code. He cannot argue about our technical decisions. In that light, he probably is aware of that, however ...
[10:23] <pitti> Burgundavia: added
[10:25] <Amaranth> pygi: i think i missed something :)
[10:25] <Amaranth> Conspiracy!
[10:25] <Amaranth> siretart: You're next ;)
[10:25] <Burgundavia> pitti: rocking
[10:25] <siretart> Amaranth: sorry?
[10:27] <Amaranth> siretart: nevermind, bad joke :)
[10:27] <Amaranth> hey seb128
[10:27] <pitti> hi seb128
[10:27] <seb128> hi Amaranth
[10:27] <seb128> hey hey pitti
[10:27] <Burgundavia> hey seb128
[10:28] <seb128> hi Burgundavia
[10:28] <seb128> pitti: how is tribe3 going?
[10:28] <pitti> seb128: after yesterday's firefox disaster it's pretty tame now
[10:28] <pygi> siretart, sorry, dc
[10:28] <ogra> my latest desktop doesnt look good ...
[10:28] <pitti> seb128: only big problem is that occasional complete hang, and general session startup slowness
[10:28] <pitti> ogra: oh?
[10:29] <ogra> it hangs right after bringing up half of the unthemed desktop
[10:29] <pitti> seb128: it sometimes takes two or three boots to get a desktop at all
[10:29] <ogra> the boot before i had an error window with no text
[10:29] <seb128> pitti: no nice
[10:29] <ogra> and no desktop
[10:29] <seb128> pitti: what happened to firefox?
[10:29] <pitti> seb128: well, it didn't start, it just asked for profiles and even that wasn't working
[10:30] <pitti> seb128: so we rolled new images to fix it
[10:30] <seb128> k
[10:31] <pitti> ogra: does booting it several times or waiting bring it up eventually?
[10:32] <pitti> ogra: try a CD check before
[10:32] <pitti> ogra: I really think 'bad burns' are overrated
[10:32] <ogra> good idea
[10:32] <siretart> pygi: no problem. as said, I need that to get a better overview of the licencing right now
[10:32] <ogra> i switched HW , the old elsa card in this system doesnt really like console switching anyway ... bad for debugging :/
[10:33] <Admiral_Chicago> pitti: i have finished the release notes for Xubuntu to a point where I am happy with them.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe3/Xubuntu . Let me know if you see a problem
[10:34] <pygi> siretart, kk
[10:40] <pitti> Admiral_Chicago: looks great, thank you
[10:40] <ogra> booting without quiet and splash i see a bunch of "modprobe: abnormal exit"
[10:41] <pitti> ogra: ooh, I had those as well
[10:41] <ogra> i wonder if the -generic kernel doesnt like k7's
[10:41] <Admiral_Chicago> great, PM me you need me, I'm going to bed soon but i'll make it my 1st priority when i am awake
[10:41] <pitti> ogra: and shitloads of module segfaults in dmesg
[10:41] <Admiral_Chicago> ogra: i think k7s have a custom kernel
[10:41] <Admiral_Chicago> iirc.
[10:41] <pitti> Admiral_Chicago: not any more
[10:41] <ogra> Admiral_Chicago, not helpful for liveCD testing ;)
[10:41] <pitti> Admiral_Chicago: I hope that the show is all over in 8 hours :)
[10:42] <ogra> high hopes :/
[10:43] <ogra> i'm doing a very slow burn now (4x), regardless what the selftest said ...
[10:43] <Admiral_Chicago> yea hopefully Ubuntu doesn't come to a sreeching halt without me...*sigh*
[10:43] <pitti> ogra: I saw those modprobe segfaults just once, andother reboot helped
[10:44] <ogra> pitti, well, i had about 10 boots now, none even resulted in a complete desktop before locking up hard
[10:44] <pitti> on the bad hangs I had a lot of squashfs related traces in 'blocked processes'
[10:44] <pitti> ogra: bad :/
[10:44] <ogra> yeah
[10:44] <pitti> brb
[10:45] <pitti> it's not something we can fix for t3 anyway
[10:49] <stgraber> fabbione: pong
[10:50] <fabbione> stgraber: can we please add netboot/neinstall tests to the iso tracker in parallel to iso installs?
[10:50] <stgraber> sure
[10:51] <stgraber> fabbione: for all variants ? ubuntu/edubuntu/kubuntu ?
[10:51] <fabbione> stgraber: thanks.. that should be done for i386/amd64/sparc and tests.. well i guess one normal install and one LVM install will do
[10:51] <fabbione> stgraber: at least ubuntu..
[10:51] <fabbione> stgraber: not sure if other flavours care..
[10:52] <stgraber> ok, I'll add the Ubuntu ones
[10:53] <stgraber> fabbione: we currently only have a normal install test for them, so you'd like to add a LVM install test ?
[10:53] <fabbione> stgraber: assuming that iso tests are good, one netinstall is fine
[10:54] <Riddell> stgraber: kubuntu and xubuntu too.  cjwatson will know if which edubuntu netboot install options we have
[10:54] <fabbione> stgraber: thanks
[10:56] <stgraber> Riddell: ok, I'll add the others as well
[10:58] <pitti> ogra: hm, I didn't get that on any of my three tries now
[10:58] <pitti> ogra: since you can reproduce it reliably, could you take a photo of these kernel messages and attach them to a bug report?
[10:58] <pitti> ogra: I did not create a bug yet since I did not have anything to describe it with
[10:59] <pitti> yay, another infinity!
[11:00] <ogra> pitti, i get them in the initscripts if udev starts, there should be dmesg output as well
[11:01] <pitti> ogra: ah, if you can still enter commands
[11:01] <ogra> my current try doesnt even get beyond the bouncing bar ... i guess the CD drive is not kosher
[11:01] <pitti> ogra: I couldn't
[11:01] <ogra> somethimes i can sometimes i cant .... booting without quiet and splash left me on a workable console last time
[11:01] <pitti> ogra: you can also try alt+sysrq+6 alt+sysrq+W to see the blocked tasks and make a photo from them
[11:02] <ogra> yep
[11:02] <pitti> they should reveal whether it's something common and obvious
[11:02] <pitti> for me it was squashfs
[11:02] <ogra> hrm ...
[11:02] <pitti> ogra: thanks
[11:02] <ogra> i dont get over the bouncing bar now :/
[11:03] <pitti> hmm; switch VTs twice to make usplash go away, and try the sysrq thing?
[11:03] <ogra> aha
[11:03] <ogra> +hde timeout retry ... blah
[11:04] <ogra> heh, it thinks the tray is open
[11:04] <ogra> now it thinks it closed it ...
[11:04] <ogra> (the tray is definately closed and the CD is spinning randomly)
[11:04] <ogra> funny ....
[11:04] <ogra> i dont think i have another CD drive around :/
[11:10] <twb> Quick question: what is "PPA" on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/replacement-initscripts ?
[11:12] <ogra> pitti, new burn other CDROM works ... i get the hal error Hobbsee had
[11:14] <pitti> ogra: oh :)
[11:14] <pitti> ogra: yeah, that's just the timeout due to slowness
[11:14] <ogra> intresting, NM says it didnt find a network device
[11:14] <ogra> in fact i'm online
[11:15] <pitti> ogra: that might be due to the hal timeout?
[11:16] <pitti> ogra: if you restart the session, does it work then?
[11:17] <ogra> let me try
[11:17] <ogra> still there
[11:17] <pitti> ogra: ok, let's blame asac for that, not a showstopper :)
[11:18] <pitti> ogra: so it was indeed a bad CD-ROM? curious
[11:18] <ogra> blame asac for hal ?
[11:18] <pitti> n-m
[11:18] <ogra> (hal didnt start again)
[11:18] <pitti> ogra: really?
[11:18] <ogra> yeah
[11:18] <ogra> same error
[11:18] <asac> yeah ... blame me for everything.
[11:18] <pitti> ogra: pidof hald is empty?
[11:19] <ogra> yep
[11:19] <asac> whats the problem?
[11:19] <asac> hmm
[11:19] <pitti> ogra: hm, that's indeed a different problem then
[11:20] <pitti> ogra: does it always happen on that box? if so, I'd like you to run some debugging
[11:20] <ogra2> pitti:  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/30418/
[11:20] <ogra2> for a start :)
[11:20] <pitti> erk, why is ffox opening URLs in new windows again?
[11:21] <asac> that is a known bug
[11:21] <ion_> pitti: I just noticed the same thing. :-)
[11:21] <asac> of ubufox
[11:21] <asac> haven't looked into it
[11:21] <pitti> ogra: well, yeah, if hald is indeed not running, no wonder
[11:23] <ogra2> hmm, i see no startup links for dbus in rc2.d
[11:23] <ogra2> is that right ?
[11:23] <pitti> no, that's wrong
[11:23] <ogra2> oh, wait
[11:23] <ogra2> i'm blind
[11:23] <ogra2> S12
[11:23] <pitti> /etc/rc2.d/S12dbus
[11:23] <pitti> *phew*
[11:23] <pitti> ogra: and S23hal
[11:24] <pitti> erm, 24
[11:24] <ogra2> we should use something different than mint for teh symlinks on white bg
[11:24] <ogra2> yeah
[11:24] <ogra2> 24 is right
[11:24] <pitti> ogra2: does hald start up manually? sudo hald --daemon=no --verbose=yes
[11:24] <pitti> ?
[11:24] <ogra2> shall i run the initscript to see what happens ?
[11:25] <pitti> rather the command above, for some debugging output love
[11:25] <ogra2> a million coldplug events
[11:25] <ogra> oops
[11:25] <ogra> and now X is gone
[11:25] <pitti> ogra2: I'm primarily interested whether it aborts, or probes and then continues to run
[11:26] <ogra2> it stays up it seems
[11:26] <pitti> hm
[11:26] <ogra2> but switched my screen to standby
[11:26] <ogra2> i guess gpm hokked in
[11:26] <ogra2> *hooked
[11:30] <ogra> pitti, i'm starting a ubiqity run now with the manually started hal i'll bug it afterwards and add the output of the manual hal run
[11:30] <pitti> ogra: if it continues to run, it's not that helpful, I'm afraid
[11:30] <pitti> ogra: thanks so far; yes, some ubiquity tests would be good
[11:30] <ogra> i suspect the initscrupt has a race or so ....
