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| === Topic for #ubuntu-doc: Ubuntu Documentation Team http://doc.ubuntu.com or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam | Get involved! http://www.mdke.org/?p=67 | backlog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | SVN - https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos | Please observe the Ubuntu CoC @ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct | Next meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda | ||
| === Topic (#ubuntu-doc): set by crimsun at Sat Dec 30 01:13:50 2006 | ||
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| mdke | mpt: well, those pages all do; I was thinking more of the question of how/whether to incorporate that material into our styleguide | 09:01 |
|---|---|---|
| nixternal | mornin' | 09:01 |
| Admiral_laptop | hehe, i see i'm not the online up nixternal :) | 09:01 |
| nixternal | huh? | 09:01 |
| nixternal | haha | 09:02 |
| nixternal | only one you mean? | 09:02 |
| nixternal | stinkin' broken gtk | 09:02 |
| Admiral_laptop | i broke this server, its not passing information correctly anymore | 09:03 |
| Admiral_laptop | i meant only one in our area. the other chicago channels are dead | 09:03 |
| mdke | morning all | 09:13 |
| mdke | nixternal: fancy approving the fridge story in the queue? | 09:14 |
| nixternal | will do now | 09:15 |
| mdke | thanks | 09:15 |
| mdke | it's nice to have a bit of momentum behind docs again, way to go philbull | 09:16 |
| nixternal | done | 09:16 |
| nixternal | no doubt | 09:16 |
| nixternal | seen a few new faces today as well | 09:16 |
| mdke | cool | 09:17 |
| mdke | nixternal: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/IndependentDocEfforts?action=show - any comments | 09:31 |
| mdke | i can't really think of a good response to the "i'm making money" justification | 09:32 |
| Admiral_laptop | might also want to talk to the folks behing http://ubuntuguide.org | 09:35 |
| mdke | I think that's one of those listed | 09:36 |
| Admiral_laptop | nope | 09:36 |
| mdke | yes, it is | 09:37 |
| Admiral_laptop | which one? | 09:38 |
| mdke | fourth on the list | 09:38 |
| Admiral_laptop | dur, my glasses need to be upped i think. can't read. | 09:38 |
| mdke | :) | 09:40 |
| Admiral_laptop | the only thing I can think of about the money argument would be to link back to the original source | 09:42 |
| mdke | ok, gtg | 09:50 |
| mdke | cya | 09:50 |
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| kwah | hi! simple question: is localized documentation https://help.ubuntu.com/ available online? | 11:54 |
| dsas | kwah: Each locoteam may localise it and store it on their own loco site. | 11:55 |
| dsas | e.g. the italian loco team have it on help.ubuntu-it.org | 11:56 |
| kwah | dsas, as far as I understand help.ubuntu.com contains the same doecumentation as in System - Help and support menu | 11:57 |
| dsas | kwah: That's right (except for the content under help.ubuntu.com/community) | 11:57 |
| kwah | So, this docmunentation is translated through synaptic | 11:57 |
| dsas | kwah: It's translated through Rosetta (launchpad) and installed as a "langpack" like other software. | 11:58 |
| kwah | and it used to be available via common web-site | 11:58 |
| kwah | why did it change? | 11:58 |
| kwah | sorry, of course through launchpad | 11:59 |
| dsas | kwah: The english HTML versions are then uploaded to help.ubuntu.com and other teams take a copy of their translated html versions and upload to their webspace. | 11:59 |
| dsas | kwah: As for why it changed, I don't know. Maybe part of the better-wiki-docs spec. | 11:59 |
| kwah | hm. how loco team can get this sort of documentation for upload on their own web-space? | 12:00 |
| kwah | i mean translated version of course | 12:00 |
| dsas | kwah: I think you have to build it yourself (this is pretty easy I think) | 12:02 |
| kwah | the only way I see right now is to build it myself | 12:02 |
| dsas | kwah: Maybe \https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation will help (see the "testing translation" part) | 12:02 |
| kwah | right | 12:02 |
| kwah | ok thanks. | 12:02 |
