=== Vorian [n=Steve@ubuntu/member/Vorian] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === Vorian [n=Steve@ubuntu/member/Vorian] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has left #ubuntu-marketing [] === Bassetts [n=Bassetts@unaffiliated/bassetts] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === Vorian [n=Steve@ubuntu/member/Vorian] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === gavinbaker [n=gavin@c-69-143-179-58.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === gavinbaker waves to channel [04:00] are the bug stats in UWN compiled by hand, or automagically exported from Launchpad? [04:08] gavinbaker: hamsters, they're compiled by hamsters [04:08] Flannel: i see. [04:08] do these... hamsters have an API i can plug into? [04:10] That depends on how much you're willing to feed them, I imagine. I don't know which data UWN uses, but here's one: http://people.ubuntu-in.org/~carthik/bugstats/ [04:10] At the bottom there's a paragraph describing how it works (basically just aggregates raw bugs from LP) [04:10] if i want to compile stats for my own Launchpad project... simple counts, like the ones in UWN (# new bugs this week, # bugs closed this week, etc.) [04:11] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Ideas#head-0ea10cdba221a1ee61fb83648c61cea68233251d [04:11] actually, that's what they do (as per that page) [04:12] You might ask carthik for his code, or do some poking around to find it on the interblags [04:14] Flannel: thanks for the help. now i just have to get my hands on that script :) === boredandblogging [n=nali@ubuntu/member/boredandblogging] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === saxonjf [n=matt@adsl-19-192-184.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === Bassetts [n=Bassetts@unaffiliated/bassetts] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [05:18] So, what happens in marketing? === saxonjf [n=matt@adsl-19-192-184.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === saxonjf [n=matt@adsl-19-192-184.bna.bellsouth.net] has left #ubuntu-marketing ["Leaving"] [06:00] joins and parts, apparently [06:01] well, Ubuntu Live is going on currently [06:25] you there? === gavinbaker [n=gavin@c-69-143-179-58.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-marketing ["Leaving"] === elkbuntu notes she's terribly jealous of everyone in oregon currently :( === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === mehdi2 [n=mehdi@ubuntu/member/MehdiHassanpour] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === yama [n=yama@ppp121-44-59-244.lns2.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === yama [n=yama@ppp121-44-59-244.lns2.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [09:03] While I am not in Oregon myself, I at least made sure some of my stickers made it ;) [09:08] jenda: oh? === mrmonday [n=mrmonday@unaffiliated/mrmonday] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === boredand1logging [n=nali@c-24-98-177-125.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === Susana_ [n=Susana@bl6-10-126.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === txwikinger [n=txwiking@sblug/member/txwikinger] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === Susana [n=Susana@bl6-10-126.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === boredandblogging [n=nali@c-24-98-177-125.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [11:53] Burgundavia: yep, some guy had them express-mailed to him, in time for the conference. === tsatsos007 [n=tsatsos0@ppp016-020.dsl.hol.gr] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [11:53] Enter text hello [11:54] does anyone have experience in marketing? [11:54] i need some help [11:54] simple stuff [11:55] :-( [11:55] tsatsos007, i dont have time right now, but if you say what you need help with in the channel, someone will answer when they see it [11:56] i cannot grasp the concept of marketing segmentation actually [11:56] and i want to help a business right now [11:56] identify it [11:56] ! [11:57] but i am confused when i try to apply it [11:58] the business actually concerns the entire population of a country..it s concerned w health [11:58] so how on earth are u going to divide people up when u want to sell to the entire population [11:58] ? [11:58] ! [11:59] you figure out a few target markets [11:59] the rest will follow [11:59] basically, it can be boiled down to usecases [12:02] do the people that you actually sell play a role in that [12:02] ? [12:02] i mean... [12:02] because this program is going to be financed by government insurance [12:02] so citizens will not pay anything [12:03] BUT it is made for people actually [12:03] marketing has nothing to do with whether or not people pay [12:03] and doing marketing research can help [12:03] so let me understand...why divide people into segments? [12:03] because if can you break up use cases, you know how to make and market your product better [12:04] do you know what a use case is? [12:04] hmmm...not exactly.. [12:04] a use case is basically a story about a user [12:04] it tells who they are and what they nee [12:04] need [12:05] i c... ok the needs and wants of people right [12:05] yes, but a specific person [12:05] but take the Electronic medical records