[02:22] <keescook> jdub: /msg me if you still need to get a message through to canonical folks
[02:45] <mercurysquad> hi everyone, I'm trying to register a new spec but I keep getting a "Oops"
[02:46] <mercurysquad> is this temporary or do I need some privileges to be able to register a spec ?
[02:47] <cypherbios> mercurysquad: Most likely temporary, but if you want you can file a bug against Launchpad or bug them on #launchpad :)
[02:47] <mercurysquad> hmm I'll try again later, thanks!  the wiki page is already written, just have to register it in launchpad
[03:37] <manchicken> Any of the debtags folks around?
[03:43] <MichealxRock> hello.
[03:44] <MichealxRock> I am making somthing in Blender, and I need a suggested chatroom. I'm 12. and I am trying to get some questions answerd on a #D firt person shooter I am making
[03:45] <chowmeined> #blender
[04:35] <jdub> keescook: still there?
[04:44] <Hobbsee> morning all
[04:45] <ScottK> Good morning Hobbsee.
[04:55] <wasabi> good howdy
[05:01] <Hobbsee> ScottK, wasabi :)
[07:39] <BirthdayHobbsee> uh...no one's related anything that would break adept, would they?  i cant see anything likely looking on gutsy-changes
[07:50] <BirthdayHobbsee> enrico: ping
[07:50] <minghua> libept breaking adept?
[07:51] <BirthdayHobbsee> yeah, i've found it
[07:52] <BirthdayHobbsee> i'm now pondering whether we should update the version of debtags - we reverted back to the old lot for t2, as a workaround.
[07:52] <BirthdayHobbsee> because our libept wasnt ported, iirc
[07:52] <BirthdayHobbsee> ah, wait, we have actually gone to the new debtags now
[07:57] <BirthdayHobbsee> cool :)
[07:57] <BirthdayHobbsee> then unping enrico
[08:10] <BirthdayHobbsee> pity it's sunday
[08:55] <TheMuso> BirthdayHobbsee: Its your birthday? If so, happy birthday then.
[08:55] <BirthdayHobbsee> TheMuso: nope, i'm just doing this to throw people :P
[08:59] <jetscreamer> happy non-birthday
[09:00] <BirthdayHobbsee> :P
[09:36] <elkbuntu> oh cute. i wonder if that was why i wasnt getting any updates... main, universe, restricted and multiverse are all unchecked in the 'software sources' dialog after a dist-upgrade
[10:32] <minghua> elkbuntu: Won't all installed packages be labeled as "untrusted" then?
[10:35] <hunger> I get lots of "hub 1-0:1.0: over-current change on port 2" messages in the kernel's log nowadays. Any idea what might be wrong? Should I write a bugreport about it?
[10:36] <hunger> Lots as in 1 every second or so.
[10:37] <hunger> Going up to 8 per sec. at times.
[12:27] <jwendell> Hi, pitty
[12:27] <jwendell> around?
[12:27] <jwendell> pitti ^
[01:10] <StevenK> pitti: I have an evil plan in progress, and it isn't NBS!
[01:11] <pitti> StevenK: oh?
[01:13] <StevenK> pitti: Yes. I have designs on booting yada out of main like the bitch that it is...
[01:13] <pitti> StevenK: yay!
[01:14] <StevenK> pitti: The diffs end up looking a little large, though.
[01:14] <StevenK> pitti: I will be submitting patches to the Debian BTS, so, here's hoping ...
[01:15] <pitti> StevenK: I guess you turned the build systems upside down? :)
[01:16] <StevenK> Let's say I prefer a readable 18 line debian/rules using CDBS than an unreadable 300 line mess that uses yada.
[01:17] <thom> StevenK: i nearly agree that using cdbs rather than yada is an improvement
[01:17] <thom> but they're both unreadable
[01:17] <pitti> StevenK: *wholeheartedly agree* :)
[01:17] <StevenK> thom: Shall I paste examples? *evil grin*
[01:18] <StevenK> pitti: Well, I did have a question, which was, can we deal with a large diff if it helps us get rid of yada?
