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mathiazkeescook: I've finished converting apparmor packages to use bzr.01:02
mathiazkeescook: It was a bit more complicated as the content of the orig.tar.gz was not the same as the rev I branch from (510)01:05
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mathiazkeescook: I've published a new branch: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mathiaz/apparmor/ubuntu-mathiaz01:06
Chipzznot that it matters probably, but I'm in favour of using selinux and against apparmor01:06
Chipzzselinux looks like the most mature and most complete solution01:06
Chipzzthat and debian will also probably go with selinux01:07
mathiazChipzz: when debian will have integrated selinux, ubuntu will also have it. so we'll have both apparmor and selinux.01:10
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StevenKBlink. Now NBS is empty.01:51
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pkl_IntuitiveNipple, pitti, ogra: please test the liveCD iso in http://people.ubuntu.com/~pkl.  That's got a fix for a Squashfs race condition that sneaked into the code in April.  For some reason the Squashfs code in the Gutsy kernel wasn't updated when I found it in May.  With that fix the liveCD doesn't hang in my tests. I've been unable to reproduce the filesystem corruption, and so your mileage may vary.01:55
IntuitiveNipplepkl_: I'll grab it now01:56
pkl_TJ: (easier to type :) ), thanks01:56
IntuitiveNipplethe nick is only to make people smile :p01:57
IntuitiveNippleI hope you've fixed it - I was trying to focus on a suspend-then-resumes-immediately issue :)01:57
Nafallomade me smile anyway :-)01:58
bluefoxicynipples wtf01:58
=== IntuitiveNipple wibbles
bluefoxicythe only intuitive interface01:58
IntuitiveNippleall the rest are learned01:59
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mjg59bluefoxicy: I really recommend you don't try suggesting this to anyone who's ever breast fed01:59
keescookChipzz: I'm hoping to get selinux fully integrated too.  if you've got some details or patches to help it happen, I would be very interested.01:59
bluefoxicymjg59:  I would hope I'd stop breast feeding by the time I'm old enough to remember.02:00
pkl_TJ: I'm not sure it will fix all the issues.  I suspect some of the issues are caused by out of memory in the kernel allocator.  A lot of kernel code fails in nasty ways when that happens (if you need some kernel memory to do something, and you can't get it, you've no alternative but to crap out in as graceful way as possible).02:00
mjg59bluefoxicy: It's really, really, really not intuitive02:00
IntuitiveNipplepkl_: I'll test it, report, then get to bed... its turning into another all-nighter!02:01
bluefoxicymjg59:  Leo gave me a pic of you in a straw hat, I think.02:01
pkl_TJ: yeah, it's 1am here :)02:01
IntuitiveNipplesnap :)02:01
IntuitiveNippleNow if you could only solve this suspend/resume issue I'd be happy!02:01
pkl_TJ: UK?02:01
IntuitiveNippleYes, deepest rural Notts on a farm02:02
pkl_TJ: sounds good, I'm in rural Wales :)02:02
IntuitiveNippleAhh... used to be a big haunt of mine :)02:02
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pkl_TJ: OK, what parts?  I live in Chepstow, which is in Monmouthshire, before you get to the built up areas of Cardiff/Swansea etc.  Ceredigion would be a nice area to live, but Chepstow is handy for Cardiff and Bristol (I used to work in Bristol).02:05
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pkl_TJ: suspend/resume are probably the biggest cause of problems we have with the kernel at the moment.  Two different competing systems (one winner), both broken.  Looks like there's some work going on a third alternative (suspend3), but that won't be ready for a long time.02:10
IntuitiveNipplepkl_: I used head out to Llanidloes/Clewedog and also the Lynn penninsula, visiting friends02:10
IntuitiveNipplepkl_: Yes, I've been working in it quite a bit recently... I've got a weird one where it suspends/resumes *perfectly* but the resume happens right at the point it should do hw_sleep() and there are no clues anywhere as to what is causing it02:11
ion_pkl: And when suspend3 is deemed broken, the situation can be corrected simply by introducing suspend4. ;-)02:11
IntuitiveNippleI just installed a USB debug kernel hoping to see some USB wakeup events, but it isn't that02:12
pkl_Ah, north wales (Gogledd Cymru).  Very nice part of the world.   I did seriously think about moving to Bangor once.02:12
IntuitiveNippleI once fitted a new rear independent suspension unit to a Rover 3500 V8 one saturday afternoon there, after driving 140 miles from Llanidloes to get the only spare part in Wales!02:12
IntuitiveNippleThat drive was like being at sea... talk about feeling sea-sick driving with broken suspension!02:13
IntuitiveNipplepkl_: I'm emigrating in a few weeks, to somewhere rather sunnier :)02:14
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pkl_TJ: heh, 140 miles from Llanidloes, that's a long drive!02:15
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pkl_TJ: where are you going?02:17
IntuitiveNippleAndulcia, Spain02:17
IntuitiveNippleoops, my typing... Andalucia !02:18
pkl_TJ: good luck!02:19
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IntuitiveNipplethis download is about at 50%02:20
pkl_TJ: yeah, it was going to take me over 5 hours to copy the file to the Ubuntu webserver.  Luckily I could use rsync over ssh to only transfer the changes.  With iso's ADSL is slow...02:23
IntuitiveNipple466MB done02:30
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IntuitiveNippleBurning Test-CD now02:47
IntuitiveNippletime for a fresh cuppa whilst this burns02:48
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ajmitchhello Burgundavia02:52
Burgundaviahey ajmitch02:52
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IntuitiveNipplePhillip, first boot seems to have gone OK although I saw the same bunch of udev errors that were present with the faulty tribe-3 (presuming they weren't caused by this, then it seems OK)03:17
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pkl_TJ: sounds good.  Thanks for doing the test.03:20
IntuitiveNippleI'll do a couple more boots just to be confident03:21
pkl_TJ: I think it is time for bed...  See you tomorrow...03:21
IntuitiveNipplelol yeah... my dog has just decided to have a good run about too03:21
pkl_TJ: OK, let me know what happens - thanks03:21
IntuitiveNipplewill do03:21
IntuitiveNippleI'll comment on the bug03:21
Nafallodamn you guys are confusing :-)03:22
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TheMuso_Congrats all on the tribe release.06:03
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Hobbseehi all07:15
=== Hobbsee hugs Burgundavia
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Jedusorhi Hobbsee07:16
Jedusorhi Burgundavia07:16
Hobbseehi Jedusor07:16
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Hobbseemorning siretart08:15
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Hobbseepkl_: you rock.08:17
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Hobbseeanyone know if there's a trick to rsyncing off p.u.c?08:28
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Hobbseepitti:  know if there's a trick to rsyncing off p.u.c?08:28
pittiGood morning!08:29
pittiHobbsee: for pkl_'s CD?08:29
Hobbseepitti: yes08:29
pittiHobbsee: hmm, only with ssh08:29
Hobbseesarah@LongPointyStick:/storage/isos$ rsync -zhhP rsync://people.ubuntu.com/~pkl/test-gutsy-desktop-i386.iso  ubuntu-gutsy-desktop-i386.iso08:29
Hobbseersync: failed to connect to people.ubuntu.com: Connection timed out (110)08:29
Hobbseersync error: error in socket IO (code 10) at clientserver.c(104) [receiver=2.6.9] 08:29
jdongaww no rsyncd :)08:29
jdongHobbsee: is wget end of the world or something?08:29
Hobbseepitti: i dont suppose you could copy it somewhere rsyncable?08:30
elkbuntujdong, for bandwidth, yes08:30
pittiHobbsee: you could wget it from a computer with good bandwidth where you have ssh access and then rsync from there08:30
Hobbseejdong: you clearly do not live in australia08:30
jdongdoes rsync really help on squashfs'ed CD's?08:30
Hobbseepitti: oh, point.08:30
Hobbseejdong: seems to08:30
jdongI would expect data to be in fairly arbitrary order across rebuilds, no?08:30
fabbionehey pitti08:30
jdongconsidering that it's all compressed in 65K blocks or whatnot08:30
pittijdong: yes, that works very well08:30
pittihey fabbione!08:30
jdongpitti: cool, didn't know that. Got to try that some time08:31