in the US [12:05] not a specific person, but a specific type of person [12:05] right now [12:05] ahh [12:05] how would u divide them up?! [12:06] easy [12:06] geographically? [12:06] you have doctors, nurses, patients, administrators [12:06] you might have a specific use case about an admin in a hospital in a specific region, due to laws [12:07] but your target isn t patients primarily? [12:07] if they use the software, then yes [12:07] (I c where u r getting at..) [12:08] you could think about how a patient needs their medical records to get to [12:08] maybe they have three or four doctors, all of whom need to know about what the others are doing [12:08] how does your software handle that [12:08] ?' [12:08] do you see what I mean? [12:08] ok yes..then my next question is that [12:09] marketing segmentation doe not depend on [12:09] organizational stretegy === _cerbero_ [n=jga@pD9527903.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [12:09] and what wants to do next? === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [12:09] i mean what other software it will launch next for example [12:09] well, it does, because it should be part of a larger plan [12:09] on health [12:10] for instance, you usually do your use cases at teh beginning of development [12:10] this allows you to take those use cases and turn them into marketing, as you now know the needs of the decision makers [12:11] let me understand the use cases better [12:11] does it have to be somekind of research [12:11] or intuition initially [12:11] then later u could do a research? [12:12] a bit of both, but better to do your research early === NaNO2x [n=NaNO2x@c-24-17-23-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [12:12] remember, your use cases are used in both development and marketing [12:12] you don't wnat to discover you are developing all the wrong features [12:12] for example for EHR..people need to have their data safer, private, [12:13] hmm and ready in case of emergencies [12:13] yes [12:13] so one use case would be how ER nurses can get to the information quickly [12:13] and your marketing would talk about how they can do that, in a secure manner [12:14] what if u divide people in to people who are insured..and people who are not insured [12:14] it would be rather misleading right? [12:14] I don't really see how that affects your marketing [12:15] me neither lol [12:15] remember, your marketing si aimed at decision makers' [12:15] what d u mean by that? [12:15] decision makers are hte people who buy your software [12:15] they are the people who say "yes" to you [12:16] u mean the customers? [12:16] yes, your customers [12:16] i c [12:16] whomever you want to adopt this software, the decision makers are that organization [12:16] so what is the purpose of dividing people into segments? [12:17] ok..to understand their needs [12:17] and serve them better [12:17] is that all? [12:17] pretty much [12:17] lets look at marketing cars [12:17] say everybody wants cars that are really big [12:17] ;-) [12:17] if you are marketing cars that are really small, you are failing [12:18] unless of course, you can find a market for people who want really small carsd [12:18] maybe city dwellers [12:18] midgets? [12:18] so you create a marketing campaign about a car that "meets their lifestyle", showing shots of peope int eh city [12:18] jenda: clearly midgets [12:18] I'll buy one. [12:18] correct..but u will divide segments like people with certain income [12:19] income is one way [12:19] pretty much anything that people make a decision on is a dividing line [12:19] ,then will u include the retailers that u will give the cars to sell?? [12:19] income should be included in your supply-demand charts, as it implies the amount they are willing to pay. [12:19] and those come after you segment your market. [12:19] since they are the ones that will forward your product?! === jenda stops interfering with Burgundavia's lecture :) [12:19] your retailers are often your co-marketeers === NaNO2x [n=NaNO2x@c-24-17-23-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-marketing [] [12:20] jenda: no, no, pipe in as needed [12:20] ok :) [12:20] :-) [12:20] I need to sleep, as it is 3am, I need to get up at 8am because Mark's keynote starts at 8 [12:20] yay for Ubuntu live [12:20] enjoy :) [12:20] that s great help honestly [12:21] ok then let me ask u this [12:21] let s get back to EHR [12:21] ehr == ? [12:21] what other segmentation could u do and why? [12:21] electronic health records [12:21] (EHR) [12:21] or EMR [12:22] tsatsos007: the basis of segmentation is finding out what separate types of people will buy your product [12:22] given I know nothing about how such software is bought, I cannot help you [12:22] what you need to do at the very basic is to go to a few hospitals and say "how do you decide which software to get" [12:22] tsatsos007: I would assume your custumers could be 1) private medical institutions 2) public medical institutions 3) insurance companies... [12:23] ok people who will actually buy the product is insurance companies (public + private) [12:23] then you can get those answers and divide them up based on who gave them to you [12:23] yes [12:23] each of them would have their own specific