[12:29] <fdoving> ScottK: around?  kio-umountwrapper_0.2-0ubuntu3 from http://ubuntu.lnix.net/archive/gutsy/ - tested and it works.
[12:44] <ScottK> fdoving: Just headed out the door for dinner.  Maybe later tonight (I'm on -0400).
[12:56] <s0undt3ch> hello ppl, anyone knows if gtk+2 package ships with it's translations?
[12:56] <s0undt3ch> aparently not, is this a bug?
[01:38] <Riddell> fdoving: added to seeds
[01:41] <Riddell> fdoving: uploaded kio-umountwrapper_0.2-0ubuntu3 thanks
[01:42] <Riddell> I'll promote to main tomorrow
[01:47] <nixternal> Riddell: Phil is kool people :)
[02:17] <mhb> hello folks, I have a tiny bugreport to report, and I think here is the best place for it
[02:18] <mhb> I tried to "apt-get source ksplash" and it said: WARNING: 'kdebase' is maintained in the 'Bzr' version control system at: https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/debian
[02:18] <mhb> however, that bzr branch does not exist
[02:20] <crimsun> file a bug. Iit should be https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kdebase/debian
[02:21] <mhb> yeah, I figured
[02:38] <jjesse> ok finally done with harry potter #7
[02:44] <jdong> jjesse: harry dies!
[02:44] <jdong> everyone dies!
[02:44] <mhb> eventually
[02:44] <jdong> lol I have no idea what I'm talking about :)
[02:44] <jjesse> i bet a lot of people would get pissed at jdong's comment
[02:45] <mhb> jjesse: how was the ending? :o)
[02:45] <jjesse> mhb: didn't like it and that's all i'll say for now
[02:45] <mhb> jjesse: I told you :o)
[02:57] <jjesse> real quick how do i turn off the system beep?
[03:11] <jdong> set nobeep?
[03:11] <jdong> setopt
[03:11] <jjesse> set nobeep i think did it
[03:14] <jdong> ok, cool
[03:14] <jdong> in some shells it's setopt
[03:14] <jdong> like say, zsh, and all the cool shells :)
[03:15] <jjesse> ah i don't use a "cool" shell then
[03:20] <jdong> aww, well you should :)
[03:20] <jdong> your lazy  tab finger will like you better :)
[03:21] <ScottK> Riddell: I commented on that upgrade-manager bug I hit.  After much investigation, I think that it'll take a major redesign to work on low memory systems.  The cache is just to big.
[04:04] <mhb> http://bayimg.com/jaEMBaABf I am hopeless.
[04:05] <mhb> On the other hand, I'd be happy to hear your feedback on that splash screen I just posted :o)
[04:06] <bsundsrud> simple
[04:06] <bsundsrud> yet elegant
[04:07] <bsundsrud> maybe add a kde/kubuntu logo over the bar?
[04:08] <mhb> bsundsrud: I wish I could :o) if you know the KDE's "simple" black and white splash screen, this is the same code with Kubuntu upslash colours added in it
[04:09] <bsundsrud> ah
[04:10] <bsundsrud> did you use the kde4 packages or did you build it yourself?
[04:11] <mhb> bsundsrud: the printscreen was from kde3, but I usually build KDE4 myself
[04:11] <nixternal> mhb: honestly...
[04:11] <bsundsrud> on kubuntu?
[04:11] <nixternal> I absolutely love it :)
[04:11] <nixternal> I use the simple black & white one anyways
[04:12] <bsundsrud> i tried to follow the techbase page on setting up a kde4 environment but i never could seem to get it compiled...
[04:13] <mhb> nixternal: that's not "honestly" :-)
[04:13] <mhb> nixternal: I did use that black and white too, but I thought I'd add some Kubuntu colours to it
[04:15] <mhb> nixternal: the good thing is that the code is toolkit-independent, so it is one of the few ksplashes that work in KDE4
[04:15] <nixternal> I remember looking for the code one day and gave up on it
[04:17] <mhb> bsundsrud: if you want to compile KDE4, switch to Gutsy Gibbon, you'll have the Qt4.3 libs built and the other stuff is easy (use the techbase tutorial)
[04:17] <bsundsrud> k
[04:17] <bsundsrud> im using gutsy atm anyway :D
[04:18] <bsundsrud> i like cutting edge
[04:19] <mhb> nixternal: but I'm so glad you like it.
[04:19] <manchicken> Sweet, the debtags issue is fixed/
[04:25] <manchicken> Do we know if anybody has been documenting libapt?
[04:28] <mhb> nixternal: if you want, you can check out http://mhb.ath.cx/tmp/ksplash-engine-simplecolours/ , add the folder into your kdebase-3.5.7/ksplashml/themeengine/ folder and try to compile it (I don't promise anything)
[04:30] <mhb> nixternal: what I can promise is that I'll try to clean the code a bit, add some more colours (10 should be enough) and then try and push it into Kubuntu Gutsy universe
[04:32] <manchicken> I'll see if I can get some warnings for when folks try to modify stuff with packages of required and important priority.
[05:29] <mhb> hello Hobbsee
[05:31] <Hobbsee> heya mhb!
[05:37] <mhb> Hobbsee: did you see my latest garbage screenshot? http://bayimg.com/jaEMBaABf
[05:37] <Hobbsee> mhb: neat!
[05:38] <mhb> Hobbsee: "simple" ksplash meets kubuntu usplash
[05:38] <Hobbsee> yep
[05:38] <Hobbsee> the usplash usually doesnt have the icons on it by that point, though
[05:40] <mhb> Hobbsee: ah, you mean the desktop icons? They're there because I was testing the ksplash, not actually starting KDE.
[05:41] <Hobbsee> ahhh.....
[05:41] <Hobbsee> yes
[05:42] <Hobbsee> that seems to be as simple is designed, actually
[05:42] <Hobbsee> to not actually have another background
[05:44] <nixternal> howdy!
[05:44] <Hobbsee> hiya nixternal!
[05:44] <nixternal> hiya Hobbsee!
[05:45] <mhb> Hobbsee: yes, not loading another background is one good aspect of it
[05:46] <Hobbsee> yep :)
[05:46] <Hobbsee> although i thikn i'm using the moodlin one at the moment
[05:47] <mhb> Hobbsee: which is the default one, right?
[05:47] <Hobbsee> unsure
[05:47] <Hobbsee> actually, i think we may have a kubuntu splash?
[05:48] <nixternal> ya, and the Kubuntu splash is a moodin one, which I didn't know..
[05:48] <mhb> Hobbsee: yes, but on a moodin engine
[05:49] <Hobbsee> ah right
[05:50] <mhb> Hobbsee: the moodin engine is quite the opposite of the "simple" engine :o) very customizable, but very complicated
[05:50] <mhb> for a splash screen, that is
[05:50] <Hobbsee> ahhhh
[05:51] <DaSkreech> How do I handle stoned?
[05:52] <nixternal> sleep it off
[05:53] <DaSkreech> Heh
[05:53] <DaSkreech> gutsy+1 was announced as LTS?
[05:53] <nixternal> a while ago
[05:53] <Hobbsee> that was decided at UDS, yes
[05:53] <nixternal> every 2 years
[05:53] <DaSkreech> sweet
[05:57] <mhb> Hobbsee: to be honest, I have never undestood why that KDE splash screen always prints messages like "setting interprocess communication"
[05:58] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:58] <Hobbsee> true
[05:58] <mhb> Hobbsee: I mean: who cares? :o) users care only if something bad happens (an that usually results in a error pop-up), developers know what's happening anyway
[05:58] <DaSkreech> mhb: User comfort
[05:59] <DaSkreech> Is it actually tied to anything in the background?
[05:59] <Hobbsee> unsure - maybe being able to see what is happening, if it's lagging?
[05:59] <DaSkreech> I just thought that all that stuff was just a pretty little bar that keeps running to keep users happy knowing something is happening
[06:00] <mhb> DaSkreech: true, but why write messages that are incomprehensible to the user?