[01:18] <pitti> StevenK: depends on whether it'll eventually go into Debian, whether the Debian package changes very often (so that we have to constantly reflect the changes), etc.
[01:19] <pitti> StevenK: it's three pacakges AFAICS: libapache2-mod-auth-{plain,pam}, libnss-db
[01:19] <StevenK> I doubt they change very often, and as I said, I'll be submitting patches along the lines of "yada is a *pox*"
[01:20] <StevenK> pitti: *nods*, I have a list for main and universe.
[01:20] <broonie> People have been muttering about doing the same thing in Debian.
[01:21] <StevenK> vorlon mentioned the death of yada was an unoffical lenny release goal .... :-)
[01:21] <thom> the apache modules look pretty irrelevant anyway right now
[01:21] <thom> neither will work with apache 2.2
[01:21] <pitti> thom: oh, so we should demote them then?
[01:21] <StevenK> And yet they {Build-,}Depends on it
[01:22] <StevenK> If you demote it, I'll look at ripping yada off of libnss-db.
[01:22] <StevenK> s/it/them/
[01:23] <StevenK> Since my first step was getting yada out of main.
[01:23] <StevenK> Since when does perl need to be listed in Build-Depends ...
[01:23] <thom> someone seems to have blindly NMU'd them with a changed dep, but no actual changes
[01:24] <pitti> thom: is that known/handled in Debian?
[01:24] <thom> the authn/z system in 2.2 is totally different to 2.0
[01:24] <pitti> StevenK: perl-base is essential, but not perl
[01:24] <thom> pitti: there're certainly bugs filed
[01:24] <geser> btw apache2: the last upload to debian fixed two CVEs. Is it ok to sync it as this upload also split the default configuration into several files?
[01:24] <StevenK> pitti: Ah. Point.
[01:25] <thom> geser: they're reasonably trivial changes tbf
[01:25] <StevenK> pitti: Yeah, 184 packages in main Build-Depends on perl, so it stays. :-)
[01:27] <thom> StevenK: why not just repackage from scratch?
[01:27] <geser> thom: I've read "This version introduces some changes in the configration layout and defaults. You will probably have to adjust your configuration accordingly." in debian/NEWS
[01:28] <StevenK> I take bits from it, like the copyright, and to see what the current {post,pre}{inst,rm} do.
[01:28] <geser> and I don't know if it's still ok to include such a change into a package in main
[01:28] <StevenK> Except in libnss-db's case.
[01:28] <StevenK> Copyright: GPL
[01:28] <StevenK>  Copyright (C) 2000, 2001 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
[01:28] <StevenK> That's the whole bit.
[01:29] <pitti> geser: it is
[01:30] <geser> pitti: thanks, will file a sync request
[01:30] <pitti> geser: independent of the release status, such changes should not break existing configurations on upgrades anyway; do they?
[01:32] <thom> geser: yeah, i just read the changes and they look reasonably safe
[01:32] <geser> it checks the md5sum of the oldconfig files and exchanges them only if they are unmodified
[01:34] <pitti> geser: ah
[01:34] <infinity> StevenK: Are you de-yadaing libnss-db?
[01:35] <infinity> StevenK: Yay!
[01:36] <infinity> I'm trying to decide if a 24-hour layover in LAX is a good time to work, or just a good time to complain about the evils of intercontinental travel.
[01:36] <StevenK> Ouch
[01:36] <StevenK> And I thought the five hours I spent walking around Singapore airport was bad enough.
[01:37] <infinity> I blame TFL.
[01:37] <infinity> Two hours' worth of delays on the Piccaddily line led to me missing my first flight, and it's been all downhill from there.
[01:37] <StevenK> Oh. Neat.
