[12:14] <vbabiy> O ok
[01:05] <jwendell> Hi geser, i saw i've commented on my upload
[01:07] <jwendell> TheMuso, could you review it now? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6163
[01:43] <RAOF> Sweet zombie jesus, why does our azureus package use CDBS and Debian's use raw debhelper?
[01:46] <StevenK> Heh. Neat.
[01:47] <RAOF> No.  Not neat.
[01:48] <ajmitch> because someone though it'd be nice to change
[01:48] <StevenK> Blame Fujitsu.
[01:51] <StevenK> Actually, surely the changelog should say who is to blame.
[01:53] <ajmitch> only if someone was helpful enough to document it
[01:56] <calc> RAOF: yea i looked at the azureus package and ran away from it quick
[01:56] <calc> RAOF: i was going to merge it a while back but decided to leave it for the experts ;)
[01:57] <RAOF> Right.  So, I'm going to do my darndest to ensure that we can just sync the darn thing in future.
[01:58] <calc> probably figure out what is useful difference and then just add that to the debian version
[01:59] <TheMuso> Hey RAOF, ajmitch, StevenK.
[01:59] <RAOF> Hey TheMuso.
[02:00] <RAOF> Why do people suddenly feel that bugs like "please merge foo from bar" will magically attract swarms of merge fairies?
[02:01] <ajmitch> hello TheMuso 
[02:01] <calc> how long does it take to get a resolution for a core dev app?
[02:02] <calc> i applied 11 days ago and only got one response since then, heh
[02:02] <calc> not even -1 go away messsages
[02:11] <RAOF> Man, we patch the living bejeezus out of azureus.
[02:12] <StevenK> azureus_2.5.0.0repack1-0ubuntu1.patch 05-Jan-2007 08:10   20M
[02:13] <StevenK> ARGH!
[02:16] <calc> RAOF: kill it! :)
[02:16] <nixternal> jwendell: you are one l off of being the super famous fatal1ty :)
[02:17] <jwendell> ok, i'm sorry
[02:17] <nixternal> calc: how many people have bugged you so far about OOo locking up?
[02:17] <calc> RAOF: maybe azureus should stay as is for testing new MOTU's skill of fixing stuff ;)
[02:17] <calc> nixternal: a few apparently its a bug in new gtk
[02:17] <calc> nixternal: works fine on my box though so its not easily reproducible apparently
[02:17] <nixternal> hehe, ya that bug in GTK broke a few things
[02:17] <StevenK> calc: Yeah, and how many people would we scare off saying "Fix that hulking piece of crap" ?
[02:17] <nixternal> it just started today for me
[02:17] <calc> StevenK: hehe
[02:17] <nixternal> or I noticed it today
[02:18] <Amaranth> calc: for core-dev you have to wait for a TB meeting
[02:18] <calc> Amaranth: oh ok, i don't need full +1 vote from motu council though?
[02:18] <StevenK> Amaranth: But he hasn't even gotten one vote yet
[02:18] <calc> StevenK: i got one i think
[02:18] <calc> yea from stefan
[02:18] <calc> StevenK: :P
[02:25] <RAOF> Ah, OK.  That's why azureus is such a pest.  Debian isn't the upstream source, Fedora Core is!
[02:26] <StevenK> Argh!
[02:27] <StevenK> RAOF: Surely sync'ing the damn thing is in our best interest.
[02:29] <RAOF> We'll have a bunch of regessions doing that, particularly the gcj native build.
[02:29] <StevenK> Okay, how about a patch smaller than 20Mb? :-)
[02:29] <RAOF> But, yes, syncing the damn thing seems like a good idea :)
[02:30] <RAOF> I can probably manage that.
[02:32] <StevenK> I thought gcj was quicker
[02:32] <RAOF> Yes, but not than running on the actual java VM?
[02:32] <RAOF> Also, works less often, at least as far as ubuntuforums seems to think.
[02:35] <StevenK> You can file a sync saying "The gcj build is crap and doesn't work so should go" would probably work.
[02:40] <RAOF> You know, the upstream tarball seems to be repacked into a new subdirectory, and have some random plugins added to it.
[02:42] <TheMuso> heh
[02:43] <ScottK> Sync and if it doesn't work, file a removal bug.
[02:44] <ScottK> ajmitch: That's the bitterness.
[02:46] <RAOF> So, I'll sync it, which will drop the gcj build and a bunch of plugins which should be in a separate "azureus-plugins" package *anyway*.  Then I'll package those up from the actual tarball.
[02:47] <TheMuso> RAOF: Does the sid package build in Gutsy?
[02:50] <RAOF> Just checking, thanks.
[02:51] <RAOF> But I'm pretty sure it has to; it doesn't seem to actually do any building.
[02:55] <RAOF> ...or it would, if we called the gtk swt libraries the same thing!
[02:55] <StevenK> Heh
[02:55] <TheMuso> Oh lovely.
[02:57] <mannytu> hellow
[03:01] <ajmitch> ScottK: yay!
[03:19] <zul> oh lindsay lohan will you ever learn
[03:24] <TheMuso> Oh do we even care?
[03:26] <StevenK> I don't, for one.
[03:29] <ajmitch> who's that?
[03:30] <TheMuso> ajmitch: heh yeah.
[03:44] <RAOF> Right, so libswt3.2-gtk-java violates policy.  Yay.
[03:47] <TheMuso> RAOF: Well its in universe. Get fixing. :p
[03:47] <StevenK> RAOF: Hrm? How?
[03:48] <RAOF> StevenK: It installs it's libs to /usr/lib/java; policy says they go to /usr/share/java
[03:49] <StevenK> Hurray!