[06:00] <DaSkreech> mhb: have you ever played the Sims?
[06:00] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: hehe, i know where you're going with this.
[06:00] <Hobbsee> sims 2 has even better messages
[06:00] <mhb> my sister had
[06:01] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: doesn't it?
[06:01] <mhb> Hobbsee: I know those :o)
[06:01] <Hobbsee> oh yes ;)
[06:01] <Hobbsee> mhb: did your sister ever play with the buyable fire, in multiple colours?
[06:01] <DaSkreech> mhb: Yeah if we wanted we could make the purposely over the top and throw pouring milk for the kitty in the middle
[06:01] <DaSkreech>  I don't think it matters
[06:02] <mhb> Hobbsee: I've never paid much attention to the sims, I must admit
[06:02] <Hobbsee> awww, darn.
[06:04] <DaSkreech> I would guess within the visible spectrum?
[06:04] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: i meant across that community
[06:05] <Hobbsee> http://simsattic3.si.funpic.org/miscellaneous_files/Pleasant_4_0002.jpg
[06:05] <Hobbsee> ^ be the buyable fires.
[06:06] <DaSkreech> I wonder if Seven deadly sims is still around
[06:07] <Hobbsee> should be.
[06:07] <Hobbsee> for sims 1, anyway
[06:07] <Hobbsee> maybe for ts2
[06:07] <Hobbsee> creating for the sims is so hard anyway
[06:07] <Hobbsee> there's multiple tools, so you use about 5 in any creation
[06:08] <Hobbsee> and apart from that, they change the base level code during most of hte expansion packs, so the more objects and stuff you do, the more of them you have to fix.
[06:08] <Hobbsee> (seeing as they never actually released edith)
[06:09] <Hobbsee> C&C is gone, though :(
[06:10] <Hobbsee> </ random discussion >
[06:11] <DaSkreech> edith?
[06:11] <DaSkreech> Who?
[06:12] <Hobbsee> it was the tool the people at (then) maxis used to create the objects.
[06:12] <bsundsrud> you knew edith too?
[06:13] <nixternal> archie was the best
[06:13] <Hobbsee> heh
[06:13] <DaSkreech> Jughead
[06:13] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: editing things in hex instead is fun, y'know :P
[06:14] <Hobbsee> for the stuff they didnt really have plugins for
[06:14] <nixternal> not that archie you silly
[06:14] <DaSkreech> Oh yeah we used to do that for SC tournaments
[06:14] <DaSkreech> Umm
[06:14] <nixternal> Archie and Edith Bunker
[06:14] <DaSkreech> wait
[06:14] <DaSkreech>  I swore never to talk about that
[06:14] <DaSkreech> Ah
[06:14] <DaSkreech> Those were the days
[06:14] <nixternal> haha yes
[06:14] <nixternal> I catch it every now and then on Nick at Night
[06:15] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: hahahahaha
[06:15] <Hobbsee> [14:14]  <DaSkreech>  I swore never to talk about that <-- i usually operate on the same
[06:15] <DaSkreech> :-)
[06:16] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: You mean the swearing?
[06:16] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: no, the stuff about the sims, actually
[06:16] <DaSkreech> ah yeah :-)
[06:16] <DaSkreech> Sims is great
[06:16] <DaSkreech> Wish they still had the music in Sims2 :-(
[06:17] <Hobbsee> and my website design is not so bad...ish.
[06:17] <Hobbsee> you can grab the sims 1 music, iirc
[06:17] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[06:17] <DaSkreech> I have a playlist
[06:17] <DaSkreech> I'm unfortunately addicted to simolease lyrics
[06:17] <DaSkreech> hi Mez
[06:18] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: *grin*
[06:18] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: you cant seem to get the ts2 songs out, though.
[06:18] <DaSkreech> I know
[06:18] <DaSkreech>  sucks the
[06:19] <DaSkreech> I wonder if they would be so nice as to have them on the website
[06:20] <Hobbsee> doubt it
[06:20] <Hobbsee> some of htem, maybe
[06:20] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[06:20] <Hobbsee> !packagingguide | mhb
[06:20] <ubotu> mhb: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[06:20] <DaSkreech>  EA should use that money to buy a soul
[06:21] <Hobbsee> EA couldnt be that sensible.
[06:23] <DaSkreech> You mean like making the games Linux compatible?
[06:24] <Hobbsee> now that'd be nice....
[06:24] <Hobbsee> ts1 has a linux port, though.  not the expansions, though
[06:24] <DaSkreech> a port?
[06:24] <DaSkreech>  serious?
[06:24] <Hobbsee> mandriva made one.
[06:24] <DaSkreech> http://thesims2.ea.com/getcoolstuff/index.php?pid=GetCoolStuff
[06:25] <DaSkreech> You can buy the music
[06:25] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: means it should be easy enough to pirate.
[06:25] <Hobbsee> er, "obtain"
[06:26] <DaSkreech> what aaarrrrrrr you talking about?
[06:26] <Hobbsee> :P
[06:26] <Hobbsee> EA's copy protection sucks.
[06:26] <DaSkreech> http://talklikeapirate.com
[06:26] <Hobbsee> then again, their games are of beta quality when they release, so....
[06:27] <DaSkreech> yay! They have the lyrics sheeets for the sims songs online
[06:27] <DaSkreech> :-P
[06:27] <DaSkreech> jackasses
[06:27] <Hobbsee> haha
[06:28] <nixternal> this is to damn scary in here
[06:28] <DaSkreech> to or from ?
[06:36] <DaSkreech> http://thesims2.ea.com/getcoolstuff/music/The_Sims_2_Theme.mp3
[06:36] <DaSkreech> See this I can live with
[06:38] <nixternal> my lord, you have issues
[06:39] <Hobbsee> haha
[06:39] <Hobbsee> nixternal: better than your vista ones
[06:39] <DaSkreech> See.. I could answer you in Simese
[06:39] <DaSkreech> Cancel Or allow?
[06:39] <nixternal> *grumble*
[06:39] <DaSkreech> Heehee :)
[06:40] <nixternal> dude, that is no f'n joke about the cancel or allow junk
[06:40] <nixternal> one of my best friends, she just bought a new laptop and it is soooooo slow
[06:40] <DaSkreech> I had to press 6 of those to click one button
[06:40] <nixternal> it is a crazy fast rig, but vista is god awful on it
[06:40] <DaSkreech> was really annoying
[06:42] <Hobbsee> oh way cool.  sway is actually a real song, too.
[06:44] <DaSkreech> I'm listening to banana_blaster.mp3
[06:44] <DaSkreech> The BNL ones are a little too much
[06:46] <Hobbsee> BNL?
[06:46] <DaSkreech> Bare naked Ladies
[06:46] <DaSkreech> In any case they apparently have a full sims album
[06:47] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[06:47] <DaSkreech> I could probably do that with DMB but I actually like BNL lyrics so it's a bit off putting
[07:14] <Hobbsee> gah.  too many bugs.
[07:45] <DaSkreech> Well they just started shooting up my area
[07:46] <DaSkreech> Guess it's bed time
[07:52] <DaSkreech>  Ok yeah really
[07:52] <DaSkreech> getting closer now
[07:52] <DaSkreech> Night
[09:47] <_StefanS_> morning
[09:50] <Hobbsee> morning!
[09:51] <_StefanS_> hey hobbs
[11:33] <Riddell> new k3b is out
[01:43] <Riddell> _czessi: when should I get the poster stand sent?
[02:20] <Riddell> Nightrose: how would you fancy merging qcomicbook?
[02:20] <Nightrose> Riddell: sorry - very busy learning for my exam next monday :-(
[02:20] <Riddell> ooh, good luck
[02:21] <Nightrose> ;-) thx
[02:21] <Nightrose> 2 months of no life for me *g*
[02:25] <Hobbsee> greetings
[02:25] <ScottK> Greetings Hobbsee
[02:26] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:31] <ScottK> Well I've upgraded to Gutsy now.  It at least feels faster to start with.
