[12:37] <soren> I have a hunch that it's against policy for a package to alter another package's rc?.d links, but I can't seem to find it in the policy..
[12:40] <broonie> soren: It's the same thing as touching a configuration file, really.
[12:42] <soren> broonie: If that's the case, then it's fine for another package to fiddle with it, as per section 10.7.4 about sharing configuration files.
[12:43] <soren> broonie: And that might be the case. My hunch just told me otherwise.
[12:43] <Burgundavia> hey soren
[12:44] <soren> Burgundavia: Hi, Corey.
[12:45] <ajmitch> hello soren, Burgundavia
[12:45] <soren> ajmitch: Hey, Andrew.
[12:45] <Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
[12:46] <ajmitch> soren: do you know if we have any postgresql load balancing stuff?
[12:48] <soren> ajmitch: sqlrelay, perhaps?
[12:48] <soren> ajmitch: I've never actually used it for load balancing, though.
[12:49] <ajmitch> hm, that could work
[12:50] <ajmitch> it'd only be for 2-3 servers for now anyway, as an experiment :)
[12:53] <soren> ajmitch: Ah, ok. I sed it for connection pooling once. That worked pretty well, afair.
[02:03] <xnix> does anyone know of issues with nvidia/agp drivers in the latest gutsy gibbon kernel 6.22-8-generic +
[02:03] <xnix> ?
[02:44] <doesnothelp> hi
[02:44] <doesnothelp> how do i devlop trojans for ubuntu suse 7.02?
[02:44] <desrt> wrong channel, i'm afraid
[02:44] <desrt> i suggest leaving
[02:44] <RAOF> !ops
[02:44] <ubotu> Help! bhale, infinity, Hobbsee, jdub, thom, fooishbar, fabbione, mdz, lamont, or Keybuk
[02:44] <doesnothelp> you msut know
[02:45] <doesnothelp> see
[02:45] <Nafallo> doesnothelp: there is no such thing
[02:45] <doesnothelp> what you brought upon youself
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     Nek se ovaj vijek gordi nad svijema vjekovima,
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     on e era biti strana ljudskijema koljenima.
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     U nj se osam blizanacah u jedan mah iznjihae
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     iz kolevke Belonine, i na zemlji pokazae:
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     Napoleon, Karlo, Bliher, knez Velington i Suvorov.
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     Karaore, bi tirjanah, i varcenberg i Kutuzov.
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     Arei je, strava zemna, slavom bojnom njih opio
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     i zemlju im za poprite, da se bore, naznaio.
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     Iz grmena velikoga lafu iza trudno nije,
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     u velikim narodima geniju se gnj'jezdo vije:
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     ovde mu je pogotovu materijal k slavnom djelu
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     i trijumfa dini v'jenac, da mu krasi glavu smjelu.
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     Al' heroju topolskome, Karaoru besmrtnome,
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     sve prepone na put bjehu, k cilju dospje velikome:
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     die narod, krsti zemlju, a varvarske lance srui,
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     iz mrtvijeh Srba dozva, dunu ivot srpskoj dui.
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     Evo tajna besmrtnika: dade Srbu stalne grudi;
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     od vitetva odviknuta u njim lafska srca budi.
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     Faraona istonoga pred orem se mrznu sile,
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     orem su se srpske mice sa vitetvom opojile!
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     Od ora se Stambol trese, krvoedni otac kuge,
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     sabljom mu se Turci kunu - kletve u njih nema druge.
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     Da, viteza sustopice tragieski konac prati:
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     tvojoj glavi bi sueno za v'jenac se svoj prodati!
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[02:45] <doesnothelp>     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     Pokoljenja djela sude, to je ije daju svjema!
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     Na Borise, Vukaine, opta grmi anatema,
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     gadno ime Pizonovo ne sm'je kaljat mjesecoslov,
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     za Egista uprav slii grom nebesni, sud Orestov.
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     Nad svijetlim tvojim grobom zloba grdna bljuva tmue,
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     al nebesnu silnu zraku to ' ugasit tvoje due?
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     Plane, grdne pomrine - mogu l' one svjetlost kriti?
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     Svjetlosti se one kriju, one e je raspaliti.
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     Plam e, vjeno ivotvorni, blistat Srbu tvoje zublje,
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     sve e sjajni i udesni u vjekove bivat dublje.
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     Zna Duana rodit Srpka, zna dojiti Obilie,
[02:46] <sid> wtf
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     al heroje ka Poarske, divotnike i plemie,
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     gle, Srpkinje sada rau... Blagorodstvom Srpstvo die...
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     Bjei, grdna kletvo, s roda - zavjet Srbi ispunie!
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     U Beu na Novo ljeto 1847. goda
[02:46] <doesnothelp>     Soinitelj
[02:46] <doesnothelp> Lica
[02:46] <doesnothelp> Vladika Danilo
[02:46] <doesnothelp> Iguman Stefan
[02:46] <doesnothelp> Serdar Janko urakovi
[02:46] <doesnothelp> Serdar Radonja
[02:46] <doesnothelp> Serdar Vukota
[02:46] <doesnothelp> Serdar Ivan Petrovi
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Knez Rade, brat vladike Danila
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Knez Bajko
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Knez Rogan
[02:47] <sid> keybuk lamont mdz fabbione daniels thom jdub Hobbsee infinity bhale Mithrandir Kamion mneptok
[02:47] <hggdh> just ignore the idiot until we get someone to boot it out
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Knez Janko
[02:47] <sid> any ops here?
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Knez Nikola
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Vojvoda Drako
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Vojvoda Milija
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Vojvoda Stanko (Ljub.)