| kwah | dsas, I will check this out | 12:03 |
| kwah | btw, do you know about any efforts to structure wiki taking into account available translations? | 12:03 |
| kwah | here I mean community pages of help.ubuntu.com | 12:04 |
| dsas | kwah: I think current policy is that each loco team does this on their own wiki. | 12:04 |
| dsas | kwah: I am not very involved with the docteam though, mdke, nixternal and others know more than I. | 12:04 |
| kwah | dsas, thanks for your help and time. | 12:05 |
| dsas | kwah: no problem, hope I have helped. | 12:05 |
| kwah | yep. thanks. | 12:06 |
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| ian_brasil_ | nixternal: hi...i put the guide in /ubuntu-doc/generic on my machine here | 01:06 |
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| ubotu | New bug: #128495 in ubuntu-docs (main) "The Installation section of the Switching from Windows guide is out of date" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/128495 | 01:35 |
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| nixternal | holy smokes! that docuMENTORS post brought a ton of movement in no time! | 05:11 |
| jjesse | i know its awesome | 05:11 |
| jjesse | hoepfully we can get some peple to work on kubuntu docs out of them | 05:11 |
| nixternal | hehe | 05:12 |
| nixternal | no love man :) | 05:12 |
| jjesse | i know, never is | 05:12 |
| nixternal | hey, did I tell you...this weekend Phil and I had lunch? he is/was in town working at Fermi lab right up the street | 05:12 |
| jjesse | oh that's cool | 05:12 |
| jjesse | i'm in chicago again in sept i think | 05:12 |
| nixternal | ya, he is way Kool :) | 05:13 |
| nixternal | so am I! what a coincidence :) | 05:13 |
| jjesse | the week of the 2nd | 05:13 |
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| tristanbob_ | mdke: did you see my comment on your blog? | 06:10 |
| tristanbob_ | just posted | 06:10 |
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| tristanbob | mdke: sorry if I missed your reply - had to reboot | 06:45 |
| jjesse | tristanbob: i don't think there was a reply in irc | 07:07 |
| tristanbob | thanks jjesse | 07:11 |
| jjesse | np | 07:12 |
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| bdmurray | How did you advertise your mentoring program? | 08:02 |
| jjesse | bdmurray: hadd a docteam meeting yesterday and then sent an email to ubuntu-doc mailing list | 08:08 |
| jjesse | also mdke wrote a note on his blog | 08:09 |
| bdmurray | ah the power of the blog | 08:10 |
| jjesse | ah the power of a planet :) | 08:11 |
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| bdmurray | Incidentally, how do you all run Gutsy? | 08:20 |
| bdmurray | On real hardware or in a virtual machine . . . | 08:20 |
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| tristanbob | Matthew, agree with your point, we should work together to create excellent documentation that can be found in one place. | 08:29 |
| tristanbob | If that is our goal, dont you think it is about time the Ubuntu Wiki provided a WSIWYG editing interface? I remember the first time I had to learn wiki style editing, and it is was a frustrating experience. This learning curve is an unnecessary barrier that stops many people from contributing to the wiki. | 08:29 |
| tristanbob | What do you guys think about that? | 08:29 |
| tristanbob | Any plans to add WSIWG functionality to the wiki? | 08:30 |
| jjesse | tristanbob: i don't know how much control we as a documentation team have over what wiki engine is used | 08:30 |
| tristanbob | probably no control, but definitely influence | 08:31 |
| mdke | bdmurray: the fridge. Didn't blog yet | 08:35 |
| mdke | tristanbob: yes, I've read your comment | 08:35 |
| mdke | tristanbob: but I just got home from work so haven't had an opportunity to reply yet | 08:36 |
| tristanbob | mdke: np | 08:36 |
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| mdke | tristanbob: we've been pushing for an update to the wiki software for a long time but the sysadmins seem to be rather resistant. I will try and raise the subject again. But, I don't think the wysiwyg editor is a huge barrier to contribution for most people, because wiki markup is in fact incredibly simple | 08:39 |