[02:31] <Hobbsee> woo!
[02:33] <ScottK> Upgrading from Feisty + KDE 3.5.7 to Gutsy I got a number of file conflicts - package kyyy tried to install file whatever, but whatever was installed by package kzzz.  Is this known/being worked are would a report be useful?
[02:33] <Hobbsee> a bug report of them all would be useful.  please target it to tribe 4
[02:34] <ScottK> OK.  I was afraid you were going to say that.  Good thing I took notes.
[02:34] <Hobbsee> as in, it's not feature freeze and such yet, so everything still moves around a bit
[02:34] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:34] <Hobbsee> i know about the libkdepim file conflict
[02:34] <Hobbsee> but nothing else
[02:34] <ScottK> Which package do I file the bug against, the conflictor or the conflictee?
[02:35] <Hobbsee> kubuntu-meta will do
[02:35] <ScottK> OK.  WIll do.
[02:36] <ScottK> I verified the gnupg changes we did and they are good.
[02:36] <Hobbsee> \o/
[02:37] <ScottK> BTW, dunno if you noticed, but Kmail GPG and S/MIME by default were the only Gutsy changes in that section of the last UWN.
[02:38] <Hobbsee> yeah...we need to find some more
[02:38] <Hobbsee> the recent kde4 snapshot would be news, but we dont want people running it, and filing billiions of bugs
[02:38] <ScottK> I would encourage people to just go to the wiki page for the next UWN and add stuff.  That's how the Kmail stuff got in there.
[02:39] <Hobbsee> sounds smart.
[02:39] <Hobbsee> i would encourage you to post that to the mailing list :)
[02:39] <ScottK> OK.  I'll add that to my list.
[02:39] <Hobbsee> as in, kubuntu-meta i'll get bug reports about.  although any predone bugs will be under their respective packages, fo course
[02:40] <ScottK> Sure.  I'll do my best on the packages.
[02:42] <Hobbsee> cool :)
[02:45] <ScottK> Hobbsee: For kdepim can all file conflicts go in that one bug or do you want one bug per conflict within kdepim?
[02:45] <Hobbsee> no, that one bug is great
[02:45] <ScottK> OK.
[02:45] <Hobbsee> (as all the conflicts are in one source package anyway)
[02:48] <ScottK> The bad news is that I found a lot more in kdepim.  The good news is I installed every binary package in kdepim, so this should be all of them.
[02:49] <Hobbsee> great :)
[02:49] <Hobbsee> we do need to test this later anyway, so it's all good :)
[02:52] <ScottK> OK.  Bug #119664 is commented.  Kdepim was about 75% of the problem.  Off to do the rest.
[02:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 119664 in kdepim "Kubuntu upgrade from Feisty to Gutsy failed due to conflicting file in kdepimlibs" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119664
[02:53] <Hobbsee> great :)
[03:40] <ScottK> OK.  Done filing bugs for the moment.
[03:41] <Riddell> ScottK: upgrade bugs?
[03:41] <ScottK> Yeah
[03:42] <ScottK> BTW, that update-maanger bug for low memory systems is going to be a bitch to fix.
[03:42] <Hobbsee> hiya Riddell!
[03:43] <mhb> ScottK: which one?
[03:43] <ScottK> mhb: gimme a sec and I'll get you the number.
[03:44] <Riddell> Hobbsee!
[03:44] <Hobbsee> :D
[03:44] <Riddell> ScottK: you said it was due to a large list?
[03:44] <ScottK> I think so or too much information cached.
[03:45] <Tonio_> yop
[03:45] <Riddell> ScottK: what makes you think that?
[03:45] <ScottK> Bug #107188
[03:45] <Hobbsee> i think i know what's up with that bug, i'll have a look sometime
[03:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 107188 in update-manager "[MASTER]  [kde]  Upgrade tool crashed with " Cannot allocate memory" (edgy -> feisty)" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107188
[03:46] <Riddell> ScottK: the problem is in the forkpty function of the embedded konsole I'm sure
[03:46] <Hobbsee> oh, not that one.  imeant the conflict one
[03:47] <mhb> ScottK: it's not really about not having memory, although it tends to show only on lower memory systems
[03:47] <ScottK> Riddell: OK.  I traced it as far as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/107188/comments/60 where python goes from ~120mb to ~750 mb in less than one second.
[03:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 107188 in update-manager "[MASTER]  [kde]  Upgrade tool crashed with " Cannot allocate memory" (edgy -> feisty)" [High,Confirmed] 
[03:47] <ScottK> OK.
[03:47] <Riddell> ScottK: but if that were the case it would mean the gtk frontend had the same issue
[03:48] <ScottK> That's true.
[03:48] <mhb> ScottK: and it's an evil one, gdebi-kde is plagued by this one, too
[03:48] <ScottK> OK.
[03:49] <mhb> ScottK: I am quite certain it's a KDE-only bug, related to python-kde and konsole kpart
[03:49] <ScottK> OK.
[03:49] <ScottK> Well I got as far as the memory bloat happened while executing the commented line in update-manager.  I took a stab at trying to follow things from there.
[03:50] <ScottK> My eyes got watery and I gave up and used the text mode installer.
[03:50] <ScottK> Which, if it were just the cache wouldn't have worked either.
[03:53] <mhb> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-kde3/+bug/117731
[03:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117731 in python-kde3 "Python crashes after attaching pty to a konsole kpart" [Undecided,New] 
[03:53] <mhb> ScottK: that is my attempt at finding some information
[03:54] <mhb> ScottK: the key that might help us fix this issue is that Edgy with pre-update repositories is not affected
[03:54] <ScottK> Interesting, but note that the update-manager bug was first filed against Edgy though.
[03:55] <mhb> ScottK: yes, edgy without pre update repositories is affected
[03:55] <ScottK> Ah.
[03:55] <mhb> ScottK: but with packages from those repos, it vanishes
[03:55] <ScottK> I see.
[03:56] <ScottK> I wonder what magic Riddell there?
[03:56] <mhb> ScottK: if you had the time, you might try installing a chroot edgy system and find the magic
[03:56] <ScottK> Too bad LP doesn't support bug dependencies.
[03:56] <ScottK> If...
[03:57] <ScottK> or maybe 1.5
[03:58] <mhb> ScottK: I'd say let's find the magic package / line of code that makes Edgy with pre-update repos tick :o)
[03:58] <manchicken> Is it just me, or is the kubuntu logo icon missing from the latest adept?
[04:00] <manchicken> Anybody know what changed in kdebase 3.5.7-1ubuntu12?
[04:00] <ScottK> mhb: Agreed that's the best approach, but if we get close to the beta without it fixed, it's an option.
[04:01] <Hobbsee> manchicken: aptitude changelog kdebase.
[04:01] <Hobbsee> manchicken: iirc, it was the kdesudo patch
[04:01] <manchicken> Righto.
[04:01] <manchicken> Lots of meta packages (kdm, kdesktop, etc), are showing up, too.
[04:02] <ScottK> mhb: Is there a deb-src repository for the pre-upgrade repos?
[04:03] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Neither aptitude nor adept can find that changelog.
[04:03] <manchicken> That actually makes me feel better about the changelog functionality in adept :)
[04:03] <Hobbsee> manchicken: because the binaries havent built yet
[04:03] <manchicken> Ah.
[04:03] <manchicken> Then why is it showing up in the repos?
[04:04] <mhb> ScottK: http://kubuntu.org/packages/kde-356-pre-feisty-upgrade/pool-edgy/python-kde3/
[04:04] <ryanakca> kwwii: Hey, did you change the logo? I'm currently trying to make a box with this kind of texture... http://www.enghelberg.com/eng/GLASS_FROSTED_COFFEE_MUGS10OZ.gif
[04:04] <mhb> ScottK: I'd bet on this package as the magic one
[04:04] <ScottK> OK
[04:05] <mhb> ScottK: sources are there, so if you had a minute of your time :o)
[04:05] <ScottK> Sure.