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Vojvoda Batri
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Toma Martinovi
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Obrad
[02:47] <doesnothelp> 
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Vuk Raslapevi
[02:47] <desrt> sid; just walk away
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Vukota Mrvaljevi
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Vuk Tomanovi
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Mnozina
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Bogdan urakovi
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Vuk Miunovi
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Vuk Mandui
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Vuk Ljeevostupac
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Pop Mio
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Sestra Batrieva
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Hadi-Ali Medovi, kadija
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Skender-Aga
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Mustaj-Kadija
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Arslan-Aga Muhadinovi
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Kavazbaa Ferat Zair
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Ridal Osman
[02:47] <doesnothelp> Jedna baba
[02:47] <doesnothelp>     Lica koja pjesnik nije bio unio u spisak:
[02:48] <doesnothelp>     Vuk Markovi, jedan Cuca, jedan vojnik, drugi vojnik,
[02:48] <doesnothelp>     svat Crnogorac, svat Turin, ae, aci.
[02:48] <doesnothelp> Skuptina uoi Trojiina dne na Lovenu
[02:48] <doesnothelp>     Gluho doba noi, svak spava.
[02:48] <doesnothelp> Vladika Danilo (sam sobom)
[02:48] <doesnothelp>     Vii vraga su sedam binjiah,
[02:48] <doesnothelp>     su dva maa a su dvije krune,
[02:48] <doesnothelp>     praunuka Turkova s Koranom!
[02:48] <doesnothelp>     Za njim jata prokletoga kota,
[02:48] <doesnothelp>     da opuste zemlju svukoliku
[02:51] <RAOF> Thank you.
[03:11] <evand> wow
[03:13] <ajmitch> impressive paste spew, wasn't it?
[03:14] <evand> it was surely something
[03:16] <ajmitch> not sure what that something was, but it was something :)
[03:16] <infinity> Aww, I missed all the excitement.
[03:16] <infinity> Jetlag's still killing me, that would be why. :/
[03:17] <StevenK> infinity: Back in sunny downtown Melbourne?
[03:17] <infinity> Yeah, finally.
[03:17] <StevenK> Heh
[04:34] <sbalneav> I'll ask again, just in case any new eyes see this...  I'm trying to squash Bug #107518.  Does anyone know any nice, simple way top detect if a given file system is dirty?
[04:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 107518 in ltspfs "auto filesystem mounting can cause hideous data loss" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107518
[07:31] <calc> grr tribe-3 cd still has problem connecting to my AP at home :\
[07:32] <calc> feisty works fine at home
[08:29] <LucidFox> Any archive admins in here?
[08:31] <Hobbsee> LucidFox: probably not at this time of day
[08:31] <Hobbsee> wait a few hours
[08:31] <LucidFox> ah
[08:31] <LucidFox> damn timezones...
[08:32] <LucidFox> most people here probably don't live in UTC+7
[08:32] <Hobbsee> no.  nor +11
[08:36] <cjwatson> LucidFox: if it's the component move you were asking about last night: file a bug on the package and subscribe (NOT assign) the ubuntu-archive team to it, and it'll go onto the archive admin queue
[08:40] <pitti> Good morning
[08:41] <StevenK> Morning pitti
[08:45] <\sh> guys, what do you need to check on bug 127125 ? if it's possible I'll try to get everything you need
[08:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127125 in linux-source-2.6.20 "2.6.20 in feisty can't mount EIT/GPT Partition Tables with more then 2TB size" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127125
[08:49] <LucidFox> cjwatson> Ah, all right. I already did that.
[08:57] <mdke> does anyone know who else is involved in this new training team that was announced besides Billy?
[09:33] <mdke> hi Burgundavia
[09:33] <Burgundavia> hey md
[09:33] <mdke> :)
[09:33] <Burgundavia> mdke, rather
[09:33] <Hobbsee> greetings Burgundavia, from the land of the green aliens
[09:33] <Burgundavia> green aliens?
[09:34] <mdke> I wish my greeting had been that innovative
[09:34] <Burgundavia> does that mean you have a green card?
[09:34] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: wrong country
[09:34] <Hobbsee> mdke: i actually said "greetings from the queen of the aardvarks", to start a phonecall yesterday - the receiver actually recognised who it was!
[09:35] <mdke> I would have put the phone down
[09:35] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:35] <Hobbsee> not sure if they have number recognition, on that phone, or just recognised my voice
[09:36] <mdke> or the greeting
[09:38] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: the aardvarks themselves, of course.
[09:38] <Hobbsee> mdn
[09:38] <mdke> haha
[09:39] <Hobbsee> mdke: no, i've never used such a greeting to her before
[09:39] <elkbuntu> talking aardvarks. now i've heard it all
[09:39] <Hobbsee> mutation.  evolution.
[09:40] <cjwatson> so is there a good reason why we bother to SIGTERM the avahi daemon on shutdown?
[09:41] <Hobbsee> morning cjwatson
[09:41] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, oh, you mean like weasleboy?
[09:41] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: exactly.
[09:41] <cjwatson> morning
[09:41] <Hobbsee> poor Burgundavia will probably be psycologically damaged from you calling him that, elkbuntu
[09:42] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, i can just blame it on his brother
[09:42] <Burgundavia> wait a sec
[09:42] <elkbuntu> he's the rat
[09:42] <Burgundavia> I will bring you up before teh CC for that!!! ;P
[09:43] <elkbuntu> is that the best retort you have?
[09:43] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: you will have to abstain, though
[09:48] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: could we make build-mobile not fall over if it fails to fetch an image?  Not all of them build yet.
[09:48] <Hobbsee> morning Mithrandir
[09:48] <Mithrandir> hiya Hobbsee
[09:52] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: does that mean i should stomp on your fingers instead, then?
[09:53] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: lala, I can't hear you, 'cause I've run away.
[09:54] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: i can yell.
[09:54] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: you underestimate how loudly i can yell :P
[09:58] <seb128> Does anybody has an objection to add xserver-xephyr to "supported"?