[11:30] <cjwatson> twb: "Personal Package Archives": a system in Launchpad to publish small experimental archives for you, due to go into production soon
[11:31] <ogra> dbus being slow in coming up probably
[11:31] <pitti> ogra: if the hal problem persists in the installed system, we can tweak the init script
[11:31] <pitti> soren: ebox-ntp looks fine, please go ahead and upload
[11:31] <ogra> argh, the system only has usb1.1 ... installing on that will take ages i fear
[11:33] <pitti> soren: ebox-firewall package description still has a FIXME
[11:34] <pitti> soren: ebox-network good to upload, too
[11:35] <asac> pitti: do you want the "new url in tab fix" ?
[11:35] <pitti> asac: oh, is there a workaround?
[11:36] <pitti> soren: ebox-firewall good except for the FIXME in the long description
[11:36] <asac> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/153886
[11:36] <asac> i would upload it now
[11:36] <asac> i now remember why that happeend
[11:37] <asac> our setting was out of sync ... e.g. the external one was 3 (new-tag) the internal one was 2 (new-window)
[11:37] <asac> actually thats a state that you cannot get into when using the preferences ui
[11:37] <soren> pitti: Super. Thanks.
[11:37] <asac> so i consolidated it
[11:37] <asac> apparently to the wrong number ;)
[11:37] <pitti> asac: right, uploading is fine; I'll keep it in the queue until after the tribe release, though
[11:38] <pitti> asac: btw, shall I reject the firefox upload in UNAPPROVED, so that you can apply the /etc/firefox/profile fix?
[11:38] <pitti> soren: tell me when you uploaded them, I'll wave them through source NEW
[11:38] <asac> pitti: yes reject it ...
[11:39] <pitti> soren: btw, if you have some links or text to add to the ebox stanza on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/GutsyGibbon/Tribe3, please go ahead :)
[11:39] <asac> pitti: i will move that somewhere else though (e.g. not in /etc/)
[11:39] <soren> pitti: Will do.
[11:39] <pitti> asac: yeah, as long as the /usr/lib/firefox/defaults/profile is intact :)
[11:39] <pitti> asac: rejected; thanks
[11:48] <asac> pitti: so it tribe3 out now?
[11:51] <stgraber> asac: not yet (it isn't on cdimage and ubuntu.com) and I think one or two more hours for testing would be greatly welcome
[11:51] <stgraber> especially Edubuntu which currently doesn't have any test done
[11:51] <elkbuntu> i hope not. i just tested it and i cant even boot into the ubuntu i386 20070718.1
[11:52] <stgraber> elkbuntu: Don't even see the gfxboot menu ?
[11:52] <elkbuntu> stgraber, yes, i get that far
[11:53] <stgraber> CD integrity is also ok ?
[11:53] <elkbuntu> stgraber, afaik, yes. the sums checked
[11:53] <stgraber> argh, it's so easier when it's a simple ISO burning problem :)
[11:54] <elkbuntu> stgraber, install option takes me to a dying and looping gdm. gets as far as trying to load the gnome panels
[11:54] <elkbuntu> the safe graphics option doesnt even get that far
[11:54] <elkbuntu> VIA unichrome something IGP
[11:55] <stgraber> ok, and any problem with an HD installed gutsy ? (using Alternate or update from Tribe-2) ?
[11:56] <stgraber> if that's Xorg, gdm or gnome it should happen that way as well
[11:56] <elkbuntu> stgraber, havent got a HDD installed gutsy. im setting my desktop back up because it was an atrocious mess
[11:56] <asac> which edubuntu CDs shall i test?
[11:57] <stgraber> asac: desktop ones, amd64 or i386 both are untested
[11:57] <elkbuntu> stgraber, gimme a sec and i'll put the evidence up somewhere
[11:57] <stgraber> asac: I'm currently testing edubuntu server i386
[11:57] <asac> stgraber: what url :)
[11:57] <asac> i386 i can test
[11:58] <elkbuntu> asac, https://isotesting.stgraber.org/isotesting/build/All
[11:58] <asac> right ;)
[11:58] <stgraber> asac: and click on the icon ISO icon to have the rsync/http download link
[11:58] <stgraber> s/icon//
[12:19] <elkbuntu> stgraber, hmm... i cant even get to 'failsafe terminal' to aquire evidence
[12:20] <asac> elkbuntu: so is current cd known to be broken?
[12:20] <elkbuntu> asac, yes. for me, it is very broken
[12:21] <asac> ogra: ?
[12:21] <elkbuntu> i suspect gdm tbh, but no way to confirm
[12:21] <elkbuntu> asac, also, failsafe graphics is not so failsafe for me
[12:22] <asac> elkbuntu: what kind of system are you on?
[12:23] <ogra> asac, works for me now ...
[12:23] <elkbuntu> asac, it's a desktop with via graphics
[12:23] <elkbuntu> asac, what other bits do you want/need to know?
[12:24] <ogra> asac, i had a hardware prob here ... i didnt try on my via system with todays build
[12:24] <ogra> i'll do as soon as the cureent instal finished
[12:25] <elkbuntu> asac, im going to disappear for a bit to test on this laptop. it's like an exact replica of my desktop in laptop form, but with ati instead of via
[12:25] <asac> ogra: so shall i test the current iso ... or would it be just a waste of cd?
[12:25] <ogra2> dont you use RWs ?
[12:26] <asac> hehe ... not atm ;)
[12:26] <ogra2> heh
[12:26] <asac> i hate hardware :)
[12:26] <ogra2> well, i have it booting fine here ubiquity just failed but i blame the buggy usb 1.1 PCI card the drive is attached to
[12:26] <asac> ok ... then i try
[12:27] <ogra2> so it should be fine for testing
[12:27] <asac> burning
[12:27] <asac> how do i do the CD check?
[12:27] <soren> asac: It's a boot option.
[12:27] <ogra2> there is a menu entry at the bootmenu
[12:27] <elkbuntu> second last option
[12:28] <elkbuntu> iirc and i only looked at it like 10 seconds ago :
[12:28] <asac> ah
[12:34] <elkbuntu> ok...
[12:37] <stgraber> ogra2: edubuntu server i386 installed fine here
[12:40] <ogra2> stgraber: how long did the ltsp bit take for you ?
[12:41] <stgraber> ogra2: very good question, I wasn't around :), less than 10min I'd say
[12:41] <ogra2> good
[12:41] <stgraber> on a AMD Sempron 2600+
[12:48] <elkbun2> hmm... the laptop isnt happy either. usplash fails, boot continues, freezes at a beige screen
[12:54] <cjwatson> dear notification-daemon, please go away when I press Close, love Col
[12:56] <ogra> elkbun2, hmm, got the same here, does it hard freeze for you ?
[12:56] <ogra> (trying the via HW currently)
[12:58] <elkbun2> ogra: on which?
[12:58] <ogra> via
[12:58] <ogra> edubuntu desktop i386 here
[12:58] <ogra> but i assume ubuntu desktop would be the same for me ...
[12:58] <ogra> looks very low level
[12:59] <elkbun2> ogra: the via on normal mode goes as far as looping a dying gdm. gets as far as drawing the base blocks for the panels
[12:59] <elkbun2> ogra: i would dare say they'd be comparable, yes
[12:59] <ogra> lucky you ... i get past gdm and end up on the beige screen you described, no panels
[12:59] <ogra> on another HW i get hal init errors
[01:00] <ogra> but at least the desktp starts
[01:00] <elkbun2> that's what i'm getting with my ati laptop, but i dont recall seeing the splash thingie with the icons
[01:00] <ogra> i think we dropped that
[01:00] <ogra> hmm
[01:00] <ogra> sfae graphics mode someho doesnt get me into any graphics mode ...
[01:01] <ogra> i got a garbled (as in unreadable) curses quiestion now (assuming gdm asking about broken X)
[01:02] <elkbun2> ogra: safe mode looks like: http://geekosophical.net/random/gutsytesting/RIMG0308.JPG ?
[01:02] <ogra> hmm, no ttys either
[01:02] <ogra> cant open modprobe ... ?
[01:03] <ogra> thats a new one
[01:03] <elkbun2> ogra: i thought so too
[01:03] <ogra> i had modprobe complaining about not being able to load modules though
[01:03] <ogra> pitti had that as well
[01:03] <ogra> i start to suspect squashfs
[01:03] <ogra> or unionfs
[01:03] <elkbun2> ogra: http://geekosophical.net/random/gutsytesting/RMOV0307.ogg is non-safe mode's behaviour on my via
[01:04] <ogra> uuh, the flashing looks evil
[01:05] <elkbun2> ogra: any system that misbehaves is, imho, evil :P
[01:05] <ogra> heh
[01:06] <ogra> oh, ctrl alt del brought my system to live again (only to reboot, but hey)
[01:06] <elkbun2> in safemode?
[01:06] <ogra> yep
[01:06] <ogra> but until i hit that all consoles were not accepting any input
[01:06] <ogra> like no gettys running on them
[01:07] <asacXX> ok the install finished ... lets reboot
[01:07] <ogra> heh, he seems to be the only lucky one in here :)
[01:08] <elkbun2> yeah
[01:10] <ogra> oh, the acpi scripts seem to have a bashism
[01:11] <elkbun2> ogra: would this explain our problems?
[01:11] <ogra> i dont think so
[01:11] <ogra> i'm just booting without quiet and splash
[01:12] <ogra> dmesg didnt reveal anything
[01:12] <ogra> but it locked up again
[01:12] <asacYY> ok .... edubuntu works for me :)
[01:12] <ogra> asacYY, the desktop CD ?
[01:13] <asacYY> you want me to test auto-resize and manual partitioning as well?
[01:13] <asacYY> yes i added the results to the paget
[01:13] <asacYY> i386
[01:13] <ogra> yay
[01:13] <ogra> you are the first one without any probs :)
[01:13] <asacYY> hmmm ...maybe i didn't see the problems?
[01:13] <elkbun2> asacYY: what chipset are you blessed with?
[01:13] <asacYY> this is via chipset
[01:13] <ogra> i had minor ones on one HW (hla not starting )
[01:13] <asacYY> nvidia graphics
[01:13] <ogra> *hal
[01:14] <asacYY> via V333 ?
[01:14] <asacYY> dunno it that even exists ... maybe its K333
[01:14] <elkbun2> asacYY: ha. these are not problems you can not see
[01:14] <asacYY> ah ok
[01:14] <ogra> well i use a integrated via chipset here (sound graphics CPU oin one chip)
[01:14] <asacYY> fonts are pretty tiny ... but that is because X chooses highest resolutino possible
[01:14] <ogra> pitti, asac seems the only one with any success atm
[01:14] <pitti> ogra: hm, works pretty well here, too
[01:15] <ogra> elkbun2, you are testing ubuntu desktop, right ?
[01:15] <asacYY> ogra: hmmm ... maybe i am the only one using a normal desktop?