requirements and are able of paying different amounts. [12:23] hospitals ,clinics,etc [12:23] that s true [12:23] each has different pain that they are trying to solve [12:23] but basically it aims to citizens right? [12:24] tsatsos007: they aren't the decision-makers, however. [12:24] won t u include them as well? [12:24] yes, but you don't really care about that stuff [12:24] that s why i get confused [12:24] your one and only audience is the people who buy your software [12:24] tsatsos007: the ones that decide whether or not to get your software are the IT dept. of the institutions, probably, or their directors. [12:25] If the hospital folks want the software just to annoy their patients, then you need to fulfill that need - not the needs of the patients :) [12:25] anyway, I am off to sleep [12:25] Burgundavia: good night. [12:25] thx for yr help [12:25] !! [12:25] Burgundavia: YOU'RE AWAKE??? [12:25] night [12:25] oh, it's teh west coast - not that bad. [12:25] jenda: I frequently give long lectures about marketing while complely asleep [12:25] u r in the Us right? [12:25] sorry for raising my voice ;) [12:25] Burgundavia: hehe [12:25] lol [12:26] tsatsos007: so... where were we : [12:26] :) [12:26] ok ..so.. [12:26] Ah, we were gossiping about Burgundavia, weren't we? [12:26] erm, no. [12:26] say i include people like insurance companies.. [12:26] lol [12:27] That's up to you - is it possible that they will buy your stuff? [12:27] the question is then to understand [12:27] yes say yes [12:27] so the question is their needs [12:27] to the program? [12:27] how they fit in? [12:28] or what would make them buy it? [12:28] [Oh... let me chuck in a disclaimer: I have absolutely no marketing qualification whatsoever, and am not responsible for what I say ;)] [12:28] and also to quantify them.. [12:28] Well, what would make them buy it - or, in better words, under which circumstances would they buy it. [12:29] hospitals and insurance companies might include the same number of end users:citizens..right? [12:29] isn t that confusing? [12:29] (and the question of price isn't one of the criteria you should be observing right now - you should return to that later) [12:29] not really [12:29] but I don't think you care about the citizens - it's the institutions that'll be paying you, no? [12:30] Unless it isn't - and you will be charging the actual people themselves. [12:30] basically yes..say though u want to sell to few that are uninsured so u might charge them as well for buying separately [12:30] aha [12:31] ;-) [12:31] so it is a thing individuals might buy too? [12:31] yes [12:31] and at the same time, hospitals (the establishment, not the patients) would buy it too? [12:31] yes [12:32] if that's the case - you have one gigantic market schism right there. Private individuals and health-related-institutions [12:32] :-s [12:32] I'm fairly sure their expectations will differ astronomically, unless all the institutions do is resell the thing to their visitors. [12:32] confusing isn t it? [12:32] It might be :) [12:33] But I think that if you split it up thoroughly, it'll make perfect sense :) [12:33] This is where use cases come in. [12:33] that s my problem right now [12:33] You have to imagine circumstances under which an individual or an institution would buy it. [12:33] what do u suggest? [12:34] I have no idea. I still don't understand what the software is for :D [12:35] For example: jenda is a linux geek. He spends too much time on IRC and has no life. He will not buy the software unless it is released under a GPL-compatible license. [12:35] That's one of the use cases you know you will not satisfy ;) I'm sure you can find yourself many that you will. [12:35] lol...basically EHRs connect everyone people have their records digitalized,doctors use them to diagnose, [12:36] mhmm [12:36] billing is sent to insurance companies,ets [12:36] rtc [12:36] sr ..etc === tsmithe [n=toby@ubuntu/member/tsmithe] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [12:37] Joe is 74 years old and has trouble with his heart. This requires that he knows exactly what his doctors make of the symptoms he is showing as soon as possible. Because of this, he needs a way to communicate with them efficiently - and email doesn't cut it, because then the doctors would have to evaluate and assemble all the data manually. [12:37] tsatsos007: something like that? [12:37] so basically people want to have their records digitalized..are they not a part? [12:37] yes [12:37] Would this Joe be a potential customer? [12:37] wait [12:38] apart from all that..the doctor can see...age...birth data...xrays(past)..allergies...other illnesses he s gone through [12:39] to avoid any kind of mistake [12:39] so in that sense.. [12:40] joe would care to buy it [12:40] for no medical errors [12:41] i really got u confused right? [12:41] lol [12:41] no, no I'm fine : [12:41] :) [12:41] Thinking. [12:42] And would Joe have to buy teh software to use it, or would it suffice that the hospital uses it? [12:42] for people that hospitals/clinics/insurance companies caannot reach...my guess is to sell it separately as well! [12:42] gah, I just spilt tea on myself. And I don't have any software to take care of that. [12:43] he would take like