[09:58] <seb128> gdmflexiserver can use it and it's better than xnest
[10:01] <soren> Can anyone see why libgnutls gets pulled in here? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8170757/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.postfix_2.4.3-1ubuntu1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
[10:05] <soren> Ah, it's Priority: important
[10:05] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: don't add them to the list if they don't build, then? ;)
[10:05] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: heh, I could do that.
[10:05] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: but I suppose I can fix that
[10:06] <soren> Why would libgnutls13 be Priority: important
[10:06] <soren> ?
[10:06] <Mithrandir> soren: no, that's not why it's pulled in.
[10:06] <soren> Mithrandir: No?
[10:06] <Mithrandir> soren: it's pulled in by libldap2 which is pulled in by libldap2-dev
[10:06] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: would you like me to commit the changes on lithium?
[10:06] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: yes, please.
[10:07] <Mithrandir> soren: the chroots on the buildds are Priority: required and {Build-,}Essential: yes, not Priority: important.
[10:07] <soren> Mithrandir: You're right. I got confused because it was already installed in my sbuild.
[10:07] <cjwatson> soren: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/gutsy/minimal
[10:07] <cjwatson> libgnutls13 <- libcurl3-gnutls <- gnupg <- minimal seed
[10:07] <Mithrandir> soren: but why do you care about libgnutls?  It's just the library package, not the -dev package.
[10:07] <cjwatson> (one route, there are probably others)
[10:08] <soren> Mithrandir: Just looking at bug 81242
[10:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 81242 in postfix "postfix-ldap is linked against gnuTLS" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81242
[10:09] <soren> Mithrandir: And then I got curious.
[10:09] <soren> cjwatson: Right. Thanks.
[10:09] <cjwatson> (hopefully this is stating the obvious, but you need explicit --without-gnutls or whatever rather than relying on the library not being installed at build time)
[10:10] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: the -dev package doesn't seem to be installed, though?
[10:10] <cjwatson> I know
[10:10] <soren> cjwatson: Sure. I just couldn't spot why it would get installed anyway.
[10:10] <cjwatson> soren: postfix Build-Depends: libldap2-dev Depends: libldap2 Depends: libgnutls13
[10:10] <soren> cjwatson: Got it.
[10:11] <cjwatson> oh, Mithrandir said that above, whoops :)
[10:11] <soren> cjwatson: The confusion arose when I ran the apt-get command line from the build log in my own schroot and it didn't pull in libgnutls13.
[10:11] <cjwatson> right
[10:13] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: done
[10:13] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: thanks
[10:14] <ivoks> should libldap get build against openssl then?
[10:15] <pitti> ivoks: that would break the world license-wise, I think
[10:16] <ivoks> well, libldap is under same license as openldap
[10:16] <ivoks> which is already build against openssl
[10:16] <pitti> ivoks: right
[10:16] <pitti> ivoks: but that would mean GPL software couldn't link against our libldap any more
[10:16] <ivoks> right...
[10:16] <pitti> $ apt-cache rdepends libldap2|wc -l
[10:16] <pitti> 147
[10:16] <ivoks> then libldap2-nongpl?
[10:16] <pitti> I'm pretty sure that there are some GPL programs amongst these
[10:16] <ivoks> for postfix and alike...
[10:17] <pitti> soren: what was the actual problem of libldap linking against gnutls?
[10:17] <ivoks> postfix-ldap is build against libldap
[10:17] <cjwatson> I'm not happy either with stuff moving libgnutls -> libssl without a very good reason
[10:18] <ivoks> that makes ldap->postfix tricky
[10:18] <Hobbsee> morning pitti :)
[10:18] <pitti> hey Hobbsee
[10:18] <soren> pitti: Yeah, what ivoks said. :)
[10:18] <ivoks> pitti: http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/postfix/2007-01/1351.html
[10:19] <ivoks> that's our package :)
[10:19] <seb128> pitti: any objection to have xserver-xephyr listed to supported?
[10:20] <pitti> seb128: if you give this some testing, sure
[10:20] <pitti> seb128: will gdmflexiserver automatically use it?
[10:21] <pitti> seb128: gdmflexiserver -n -l doesn't work, and I don't see an explicit xephyr option?
[10:21] <seb128> pitti: yes, vuntz nagged me at GUADEC because it's much better than xnest (real grab pointer and keyboard, doesn't crash on workspace switching, etc)
[10:21] <seb128> pitti: I just merged gdm with debian and there is a gdmXnestWrapper now
[10:22] <pitti> ah, cool
[10:22] <seb128> pitti: the wrapper use xephyr if available otherwise xnest
[10:23] <pitti> whoops, xephyr just crashed
[10:23] <mvo> calc: I looked at your xinerama issue, it maybe that a new compiz snapshot solves the problem
[10:23] <pitti> I just started xeyes in it...
[10:23] <StevenK> pitti: Feel like cleaning up the NBS list by purging a bunch of stuff? :-)
[10:24] <pitti> StevenK: sure!
[10:25] <StevenK> pitti: asterisk-app-dtmftotext, libapache-mod-xslt, libgmpxx4, libode0c2 and libspandsp1 can all go.
[10:26] <pitti> StevenK: I just remove all of the empty files
[10:28] <pitti> StevenK: I'll also remove the NBS -dev packages, to avoid more packages using them
[10:28] <StevenK> pitti: Hrm. Don't do that. xen-hypervisor is still listed.
[10:28] <pitti> StevenK: that's fine, it's really NBS
[10:28] <StevenK> Yeah, but is the new Xen in yet?
[10:28] <pitti> no, the packages still have a lot of problems, I mailed zul already
[10:29] <StevenK> And I'm not sure what to do about lib32gcj8-*
[10:29] <StevenK> pitti: Speaking of -dev packages, libdb3-dev is NBS'd, and I'm unsure where to go with that.