[03:49] <StevenK> Anyone running Gutsy on a desktop?
[03:50] <TheMuso> StevenK: I plan to in a week or so...
[03:50] <Nafallo> StevenK: yes
[03:50] <RAOF> Furthermore, it's built from eclipse source, the latest upload of which fails to build.
[03:50] <RAOF> StevenK: Does a laptop count? :)
[03:50] <StevenK> Sure.
[03:50] <RAOF> Then "yes".
[03:50] <StevenK> Nafallo, RAOF: Do either of you mind seeing if bug 99934 is fixed?
[03:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 99934 in seahorse "Stalls in infinite loop when creating new ElGamel subkey" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/99934
[03:51] <StevenK> It's marked as fixed in Gnome's bug tracker, and Gutsy has 2.19.5, so it should be okay, but I can't check.
[03:53] <RAOF> StevenK: Nope.  Still hangs.
[03:53] <RAOF> I'll leave it running though, to see if it's just taking *ages*
[03:53] <StevenK> Gasp. persia is to blame for eclipse.
[03:53] <TheMuso> hehe
[03:54] <RAOF> The policy violation is presumably still in Debian, though, that was a sync.
[03:54] <StevenK> Yup.
[03:55] <StevenK> Looks like missing Build-Depends.
[03:55] <RAOF> StevenK: Sorry, that is fixed.  It just takes a long time without any feedback.
[03:55] <StevenK>      [exec]  xpcom.h:17:21: error: nsXPCOM.h: No such file or directory
[03:55] <StevenK>      [exec]  xpcom.h:18:27: error: nsEmbedString.h: No such file or directory
[03:55] <StevenK>      [exec]  xpcom.h:19:28: error: nsIInputStream.h: No such file or directory
[03:55] <StevenK> RAOF: Great, do you want to comment on the bug and nail it shut?
[03:55] <RAOF> It's not being built against xulrunner surely?
[03:55] <RAOF> StevenK: Certainly.
[03:56] <StevenK> Actually, a little bit further up the build says "*** Mozilla embedding support will not be compiled."
[03:57] <StevenK> RAOF: And yes, it is being built against xulrunner.
[03:58] <StevenK> RAOF: Should that be fixed?
[03:59] <RAOF> StevenK: Maybe.  I'll try building the newer eclipse against firefox.
[04:00] <StevenK> It might just need a give-back. xulrunner was last touched 05/07, and eclipse was synced in the middle of June
[04:07] <StevenK> RAOF: If you aren't playing with eclipse, I'd suggest it get given back.
[04:09] <RAOF> StevenK: I'm not playing with it.  Although there's a new debian revision that should be sync'd, too.
[04:12] <StevenK> RAOF: I can file a sync after lunch.
[04:13] <RAOF> That'll be preferable to a giveback, right
[04:13] <RAOF> ?
[04:14] <RAOF> I can do it, if you don't get to it first.
[04:24] <TheMuso> Afternoon Hobbsee.
[04:25] <ajmitch> yay for people who refuse to file bugs
[04:25] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
[04:26] <Hobbsee> heya TheMuso!
[04:26] <Hobbsee> haha
[04:26] <Hobbsee> refuse to fix the bug, until they file a good one
[04:26] <Hobbsee> hiya ajmitch 
[04:26] <ajmitch> this person has a history of going on irc, complaining about something, and not wanting to file a bug in launchpad
[04:27] <TheMuso> ajmitch: -kernel... i.e kano?
[04:27] <ajmitch> yep
[04:27] <ajmitch> certainly not the first time this has happened
[04:27] <TheMuso> Right.
[04:28] <TheMuso> You'd think he's have learnt by now.
[04:28] <ajmitch> TheMuso: some people don't learn
[04:28] <TheMuso> heh
[04:28] <ajmitch> Hobbsee can attest to that
[04:28] <TheMuso> ajmitch: I'm actually starting to find that out through reviewing packages.
[04:28] <TheMuso> I have found myself thinking that people would learn from what we point out to them.
[04:29] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: oh, kano
[04:29] <TheMuso> WHich obviously doesn't happen as often as we'd like.
[04:29] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: another one of your friends
[04:29] <ScottK> Maybe we need a rule that no one can add a package until they've had a removal request fulfilled.
[04:29] <TheMuso> hehe
[04:29] <TheMuso> ScottK: Whaa?
[04:29] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: no, he's been in -devel repeatedly too
[04:30] <ScottK> Just thinking it's cut down on the cruft in the repos and deter people who don't know what they are doing/really want the package from giving us junk to review.
[04:30] <ScottK> it's/it'd
[04:30] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: I know :)
[04:30] <Hobbsee> :)
[04:31] <ajmitch> ScottK: sure, what should I remove to get some new stuff in?
[04:31] <Hobbsee> ScottK: then htey'd file removal requests on things like debian-installer or something.
[04:31] <ajmitch> nah, kde*
[04:31] <TheMuso> lol
[04:32] <ScottK> mostly.
[04:32] <TheMuso> ScottK: I get your drift though.
[04:32] <ajmitch> 19:11 -!- Kano [n=kano@91.64.67.21]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:32] <ajmitch> 19:12 < Kano> hi, please update mc in feisty. it is broken badly!
[04:32] <ajmitch> 19:13 -!- Kano [n=kano@91.64.67.21]  has quit [Remote closed the connection] 
[04:32] <ajmitch> that's what I call a bugreport
[04:32] <TheMuso> Oh yeah!
[04:33] <ScottK> No/Now
[04:34] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: he's the maintainer of kantonix, so he should know better.