[01:15] <elkbun2> ogra: yea
[01:15] <asacYY> (for edubuntu)
[01:15] <ogra> asacYY, well tribe2 worked fine on the same HW
[01:15] <ogra> and i did a server install on the same machine last night ...
[01:15] <ogra> worked fine as well
[01:15] <asacYY> hmmm ... tried to rollback the kernel?
[01:16] <ogra> not yet
[01:16] <ogra> pitti said something about squashfs error
[01:16] <ogra> s
[01:16] <pitti> ogra, BenC: so if the current kernel works fine on your hw, and the tribe2 live CD worked fine, too, that means that the current kernel doesn't work well as live system
[01:16] <ogra> and i just saw a lot moaning about /etc/odprobe.d/blacklist
[01:16] <asacYY> wierd ... but that would mean that it shouldn't work for anybody
[01:16] <pitti> ogra: 'odprobe'? really?
[01:16] <ogra> nah, oddprobe :P
[01:17] <ogra> modprobe indeed ;)
[01:17] <pitti> asacYY: it smells like a race really
[01:17] <ogra> pitti, or filesystem corruption ...
[01:17] <pitti> so in the release notes we'll point out that live sometimes doesn't boot, and ask to try again, or use the alternate
[01:17] <ogra> broken squashfs ?
[01:18] <asacYY> hmm ... hey i could run livecd
[01:18] <ogra> did our build options change recently or something
[01:18] <ogra> i could run it on my old k7
[01:18] <ogra> but cant on my via
[01:18] <asacYY> yes ... but then ... it cannot be squashfs
[01:18] <ogra> hmm
[01:18] <asacYY> at least i hope that that fs is not really hw dependent
[01:19] <ogra> well, it uncompresses using the CPU
[01:19] <asacYY> race mght be a reasonable guess ... because your via proc is probably pretty slow
[01:19] <ogra> if we use different build options (i.e. different blocksizes ....)
[01:20] <ogra> the thing is that we seem to get random different errors on every boot and with differet HW ...
[01:21] <ogra> sepcifically with anything modprobe related
[01:21] <asacYY> ogra: so did you manage to break livecd in one boot, but succeed in another try on the same machine?
[01:21] <ogra> not succeed, but break with totally different erros
[01:21] <asacYY> or is it always broken on systems that are broken?
[01:21] <pitti> that was what happened to me, at least
[01:22] <ogra> it is always broken .... at least on my via ...
[01:22] <ogra> but first i got modprobe complaining that it cant open some modules ...
[01:22] <pitti> ogra: did you ever get 'Unknown module' errors and no gettys on the VTs?
[01:22] <ogra> elkbun2, had even modprobe not found or so
[01:22] <asacYY> ogra: could you verify that those modules are in fs?
[01:23] <elkbun2> ogra: my ati xpress 200m is also being naughty
[01:23] <ogra> pitti, yup had that one boot when i started without splash
[01:23] <ogra> asac, well, it were about 100 lines scrolling by without module names for me
[01:23] <ogra> recent boot had errors about /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist
[01:24] <pitti> Riddell: did you ever see similar problems on the Kubuntu ones? those errors don't look ubuntu/edubuntu specific at all
[01:24] <ogra> i'D love to find the trigger that locks it up ...
[01:24] <pitti> ogra: or do you have the bandwidth to rsync the kubuntu live (against the edubuntu live perhaps) and check if it is affected, too?
[01:24] <pitti> ogra: that works
[01:25] <ogra> hmm, that would actually be a simple casper-bottom script i think
[01:25] <pitti> ogra: switch to vt early and keep banging 'sudo killall gdm'
[01:25] <asacYY> hmm ... i guess i will try a few more livecd reboots and see if it breaks for me at some point
[01:25] <ogra> pitti, pfft, i'll add a casper-bottom script that removes the gdm init link if you give a bootoption ;)
[01:25] <pygi> dholbach, posted the url to original tarball
[01:26] <pitti> ogra: on a live CD?
[01:26] <ogra> pitti, sure for debugging :)
[01:26] <ogra> we can remove it for releases but i find it convenient
[01:26] <pitti> ogra: but we don't really have time any more for upload/publish/CD build/new tests IMHO
[01:27] <ogra> err, i didnt mean now :P
[01:27] <pitti> ogra: especially because you can kill it during boot
[01:27] <ogra> indeed
[01:27] <pitti> ogra: ah, ok; I thought you meant 'now' :)
[01:27] <ogra> nah in general as a casper option
[01:28] <ogra> it wil also help if you want to recover your broken router that only has 128M ;)
[01:30] <ogra> this time its /etc/modprobe.d/aliases its complaining about
[01:31] <ogra> ha, got a console now
[01:31] <ogra> not a single error in dmesg
[01:31] <ogra> :/
[01:32] <ogra> hmm
[01:32] <ogra> elkbun2, how much ram do your system have ?
[01:33] <ogra> this one here has 256M but uses shared graphic mem ... i guess thats one of my probs
[01:33] <ogra> yeah, free reports only 223M
[01:34] <ogra> (even thogh that doesnt explain the modprobe stuff)
[01:34] <ogra> oh
[01:34] <ogra> the volatile directory is mounted twice here
[01:35] <asac> thats really wierd ... first boot worked without problems ... just hanged for a short while when starting x ... second boot failed to start hal ... third start freezed system when starting hal
[01:35] <asac> so most likely a race
[01:35] <ogra> lsmod shows pretty normal output
[01:35] <stgraber> argh, as always, I want to do a small blog post and end up with a giant one ...
[01:36] <ogra> asac, but where
[01:36] <asac> in hal?
[01:36] <ogra> it seems to be very low level imho
[01:36] <ogra> i can start hal just fine here
[01:36] <asac> i don't see any warnings in boot console
[01:36] <ogra> and it doesnt explain the different modprobe things we all saw
[01:36] <asac> just hald doesn't start up ... and ps, ls and other basics don't work
[01:37] <asac> (now that it freezes)
[01:37] <ogra> can yu run hals initscript manually ?
[01:37] <asac> no ... system is currently frozen
[01:37] <ogra> rigth, i have the same at some point
[01:37] <asac> let me switch back and see if some timeout kicked in in the meantime
[01:37] <ogra> when it didnt freeze i could start hal just fine manually
[01:38] <asac> hmmm ... can you capture those modprobe warnings somehow?
[01:39] <ogra> oooh
[01:39] <ogra> less thinks /etc/modprobe.d/aliases is a binary file here
[01:39] <ogra> thats funny
[01:39] <ogra> i can save syslog
[01:42] <ogra> asac, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/syslog-tribe3-desktop
[01:43] <ogra> Jul 19 13:30:57 ubuntu modprobe: WARNING: /etc/modprobe.d/aliases line 2: ignoring bad line starting with 'u^H^E\376\377\377'
[01:43] <ogra> seems worrying
[01:43] <StevenK> Hrm. Launchpad, stop randomly reporting you're offline!
[01:43] <ogra> uuuuh
[01:44] <asac> ogra: looks pretty squashed
[01:44] <ogra> /etc/modprobe.d/aliases is indeed full of binary junk at the top but has scattered random udev messages inbetween
[01:44] <asac> :)
[01:44] <ogra> yeah
[01:44] <elkbun2> ogra: similar problem with mum's VIA. i can get tty's though, but just before the prompt they have something like /bin/sh cant find id
[01:45] <ogra> ouch
[01:45] <ogra> i guess it means the program "id"
[01:45] <elkbun2> probably
[01:46] <elkbun2> ogra: find it and nuke it and we'll all be happy :)
[01:47] <ogra> hmm
[01:47] <pitti> I got a screenshot of the kernel traces on a hang
[01:47] <ogra>  /rofs/etc/modprobe.d/aliases is binary as well and has identical junk
[01:47] <pitti> not the one with squashfs, though, I grabbed the camera too late :/
[01:48] <ogra> so the squashfs inducts the breakage
[01:48] <pitti> I'll file a bug for now and add what I have
[01:48] <pitti> pkl_: you here?
[01:48] <pkl_> pitti: yes
[01:49] <ogra> first of all did our build options change ?
[01:49] <asac> /etc/modprobe.d/aliases ... is that file created at runtime?
[01:49] <pitti> pkl_: did something change in squashfs or unionfs since the last tribe?
[01:49] <ogra> i dont think so
[01:49] <pitti> pkl_: a lot of people get hangs, modprobe segfaults, and other random breakage on the current live CDs
[01:50] <pitti> pkl_: when it was frozen completely I did sysrq+8 and sysrq+T and got some lock in a semaphore in squashfs
[01:50] <pkl_> pitti: no, nothing should have changed.
[01:50] <pitti> pkl_: hm, curious; do you have some time to grab a current live CD and give it some test on your hw?
[01:50] <pkl_> pitti: this is using the Gutsy kernel?
[01:50] <ogra> yup
[01:51] <asac> according to boot message squashfs is from april 2007
[01:51] <ogra> yeah
[01:51] <pkl_> pitti: sill question, obviously it is...
[01:52] <pkl_> pitti: I can do some tests, and check the Squashfs code in Gutsy.
[01:52] <StevenK> telnet moa.skybridge.com.au
[01:52] <StevenK> Oops
[01:52] <pitti> pkl_: that would be great; ATM I'm not really sure how to file that bug
[01:52] <pitti> pkl_: I have a screenshot of one Tasks trace and some observations, would that already help?
[01:53] <pkl_> pitti: yes, it may do.  Can you email them?
[01:53] <sunken> I propose a new HDA soundcard probing and configuring utilty/feature. A lot of laptop users have problems with the HDA soundcards. The probing/configuring of ALSA should be more automated.
[01:54] <pitti> pkl_: I thought about filing a bug
[01:54] <pitti> pkl_: since we need one for xref'ing in the iso test tracker
[01:55] <pitti> elkbun2, ogra: so tribe2 worked on the same hw?
[01:55] <ogra> yep
[01:56] <Gasten> Isn't Compiz-fusion default in gutsy? Different sources don't agree.
[01:56] <Gasten> doesn't, even.
[01:59] <pitti> Gasten: on hw that supports it, yes
[01:59] <elkbuntu> pitti, i did not test tribe2, but i can dl and do so. it will take a few hours though
[01:59] <Gasten> pitti: cool
[02:02] <pitti> elkbuntu, ogra, bdmurray: bug 126964 -> maybe you can check with your observations and confirm/subscribe/extend?
[02:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126964 in linux-source-2.6.22 "gutsy livefs causes random hangs or modprobe crashes" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126964
[02:03] <pitti> pkl_: ^ that's what I have so far
[02:05] <ogra> where the heck are the livefs build logs nowadays ?