pittijdong: in breezy or so we made some changes that ensures sane rsyncability08:31
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jdongpitti: that is really considerate :)08:31
pittijdong: the very first warty/hoary ones were indeed not08:31
fabbionepitti:  i just retested #98518 ... IMHO you are good to go...08:31
pittifabbione: ah, good!08:32
fabbionepitti: so that can go into .208:32
=== Hobbsee waves the "i dont suppose anyone can grab that iso, and let elkbuntu and i rsync off it?" magic stick around
=== pitti changes to verification-done
jdongHobbsee: lol if I were on wired and not wifi....08:33
elkbuntujdong, heh. your wifi is our wired :08:33
elkbuntui hate you so much08:34
jdong11 minutes...08:34
pittiHobbsee: I wonder whether I could just put it on cdimage.u.c. temporarily08:34
Hobbseejdong: you suck.08:34
Hobbseepitti: that'd work08:34
=== jdong not gonna disclose internet2 speeds on wired... :D
pittia lot of people will want to try it, after all08:34
elkbuntujdong, thanks08:34
=== jdong hugs elkbuntu and Hobbsee
Amaranthjdong: heh, that's my wireless speed too08:34
Hobbseepitti: i vaguely ponder a respin, with that fix...08:34
jdongAmaranth: it's definitely a wireless limit here08:34
elkbuntuAmaranth, i hate you too then08:34
jdongand it doesn't help that my closest AP is offline08:35
pittiHobbsee: the dailies will have it when we'll get the new kernel08:35
Hobbseepitti: or at least another release annoucement saying "if you're having trouble, try here"08:35
Hobbseeah right08:35
jdongwhat exactly is this ISO?08:35
jdongis it an updated tribe3 spin?08:35
elkbuntuHobbsee, see, we could have delayed it the whole of a day!08:35
elkbuntuhehe, not even a day08:35
Hobbseeelkbuntu: would have been more than a day, though.  testing.08:35
pittijdong: I guess tribe3 with pkl_'s fixed kernel08:35
Hobbseepitti: which we rejected.  great08:36
jdongpitti: ah, fix for the livefs kernel issues?08:36
pittiHobbsee: no, at that time it wasn't fixed yet08:36
pittiit just came up yesterday08:36
Amaranththose dang bandwidth limits must really hurt when you're doing a release08:36
Hobbseepitti: oh, This has a fix for a Squashfs race condition that slipped into the code in April. A fix was released in May, but due to some oversight, the Gutsy kernel code wasn't updated.08:36
HobbseeAmaranth: rsync.08:36
Hobbseeotherwise it's not possible08:37
jdongI'm like 30% across...08:37
jdongsetting up a dummy user for ssh-age08:37
=== Hobbsee now has more plans for tribe 4, if she gets to implement them :P
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jdongthat was on yummy gigabit08:38
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Hobbseepitti: but for that matter...why *doesnt* p.u.c support rsync?08:39
Hobbseeand can it be made to?08:39
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HobbseeAmaranth: rsync, and a lot of ssh, too.08:41
HobbseeAmaranth: paritcularly if a couple of the places that you can ssh to have a local mirror.08:41
HobbseeAmaranth: the speed is the blocker usually, not the bandwidth so much08:42
HobbseeAmaranth: then again, you dont have to upload terribly much, which is the real killer, at least for me.08:42
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jdong50 seconds....08:46
jdongelkbuntu: Hobbsee ^^08:47
pittithere we go08:48
jdongidentical timing :D08:48
Mithrandirasac: you don't have the mobile browser by intel packaged up by any chance?08:48
Mithrandirasac: getting that in would be very nice.08:48
Hobbseegreat, thanks08:50
=== Hobbsee waits for it to do anything
Hobbseeahh, here we go08:50
pittirsync -vP rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/bug-fix-tests/gutsy-desktop-i386.126964.iso gutsy-desktop-i386.iso08:50
pittithat seems to work fine08:50
=== pitti adds bug comment
pittispeedup is 67.8808:51
pittinow that's nice :)08:51
Hobbseeyeah, that's veyrf nice :)08:51
Hobbsee17 seconds....08:51
Hobbseeman i love rsync.08:51
jdongwow I never knew it worked so well for ubuntu isos08:51
pittiogra: since you have such perfect hardware for this bug, can you please rsync and try this as well?08:51
jdongif that's the case, we should really get cracking on that zsync spec :)08:51
Hobbseepitti: ah ha!  my speedup wins@08:53
Hobbseesent 184.39K bytes  received 8.39M bytes  41.47K bytes/sec08:53
Hobbseetotal size is 692.42M  speedup is 80.8408:53
jdongthat's even more impressive :)08:53
pittiHobbsee: so I guess pkl just put a different squashfs.ko into it or so :)08:53
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=== jdong started using zsh today....
jdongIMO we should ship a more functional zshrc in our packaging...08:56
jdongthe process of getting a half-decent zshrc was more than painful08:56
asacMithrandir: yes ... i was disrupted by mozilla quick-release ... so ... I will work on the package today08:58
Hobbseeasac: if we now have a ubufox, do you also plan for a kubufox, to get the kubuntu defaults?08:59
Mithrandirasac: great, thanks.09:00
asacHobbsee: hmm ... for now I have no use-case for making a new extensino package for kubuntu ... but who knows09:01
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Hobbseeasac: for the "firefox working better on kde" spec, etc09:02
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=== elkbuntu boots into the testing image
asacHobbsee: i think most of the kde features should go to firefox core ... not to an extension.09:19
elkbuntuor tries. stupid cd09:19
asacHobbsee: i think one could say: kde specifics should go to core, while kubuntu specifics might justify a kubuntu extension09:19
Mithrandirasac: new firefox broke my middlemouseContentLoadURL setting _again_.09:20
asacMithrandir: what did it do?09:20
Mithrandirasac: reset it to false.09:21
asacMithrandir: so its default now again?09:21
elkbuntuHobbsee, can you md5 sum the testing image please?09:21
asacif you look in about:config?09:21
Mithrandirasac: yes.09:21
Mithrandir(well, it's now true again, since I changed it.  I prefer my browser to work)09:21
asacMithrandir: can you reinstall ubufox and see if things get reset?09:22
Mithrandirasac: you need to find a way to make sure this works correctly on upgrades; not doing so breaks the golden rule.09:22
elkbuntuor pitti or jdong09:22
pittielkbuntu: 7328f59cfdcebce5d0565c332e8691f6 here09:23
Mithrandirasac: it did not get reset when I reinstalled the same version of ubufox.09:23
=== StevenK appears
pittihey StevenK09:23
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StevenKHi pitti09:24
dholbachgood morning09:24
cjwatsonpitti: FWIW, the specialised changes in breezy to improve rsyncability were for cloop; when we switched to squashfs, it was sanely rsyncable without the need for anything special09:24
pittihey dholbach09:24
pitticjwatson: ah, cool09:24
dholbachheya pitti09:24
elkbuntupitti, thanks. /me snaps the cd09:24
elkbuntupitti, you might want to put that with the image09:25
pittielkbuntu: right09:26
pittielkbuntu: done09:27
elkbuntupitti, cool09:28
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asacMithrandir: 1. downgraded ubufox ... all still fine ... 2. upgraded ubufox again ... all still fine here :/09:28
Mithrandirasac: I don't think ubufox was upgraded, just firefox.09:29
asaci uploaded both09:31
Hobbseepitti: works for me09:31
Hobbseeasac: true, as long as they dont overwrite the gnome ones...09:32
Hobbseewhich i suspect they may09:32
Hobbseepitti: the iso, that is09:32
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asacMithrandir: yes ... thats interesting09:41
asacMithrandir: smells like a bug in upgrade code09:41
Mithrandirplz fix. :-)09:41
elkbuntuMithrandir, you missed the kthxbye bit09:41
Mithrandirelkbuntu: I'm friendly today, so no kthxbye09:42
=== elkbuntu hugs the friendly Mithrandir
Hobbseeelkbuntu: it's a trick.09:42
=== Hobbsee hides away from Mithrandir's big, sharp teeth.
=== Mithrandir snatches Hobbsee and chews on her.
=== Hobbsee does not wish to be chewed on!
elkbuntuMithrandir, tasty?09:43
=== Hobbsee beats Mithrandir up with a large piece of concrete
Hobbseeelkbuntu: not tasty.  too bony.09:44
Mithrandirelkbuntu: a bit too much bone, yes.09:44
elkbuntuwhat is with the concrete? the stick on hiatus?09:44
Hobbseeelkbuntu: more effective than a large pipe, as it's bigger.09:44
=== Mithrandir sees Hobbsee try to lift a piece of concrete and getting herself smashed as she can no longer hold it above her head.
=== Hobbsee can probably still lift reasonably large amounts of weight...