[04:05] <kwwii> ryanakca: nope, didn't find any time on the weekend
[04:05] <kwwii> ryanakca: isn't that pretty close to the look that we had in edgy/feisty?
[04:05] <ScottK> mhb: With your reduced test case, I might just get it.
[04:05] <ryanakca> Riddell: oh, merge qcomicbook? Anybody taken up that offer yet?
[04:05] <ryanakca> kwwii: umm. I don't remember.
[04:06] <kwwii> ;-)
[04:06] <mhb> ScottK: yes, installing one package is faster than upgrading the whole system :o)
[04:07] <ScottK> Not only that but the trace should be less overwhelming.
[04:08] <ryanakca> kwwii: ah, yes, http://debianadmin.com/copper/displayimage.php?album=78&pos=1 :)
[04:09] <ryanakca> hehe :)
[04:10] <ScottK> mhb: If I find the fix, will you do the Feisty SRU?
[04:10] <mhb> ScottK: okay
[04:10] <ryanakca> kwwii: I'll mess around and find something.
[04:10] <mhb> ScottK: I've never done a SRU before, so it might be good practice :o)
[04:11] <kwwii> ryanakca: we can probably simplify that quite a bit though
[04:11] <kwwii> I would definitely like to change the logo used in any casea
[04:11] <kwwii> case
[04:11] <ryanakca> the feisty one?
[04:11] <kwwii> yepp
[04:11] <Hobbsee> hiya kwwii :)
[04:13] <kwwii> Hobbsee: what? fat and bald?
[04:13] <Hobbsee> :P
[04:13] <kwwii> I bet there are a lot of them out there
[04:13] <Riddell> ryanakca: nope, please go ahead
[04:15] <mhb> kwwii: do you still have the Kubuntu Feisty usplash SVG on the net?
[04:15] <TheInfinity> Hobbsee: it changes in time ;)
[04:15] <Hobbsee> ah right
[04:17] <ryanakca> kwwii: hmm... mind tarballing all the Kubuntu/Ubuntu .svgs that you have/that I might need?
[04:18] <ryanakca> (aka, the logo & the old ones, and the old splash screen stuff)
[04:19] <kwwii> mhb: yepp, http://sinecera.de/kusplash_feisty_idea2b.svg
[04:19] <kwwii> ryanakca: well, there really is only the kdm and usplash stuff
[04:20] <kwwii> http://sinecera.de/feisty_kdm2_dark2b.svg
[04:20] <ryanakca> kwwii: *nods*, then the old KDM files? I have the feisty one, but no edgy
[04:21] <kwwii> http://sinecera.de/usplash_2fc.svg and http://sinecera.de/gdmFrom_2fc.svg is ubuntu
[04:21] <kwwii> I'll have to dig for the edgy version
[04:22] <ryanakca> kwwii: thanks :)
[04:23] <kwwii> http://sinecera.de/edgy_kdm_final_03c.svg
[04:23] <kwwii> the window part is the same in both of those, the only difference is the logo
[04:25] <mhb> kwwii: sorry to be such a bother, but that kubuntu upslash svg was without the progress bar, which is what I'm looking for ... do you happen to have one with the progress bar?
[04:25] <kwwii> the progress bar should be in another level which is just turned off
[04:26] <mhb> ah, sorry then :o)
[04:26] <kwwii> mhb: note that when you are working on the usplash you need to make sure that you do not use too many colors
[04:26] <kwwii> I was going to pretty much leave the usplash alone, except to make a brighter outline for the blue part
[04:26] <kwwii> the blue part of the progess bar, I mean
[04:27] <kwwii> but I would probably just open it in gimp and find one of the indexed colors that is already in the png file instead of starting fresh
[04:28] <Riddell> Tonio_: ping
[04:28] <Riddell> Tonio_: I may have thie --nonewdcop stuff working, how do I test it out for real?
[04:28] <Riddell> how do I have kcontrol launch admin mode with kdesudo instead of kdesu?
[04:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: just build the kdesudo package including your patch
[04:29] <mhb> kwwii: thank you
[04:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: the package includes a dpkg-divert to replace kdesu silently
[04:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: then just use systemsettings
[04:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: if it doesn't work, I'll check if another command line option is required, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't
[04:30] <Riddell> kdesu: Unknown option '-n'.
[04:30] <kwwii> mhb: no problem
[04:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: then we'll have to add this one too....
[04:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: it is probably the last missing option
[04:30] <mhb> Riddell: I guess you should be able to use your dcop to connect to the elevated app...
[04:31] <mhb> Riddell: which is the most *real* testing you can get, isn't it? :o)
[04:32] <Tonio_> mhb: -n is just to not cache the password
[04:32] <Tonio_> mhb: I think we should fake this option, as sudo is supposed to cache the passwords by default right ?
[04:33] <Tonio_> mhb: kdesudo should just accept the option and do nothing with it in my opinion
[04:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: what's your opinion on that point ?
[04:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: another option is to patch kdelibs not to use the -n for this
[04:33] <Tonio_> or kdebase depending where the code is :)
[04:34] <Riddell> "DCOPClient::attachInternal. Attach failed Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed"
[04:34] <Riddell> waa
[04:34] <mhb> yeah, I know that one well
[04:34] <mhb> :o)
[04:35] <Riddell> well, I'm out of ideas
[04:35] <mhb> Riddell: did you try the ICEAUTHORITY authentication?
[04:35] <Riddell> sure
[04:35] <Riddell> I've set ICEAUTHORITY to point to a file
[04:36] <Riddell> and run iceauth and added the dcop and ice bits
[04:36] <Riddell> set DCOPSERVER too of course
[04:36] <Riddell> and it should work
[04:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: strange....
[04:38] <mhb> strange and troubling
[04:39] <mhb> you were our best hope :o)
[04:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: can't a well acknowledge kde dev help a bt on that point ?
[04:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: I guess aseigo wouldn't reject you :)
[04:40] <Tonio_> or another one btw
[04:40] <Riddell> not entirely sure anyone would be willing to help us replace fundamental parts of an obsolete KDE version
[04:40] <Tonio_> hum, indeed
[04:41] <mhb> Riddell: could you perhaps make your changes available as a bzr branch (or perhaps commit them)?
[04:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: is the way you tested supposed to be compatible with the way original kdesu does it ?
[04:44] <Tonio_> or I'd sat "to work the same way"
[04:44] <Tonio_> s/sat/say
[04:45] <Riddell> yes, I think I know what the problem is, but now I have no idea how to fix it
[04:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll make a few tests with your code toonight
[04:47] <Tonio_> at the moment I just have to get my brain in peace, out of a computer
[04:47] <Tonio_> I think I'm a bit sick
[04:48] <Hobbsee> oh dear, not another one
[04:49] <manchicken> Tonio_: Wuddup homes?
[05:02] <Tonio_> manchicken: what ?
[05:02] <Tonio_> :)
[05:02] <manchicken> What's going on man?
[05:04] <manchicken> I'm making packages ;)
[05:04] <manchicken> I'm packing some kate plugins from kde-apps.
[05:04] <manchicken> I'm not sure I want to actually be a maintainer of them though.
[05:05] <manchicken> I just want them for my personal use.  If anybody else wants to maintain them, I'll send what I get when I'm done.
[05:05] <manchicken> Stupid debhelper scripts can't handle spaces in directory names.
[05:07] <manchicken> Wow, that was easy.
[05:08] <manchicken> That was really easy.
[05:08] <manchicken> There's no way that really worked...'
[05:16] <Tonio_> manchicken: I can review them and polish the packaging if you want :) but not today
[05:18] <Riddell> err, it seem to have started working
[05:18] <Riddell> ahem, I mean
[05:18] <Riddell> I'm a genius, I got it working exactly to plan
[05:19] <Hobbsee> yay, Riddell!
[05:21] <mhb> Riddell: don't worry, there's nobody here who doubts about you being genius :o)
[05:24] <Riddell> pushed to https://code.launchpad.net/~jr/kdesudo/nonewdcop if people want to try
[05:24] <Riddell> it still has all my debugging rubbish in it
[06:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: did it start working ?