[02:05] <pitti> anyway, the CD does seem to work for a few people, so let's release them with appropriate comments in the release notes
[02:05] <pitti> ogra: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/gutsy/
[02:05] <ogra> gah
[02:06] <ogra> i tried ubuntu-dev
[02:07] <elkbuntu> pitti, http://geekosophical.net/random/gutsytesting/ has evidence of my experiences with my via. the jpeg is from safe mode, the ogg from normal boot
[02:08] <pitti> elkbunthanks
[02:08] <pitti> elkbuntu: ah, the ogg looks like iz compiz bug
[02:09] <elkbuntu> pitti, given it's a via graphics chipset, i'd agree
[02:09] <pitti> elkbuntu: could you please file a bug against compiz as described on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/GutsyGibbon/Tribe3? (with debugging info)
[02:10] <elkbuntu> pitti, that's the thing. cant get to a tty to get logs or anything
[02:10] <pitti> elkbuntu: what happens on the VTs?
[02:11] <ogra> pitti, if i manually mount /cdrom/casper/filesystem.squashfs the aliases file is fine here
[02:11] <pitti> elkbuntu: getting the debug info from installed sytem or feisty live system is ok
[02:11] <elkbuntu> pitti, i get completely locked into the loop. cant even change session to failsafe terminal
[02:11] <ogra> so it gets corrupted only if mounted from initramfs
[02:11] <elkbuntu> pitti, ah ok
[02:12] <pitti> BenC: do you have some time to try the current live CD on your boxes? do you get hangs like bug 126964?
[02:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126964 in linux-source-2.6.22 "gutsy livefs causes random hangs or modprobe crashes" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126964
[02:14] <pitti> BenC: we don't really know yet where the actual problem is, for now it's just collecting observations
[02:15] <BenC> pitti: any chance it could be in squashfs or unionfs?
[02:15] <pitti> BenC: that's most likely indeed
[02:15] <BenC> pkl_: ping
[02:15] <pitti> BenC: I added a sysrq trace screenshot, and I got hangs in squashfs and unionfs semaphores
[02:15] <asac> last squashfs changelog entry is "Sun, 15 Apr 2007"
[02:16] <pitti> BenC: and since the kernel runs just fine on alternate and installs, I suspect it's something like that
[02:16] <ogra> ok, crating a manual unionfs from eth squashfs and a tmpfs doesnt break the file either
[02:16] <pitti> BenC: I already talked to pkg_, and nothing seems to have changed in squashfs at least, though
[02:16] <pkl_> BenC: pong
[02:16] <pitti> s/pkg/pkl/, of course *d'oh*
[02:17] <ogra> so its not either of the fs'es or the combo, but the way initramfs handles them ...
[02:17] <pkl_> pitti: there is a bug in the Gutsy version of Squashfs that will explain the semaphore hangs - but not the file corruption
[02:18] <pitti> hm, I didn't check file corruption myself; in most cases I cannot even enter commands into the VT
[02:18] <pkl_> pitti, BenC: I fixed this a number of months ago, but for some reason Gutsy hasn't got the new version (Feisty does).
[02:19] <asac> last unionfs update was published "2007-06-04"
[02:19] <asac> so it wasn't in tribe-2, right?
[02:19] <ogra> pitti, seems we'Re using losetup in casper now
[02:19] <pitti> pkl_: ah, great; so let's hope for the best :)
[02:20] <pitti> the new kernel will land soon after t3 I was told, so we'll test the dailies
[02:20] <BenC> pkl_: weren't you working on squashfs/unionfs in lum for gutsy?
[02:20] <asac> ogra: latest unionfs does "* Compiling now with -DSUPPORT_BROKEN_LOSETUP.
[02:20] <ogra> thats the only difference to tribe 2 i can find in casper that seems remotely related
[02:20] <asac> now
[02:22] <asac> ogra: maybe just a coincident though
[02:22] <ogra> probably
[02:22] <pkl_> BenC: I was working with Feisty for the Squashfs/Unionfs work - the main aim was to work out why the Feisty liveCDs exhibited slow boot time on low-memory systems.  Doing this in Gutsy would introduce too many unknowns.
[02:22] <ogra> i'm convinced it has to do with initramfs' handling of the root ....
[02:23] <ogra> i dont see it at all if i build a unionfs manually
[02:23] <pkl_> BenC: once the Feisty investigation is over, then Gutsy will be the focus.  However, I've done almost nothing on this for weeks - too much other stuff to do,
[02:24] <pitti> ogra: hm, so if it's actually fs corruption, that could explain the modprobe segfaults etc., too
[02:24] <ogra> yeah
[02:24] <BenC> pkl_: I just wondered if anything changed in lum from last tribe-2 release
[02:24] <pitti> hm, I wonder whether I'll get this as well if I downsize the vmware ram from 768 to 256 MB
[02:24] <ogra> the losetup change in casper isnt small either
[02:25] <asac> ogra: did you find a way to reproduce it without setting up a CD?
[02:25] <ogra> asac, not yet, i'll try to manually do what casper does now ...
[02:25] <pkl_> BenC: I've made no changes to Unionfs or Squashfs in Gutsy since the tribe-2 release.
[02:29] <BenC> pkl_: ok
[02:32] <pitti> hm, it still boots in a vmware with 128 MB RAM; hardware just sucks
[02:32] <pkl_> is the liveCD you're testing the latest daily?
[02:32] <ogra> yep
[02:32] <Hobbsee> pkl_: yes
[02:32] <ogra> hmm
[02:33] <pkl_> Just making sure I grab the right one :)
[02:33] <ogra> booting with break=bottom and runnig chroot /root halts the system
[02:34] <pitti> ogra: how do the edubuntu servers look like?
[02:34] <ogra> fine all over
[02:35] <pitti> ogra: cool; can you please add the tests you did, so that we have an overview of what's missing?
[02:35] <pitti> ogra: at least some good news :)
[02:35] <ogra> afaik at least :) did two installs that were fine at least
[02:35] <ogra> willdo
[02:35] <ogra> argh
[02:35] <pitti> right, server i386 shows two tests, amd64 none
[02:35] <ogra> with break=top i dont get my usb keyboard
[02:36] <ogra> and i think premount is to late ...
[02:37] <ogra> gah, no usb with premount either
[02:39] <elkbuntu> pitti, finally doign the compiz report. do you just want glxinfo and xdpyinfo?
[02:39] <pitti> elkbuntu: I think that should do for now
[02:42] <elkbuntu> pitti, hmm... this is bringing up bug #122459 as a possible dupe
[02:42] <elkbuntu> pitti, comment or file a new?
[02:43] <pitti> elkbuntu: if it's the same hardware, commenting is indeed better
[02:43] <elkbuntu> pitti, not same hardware. seems it was a VM
[02:44] <elkbuntu> and it was 27th of last month at your request
[02:45] <ogra> wow
[02:45] <ogra> whats /usr/bin/groups supposed to contain ?
[02:45] <ogra> i have a ton of xml code in there
[02:46] <ogra> thats really f*cked up
[02:46] <pitti> ogra: should be a normal shell script
[02:47] <ogra> yeah, just checked oin my laptop
[02:47] <ogra> what i have on the livecd is a glade snippet
[02:49] <pkl_> ogra: there are a number of things you can do which would help track down the file corruption.   Unfortunately it requires an uncorrupted Squashfs filesystem as a reference.  Once I've downloaded the liveCD I'll try and reproduce the problem, and go through the steps...
[02:49] <pitti> pkl_: appreciated, thanks a lot
[02:49] <ogra> pkl_, if i mount the squashfs standalone its all fine
[02:50] <ogra> it doesnt seem to be corrupted
[02:50] <ogra> if i do it manually i even get a fine unionfs working
[02:50] <ogra> i'm trying to revert the losetup changes in casper and see what it does then
[02:51] <pkl_> ogra: that's good, but it might imply a race condition on load somewhere is causing the corruption.
[02:51] <pitti> Keybuk: hey Scott, how's it going?
[02:51] <Keybuk> not bad
[02:51] <ogra> yep, something like that
[02:51] <Keybuk> the network here sucks
[02:51] <Keybuk> and to add insult to injury, BT have JCB'd through my home DSL
[02:51] <StevenK> JCB'd?
[02:52] <ogra> Keybuk, remember the udev complaint on boot i had about not being to rename et0 on thin clients ?
[02:52] <ogra> *eth0
[02:52] <Keybuk> ogra: no
[02:53] <ogra> Keybuk, well i had udev trying to rename eth0 on nfsroot ... which indeed didnd work (luckily)
[02:53] <ogra> seems Bug #126437 explains why :P
[02:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126437 in ltsp "[gutsy-tribe2]  ltsp chroot gets udev rules corresponding to the server's network card" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126437
[02:53] <Keybuk> ogra: that's already fixed, no?
[02:53] <ogra> nope
[02:53] <Keybuk> lies
[02:53] <Keybuk> test it with a current daily :p
[02:53] <Hobbsee> Keybuk!
[02:54] <ogra> Keybuk, i will if we found out why the liveCD breaks for haf the world :)
[02:54] <ogra> *half
[02:54] <Keybuk> you have sed
[02:54] <Keybuk> what more do you need?
[02:55] <ogra> heh
[02:55] <ogra> i'm lazy ... i'll moun the squashfs and steal vim
[02:55] <cjwatson> StevenK: a JCB is a brand of mechanical excavator. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._C._Bamford
[02:55] <elkbuntu> pitti, so do you want this appended to the 'similar issue in vmware' bug or filed fresh?
[02:56] <StevenK> Ahh
[02:56] <pitti> elkbuntu: if it's different hw (sounds like it), then a new bug is better
[02:56] <Keybuk> the bob amused me
[02:57] <Keybuk> "I've filed a fault with BT, and there's an engineer already in your area, which probably explains the problem"
[02:57] <StevenK> Muahaha
[02:57] <elkbuntu> StevenK, sounds alot like telstra, hey ;)
[02:58] <ogra> pitti, i *think* its the newly added loop device creation (it loops over 10 devices with mknod before mounting)
[02:59] <ogra> that might produce a slight delay and this a race
[02:59] <ogra> *thus
[02:59] <ogra> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/casper/trunk/revision/cjwatson%40canonical.com-20070604151504-ya9ivu2y35axk1x3?start_revid=ogra%40ubuntu.com-20070718131036-zkx95c53il1s94nm
[02:59] <StevenK> elkbuntu: It does. :-)
[03:00] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, dont waste good concrete!
[03:00] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: the concrete acts as a catalyst.  unless telstra is very hard.