Hobbseedepends how big the concrete is, though09:44
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dholbachyou guys are weird09:45
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Hobbseedholbach: you mean it's taken you *this* long to notice?09:46
dholbachno, but this time I couldn't stop myself typing it ;-)09:46
elkbuntuooh. i get a desktop and no looping gdm09:46
elkbuntuwhere's pitti?09:46
elkbuntuand mvo09:46
Hobbseeelkbuntu: they were Mithrandir's first and second victims09:46
pittielkbuntu: I didn't go anywhere09:46
elkbuntui get a 'failed to initialize HAL!' though09:46
pittielkbuntu: that usually happens if it takes very long to start the session09:47
pittielkbuntu: does 'pidof hald' print out anything?09:47
elkbuntupitti, ok, it did take a fair while09:47
elkbuntupitti, seems that it wasnt compiz?09:47
cjwatsongrr, the last firefox/ubufox? upgrade trashed my middlemouse.contentLoadURL preference *again*09:47
elkbuntupitti, opening terminal gives me "/bin/sh: Can't open id" still09:48
elkbuntubut i do have a prompt09:48
pittielkbuntu: "file /usr/bin/id" ?09:48
StevenKcjwatson: [17:22]  < Mithrandir> asac: new firefox broke my middlemouseContentLoadURL setting _again_.09:48
Mithrandircjwatson: yes, see above.  asac is already looking at it.09:48
elkbuntupitti, hald id is there09:48
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pittielkbuntu: hald> ok, so it was just due to slow startup and should be harmless09:49
pittielkbuntu: so /usr/bin/id is still trashed for you?09:49
elkbuntupitti, sec09:49
pittielkbuntu: if so, please note that in the bug report09:49
elkbuntu"cannot execute binary file"09:49
pittielkbuntu: what does file say?09:50
elkbuntupitti, gobbledigook09:50
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pittielkbuntu: ok, so something else still seems to be wrong; please do a bug followup with that09:50
elkbuntupitti, what bug#. i'll attach it09:50
elkbuntuoh, my bug id?09:50
pittielkbuntu: bug 12696409:51
ubotuLaunchpad bug 126964 in linux-source-2.6.22 "gutsy livefs causes random hangs or modprobe crashes" [Critical,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12696409:51
elkbuntubut other than that, it is much improved09:51
elkbuntuhmm... has the default font changed or something?09:53
elkbuntuit's really hard on my eyes :-/09:53
Hobbseeof launchpad?  yes09:53
elkbuntuHobbsee, yeah09:53
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elkbuntuactually... the font in the firefox menus is crap too, so it might be my screen09:55
stubelkbuntu: I believe Launchpad now honours whatever default fonts your browser is configured for rather than rudely overriding them.09:56
Hobbseeoh, so that's why my font changed too...09:56
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cjwatsonStevenK,Mithrandir: ah, heh09:59
elkbuntustub, ok. that would explain why all fonts in the firefox window hurt my eyes09:59
cjwatsonStevenK,Mithrandir: (it was while I was pinged out)09:59
elkbuntuwhich i suspect would be where we blame gtk09:59
Hobbseejust switch to qt.  easy fix.09:59
elkbuntupitti, would you like me to attach the id file?10:00
elkbuntuHobbsee, eww10:00
Mithrandircjwatson: pinging ftw. :-)10:00
thomHobbsee: (or tear your eyes out - about the same level of pain and suffering)10:00
pittielkbuntu: the output of "file /usr/bin/id" is enough, I think10:00
stubelkbuntu: or the default font selection the firefox packager used. or you for not changing your defaults to something more aesthetically pleasing to you :)10:00
elkbuntustub, this is the livecd. i doubt many people are going to change the default settings for a first-time preview ;)10:01
cjwatsonelkbuntu: Launchpad 1.1.7 advertised a larger font size as one of its "benefits"10:01
cjwatsonelkbuntu: I filed bug 126993 about it10:02
ubotuLaunchpad bug 126993 in launchpad "bug body text font size recently changed to be annoyingly large" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12699310:02
elkbuntucjwatson, the size isnt the issue. the letters are narrow and fuzzy10:02
cjwatsonelkbuntu: ok, different problem then10:02
elkbuntupitti, file /usr/bin/id is interesting to say the least10:05
pittielkbuntu: some XML goo?10:05
elkbuntuit's an mpeg10:06
pittielkbuntu: right, ogra had some XML goo; it obviously points to the wrong bits of the CD10:06
elkbuntusec while i finish the comment. attaching the file for posterity10:06
cjwatsonI suspect the contents of the file are not all that interesting10:07
cjwatsonthough I suppose correlating it with where that data should have been might be informative10:07
elkbuntupitti, and would explain why it's not quite working as it should10:08
elkbuntucomment submitted10:08
elkbuntupitti, so what should we do with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/126971 ? i assume nothing changed in that department, so it's probably wrongly filed?10:11
ubotuLaunchpad bug 126971 in compiz "[gutsy]  compiz crashes x or gdm repeatedly" [High,New] 10:11
pittielkbuntu: just leave it there, mvo is much better skilled to look at it10:12
pittiScottK: clamav accepted for dapper-backports10:13
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elkbuntupitti, would the id mixup be to do with the FS corruption issue? maybe not entirely fixed, just fixed enough to boot?10:19
pittielkbuntu: well, that *is* the fs corruption issue, isn't it?10:20
elkbuntuoh. right10:20
=== elkbuntu should stop trying to be a l33t h4cker type :
pittioh, please don't :)10:21
=== elkbuntu hides
pittielkbuntu: ATM I'm not sure wheter there are actually two bugs: one squashfs race condition (which pkl fixed) and another bug that causes fs corruption10:22
elkbuntui've been supposed to be writing an article over the past day, this kinda... distracted me10:22
pittithey did seem to be related at first10:22
=== Hobbsee --> gone. out to dinner
elkbuntupitti, i'd guess the corruption would be what tripped the race condition up?10:22
=== elkbuntu has no clue about race conditions, so is talking out her arse here
=== pitti doesn't know
elkbuntuok, im going to reboot into the safe graphics mode and see if that goes smooth too10:25
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elkbuntuhmm. safe graphics mode isnt so safe with the via10:30
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ograpitti, ergh, so sorry, the drugs i take tear me down around noon atm, not taking a nap made me fall asleep before meeting/release11:06
pittiogra: no problem :) I hope you'll get well soon!11:07
pittiogra: so, in the meantime we have a new ISO to test, which apparently makes it better, but still doesn't solve the file corruption11:07
ograjust had my final examination at the dentist ... pulling the sewing out of my jaw ... ad dont need to take the painkillers anymore, only antibiotics left, should be good now :)11:08
ograyeah i saw the ping11:08
ogramy changing back of the loop device creation in casper somehow didnt work ...11:09
ogra(it didnt mount at all and i didnt debug further yet ... rsyncing the last image now11:09
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elkbuntuogra, are you with your via and is it free at the moment?11:25
elkbuntuogra, are you able to boot into 'safe mode' with the new iso?11:26
elkbuntusafe graphics mode*11:26
ograi'm still rsyncing11:27
elkbuntuno prob11:27
ograah, no, its done... gmiie a second to burn11:27
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fabbionecjwatson: do you have a few minutes to discuss a couple of debian-installer/anna changes?11:36
fabbionecjwatson: if you are busy i can mail them or file a wishlist bug...11:36
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pittiRiddell: can bug 126766 be closed now in gutsy?11:39
ubotuLaunchpad bug 126766 in feisty-backports "latest qt 4.3 backports produces visual corruption during scrolling and in the systray" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12676611:39
elkbuntupitti, does the 20070720 daily have the race fix?11:42
pittielkbuntu: no, it can't (no new kernel)11:42
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ograelkbuntu, behavior didnt change gdm doesnt start, i seem to get the ncurses gui that asks if i want to see the logs but the console display is so broken that i only can guess its that question11:43
Riddellpitti: I certainly hope so, the reporter is yet to confirm to me that it fixed his problem11:43
ograpitti, sure thats a kernel thing ?11:43
pitti   qt4-x11 | 4.3.0-4ubuntu1 |         gutsy | source11:43
pitti   qt4-x11 | 4.3.0-4ubuntu1~feisty1 | feisty-backports | source11:44
elkbuntupitti, ah ok. should i still file bugs against the test image then, or wait?11:44
ograi still think its casper11:44
pittiRiddell: so is that the new version you uploaded?11:44
ograeve though it might be that the race comes from the kernel and caper only exposes it after the changes11:44
pittiogra: I think pkl put in a new squashfs.ko in his test iso11:44
Riddellpitti: yes11:44
elkbuntuogra, try booting in safe mode again, but add single to the options11:44
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pittielkbuntu: I'd rather wait for now11:44
ograelkbuntu, oki11:45
elkbuntupitti, right11:45
pittiRiddell: curious, I didn't backport that one today, I just binary-NEWed it in backports11:45
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Riddellpitti: oh I approved it, sorry should have told you11:46
pittiRiddell: no problem11:47
pittiRiddell: you should just have closed the backports task11:47
pittibut let's wait for confirmation, right11:47
ograelkbuntu, single helps ...11:49
ograbut lots of complaints about scripts in /lib/udev this time :)11:50
elkbuntuogra, what does lspci report your vid card as11:50
ograso FS corruption persists11:50
elkbuntu(if you get to a terminal)11:50
ograApollo CLE26611:50
Riddellpitti: if you pass qt4-x11 through NEW in gutsy that'll help matters along11:50
pittiah, sure11:51
elkbunturight, we have different VIAs11:51
pittiRiddell: done11:51
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cjwatsonfabbione: I have a few minutes now11:52
elkbuntuogra, for the record, this is the vesa not liking the via. normal graphics mode works for me ;)11:52