[06:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: weird ;)
[06:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: will fix this toonight
[06:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: how about the -n option, did you have to add a fake one ?
[06:05] <Riddell> Tonio_: for now, I'm thinking it should run sudo -k for the user
[06:08] <Tonio_> Riddell: kdesudo should run with -k ?
[06:08] <Tonio_> why so ?
[06:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: oups, sorry I mussunderstood you, that's okay I got it now
[06:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll test your code toonight
[06:11] <ScottK> I'd appreciate a bit of troubleshooting advice...  Now that I've upgraded to Gutsy, I've no CPU fan and guidance-powermanager says battery not present plus (as it did in Feisty) CPU is at 0.  For the fan (most critically) and the battery question, where do I start?  guidance, hal, kernel, something else... ?
[06:15] <Riddell> acpi breakage
[06:16] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
[06:16] <Riddell> dunno where best to look, but it sounds low level
[06:21] <DaSkreech> What does kubuntu do when I leave the room?
[06:22] <Hobbsee> the gremlins come out
[06:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: kdesudo segfaults here
[06:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: tested in systemsettings/fonts installer
[06:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: does it work for you ?
[06:29] <Riddell> yes
[06:30] <DaSkreech> I'm guessing
[06:30] <DaSkreech> When I come back to my computer the CPU usage is 100%
[06:30] <ScottK> DaSkreech: Always or sometimes?
[06:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: args->isSet("newdcop");
[06:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: shouldn't that be "nonewdcop" instead ?
[06:31] <Riddell> no
[06:31] <Tonio_> ah...
[06:33] <ryanakca> Riddell: is qcomicbook on mom yet?
[06:33] <Riddell> ryanakca: yes, under universe-manual.html
[06:33] <DaSkreech> ScottK: Always sometimes :)
[06:34] <ScottK> OK.  Well updatedb runs once a day, so that wouldn't likely explain that.
[06:35] <Riddell> what does top say it is?
[06:35] <DaSkreech> As soon as I make a motion to see what is taking up that CPU usage it drops back down to normal
[06:35] <Riddell> coool
[06:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: out = fopen("/home/jr/OUT", "a+");
[06:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: I suspect that might not work here :)
[06:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: yep, that's the cause of the crash
[06:37] <Hobbsee> haha
[06:37] <Tonio_> Riddell: works when I create it, you are a genius :)
[06:37] <Riddell> oh phew
[06:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: just perfect appart from that :)
[06:39] <Riddell> groovy
[06:39] <Riddell> well I'm not having much luck with sudo -k
[06:39] <Riddell> it doesn't run it on the same pty so it doesn't get cancelled
[06:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: why using it ?
[06:40] <Riddell> Tonio_: for kdesudo -n
[06:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: I mean sdo caches passwords
[06:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: yeah I can figure out that
[06:40] <Riddell> yes, and -n is ment to forget them
[06:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: why not just making a fake option for kesu compatibility
[06:40] <Tonio_> ?
[06:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's what I suggested before that
[06:41] <DaSkreech> Is the choose best server still broken in Gutsy?
[06:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: I guess kdesu uses kdesu-stub, running as daemon, so no issues right ?
[06:43] <Tonio_> with the "no caching password" feature it has
[06:47] <Riddell> Tonio_: well yes, the problem is it doesn't cache at all :)
[06:47] <Riddell> that's why we're looking at kdesudo
[06:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: doesn't cache with sudo, but supposed to work with su
[06:50] <Tonio_> Riddell: at least that's why there is a -n option with kdesu :)
[06:51] <Tonio_> Riddell: it is not only a matter of cache for me, the point that kdesu doesn't match NOPASSWD sudoers entry is a pure pain for professional usage
[06:51] <Riddell> sure
[06:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: but thanks to everyone helping, we'll do it ;) except I can't see a solution for the -k issue
[06:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: except from a daemon working in the background or something, so that the pty stays the same...
[06:55] <Riddell> ug no, that's the sort of complexity we're trying to avoid
[06:55] <Riddell> I'm surprised sudo doesn't have a "remove all my timestamps" option
[06:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: yep, just works in a session only
[06:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: even with command line, sudo -k will not work if used in another tab....
[06:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's a bit stupid imho
[06:57] <DaSkreech> ScottK: Think I found it. Stray Firefox
[07:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: going back home, I'll be connected again at about 9H30
[07:04] <DaSkreech> Can I tie a PID to a Window title?
[07:05] <ryanakca> kwwii: http://blog.ryanak.ca/kdm_box_1.png ? Maybe move the drop shadow to the left? And give it more transparency...
[07:22] <DaSkreech> Hmm
[07:22] <DaSkreech> My Load is heading towards 5 now
[07:23] <Riddell> run top and keep it running and visible
[07:26] <DaSkreech> Only thing taking up significant resources is X
[07:26] <DaSkreech> and one random Konqueror which jumps up to the top then back down
[07:26] <Riddell> could be flash
[07:26] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[07:26] <Riddell> do you have strigi running?
[07:27] <DaSkreech> Kinda funny that the Konqueror window has been runing for about 20 hours longer than X
[07:27] <DaSkreech> Nope
[07:27] <DaSkreech> Can't get it to work nicely
[07:28] <DaSkreech> And load is down to 2
[07:28] <DaSkreech> I swear everytime I try to find out what's going on the system stops doing it
[07:29] <DaSkreech> down to 1.1 now
[07:51] <kwwii> re
[07:56] <ScottK> Is this right?  Bug #127778
[07:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127778 in gpgme "KDE4 needs GPGME 0.4.5 to compile" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127778
[07:56] <ScottK> Since neither Ubuntu nor Debian have a version that new, I'm guessing not.
[08:00] <kwwii> ryanakca: looking pretty good man!
[08:00] <kwwii> erm, assuming your a man :p
[08:02] <ryanakca> kwwii: thanks
[08:03] <ryanakca> Haha, yes. Unless 'Ryan' can be a girl's name as well.
[08:03] <DaSkreech> IT can
[08:03] <kwwii> well, you never know - don't want to be sexist on irc :p
[08:03] <ryanakca> nope. I guess you could devine 'Ryana' from ryanakca.
[08:04] <DaSkreech> From Kansas City. America ?
[08:04] <ScottK> DaSkreech: You're from Kansas City?
[08:04] <DaSkreech> No Ryana is
[08:04] <ScottK> Ah.
[08:04] <ryanakca> hmm. I'll touch it up, and then go to the pool... and then I'll merge qcomicbook and get back to the groupware server
[08:05] <ScottK> ryanakca: Me too (from KC).
[08:05] <ryanakca> DaSkreech: no, RYAN A. Kavanagh CAnada.
[08:05] <ScottK> Ah.
[08:05] <kwwii> ScottK: I was born in kansas city
[08:05] <ScottK> Where?
[08:05] <DaSkreech> Ryan a. Ryana Potato Potatoe
[08:05] <ryanakca> If I moved to the ux, I guess I'd become ryanakuk, hehe
[08:06] <kwwii> ScottK: actually, I was born in a hospital in kc, we lived on a horse farm in peculiar
[08:06] <ScottK> Ah ha.  Not so far away.
[08:08] <kwwii> we have quite a few kubuntu devs from the midwest
[08:08] <ScottK> AFAICT, only imbrandon hasn't escaped that immediate area.
[08:14] <kwwii> ScottK: nixternal is from the chicago area
[08:14] <ScottK> Yes.  Manchicken too.
[08:15] <ScottK> I was commenting on escaping from the Kansas City area.
[08:17] <ScottK> The Baltimore/Washington area doesn't seem to have inspired a lot of joiners.  Just me (and crimsun now that he's moved here) afaik.
