=== ubuntulog [i=ubuntulo@trider-g7.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Topic for #ubuntu-doc: Ubuntu Documentation Team http://doc.ubuntu.com or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam | Get involved! http://www.mdke.org/?p=67 | backlog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | SVN - https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos | Please observe the Ubuntu CoC @ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct | Next meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda === Topic (#ubuntu-doc): set by crimsun at Sat Dec 30 01:13:50 2006 === Knightlust [n=Dax@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has joined #ubuntu-doc === crimsun [n=crimsun@dargo.trilug.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Simon80 [n=Simon80@CPE00e098558963-CM000a7363ecf6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob [i=rob@freenode/staff/rob] has joined #ubuntu-doc === netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kubrick.freenode.net === zenrox [i=zenrox@pool-71-115-210-186.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Knightlust [n=Dax@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan_ [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Admiral_laptop [n=Freddy@adsl-68-72-99-127.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan_ is now known as bhuvan [09:01] mpt: well, those pages all do; I was thinking more of the question of how/whether to incorporate that material into our styleguide [09:01] mornin' [09:01] hehe, i see i'm not the online up nixternal :) [09:01] huh? [09:02] haha [09:02] only one you mean? [09:02] stinkin' broken gtk [09:03] i broke this server, its not passing information correctly anymore [09:03] i meant only one in our area. the other chicago channels are dead [09:13] morning all [09:14] nixternal: fancy approving the fridge story in the queue? [09:15] will do now [09:15] thanks [09:16] it's nice to have a bit of momentum behind docs again, way to go philbull [09:16] done [09:16] no doubt [09:16] seen a few new faces today as well [09:17] cool [09:31] nixternal: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/IndependentDocEfforts?action=show - any comments [09:32] i can't really think of a good response to the "i'm making money" justification [09:35] might also want to talk to the folks behing http://ubuntuguide.org [09:36] I think that's one of those listed [09:36] nope [09:37] yes, it is [09:38] which one? [09:38] fourth on the list [09:38] dur, my glasses need to be upped i think. can't read. [09:40] :) [09:42] the only thing I can think of about the money argument would be to link back to the original source [09:50] ok, gtg [09:50] cya === lionel [n=lionel@ip-149.net-89-3-208.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-doc === qhack [n=qhack@c-eedde055.1015-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dsas [n=dean@ubuntu/member/dsas] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan_ [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan__ [n=bhuvan@vpn2.sjc.collab.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan__ is now known as bhuvan === kwah [n=kwah@gate.wfw.wtb.tue.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:54] hi! simple question: is localized documentation https://help.ubuntu.com/ available online? [11:55] kwah: Each locoteam may localise it and store it on their own loco site. [11:56] e.g. the italian loco team have it on help.ubuntu-it.org [11:57] dsas, as far as I understand help.ubuntu.com contains the same doecumentation as in System - Help and support menu [11:57] kwah: That's right (except for the content under help.ubuntu.com/community) [11:57] So, this docmunentation is translated through synaptic [11:58] kwah: It's translated through Rosetta (launchpad) and installed as a "langpack" like other software. [11:58] and it used to be available via common web-site [11:58] why did it change? [11:59] sorry, of course through launchpad [11:59] kwah: The english HTML versions are then uploaded to help.ubuntu.com and other teams take a copy of their translated html versions and upload to their webspace. [11:59] kwah: As for why it changed, I don't know. Maybe part of the better-wiki-docs spec. [12:00] hm. how loco team can get this sort of documentation for upload on their own web-space? [12:00] i mean translated version of course [12:02] kwah: I think you have to build it yourself (this is pretty easy I think) [12:02] the only way I see right now is to build it myself [12:02] kwah: Maybe \https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation will help (see the "testing translation" part) [12:02] right [12:02] ok thanks. [12:03] dsas, I will check this out [12:03] btw, do you know about any efforts to structure wiki taking into account available translations? [12:04] here I mean community pages of help.ubuntu.com [12:04] kwah: I think current policy is that each loco team does this on their own wiki. [12:04] kwah: I am not very involved with the docteam though, mdke, nixternal and others know more than I. [12:05] dsas, thanks for your help and time. [12:05] kwah: no problem, hope I have helped. [12:06] yep. thanks. === tck [n=tck@192.122.223.215] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:06] nixternal: hi...i put the guide in /ubuntu-doc/generic on my machine here === Knightlust [n=Dax@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:35] New bug: #128495 in ubuntu-docs (main) "The