cjwatsonpitti: I'm merging the Ubuntu debootstrap fakechroot scripts into the main scripts, BTW11:53
tkamppeterI have a question about Launchpad: How can I remove dependencies between Blueprints?11:53
fabbionecjwatson: ok cool.. so basically the use case we are facing often right now is that we need to boot on totally new hw that requires new kernel support.11:53
cjwatsonpitti: you shouldn't notice a difference, but let me know if you do11:53
ograelkbuntu, this one actually works with via11:53
ograbut needs VideoRam set11:53
pitticjwatson: ah, that's sweet; it'll end up as a proper variant?11:53
cjwatsonpitti: yeah11:53
fabbionecjwatson: ideally we would like to piggyback an installer initrd.gz (without ubuntu kernel modules) right into a custom kernel and avoid anna to complain about missing kernel modules11:53
elkbuntuogra, ah. this is probably the problem with mine too11:53
fabbionecjwatson: so i did look a bit around and found (general lines) this solution..11:54
cjwatsonfabbione: my instinctive solution for that would be to use multiple initramfses11:54
fabbionecjwatson: debian-installer to have an extra netboot target of somekind that will take the same initrd as generated by the netboot target and rm -rf /lib/modules11:54
elkbuntuogra, is this a known bug?11:54
fabbionecjwatson: and anna to not complain if there is no /lib/modules as sign that the image is custom11:54
fabbionecjwatson: yeps.. exactly.. but we need to generate and publish an extra initrd11:55
cjwatsonfabbione: I think that's overkill, just make a tree with the new /lib/modules, cpio it up, and slam it on the end of the normal initrd11:55
ograelkbuntu, for this model at least11:55
fabbionecjwatson: but once you did warn me that adding targets to d-i is not trivial11:55
cjwatsonfabbione: it'll use a bit more memory, but not enough to worry about for us11:55
fabbionecjwatson: there are issues with the size of the kernel and the initrd on some arches.11:56
fabbionecjwatson: they tend to explode a bit with debugging and custom kernels11:56
cjwatsonsize of single initrds, but not afaik with multiple initramfses11:56
fabbioneit's a problem with the PXE equivalent of sparc...11:56
fabbioneit can't cope with more than 9MB11:56
fabbioneand the image is one file11:56
cjwatsonI'm not interested in supporting an installer initrd.gz with no modules11:56
fabbionein netbooting that's it11:56
cjwatsonI don't think that's appropriate or sensible11:56
cjwatsonit's very easy to unpack a d-i initrd and put new modules in it11:57
cjwatsonit could be scripted trivially11:57
cjwatsonunless you mean a non-modular kernel, but surely that will break in other places in Ubuntu11:57
fabbionewe often don't need new modules in.. just a stripped down initrd.. anyway the problem is that we still don't publish the netboot initrd on sparc.. that would be a good start and more than ok to me11:58
fabbionenon-modular seems to work pretty well at the moment for the installer11:58
fabbioneexcept that anna error :)11:58
cjwatsonin any case, if you just want to kill anna's complaint, that's trivial11:58
cjwatsonpreseed anna/no_kernel_modules=true11:58
fabbioneok.. would you be totally against publishing the netboot initrd in the archive?11:59
cjwatsonif it's not published, that's just a bug11:59
fabbionei mean you ca find it in the mini.iso.. but it's an extra set of steps.. etc.11:59
cjwatsonyou mean that's there's no initrd.gz alongside http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/main/installer-sparc/current/images/sparc64/netboot/2.6/boot.img ?11:59
fabbioneboot.img is kernel+initrd12:00
cjwatsonsure, I can fix that12:00
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fabbioneok that would be more than enough for me to avoid manual rebuilds to grab the initrd.gz12:00
fabbionethe other stuff was more for a wishlist12:00
fabbionewe can live with modules and anna complains12:00
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fabbionecjwatson: do you want a bug for it?12:01
cjwatsonno, it's ok, I've done it already, just preparing the upload12:02
cjwatsonlike I say, the right way to turn off the anna complaint is preseeding, IMO12:02
fabbioneyeps.. that's fine12:03
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cjwatsonone reason I don't really want to go the stripped-down initrd approach is that it would logically need to be done for every image12:04
cjwatsonthe d-i image tree is big enough in the archive as it is :)12:04
fabbioneit's fair enough..12:04
fabbionei mean this is havey development anyway12:04
fabbionebut it will allow us to skip one/two steps with manual builds of d-i12:05
tkamppeterAny Launchpad expert around?12:05
tkamppeterHow can I remove dependencies between blueprints?12:06
cjwatsonfabbione: ok, debian-installer 20070308ubuntu8 should publish kernel and initrd for sparc64 netboot separately, assuming it builds :)12:06
fabbionecjwatson: eheh thanks man12:07
cjwatsontkamppeter: go to the depending spec, "Remove dependency" in the menu on the left12:07
tkamppeterThanks, I succeeded now to remove the printerdrake dependency from easy setup of printer sharing (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/printer-sharing). I did not find this in the first place as I tried to remove a dependency from printer auto-install (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/automatic-printer-conf) which was assigned to pitti and therefore did not offer the function to me.12:12
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cjwatsontkamppeter: ah, that's true, there may well be access control12:18
sorenpitti: *sigh* You remember when we were going through one of the postinst scripts for one of the eBox modules and found that yucky "killall gconfd-2"? I've found out why it was there now.12:22
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pittisoren: I remember, yes12:23
sorenpitti: gconfd-2 seems to not handle SIGHUP (which tells it to load new schemas) when it receives the signal, but rather at its next periodic cleanup run which may be up to 30 seconds later.12:24
pittisoren: that seems to be a generic problem; shouldn't update-gconf-defaults handle that rather?12:24
sorenpitti: And hence the rest of the postinst script will fail if there was already a gconfd-2 running.12:25
sorenpitti: update-gconf-defaults?12:25
pittisoren: that seems really mad -- why does the postinst care about user processes?12:25
sorenpitti: How does that differ from setting the values in a schema?12:25
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pittisoren: u-g-d regenerates /var/lib/gconf/defaults/ which is necessary for new schemas anyway (handled by dh_gconf)12:26
sorenpitti: Becase it installs the new schema and then tells ebox to load the corresponding module, but because gconfd-2 hasn't been bothered to load the schema yet, ebox doesn't know about the module's existence.12:26
ograsoren, killall gconfd-2 was usual behavior once12:26
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sorenogra: eek.12:26
pittisoren: but that should only affect root's gconfd, not everyones12:27
sorenpitti: ebox's gconfd-2, actually, but yes.12:27
ograwell there was a system gconfd back then iirc12:27
pittisoren: u-g-d does kill -HUP gconfd-2 already12:27
sorenpitti: I've asked the ubuntu-desktop team for advice.12:27
pittisoren: that might be better, yes; thank you!12:27
sorenpitti: I just wanted to share my frustration :)12:27
pittiso if that's wrong or not sufficient, it shuold be changed to s/HUP/TERM/ or so12:28
ograsoren, do you want to override system defaults ?12:28
pittisoren: :)12:28
sorenogra: These settings are only relevant to ebox anyway.12:28
ograyou can just put a file into /usr/share/gconf/defaults/12:28
ograno need to fiddle with gconfd at all ;)12:28
wolfeI love when people don't understand the bug fix process at all and blast away at people12:29
ograsequence umbers higher than 10 override system settings12:29
ogra(have a look in that dir)12:29
wolfeI finally tested out the blasted python-fam :)12:29
wolfe=] 12:29
sorenogra: a) I want the schemas installed anyway, b) I suspect /usr/share/gconf/defaults/ has the same limitations (up to 30 second delays)?12:29
wolfeit works nicely.12:29
ograsoren, it should take effect immediately ...12:30
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ograbut to be honest i never tried that on the fly :)12:30
ograedubuntu-artwork and gnome-power-amanger use it for their defaults12:30
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ograbut they are installed by d-i/ubiquity12:30
sorenogra: It has the same problem.12:32
sorenogra: I also works by sending every running gconfd-2 a SIGHUP.12:33
ograthats the way used after killall was dropped iirc12:33
ograbut there is a debhelper for that afaik12:33
sorenogra: Yes.12:33
sorenogra: dh_gconf does the schema registration and defaults installation magic.12:34
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ograright, that was it12:36
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asacdoko: ?12:59
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dokoasac: ?01:00
wolfewin 301:05
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tkamppeterpitti, ping01:11
pittihi tkamppeter01:11
tkamppeterhi pitti01:11
tkamppeterYesterday at the meeting we decided on replacing gnome-cups-manager by system-config-printer.01:11
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tkamppeterNow I wanted to update the Blueprints, especially that some things are not dependent on printerdrake any more.01:12
fabbionelike... sddb01:12
tkamppeterI succeeded to remove the dependency in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/printer-sharing as this Blueprint is assigned to me.01:13
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tkamppeterBut I cannot remove it from https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/automatic-printer-conf as it is assigned to you, pitti.01:14
pittitkamppeter: I can remove it01:14
tkamppeterCan you remove the dependency on printerdrake there? Thanks.01:14
tkamppeterI have assigned bug 127120 to this Blueprint, as from the printer setup tool side the Blueprint needs to get this one fixed now.01:15