| mdke | an update would be helpful for lots of reasons though | 08:40 |
| tristanbob | mdke: entering text is easy, but tables, formating text, is quite non-intuitive until you read the docs | 08:42 |
| tristanbob | mdke: entering text is easy, but tables, formatting text, is quite non-intuitive until you read the docs | 08:43 |
| mdke | tables can be tricky yes, but those are rarely used for documentation | 08:47 |
| mdke | not to the extent that is prohibitive for contribution anyway | 08:47 |
| mdke | wow, there has been an excellent response to the mentoring announcement | 09:20 |
| Admiral_Chicago | seriously. | 09:27 |
| fijam | my mailbox is stuffed. | 09:38 |
| jjesse | that's a good problem to have :) | 09:39 |
| jjesse | we need to track these and get people working now | 09:39 |
| mdke | yes, we're in danger of losing track already. Let's do a table | 09:46 |
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| LaserJock | hola DocuMENTORS!! | 09:49 |
| mdke | Admiral_Chicago: is it kubuntu or xubuntu you are interested in again? | 09:50 |
| === mdke is doing a table | ||
| mdke | hiya LaserJock | 09:50 |
| jjesse | cool | 09:50 |
| jjesse | Admiral_Chicago: does Xubuntu work | 09:50 |
| Admiral_Chicago | mdke: both. my focus is xubuntu but I know Kubuntu a lot better and would help there as well | 09:50 |
| mdke | thanks | 09:50 |
| Admiral_Chicago | jjesse: yes it works. | 09:51 |
| jjesse | Admiral_Chicago: meant that Admiral_Chicag works on Xubuntu | 09:52 |
| LaserJock | so have we defined what it means to me a mentor? | 09:52 |
| LaserJock | like what is expected | 09:52 |
| Admiral_Chicago | jjesse: well jim and I have been meeting and learning docbook and making patches | 09:53 |
| Admiral_Chicago | we have a roadmap for when we want things done, its been tough though | 09:53 |
| jjesse | my statement was in response to mdke | 09:53 |
| Admiral_Chicago | oh I see. :) | 09:53 |
| mdke | LaserJock: it really means just to give a commitment to give advice on the mailing list for your "student" and to prioritise reviewing patches | 09:54 |
| LaserJock | ok | 09:54 |
| LaserJock | I'll sign up for the packaging guide and Edubuntu | 09:54 |
| mdke | obviously, other people can still reply and review patches too if they wish | 09:55 |
| LaserJock | although I'd *like* to have more help with Edubuntu | 09:55 |
| === mdke nods | ||
| === LaserJock pokes nixternal | ||
| Admiral_Chicago | hehe | 09:55 |
| Admiral_Chicago | I'm glad we have so many people responding, the hard part will be getting them workin and sticking around | 10:02 |
| jjesse | !nixternal | 10:02 |
| ubotu | Oh no! The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived! He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too! | 10:02 |
| LaserJock | yes, we need to go from "Yippee! give me something to do!" to "I'm working on this specific doc/topic/bug" | 10:04 |
| DarkRaven | hiya....which package needs attention, keeping in mind that I need to be mentored....I have downloaded the ubuntu-docs repo...? | 10:04 |
| mdke | that's right | 10:05 |
| mdke | phil has done a pretty good job of assigning some bugs already, I've added a table on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Mentoring to keep focused on who is doing what | 10:05 |
| LaserJock | we do need to have a list of "bite-sized" task for people to look at | 10:05 |
| LaserJock | mdke: yes, I'm guessing bugs might be a helpful thing here | 10:06 |
| mdke | DarkRaven: the best idea would be to have a look at the documentation and find something you are interested in. Alternatively, have a look through our list of bugs or tasks (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Tasks) | 10:06 |
| mdke | LaserJock: we have that list (see above link) | 10:06 |
| DarkRaven | shot mdke....I'll have a look.... | 10:06 |
| mdke | shot? | 10:06 |
| DarkRaven | thanks... | 10:06 |
| mdke | ah, I thought I smelled a cricketing term | 10:07 |
| LaserJock | mdke: yes, I was very happy to see that | 10:07 |
| DarkRaven | my apologies...a term used here.... | 10:07 |