[10:30] <pitti> StevenK: I think the reason is to stop packages from using libdb3
[10:30] <pitti> lib32gcj-bc is the only rdepends of lib32gcj8-0
[10:31] <StevenK> Sure, but should I look at moving r-build-depends of libdb3-dev to libdb4.x?
[10:31] <pitti> ah, but lib32gcj-bc is built from gcc-defaults
[10:31] <pitti> StevenK: that's generally possible if the package does not use on-disk transactions
[10:31] <StevenK> Yeah, I looked at it earlier and went cross-eyed
[10:31] <pitti> StevenK: "grep -r TXN" is a good indication
[10:31] <StevenK> In the source?
[10:31] <TheMuso> StevenK: Sid has done a lot of packages to libdb4.5, and we haven't.
[10:32] <pitti> the on-disk transaction format changed in every release, so those pacakges need extra love
[10:32] <pitti> TheMuso: how did they do the conversion for stuff that does use transactions, like cyrus-sasl?
[10:32] <TheMuso> pitti: I don'tknow.
[10:33] <cjwatson> don't you need to run db4.X_upgrade or whatever it is?
[10:33] <cjwatson> (for stuff that uses transactions)
[10:33] <pitti> oh, there is an upgrade tool now? shiny
[10:35] <seb128> StevenK: sparc GTK builds are borked due to glib at the moment
[10:36] <StevenK> I suspect ia64 is suffering from the same fate.
[10:36] <pitti> WARNING: package xserver-xephyr-dbgsym not available
[10:36] <pitti> seb128: ^ no retrace love for my xephyr crash :(
[10:37] <cjwatson> pitti: always has ben
[10:37] <cjwatson> been
[10:37] <seb128> StevenK: not likely
[10:37] <cjwatson> I've never been involved with a package that uses on-disk transactions though, so I'm not certain
[10:37] <StevenK> seb128: glade-3 failed to build on both sparc and ia64 with exactly the same spew from apt.
[10:38] <StevenK> I'm blaming bonobo, but I haven't checked.
[10:38] <seb128> StevenK: I doubt it's due to bonobo
[10:39] <StevenK> Like I said, I haven't checked. :-)
[10:49] <pygi> good morning everyone :)
[10:50] <seb128> hi pygi
[10:53] <seb128> I got some upload mails with "Thank you for your contribution to INVALID." some days ago for packages I've not uploaded, I'm wondering why
[10:54] <kagou> Hi tkamppeter_
[10:57] <mvo> seb128: I had that too some days ago
[10:57] <StevenK> pitti: It looks like most of this libdb3-dev stuff can be handled by syncs. I'm up to ten. Do I need to file them all manually?
[10:57] <seb128> mvo: dunno who did what to create those? ;)
[10:58] <mvo> seb128: no, I suspect somthing in LP going no, but I do not know
[10:59] <seb128> k
[11:02] <pitti> StevenK: it's enough to give me a list
[11:02] <pitti> StevenK: if there are ubuntu modifications, I'd like to have a bug, though, for a permanent record of why to drop them
[11:03] <pitti> StevenK: requestsync makes it easy enough after all :)
[11:03] <StevenK> pitti: I've checked, none of them do.
[11:03] <StevenK> pitti: 12 sync and 1 removal.
[11:03] <pitti> cool
[11:04] <StevenK> pitti: Let me prepare the list and I'll dump it in here
[11:04] <pitti> StevenK: thanks
[11:04] <kagou> tkamppeter_, i'v asked for upgrading/sync python-cups Bug #128201 . Thanks for s-c-p 0.7.70
[11:05] <StevenK> pitti: Sync: apt-rpm dhelp gabber gconf gnome-libs gnucash gtoaster hotkeys libtabe xcin xemacs21 xfmail ; Remove cyrus21-imapd (Debian bug #432576)
[11:05] <ubotu> Debian bug 432576 in ftp.debian.org "RM: cyrus21-imapd -- RoM; outdated; has newer branches in the archive" [Normal,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/432576
[11:06] <StevenK> pitti: Actually, sorry, gnucash and xcin have Ubuntu changes
[11:11] <pitti> StevenK: synced (except gnucash and xcin)
[11:11] <StevenK> pitti: Great, thanks!
[11:13] <seb128> pitti: are you doing syncs?
[11:13] <pitti> StevenK: there is one reverse dependency left from cyrus21: meta-ul-mail-server
[11:13] <seb128> k, looks like
[11:13] <pitti> StevenK: but *shrug*
[11:13] <seb128> that's why processing backports doesn't work :p
[11:13] <pitti> seb128: I'm done now, all your's
[11:13] <seb128> pitti: k, I was just wondering why it refused to do the backports, thanks ;)
[11:14] <pitti> seb128: btw, last time I cleared NEW for dapper-/feisty-backports, but I didn't manage to clean edgy-backports completely
[11:14] <cjwatson> backports shouldn't block on syncs ...
[11:14] <pitti> seb128: maybe some of the stuff shuold just be rejected if it's too intrusive
[11:14] <cjwatson> unless there's some strange LP lock somewhere
[11:14] <pitti> cjwatson: process-upload.py lock, I figure
[11:14] <seb128> cjwatson: the flushing does
[11:14] <StevenK> UserLinux. Right then.
[11:14] <cjwatson> ah
[11:14] <StevenK> pitti: I'll deal with meta-ul-mail-server, too
[11:14] <cjwatson> fair enough
[11:15] <pitti> StevenK: I guess it can be just synced, or something
[11:15] <pitti> meta-ul-mail-server | 0.02-1ubuntu13 | gutsy/universe | all
[11:15] <pitti> StevenK: erk, 13 ubuntu uploads? whoa
[11:16] <StevenK> pitti: It's also been killed from Debian
[11:16] <pitti> indeed
[11:16] <StevenK> Kill them both?
[11:16] <pitti> StevenK: looks like it has never actually been in there?