ubotuLaunchpad bug 127120 in system-config-printer "Add a command line option to run only the add-printer wizard with reduced interactivity" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12712001:15
tkamppeterThanks, pitti.01:15
tkamppeterBy the way, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/printer-sharing gets fixed by switching to system-config-printer.01:16
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tkamppeterpitti, I have already checked whether all features of the gnome-cups-manager are also in the system-config-printer and that is the case. So I think we should through the switch now and make s-c-p the default printer setup tool and take g-c-m out of the distro.01:18
pittitkamppeter: I'm still a bit wary; last time I saw s-c-p it had quite a complicated UI, too01:19
ScottKpitti: Thanks for the clamav.  The lifts a load from my mind.  Clamav on Dapper is still ancient, but it's the best we can do for the moment.01:19
ScottKpitti: I had been the one who subscribed ubuntu-archive for Bug #117623 - I've now added an explicit comment (the comment that suggests I do that in general is a good one).01:20
ubotuLaunchpad bug 117623 in feisty-backports "backport libfile-rsyncp-perl 0.68-1 to feisty" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11762301:20
ScottKThanks for all the backports today.01:21
pittiScottK: ah, I see; for later sync bugs I looked at the activity log and just assumed that you knew what you were doing :)01:21
ScottKOK.  I hope I do ;-)01:21
pittiScottK: done01:22
ScottKDunno if I'm up to know what I'm doing, but I think I'm being considerably less crackful than *-backports has in the past.01:22
ScottKI won't fixed one this week and said backports doesn't get you out of the SRU.  Go do an SRU first and then I'll approve a backport for the features ;-)01:23
ScottKThanks again.01:24
kagoutkamppeter, do you plan to quicly update s-c-p to 0.7.70 ?01:28
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tkamppeterpitti, I have checked through the current s-c-p and it does not look much more complicated than g-c-m. There are some smaller usability issues which I have reported as bugs, see bug 127071, bug 127072, bug 127074, bug 127079, bug 127119, bug 127120. They all can be implemented independently and with not to much coding.01:35
ubotuLaunchpad bug 127071 in system-config-printer "system-config-printer does not save options into .cups/lpoptions for unprivileged users" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12707101:35
ubotuLaunchpad bug 127072 in system-config-printer "system-config-printer asks for the print queue name before scanning for printers and selecting the printer model" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12707201:35
ubotuLaunchpad bug 127074 in system-config-printer "When system-config-printer lists an auto-detected network printer with IP, it does not fill the IP automatically into the appropriate field." [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12707401:35
ubotuLaunchpad bug 127079 in system-config-printer "system-config-printer should check whether a detected (or also manually entered) network printer works also via HPLIP" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12707901:35
ubotuLaunchpad bug 127119 in system-config-printer "Introduce printer renaming feature" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12711901:35
tkamppeterkagou, this is a good idea. Did you already have a look into 0.7.70?01:36
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tkamppeterubotu, you forgot bug 12712001:37
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tkamppeterbug 22222201:38
cjwatsontkamppeter: it may well be rate-limited01:38
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tkamppeterkagou, do you know where I can download the source tarball of s-c-p 0.7.70?01:46
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Mithrandirasac: how does the mobile browser look?01:50
tkamppeterkagou, I have found it on Tim Waugh's home page.01:52
asacMithrandir: i am on it :)01:54
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asacMithrandir: i migrated everything ... now i am doing a first package testbuild01:55
Mithrandirasac: ok, coolie. :-)01:55
Mithrandirasac: please keep me posted as to how it's going.01:55
asacMithrandir: where shall I push the ubuntu bzr branch01:56
asace.g.  i guess to mobile team and not to core-dev right?01:56
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asacMithrandir: please add me to mobile team if you want the package branch maintained in the mobile team realm.01:57
Mithrandiryou're maintaining it in git, not bzr, don't you?01:57
asacthe packaging is in bzr ... like the firefox packaging01:58
asace.g. just debian/ dirt01:58
asaci produce the orig.tar.gz from git repo ... yes01:58
Mithrandirah, ok01:58
Mithrandirwhat's your lpid?01:58
asacguess :)01:59
asacthats the firefox branch i base on01:59
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asacMithrandir: ok i will add a new project called midbrowser in lp .... and push the packagin to mobile team02:00
Mithrandirasac: sounds good.02:01
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loolAnyone seen Scott James Remnant?02:12
loolHe's welcome to join the AB meeting on first floor at GUADEC02:12
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jwendellHi, Hobbsee02:19
jwendellfirst, congrats for tribe 3 ;)02:20
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with gutsy; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty, #ubuntu+1 for gutsy support | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | TRIBE 3 RELEASED! \o/
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by Hobbsee at Thu Jul 19 17:52:42 2007
Nafallohmm. 4.5GB02:23
ograsoren, is it clear that ebox will enter main for gutsy ?02:23
Nafallobaah. I'll clean up some space for them :-P02:24
pittiit needs uservification first02:24
=== Hobbsee hugs ogra
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ograHobbsee, hey :)02:24
ograHobbsee, congrats for your first RM job, well done :)02:24
Hobbseeogra: have you fixed the world yet?  :)02:24
Hobbseeogra: thankyou :)02:24
ogranope :)02:24
Hobbseeogra: it was certainly fun :)02:25
Hobbseeogra: hoping it wont be the last, but we'll see02:25
=== ogra agrees (seriously) thats the time i love most .... short before releases is even better :)
ogra(nobody understands me there :)02:26
Hobbseehaha.  i understand that :)02:26
ograits exciting and fun and you know it ends if youre done :)02:27
ogra(it == the stress)02:27
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Hobbseeogra: indeed!02:27
elkbuntuso has anyone installed from the muddled tribe cd successfully?02:28
Hobbseeogra: i'm surprised you werent asked to do the RM job, with that attitude, instead of pitti02:28
pittielkbuntu: actually, yes02:28
Hobbseeelkbuntu: hope so!02:28
elkbuntuhmm... me debates giving it a go02:29
ograHobbsee, i'm not as precise as pitti ... :)  i'd let slack more stuff thrugh ....02:29
ograi'm happy to do it for edubuntu ...02:30
ograand if i at some future day have extra time to spend on anythng else i'll probably go for it :)02:30
Hobbseebut the whole thing becomes a bigger kettle of fish, yes02:30
sorenogra: That's the plan, yes.02:31
ogracurrently edubuntu, ltsp and classmate are more than a fultime job ...02:31
ograsoren, i wonder if shorewall couldnt go then ;)02:31
sorenogra: I've never used shorewall, but I'd guess that it is a bit more flexible than ebox' firewall module. I could be wrong, though.02:32
ograi dont think its very flexible ... it ust has a webgui for iptables02:33
sorenogra: ebox provides are more digested view of a firewall. It only exposes a quite limited subset of iptables' functionality. (something like http://www.ebox-platform.com/shots/Global_firewall_configuration.png )02:36
ograah, standard DSL router stuff02:36
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Hobbseepitti: you havent noticed the restricted manager being gone in tribe 3, have you?02:38
Hobbseei thought it must be something here02:38
sorenogra: Yeah, much of ebox resembles stuff your garden variety DSL router might provide.02:39
=== ogra would love to see shorewall go ... but well
Chipzzogra: what's so bad about shorewall?02:42
Nafalloyes. please throw that fucking thing away and add firestarter to main instead :-)02:42
NafalloChipzz: gave me 2Mbit in on my 10Mbit ADSL02:42
Chipzzcrappy config then I guess02:44
ChipzzI use it in the datacenter02:44
Chipzzno problems with limited bandwidth :P02:44
Nafallohmm. I think iptables is easier to configure then shorewall anyway :-)02:44
ograNafallo, shorewall <-> firestarter .... two totaly different things :)02:44
Nafalloogra: it is?02:44
ograone is a portblocker, the other is a firewall02:44
Nafalloogra: I'm not sure I agree there. both are firewalls.02:45
Nafalloone of them with a gui.02:45
ograa firewall is a machine oarting two networks securely02:45
ografirwestarter is surely a portblocker to run on your desktop02:46
Nafalloa firewall might as well be a wall between inside and outside.02:46
ograeven some cool windows marketing people managd to mix the terms  ....02:46
kylem"packet filter"02:47
ograyeah, thanks02:47
ograport blocker sounds medical :)02:47
NafalloI still can't really see a big diffrence :-)02:47
Nafalloa port blocker is simply a wall between two places as well02:47
Nafallopacket filtering is more or less what a firewall does according to me :-)02:48
ograNafallo, if i build a firewall, i compile a monolithic kernel, dont have any useraccounts on te system and no packages installed beyond whats needed to run that thing02:49
Nafalloogra: when I build a firewall I don't do it the same way as you do ;-)02:49
ograpacket filters are only providing fake security02:49
NafalloI can't afford to have hardware running just for that.02:49
ograand are totally pointles on systems with no open ports like ubuntu02:50
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ograyou dont have an old 486 around ?02:50
Nafalloogra: my ubuntu systems often have open ports ;-)02:50
Nafalloogra: I have something called bills :-)02:50
ograbecause you wanted these open (i.e. because you installed a certain tool that opens them)02:50
