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| LaserJock | mdke: do you know if there has been any progress on the wiki.ubuntu.com licensing? | 12:20 |
|---|---|---|
| nixternal | LaserJock: we are going to license it under the GPLv3 | 12:26 |
| robotgeek | !topic | 12:26 |
| ubotu | Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic | 12:26 |
| nixternal | now go back into hibernation! :) | 12:26 |
| LaserJock | nixternal: are you serious!?! | 12:26 |
| nixternal | no | 12:26 |
| LaserJock | phew | 12:26 |
| robotgeek | lol | 12:26 |
| nixternal | figured you would have caught that one :) | 12:26 |
| LaserJock | I was about to freak | 12:26 |
| nixternal | phew? are you out of your mind! | 12:26 |
| nixternal | haha | 12:26 |
| nixternal | GPL > CC-by-garbage any day of the week! | 12:27 |
| LaserJock | sure, expect no docs that I'm aware of use GPLV3 yet | 12:27 |
| LaserJock | *except | 12:27 |
| crimsun | bad, public dom it. | 12:27 |
| nixternal | that CC stuff has gotten out of hand...there is like CC-by-A-B-C-D-E-F... | 12:27 |
| robotgeek | is there a list of tasks pending for Kubuntu ? | 12:27 |
| crimsun | I'll be sure to license all help for alsa under gplv3 | 12:27 |
| LaserJock | nixternal: bah, there is not, it's really simple | 12:27 |
| nixternal | robotgeek: not really, just work on whatever you feel like | 12:27 |
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| nixternal | crimsun: you rock! | 12:28 |
| LaserJock | crimsun: docs *we* would use ;-) | 12:28 |
| nixternal | ouch | 12:28 |
| robotgeek | nixternal: just wanted to make sure that i did not duplicate work | 12:28 |
| crimsun | that's true. That's why I left Ubuntu anyhow. | 12:28 |
| nixternal | that was a low blow | 12:28 |
| nixternal | robotgeek: nah, we are flying by the seat of our pants as usual | 12:28 |
| LaserJock | nixternal: who in the doc team is going to use alsa docs? | 12:28 |
| nixternal | jjesse is working on the add-applications stuff, and I am working on the index, other than that, everything else is open | 12:28 |
| === nixternal is | ||
| jjesse | correct | 12:29 |
| LaserJock | crimsun: cause nobody looks after alsa? | 12:29 |
| nixternal | jjesse: you see the new index btw? | 12:29 |
| jjesse | not yet | 12:29 |
| crimsun | no, because I don't have a pink pony. | 12:29 |
| nixternal | crimsun: can I join you in leaving too? maybe we can meet up on Debian Lane :) | 12:29 |
| robotgeek | when is string freeze? | 12:29 |
| nixternal | 2 months | 12:29 |
| nixternal | less than 2 months | 12:29 |
| crimsun | GutsyReleaseSchedule | 12:29 |
| LaserJock | crimsun: but you've got 2 Golden ones I think :-) | 12:29 |
| robotgeek | crimsun: ty! | 12:29 |
| LaserJock | I'm concerned about the wiki licensing because of the packaging guide | 12:32 |
| nixternal | ooh, didn't even think about that | 12:32 |
| LaserJock | with the new doc effort going on in MOTU, there's lots of good material | 12:32 |
| nixternal | LaserJock: isn't the PG dual licensed? | 12:33 |
| LaserJock | no | 12:33 |
| LaserJock | just GPL | 12:33 |
| nixternal | oh, I thought it was | 12:33 |
| nixternal | dual license the PG for the time being until the wiki license gets straightened out | 12:33 |
| LaserJock | I can't exactly | 12:33 |
| LaserJock | well, I'm not sure if I can | 12:34 |
| nixternal | you can if you get the contributors say so on it | 12:34 |
| LaserJock | I have an amount of Debian docs in there | 12:34 |
| nixternal | oh ya | 12:34 |
| LaserJock | I'm not sure if it would count as fair use or not | 12:34 |
| nixternal | hrmm, well don't they allow double licensing? | 12:34 |
| LaserJock | I use Debian Policy | 12:34 |
| nixternal | ya | 12:34 |
| nixternal | I don't blame you :) | 12:34 |
| crimsun | err, actual Debian docs or references to Debian docs? | 12:34 |
| LaserJock | actual Debian Policy material | 12:34 |
| LaserJock | well, or at least close enough | 12:35 |
| crimsun | werbatim? | 12:35 |
| crimsun | verbatim , even | 12:35 |
| LaserJock | well, I'd have to go back and look | 12:35 |
| LaserJock | it's not exactly verbatim I don't think | 12:35 |
| crimsun | if it's not verbatim,then at the very least you can further parphrase and provide an in-place URL | 12:35 |
| crimsun | paraphrase | 12:35 |
| LaserJock | Maybe what should be done is to quote the Debian Policy where needed | 12:36 |
| LaserJock | then it's just a reference, not a derivative work, right? | 12:36 |