[11:16] <saispo> hi all
[11:16] <StevenK> Ah
[11:16] <saispo> packages.ubuntu.com is down ?
[11:16] <pitti> http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/meta-ul-mail-server.html doesn't even exist
[11:16] <pitti> which means it's not even in oldstable
[11:17] <StevenK> That'd explain the lack of bug against ftp.debian.org :-P
[11:17] <LucidFox> saispro> yes, it is
[11:17] <LucidFox> *saispo
[11:17] <pitti> Source: meta-ul
[11:17] <StevenK> pitti: mako is the maintainer, maybe we need to ask him nicely
[11:17] <pitti> StevenK: ^ my bad, sorry
[11:19] <pitti> StevenK: so none of the old names exist either
[11:19] <StevenK> Which means we should kill it?
[11:20] <soren> Question: Does the usual interpretation of the Debian Policy allow for a package to alter another package's rc?.d links?
[11:20] <pitti> geser: you did the last three uploads of meta-ul; are you actually interested in that package and want to fix it for the cyrus21-imapd removal, or shall I just kill it?
[11:21] <pitti> soren: erk; I'd interpret the DP as "don't do that"
[11:21] <geser> pitti: no, please kill it
[11:21] <StevenK> Hurray!
[11:21] <geser> pitti: I've only fixed unmet deps in the past
[11:21] <pitti> soren: once you start doing that, and multiple packages change your rc links, then you'll get mad
[11:21] <soren> pitti: 10.7.4 speaks of shared configuration files, which this could be interpreted as.
[11:21] <pitti> geser: thanks
[11:22] <pitti> soren: right, but that applies to stuff like /etc/modules or /etc/passwd IMHO, which are not clearly tied to a particular package
[11:22] <soren> pitti: But my hunch says that it's evil.
[11:22] <soren> pitti: Right, ok.
[11:23] <pitti> soren: what's the use caes?
[11:23] <pitti> case, even
[11:24] <pitti> StevenK: *flush*
[11:24] <soren> pitti: I'm trying to figure out if there's some policy-abiding way I can make ebox run an ldap server. Right now, it mangles /etc/ldap/slapd.conf and uses the system one, but I'd rather have it create a separate slapd.conf, run a separate instance of slapd and make the "real" slapd not run.
[11:25] <pitti> soren: but in this case it should also listen to a nonstandard port etc., so it shouldn't actually interfere with the main ldap server?
[11:26] <soren> pitti: No, it's supposed to listen on the standard ldap port.
[11:26] <pitti> soren: it would seem quite weird to me if the box which runs ebox couldn't work as an ldap server?
[11:26] <pitti> soren: let's take a step back
[11:26] <pitti> soren: is that ldap server supposed to be a private database for ebox internals, or an official ldap server for net auth etc. which is configured by ebox?
[11:26] <soren> pitti: The latter.
[11:27] <pitti> ah
[11:27] <asisak> lionel: concerning bug 119796 you acked the sync. Does this mean you checked there is no necessary Ubuntu diff?
[11:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 119796 in openbox "please sync openbox 3.4.2-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119796
[11:27] <LucidFox> pitti, can you please look at bug #128145?
[11:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 128145 in videotrans "Please move to multiverse" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128145
[11:27] <pitti> soren: hm, so why don't you want to start it at boot then?
[11:27] <soren> pitti: I do.
[11:28] <pitti> LucidFox: seb128 did it two minutes ago :)
[11:28] <seb128> ;)
[11:28] <soren> pitti: I just don't want to break the existing ldap config.
[11:28] <seb128> LucidFox: usually no need to ping archive admin, we do look at the bug list often enough
[11:29] <pitti> soren: do you need to?
[11:29] <soren> pitti: And the cleanest way to do this, I think, is to create an entirely separate configuration, with an entirely separate ldap database and use that instead of the "real" one.
[11:29] <pitti> soren: i. e. can't the ldap module read the existing config and mangle it according to the settings you do in ebox?
[11:29] <soren> pitti: Well, ebox can start it from its init script (which it probably will), but I need the "real" one to not start.
[11:29] <soren> pitti: in theory, yes. I'm just not very comfortable doing that.
[11:30] <pitti> soren: TBH, I think we should find a way to configure the real system packages properly; having private instances of everything will be an insane maintenance overhead IMHO
[11:30] <pitti> soren: as long as ebox doesn't change configuration automatically, only on user's requests, I do not see a conflict with the DP spirit
[11:31] <pitti> i. e.
[11:31] <pitti> good: read ldap.conf, present it on GUI, have user change settings, write it back, force-reload
[11:31] <pitti> bad: ignore ldap.conf, create ldap.conf from scratch according to settings in ebox
[11:31] <pitti> soren: the current xserver-xorg postinst is a great way how *not* to do it :)
[11:32] <pitti> it's the prime example of violating the debconf policy (and configuration file clobbering)
[11:33] <soren> pitti: I'm aware of the maintenance overhead, but doing what you propose requires deep and thorough knowledge of *every* aspect of *every* config file we want to handle.
[11:33] <pitti> soren: well, you need knowledge about the syntax, the default settings, and the values that you want to change
[11:33] <soren> pitti: The beauty of having a separate config is: 1Installing ebox is safe and undoable.
[11:33] <soren> whoops
[11:34] <pitti> soren: I think it's reasonable for ebox to say "I cannot configure this" if there is a non-default configuration file
[11:34] <soren> pitti: The beauty of having a separate config is: 1) Installing ebox is safe and undoable, 2) we control the entire new config, so we're sure it works like it's supposed to.
[11:34] <soren> pitti: And how do you propose detecing "default configurations"?
[11:34] <soren> detecting..
[11:34] <pitti> soren: but still, it makes ebox and configuration file management incompatible
[11:35] <pitti> soren: check if a conffile is unmodified, and keep md5sums of the last version ebox wrote maybe?