Nafalloogra: yes, but not for everyone.02:51
ograwell, there a port mangler would make sense then ....02:51
ograbut callin it firewall is still a marketing lie ;)02:51
ograand comparing that to shorewall is simply not working :)02:52
\shpaketfilter != firewall...firewall==concept with several security systems attached02:52
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Nafalloor rather just call the rules I have a firewall, since that's what it essentially is even though it's not on a seperate system until I get virtualisation going :-)02:52
\shmoins ogra btw :)02:52
ograhey \sh02:52
ogradid you get the link i pasted you last time i pinged ?02:52
\shogra: which one? I don't think so...02:52
ogra\sh, they found marcel with cut throat four weeks ago02:53
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ograjsgotangco, my ex landlord (we moved a year ago)03:03
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pittiHobbsee: erm, no?03:05
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pittiHobbsee: darn, indeed03:06
asacMithrandir: "patch to prevent user prefs being reset to03:06
asacdefault during upgrade"03:06
Hobbseepitti: right03:06
asacMithrandir: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~asac/firefox/ubuntu-2.0.0.x/revision/asac%40jwsdot.com-20070720130359-cje0mzxhcr6ne9oj?start_revid=asac%40jwsdot.com-20070720130359-cje0mzxhcr6ne9oj03:06
asaci will update ffox as soon as midbrowser is up03:06
Hobbseepitti: want me to file a bug?  looks like you're the maintainer03:07
Hobbseelooks like it's in desktop, but not live.  but then, the seed-foo says that desktop is a dependancy of live, so that should be correct03:09
pittiHobbsee: aah, I know03:11
cjwatsonmaybe something to do with it being moved to restricted03:11
pittiHobbsee: ubuntu-desktop is in main, but restricted-manager is in restricted now03:11
cjwatsonthat is supposed to work though03:11
Mithrandirasac: thanks.03:11
Hobbseei was about to ask if the seeds supported restricted03:11
Mithrandirasac: please ask pitti to NEW midbrowser once it hits.03:12
cjwatsonthey're meant to03:12
=== cjwatson checks the build logs
cjwatsonpitti: I blame apt03:14
cjwatsonit lists restricted-manager under "Recommended packages:"03:14
Hobbseecjwatson: that's what it's supposed to be?03:15
pittihm, it is a recommends of u-d03:15
Hobbseeoh fuck.....03:15
Hobbseeno no no!!!!03:15
Hobbseedo we have *any* recommends installed by default now, since i changed the package?03:15
cjwatsonoh, hang on03:15
cjwatsonI bet it's actually a Soyuz bug - I don't see a Task header for restricted-manager03:15
Hobbseeoh good, not my fault then.03:16
Hobbseei did check for random breakages from my apt code changes, when it eventually got to work again.  maybe i'm just paranoid...03:16
cjwatsonyeah, Soyuz doesn't know how to set Task overrides outside main03:17
cjwatsonthis is going to be messy03:17
pittiputting it back to main would block evand and gobuntu, I think03:17
cjwatsoncould just symlink more-extra.override.gutsy.restricted to more-extra.override.gutsy.main03:17
pittiwell, r-m itself is as free as it can get, of course03:17
cjwatsonlet me do that after this publisher run is over and see what happens :-)03:18
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pitticjwatson: thanks a lot03:18
Hobbseecjwatson: great :03:18
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iwj/usr/bin/make -C /root/adt-downtmp/dsc0-build/dejagnu-1.4.4.cvs20060709/objdir check < /dev/tty03:51
pitticjwatson: hm, it should be over now; what needs to be done for that?03:56
cjwatsonpitti: I've done it, the next publisher run should pick it up03:56
cjwatsonwith luck03:56
pittiah, great03:56
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cjwatsonlp_archive@drescher:/srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-germinate$ join <(grep-dctrl -nsPackage -P '' gutsy_restricted_Packages | sort) <(egrep -v -- '^(-|Package| )' desktop | awk '{print $1}' | sort)03:59
cjwatsongood, only one package affected03:59
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pittiyay, we can finally sync bzr; thanks, Debian04:07
pittihi mathiaz04:07
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mathiazpitti: hi04:19
mathiazpitti: could we move apparmor into main ?04:19
pittimathiaz: right04:19
pittimathiaz: done04:20
pittimathiaz: except for -profiles04:20
pittioh, yay soyuz breakage04:20
Hobbseepitti: s/breakage/workage/04:20
Hobbseepitti: the statuses got swapped, because people thought it should work more often that it breaks :P04:21
pittino, change-override doesn't work any more for binaries04:21
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Hobbseeundocumented feature04:21
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pittimathiaz: so, -profiles is in main for now, we'll demote it again once change-override.py got fixed04:21
pittimathiaz: however, now we actually need to seed it somewhere so that it stays in main04:21
mathiazpitti: ok.04:22
pittimathiaz: ubuntu-standard Recommends:?04:22
mathiazpitti: seems good to me.04:22
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pittimathiaz: ok, doing04:22
mathiazpitti: where are the other package ? ubuntu-standard Recommends ?04:23
pittimathiaz: what do you mean?04:23
mathiazpitti: I mean apparmor-utils04:23
pittiah, right04:23
pittiI'll add that04:23
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mathiazpitti: IIRC apparmor-utils would be added to ubuntu-standard so that it gets installed by default but can be uninstalled by the user.04:24
pittiback in 2 minutes04:24
Nafallothat's recommends :-)04:25
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jdubcanonical folks handy?04:25
jdubcould someone call keybuk for me?04:26
Hobbseejdub: no, we shot them04:26
mjg59jdub: I have his number, if you don't?04:29
HobbseeRiddell: any idea why libgl1-mesa-dri isnt on the kubuntu cds?04:29
jdubmjg59: yeah, i think i have an old one04:29
Hobbseeditto edubuntu, xubuntu?04:29
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Hobbseeogra: ^04:30
pittihey jdub!04:31
Hobbseedirect rendering doesnt seem tow ork on some graphics cards without it.04:31
jdubyo pitti04:31
Riddelljdub: could do, what would i say?04:31
pittimathiaz: ok, -profiles is in universe now04:31
jdubthanks, sorting out with mjg5904:31
RiddellHobbsee: presumably nothing depends on it04:31
pittimathiaz: right04:31
HobbseeRiddell: i meant is there any ideological reason why we dont do it, apart from the obvious "because it's not in the seeds"04:32
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mathiazpitti: excellent ! Thank you.04:33
RiddellHobbsee: not from me04:33
HobbseeRiddell: what about for the other flavours?04:33
RiddellHobbsee: I can't think why there would be04:33
HobbseeRiddell: ok, will add to all04:33
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mathiazpitti: when will this change be reflected on the archive ?04:34
RiddellHobbsee: why do we need it?04:34
pittimathiaz: after next publisher run, thus in about 1:10 hours04:34
pittimathiaz: -profiles is still in main (still soyuz bug), FYI04:34
HobbseeRiddell:  3d for free HW.04:34
RiddellHobbsee: have you checked with bryce?04:35
Hobbseenot yet04:35
HobbseeRiddell: it was on the ubuntu cds before04:35
Hobbsee[00:35]  [Whois]  bryce has been idle for 14 hours, 13 minutes, and 38 seconds.04:35
Riddellidle boy :)04:35
StevenKpitti: Do you have a problem NEW'ing something if only i386 has built?04:36
mathiazpitti: ok. Is there anything else that needs to be done so that apparmor is included on the cds ?04:36
pittimathiaz: I need to rebuild ubuntu-meta, doing that now04:36
pittimathiaz: seed change committed04:36
pittiStevenK: we usually don't do it04:37
StevenKpitti: That's okay. Do you mind keeping an eye out for the rest of ode to hit NEW and accepting it, so I can deal with it's NBS relatives over the weekend?04:38
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pittiStevenK: ok04:38
StevenKpitti: Thanks. :-)04:39
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pittiam I the only one who gets a lot of timeouts on LP?04:47
StevenKI'm getting "Launchpad is offline" sporiadically, but not timeouts04:48
xxxxx1pitti, nope04:48
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xxxxx1since yesterday04:48
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pittimathiaz: ubuntu-meta uploaded with apparmor-utils love04:57
pitticjwatson: hmm, "apt-cache show restricted-manager|grep Task:" is still empty :/04:58
mathiazpitti: excellent. Thanks. :)04:58
cjwatsonpitti: yes, cron.germinate crashed because I screwed up04:59
cjwatsonpitti: and in any event it takes two publisher runs for that sort of thing to land04:59
pittiah, ok04:59
cjwatsoncron.germinate runs at the end of cron.daily, and the resulting extra overrides are applied by the next cron.daily04:59
cjwatsonbit of a kludge04:59
pittiStevenK: ode doesn't seem to be in NEW, it went straight in05:00
StevenKpitti: Not even libode0debian1 or libode-doc05:01
StevenKI meant binary NEW, sorry, I should have said.05:01
pittiStevenK: ah, wait, that was semi-auto-NEWed05:01
pittiStevenK: since it comes straight from Debian05:01
StevenKSemi-auto-NEW'd? :-)05:02
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pittiStevenK: I have a hackish script with generates overrides for packages that we sync from Debian05:03
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StevenKpitti: Ahh05:03
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asacpitti: can you look at midbrowser in NEW ?05:06
TeTeThow can I add a debootstrap script/target for gutsy on a feisty machine?05:08
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TeTeTsorry, wrong channel, disregard05:10
cjwatsonTeTeT: feisty-backports, HTH05:11
Hobbsee\sh: ping05:15
\shHobbsee: pong05:15
Hobbsee\sh: what's a nozumi device?05:15
Hobbseesorry, nozomi05:15
\shnozomi devices are umts cards e.g. from qualcom...especially highspeed utms cards..which are not handled by usb-serial05:16
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\shHobbsee: http://www.pharscape.org/content/blogsection/4/53/05:16