[04:34] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: then again, i guess he just fixes bugs as he finds them
[04:34] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: ...and obviously doesn't use any form of bug tracker.
[04:35] <Hobbsee> yeah
[04:35] <ajmitch> you mean, he has no idea of how team development is done?
[04:37] <ajmitch> bother, rc bugs list broken again
[04:38] <ajmitch> happens everytime there's a new libapt
[04:38] <TheMuso> Oh lovely.
[04:39] <TheMuso> Heh. Off he goes, without a sign of stating that any bugs will be filed.
[04:39] <TheMuso> And not likely to file any.
[04:39] <ajmitch> don't expect behaviour to change
[04:40] <TheMuso> Seems that way.
[04:50] <LucidFox> Who should I subscribe to a "move to multiverse" bug?
[04:53] <Hobbsee> LucidFox: ubuntu-archive
[05:05] <ryanakca> is it possible to sync from Debian Experimental, more importantly, http://packages.debian.org/experimental/web/egroupware
[05:05] <ScottK> Yes.  It's possible.  The question is, is it a good idea.
[05:06] <ryanakca> hmm. *tries it in his gutsy schroot*
[05:07] <RAOF> StevenK: Actually, eclipse should probably be merged, not syncd, to fix the policy violation (which, in turn, prevents azureus from building right).
[05:07] <TheMuso> RAOF: Are you aware that specto is sitting in the manual merge list for universe? http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe-manual.html
[05:07] <ScottK> ryanakca: Also look at debian/changelog and see WHY it's in experimental.
[05:07] <RAOF> TheMuso: I am, I actually want to upload a 0.2.2-1 to Debian and sync that.
[05:08] <TheMuso> RAOF: SOunds like a good idea.
[05:08] <RAOF> Although if that takes too long I could just sync the current package now and sync 0.2.2 later.
[05:09] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yep. Was just checking that you knew it was there.
[05:10] <ScottK> Or you could upload 0.2.2-0ubuntu1 and don't sweat it.
[05:12] <RAOF> It's a while until UVF.  Debian->sync seems easier.
[05:13] <ScottK> Yep.  Save direct upload to Ubuntu until the last moment if you need it.
[05:13] <StevenK> RAOF: If you want to merge eclipse, go ahead. I'm happy to upload it for you.
[05:14] <RAOF> StevenK: I'll try to get to it tonight.  I'm cut off from any buildboxes for the moment.
[05:14] <StevenK> Hopefully, it isn't a new upstream release, given the orig tarball is 50Mb
[05:15] <RAOF> Nah, it's 3.2.2-1 to 3.2.2-2
[05:15] <StevenK> RAOF: That's irreponsible. :-P
[05:15] <RAOF> StevenK: ?
[05:15] <StevenK> RAOF: Being cut off from your building machines.
[05:16] <RAOF> Aaah.
[05:16] <RAOF> Yes, I should roll back my server to Fiesty (which has a working acx111 driver)
[05:17] <StevenK> Surely the math department won't notice if you smuggle an amd64 in and hide it under a rug?
[05:17] <RAOF> I've got my laptop, but no network access.  They hate m.
[05:17] <ajmitch> surely the people at work won't notice if I stick a gutsy chroot on a server?
[05:17] <StevenK> Heh
[05:25] <TheMuso> haha
[05:29] <ScottK> Unfortunately for me, "the people at work" is me, so I have to be responsible.
[05:30] <Hobbsee> then just dont tell yourself that you're doing it then.    simple
[05:31] <RAOF> That's where multiple-personalities come in handy
[05:37] <ajmitch> ScottK: sadly that's often the case here as well
[05:38] <ScottK> More fun to play "as long as I don't get caught".
[05:38] <RAOF> Hobbsee: For what?
[05:38] <Hobbsee> motu uvf team
[05:38] <Hobbsee> dont you read the motu ML?
[05:38] <RAOF> Ah.
[05:39] <RAOF> The "going" somewhat confused me.
[05:40] <Hobbsee> RAOF: well, the webpage wont come to me :P
[05:41] <StevenK> Great. Now sear is part of *two* transitions.
[05:41] <StevenK> man-di: ^
[05:42] <StevenK> Heh
[05:43] <jmg> 'uvf'
[05:43] <jmg> ?
[05:43] <StevenK> Upstream Version Freeze
[05:45] <RAOF> The 18th(?) of next month.
[05:46] <StevenK> 16th
[05:47] <RAOF> Near enough
[05:48] <StevenK> Ewwwww!
[05:48] <StevenK> http://pastebin.ca/632745
[05:49] <RAOF> StevenK: ?????
[05:49] <RAOF> What is that crack?
[05:49] <StevenK> I have no idea. But it looks like crack
[05:52] <Hobbsee> ....
[05:52] <StevenK> Thank $DEITY the rules file doesn't play around with it.
[06:09] <ScottK> Any motu hopeful want practice on a sync bug?
[06:09] <ajmitch> sure
[06:09] <ScottK> Heh.
[06:10] <ScottK> pypolicyd-spf is a sync if anyone wants to do it.
[06:10] <ajmitch> hopefully finishing work sometime today, so I can go home
[06:10] <ScottK> Is "finishing" a function of clock ticks or something actually has to get done?
[06:11] <Hobbsee> ScottK: ajmitch doesnt do work.  you should know this.
[06:13] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: thanks
[06:13] <Toadstool> uh, almost forgot to vote
[06:13] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: no problem
[06:13] <Toadstool> hi everybody
[06:13] <ajmitch> hello Toadstool 
[06:14] <jmg> who can vote?
[06:14] <Toadstool> hi ajmitch 
[06:14] <StevenK> ajmitch: My condolences.