[08:19] <kwwii> well, I escaped kc big-time :-)
[08:20] <DaSkreech> whee Load of 10
[08:28] <ryanakca> kwwii: I'm quite pleased with it and it's metalic look, but, any suggestions? http://blog.ryanak.ca/kdm_mockup_with_wallpaper_1.png (I'd wait for your updated logo before including it in k-d-s if we do keep it though.)
[08:31] <kwwii> ryanakca: looks nice...one suggestion though, we should probably put the logo back inside the box (like dapper and before) if we don't make it semi-transparent
[08:32] <nixternal> gnomefreak: you around at all?
[08:32] <kwwii> ryanakca: I will do some work on the logo soon (tomorrow or the next day)
[08:35] <ryanakca> kwwii: ok. ping me when you're done :)
[08:37] <kwwii> ryanakca: will do
[08:44] <manchicken> Sweet.  My money for my new machine showed up.
[08:46] <DaSkreech> Chicken Feed?
[08:48] <rbrunhuber> oh cool manchicken. my ubuntu vserver was just initialised...
[08:48] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: Groovy.  Ubuntu server is nice :)
[08:49] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : it was really hard to get though. You can have debian on every corner but ubuntu ...
[08:50] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : was thinking very long about debian or ubuntu. But man, I believe in (k)ubuntu so I opted for ubuntu.
[08:51] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: That's a good lad :)
[08:57] <Riddell> it's Hobbsee's birthday?
[09:03] <rbrunhuber> Hi Riddell: As I told you I played around with the kde4 packages. Startup was quite seamless, but every single entry in the menus are doubled so I do not know what is the kde4 variant of a program and what kde3. So i had a nice segfault party :-)
[09:05] <ScottK> mhb: Still around?
[09:07] <Riddell> rbrunhuber: yeah, that will happen
[09:07] <Riddell> rbrunhuber: thanks
[09:08] <Riddell> rbrunhuber: do you think it's still useful for me to announce it on kubuntu.org
[09:09] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Was
[09:10] <rbrunhuber> Riddell : I think it is just "hot", so if you include the "only for developers" stance and maybe a link to the live cd it is worth a news on kubuntu.org. And at least it will stop annoying beings like me to ask you how to use it :-)
[09:10] <Riddell> fabo: are you packaging ksniffer  0.3?
[09:10] <Riddell> fabo: I suspect it needs X-KDE-RootOnly=true added to the .desktop file, from talking to slacky
[09:15] <manchicken> Sweet.  The Dell is on its way.
[09:15] <DaSkreech> rbrunhuber: For server? Why?
[09:16] <fabo> Riddell: ok, i'll add it
[09:16] <rbrunhuber> DaSkreech: ???
[09:17] <DaSkreech> rbrunhuber: You said you believe in kubuntu.
[09:17] <DaSkreech> What about it makes it a better server than debian ?
[09:17] <rbrunhuber> DaSkreech : Yes I believe in kubuntu and ubuntu (on the desktop). This is way I preferred ubuntu over debian.
[09:18] <rbrunhuber> DaSkreech : way=why
[09:18] <DaSkreech> Ah Thought you were installing a server
[09:19] <rbrunhuber> DaSkreech: No i rent a vserver running on edgy today.
[09:19] <DaSkreech> Ok
[09:26] <manchicken> Riddell: Do you know if there's anything fancy or non-standard about the OEM Dell's?
[09:26] <rbrunhuber> DaSkreech : It does not make ubuntu a better server than debian. I just have a ubuntu server running at home so I hope i can copy, shake and paste most of the config files. And why not try something new, everybody has a debian or suse server.
[09:26] <manchicken> I just ordered one.
[09:27] <DaSkreech> Ha ha :)
[09:27] <manchicken> It'll be here in about 3 weeks or so, and I plan on kubuntufying it right away.
[09:28] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : I have a dell laptop. The only thing i had troubles was the wlan card. I swapped the broadcom against a intel and everything is running fine now. The maintainer of the dell kernel module claims they have dirty hacks in their bios though.
[09:29] <DaSkreech> manchicken: Ask them for a Made for Ubuntu Sticker :)
[09:29] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: Well the OEM Ubuntu Dells have the intel 3945 in there out of the box.
[09:29] <manchicken> DaSkreech: I think they already put those on there.
[09:29] <DaSkreech> Seriously?
[09:29] <DaSkreech> That's cool
[09:30] <DaSkreech> Can you buy them separate ?
[09:33] <manchicken> I don't believe so.
[09:34] <manchicken> All of the OEMs seem to be putting Intel wifi cards in.
[09:35] <manchicken> I'm excited :)
[09:36] <rbrunhuber> intel made a clever move (spent it's marketing bucks wisely) a lot of people want a centrino now. I think that's the reason why most oems plug those cards now.
[09:37] <rbrunhuber> pcs with the "sleeping heart sticker" = centrino sell a lot better than those without even if the latter machine is better for the same price.
[09:38] <manchicken> I think it's the pricepoint.
[09:38] <manchicken> It's just a shame that Intel decided to give Free Software the finger, that's all.
[09:39] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : what?
[09:39] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : i thought the intel cards are the best supported now?!
[09:39] <manchicken> Intel snubbed Free Software hackers when it came time to write linux kernel drivers.
[09:40] <manchicken> IIRC, the support is in the form of proprietary drivers.
[09:40] <manchicken> Which is not really support.
[09:40] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : i thought they use a firmware now like everyone?
[09:41] <manchicken> Realtek from what I understand has several wifi cards that don't require any proprietary software.
[09:41] <ScottK> Just a reminder (while everyone here is busy slamming Intel) that they do a bang up job in free video driver support.
[09:42] <rbrunhuber> don't know just had a real hard time with a rtl8187 and a ralink rt73 usb stick now
[09:42] <manchicken> ScottK: True that.  It's a product-by-product issue, not a company-by-company issue.
[09:42] <manchicken> ScottK: Even Microsoft releases Free Software ;)
[09:44] <ScottK> Well at least the part of Intel that does their video appears to really get it.  My desktop has embedded intel graphics and I've never had to install any proprietary video drivers.
[09:44] <rbrunhuber> But they often opt to implement only have the functionality (see rotor ). They don't need blops because they just do not implement the interesting things :-)
[09:45] <manchicken> ScottK: Yup.  I'm looking forward to my i945 as well.
[09:45] <manchicken> Although I don't know if it's the 945 in my machine, or their newer one...
[09:45] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: I don't think I understand what you just said there.
[09:45] <manchicken> Oh, you're talking about realtek?
[09:46] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : no i was just talking about microsoft.
[09:46] <manchicken> From what I understand, there are fully functional wireless cards requiring zero non-free software.
[09:46] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: Oh, no, Microsoft has some free software projects.  They just depend on non-free OS libraries.
[09:47] <manchicken> And require non-free IDEs to compile.
[09:47] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : i could not find a completly free supported wlan usb stick.
[09:47] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: USB sticks are a limited breed.
[09:47] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: I think PCMCIA has the best free software support.
[09:48] <manchicken> Maybe PCI, too.
[09:48] <rbrunhuber> The coolest one was a rt73 on ubuntu feisty. It worked like the turbo button on my ancient 386 DX 40. If you plug it in the machine gets a real snail. If you plug it out again it dies.
[09:49] <manchicken> Nice.
[09:49] <manchicken> I just hope that the /Dell relationship
[09:49] <manchicken> I just hope that the Canonical/Dell relationship yields fewer problems like this and not more of the same.
[09:50] <rbrunhuber> Not nice. Because there is a working driver it's just not in the ubuntu repository. It's the serialmonkey driver.
[09:51] <rbrunhuber> And in launchpad the bugs keep stacking up but they are all marked as wishlist. Bad thing!
[09:51] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: Are you on feisty?
[09:52] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: I doubt you'll see something like that backported to feisty.  You may see it in gutsy though.  Especially if you work on it and get a sponsor :)
[09:53] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : Yes installed them on two different feisty machines the last days. The first bugreports seem to come from the dapper area. So this seems to be more a no-show than a show in feisty.