[11:35] <pitti> (conffile unmodified -> if ebox doesn't have its own checksum yet)
[11:35] <soren> pitti: right. By having a totally separate config, you can choose to go the dpkg way or the ebox way and switch between them safely.
[11:36] <soren> pitti: I'm not talking about letting the user change configs that ebox has written. I'm talking about installation time.
[11:36] <pitti> soren: IMHO it would be very sad to make the standard conffiles unusable; admins are used to them, they might be covered in backup software, you break upstream documentation, etc.
[11:36] <soren> pitti: I've got other plans for changing configurations while ebox is already installed.
[11:37] <pitti> soren: seems you arrived at one of the core design decisions here; maybe that warrants an u-devel@ thread
[11:37] <soren> pitti: They are free to change the templates used to generate the configuration files.
[11:37] <pygi> siretart, poke?
[11:38] <pitti> soren: if you want to go the 'separate config' approach, I'd prefer changing the affected packages themselves to point to a different configuraion file/dir in their default file
[11:39] <doko> seb128: glib sparc fix ping
[11:39] <seb128> doko: not done yet, will have a look this week, is there any hurry?
[11:39] <seb128> I'm trying to catch up after distro sprint and GUADEC and I've quite a lot to do
[11:40] <doko> seb128: packages fail to build, including gcj
[11:40] <seb128> that I know
[11:40] <soren> pitti: Why? To make it easier for admins to figure out what's going on?
[11:40] <seb128> but is that blocking you for something you need?
[11:41] <pitti> soren: rather to keep configuration file locations and the knowledge about them to the packages themselves
[11:41] <pitti> soren: that way, their init scripts etc. can be modified to use the correct configuration file, and you do not need nasty rc hacks and duplicate init scripts
[11:41] <doko> well, I have to build things locally for the icedtea bootstrap
[11:43] <soren> pitti: I still need to remove their rc?.d links.
[11:43] <pitti> soren: why that?
[11:44] <soren> pitti: Well.. Not *need*, but it makes other things an order of magnitude simpler.
[11:44] <soren> pitti: Because, alternatively, ebox will have to stop the service (and dependent services), rewrite the configuration (to make sure it is the way we expect it to be) and start the service (and rdependents) again.
[11:45] <pitti> soren: hm, I'm not sure whether this is true; you'll end up duplicating all the effort and knowledge that went to the packaging, init scripts, etc., not even mentioning the tools for system checks
[11:45] <seb128> doko: I'll look at glib after lunch
[11:45] <pitti> soren: if you change a configuration, then you'll need to force-reload the service anyway
[11:45] <soren> pitti: huh? Just because I'm removing the rc.?.d lins?
[11:45] <soren> pitti: Precisely. That's why it's easier if the service isn't started already, but will be started by ebox.
[11:45] <pitti> soren: no, if you change the server configuration
[11:46] <pitti> soren: I still don't understand that
[11:46] <pitti> soren: surely ebox doesn't modify configuration files on startup?
[11:46] <soren> pitti: How else will it know that the configuration is the way it's supposed to be?
[11:46] <pitti> soren: you scare me
[11:47] <pitti> soren: it actually rewrites configuration every time it starts up?
[11:47] <soren> pitti: Yes.
[11:47] <soren> pitti: If you stop ebox, break the configuration and start ebox again, and ebox didn't do anything to fix it, how would that be handled if you were to decide?
[11:48] <pitti> soren: it shouldn't be handled at all
[11:48] <pitti> soren: if the admin changed a configuration file manually, nothing should clobber that
[11:48] <pitti> (our "Golden Rule")
[11:48] <soren> pitti: So just break spectacularly? That sounds cleveR?
[11:48] <pitti> soren: yes
[11:48] <pitti> soren: ignoring admin's explicit decisions is really bad
[11:49] <soren> pitti: The configuration files *clearly* state "DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE! EDIT THE TEMPLATE INSTEAD!"
[11:49] <pitti> soren: but that doesn't make it much better IMHO
[11:50] <pitti> soren: if someone restores their machine from a backup, he should get the configuration files he wants, not the ones ebox scribbles over them
[11:50] <pitti> soren: IMHO *not* respecting the current configuration files is opening a can of worms
[11:50] <soren> pitti: I respect it by not overwriting it.
[11:50] <soren> pitti: but *you* want me to overwrite it.
[11:50] <pitti> which brought SuSE a lot of bashing in the past (and Debian a lot of trust because it didn't do it)
[11:51] <soren> pitti: You are the one proposing messing with the user's existing files.
[11:51] <pitti> soren: right
[11:51] <pitti> soren: I don't want ebox to override the configuration files every time, without question
[11:51] <soren> pitti: I want to leave them alone, so it's easy to ditch ebox again and not have anything broken by it.
[11:52] <geser> this sounds like yast in the old days where it didn't honour manual editing of config files
[11:52] <pitti> indeed
[11:52] <StevenK> YaST. *twitch*
[11:52] <pitti> so, there are some cases here:
[11:52] <pitti> 1) conffile comes as shipped in the .deb (unmodified conffile) -> we should make sure that ebox understands those
[11:53] <pitti> 2) conffile was manually changed in a way that ebox understands -> I see no problem of changing it again with ebox; if the admin does configuration changes in the ebox UI, he makes an educated decision of configuring his server
[11:53] <soren> pitti: Doesn't work for slapd. It's altered by debconf magic. Which sort of brings me to my second question, but let's leave that for a bit.
[11:53] <pitti> 3) conffile was manually changed in a way that ebox doesn't understand -> don't touch it and explain
[11:54] <tkamppeter> kagou, I have now made another package of s-c-p 0.7.70 and also an update of hal-cups-utils to 0.6.11, because of bug 127841, but it seems that HAL does not trigger the script when plugginh a printer. Any idea?
