[01:11] <veronika>  i looking fore a link so i can try to install ubuntu on my sony ericsson p990i
[02:56] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Hi. Have you tried image-creator latelly? It's crashing on me when I try to add a functional set.
[02:58] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: yes, I'm using it right now.
[02:58] <agoliveira> Have you being able to add a fset?
[03:01] <Mithrandir> yes, but I use the command line mode; unsure if that matters
[03:01] <agoliveira> Hmmm... didn't try by command line yet as I'm documenting the guy. Can you show me the command line you're using?
[03:02] <agoliveira> s/guy/gui :)
[03:02] <Mithrandir> bzr branch http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/bzr/mobile-image-runner/
[03:03] <agoliveira> Hmmm... interesting. I'll check it out. Thanks.
[03:07] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Did you create this script for your use only or are you thinking about publishing it as part of the project?
[03:08] <tko> did you guys collect a list of surprising dependencies, extra work needed, etc. around hildon somewhere?
[03:08] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: it's being used for building the images in the DC.
[03:09] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Ok.
[03:09] <Mithrandir> tko: we have the branches, but they need a bit of work to be split into something a bit more useful for you as upstreams.
[03:10] <agoliveira> tko: Hi Tommy. Right now the branches are a bit crude to be of use for you directly...
[03:10] <Mithrandir> tko: a bit thing, though: the soname of hildon-1 is libhildon-1.so, not libhildon1, so you should rename your binary package to match ours.  (And yes, I know that's going to be painful)
[03:10] <agoliveira> Hmmm... more or less Tollef answered 10 seconds before me :)
[03:10] <tko> I meant just a short list of 'icons missing', 'l10n screwed up', 'debhelper5' ...
[03:11] <tko> 'no startup script'
[03:11] <agoliveira> tko: We didn't paid attention to it yet.
[03:11] <tko> migrations painful? you've no idea :)
[03:14] <tko> I was just thinking of adding known issues to http://live.gnome.org/Hildon/Roadmap so that we get more clear understanding of things to do
[03:16] <Mithrandir> ah
[03:16] <humbolto> apt-get install ubuntu-mobile does not install any X server.
[03:17] <humbolto> I installed x-window-system. How to start the window environment. Is there a special session I can start from gdm?
[03:18] <Mithrandir> you probably want to pull in ume-config-samsung-q1-ultra or make a similar package for your device.
[03:18] <humbolto> my device is a normal laptop.
[03:19] <humbolto> or right now a vmware VM.
[03:20] <humbolto> Can I not just start the environment which I installed?
[03:21] <Mithrandir> you might get what you expect if you run start-hildon
[03:21] <Mithrandir> hm, no
[03:21] <Mithrandir> that expects your X server to be on :1
[03:21] <Mithrandir> try editing start-hildon to assume :0 for the DISPLAY and run it, and you might get what you expect.
[03:23] <humbolto> Is there any more documentation available?
[03:24] <humbolto> I want to use ubuntu-mobile on my old Vaio C1 Picturebook as default window-manager environment. So I can use it again, since default ubuntu seems to be too heavy for the 265MB RAM.
[03:25] <Mithrandir> you probably don't want ubuntu-mobile, but rather xubuntu or something similar, then
[03:28] <humbolto> xubuntu is not much better! No, trust me, what I want is ubuntu-mobile.
[03:28] <humbolto> xubuntu sucks!
[03:29] <Mithrandir> I really doubt you want ubuntu-mobile, but if you feel like trying, please do.
[03:29] <humbolto> This is one of these cases, OSS gets used for, which was not intended by the devs when they started it. I predict many people will want to use ubuntu-mobile on their old laptops.
[03:30] <humbolto> They want to use them just for a certain set of tasks. It does not have to be all that versatile anymore. We have new laptops for that.
[03:31] <humbolto> We want to hook it up to the stereo or TV, use it for email and watch movies. That's it. Oh and some basic games.
[03:31] <humbolto> Everything that is provided by ubuntu-mobile.
[03:31] <humbolto> Make your old laptop to be a Nokia N800.
[03:31] <agoliveira> humbolto: You can give it a try but this is not what the UME is being designed for. Also remember that the project is very new so we don't really know what will happens with your notebook.
[03:32] <agoliveira> humbolto: It might work with the generic kernel tough.
[03:32] <humbolto> agoliveira: Believe me, you can start considering this use case! People will want to do that! And this will give linux another boost!
[03:33] <humbolto> Yes sure, I will certainly use the generic kernel for that!
[03:33] <humbolto> Maybe the low-latency one.
[03:33] <humbolto> But I want the lean interface!