[09:53] <rbrunhuber> show in gutsy
[09:54] <Riddell> manchicken: they make some changes I believe but I don't know what they are and they're not very significant, mostly hardware support I suspect
[09:55] <manchicken> Riddell: I'm hoping for some artwork, too :)
[09:55] <Riddell> I don't think they change it
[09:55] <Riddell> you'd have to ask someone who has one
[09:55] <manchicken> Riddell: It'd be nice if it came with some built-in widescreen friendly wallpapers.
[09:56] <manchicken> We don't have very much widescreen friendly artwork.
[09:56] <manchicken> I can't really complain that loud though, as I cannot do the artwork thing at all :)
[09:58] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : I'd prefer to put more effort in my "easy smartcard for every one vision"
[09:59] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: What exactly is that?
[10:00] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : don't laugh at me. It is just a thought that keeps me busy.
[10:00] <cyber_cop> Hi kubuntu developers
[10:00] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: I'm not laughing.  I'm confused.  I don't know what you're talking about :)
[10:01] <manchicken> cyber_cop: Hi cop of cyber.
[10:01] <cyber_cop> I Turkish kubuntu user
[10:01] <cyber_cop> slow english
[10:01] <cyber_cop> bad speak
[10:01] <manchicken> cyber_cop: Ah.  What's goin' on?
[10:01] <cyber_cop> my problem graphics card
[10:02] <cyber_cop> my chipset via P4M900
[10:02] <cyber_cop> not installed
[10:02] <cyber_cop> graphics card via chrome9
[10:02] <cyber_cop> not intalled
[10:02] <cyber_cop> help me please
[10:03] <manchicken> cyber_cop: Have you tried asking in #kubuntu?  There are a lot more folks with a much more diverse hardware set there.
[10:03] <manchicken> Whereas I've never even heard of that card.
[10:04] <cyber_cop> kubuntu not support
[10:04] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : Think of this: If you see a company with a working smartcard infrastructure everything is totally easy: Logon to your desktop: Plugin smartcard, enter passphrase, done. Sign email:  Plugin smartcard, enter passphrase, done. Login to a remote server: you guess it: Plugin smartcard, enter passphrase, done.
[10:04] <cyber_cop> help please
[10:05] <manchicken> cyber_cop: #kubuntu is support.
[10:05] <manchicken> cyber_cop: That is precisely what #kubuntu is for.
[10:05] <cyber_cop> yes support channel
[10:05] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : Why don't we have this in linux?
[10:05] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: Ah.  I've heard of that before.  As long as it's not using RFID I'm cool with it.
[10:06] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: Two reasons: lack of hardware, we tend to have higher security expectations.
[10:06] <cyber_cop> manchicken: my speak english bad
[10:06] <cyber_cop> kubuntu channel writes quickly quickly quickly quickly
[10:07] <manchicken> cyber_cop: This isn't the support channel.  #kubuntu is the support channel.  This is the development channel.  I have never heard of your graphics card or your problem before.
[10:07] <manchicken> cyber_cop: I really think you'd find more support in #kubuntu or on wiki.ubuntu.com
[10:07] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : no rfid or any other obscure things. "Just" a smartcard or usb token, some wizards or assistants and a ton of software/application support needed. :-)
[10:08] <cyber_cop> :((  I'm go
[10:08] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: If you do come up with something like that, make sure you take different architectures into account.
[10:08] <cyber_cop> format to kubuntu
[10:08] <cyber_cop> because problem graphics card
[10:08] <cyber_cop> and not support
[10:08] <manchicken> cyber_cop: You will find support for the graphics card in #kubuntu.
[10:08] <cyber_cop> I search search
[10:08] <manchicken> cyber_cop: We don't usually deal with configuration or hardware issues in here.
[10:09] <cyber_cop> not support
[10:09] <cyber_cop> web link please
[10:09] <manchicken> cyber_cop: Yes, support.  They can help you in #kubuntu.
[10:09] <cyber_cop> link adress
[10:09] <rbrunhuber> cyber_cop: Please try asking in #kubuntu. Normally people who support you write your name at the beginning of the line so you can easily follow even if your english is slow
[10:09] <manchicken> cyber_cop: I don't have one.
[10:09] <cyber_cop> via P4M900 chipsett
[10:09] <manchicken> cyber_cop: Ask in #kubuntu
[10:10] <cyber_cop> I dont no
[10:10] <cyber_cop> slow english
[10:10] <cyber_cop> my send support link
[10:10] <cyber_cop> driver install link
[10:11] <cyber_cop> please
[10:11] <rbrunhuber> cyber_cop: let's go to #kubuntu. Follow me!
[10:11] <cyber_cop> erenko:
[10:11] <cyber_cop> selamlar
[10:12] <cyber_cop> yaw bana yardm eden yokmu burda
[10:12] <erenko> selam cyber_cop
[10:12] <cyber_cop> ingilizcem ok iyi deil
[10:12] <cyber_cop> selamlar
[10:12] <erenko> Senin iin zld
[10:12] <cyber_cop> adamlara derdimi anlatamadm
[10:12] <erenko> TR kanalna bak
[10:12] <cyber_cop> bakyom tamam reis
[10:12] <Riddell> ?
[10:13] <manchicken> I think I'll need to brush up on my turkish.
[10:13] <erenko> sorry,
[10:13] <manchicken> No, don't apologize :)
[10:14] <manchicken> He was having a hard time understanding our English :)
[10:14] <erenko> :)
[10:14] <manchicken> I do think he would find more help for his situation in #kubuntu (is there a turkish channel for #kubuntu?)
[10:14] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : the problem up to now is you can get all the functionality you want but you end up with dozens highly customized configs and an large array of smartcards. One is not supported by gpg the next not with pkcs11 next not with pkcs15 one not with hbci... and so on.
[10:15] <DaSkreech> Riddell: ping
[10:15] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: I think anything that we do towards that end needs to be standardized against gnupg.
[10:15] <erenko> Turkish channel #kubuntu-turkiye - Turkish web site : www.kubuntu-tr.org
[10:16] <manchicken> That seems to be the standard for encryption and protection in GNU/Linux.  Makes sense to stick with what works and is already established.
[10:16] <cyber_cop> erenko: my channell #kubuntu.tr
[10:16] <cyber_cop> I love kubuntu
[10:16] <cyber_cop> :))
[10:16] <manchicken> cyber_cop: And kubuntu loves you.
[10:16] <manchicken> But only platonically.
[10:16] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : Although i did not understand what you meant with: we tend to have higher security expectations?
[10:16] <DaSkreech> Wow
[10:16] <DaSkreech> !tr
[10:16] <ubotu> Turk ubuntu kullanicilari, turkce yardim yada geyik icin #ubuntu-tr hizmetinizde.
[10:16] <DaSkreech> That so totally rocks
[10:16] <cyber_cop> manchicken: thank you very much
[10:17] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: Most smart card implementations I've seen are pretty insecure.
[10:17] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: As many of them use weak encryption, or hold keys in memory.
[10:18] <manchicken> Holding keys in memory is bad.
[10:18] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : i've never looked in one in detail. But i think this should be fixable.
[10:19] <manchicken> rbrunhuber: If someone were to do a smartcard implementation well, I think it would actually be more along the lines of GnuPG with your secret key on a USB stick.
[10:19] <manchicken> But then you need to make sure that you have that backed up and that you never let anybody borrow that stick.
[10:19] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : Everyone is cooking his own soup. Nobody which is recognised in the public seems to put energy in this. It would really cool if for instance Canonical/Ubuntu would push this.
[10:20] <ScottK> IIRC from looking at the source package, I think that some of the smart card support in gnupg2 is not compiled into the Ubuntu packages.
[10:20] <rbrunhuber> manchicken : As you said keys in memory are bad. In one case because the key might be readable in the other because the key might not be "readable"
[10:21] <ScottK> A first thing to look at would be to look at gnupg/gnupg2 and make sure we are using all of what we have already.
[10:21] <rbrunhuber> A lot of packages in ubuntu are missing smartcard support. also true for ssh-client.