[06:14] <Toadstool> jmg: MOTUs
[06:14] <jmg> ah
[06:14] <ajmitch> my vote doesn't count
[06:14] <RAOF> I should probably look at packaging the new Gnucash version, since I actually use it.
[06:14] <ScottK> Hobbsee: I see kdepim is up for a merge.  I "touched it last" but am certainly not the best one to merge it...
[06:15] <Hobbsee> ScottK: right.
[06:15] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i'll have a look.  and shove patches back to debian
[06:16] <Hobbsee> ScottK: oh blergle. that should be merged enough
[06:17] <ScottK> Hobbsee: It's a new upstream point release.  Since we're going to be using it full time in Gutsy, it's probaby good to get all the bug fixing we can get.
[06:18] <Hobbsee> ScottK: okay, will look later.
[06:18] <Hobbsee> ScottK: and will shove all our appropriate patches back, like i did for kdenetwork
[06:19] <Hobbsee> ScottK: you could always upgrade knetworkmanager..
[06:20] <StevenK> Surely that depends how masochistic ScottK is feeling.
[06:20] <StevenK> depends on, even
[06:21] <Hobbsee> oh, bloody kmos
[06:21] <ScottK> What, his removal bugs?
[06:22] <Hobbsee> oh, he's filed them too has he?
[06:22] <Hobbsee> no, he's been closing kopete bugs without checking if they still apply.
[06:22] <Hobbsee> because no one responded in a few weeks
[06:23] <StevenK> Wah.
[06:23] <ajmitch> as you do...
[06:23] <Toadstool> that's an easy way to close bugs, I like it
[06:23] <RAOF> When's that auto-expire LP feature meant to hit, again?L
[06:23] <ajmitch> we should expire all bugs older than 2 hours
[06:23] <Toadstool> auto-expire?!
[06:23] <Fujitsu> 1.1.8, AFAIK.
[06:24] <RAOF> So in a month or so.  Cool.
[06:24] <Fujitsu> About then.
[06:24] <ajmitch> Toadstool: when a bug is incomplete
[06:24] <Toadstool> oh ok, doesn't sound any better to me but whatever
[06:24] <RAOF> Which will pretty much halve the number of bugs on my bugpage :)
[06:25] <Hobbsee> kopete has one or 2 developers -a nd not much time
[06:25] <Hobbsee> geser: why'd you ack balazar, btw?
[06:26] <ajmitch> Toadstool: if someone doesn't respond to a bug for 6 months after someone has asked them for further info, auto-expiry can help
[06:26] <Hobbsee> kmos, if a MOTU or a core dev has filed a sync request bug, then you *probably* dont need to bother touching it.
[06:27] <Hobbsee> seeing as they tend to know more than you do, and so have already done all the steps required.
[06:27] <Hobbsee> grrr.
[06:27] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What's he done now?
[06:27] <StevenK> RAOF: Here's Fujitsu, get him!
[06:27] <Fujitsu> Arrrgh.
[06:27] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/balazar/+bug/124744 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork/+bug/46657
[06:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 46657 in kdenetwork "Kopete gives error when you're on your own contact list" [Medium,Confirmed]  
[06:27] <Toadstool> ajmitch: if the expiration delay is this big, yeah, it makes sense
[06:28] <StevenK> Oh good one, geser. If Hobbsee filed the sync request, you don't need to ack it.
[06:29] <Fujitsu> Nooo.
[06:29] <Fujitsu> I never even touched eclipse :(
[06:35] <Fujitsu> What are everyone's thoughts about reasonable timeouts for bugs?
[06:36] <RAOF> 2 months seems reasonable to me
[06:36] <ajmitch> 2 hours
[06:37] <RAOF> LP as IRC bugtracker :)
[06:37] <Fujitsu> I generally use about 3 months, I think.
[06:38] <StevenK> Besides, even if the sync doesn't meet Build-Depends, it will DEPWAIT and not fail.
[06:39] <Fujitsu> I love Kmos' responses to bug #127348
[06:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127348 in launchpad "Bug comment form not expandable in Firefox 1.0.8" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127348
[06:40] <RAOF> Eeep.
[06:40] <ajmitch> oh dear
[06:41] <ajmitch> that's just nuts
[06:42] <TheMuso> WHo is Kmos?
[06:42] <Fujitsu> Marco Rodrigues (gothicx)
[06:43] <ajmitch> someone being overly helpful on bugs, by the look of things
[06:43] <ScottK> AKA the guy that tried to merge the motumedia and ubuntu-motu teams in LP.
[06:43] <TheMuso> ah. I wish people would use the same nick on LP and IRC>
[06:44] <Fujitsu> Nah, thta'd be too easy.
[06:44] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Was that him? I forget.
[06:44] <ScottK> Yeah.
[06:44] <TheMuso> Interesting comments indeed.
[06:46] <ScottK> RAOF: Maybe he'd want to merge azureus.  That would keep him busy for a while.
[06:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 126516 in malone "would like limited access control for status field changes" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126516
[06:47] <StevenK> ScottK: Argh!
[06:48] <TheMuso> That is an interesting bug.
[06:49] <TheMuso> I'd be enclined to agree myself.
[06:50] <Fujitsu> It does seem really stupid to allow anybody to make a bug completely vanish, but restrict them from just sending it up or down the listings a bit.
[06:50] <ScottK> I thought Won't Fix and Invalid were already controlled.
[06:50] <Fujitsu> Won't Fix and Triaged are.
[06:51] <ScottK> Then the bug is at least partially incorrect as written.
[06:51] <Fujitsu> Slightly.