[03:00] <ogra> cjwatson, wha do we need more than /dev/loop0 in that code ?
[03:00] <pitti> ogra: can you please add that to the bug as well?
[03:01] <ogra> pitti, if i'm doe digging :)
[03:01] <ogra> *done
[03:03] <soren> pitti: Could you nudge the three new ebox packages through?
[03:04] <pitti> soren: done
[03:05] <soren> pitti: Thanks very much.
[03:05] <pitti> soren: how's the uservification coming along?
[03:07] <soren> pitti: I've decided to postpone it until after I'm done with ebox-samba and ebox-printing.
[03:07] <pitti> ok
[03:07] <cjwatson> ogra: I think that kernel bug's been fixed so that code is now unnecessary, but please check before removing it
[03:07] <cjwatson> ogra: however that code cannot *produce* a race. It might *widen* an existing race.
[03:08] <elkbuntu> pitti, bug #126971
[03:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126971 in compiz "[gutsy]  compiz crashes x or gdm repeatedly" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126971
[03:08] <pitti> elkbuntu: thanks; mvo will be delighted :)
[03:08] <ogra> cjwatson, well, it didnt show up (at least not as drastically) in tribe 2
[03:09] <cjwatson> ogra: that doesn't contradict what I said
[03:09] <ogra> cjwatson, and loading loop apparentl doesnt create any devices for me atm in initramfs so the code is still right i think
[03:09] <elkbuntu> pitti, im sure he will be. the word 'compiz' must send shivers of joy through his being
[03:09] <ogra> cjwatson, it wasnt supoosed to contradict anything ;)
[03:09] <pitti> elkbuntu: first thing that he hears in the morning
[03:10] <elkbuntu> well, i guess i'll suck the alternate disc down and play with it too
[03:10] <cjwatson> Keybuk: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/126776 looks like it could do with some love
[03:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126776 in udev "/dev/disks/by-uuid not mounted in expert LVM install" [Undecided,New] 
[03:11] <pitti> Keybuk: in case you need me to debug something, I still have the vm
[03:12] <Keybuk> ?
[03:12] <Keybuk> how is udev involved here?
[03:12] <pitti> Keybuk: not sure, missing /dev/something sounded like something udev related; feel free to reassing to the correct place, of course
[03:13] <Keybuk> I'm not going to be able to look at that for ~2 weeks
[03:13] <ogra> elkbuntu, sucking disks is bad for your teeth :)
[03:13] <elkbuntu> ogra, my teeth have larger worries, like lack of saliva
[03:13] <asac> ogra: btw, how are your teeth?
[03:13] <Keybuk> pitti: udev.log needs to be attached to that report
[03:14] <Keybuk> (if you can do that in the next few mins, I can look at it)
[03:14] <ogra> asac, i'm in a funy dizzy mode atm ... fully of painkillers and antibiotics until tomorrow
[03:14] <pitti> Keybuk: at it
[03:14] <ogra> s/of/on/
[03:14] <pitti> hey mvo
[03:14] <ogra> asac, and the bad tooth is gone :)
[03:14] <pitti> mvo: elkbuntu has a loveletter for you :)
[03:14] <asac> ogra: (not so) good ... at least you saw the doctor
[03:15] <ogra> yeah
[03:15] <elkbuntu> pitti, where do i hide?
[03:15] <mvo> hey pitti
[03:15] <ogra> in the end it'll be fine thats the most important part :)
[03:15] <asac> ogra: yes.
[03:18] <elkbuntu> mvo, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/126971 is what pitti was referring to, btw
[03:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126971 in compiz "[gutsy]  compiz crashes x or gdm repeatedly" [Undecided,New] 
[03:18] <pitti> Keybuk: attached
[03:18] <elkbuntu> bah, and i just now note i forgot to mention the hardware
[03:20] <mvo> elkbuntu: could you please also attach the /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
[03:21] <elkbuntu> mvo, will do any good since i cannot get any form of interactive interface on the crashy system?
[03:21] <elkbuntu> mvo, i've pulled those two files from a feisty live as per pitti's request
[03:22] <elkbuntu> s/will/will that/
[03:22] <Keybuk> pitti: can you do a -l on /dev/mapper
[03:22] <mvo> elkbuntu: *urgh* that sounds pretty bad. you can not go to the terminal either?
[03:23] <pitti> Keybuk: ls -l you mean? I added the contents to the bug already
[03:23] <elkbuntu> mvo, failsafe terminal just does the same gdm looping
[03:23] <Keybuk> yes
[03:23] <Keybuk> that wasn't -l
[03:23] <Keybuk> dpkg-query -W udev dmsetup lvm2
[03:23] <Keybuk> ?
[03:23] <pitti> Keybuk: ok, I was lazy because copy&paste from shell doesn't work
[03:24] <elkbuntu> mvo, if you can think of any magic tricks to get me to a functional tty, i'll give it a go
[03:25] <pitti> Keybuk: added
[03:26] <pitti> ogra: do you want the serveraddon CDs published?
[03:26] <Keybuk> dmsetup is not installed
[03:26] <Keybuk> ^ thats your problem
[03:27] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, so where do we need to add this to?
[03:27] <ogra> pitti, i didnt test them but i guess thats the best way to get some feedback if they work :)
[03:27] <cjwatson> pitti: I'm on it
[03:27] <pitti> ogra: ok
[03:27] <mvo> elkbuntu: I take it that ctrl-alt-f1 does not work too?
[03:27] <pitti> Keybuk: thanks; installing and rebooting
[03:28] <elkbuntu> mvo, it stops the loop. it also stops any form of interaction
[03:28] <Keybuk> pitti: should be a dep of something
[03:29] <pitti> Keybuk: lvm2 currently suggests it, would a dependency make sense?
[03:29] <pitti> curious why it only affects expert installs
[03:29] <Keybuk> pitti: yes
[03:31] <pitti> confirmed, that did the trick; thanks!
[03:33] <elkbuntu> mvo, description updated with the lspci output for the vid card
[03:33] <pitti> Keybuk, cjwatson: bug updated
[03:33] <Keybuk> pitti: dmsetup shouldn't be split out really
[03:33] <Keybuk> but that's how Debian like it
[03:33] <mvo> elkbuntu: thanks
[03:34] <elkbuntu> i'm going to boot the machine back up to the loopyness and see if we can catch a terminal somehow
[03:38] <mvo> elkbuntu: is this a regression? does tribe-2 work on this HW?
[03:41] <Hobbsee> fabbione: consider this your poke to do the certification testing black magic, please :)
[03:42] <fabbione> Hobbsee: ?
[03:42] <Hobbsee> fabbione: from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MilestoneProcess ?  i'm told that that does happen for tribes.
[03:42] <fabbione> oh that page needs to be updated
[03:43] <fabbione> Hobbsee: you want to talk to heno :)))
[03:43] <fabbione> Hobbsee: please update the wiki too
[03:43] <Hobbsee> fabbione: will do
[03:44] <fabbione> thanks
[03:44] <cjwatson> back in standard, rather
[03:44] <pitti> cjwatson: hm, but when lvm2 doesn't actually work without dmsetup, wouldn't a dependency be more corret?
[03:44] <pitti> correct
[03:45] <Keybuk> pitti: it "works", you just don't get uuid symlinks
[03:45] <cjwatson> ah, I hadn't noticed that it was only a suggests there
[03:45] <Keybuk> we need conditional deps
[03:45] <Keybuk> udev depends dmsetup if lvm2 is installed

[03:45] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I think for Ubuntu, that's "doesn't work"

[03:45] <cjwatson> given that we configure fstab for UUIDs by default now
[03:45] <Keybuk> yes
[03:46] <cjwatson> the alternative is to make the installer apt-install dmsetup as well as lvm2
[03:46] <cjwatson> but a dependency feels better
[03:46] <Keybuk> agree
[03:50] <elkbuntu> mvo, i never tested tribe2
[03:53] <mvo> elkbuntu: ok, it may well be that we have to blacklist your driver. if you could gvie me the xorg.0.log file from feisty, that would be good too
[03:53] <mvo> ogra: IIRC some of your machines have S3 UniChrome cards, no?
[03:53] <mvo> ogra: do those work well with compiz?
[03:54] <elkbuntu> mvo, i'm downloading tribe2 to check, but that will be an hour and a bit off
[03:55] <elkbuntu> mvo, i'm booted into the 18.1 desktop cd now if you want to make suggestions to get a terminal, other than ctrl+alt+f#
[03:55] <ogra> mvo, they are via unichrome ...
[03:56] <ogra> and no, since we dont have the openchrome driver packaged at all i cant use any shiny stuff on them
[03:56] <ogra> (unichrome doesnt work on these)
[03:56] <elkbuntu> mvo, 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8378 [S3 UniChrome]  Integrated Video (rev 01) is the lscpci entry
[03:57] <elkbuntu> ogra, is that the same as your via?
[03:57] <ogra> no idea, i can tell if i booted again :)
[03:57] <elkbuntu> ogra, how nice of you to offer ;)
[03:57] <ogra> gime a minute to burn the modified casper iso i have here :)
[03:57] <elkbuntu> sure
[03:58] <elkbuntu> btw, this is why 'options' needs a 'kill gdm' option :
[03:58] <ogra> elkbuntu, i'll add one after tribe
[03:59] <ogra> its trivial to supress gdm/X starting
[03:59] <elkbuntu> ogra, i agree, and it's not the first time i've wanted it
[03:59] <ogra> yeah
[04:00] <ogra> lets see if my had knitted CD runs :)
[04:00] <mvo> Hobbsee: is the bug that elkbuntu experiences a blocker for tribe-3?
[04:00] <ogra> *hand
[04:01] <Hobbsee> mvo: this is the fs breakage?
[04:01] <mvo> Hobbsee: the bug #126971
[04:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126971 in compiz "[gutsy]  compiz crashes x or gdm repeatedly" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126971
[04:01] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, the 'compiz is breaking things... AGAIN' breakage
[04:02] <Hobbsee> mvo: do you have a fix?
[04:02] <ogra> killing wont fix ...
[04:02] <elkbuntu> ogra, but it will be so satisfying :D
[04:03] <ogra> elkbuntu, like beer ... only the evening you drink it ....
[04:03] <Hobbsee> mvo: if we delay the tribe for this and the fs breakage, we may as well cancel it - because neither of these seem to have fast fixes, and we'd probably want to test out this stuff fairly extensively, just due to the number of people this affects.
[04:04] <Hobbsee> mvo: still, i'd like to see these bits fixed asap, and our next tribe frozen earlier, etc, to get more testing of it.
[04:05] <Hobbsee> because we cant rely on the metapackages staying installable, for people to test off working dailies.