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\shHobbsee: it's in ubuntu since feisty...and I think feisty was the first distro release with nozomi devices in...kppp patch was provided by me, included by riddell..05:18
Hobbsee\sh: i see that, that's how i found you to poke :)05:19
\shso nothing new ;)05:19
Hobbseeno, no. just asking debian if theyu want it05:19
Hobbseeas it doesnt look distro-specific05:20
\shHobbsee: afaik are those drivers not included in vanilla...the last time I checked (vanilla I didn't see any config item for it05:21
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\shoff for now...cu next week :)05:26
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pittiasac: looking05:48
pittiasac: oh, noes! yet another copy of mozilla??05:49
Hobbseepitti: they're spawning, taking over the world!05:49
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pittiasac: why does it contain a copy of cdbs-rules/debhelper.mk?05:50
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pittiasac: just thinking... firefox and midbrowser seem to be 99% identical (mostly branding changes); would it be possible to build both firefox and midbrowser from the same source, with two build trees?05:57
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asacpitti: no05:59
asacpitti: we have to live with mozilla copies till we can use xulrunner06:00
asacpitti: currently its still pretty identical, but its a complete new "project" within the mozilla tree06:00
asacand will diverge significantly on the mid-/long-run06:00
pittiasac: why does upstream go through all this pain?06:00
asacpitti: we are upstream :)06:01
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pittiI mean, wouldn't it be much more sensible to factorize out the common bits and just build different UIs on top of it?06:01
pittior use --configure options?06:01
pittiand keep just one tree?06:01
Burgundaviaisn't that what xulrunner is supposed to be?06:01
asacpitti: yes we could do that for all applications that are in upstream CVS06:01
asachowever since security updates of different apps are out of sync we would get more frequent updates for all applications06:02
pittiBurgundavia: yeah, that's a major part, I think06:02
pittiasac: I don't understand?06:02
pittiasac: with diverging copies of trees it certainly gets harder to maintain them also security-wise, not easier?06:03
asacpitti: we can ship a source tarball with MOZ_CO_PROECJT=browser,mail,mailnews,calendar,xulrunner :)06:03
asace.g. one huge tarball ... and compile it multiple times06:03
pittiright, that's what I meant06:03
asacthats what i understood as your idea06:03
pittiwell, not much huger as they currently are06:03
asacyes ... but now mail,calendar et al don't release in sync06:04
asacfor instance thunderbird was released today with a few more checkins then were in when firefox was tagged06:04
pittiasac: what I meant was to have one mozilla.tar.bz2 as source package which is multibuilt once with configure --firefox and once with configure --midbrowser06:04
asacyes ... but we would have to update the mozilla.tar.bzw whenever a midbrowser release comes out ... same for firefox release.06:05
pittiand keep the differences as patches, or #ifdefs, or separate modules/UIs06:05
pittisince 90% of the code will certainly stay identical anyway (like gecko)06:05
asacpitti: we develop a new upstream project06:06
ion_Is midbrowser the same thing as minimo?06:06
asacits not minimo ... but its equivalent06:06
asacpitti: in short: we cannot do it for the same reasons we cannot release thunderbird and firefox from one source tarball06:06
pittiwell, I understand that tbird and ffox are not in sync06:07
ion_I dont seem to be able to find almost any information about midbrowser by googling.06:07
asacion_: its new :)06:07
pittibut why midbrowser and ffox? it's both a browser which is based on the same code and engine?06:07
pittireally, I'm fine with having 10 copies of mozilla code in universe, but moving them to main is just pretty much out of the question06:09
pitti(not that fine actually, but I can live with it)06:09
asacas i said ... atm we are pretty close to firefox ... when we are done with midbrowser we will be almost as far away as tbird06:09
pittiright, I didn't doubt that06:09
pittibut why make the same error again?06:09
asacbecause the same reasons apply06:09
pittiinstead of keeping it modular or at least #ifdef'ed right from the start?06:09
asaci don't want to loose the flexibility to release out of sync06:09
asacpitti: tbird, firefox, midbrowser are already ifdef'ed properly06:10
asacthat was never the reason06:10
pittiasac: an extra no-change firefox build is a small price to pay compared to the large amount of developer effort to keep both trees in sync06:10
iwjIs there some document about ~ubuntu-main-sponsors that I'm missing, besides wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess ?  How do I claim a bug to say I'm dealing with it ?06:11
pittiiwj: just assign it to you06:11
iwjMany of these seem assigned to the submitters.06:11
pittiiwj: most bugs should already be assigned, though06:12
asacpitti: what large amount of developer effort?06:12
Hobbseeiwj: there's little documentation.  just assign yourself anyway, the submitters are incorrect06:12
asacpitti: only thing i see is diskspace06:12
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iwjHobbsee: So I can reassign if the submitter isn't a core-dev ?06:12
Hobbseeiwj: yep06:12
pittiasac: to maintain the tree copies istead of maintaining e. g. xulrunner and the separate frontends, or just changing particular modules in the One True Tree06:12
Hobbseeiwj: seeing as they obviously cant further action teh bug, as they cant upload it06:12
iwjRight.  IWBNI this was documented more clearly somewhere.06:13
asacpitti: nobody doubts that its the right way to not-duplicate code once we *can* use xulrunner ... i only say: for now it makes really no sense06:13
pittiasac: I still don't understand the reasons TBH06:14
pittiasac: if we have almost identical trees, then it's certainly much easier to start developing midbrowser within the main tree?06:14
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pittias opposed to, say, trying to reunite the trees for tbird and ffox, which already diverged a lot06:14
asacpitti: tbird and ffox have not diverged06:15
pittithey have separate origs, separate sources, separate release process  -- that's what I call 'diversion'06:15
pittibut, I understand the reason for that one06:16
pitti(well, it's not ideal either, a common library type of thing would be much better, but we can't have it right now)06:16
asacpitti: the only reason we don't build things out of a single source is that we duplicate binaries anyway ... and that it just removes flexibility ... but it doesn't give us any benefit06:16
asacto build from one source06:16
pittiasac: what's the problem with duplicated binaries? these aren't problematic at all06:16
pittiand of course we do want separate binaries06:17
asacpitti: we have to wait till firefox 306:17
pittiI'm talking about a 'single patch fixes all browsers' kind of optimization06:17
pittinot buildd time or so06:17
pittiasac: ok, I did the first round of review; the .dlls crept in again06:21
asacpitti: i will think about it06:21
asacpitti: they have never been out06:21
pittigotta leave now, I'll continue with the review on Monday06:21
asacexcept for iceape06:21
=== pitti files a tribe-4 bug
asacwe already have a bug for that06:22
asacits set to beta ... we repeat discussions06:22
pittihm, wasn't there one already?06:22
pittiah, ok06:22
pittiI don't reject it yet, I'll complete the review first06:22
pittito collect issues06:22
asacpitti: do a diff to the firefox orig06:23
asacthe rest is identical06:23
pittiasac: that won't help me much, since I (or anyone else) never reviewed firefox for source NEW :)06:23
asacthen have a nice weekend :)06:24
pittibut it'll probably take me some more hours06:24
pittineed to run now, sorry06:24
pittiasac: thanks, you too!06:24
asacno problem06:24
asacits nothing to hurry for me06:24
asacit was just Mithrandir who wanted that in asap06:24
pittisorry, but "ASAP" for 345 MB of code is just a while :)06:25
micahcowanBenC ping06:25
BenCmicahcowan: yo06:26
micahcowanBenC hi :)  ...did you see my recent update re the kernel patch I submitted some time ago (SIGXFSZ)?06:26
micahcowanIt's in 2.6 mainline now06:27
BenCmicahcowan: yeah, I got it06:27
micahcowanIs that enough to get it in for Gutsy, or do you want to see it in an official release?06:28
BenCmicahcowan: I'll evaluate it...probably can get it in, and just cherry pick from mainline06:29
micahcowanBenC, cool thanks06:29
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iwjHobbsee: So for example in bug 127121 what does Sebastian Droege's comment `ACK' mean ?06:34
ubotuLaunchpad bug 127121 in libdaemon "Please sync libdaemon (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12712106:34
iwjslomo: AYT?06:35
iwjslomo: What does your `ACK' in that bug mean ?06:35
Hobbseeiwj: means that he's approving the sync06:35
iwjI see.  That seems less than clear and he didn't assign it to himself ...06:35
Hobbseeiwj: but, he hasnt subscribed the archive06:35
Hobbseeiwj: please subscribe ubuntu-archive to that bug06:35
iwjAlso he has failed to subscribe ...06:35
Hobbseeslomo: please ensure that you actually subscribe ubuntu-archive to process sync bugs, else they'll never get found.06:36
Hobbseei believe you also subscribe u-m-s at that point06:36
iwjYM unsubscribe.06:36
iwjI would like to but I can't because I'm not a member of u-m-s yet :-).06:37
Hobbseeiwj: the processes are all a bit of a WIP.  it's only been happening since my motu app, and we've only gone to more formal processes recently, with more people06:37
iwjI think writing this all up on the wiki page would be very good.06:37
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iwjWould you like to do that since you seem to actually know the answers ? :-)06:37
Hobbseeiwj: not overly :P06:37
iwjOK, I'll hack something up and we'll see who complains.06:38
Hobbseeiwj: i'm just teh head of the universe one.  try getting persia to write it all up, as he's been doing it previously06:38
Hobbseeoh, i'm not a u-m-s person either06:38
=== iwj edits SponsorshipProcess.