[03:33] <agoliveira> humbolto: That's an idea, of course, and I'm all for it but bear in mind that's not the current focus of the project so we really can't make ay promisses.
[03:34] <humbolto> Really, I beg you, and many others will follow, design ubuntu-mobile to be installed on normal systems with the standard kernel.
[03:34] <humbolto> agoliveira: Just keep it in mind!
[03:35] <agoliveira> humbolto: The hardware we are looking at is very standard, x86 so should be easy to install in similar devices as long as the kernel is suitable.
[03:35] <humbolto> I guess all that is missing is an installer option and an automatic setup and startup of X.
[03:35] <agoliveira> humbolto: Well, be our guest to try and report back ;) This is an open project after all.
[03:36] <humbolto> I took the server CD to get a minimal install and installed ubuntu-mobile thereafter.
[03:36] <humbolto> Now I need to setup automatic startup of X with the UME.
[03:36] <humbolto> agoliveira: that's what I will do.
[03:36] <agoliveira> humbolto: Take a look here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/CreatingAnImageForUMEDevice and here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/ImageCreation
[03:37] <agoliveira> humbolto: There you will have a better idea about how to create an image to your target device.
[03:38] <humbolto> Do I have to create an image? Is it not possible to just install ubuntu-mobile and start it?
[03:38] <humbolto> On whatever kernel is running?
[03:38] <humbolto> Does UME use anoter package manager than dpkg?
[03:39] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: The image-creator really works nicelly from command line. I suppoose the GUI only is broken. I have to talk to Rusty about it.
[03:42] <agoliveira> humbolto: The UME does not have an installer like *buntu flavors. You have to either create an image or you can use a manual procedure to create your target filesystem. Check this out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure
[03:42] <agoliveira> humbolto: Once it's installed and running you can use apt, dpkg or whatever usual package manager you want.
[03:44] <agoliveira> humbolto: I strongly suggest you use the image-creator tough.
[03:45] <humbolto> agoliveira: It is already done. My system is up and running with ubuntu-mobile installed. All that is missing is the automated startup of X and start-hildon.
[03:46] <humbolto> agoliveira: or is the ubuntu-mobile package only providing the build environment?
[03:46] <Mithrandir> humbolto: then you need to supply your own configuration package.
[03:46] <humbolto> agoliveira: I guess not, since the last doc you pasted is pretty much proposing what I already did.
[03:47] <humbolto> Mithrandir: I see.
[03:55] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Did you get the openmoko phone?
[03:56] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: no
[03:59] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: I'm thinking about getting one next time I go to US.
[04:16] <humbolto> I am having one problem starting my ubuntu-mobile environment in vmware. startx starts an xterm inside x. starting start-hildon in it brings up everything as it seems, but does hide the gui somehow.
[04:17] <humbolto> How to disable the xterm start? I could not find a hint where it was started from with grep -R xterm /etc/X11.
[05:59] <goxboxlive> hi
[06:00] <goxboxlive> Is there any prebuild images for download somewhere? I want to test it with HTC Universal and hh.org kernel.
[06:15] <agoliveira> rusty: Hi Rusty. Can I bother you for a few minutes? There's a but when using image creator with gui that's preventing me to generate an image.
[06:15] <agoliveira> s/but/bug
[06:15] <rusty> agoliveira, what'a the bug
[06:16] <agoliveira> rusty, let me run it again to get it fresh
[06:18] <agoliveira> rusty, I'll have to send you the logs but, for starters, it tries to install matchbox-keyboard-toggler but says it can't find it despite the package exists on gutsy.
[06:18] <rusty> agoliveira, I'm about to go offline for a while... i need to catch the light rail down the the conf center where Ubuntu Live is held
[06:19] <rusty> agoliveira, could you fill out a bug report on moblin.org?
[06:19] <agoliveira> Sure.
[08:52] <charliefjohnson> jacob-pc: Are you checking into the FSET add failure I reported ??  None of the FSETs other than "core" adds successfully.
[08:53] <jacob-pc> charliefjohnson: no
[09:06] <agoliveira> charliefjohnson: I can confirm that and I've added a bug at moblin.org as Rusty requested.
[09:10] <charliefjohnson> agoliveira: I guess I should have done that.  Makes it hard to do any pre-alpha testing.
[09:13] <agoliveira> charliefjohnson: Indeed.
[09:27] <charliefjohnson> agoliveira: I could not find a bug in the bugzilla.  Can you give me the bug #?