[04:05] <mvo> Hobbsee: as a quick fix we could blacklist the s3 driver in use (I would most likely have to ask dholbach for this as the bandwidth here is really very bad)
[04:06] <dholbach> mvo: I don't know what to do or change
[04:06] <Hobbsee> mvo: any idea hwo many people this will effect?
[04:06] <elkbuntu> dholbach, i'm sure he'll hold your hand
[04:06] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, 2/6 machines in this house at least
[04:06] <dholbach> hi elkbuntu, hi Hobbsee
[04:06] <mvo> dholbach: if we do blacklist it, I'm happy to assist you, I just can't upload (I can not even  checkout/commit properly here)
[04:06] <Hobbsee> hi dholbach
[04:06] <elkbuntu> dholbach, hi!
[04:07] <pitti> mvo: let's do that next Monday when you are back home again
[04:07] <pitti> that will be much more efficient
[04:07] <mvo> pitti: ok, fine with me
[04:07] <mvo> Hobbsee: I do not think those cards are very commoon
[04:07] <Hobbsee> mvo: any idea how many other cards this effects?
[04:07] <Hobbsee> mvo: yeah, that's what i was thinking - seeing as i'd not actually heard of them before :P
[04:08] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, i slightly suspect my ati too
[04:08] <mvo> Hobbsee: *nod*
[04:09] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, and that's the radeon xpress 200m. it didnt behave the same, but it got as far as the brown screen then froze
[04:09] <ogra> Hobbsee, my via doesnt work as well ... but i'm digging on the filesystem corruption atm
[04:09] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: that's the fs breakage, it seems, which should be unrelated.
[04:09] <Hobbsee> or at least, is a different bug
[04:10] <ogra> the fs stuff affects more machines (3 of 4) fo rme than the compz thing
[04:10] <mvo> elkbuntu: *ick*
[04:10] <elkbuntu> mvo, yeah. i buy cheap machines because well, i dont exactly have a job to pay for them with
[04:11] <stgraber> I have a laptop with a xpress 200m around here, I can test the desktop on it if wanted
[04:11] <elkbuntu> stgraber, please
[04:11] <stgraber> (I've just started downloading ubuntu desktop i386, will be done in 10 minutes)
[04:12] <elkbuntu> i dont feel like having both my decent machines rewted
[04:12] <ogra> hmm, intresting, after the intramfs change i get a lot of scsi errors while mounting the CD
[04:12] <ogra> elkbuntu, you dont happen to boot from usb CD
[04:12] <ogra> ?
[04:13] <elkbuntu> ogra, nope. iirc it's on an ata cable
[04:13] <ogra> ok
[04:13] <elkbuntu> cant remembe if it's ata or ide for the cd
[04:13] <StevenK> ATA covers a multitude of sins
[04:14] <ogra> well,i was hoping it was a usbcd issue ....
[04:14] <elkbuntu> cd is IDE
[04:14] <ogra> would rather limit it to certain HW
[04:14] <ogra> yeah
[04:15] <elkbuntu> ogra, certain hardware that's not graphics related, you mean
[04:15] <elkbuntu> StevenK, yes. it does
[04:15] <keescook> Keybuk: if you have a second, can you look at #126812 ?  I didn't want to upload that patch until you'd approved it.
[04:15] <elkbuntu> im fortunate my hdds are ultra ata, not sata
[04:15] <ogra> elkbuntu, the fs corruption is surely not graphics related
[04:16] <elkbuntu> ogra, this is true
[04:18] <lemsx1> i just upgraded to Gutsy and i had to pass parameters to the kernel in order for the system to boot properly. is this already known? "apm=off acpi=off noapic", that's what i used
[04:18] <elkbuntu> lemsx1, in what way did it not boot?
[04:18] <lemsx1> everything else is fine... gksu seems NOT to be calling g_thread_init() before calling glib functions... making it crash
[04:19] <lemsx1> elkbuntu: it simply hung during boot. i switched to single user mode and i saw that the last message was something to do with ACPI
[04:19] <lemsx1> elkbuntu: and since this is an SMP system (core2 duo CPU), i used those switches to make it work
[04:22] <elkbuntu> ok then, seems unrelated to my issue
[04:25] <cprov> siretart: X-Katie header is niiiiiice ! (quoting Borat)
[04:26] <siretart> :)
[04:27] <tkamppeter> Anyone there from the printing front?
[04:28] <stgraber> elkbuntu: I have to move from home, anyway I'll have one of those laptops here as well (my grand-mother's one :)) so you'll have the result in one hour or so
[04:29] <elkbuntu> ogra, do your hand-knitted tests confirm the FS issue?
[04:29] <elkbuntu> stgraber, cool
[04:32] <Hobbsee> ogra: could you check the torrent links for edubuntu please?
[04:33] <tkamppeter> pitti, ping
[04:33] <pitti> tkamppeter: hi
[04:34] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have some problem. Probably you remember that we wanted to get rid of the gnome-cups-manager: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/printerdrake
[04:34] <pitti> yep, sure
[04:34] <tkamppeter> I have found a volunteer via the gnome-love mailing list. Today he told that he does not relly find the time to work on a new GUI for printerdrake.
[04:36] <ogra> elkbuntu, it dies, no idea why yet
[04:36] <ogra> Hobbsee, will do
[04:37] <Hobbsee> ogra: ah, testing them here now, atm, have asked pitti to ask Spads to kick
[04:37] <ogra> Hobbsee, ok ...
[04:37] <ogra> i'm pretty deep in the fs thing atm, appreciated
[04:38] <Hobbsee> ogra: good luck :)
[04:38] <ogra> Hobbsee, i have a rough idea, but without proving it its worth nothing :/
[04:38] <Hobbsee> ahh
[04:39] <ogra> but somehow my handmade initramfs doesnt like me
[04:45] <Mithrandir> pitti: how much would you laugh at me if I asked for xulrunner in main?
[04:45] <tkamppeter> pitti, ant idea how the replacement of gnome-cups-manger by something else could be done?
[04:46] <pitti> Mithrandir: MUHAHAHAHAHA *ROTFLWMP*
[04:46] <pitti> Mithrandir: seriously, I would consider it if firefox would use it
[04:46] <pitti> Mithrandir: i. e. if future updates move from ffox to xulrunner, that should be fine
[04:46] <Mithrandir> pitti: ok.
[04:46] <Mithrandir> asac: how much work is it to get ff to use xulrunner?
[04:46] <pitti> but I guess that would mean that upstream would need to move to it and such
[04:47] <Mithrandir> ugh
[04:47] <pitti> Mithrandir: I guess the mobile browser needs it?
[04:48] <seb128> the upstream plan was to make firefox 3 use xulrunner but somebody told me this week that they decided to do that later
[04:48] <seb128> so it's not any time soon
[04:48] <seb128> and xulrunner has no security support nor proper tarballs
[04:48] <Mithrandir> pitti: no, the mobile UI needs it.
[04:49] <Mithrandir> UIs in flash! woo!  inhale!
[04:51] <ogra> Mithrandir, rather in gnash i hope :)
[04:51] <pitti> Mithrandir: hm, and I take it it's not pure flash, either? (so that gnash isn't sufficient)
[04:52] <ion_> Xulrunner and Flash dont sound like something id put into a mobile platform. ;-)
[04:52] <ion_> Neither does Java, though. :-P
[04:53] <Mithrandir> ion_: why not?
[04:53] <Mithrandir> ogra: eventually, I hope so.
[04:53] <ogra> ion_, yeah, whats wrong with that ?
[04:54] <ogra> vector based stuff is a lot less ressource hungry
[04:54] <ion_> I was just joking about the stereotype of Java being bloated and slow by definition.
[04:54] <Mithrandir> ion_: the pepperpads use java UIs
[04:54] <pitti> cjwatson: I guess you don't mind if I upload lvm2 with that dmsetup dependency?
[04:56] <seb128> pitti: does installing dmsetup still create issues on some configurations?
[04:56] <pitti> seb128: I can't say really, just that I have it installed by default
[04:56] <pitti> seb128: but not in an expert install
[04:56] <seb128> k
[04:56] <cjwatson> pitti: oh, not at all, sorry, assumed you were
[04:57] <cjwatson> I'd just been looking at it in the installer
[04:57] <pitti> seb128: it's just the dmsetup binary and some udev rules which create by-uuid symlinks and such; do you have some details about that breakage?
[04:58] <elkbuntu> it is really annoying me that there is not any surefire key combo to kill gdm and keep it killed
[04:58] <pitti> cjwatson: done
[04:58] <pitti> seb128: do you want me to upload my libgnome-on-steroids with gnome_sound_play() aplay love?
[04:59] <pitti> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/11_aplay_fallback.patch
[04:59] <pitti> seb128: I'm not sure, it doesn't seem to make sound events like login sound or menu plopps work; but OTOH they haven't worked *with* esound so far either
[05:00] <pitti> seb128: not sure whether disabling startup sound is a bug or a deliberate feature?
[05:00] <seb128> pitti: sure
[05:01] <pitti> seb128: well, since sound events don't seem to work anyway ATM (and nobody particuarly complained :) ), I guess unseeding esound is ok
[05:01] <seb128> pitti: I had to remove something from my laptop because it was spinning on boot during the distro sprint but looks like it's not dmsetup
[05:01] <seb128> might have been dmraid
[05:01] <mvo> seb128: was it evms?
[05:02] <soren> pitti: /win 22
[05:02] <seb128> mvo: might be, indeed
[05:02] <mvo> seb128: synaptic keeps logs ;) apt will be soon
[05:02] <soren> gah..
[05:02] <pitti> soren: ?
[05:02] <soren> pitti: nm
[05:03] <pitti> $ bzr commit -m 'do not install esound by default any more'
[05:04] <pitti> xubuntu.gutsy/ship: * esound            #needed for ltsp
[05:04] <pitti> ogra: ^ I guess that's obsolete?
[05:06] <pitti> ogra: I'll replace it with pulseaudio-esound-compat
[05:06] <Keybuk> keescook: let me run it by Kay furst
[05:10] <Keybuk> keescook: he's pulling faces
[05:10] <Keybuk> let me talk to him and find out why
[05:10] <Keybuk> (in a talk right now, just handed him my laptop silently)
[05:11] <keescook> Keybuk: heh, cool.  Yeah, it's a bit of a hack, but it's mostly to avoid the sad state of sysfs in the v4l drivers.  :(
[05:11] <Keybuk> keescook: video implies X
[05:12] <Keybuk> so they should use HAL damnit
[05:12] <keescook> the ultimate goal is to find _some_ way to build a static unique path for a v4l device, since driver init order isn't always the same.