[11:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127841 in hal-cups-utils "hal-cups-utils does not auto-setup printers on Ubuntu Gutsy" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127841
[11:54] <pitti> I don't think that 3) is an use case we need to worry about much
[11:54] <pitti> people who do that won't need ebox, and if they want it, they can clean up themselves
[11:54] <tkamppeter> kagou, and thanks for reporting bug 128201.
[11:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 128201 in python-cups "Please update/sync to 1.9.24" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128201
[11:54] <soren> pitti: You are answering an entirely different question than I asked.
[11:55] <soren> pitti: I intended to fix that anyway in a way similar to what you propose. The difficulty is what to do at *install* time.
[11:55] <pitti> soren: slapd> if it doesn't fall under 2) ATM, then we can still change the slapd package accordingly (or improve the ebox module)
[11:55] <pitti> soren: hm, so what is your question about install time?
[11:56] <soren> pitti: Well, one of them was: How do I detect that this is a default install?
[11:56] <soren> pitti: /win 17
[11:56] <soren> whoops
[11:57] <pitti> soren: for conffiles this is easy; you can md5sum the file and compare it to dpkg-query -W -f='${Conffiles}' $PKGNAME
[11:57] <pitti> soren: for config files this needs to be decided on a case-by-case basis
[11:58] <pitti> soren: often, config files (not conffiles) are written by debconf scripts
[11:58] <pitti> in which case they are usually trivial enough to parse and change
[11:58] <soren> pitti: Does that dpkg-query thing take into account changes made during postinst (debconf stuff)?
[11:59] <pitti> soren: no, that is independent
[11:59] <pitti> soren: packages must not change conffiles with debconf
[11:59] <soren> pitti: No, but I'm dealing with config files.
[11:59] <cjwatson> s/ with debconf//
[11:59] <cjwatson> well, s/ with debconf/ in maintainer scripts/
[12:00] <pitti> the common practice is to have easy config files written by debconf (such as default files) and conffiles which shouldn't usually be touched at all
[12:00] <cjwatson> soren: with configuration files, dpkg-query -W -f='${Conffiles}' won't return anything ...
[12:00] <pitti> soren: if you encounter a package which has variable bits in hard-to-parse configuration files, we should fix that package; it'll avoid much trouble and also make admins happier even without ebox
[12:01] <soren> cjwatson: Sure.
[12:01] <pitti> soren: conffiles are part of the shipped files in a .deb, configuration files are created on the fly in maintainer scripts
[12:01] <soren> pitti: I know.
[12:01] <pitti> ok
[12:02] <soren> I'll send a mail to u-devel, shall I?
[12:03] <pitti> soren: sounds good, for more participation
[12:03] <soren> Right.
[12:07] <Mithrandir> asac: what's holding the mobile-internet-browser back?
[12:08] <pitti> Mithrandir: what do you mean?
[12:09] <pitti> midbrowser | 0.0.070720-0ubuntu1 | gutsy/universe | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
[12:09] <pitti> isn't it that one?
[12:09] <Martian67> In #ubuntu-devel someone just asked "what's holding the mobile-internet-browser back?" and I *so* wanted to answer: "no wheels"
[12:09] <Martian67> thank you for your time
[12:10] <asac> Mithrandir: took some time to do a thorough new review (given the size of that source tarball its reasonable imo) ... should be in now
[12:12] <lionel> can an archive admin give back mysql-query-browser on sparc, powerpc, ia64, i386. it would solve #125203
[12:13] <pitti> lionel: done
[12:13] <lionel> thanks asisak for taking care of openbox :)
[12:13] <lionel> pitti: thanks!
[12:13] <Mithrandir> asac: you haven't uploaded it
[12:14] <asac> Mithrandir: what do you mean?
[12:14] <asisak> lionel: your welcome *cool*
[12:14] <asisak> I mean openbox is cool :)
[12:14] <Mithrandir> asac: I am unable to find a mobile-internet-browser package.
[12:14] <asac> Mithrandir: midbrowser
[12:15] <Mithrandir> asac: ah, ok.  It would be helpful if you had told you about renames like that. :-P
[12:15] <cjwatson> lionel: s/archive admin/buildd admin/
[12:16] <asac> Mithrandir: didn't know about a given name in the first place ... and i pinged you right after the upload
[12:16] <lionel> cjwatson: you're right :)
[12:16] <Mithrandir> asac: I don't have any pings from you in the last 24 hours, and it was uploaded 17 hours ago
[12:17] <asac> Mithrandir: i uploaded last week ... it took a few days for NEW review
[12:17] <asac> Mithrandir: iirc, i uploaded friday
[12:18] <Mithrandir> asac: ok, anyway, it's there now
[12:22] <siretart> pygi: pong
[12:22] <pygi> siretart, hey
[12:22] <pygi> siretart, any progress?
[12:23] <siretart> pygi: I didn't manage to find the time to go through the sourcecode yet
[12:23] <siretart> :(
[12:24] <pygi> siretart, k
[12:24] <geser> pitti: I've seen that Debian tries to get away from libdb3 (universe). Should we try it also and sync those packages? or should it wait for gutsy+1?
[12:25] <pitti> geser: doing it now is fine; in fact, StevenK already looked at it and I synced a lot already
[12:29] <StevenK> geser: Beat you. I've dealt with/am dealing with them all already
[12:29] <geser> good
[04:26] (Riddell/#ubuntu-devel) there is no package where the debian/copyright lists the authors of admin/ files
[04:26] (Tonio_/#ubuntu-devel) seb128: no pb, I'll do a fixed copyright file toonight then
[04:26] (pitti/#ubuntu-devel) Tonio_: it's not a reason to OMGrepackageeverything, but I agree that new packages shuold do it correctly
[04:26] (seb128/#ubuntu-devel) Riddell: any reason why those copyright holders should not be listed?