[09:29] <agoliveira> charliefjohnson: #24
[09:31] <charliefjohnson> agoliveira: OK - Thanks
[09:31] <agoliveira> charliefjohnson: My pleasure
[09:36] <ian_brasil_> i was able to add an ubuntu-mobile fset and it seemed to work ok
[09:40] <charliefjohnson> ian_brasil_:I'll try it.  Thanks.
[09:42] <agoliveira> ian_brasil_: I didn't try every single fset so it might work.
at least the important one works ok hein </joke>
[09:53] <agoliveira> ian_brasil_: ;)
[09:53] <agoliveira> ian_brasil_: BTW, are you eher already?
[09:54] <ian_brasil_> nope...with the accident in Sao Paulo i think arranging air travel in Brazil is a bit difficult...it was like a horror story watching it on tv
[09:55] <agoliveira> ian_brasil_: Yeah, that was awful
[09:55] <agoliveira> ian_brasil_: Thank God I don't have to travel soon
[09:58] <ian_brasil_> i am praying to him for a safe journey
[10:01] <agoliveira> ian_brasil_: Right now is not a matter of be safe but do. After the accident very restrictive safe measures were taken which is good for safety but a complete mess for all the rest. About 1/2 the planned flights right have one problem or another regarding delays ort being diverted to a different airport.
[10:02] <ian_brasil_> sounds like a bagunca ...i hate air travel...i wish i could go by train really
[10:31] <charliefjohnson> Folks - what is included in the "core" fset ?  
[10:33] <Mithrandir> charliefjohnson: ubuntu-minimal and grub; it's quite useless by itself as it lacks a kernel.
[10:36] <charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Oh.  We so far none of the menlow platform fsets will successfully add other than core.  Makes it tough to see if we have something that will do something minimal on a menlow system.
[10:37] <Mithrandir> oh, the menlow core one is different to the mccaslin one
[10:38] <Mithrandir> grub busybox-initramfs linux-image-2.6.22-8-ume linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22-8-ume initramfs-tools is the menlow core one.
[10:38] <Mithrandir> it should probably be changed to linux-ume and not the versioned ones.
[10:40] <suihkulokki> stupid newbie question..
[10:41] <suihkulokki> is there a way to debootstrap UME and run it in a chroot?
[10:41] <Mithrandir> yes
[10:42] <suihkulokki> i did not find instructions browsing from the wikipage in the topic
[10:43] <Mithrandir> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure
[10:43] <Mithrandir> sorry it took a bit to find
[10:45] <suihkulokki> heh
[10:45] <suihkulokki> oh that's simple
[10:46] <Mithrandir> yes, it's not that hard.
[10:48] <GyrosGeier> hi
[10:49] <GyrosGeier> I'm currently hacking on the mother of all toolchain build scripts and wanted to swap notes
[10:50] <Mithrandir> hi GyrosGeier 
[10:50] <Mithrandir> we're not doing crossbuilds, though
[10:50] <GyrosGeier> I'm interested in building the toolchain primarily
[10:51] <GyrosGeier> gcc-4.2 Build-Depends on a fairly recent libc and on gcc-4.1-multilib | gcc-4.2-multilib
[10:52] <GyrosGeier> all of that stuff isn't in Dapper, so I'm thinking of having a native gcc backport to build a cross gcc backport; however the current package cannot be built even as a native compiler on Dapper
[10:54] <Mithrandir> that might well be
[10:54] <Mithrandir> you'd probably want to talk to doko about that, though
[10:54] <Mithrandir> since he knows the toolchain best
[10:55] <GyrosGeier> okay
[10:56] <Mithrandir> sorry to just be bouncing you along. :-/
[10:56] <GyrosGeier> hehe
[10:57] <GyrosGeier> I'm wondering whether it makes sense to coordinate efforts on the cross toolchains between Debian and Ubuntu, given that the toolchain maintainers are essentially the same people
[10:58] <Mithrandir> it sounds sane to me, but I don't have any time to help out
[11:00] <charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Back to the FSET names.  Is there a reason we are keeping some level of consistency between mcaslin and menlow ? Is this really a rusty question?
[11:00] <Mithrandir> charliefjohnson: it's a rusty question; he's the master of the image creator.
[11:00] <charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: He is here at Ubuntu Live, I'll ask him.
[11:01] <Mithrandir> ok.
[11:01] <Mithrandir> how's it there?
[11:01] <GyrosGeier> hmm
[11:02] <GyrosGeier> gcc's rules.defs has a conditional definition for ssp_no_archs for cross compilers, followed by an unconditional one
[11:02] <GyrosGeier> that smells wrong
[11:02] <charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: OK.  The technical content of some of the talks is a bit light.
[11:03] <Mithrandir> GyrosGeier: file a bug. :-)