a card on him [12:43] "cannot reach" - does this mean Joe has the option of buying the software from the hospital? [12:43] but government would pay for it [12:43] lol!! [12:43] yes [12:44] that s right hospitals could make it for him.. [12:44] but there are people that r uninsured..or even people that rarely go to hospitals [12:44] so difficult to reach [12:44] ! [12:45] yes [12:45] I understand [12:46] so u would include them as well?! [12:46] but the key here is if Joe can or can't buy it from the hospital, and if you get your money if he does, or if you only get money when the hospital buys it in advance. [12:46] Certainly - include them as a distinct category. [12:46] In fact, it seems to me that you only have two categories: the institutions and the end-users [12:47] The main difference being that the institutions will be reselling the stuff to the end-users, and you have to consider if you want them to pay you each time they do, or if you want to give them a licence to resell from the start. [12:48] let me think.. [12:49] ok...end users will get them for free basically [12:50] they won t be able to pay since it concerns a national health isssue [12:50] Both the users that get it from their hospital, and those that get it from you directly? [12:50] right? [12:50] I don't know. [12:50] You should ;) [12:50] so government will have to pay one way or another [12:50] lol [12:50] I don't even know which country we're talking about. [12:50] say for US ..doesn t matter [12:51] so u ll charge institutions/hospitals [12:51] good, that makes it simpler === yama` [n=yama@ppp121-44-16-87.lns3.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [12:51] that will offer it to citizens [12:51] but what do you do about those who don't have a hospital that would offer it to them? [12:52] Ah, you don't need to do anything, as it wouldn't serve them any purpose anyway, as their hospital obviously doesn't use it, no? [12:52] why did u have to ask me that!!!?lol..i don t have any specific answer lol [12:52] hehe [12:52] well at some point in time it will come to use right? === yama` is now known as yama [12:53] ok, so you need to focus on the segmentation of the hospitals and such [12:53] even though u r not sick now..u may b later [12:53] yes [12:53] so u include them?!? [12:53] but it won't be of any use if your hospital doesn't 'support' the system. [12:53] You always, always, include only those who _pay_ you. [12:54] so you don't count with the people at all, if they get it from the hospital. [12:54] You only count with the hospitals and such. [12:54] i c..hospitals will support the system..but not everybody will be at hospitals to take it [12:54] hm [12:54] i c [12:54] so u break down to [12:54] hospitals,clinics,insurance companies,.. [12:55] Well - will you be giving it to Joe, if he can't get it from his hospital? :) [12:55] (selling) [12:55] or institutions in general? [12:55] well, you only break them down if they differ [12:55] (that s the trick question...so lets include both cases!) [12:55] I'm sure a public and a private institution will differ, but I'm not really sure if a hospital will differ from a clinic [12:55] differ in what sense? [12:56] u mean their needs? [12:56] both have patients, both have budgets, both need the SW for the same purpose [12:56] needs, resources, use cases [12:56] but if u want to charge them differently? [12:56] because of their size eg [12:56] hospitals and clinics? [12:56] yes maybe.. [12:57] if it's just a quantitative difference (e.g. you charge them per patient annually), no need to make a distinction [12:57] obviously [12:58] ok tell me more about the cases..because i don t seem to have understood it [12:58] if there is a qualitative difference, however - a hospital would be charged per patient and a pharmacy would be charged per... erm... pill? :) [12:58] Well, Joe, above, is one use case [12:58] But since we decided Joe gets his stuff from his hospital, he doesn't concern us. [12:59] lol..what would u examine in the case for hospitals?! [12:59] Lets say Public Hospital A wants to buy your SW because it would like to track their patients data. [12:59] We know they have 500 patients a week, 200 of whom would use the same software at home in order to keep in touch with the hospital better. [01:00] ok.. === mrmonday [n=mrmonday@89.242.136.249] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [01:00] so? [01:00] I'm not sure what else to track there. [01:00] But if we compare it with, say, an insurance company... [01:00] why would an insurance company want your software? [01:00] Would it have as much use from it as a hospital? I don't think so. [01:00] because they bill them directly [01:00] doctors/patients [01:00] mhm [01:01] through internet [01:02] so ehat about them? [01:02] what can u tell about insurances? [01:02] Well, Insurance Company B has to pay its customers' doctors' fees whenever they visit P.H. A. This is made much simpler with the use of your software. Half the people in the Hospital's area are customers of this company - which makes it 100 uses/week [01:02] This changes the hospital's use case too, though [01:03] P.H. A wants to track data for its patients. It has 500 patients a week, 200 of whom use your software, and half