[06:52] <ScottK> If more bug statuses get restricted we're going to need a must be confirmed team for motu-hopefuls/helpers that can set the status (and no -qa isn't that team IMO).
[06:53] <RAOF> That doesn't really sound too bad.
[06:53] <ajmitch> of course privileged people could still file bugs directly
[06:53] <ajmitch> but a lot of bugs are just support requests
[06:53] <RAOF> And apport, presumably
[06:53] <ajmitch> sure
[06:53] <ajmitch> I guess ;)
[06:54] <RAOF> The crashlogs certainly :)
[06:54] <RAOF> And yes, a fair proportion of the non-crashes do seem to be support requests, or user error.
[06:55] <ajmitch> most users can't tell whether it's something they just need help with, or a real problem
[06:55] <Toadstool> we should get rid of users :)
[06:55] <RAOF> Crashes are (almost) always real problems.  But I agree.
[06:56] <ScottK> We can just keep ignoring them.  It amounts to the same thing.

[06:57] <RAOF> Mmmm, bitters
[06:57] <ajmitch> ScottK: of course you are, you're from debian
[06:57] <ajmitch> well
[06:57] <ScottK> No, actually I'm not.
[06:57] <ScottK> (from Debian).
[06:58] <ajmitch> we've picked up enough of that from debian lately :)
[06:58] <ScottK> I actually came here from opensuse.
[06:58] <Toadstool> ajmitch: the closer to Debian, the bitter? is this what you mean?
[06:58] <ajmitch> Toadstool: yep
[06:58] <StevenK> ScottK: Twitch
[06:58] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Even after Mark's ill-fated mailing list post?
[06:58] <ajmitch> StevenK: heh
[06:59] <ScottK> No, before.
[06:59] <StevenK> Hah. I'd forgotten about that.
[06:59] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: the "novell sucks, time to bail out, guys!" mail?
[06:59] <Fujitsu> That's the one.
[06:59] <ScottK> I had brief relationship with them in which I got a very shiny and useable opensuse 10.1 KDE desktop.
[06:59] <ScottK> Only one little problem.
[07:00] <ScottK> No way to update it.  
[07:00] <Fujitsu> It's OpenSUSE?
[07:00] <TheMuso> ScottK: Oh lovely.
[07:00] <ScottK> Is it?  I thought they changed it to opensuse.
[07:00] <RAOF> Ooops, I think I know why eclips FTBFS: debian/control wasn't regenerated for Ubuntu.
[07:00] <Fujitsu> I'm not sure of the capitalisation, but I was pointing out that that was a problem.
[07:00] <ScottK> Yeah.  They completely switched to a brand new update system that was added (and the old one removed) after the last public test release.
[07:01] <Fujitsu> RAOF: That's not a valid excuse for not building.
[07:01] <ScottK> It didn't go well.
[07:01] <Fujitsu> Why should it need regenerating?
[07:01] <RAOF> Fujitsu: Why not?  The build-deps are wrong until the control file is regend
[07:01] <Fujitsu> Sounds special.
[07:01] <RAOF> Fujitsu: Because eclipse is on serious crack
[07:01] <Fujitsu> Anyway, I have to go now.
[07:02] <ajmitch> RAOF: but eclipse is java & shiny & wonderful
[07:02] <ScottK> Then they basically said "What did you expect".  You all are just beta testers for SLES anyway.  You don't expect it to work do you?  (I paraphrase).
[07:02] <Fujitsu> Impressive.
[07:02] <TheMuso> ScottK: eeeeew
[07:02] <jmg> heh
[07:02] <RAOF> ajmitch: Yes, java is what all the cool kids are doing behind the bikeshed (which should be green, by the way)
[07:03] <ajmitch> RAOF: sorry, we prefer brown around here
[07:03] <ScottK> Yeah.  My list of must haves for a Linux distro is now: 1.  Product I use must be the actual product of the organization making the distro.  2.  Must use Debian package management system.  3.  Must have KDE.  4.  Must have a decent server version.
[07:03] <ScottK> Thus I'm here.
[07:03] <ajmitch> ubuntu has a decent server version?
[07:03] <ScottK> Recently I've added no patent crack from MS to my list.
[07:03] <RAOF> ajmitch: I'll fight you to the death about it's green-ness
[07:04] <ScottK> ajmitch: For my purposes yes.
[07:04] <ajmitch> ScottK: problem is that different people have different requirements for a server distro, and ubuntu hasn't really fulfilled all that so far
[07:04] <ScottK> Agreed.
[07:04] <ajmitch> it'd be fine for me (except I use debian) :)
[07:05] <ScottK> All the piece parts are there for a great mail server, but you do have to know how to turn the knobs.
[07:05] <TheMuso> Ubuntu will be fine when I get my server built
[07:07] <ScottK> Oh.  That reminds me...  At the time I needed Postfix 2.2 or later.
[07:07] <ScottK> That narrowed the field some more.
[07:07] <ajmitch> etch is adequate here
[07:08] <ScottK> Etch would meet my server needs, but it wasn't released a year ago.
[07:09] <ajmitch> and also centos, which is gone now, thankfully
[07:09] <ScottK> My first operational mail server was Sarge, but Postfix 2.1 didn't have all the knobs I needed.
[07:20] <StevenK> Heh, my mail server is currently Etch with Exim 4.6
[07:23] <ajmitch> why do you dislike exim?
[07:23] <StevenK> Because the Debian maintainer is an arrogant asshole
[07:23] <ajmitch> ah
[07:24] <StevenK> He seems to have no qualms about breaking stuff, and I've also come to the conclusion that the way Exim queues mail is sub-optimal
[07:26] <ScottK> StevenK: Have you ever considered switching to Postfix.