[01:40] <geser> Can someone please ACK bug #127537? Thanks
[01:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127537 in apache2 "[Sync request]  Sync request apache2 (2.2.4-2) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127537
[01:40] <StevenK> src/Makefile.am: required file `./depcomp' not found
[01:53] <mpech> re
[01:54] <mpech>  which part of ubuntu uses python and needs help for testing and programming ?
[01:55] <ScottK> mpech: Python is the preferred language for development of Ubuntu specific tools, so the general answer is lots of it.
[01:55] <mpech> yeap
[01:55] <ScottK> What are your interests?
[01:56] <mpech> testing (black box) and source audit (C, Python)
[01:57] <[swb] > hello all
[01:57] <ScottK> Hello [swb] 
[01:57] <[swb] > hi ScottK
[01:57] <[swb] > I have a sort of feature request
[01:58] <[swb] > or a request for information on how to achieve such a feature
[01:58] <[swb] > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=117027
[01:58] <[swb] > I have thought ubuntu has been missing this for a while now
[01:58] <ScottK> mpech: If you are interested in testing, you ought to consider running Gutsy on a test machine/parition.  There are Ubuntu wiki pages describing needed tests.
[01:58] <[swb] > but have not seen anything about it on the internet since this post
[01:59] <unix4me> Hi. Is this a place to talk about feature requests?
[01:59] <[swb] > I am fairly proficient with python, but have not written anything involving UIs or with gnome/nautilus
[01:59] <[swb] > unix4me, I am talking with ScottK about it
[01:59] <ScottK> [swb] : I would expect that a feature like that would best be addressed with Gnome upstream.
[02:00] <[swb] > #gnome then?
[02:00] <unix4me> I think so.
[02:01] <ScottK> This is actually a better place for discussing work on development of Ubuntu, feature requests are best addressed through development of Blueprints/Specifications.
[02:01] <unix4me> is there a room for that?
[02:01] <ScottK> unix4me: It's done through Launchpad.
[02:01] <unix4me> ok
[02:01] <mpech> ScottK, whats URL for this wiki page ?
[02:02] <IntuitiveNipple> unix4me: Its the stage when MAKE expands all the macro definitions and such
[02:02] <ScottK> mpech: I'd have to search.  Do a title search on wiki.ubuntu.com.  If you don't find something let me know and I'll look if I'm still here.
[02:02] <unix4me> thank you.
[02:02] <StevenK> Can someone with some autobork clues tell me how I can get it to recreate the 'depcomp' file?
[02:03] <ynezz> ./autogen.sh
[02:04] <ynezz> (usually)
[02:05] <StevenK> No ./autogen.sh, sadly
[02:05] <ynezz> aclocal, automake -a, autoconf (one of theses)
[02:05] <ynezz> i don't know which of these create depcomp exactly :)
[02:06] <mpech> ok
[02:07] <StevenK> automake --add-missing does, thanks for the hint.
[03:18] <pkern> What's the policy for packages propagating from universe to the core?
[03:20] <zul> main/
[03:20] <StevenK> They need a MIR filed out, and more importantly, a good reason.
[03:20] <zul> er main?
[03:21] <infinity> pkern: It needs to pass some criteria (a main inclusion report), but mostly, weneed to want to support it.  If we're not going to ship it and support it, we don't really want or need it in main.
[03:22] <infinity> pkern: There's no particular shame in one's pet package being in universe (heck, I've worked for Canonical for years, and I have Debian packages in universe)
[03:22] <StevenK> infinity: Do you have autobork skills to share and a little time? It's for a good cause. :-)
[03:22] <pkern> infinity: The package was once in main but was dropped AFAIK mainly for having Howl in the dependency list, which is now fixed.
[03:22] <infinity> StevenK: I'm not all that keen on causes, good or otherwise, 7 hours into my 24 hours of airport bitter.  But shoot anyway.
[03:23] <StevenK> infinity: Ah. The cause being an upload of libnss-db that builds, and leads to yada being demoted.