of these are insured with I.C. B. [01:03] I don't really think the numbers are important here. [01:04] ok.. [01:04] so how does it change things? [01:04] Now, I've spotted an important difference in the two types of customer [01:04] the insurance company uses the software only to know which people to pay for and when, and where to. [01:05] yes [01:05] the hospital, however, uses it to communicate with the insurance company about that, but also (mainly) to track their patients data. [01:05] yes [01:05] :-) [01:05] The hospital's needs for the SW are far more robust, and they would likely be able to pay a lot more for it. [01:06] u have a point there [01:06] The insurance company could even be satisfied with a much simpler version of the software, if they could pay less than the hospitals. [01:06] however insurances will save lots of costs [01:06] but yes indeed [01:07] hispitals are the main target [01:07] Take it all into account - but the actual price should, in the end, be found at the balance of supply and demand [01:08] i.e. the price at which your profit is maximised - when you raise the price a bit, you lose customers, and profit. If you lower the price a bit, you gain customers, but not enough to cover the loss of revenue. [01:08] highschool economy classes in action there :) [01:08] actually i ve graduated from a business degree.. [01:08] I'm a law student ;) [01:09] but it s the application of it that i m stuck now!! ..shit,then how on earth u know that much? [01:10] Another thing to think about is if the insurance companies will be forwarding the SW to their customers, or not. (What would a customer need the software for, if his hospital doesn't use it, and if it does, he can get it there, no?) [01:10] (to b hosnest i always had the question of how u go about finding yr demand!!) [01:11] Erm... I don't really know anything :) I only have experience here in the marketing team, but Ubuntu marketing is something totally different. [01:12] See my disclaimer above - anything I say here might be a complete load... ;) [01:12] ideas r that count..:-) [01:13] Finding demand... hmm... I don't know :) I usually post a forum poll :) [01:13] I believe it is done by asking a few example use cases [01:13] most importantly, you need to know that the needs you are trying to fulfill for them aren't already being satisfied by something else. [01:14] ok i am thinkin about yr previous question [01:14] ok [01:14] so... [01:14] Perhaps the hospitals should have two licences themselves - one for their own SW equipment, and one to sub-licence to customers === Watersevenub [n=Watersev@84.18.242.227] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [01:14] yes insurance will forward SW [01:14] The software itself could even be different. [01:14] will it? ok. [01:15] hmm.. [01:16] hope is that hospitals will use it [01:16] yep, that's precondition #1 [01:16] The insurance company will not touch it unless the hospital uses it, and neither will the patients [01:16] Basically, I think you have 3 market segments now. [01:16] hosp.,insurance, [01:17] and patients? [01:17] 1) Patients. They will not pay for it, they will get it from the hospital. Will the hospital have to pay seperate for being allowed to give it to patients? [01:17] 2) Insurance. They will pay for it, and will only use it to communicate with hospitals (and perhaps inform the patient) [01:18] 3) Hospitals. They will use it to communicate with 1 and 2, and to manage their databases of patients' health, finances, drugs, etc. [01:18] yep, those three === yama` [n=yama@ppp59-167-3-81.lns1.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [01:18] each of them have _very_ distinct needs, and can offer different sums, too, nope? :) [01:19] yes..patient s though as we discussed have 2 choices: [01:19] For example, the patients, who actually benefit most, will not pay anything. The insurance, which seems to need it least, will be able to pay the most ;) === yama` is now known as yama [01:19] pay [01:19] or not pay because they are financed by government [01:19] hmm [01:19] so only in case they pay should i include them? [01:19] doesn't that financing go through the insurance? [01:20] you should definitely include them [01:20] even if they don't pay, because you need to think of a way to get the software to them, and get paid for it somewhere along the way. [01:20] yes through insurance [01:21] that s great ..that s what was confusing me [01:21] hmm [01:22] Anything else? :) I _should_ be working :D [01:22] so to charge tem..u need to find the demand for each?!? [01:22] hmm [01:22] probably [01:22] waht about the supply.. [01:22] the demand for 1 and 2 is 0 until you get hospitals to use it. [01:22] i c [01:22] supply is given by the lowest price you're willing to sell at. [01:23] since it's software, making aditional copies doesn't cost anything [01:23] to a respective number of hospitals say ..right? [01:23] taht would be the demand [01:23] yep..sr [01:23] if you draw yourself a demand chart with price at the bottom axis and demand on the left... [01:24] the demand will drop as the price rises [01:24] right...supply will increase [01:24] say, there will be 10 hospitals that would buy it within a month if the price were $50 [01:24]