[12:25] <stgraber> mathiaz: thanks for the list, I'll assign them right now
[12:25] <mathiaz> stgraber: thanks
[12:26] <mathiaz> stgraber: is there any admin interface ?
[12:31] <stgraber> mathiaz: not yet
[01:00] <tormod> mjg59: can you please review the patch in bug #127276 ?
[01:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127276 in laptop-mode-tools "laptop-mode init script links not created (dup-of: 127273)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127276
[01:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127273 in laptop-mode-tools "laptop-mode init script links not created" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127273
[01:03] <mjg59> laptop-mode is going away
[01:04] <tormod> mjg59: good to know!
[01:05] <tormod> mjg59: do  you think the patch would be valid for those using laptop-mode in Feisty?
[01:05] <mjg59> laptop-mode is an error
[01:06] <tormod> it slipped into Feisty though...
[01:10] <mjg59> Oh, and various earlier releases
[01:10] <mjg59> The best we can hope for is that it never manages to turn itself on
[01:11] <tormod> It's default off in /etc/default so that should be no problem.
[01:12] <persia> Is laptop-mode-tools also scheduled for removal?  Is it now replaced by ubuntu-laptop-mode?
[01:12] <tormod> Will it be demoted into Universe? In which case it should be patched.
[01:13] <mjg59> Yeah, that's the plan
[07:25] <thunderbolt> Hmm... I remember there was some discussion on the wiki at one time about putting the /etc/ folder (and potentially others) under revision control, either bzr or svn. I've found a userspace filesystem, called wayback, that allows for keeping a history of files... Does anyone else think that this may be a good idea, assuming that someone [me]  can implement it?
[07:26] <jdong> thunderbolt: I've played with versioning the entire /etc with bzr
[07:26] <jdong> it worked marginally except for some permissions mishandling sometimes
[07:26] <thunderbolt> jdong: worked marginally?
[07:27] <jdong> I find it smarter to selectively version things
[07:27] <jdong> thunderbolt: yeah...
[07:27] <jdong> thunderbolt: bzr and svn both create dot directories
[07:27] <jdong> like .bzr or .svn
[07:27] <thunderbolt> Ah.
[07:27] <jdong> and some scripts go BALLISTIC over that
[07:27] <thunderbolt> Yes, that's right.
[07:27] <jdong> and not just that...
[07:27] <jdong> sometimes when reverting, things go back with wrong permissions
[07:27] <thunderbolt> Eep.
[07:27] <jdong> yeah...
[07:27] <thunderbolt> That's really not good.
[07:27] <jdong> it did get a bit nasty
[07:27] <jdong> but I do it for some specific things
[07:28] <jdong> like my /etc/acpi is under bzr
[07:28] <jdong> because I find myself hacking my acpi-support a lot
[07:28] <jdong> and it doesn't seem to get bothered by .bzr
[07:28] <thunderbolt> Cool.
[07:28] <jdong> apache's a good choice too
[07:28] <jdong> basically anything that took time for you to write, and you continue to tweak :)
[07:28] <jdong> don't version the entire /etc
[07:29] <jdong> because you have to deal with things like /etc/gconf
[07:29] <jdong> which seem to change with every other package upgrade :D
[07:29] <thunderbolt> Hehe
[07:29] <thunderbolt> The other feature I was looking into was something like VMS's holding history of files, for like a users home directory.
[07:30] <jdong> ah
[07:30] <jdong> I think some LVM-ish snapshot magic is probably your best bet for that
[07:30] <thunderbolt> LVM?
[07:30] <jdong> Logical Volume Manager
[07:30] <thunderbolt> Ah
[07:30] <jdong> amongst other things, it allows you to take snapshots of devices
[07:31] <jdong> and they only take up space as content diverges
[07:31] <jdong> so you can basically snapshot your /home every night
[07:31] <jdong> and save those snapshots
[07:31] <jdong> and purge 30-day-old snapshots...
[07:31] <thunderbolt> Right.
[07:31] <jdong> to maintain reasonable space
[07:31] <jdong> then you can at least recover 30 days back should your users request it
[07:32] <thunderbolt> I still think it would be nice to have a backup, at least for a while, whenever a file is saved, but I guessed that's handled by application level undo, right?
[07:33] <jdong> right
[07:33] <jdong> I've seen some userland filesystem overlays that promise these kinds of features
[07:33] <jdong> but remember that those things probably make you worse off anyway
[07:33] <jdong> just because they haven't had rugged testing
[07:33] <thunderbolt> Yeah, that was my concern. I've looked at FUSE and Wayback, which is built on FUSE.