[07:27] <StevenK> ScottK: The new mail servers at $WORK are Postfix
[07:29] <ScottK> Ah.  Excellent.
[07:30] <ScottK> I think it's time to go to bed.
[07:30] <ScottK> Good night all.
[07:30] <StevenK> 'Night
[07:53] <WorkingGeier> hi
[07:54] <WorkingGeier> I'm trying to use dpatch-edit-patch inside the gcc package
[07:54] <WorkingGeier> the directory being patched is not the toplevel
[07:54] <WorkingGeier> dpatch-edit-patch: Error: "src" is not the toplevel directory of a Debian package, aborting.
[07:55] <WorkingGeier> how can I tell dpatch that I'd like to work within that directory
[07:55] <WorkingGeier> ?
[07:57] <TheMuso> WorkingGeier: You have to run dpatch-edit-patch from the top directory of the package.
[07:57] <WorkingGeier> yes
[07:57] <WorkingGeier> I'm doing that, and passing the subdirectory with the sources as -s src
[07:58] <TheMuso> WorkingGeier: Have you read the dpatch-edit-patch manpage?
[07:58] <WorkingGeier> yes
[07:58] <WorkingGeier> there seems to be an additional complication
[07:58] <WorkingGeier> gcc-4.2 does not have a 00list file
[07:58] <WorkingGeier> instead, a debian/rules fragment builds the list dynamically
[07:59] <TheMuso> WorkingGeier: Well you would know that when you run dpatch-edit-patch, you will be placed at the shell in a temporary directory. You then edit the files you want patched, and then exit the shell.
[07:59] <WorkingGeier> yes
[07:59] <WorkingGeier> I've already used dpatch-edit-patch in the past, although it has been such a long time that I forgot the name of the tool
[08:00] <WorkingGeier> I need to edit an existing patch
[08:00] <TheMuso> Well I don't quite understand your problem then.
[08:00] <TheMuso> Well you simply run dpatch-edit-patch with the name of the patch as an argument, minus the .dpatch extension.
[08:00] <WorkingGeier> two problems
[08:00] <WorkingGeier> the source is not in the toplevel
[08:00] <TheMuso> That does not matter.
[08:00] <WorkingGeier> but rather in the src/ subdirectory
[08:01] <TheMuso> Doesn't matter where. You still run dpatch-edit-patch from the top level, and pass it the name of a new patch you want to create, or an existing patch you want to edit.
[08:02] <WorkingGeier> and applying patch gcc-ssp-default to ./ ... failed.
[08:02] <TheMuso> Well you will likely have to edit that patch
[08:03] <WorkingGeier> well
[08:03] <WorkingGeier> the patch failed because the source is not where dpatch expected it
[08:03] <TheMuso> Well the patch wsan't made properly.
[08:03] <TheMuso> wasn't even
[08:04] <WorkingGeier> the biggest problem seems to be the absence of 00list
[08:05] <TheMuso> Right.
[08:05] <TheMuso> What package are you working on?
[08:05] <WorkingGeier> and the fact that dpatch calls the clean target, which deletes the src directory
[08:05] <WorkingGeier> gcc-4.2
[08:06] <TheMuso> Ummmm. Ok. Do you have a particular reason for working on it?
[08:06] <WorkingGeier> gcc-ssp-default.dpatch is wrong and breaks the build
[08:06] <WorkingGeier> and the workarounds are even worse
[08:07] <TheMuso> If this is for gutsy, you might want to talk to those who maintain GCC in ubuntu.
[08:07] <TheMuso> And discuss it with them.
[08:07] <WorkingGeier> sure
[08:07] <StevenK> Same person who maintains it in Debian, actually.
[08:07] <WorkingGeier> yes, I talked to him yesterday; he didn't seem to understand why it was broken
[08:09] <WorkingGeier> it sets -fstack-protector in the compiler stage by default, but the linker does not get -lssp by default
[08:10] <WorkingGeier> which makes stage 2 of the bootstrap fail with missing symbols
[08:10] <WorkingGeier> the workaround was to pass -fno-stack-protector during bootstrap
[08:11] <WorkingGeier> hmm
[08:11] <WorkingGeier> dpatch-edit-patch insists on cleaning out the directory
[08:12] <WorkingGeier> deleting the source
[08:31] <Toadstool> WorkingGeier: why do you wanna use dpatch-edit-patch with gcc? it doesn't use dpatch but a dpatch-like over-complicated custom patch system afaik
[08:31] <WorkingGeier> yep
[08:32] <WorkingGeier> the question is how I would edit a patch otherwise
[08:32] <WorkingGeier> by hand?
[08:32] <Toadstool> I guess so
[08:33] <Toadstool> did you ask doko already?
[08:33] <WorkingGeier> last time I spoke to him (yesterday) he didn't seem to have time
[08:34] <WorkingGeier> and I hadn't dived into the code enough to see where the problem was
[08:36] <Toadstool> WorkingGeier: well, I ain't no gcc packaging expert but I don't think dpatch-edit-patch is gonna be of any help here, given that there's no 00list or anything similar available or even generated
[08:37] <WorkingGeier> indeed
[08:37] <Toadstool> off to bed, it's getting late over here, good luck
[08:37] <WorkingGeier> thanks
[08:59] <man-di> StevenK: sear is a mess...
[09:00] <WorkingGeier> hmm
[09:00] <WorkingGeier> it seems gcc does not want to be built with SSP
[09:00] <StevenK> man-di: Heh. Great ...