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| bdmurray | Does the doc team work on documentation for the development release only? | 11:23 |
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| Admiral_Chicago | bdmurray: what do you mean? | 11:26 |
| bdmurray | I mean there is going to be an update for Dapper and maybe it could ship with updated documentation. | 11:27 |
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| bdmurray | But I am not sure if much is going to change. | 11:44 |
| fijam | as for stable releases, updates are generally security updates, so there's not much to change in the docs. | 11:45 |
| nixternal | yup | 11:46 |
| bdmurray | It is a point release though | 11:46 |
| mdke | we've already pushed updates to dapper in the past | 11:46 |
| mdke | same principles apply as do to other packages | 11:46 |
| mdke | the material is in branch/releasename in our svn repository | 11:46 |
| nixternal | how do you get an SRU approved with Docs if they aren't security related? | 11:48 |
| nixternal | unless you are backporting them? | 11:48 |
| bdmurray | I thought there was an exception made for the documentation. | 11:49 |
| bdmurray | Meaning that it doesn't need to go through exactly the same procedure. | 11:49 |
| nixternal | I don't know..tis why I was asking | 11:50 |
| dsas | it was mentioned on the list a few months ago... | 11:50 |
| mdke | nixternal: it's not easy to get sru approval but can be done for serious bugs | 11:51 |
| nixternal | speaking of lists, where is Burger when you need him? | 11:51 |
| mdke | at the moment we don't have a different policy for documentation, although it's been discussed | 11:51 |
| nixternal | mdke: rock on then...I wonder how much stuff has changed that a point release is necessary for docs? | 11:51 |
| bdmurray | FWIW, I agree with this; if you have updates which should really go | 11:52 |
| bdmurray | in, the procedure shouldn't block you from doing that. | 11:52 |
| nixternal | I can't even remember Dapper :) | 11:52 |
| mdke | nixternal: I can't think of anything off-hand, but we can fix bugs if other people can :) | 11:52 |
| bdmurray | ^- That is what Tollef the Release Manager said. | 11:52 |
| nixternal | woohoo! | 11:52 |
| nixternal | now that is what I wanted to do during the Dapper days, and you used to get mad at me for changing strings :) | 11:52 |
| nixternal | muhehehe! | 11:52 |
| nixternal | svn revert was my best friend back then | 11:52 |
| mdke | but they need to be serious, because it's not worth it otherwise | 11:52 |
| nixternal | ya | 11:53 |
| bdmurray | I think if it is a string that could cause more bug reports it is worth changing. | 11:53 |
| nixternal | and i can't think of any that are serious in Kubuntu off-hand w/o going through the old bug logs | 11:53 |
| mdke | we don't have much contribution, and rolling packages for a sru is quite a large effort | 11:53 |
| mdke | --> bed | 11:53 |
| nixternal | g'nite homeskillet! | 11:53 |
| nixternal | ;) | 11:53 |
| mdke | --> dictionary | 11:54 |
| nixternal | hahaha | 11:54 |
| bdmurray | nixternal: did you know there are vmware images available for dapper? | 11:54 |
| nixternal | if you find it, I would drop dead right here | 11:54 |
| nixternal | bdmurray: and breezy, and hoary, and even debian potato :) | 11:54 |
| nixternal | I was just looking at all of the vmware images on the vmware site...it was rather interesting to say the least | 11:54 |
| mdke | hmm. Skillet - a cylindrical serving vessel of the late 17th and early 18th centuries, having a hinged lid, a handle, and, sometimes, feet. | 11:54 |
| nixternal | hahahah | 11:55 |
| nixternal | do you have feet? | 11:55 |
| nixternal | homeskillet was Larry the Cable Guy trying to be a gangster I think | 11:55 |
| === nixternal wonders if Larry the Cable Guy is known in the UK | ||
| mdke | aha, http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=homeskillet | 11:55 |
| mdke | i'll take it as a compliment then | 11:55 |
| nixternal | hahahahah | 11:55 |
| mdke | --> bed | 11:55 |
| nixternal | omg | 11:55 |
| nixternal | g'nite | 11:55 |
| j1mc | "Tell homeskillet to fire up the bar-b-q, I'll be home in a minute. | 11:56 |
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