[04:27] (Tonio_/#ubuntu-devel) pitti: sure ;)
[04:27] (mvo_/#ubuntu-devel) there is one ... libcompizconfig-backend-kconfig, because I was forced to add it to get it out of NEW :P
[04:27] (seb128/#ubuntu-devel) Tonio_: ok, thanks
[04:27] (pitti/#ubuntu-devel) Tonio_: great, thank you for understanding
[04:27] (pitti/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: MUAHAHAHA!
[04:27] (pitti/#ubuntu-devel) erm
[04:27] (seb128/#ubuntu-devel) Tonio_: I'm rejecting the current kdesudo then
[04:27] (pitti/#ubuntu-devel) mvo_: rightly so! :)
[04:28] <mvo_> ...
[04:28] <Tonio_> pitti: bah, it is an axiom, no reason to reject it, it *has* to be done ;) just that I think Riddell, I and any other guy just did like any other kde packager and reproduced the error
[04:28] <lool> seb128: I'm pushing glib2.0 2.13.7-2 with the shlibs bumped to experimental right now
[04:28] <jwendell> jamesh, is gnome-vfs-obex accepting usb connections?
[04:29] <Riddell> seb128: debian/copyright will rarely reflect every minor contributor
[04:29] <mvo_> don't forget to add a COPYING.LGPL to the tarball too because some stuff in admin is LGPL
[04:32] (Riddell/#ubuntu-devel) I'm unsure we gain anything from having stricter New processing than Debian
[04:32] (Hobbsee/#ubuntu-devel) Riddell: debian accepts the control.in files, though
[04:33] <Riddell> Hobbsee: they're not entirely daft for the uploaders line, it's the build-deps where they get dangerous
[04:33] <StevenK> Or package names
[04:33] <Hobbsee> Riddell: this is true.  still more complex than it should be, and means that the make buildprep stuff doesnt work
[04:33] <Riddell> StevenK: hmm?
[04:34] <StevenK> Riddell: I can recall one instance of debian/control.in being used to automatically generate a debian/control to put the version number from debian/changelog into a package name.
[04:35] <Riddell> now that's nuts :)
[04:35] <StevenK> Right. :-)
[04:36] <Riddell> seb128: do you check for new copyright holders with each new upstream version of anything you package?
[04:36] <seb128> Riddell: no, I usually have a quick look on the diff but that's about it
[04:37] <seb128> Riddell: I'm pretty sure most of packagers don't update the copyright holders
[04:37] <seb128> why?
[04:38] <Riddell> seb128: I disagree with requiring debian/copyright to have every minor copyright holder given that it'll get out of date as soon as there's a new upstream release where someone else has contributed a few lines
[04:39] <seb128> Riddell: well, I've no strong opinion about it, I just don't want to screw
[04:39] <seb128> Riddell: if we say that admin directory from KDE packages doesn't need to be listed in debian/copyright that's fine with me
[04:39] <seb128> having a policy about those would be nice though
[04:41] <Riddell> well you know my opinion :)
[04:42] <Riddell> pitti, Mithrandir, cjwatson, elmo: got an opionion on whether debian/copyright needs minor authors such as those in KDE's admin/ directories?
[04:42] <elmo> what's in the admin/ directory?
[04:42] <seb128> admin/conf.change.pl is under LGPL also, dunno if it should be listed in debian/copyright
[04:42] <seb128> elmo: a bunch of build scripts
[04:43] <seb128> elmo: you can use kdesudo in the NEW queue as an example if you want to have a look
[04:43] <elmo> seb128: I have no idea how to even look at NEW packages in soyuz and no desire to learn ;-)
[04:43] <seb128> ;)
[04:43] <elmo> basically, I'm not sure where the 'must have all authors in debian/copyright' meme came from
[04:44] <azeem> germany
[04:44] <elmo> personally, I don't think it's useful or pragmatically enforcable
[04:44] <pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/gutsy/new/kdesudo_1.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
[04:44] <pitti> (FYI)
[04:44] <seb128> k
[04:44] <seb128> so let's not bother
[04:44] <seb128> and admin/conf.change.pl being LGPL, should the copyright mention it? (rest of the package is under GPL)
[04:45] <elmo> LGPL can be promoted to GPL, so again, I think that's moot
[04:45] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[04:45] <pitti> you mean 'promoted' == you can treat an LGPL source as if it were licensed under GPL
[04:45] <pitti> ?
[04:46] <seb128> Riddell, Tonio_: kdesudo accepted, enjoy ;)
[04:46] <Riddell> yay, thanks seb128
[04:46] <Tonio_> seb128: oki :)
[04:46] <seb128> you're welcome
[04:46] <Hobbsee> yay!
[04:46] <Riddell> pitti: main inclusion report pending for kdesudo now :)
[04:46] <elmo> pitti: yes
[04:46] <elmo> pitti: section 3 of the LGPL
[04:47] <Riddell> interestingly it can be changed to GPL 2 or later, even if the LGPL code is LGPL 2 only
[04:47] <elmo> well, technically you're meant to change the copyright, file, but badger to that
[04:47] <Riddell> we do include a copy of the LGPL
[04:48] <seb128> Riddell: small detail, libeigen-dev section should be libdevel
[04:49] <pitti> seb128: (you can override it in the queue if you want)
[04:50] <seb128> pitti: still better to fix it in the package though no?
[04:50] <Riddell> yeah, I'll fix it in the package
[04:50] <pitti> seb128: of course
[04:50] <seb128> good ;)
[05:07] <jamesh> jwendell|lunch: it does not have USB support yet
[05:07] <jamesh> jwendell|lunch: I've got all the hardware to test USB support though, so it shouldn't be too difficult to implement
[05:32] <iwj> This is TOTALLY FREAKY.  gdm's greeter loops infinitely generating bogus attempts to log in as user="" password="" but only if the X server is using is not on the currently displayed VC.
[05:44] <jwendell> jamesh, great news, if i can help by testing...