Installation section of the Switching from Windows guide is out of date" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/128495 === Knightlust [n=Dax@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Moodle..."] === jjesse [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has joined #ubuntu-doc === kwah [n=kwah@gate.wfw.wtb.tue.nl] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] === ryanakca [n=ryan@ubuntu/member/ryanakca] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:11] holy smokes! that docuMENTORS post brought a ton of movement in no time! [05:11] i know its awesome [05:11] hoepfully we can get some peple to work on kubuntu docs out of them [05:12] hehe [05:12] no love man :) [05:12] i know, never is [05:12] hey, did I tell you...this weekend Phil and I had lunch? he is/was in town working at Fermi lab right up the street [05:12] oh that's cool [05:12] i'm in chicago again in sept i think [05:13] ya, he is way Kool :) [05:13] so am I! what a coincidence :) [05:13] the week of the 2nd === Knightlust [n=Dax@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tristanbob_ [n=tristan@oalug/member/tristanbob] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:10] mdke: did you see my comment on your blog? [06:10] just posted === bodhi_zazen [n=bodhizaz@stpete.helmednet.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tristanbob [n=tristan@oalug/member/tristanbob] has joined #ubuntu-doc === JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC] has joined #ubuntu-doc === glatzor [n=renate@p57AEFC86.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:45] mdke: sorry if I missed your reply - had to reboot [07:07] tristanbob: i don't think there was a reply in irc [07:11] thanks jjesse [07:12] np === jono [i=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-doc === DarkRaven [n=dvwyngaa@dsl-241-195-175.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:02] How did you advertise your mentoring program? [08:08] bdmurray: hadd a docteam meeting yesterday and then sent an email to ubuntu-doc mailing list [08:09] also mdke wrote a note on his blog [08:10] ah the power of the blog [08:11] ah the power of a planet :) === fijam [n=fijam@unaffiliated/fijam] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:20] Incidentally, how do you all run Gutsy? [08:20] On real hardware or in a virtual machine . . . === DarkRaven [n=dvwyngaa@dsl-244-223-219.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:29] Matthew, agree with your point, we should work together to create excellent documentation that can be found in one place. [08:29] If that is our goal, dont you think it is about time the Ubuntu Wiki provided a WSIWYG editing interface? I remember the first time I had to learn wiki style editing, and it is was a frustrating experience. This learning curve is an unnecessary barrier that stops many people from contributing to the wiki. [08:29] What do you guys think about that? [08:30] Any plans to add WSIWG functionality to the wiki? [08:30] tristanbob: i don't know how much control we as a documentation team have over what wiki engine is used [08:31] probably no control, but definitely influence [08:35] bdmurray: the fridge. Didn't blog yet [08:35] tristanbob: yes, I've read your comment [08:36] tristanbob: but I just got home from work so haven't had an opportunity to reply yet [08:36] mdke: np === DarkRaven [n=dvwyngaa@dsl-244-223-219.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:39] tristanbob: we've been pushing for an update to the wiki software for a long time but the sysadmins seem to be rather resistant. I will try and raise the subject again. But, I don't think the wysiwyg editor is a huge barrier to contribution for most people, because wiki markup is in fact incredibly simple [08:40] an update would be helpful for lots of reasons though [08:42] mdke: entering text is easy, but tables, formating text, is quite non-intuitive until you read the docs [08:43] mdke: entering text is easy, but tables, formatting text, is quite non-intuitive until you read the docs [08:47] tables can be tricky yes, but those are rarely used for documentation [08:47] not to the extent that is prohibitive for contribution anyway [09:20] wow, there has been an excellent response to the mentoring announcement [09:27] seriously. [09:38] my mailbox is stuffed. [09:39] that's a good problem to have :) [09:39] we need to track these and get people working now [09:46] yes, we're in danger of losing track already. Let's do a table === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:49] hola DocuMENTORS!! [09:50] Admiral_Chicago: is it kubuntu or xubuntu you are interested in again? === mdke is doing a table [09:50] hiya LaserJock [09:50] cool [09:50] Admiral_Chicago: does Xubuntu work [09:50] mdke: both. my focus is xubuntu but I know Kubuntu a lot better and would help there as well [09:50] thanks [09:51] jjesse: yes it works. [09:52] Admiral_Chicago: meant that Admiral_Chicag works on Xubuntu [09:52] so have we defined what it means to me a mentor? [09:52] like what is expected [09:53] jjesse: well jim and I have been meeting and learning docbook and making patches [09:53] we have a roadmap for when we want things done, its been tough though [09:53] my statement was in response to mdke [09:53] oh I see. :) [09:54] LaserJock: it really means just to give a commitment to give advice on the mailing list for your "student" and to prioritise reviewing patches [09:54] ok [09:54] I'll sign