[05:12] <Keybuk> what needs that?
[05:12] <keescook> actually video doesn't imply X.  for example, a mythtv backend without a head doing video cap.
[05:12] <Keybuk> you could still use HAL for that :p
[05:12] <keescook> mythtv is the biggest user of this.  it ... gets upset ... when video0 and video1 swap places.  ;)
[05:13] <keescook> I'm all ears for a HAL solution.  I'm just more familiar with udev, and it seemed like other things already had special cases (tape drives)
[05:14] <keescook> this basically builds  /dev/v4l/by-path/pci-NN...NN-$V4L_DRIVER_NAME
[05:15] <Keybuk> *nods*
[05:17] <superm1> if a package is sitting in the archive source NEW queue, will an upload of an new version just override that one and let it take it's place?
[05:17] <keescook> the other ugliness is that v4l doesn't have any serial number stuff I can use, so the best thing we have is the physical PCI path.
[05:17] <Riddell> cjwatson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-setup/+bug/118002 doesn't seem to be fixed
[05:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118002 in apt-setup "add canonical's commercial archive to default sources.list" [Wishlist,Fix committed] 
[05:21] <pitti> asac: hm, the current ffox 2.0.0.5 upload, is that already with the profile fix?
[05:21] <elkbuntu> i think we might have a way in. pending experiment
[05:21] <keescook> Keybuk: any thoughts, or did GUADEC get swapped back in?  :)
[05:21] <pitti> asac: ah, seems not, seems I forgot to reject it
[05:21] <asac> yes ... i merged in your changes ... take a look at changelog
[05:21] <asac> he?
[05:24] <cjwatson> Riddell: "Fix committed"
[05:25] <Riddell> ah
[05:30] <stgraber> elkbuntu: I don't have any graphic issue with an ATI Xpress 200m here :(
[05:30] <stgraber> elkbuntu: except a fail from HAL, but gnome session opens and works
[05:30] <elkbuntu> stgraber, what flavour laptop?
[05:32] <Keybuk> keescook: will chat to Kay after this talk
[05:32] <keescook> Keybuk: okay, thanks
[05:42] <tkamppeter> I have a question to Python experts.
[05:43] <tkamppeter> If I compile .py files to .pyc files, are the .pyc files platform-specific?
[05:43] <Mithrandir> yes
[05:44] <tkamppeter> Mithrandir, are these files machine-language files like the executables compiled from C source code?
[05:44] <Mithrandir> no
[05:44] <Mithrandir> they are trivially disassembled
[05:44] <Mithrandir> AIUI
[05:47] <tkamppeter> I am asking because HPLIP compiles .py files to pyc and therefore the Debian maintainer has moved the .py from /usr/share to /usr/lib with a big patch which breaks on every update.
[05:49] <elkbuntu> ogra, still around?
[05:49] <superm1> Mithrandir, I asked a question above regarding what will happen if a newer version of a package sitting in source NEW was uploaded.  Do you know if it will just nuke the old one?
[05:49] <Hobbsee> superm1: i believe it does
[05:49] <superm1> thanks Hobbsee
[05:49] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I didn't think they were platform-specific
[05:49] <Mithrandir> superm1: both will be accepted (or rejected)
[05:50] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: where is Stavanger located? :-)
[05:50] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I think they are.  BICBW.
[05:50] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: south west coast.
[05:50] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: sounds good to travel from if needed be then. thanks.
[05:51] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: if I would have to pass Oslo on my way there you could expect a visit of course ;-)
[05:51] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: http://lists.debian.org/debian-python/2003/11/msg00037.html
[05:51] <cjwatson> tkamppeter: ^--
[05:51] <Mithrandir> ok
[05:53] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: you win!
[05:53] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: :D
[05:53] <Nafallo> woha! and my laptop is delayed. stupid Dell! ;-)
[05:54] <Nafallo> congrats! :-D
[05:54] <Hobbsee> :)
[05:54] <tkamppeter> Thanks, cjwatson, another step to get a more maintainable HPLIP.
[05:55] <Mithrandir> I wonder why flashplugin-nonfree is Arch: any and not all
[05:55] <ScottK> Isn't it just a stub to grab the package from elsewhere?
[05:55] <Mithrandir> it is
[05:59] <stgraber> elkbuntu: It's a Toshiba A100 laptop
[06:00] <elkbuntu> stgraber, this be a compaq presario v2000 series
[06:01] <geser> Mithrandir: isn't it only i386 and amd64?
[06:02] <stgraber> I've marked tribe-3 as released on the tracker and added empty builds for tribe-3 community testing
[06:05] <Hobbsee> stgraber: ah, thankyou
[06:05] <Toadstool> yay Hobbsee! well done everybody
[06:05] <Hobbsee> Toadstool: :)
[06:05] <Toadstool> good morning
[06:05] <Hobbsee> now we just get to see how bad the compiz fallout is, and how many people are actually affected by that livefs breakage
[06:05] <Hobbsee> hi jono_
[06:06] <Hobbsee> er, fs breakage.
[06:06] <Toadstool> you scared him away :)
[06:08] <Hobbsee> so it seems
[06:08] <superm1> Hobbsee, what was the livefs breakage?
[06:08] <Hobbsee> superm1: the stuff for xubuntu, or the fs breakage causing the gdm hang?
[06:08] <superm1> causing the gdm hang
[06:10] <Hobbsee>  * The desktop CD hangs on a lot of systems, especially slower ones
[06:10] <Hobbsee>    with little RAM. Sometimes it is just slow, sometimes it will hang
[06:10] <Hobbsee>    eternally. If you experience this and waiting a bit longer does
[06:10] <Hobbsee>    not help, try to restart the computer and the live CD. If that
[06:10] <Hobbsee>    still does not help, please use the alternate CD.
[06:10] <Hobbsee>    (https://launchpad.net/bugs/126964)
[06:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126964 in linux-source-2.6.22 "gutsy livefs causes random hangs or modprobe crashes" [Critical,New] 
[06:10] <Hobbsee> superm1: more detail in the backscroll
[06:11] <superm1> Hobbsee, ah good.  i've seen some random oddities like this myself in a VM.  I
[06:12] <superm1> 'll subscribe to this bug and watch for it
[06:12] <Hobbsee> cool
[06:23] <elkbuntu> where did mvo go to?
[06:23] <sladen> elkbuntu: I saw him in person, but that might hav ebeen last night
[06:24] <sladen> elkbuntu: actually, saw him during the fire alarm 6 hours ago
[06:24] <elkbuntu> sladen, tell him i have the logs he desires so much
[06:24] <elkbuntu> sladen, ha!
[06:26] <Nafallo> why did I read prison instead of person?
[06:27] <Hobbsee> morning calc
[06:27] <dholbach> congratulations pitti and Hobbsee :)
[06:27] <Hobbsee> thanks dholbach :)
[06:27] <calc> Hobbsee: good morning
[06:38] <Keybuk> keescook: did you look at the stuff debian have like this?
[06:38] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: i'm not sure if colin passed it on, but there are various debian-type people who think that an rss feed on patches.u.c/by-release/ would be useful.
[06:38] <jwendell> is GNOME 2.19.4 shipped with tribe 3?
[06:39] <Hobbsee> jwendell: 2.19.5, i think.  check the release notes
[06:39] <pygi> dholbach, around?
[06:39] <dholbach> yes
[06:40] <dholbach> I know you replied to that bug
[06:40] <pygi> dholbach, nah, it's not about that :)
[06:40] <dholbach> but I'm working on other things atm :)
[06:40] <dholbach> ahhh ok :)
[06:40] <pygi> dholbach, ergh, no need to reply since I need to make proper package first ... I made a major mistake by not looking :)
[06:40] <dholbach> pygi: ok
[06:40] <pygi> dholbach, soon we'll be able to sync libtapioca-glib from debian :D
[06:40] <dholbach> take your time
[06:40] <dholbach> ok cool
[06:40] <pygi> and fama as well ofcourse :p
[06:42] <dholbach> nice
[06:42] <seb128> hey Hobbsee, congrats on tribe 3 ;)
[06:42] <pygi> well, wont take anymore of your time
[06:42] <Hobbsee> seb128: thankyou :)
[06:43] <Hobbsee> seb128: thank pitti too, when he comes back
[06:54] <Hobbsee> mvo!!!
[06:54] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: ^
[06:54] <elkbuntu> mvo!
[06:54] <mvo> hey Hobbsee!
[06:54] <mvo> found network again :)
[06:54] <elkbuntu> guess what!
[06:54] <Hobbsee> mvo: woo!
[06:56] <elkbuntu> mvo, would you believe i am ssh'd into the livecd?
[06:57] <mvo> elkbuntu: cool!
[06:57] <mvo> elkbuntu: how did you managed?
[06:57] <elkbuntu> mvo: single user. passwd it a password. apt-get install openssh-server. play ball.
[06:57] <elkbuntu> so simple it's ridiculous
[06:58] <elkbuntu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/126971 has the xorg log appended now
[06:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126971 in compiz "[gutsy]  compiz crashes x or gdm repeatedly" [Undecided,New] 
[06:59] <mvo> elkbuntu: clever!
[06:59] <elkbuntu> mvo, i wish i could claim credit
[06:59] <elkbuntu> and i am going for nicotine. think of anything else you need me to scout off it when i get back, because i am soon to cuddle up to my pillow
[07:15] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: mmm, RSS
[07:15] <Keybuk> (pronounced in the Cambridge fasion)
[07:15] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: :)
[07:15] <Riddell> infinity: could you give back kde4pim kde4artwork and kde4addons?
[07:16] <Keybuk> but it's not a blog
[07:16] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: this is true.
[07:16] <Keybuk> if they want them when they arrive, they can subscribe to ubuntu-patches
[07:16] <Keybuk> which is the mailing list they're sent to
[07:16] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: the suggestion was for per-package
[07:16] <Keybuk> they get those
[07:16] <Hobbsee> so the maintainer could subscribe to the list of patches
[07:16] <Keybuk> they can
[07:16] <infinity> Riddell: If you ask nicely.
[07:16] <Keybuk> that's what the Debian PTS does
[07:16] <Hobbsee> apparently the QA thing they hadnt noticed, or something
[07:17] <Riddell> infinity: pretty please
[07:17] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: sounds like bad communication, rather than lack of infrastructure, then.  thanks
[07:18] <Keybuk> those files are the side-effect of the PTS system
[07:18] <Keybuk> rather than an end-product
[07:18] <Hobbsee> right
[07:18] <Keybuk> I put them on http because normally we only get them through the ubuntu-patches mailing list
[07:18] <Keybuk> and I figured URLs were more useful
[07:19] <infinity> Riddell: Done.  (Well, doing)
[07:19] <Hobbsee> fair enough
[07:19] <Keybuk> if they want a feed of anything in particular, I can add a subscription to the mailer for them
[07:20] <Hobbsee> right
[07:20] <Hobbsee> will pass the info back at some point, ,then
[08:36] <ynezz> is there something like build.opensuse.org for ubuntu?