[03:23] <infinity> StevenK: SOLD.
[03:24] <infinity> StevenK: What's the problem?
[03:24] <infinity> pkern: We've dropped a lot of stuff from main just because we don't like to bloat the supported list, too...
[03:24] <StevenK> infinity: It doesn't currently build using CDBS and the autotools class set runs the tools and I get './depcomp' not found, which it isn't. I can forcibly create it with automake --add-missing, but anything more than that and I'm just guessing.
[03:25] <StevenK> infinity: That sentence is a mess. :-(
[03:25] <infinity> I don't do CDBS...
[03:26] <infinity> ever.
[03:26] <StevenK> Hrm.
[03:27] <infinity> Moving from Yada to CDBS is likemoving from dating a COBOL hacker to a C hacker... Sure, you may be moving up in the modern world, but you're still dating a programmer.
[03:27] <StevenK> Personally, I don't see that as a bad thing ... :-)
[03:28] <infinity> Well, you've moved from dating dexter to group sex with Colin Walters, dilinger, and jbailey.  How's that?
[03:29] <StevenK> I think I need to scrub so hard that I'll bleed.
[03:29] <thom> you could use DBS and just fellate doogie
[03:29] <StevenK> Then again, what do you class debhelper, as? :-P
[03:29] <StevenK> MY EYES!
[03:29] <infinity> debhelper involves stroking joeyh's beard lovingly.
[03:30] <infinity> You could do worse, I guess.
[03:30] <StevenK> Heh. Last time I saw joeyh, he was beardless
[03:30] <infinity> *shock*
[03:30] <infinity> Did you notice his hacker-fu had died along with it?
[03:30] <StevenK> Not really, he was doing serious d-i hacking
[03:31] <StevenK> (This being at Debconf in Finland)
[03:31] <infinity> Anyhow, straight dh_make would make me happier, if I was the one who was going to review it and help mangle breakages.
[03:32] <infinity> And since I have a vested interest in libnss-db (ud-ldap), I might care.
[03:32] <StevenK> I'm currently shoehorning debhelper in.
[03:32] <infinity> It's also a simple enough package, that going debhelper-free would be an option too, though overkill.
[03:32] <pkern> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportGobby <-- There's even an old one that got approved back then. \:
[03:33] <infinity> I'm developing German English punctuation.
[03:42] <doko> infinity: ?
[03:43] <infinity> doko: Oh, just complaining that you're ruining my English punctuation.
[03:43] <infinity> doko: Nothing actually relevant, you can go back to lurking.
[03:43] <doko> infinity: I didn't edit anything for gobby, why should I?
[03:44] <StevenK> Oh wait, I'm not applying patches.
[03:48] <infinity> doko: Err.  What?  I wasn't talking about you and gobby together in any way.
[03:57] <IntuitiveNipple> Where's all the kernel build experts?
[03:58] <Kmos> IntuitiveNipple: tomorrow
[03:58] <Kmos> !weekend
[03:58] <ubotu> It's a weekend.  Often on weekends, the paid developers, and a lot of the community, may not be around to answer your question.  Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would, or try again during the working week.
[03:58] <IntuitiveNipple> um, thats me you're referring to :)
[04:19] <StevenK> infinity: Gah, now it all blows up at the end of ./configure.
[04:19] <StevenK> Actually, no, it cd's into src and runs automake
[04:20] <infinity> StevenK: Timestamp skew?
[04:27] <StevenK> aclocal-1.9 -I m4
[04:27] <StevenK> aclocal: couldn't open directory `m4': No such file or directory
[04:39] <_wattazoum_> Hello there
[05:21] <Amaranth> StevenK: what package is that?
[05:25] <ScottK> Amaranth: It's libnss-db
[05:25] <Amaranth> ok, thanks
[05:25] <Amaranth> now i know to stay far away
[05:42] <FireRabbit> howdy from ubuntu live!