up for the packaging guide and Edubuntu [09:55] obviously, other people can still reply and review patches too if they wish [09:55] although I'd *like* to have more help with Edubuntu === mdke nods === LaserJock pokes nixternal [09:55] hehe [10:02] I'm glad we have so many people responding, the hard part will be getting them workin and sticking around [10:02] !nixternal [10:02] Oh no! The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived! He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too! [10:04] yes, we need to go from "Yippee! give me something to do!" to "I'm working on this specific doc/topic/bug" [10:04] hiya....which package needs attention, keeping in mind that I need to be mentored....I have downloaded the ubuntu-docs repo...? [10:05] that's right [10:05] phil has done a pretty good job of assigning some bugs already, I've added a table on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Mentoring to keep focused on who is doing what [10:05] we do need to have a list of "bite-sized" task for people to look at [10:06] mdke: yes, I'm guessing bugs might be a helpful thing here [10:06] DarkRaven: the best idea would be to have a look at the documentation and find something you are interested in. Alternatively, have a look through our list of bugs or tasks (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Tasks) [10:06] LaserJock: we have that list (see above link) [10:06] shot mdke....I'll have a look.... [10:06] shot? [10:06] thanks... [10:07] ah, I thought I smelled a cricketing term [10:07] mdke: yes, I was very happy to see that [10:07] my apologies...a term used here.... === Burgundavia [i=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tck [n=tck@A-105-131.cust.iol.ie] has joined #ubuntu-doc === kjcole [n=kjcole@ubuntu/member/kjcole] has joined #ubuntu-doc === kjcole [n=kjcole@ubuntu/member/kjcole] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Konversation] === j1mc [n=j1mc@157.199.21.56] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia_ [i=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:23] Does the doc team work on documentation for the development release only? === jono [i=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:26] bdmurray: what do you mean? [11:27] I mean there is going to be an update for Dapper and maybe it could ship with updated documentation. === theCore [n=alex@ubuntu/member/theCore] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:44] But I am not sure if much is going to change. [11:45] as for stable releases, updates are generally security updates, so there's not much to change in the docs. [11:46] yup [11:46] It is a point release though [11:46] we've already pushed updates to dapper in the past [11:46] same principles apply as do to other packages [11:46] the material is in branch/releasename in our svn repository [11:48] how do you get an SRU approved with Docs if they aren't security related? [11:48] unless you are backporting them? [11:49] I thought there was an exception made for the documentation. [11:49] Meaning that it doesn't need to go through exactly the same procedure. [11:50] I don't know..tis why I was asking [11:50] it was mentioned on the list a few months ago... [11:51] nixternal: it's not easy to get sru approval but can be done for serious bugs [11:51] speaking of lists, where is Burger when you need him? [11:51] at the moment we don't have a different policy for documentation, although it's been discussed [11:51] mdke: rock on then...I wonder how much stuff has changed that a point release is necessary for docs? [11:52] FWIW, I agree with this; if you have updates which should really go [11:52] in, the procedure shouldn't block you from doing that. [11:52] I can't even remember Dapper :) [11:52] nixternal: I can't think of anything off-hand, but we can fix bugs if other people can :) [11:52] ^- That is what Tollef the Release Manager said. [11:52] woohoo! [11:52] now that is what I wanted to do during the Dapper days, and you used to get mad at me for changing strings :) [11:52] muhehehe! [11:52] svn revert was my best friend back then [11:52] but they need to be serious, because it's not worth it otherwise [11:53] ya [11:53] I think if it is a string that could cause more bug reports it is worth changing. [11:53] and i can't think of any that are serious in Kubuntu off-hand w/o going through the old bug logs [11:53] we don't have much contribution, and rolling packages for a sru is quite a large effort [11:53] --> bed [11:53] g'nite homeskillet! [11:53] ;) [11:54] --> dictionary [11:54] hahaha [11:54] nixternal: did you know there are vmware images available for dapper? [11:54] if you find it, I would drop dead right here [11:54] bdmurray: and breezy, and hoary, and even debian potato :) [11:54] I was just looking at all of the vmware images on the vmware site...it was rather interesting to say the least [11:54] hmm. Skillet - a cylindrical serving vessel of the late 17th and early 18th centuries, having a hinged lid, a handle, and, sometimes, feet. [11:55] hahahah [11:55] do you have feet? [11:55] homeskillet was Larry the Cable Guy trying to be a gangster I think === nixternal wonders if Larry the Cable Guy is known in the UK [11:55] aha, http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=homeskillet [11:55] i'll take it as a compliment then [11:55] hahahahah [11:55] --> bed [11:55] omg [11:55] g'nite [11:56] "Tell homeskillet to fire up the bar-b-q, I'll be home in a minute.