[08:38] <Mithrandir> ynezz: yes, launchpad.
[08:52] <ynezz> wow, it's nice
[09:39] <Nafallo> doko: I have a friend asking me where he can find a JIT for the sun-java-5 packages.
[10:13] <dholbach> pitti: I filed bug 127055 - I hope that will make it easier
[10:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127055 in malone "Filtering on bug assignee A does not work in bug list of bugs related to team B" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127055
[10:13] <pitti> dholbach: great, thanks
[10:13] <dholbach> super :)
[10:38] <pitti> ogra: can you please add your findings to bug 126964? they were quite invaluable
[10:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126964 in linux-source-2.6.22 "gutsy livefs causes random hangs or modprobe crashes" [Critical,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126964
[10:41] <pkl_> pitti/ogra: a quick summary would be useful, as I'm looking into the bug now...  Was any definitive cause identified?
[10:41] <pitti> pkl_: last thing I knew from ogra was checking when the unionfs got corrupted files and when not, possibly related to a losetup change in casper; but I don't know details
[10:42] <dholbach> Meyvn: fire away - what questions do you have?
[10:42] <pkl_> pitti: ok, I'm having difficulty in reproducing the file corruption, but I have reproduced the system hangs.
[10:43] <mathiaz> keescook: upstream svn repository from apparmor has been imported into bzr
[10:44] <Meyvn> i was wondering how much programming experience you guys generally have before making the plunge
[10:44] <dholbach> Meyvn: there are lots of different ways in which to get involved in ubuntu
[10:44] <keescook> mathiaz: nice!
[10:45] <mathiaz> keescook: so now I'm in the process of removing all the patches from debian/
[10:45] <dholbach> Meyvn: so it's not only packaging/hacking/coding, but other things too: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate lists other ways too
[10:45] <Nafallo> Meyvn: none at all for me when I got to be a MOTU.
[10:45] <Nafallo> I think...
[10:45] <Meyvn> dholbach: i guess i have too little programming experience to participate
[10:45] <dholbach> Meyvn: if you're interested in ubuntu development as in packaging, you'd might be interested in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes
[10:45] <mathiaz> keescook: I've already pushed a new version - https://code.launchpad.net/~mathiaz/apparmor/ubuntu-mathiaz
[10:45] <keescook> mathiaz: heh.  be sure to branch from the right place -- we don't want to newer kernel modules :)
[10:45] <keescook> do I need to rebase or something?
[10:45] <mathiaz> keescook: I've branched from 510.
[10:45] <keescook> perfect
[10:46] <Meyvn> although i am interested in OS development
[10:46] <mathiaz> keescook: after that I cp debian/ and ci.
[10:46] <dholbach> Meyvn: also join up on the ubuntu-motu-mentors@ mailing list - so you're in touch with people who mentor and people who just start contributing
[10:46] <mathiaz> keescook: and than pushed to a new branch.
[10:46] <Meyvn> dholbach: thanks, I'll do that
[10:46] <dholbach> Meyvn: rock and roll
[10:46] <mathiaz> keescook: does this sound correct ?
[10:47] <keescook> mathiaz: I think so; this is new to me too.  :)
[10:47] <dholbach> Meyvn: I'm about to call it a day for today, let me know how it goes, drop me a mail if anything's unclear or you need help with anything
[10:47] <cjwatson> Meyvn: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu, if nobody mentioned it already.
[10:47] <dholbach> Meyvn: dholbach at ubuntu dot com
[10:47] <dholbach> see you tomorrow
[10:47] <Meyvn> dholbach: thanks a lot and goodbye!
[10:47] <dholbach> seeyou
[10:48] <pitti> pkl_: ah, good; can you make any sense of it?
[10:48] <Meyvn> sadly my C# knowledge isn't going to help when developping for Linux, heh
[10:48] <mathiaz> keescook: so next is to get rid of all the patches in debian/patches/ and apply them inline ?
[10:48] <pitti> pkl_: I'm a noob in kernel debugging, I could just randomly peck at sysrq+t and such
[10:49] <keescook> mathiaz: yes, that's my understanding.
[10:49] <keescook> then it'll be much easier for you to do development work.  :)
[10:50] <mathiaz> keescook: ok. I'll work on that and see if I can make this thing done.
[10:50] <mathiaz> keescook: and soon we should have apparmor into main too.
[10:50] <keescook> \o/
[10:50] <pkl_> pitti: I know where and what mutex processes are hanging on in Squashfs.  What I don't know yet is why the mutex wasn't release.  I'm working on it now...
[10:53] <pkl_> pitti: The other piece of the puzzle is the system is running out of memory, and the SLUB is failing, any sloppy code whic doesn't check for this will fail nastily in random ways.
[10:53] <pkl_> pitti: The OOM killer is also being invoked, this may explain the non release of the mutex.
[10:54] <pkl_> pitti: s/SLUB/SLUB allocator/g
[10:57] <cjwatson> Meyvn: mono does exist, but it's true that the majority of packages are in a small number of other languages (C, Python, Perl, C++, shell being probably the most important ones to have a basic grip on depending on what you're doing)
[10:59] <mathiaz> keescook: hum. The version from the bzr tree is different from the orig.tar.gz
[11:04] <Meyvn> cjwatson: well my C++ isn't that bad :)
[11:06] <stgraber> Meyvn: if you want to work on the core packages (library, kernel, daemon, ...) it'll be mainly C, C++ and a bit of scripting (bash), then for frontends it'll be C, C++, python and some others like perl and C#
[11:06] <cjwatson> mr_pouit: did you notice that you put a copy of GPLv3 in xubuntu-meta, but debian/copyright says GPLv2?
[11:06] <stgraber> I have forgotten some, I'm sure of that ... :)
[11:06] <cjwatson> (I'm going to put GPLv2 in the other *-meta source packages)
[11:10] <pitti> IntuitiveNipple, pkl_: glad to introduce you; IntuitiveNipple was debugging that live CD kernel crash
[11:11] <IntuitiveNipple> Call me TJ - thats my name :)
[11:11] <IntuitiveNipple> saves a lot of typing, too
[11:12] <pkl_> TJ: did you discover anything interesting?
[11:12] <IntuitiveNipple> Are there any signature errors from the logs that can be ignored? I'm wondering about the clocksource failure in my set of logs - kernel logging timecodes suddenly change dramatically at the same time a TSC error is logged
[11:13] <IntuitiveNipple> pkl_: I'm not sure yet, there's quite a few faults in the various logs (I've attached the log bundle to the launchpad bug)
[11:14] <pkl_> TJ: you're getting kernel oopses?  They'll be interesting to have a look at.
[11:15] <IntuitiveNipple> I saw plenty of segment faults but so far no Oops reported that I've noticed anyhow... I'm just doing yet another boot on another notebook to see how far it goes... its started X ok this time, and is plodding on... just when I needed it to fail :)
[11:16] <soren> pitti: Do you have a minute to binary NEW the three ebox modules from earlier today?
[11:18] <pitti> soren: yeah, can do
[11:18] <soren> pitti: \o/
[11:19] <soren> pitti: I thought when the "resulting binaries" portlet listed them, they had been accepted, but it seems not to be the case.
[11:19] <pitti> no, still in new
[11:20] <pitti> there they go
[11:21] <soren> pitti: Yay. Thanks!
[11:21] <ScottK> pitti: Since soren started it ;-) would you be up for releasing clamav 0.88.7-1ubuntu1~dapper (it's a source backport).
[11:22] <IntuitiveNipple> Phillip, can we ignore things like "containing coreutils, pre-dependency problem: coreutils pre-depends on libacl1" and "coreutils is unpacked, but has never been configured" in bootstrap.log as symptoms rather than causes or is it something to investigate?
[11:23] <pitti> ScottK: tomorrow preferably, on my archive day; any idea where I get that version from?
[11:23] <ScottK> pitti: Tomorrow not problem.  StevenK uploaded it as a source backport earlier this week.
[11:24] <ScottK> It should be sitting there waiting to be accepted.
[11:24] <pitti> aah, good
[11:24] <IntuitiveNipple> So weird - its just fully booted tribe-3 now I want it to fail!
[11:25] <pitti> IntuitiveNipple: happened a lot to me too :/
[11:25] <IntuitiveNipple> This is my first time it worked... typical!
[11:26] <IntuitiveNipple> Well I guess that rules out worrying about the pre-dependency warnings!
[11:28] <IntuitiveNipple> still got the same suspend-then-resumes-immediately issue too :)
[11:29] <pitti> IntuitiveNipple: ^ that sounds like too little swap
[11:29] <IntuitiveNipple> suspend, not hibernate :)
[11:30] <IntuitiveNipple> I *think* it is to do with a USB wakeup event when some device powers-off - I built a USb debug kernel earlier but haven't had chance to test it so far
[11:32] <IntuitiveNipple> Interesting... don't know if this is significant, but it looks like the successful boots don't have the TSC failed issue I referred to earlier (got another seemingly good boot going now) and the TSC issue is showing up way before the squashfs is touched. might be a lead.
[11:54] <cjwatson> IntuitiveNipple: those are all expected consequences of bootstrapping
[11:55] <cjwatson> (the coreutils stuff)
[11:55] <cjwatson> the world isn't quite sane when debootstrap is in the process of putting it together, and it has to force some things
[11:56] <IntuitiveNipple> cjwatson: thanks, I thought so but best to ask, trying to elliminate as many stray bits as possible
[11:56] <IntuitiveNipple> ha! caught it failing again and have access to the logs
[11:59] <ajmitch> main is unfrozen again, I presume?
[12:00] <IntuitiveNipple> OK, whilst I have command-line control of a faulting system, is there anything I can look at/for to help us on this tribe-3 random corruption issue?
[12:01] <cjwatson> ajmitch: yeah
[12:02] <cjwatson> ajmitch: (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy => if that says "Active Development" then there's no freeze in place)
[12:02] <ajmitch> right, that's what I'd hoped :)
[12:02] <ajmitch> your remark about coreutils reminded me that I needed to upload a simple FTBFS fix for it
[12:04] <cjwatson> and this also reminds me that I wanted to sync a new germinate
[12:04] <cjwatson> *blat*