[09:01] <man-di> StevenK: which transitions do you mean by (*two*)
[09:01] <StevenK> man-di: libatlas and cal3d
[09:02] <man-di> StevenK: just update them to newest
[09:02] <StevenK> man-di: Do a rebuild of it?
[09:02] <man-di> StevenK: I hope to get a patch for sear and guichan soon
[09:02] <man-di> StevenK: for sear 0.6.3
[09:03] <man-di> StevenK: do you mean in debian or ubuntu?
[09:03] <StevenK> You can't just upload it to Debian? :-)
[09:03] <StevenK> Ubuntu
[09:03] <man-di> StevenK: no, because it doesnt build
[09:04] <StevenK> 0.6.3 doesn't? Neat.
[09:04] <man-di> StevenK: 0.6.1 (current debian unstable) doesnt build with eris in unstable and 0.6.3 (new upstream) doesnt build with current guichan
[09:04] <man-di> I bet 0.6.1 doenst build with current guichan either
[09:04] <man-di> it depends on guichan 0.5.0
[09:05] <man-di> and there were major api changes in guichan 0.5.0 -> 0.6.0
[09:05] <man-di> there is already guichan 0.7.0 coming soon
[09:06] <man-di> I sponsor the maintainer and I said to him if you want to get it in, send me patch that makes it work with sear too
[09:06] <man-di> (just in case upstream is not faster)
[09:06] <man-di> StevenK: I think I have described the mess now a bit
[09:07] <jussi01> good morning. how do I check if a package is already in debian?
[09:08] <WorkingGeier> jussi01, packages.debian.org
[09:08] <man-di> jussi01: packages.debian.org
[09:08] <jussi01> ok, thanks WorkingGeier, man-di
[09:12] <man-di> jussi01: but beware, packages.debian.org is normally some hours/days behind reality
[09:13] <StevenK> ... days, weeks ...
[09:13] <jussi01> hmmm, this is weird. I am looking at packaging a program. I cant find it on debian, ubuntu or revu. however, the upstream tarball has already got a debian directory...
[09:13] <Hobbsee> jussi01: some upstreams do their own debian/
[09:14] <man-di> jussi01: some upstreams do this
[09:14] <jussi01> ok, so what do I do with this? what is the proceedure??
[09:14] <man-di> jussi01: but its IMO a bad decision to include debian/ dir upstream
[09:14] <jussi01> bug 128068
[09:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 128068 in Ubuntu "Xjadeo" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128068
[09:16] <jussi01> btw, has anyone seen persia/know why he hasnt ben around?
[09:16] <WorkingGeier> jussi01, stuff like that happens often
[09:16] <Hobbsee> jussi01: i think he got caught up in $realwork
[09:16] <WorkingGeier> jussi01, it makes the .diff.gz hard to read
[09:16] <LucidFox> something has happened to packages.ubuntu.com
[09:17] <LucidFox> It gives an "Unable to connect" error when searching packages
[09:17] <WorkingGeier> jussi01, just add $(RM) commands for all the files you don't need out of upstream's debian/ dir, and modify the read
[09:17] <WorkingGeier> *rest
[09:30] <soren> Wow... mailman seems to be in a good mood today.
[09:32] <ajmitch> hello soren 
[09:33] <soren> 30 seconds from my e-mail to ubuntu-motu hit my mail server, got sent to the Ubuntu mail server, went through mailman, and landed back in my inbox. O.O
[09:33] <soren> ajmitch: Good morning, Andrew.
[09:33] <ajmitch> wow
[09:33] <Burgundavia> hey soren
[09:33] <\sh> 30 seconds is too much ,-)
[09:33] <soren> Burgundavia: 'Morning, Corey.
[09:33] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: been enjoying your little trip?
[09:33] <Burgundavia> oh indeed
[09:34] <soren> Burgundavia: You don't look too happy on that photo :)
[09:34] <Burgundavia> I am happy
[09:34] <Burgundavia> just "concentrating"
[09:34] <soren> Oh. :)
[09:35] <Burgundavia> like I said, I was working hard
[09:35] <soren> True, true.
[10:14] <RAOF> Building Eclipse should not take 2Gb of ram
[10:19] <StevenK> Hah
[10:20] <StevenK> There's one package I tried to build here, and g++ was taking up 1.3Gb of RAM and did nothing for 2.5 hours
[10:21] <TheMuso> lovely
[10:27] <RAOF> So, building eclipse very nearly exhausts 2GB of ram + 1.5Gbb of swap.  Java is sooooo awesome
[10:28] <StevenK> Hah
[10:50] <guardian> hmm hello, what's the command line to apply a patch to an original package ? on packages.ubuntu.com i can download .orig.tar.gz and .diff.gz
[10:50] <guardian> i've never done that
[10:50] <guardian> should it uncompress them first ?
[10:50] <guardian>  /s/it/i
[10:51] <asisak> guardian: dpkg-source -x .dsc
[10:51] <asisak> guardian: or you simply "dget proto://pa/th/filename_version.dsc" 
[10:51] <guardian> cool thx
[10:52] <guardian> hmm strange, i can't connect to http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/allpackages
[10:54] <asisak> guardian: try to get the package via apt-get source or get it as well as you got .orig.tar.gz and .diff.gz
[10:54] <man-di> asisak, guardian: dget -x ....
[10:55] <man-di> guardian: http://packages.ubuntu.com/ is down, it seems
[11:00] <guardian> so dget -x http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/section/package.dsc  ?
[11:00] <guardian> once packages.ubuntu.com is up off course
[11:01] <guardian> or course
[11:02] <asisak> guardian: you can use any of the mirrors inbetween
[11:02] <asisak> (any = any that has the necessary file)
[11:13] <guardian> asisak: where could i have the mirror list  of packages.ubuntu.com please ?