[10:23] <rbrunhuber> Let's try this top-down. Let's assume no security problems, no arch problems, maybe not even hardware/software support problems.
[10:23] <ScottK> On a more Kubuntu oriented note, someone might want to work on porting pinentry-qt from qt3 to qt4....
[10:24] <rbrunhuber> No comes the setting: Imagine: You install *buntu. No comes the choice: Create regular user or create smartcard user.
[10:26] <rbrunhuber> if you opt for sc user a private/public key pair for your user to login is created. pam is configured to let you in with the key. the pub key is placed in the right folder ~/.ssh/authorized_keys or something.
[10:28] <rbrunhuber> I see this is getting to far. I just should try to write this down in a document and just publish it.
[10:30] <rbrunhuber> If nobody wants to read it I rewrite a few pages and republish it as a sci-fi novel :-9
[10:31] <ScottK> It's a good idea for a spec.
[10:32] <ScottK> You ought to be connected to the ldap/pam stuff that's going on in #ubuntu-server too.
[10:32] <Riddell> DaSkreech: pong
[10:33] <rbrunhuber> ScottK : Visited them last time they seem to hack a tool called "authconfig".
[10:33] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Gutsy+1 is LTS ?
[10:33] <Riddell> yes
[10:33] <Riddell> 99% certainly anyway
[10:34] <DaSkreech> OK
[10:34] <ScottK> Riddell: LTS for KDE3, KDE4, or both?
[10:34] <DaSkreech>  so we should have LTS -> LTS upgrade ?
[10:34] <Riddell> KDE 3
[10:34] <Riddell> DaSkreech: yes
[10:37] <ScottK> rbrunhuber: I was able to get changes made in the gnupg packages to support having Kmail PGP and S/MIME encryption, so I think you sould follow up on this idea and see what you can do.
[10:37] <rbrunhuber> ScottK : I'm a bit afraid to get my fingers on such security related packages.
[10:38] <ScottK> rbrunhuber: Since you aren't core-deb you can't break anything.
[10:38] <ScottK> rbrunhuber: I'd suggest write out your spec and then discuss it with keescook.  He's open to outside contributions, but won't let you do anything stupid.
[10:41] <rbrunhuber> ScottK : Thanks for the hint just wrote down the name.
[10:42] <ScottK> rbrunhuber: Remember it's people like you making good ideas and running with them that make Kubuntu better.
[10:42] <rbrunhuber> ScottK :  Where can I find keescook normally?
[10:43] <ScottK> #ubuntu-motu or #ubuntu-devel
[10:43] <ScottK> He's at Ubuntu Live just now I believe.
[10:44] <rbrunhuber> Thank you all. Have to go now. See You.
[10:52] <DaSkreech> !support
[10:52] <ubotu> the official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org
[10:54] <screemo> Whats that kfindapp thing called ?
[10:55] <_StefanS_> uhm.. kappfinder..
[11:15] <birthdaylogger> Riddell: for KWin's new video recording effect you might want to checkout http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6155 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6156
[11:23] <DaSkreech> I guess that doesn't get looked at until the gutsy+1 interation?
[11:28] <birthdaylogger> I thought KDE 4.0 builds will be available for gutsy?
[11:28] <DaSkreech> They will
[11:28] <birthdaylogger> just makes sense to support an ultimate set of features IMO
[11:33] <ScottK> We are supposed to have KDE 4 packages in Universe for Gutsy.
[11:39] <DaSkreech> And gutsy+1 I'd assume
[11:39] <DaSkreech> Then... main! :)
[11:42] <mhb> DaSkreech: I'm not sure if they get into main unless KDE4 will be the default
[11:42] <DaSkreech> Then... main! :)
[11:42] <DaSkreech> Muwahahahaha
[11:42] <mhb> DaSkreech: and Riddell already stated KDE3 will be the default for the next LTS
[11:43] <DaSkreech> mhb: Umm yeah. that covers gutsy+1
[11:44] <mhb> DaSkreech: I'm not very happy about it, to be honest
[11:45] <DaSkreech> about which?
[11:45] <mhb> DaSkreech: KDE4 being default in Kubuntu one year after it is released
[11:46] <DaSkreech> mhb: prefer it the day it's released?
[11:48] <imbrandon> ScottK, kwwii, DaSkreech , yea i'm in KC ( Kansas City ) , kwwii is from here too ( although in germany now iirc )
[11:48] <imbrandon> anyhow yea, i'm still in the midwest swing
[11:48] <ScottK> imbrandon: Hi.  I grew up there, but haven't lived there since before college.
[11:48] <imbrandon> i grew up here, moved away for 10+ years, then moved back about a year ago and bought a house
[11:49] <imbrandon> what part of KC did youi grow up in ?
[11:49] <mhb> DaSkreech: no (KDE4 will be buggy to some extent), but the gutsy+1 seemed to be the optimal time, with enough time to build packages, do some custom artwork and stuff
[11:49] <ScottK> imbrandon: Kansas City, KS, Leawood, KS, and Overland Park, KS (my Dad still lives there).
[11:49] <imbrandon> ahh cool, i work in OP
[11:50] <DaSkreech> mhb: Maybe you can petition Riddell for a KDE4 CD with support but the Official LTS line is KDE3
[11:50] <ScottK> imbrandon: Where?
[11:50] <imbrandon> i live in raymore now ( just a tad south of KC )
[11:50] <ScottK> Yep.  I've been there.
[11:50] <imbrandon> ScottK, GSI ( bigest PCI compliant hosting company in the USA )
[11:50] <ScottK> thikning/thinking
[11:51] <imbrandon> sprint closed down their datacenter and colo's with us now
[11:51] <ScottK> Interesting.
[11:51] <imbrandon> bout 6month sto a year ago
[11:51] <imbrandon> s/sto/to
[11:51] <mhb> DaSkreech: haha :o) I am the last person that wants to create tensions in the team
[11:51] <imbrandon> actualy i do know of a good colo place there
[11:51] <DaSkreech> mhb: What tension?
[11:52] <imbrandon> my buddy used to have a few servers there
[11:52] <ScottK> imbrandon: Cool (for a small business)?
[11:52] <imbrandon> lemme dig up the number and i'll mail it to ya
[11:52] <imbrandon> yea
[11:52] <ScottK> Thanks.
[11:52] <imbrandon> he only had like 3 or 4 servers there
[11:52] <imbrandon> real reasonable
[11:52] <DaSkreech> I think that Riddell would probably want a KDE4 around that time already but the issue is LTS
[11:52] <DaSkreech> Might it be possible to have a LTS KDE3 Cd and a non LTS KDE4 ?
[11:53] <imbrandon> possible, not highly likely
[11:53] <DaSkreech> so it would move from undefault unsupported KDE4 CD to undefault supoprted KDE4 CD to default supported KDE4 kubuntu ?
[11:53] <ScottK> See you all later.
[12:01] <mhb> DaSkreech: you see, we're much more a community project than Ubuntu is. That means we can do whatever we want, provided somebody actually does it :o)
[12:02] <DaSkreech> mhb: as long as it doesn't deal with support :) Unless you have someone willing to be awake 24-7 for a few years
[12:04] <mhb> DaSkreech: yeah, support :o)
[12:04] <mhb> DaSkreech: another dangerous topic.
[12:04] <DaSkreech> ha ha
[12:04] <DaSkreech> Well.. that's the only topic as far as I know
[12:05] <DaSkreech> is there another issue on the table?
[12:05] <mhb> DaSkreech: from what I know, C. is not making much money from Kubuntu, so they're not planning to put more money into it
[12:05] <DaSkreech> I'm not sure what that has to do with KDE4
[12:06] <mhb> DaSkreech: I said "another" dangerous topic. There may be a connection, who knows :o)
[12:06] <mhb> anyway, time for bed, see you DaSkreech and all the others
[12:06] <DaSkreech> What was the first dangerous topic?
[12:07] <DaSkreech> Damn you mhb!!!