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Hobbseeiwj: i could have - however, i do want to go to bed bfeore 3am.06:43
=== Hobbsee thinks lifeless is right.
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iwjYou're subscribed to SponsorshipProcess, right ?  Then you can read my edits in the morning.06:45
Hobbseeiwj: dont think so.  but i'll look at some point06:46
=== Hobbsee has relatives over soon, so....
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Hobbseecant do much ubuntu stuff this week, unfortunately06:46
Hobbseegood thing there's no tribe release :P06:46
elkbuntuHobbsee, you'll have to keep 'normal' hours too, i suppose :06:47
Hobbseeelkbuntu: yeah.  dunno what they are.06:48
Hobbseei'm going to die of horror, i swear...06:49
elkbuntuHobbsee, the shock. the horror!06:49
=== Hobbsee hasnt gone to bed before 11pm in a good couple of years....
elkbuntuheh. anyway, since it is approaching 3am. i might go reaquaint myself with my pillow. gnite06:52
Hobbseehehe, night06:54
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=== Hobbsee --> bed. night all!
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iwjdholbach: Ah, thank you :-).07:18
dholbachiwj: thank YOU! :)07:18
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dholbachiwj: I wrote a small script to generate an overview of the tracked sponsoring bugs at: http://daniel.holba.ch/sponsoring/07:19
dholbachiwj: it's by no means perfect yet and still has some bugs (which will be fixed in one of the next releases of python-launchpad-bugs), but I hope it'll help07:19
iwjShall I add a reference to that to wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess ?07:19
dholbachgood idea - I'll add it to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews07:20
dholbachannounce it and move it to people.ubuntu.com once I'm back from my holidays07:20
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jwendellkylem, around?07:27
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LaserJockanybody know if X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain is supposed to be set to the source or binary package?08:55
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LaserJockcjwatson: got a minute?09:03
HobbseeLaserJock: i think he's left for the day09:03
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LaserJockwhy don't people have the same TZ as me? ;-)09:04
calcbecause mine is the only correct one09:04
HobbseeTZ's suck09:04
Hobbseespeaking of bed, i'm going to actually attempt to sleep this time09:05
LaserJockHobbsee: do it!09:05
HobbseeLaserJock: well, i'm in bed now - is that close enough?09:05
LaserJockno, I know that trick09:05
jdongtake a laptop09:05
LaserJockyou gotta have the laptop off09:05
jdongand a plug...09:06
Hobbseeyou know the logic about having to write down a whole lot of stuff, else you keep thinking about it, and never get to sleep?09:06
Hobbseejdong: i have reasonable battery life...09:06
jdongHobbsee: oh that's even worse!09:06
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kevinl-1hey guys, i see that this isnt a support channel, so i apologize if i am asking in the wrong place, but I cannot get ahold of anyone who can help me in the #ubuntu channel, and Dennis Karrsmarker is apparently on leave from ubuntu (not that he wouldnt be too busy to help me anyhow)09:15
kevinl-1my issue is regarding usplash. I have been trying to compile it with a custom theme, and utilize it on an etch-based debian-live system (casper, etc)09:16
kevinl-1ive found however, that i have had very little success even compiling usplash/usplash-theme-ubuntu and getting it to work properly09:16
kevinl-1errors ranging from: unresolved symbol pixemap_throbber_back , to cannot open /deb/fb009:17
kevinl-1i once had it running on my live cd , but only is black and white with a screwed up progress bar09:17
kevinl-1id like to just base my theme directly off of usplash-theme-ubuntu, compile it all on etch and have it work09:17
kevinl-1but i wonder if there is a mismatch or difference in some of the dev libraries between etch and ubuntu that cause some weirdness.09:17
kevinl-1any help is appreciated, thanks09:18
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mathiazkeescook: Did you have to a chance to look at my new apparmor packages ?09:26
tormodIs there a defined policy or specification on what laptop-mode-tools and gnome-power-manager and acpid should do on laptops?09:28
keescookmathiaz: not yet, still feverishly trying to finish the ubuntulive presentation.  :)09:32
mathiazkeescook: ok. np.09:33
mathiazkeescook: pitti moved apparmor into main this morning09:33
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bryceI'm running into several packages named thusly:  libxext-1.0.3-1build109:36
bryceI'm wondering why 'build' instead of 'ubuntu'09:37
tormod... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLaptopPowerFeatures is pretty empty09:37
brycefrom an email from pitti I gather this is when there have been no changes to the package, however can someone point me at some docs explaining this more completely?09:37
bryceI've got half a dozen packages named this way and I want to be sure when merging that I name them correctly.09:38
LaserJockbryce:  a build1 is for packages that just need a rebuild09:39
LaserJockthe source isn't touched09:39
LaserJockso that when we auto-sync from Debian they get synced automatically rather than put in the merge queue09:40
bryceah, ok09:40
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wolfekylem: is that the answer to the universe?10:50
Whelpoisn't that 42?10:51
jdongWhelpo: not after yesterday's security patches.10:55
Whelpowhat do yesterday's security patches have to do with the answer to the universe?10:56
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jdongWhelpo: they found a buffer overflow with the universe in the 42 accessor...11:06
jdongWhelpo: they tried the 43 accessor but it had shell escape issues...11:06
jdonghence it's 44 now.11:06
jdongif apparmor profiles for the universe start working properly, then we may revert back to 42 for compatibility reasons11:07
kevinl-1what run level is executed when the system is shutdown or rebooted? 0 ? S ?11:09
kevinl-1oops, wrong channel :)11:09
kevinl-1im sure you guys know though!11:09
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geserHi LaserJock11:12
LaserJockhi geser11:12
jdongkevinl-1: 0 for shutdown 6 for reboot11:12
jdongS is basic startup11:12
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bdmurrayHas seamonkey ever been packaged?11:20
geser!info iceape11:24
ubotuPackage iceape does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas11:24
geser!info iceape gutsy11:24
ubotuiceape: The Iceape Internet Suite. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1.1+u2-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 28 kB, installed size 84 kB11:24
geserit's in gutsy11:24
LaserJockjdong: that reminds me, is it possible to backport emacs22?11:25
bdmurraySomebody submitted a bug report about seamonkey in Edgy.  I was trying to figure out if we shipped it or not.11:25
jdong*shrug* there goes nothing :D11:25
jdongLaserJock: good question :)11:26
jdongLaserJock: if it builds then sure11:26
geserbdmurray: edgy should have the old mozilla suite, but I wouldn't suggest someone to install it11:26
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keescookevand: do you know of a way to import .ics files into evolution from the commandline?11:42
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=== evand uses mutt
=== evand off to VA for the weekend. Enjoy your weekend, everyone.
keescookright, someone sent me an ics file, and I want through throw it at the evolution calendar.  :)11:43
Burgundaviakeescook: get the one off the fridge11:43
evandoh, right, calendar11:43
evandno idea11:43
keescookBurgundavia: ?11:44
Burgundaviafridge has a calendar of events11:44
keescookBurgundavia: right, I use that.  I want to take an ics file someone sent me and import it from the command line (i.e. an automatic way to import meeting requests I get from other ics-capable clients) via mutt11:45
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