[11:13] <asisak> I would use a sources.list entry and apt-get source instead
[11:13] <guardian> you mean mirrors like fr.archive.ubuntu.com ?
[11:13] <guardian> k
[11:18] <asac> hi! anyone geeky enough to run gutsy + compiz?
[11:18] <geser> asac: yes
[11:18] <asac> geser: do you see firefox bug 
[11:19] <\sh> is it already working with ati cards and xinerama?
[11:19] <asac> geser: aka not-properly repainted during minimize/maximize?
[11:20] <asac> geser: i think during resize of main window it should happen too ... but not sure
[11:20] <guardian> do you recommend to make the full package description 80 columns wide ?
[11:21] <geser> asac: I see no problem with firefox
[11:21] <asac> guardian: wasn't that 70 columns?
[11:21] <asac> geser: wait a second i'll try to find the bug
[11:21] <guardian> i don't know, maintainer guide says 60 columns for the short dfescription
[11:21] <guardian> but says nothing for the long description
[11:22] <asac> geser: its bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/113086
[11:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 113086 in firefox "Enabling Desktop Effects, some part of firefox and thunderbird windows are black for few seconds when I deminimize them." [Medium,Confirmed]  
[11:22] <asac> geser: can you look if you see that
[11:22] <asac> ?
[11:23] <asac> guardian: try to use long lines and run lintian/linda ... iirc it complains if they are too long
[11:23] <asac> ... and says you what maximum columns it expects
[11:23] <guardian> asac: do you use 70 ?
[11:24] <asac> yes ... but that might be wrong :)
[11:24] <asac> its been a long time when i adapted that habit ... might have changed ... might have never been right ;)
[11:26] <geser> asac: I see no such problem
[11:26] <asac> geser: can you try thunderbird? 
[11:26] <asac> according to summary it should be more visible there
[11:26] <asac> geser: what kind of effects are enabled?
[11:26] <asac> do you have minimize/maximize effects?
[11:28] <geser> I haven't thunderbird installed
[11:29] <geser> I've animations enabled (and set zoom for minimize)
[11:30] <geser> I'll try the minimize effect plugin
[11:31] <asac> geser: thanks
[11:31] <asac> geser: should be reproducible ... e.g. makes sense according to compiz devs
[11:31] <geser> no difference with the minimize effect plugin
[11:32] <asac> i think the bug is for a short period after unminimizing
[11:32] <asac> do you have any animations during unminimizing?
[11:33] <asac> or maybe if you minimize a normal sized window ... and then maximize directly (e.g. with right click on the task-bar -> Maximize)?
[11:34] <geser> still nothing
[11:36] <asac> damn
[11:37] <geser> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/31218/ that's the compiz packages I've installed
[11:38] <geser> I've a ATI Radeon 9800pro and I'm using the free radeon driver
[11:39] <LucidFox> how do I replace the install prefix for CMake?
[11:40] <geser> I use also compiz on my notebook with Intel 915 graphics and don't remember seeing problems in firefox
[11:40] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[11:40] <asac> geser: hmmm thanks for testing
[11:45] <asac> geser: have you tried thunderbird? can you do so please?
[11:55] <geser> asac: can't reproduce it with thunderbird either
[12:11] <asac> geser: ok thanks
[12:12] <NeilW> Morning all. Anybody available yet to look at a REVU package?
[04:44] <Hobbsee> smc (0.99.6-2ubuntu1) gutsy; urgency=low
[04:44] <Hobbsee>   * Rebuild for libcegui-mk2-0c2a -> libcegui-mk2-1 transition.
[04:44] <Hobbsee>   * Remove libcegui-mk2-dev from the Depends.
[04:44] <Hobbsee>   * Munge Maintainer field as per spec.
[04:44] <Hobbsee>  -- Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>  Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:32:38 +1000
[04:44] <Hobbsee> StevenK: why the removal?
[04:46] <StevenK> I think the -dev was libcegui-mk2-1-dev
[04:46] <Hobbsee> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smc/+bug/118308
[04:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118308 in smc "missing dependency for smc" [Medium,Fix released]  
[04:46] <StevenK> I think it was done so I could upload a fixed libcegui-mk2 and everything else at the same time and have everything hit DEPWAIT rather than failing to build.
[04:47] <Hobbsee> ...right
[04:48] <StevenK> Actually, sorry, I misunderstood.
[04:48] <StevenK> It removed it because I thought I was being clever.
[04:48] <StevenK> It turns out from that bug, smc uses dlopen(). The bastards.
[04:49] <Hobbsee> asisak: that openbox change - why not get all the patches accepted in debian?
[04:53] <guardian_> geser: because data files are different for en_GB and en_US and i'm about to create data packages for my application
[05:03] <LucidFox> how do I "properly" create a transitional package?
[05:03] <soren> Carefully
[05:04] <LucidFox> if I just add a package with an empty .install file whose sole dependency is some other package, it still contains a usr/share/doc directory
[05:10] <soren> LucidFox: They always do.
[05:14] <geser> guardian_: can't it be detected at runtime?
[05:21] <guardian_> no unfortunately not
[05:42] <geser> guardian_: what about multi-user system where one user prefers en_GB and other en_US? does the programm work for both?
[05:42] <guardian_> yes
[05:43] <guardian_> anyway, i named my package foo-data-en-gb and foo-data-en-us
[05:44] <geser> looks sane
[05:51] <LucidFox> What is "not-binnmuable-any-depends-all"?
[05:52] <AndyP> LucidFox: http://lintian.debian.org/reports/Tnot-binnmuable-any-depends-all.html