[07:33] <jdong> it'd be a really awful twist of fate if your backup mechanism caused data loss :D
[07:34] <thunderbolt> Yes, definitely.
[07:36] <thunderbolt> Hmm, one of those nice things to have if we had infinite resources and time, right?
[07:38] <jdong> yeah, certainly :)
[07:38] <jdong> backup solutions are tough... very few resources on how to do it properly
[07:38] <jdong> and one of the sketchiest things to experiment with :)
[07:39] <jdong> as I said before, I'd recommend version control for /etc and investigating LVM snapshots for /home
[07:39] <thunderbolt> Thanks a ton, jdong!
[07:39] <jdong> no prob
[07:40] <thunderbolt> Currently I'm using backuppc for my users home directories, it's kind like the snapshots, but uses rsync.
[07:41] <jdong> right
[07:41] <jdong> that works too
[07:41] <jdong> but it tends to have higher overhead
[07:42] <jdong> i.e. slower to run, takes up more space
[07:42] <thunderbolt> Yeah, definitely, I also use it to backup some windows PCs.
[07:42] <jdong> yeah, that's the advantage of a FS-level backup
[07:42] <thunderbolt> I also didn't know about LVM until you told me about it :)
[09:44] <siretart> asac: can you please have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/112818,
[09:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 112818 in firefox "wrong pkgconfig dependencies break builds" [High,Confirmed] 
[10:01] <asac> siretart: yes firefox-nspr and firefox-nss.pc should become links to nspr.pc and nss.pc
[10:02] <asac> ... or should be completely dropped
[10:29] <blowfish> hi
[01:16] <wattazoum> hi
[01:17] <wattazoum> need a little help on a very basic question : is there a way, in python, looking at a directory, to see if a file inside has changed ?
[01:18] <Spads> well that's OS dependent
[01:18] <RAOF> wattazoum: Yes, but this isn't the place to ask :)
[01:19] <wattazoum> I used "lstat()" and looked at st_mtime but it seems this doesn't change
[01:19] <Spads> but in the os module you should be able to do a stat on all files and grab the mtime
[01:19] <Spads> oh wow, totally not the channel I thought i was in
[01:19] <wattazoum> RAOF :  in which place should I ?
[01:20] <Spads> wattazoum: try #python
[01:20] <RAOF> wattazoum: Well, possibly ##python?
[01:20] <wattazoum> #python
[01:20] <wattazoum> I can't go there ( I lost my nickname password and can't identify :'( )
[01:20] <RAOF> wattazoum: For an Ubuntu responce, check out the source of Specto, which has a file/folder watch
[01:20] <wattazoum> RAOF : Cool
[01:21] <wattazoum> i'll lok at it
[01:21] <wattazoum> look
[01:21] <RAOF> NP
[01:21] <_wattazoum_> Thank you very much
[01:36] <_wattazoum_> RAOF : just for info, I have looked at the specto code and it does exactely what I would have liked to avoid. watching every last file inside
[01:36] <_wattazoum_> I guess I have no choice then
[01:36] <_wattazoum_> :)
[01:37] <RAOF> If you only care about notifications when your program is running, and don't mind being linux-only, inotify is really easy in python.
[01:41] <_wattazoum_> well, I actuallly use it :-) , It was just for a matter of performance ( I am developing a backup software and this was to check if I could skip the whole dir when it didn't changed ) .
[01:41] <_wattazoum_> yep I don't care being linux-only :)
[05:19] <jdub> canonical folks handy?
[05:19] <Hobbsee> all eaten.
[05:19] <jdub> not useful, need help
[05:20] <Hobbsee> jdub: seriously though, it's the weekend.  and ubuntulive
[05:21] <jdub> and my plane has been delayed, and i need to get a message through
[05:21] <Hobbsee> who to?
[05:21] <jdub> a canonical person on uk time
[05:22] <jdub> if there were one here a momeont ago, you could mention their nick instead of drilling me qith questions
[05:22] <Hobbsee> jdub: havent seen any here in hours, to be honest.  :(
[05:22] <StevenK> jdub: The only one I've seen that that is likely is Spads, and he last spoke over 5 hours ago
[05:22] <jdub> StevenK: thanks
[05:53] <AlinuxOS> doko, hello ;)
[08:29] <Kmos> LP is back
[10:30] <jdong> urgh, fglrx performance has definitely regressed on gutsy
[10:30] <jdong> what a surprise :)
[10:31] <Kmos> jdong: backport ddclient in gutsy to feisty
[10:31] <Kmos> thx
[10:31] <ScottK> jdong: About iceape, whatever floats your boat.
[10:31] <jdong> Kmos: you do it :P
[10:31] <jdong> lol
[10:31] <Kmos> :)
[10:31] <jdong> what's ddclient
[10:31] <jdong> a dyndns thing?
[10:31] <Kmos> yes
[10:31] <Kmos> u've done the last backport
[10:31] <Kmos> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ddclient
[10:32] <jdong> http://sharkattack.media.mit.edu/inventory/check_builds/28
[10:32] <jdong> ok, building
[10:33] <Kmos> jdong: that was fast :) thanks
[10:33] <ScottK> jdong: One thing I've been thinking about for Dapper is if we could backport dpkg from Edgy to Dapper we could save a LOT of source backports.
[10:33] <jdong> ScottK: is that remotely safe?
[10:33] <ScottK> jdong: I have no idea.
[10:33] <ScottK> I think it needs some discussion.
[10:34] <jdong> ScottK: I'd be willing to do it if it were safe
[10:34] <Kmos> jdong: SUCCESS
[10:34] <Kmos> :)
[10:34] <jdong> Kmos: cool
[10:35] <jdong> Kmos: can you test the packages?
[10:35] <jdong> IIRC it ships with an init script which could've changed
[10:35] <ScottK> jdong: I think we need to discuss it with some of the core developers during the week.
[10:35] <Kmos> it should work fine
[10:35] <Kmos> but i can test it
[10:35] <jdong> Kmos: I don't like hearing should :)
[10:35] <ScottK> should != does
[10:35] <Kmos> i've running the gutsy version on my feisty
[10:35] <Kmos> with no problems
[10:35] <Kmos> that's enough ? :)
[10:36] <jdong> Kmos: ok good enough...
[10:36] <Kmos> :)
[10:37] <Kmos> jdong: thx
[10:38] <jdong> Kmos: bug 127430
[10:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127430 in feisty-backports "backport ddclient" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127430
[10:38] <Kmos> jdong: nice :)
[10:39] <Kmos> thanks
[10:39] <jdong> yay sharkattack :)
[10:41] <Kmos> i assigned the bug to you
[10:41] <Kmos> no problem ?
[10:41] <jdong> no need to assign
[10:41] <jdong> it's done
[10:41] <Kmos> :)
[10:41] <jdong> archive admins are subscribed
[10:41] <Kmos> yeah
[10:41] <Kmos> but you do the work :P
[10:46] <Kmos> jdong: http://sharkattack.media.mit.edu/inventory/view_log/32
[10:46] <jdong> mmm?
[10:47] <Kmos> firefox grandparadiso
[10:47] <jdong> yeah
[10:47] <jdong> it builds properly
[10:47] <jdong> but takes a few hours
[10:47] <Kmos> it was 0 in # builds
[10:47] <jdong> right
[10:47] <Kmos> i clicked in queue
[10:47] <jdong> I purged out stale builds last night
[10:47] <Kmos> :)
[10:47] <jdong> I restarted the builder during testing while it was building
[10:48] <Kmos> ah, that's the problem
[10:48] <jdong> that builder really needs some ionice loving
[10:49] <Kmos> pkg-source: applying ./firefox-granparadiso_3.0~alpha5-0ubuntu2.diff.gz
[10:49] <Kmos> Fetched 34.5MB in 23s (1475kB/s)
[10:49] <Kmos> cat: write error: Broken pipe
[10:49] <Kmos> cat: write error: Broken pipe
[10:49] <Kmos> cat: write error: Broken pipe
[10:49] <Kmos> cat: write error: Broken pipe
[10:49] <Kmos> cat: write error: Broken pipe
[10:49] <jdong> that's normal
[10:49] <Kmos> dch warning: new version (3.0~alpha5-0ubuntu2~7.04prevu1) is less than
[10:49] <Kmos> the current version number (3.0~alpha5-0ubuntu2).
[10:49] <Kmos> ah ok
[10:49] <jdong> stop pasting that :)
[10:49] <Kmos> ok
[10:49] <jdong> the way it grabs version numbers from the changelog
[10:49] <jdong> it closes stdout before cat is done
[10:50] <Kmos> :)
[10:50] <jdong> yay to hackish code :)
[11:12] <a-865> can gutsy be installed to a partition above #15 ?
[11:23] <a-865> The ext3 filesystem creation in partition #19 of SCSI1 (0,0,0) failed.