| crimsun | right, what I said. | 12:36 |
| LaserJock | right | 12:36 |
| nixternal | how difficult would it be to dual license the Kubuntu docs? we change stuff from KDE, and I need to pull some KDE documentation and integrate it with Kubuntu documentation..for KDE we use GFDL | 12:36 |
| nixternal | this dual licensing stuff is nuts | 12:36 |
| LaserJock | I don't think you can just dual license stuff | 12:37 |
| nixternal | ya...we had it dual licensed once | 12:37 |
| LaserJock | if it's a derivative work then you have to ask KDE if its ok | 12:37 |
| LaserJock | because you are in essence relicensing their work | 12:37 |
| nixternal | true | 12:38 |
| nixternal | unless we do like crimsun said and paraphrase..will that work? | 12:38 |
| LaserJock | well, this is something *I'm* not clear on at all | 12:38 |
| LaserJock | what constitutes a derivative work? | 12:38 |
| LaserJock | I assume that if you quote or fall under "fair use" a link works without it being a derivative work | 12:39 |
| nixternal | what was the main reason for switching to CC-by-SA for our docs? | 12:42 |
| nixternal | was it for the book? | 12:42 |
| LaserJock | no | 12:42 |
| LaserJock | well, I'm sure that's part of it | 12:42 |
| LaserJock | you mean switching from GFDL/CC-by-SA to just CC-by-SA? | 12:42 |
| nixternal | ya, that sucks for Kubuntu seeing we only have 1 chapter in the book | 12:43 |
| nixternal | yes | 12:43 |
| LaserJock | it's basically, IMO, because dual licensing sucks for getting material | 12:43 |
| LaserJock | the forums are CC-by-SA | 12:43 |
| LaserJock | the book is | 12:43 |
| nixternal | help.ubuntu.com/community is as well | 12:44 |
| LaserJock | yes | 12:44 |
| LaserJock | the problem with the dual licensing was basically that we weren't compatible with anybody | 12:44 |
| nixternal | ya, I now understand that after thinking a whole 2 seconds about it | 12:44 |
| LaserJock | doc licensing really stinks, especially as I haven't seen a clear "leader" like GPL is for software | 12:45 |
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| nixternal | well GFDL is clear, but people made a stink about invariant sections | 12:46 |
| nixternal | you shouldn't have invariant sections in documentation honestly | 12:46 |
| LaserJock | why not? | 12:46 |
| LaserJock | it makes perfect sense to me | 12:46 |
| nixternal | having stuff that says something like "I think or I believe that Gnome shouldn't or should...." | 12:47 |
| nixternal | that makes a section invariant correct? | 12:47 |
| nixternal | you shouldn't have opinions in official/system documentation | 12:47 |
| LaserJock | no | 12:47 |
| LaserJock | an invariant section can *only* be in secondary matter | 12:48 |
| nixternal | i.e. the index? | 12:48 |
| LaserJock | yes | 12:48 |
| LaserJock | basically it is for the license of the doc | 12:48 |
| LaserJock | as you shouldn't be able to change the license right? | 12:48 |
| nixternal | well I read it as the "opinions" of the author or what not when going through the Debian review of the GFDL | 12:49 |
| LaserJock | no, I actually read the GFDL | 12:50 |
| nixternal | I have too, and I will be honest, I was confused a bit by the invariant section part | 12:50 |
| LaserJock | "The "Invariant Sections" are certain Secondary Sections whose titles are designated" | 12:51 |
| LaserJock | so it has to be a secondary section | 12:51 |
| LaserJock | ""Secondary Section" is a named appendix or a front-matter section of the Document" | 12:52 |
| nixternal | hrmm..what happens if you don't add an "invariant section"? | 12:52 |
| nixternal | does it then make it free in Debian's eyes? | 12:52 |
| LaserJock | yes | 12:52 |
| LaserJock | but RMS likes to make the License section of a doc Invariant | 12:53 |
| LaserJock | so like Debian took out all the emacs documentation and put it in non-free | 12:53 |
| nixternal | I was told by Peter Brown this is supposed to change for GFDLv3..how true that is I don't know | 12:54 |
| LaserJock | well, I understand Debian's position, I just think it's kinda stupid | 12:54 |
| nixternal | ditto | 12:56 |
| LaserJock | I thought you could make anything invariant, and that did sound pretty bad | 12:57 |
| nixternal | actually, I did to | 12:57 |
| LaserJock | but if you read the details of what a secondary section is it's pretty restriced | 12:58 |
| nixternal | the Attribution condition for the CC-by-SA is what Debian doesn't view as free right? | 12:58 |
| LaserJock | hmm, I'm not really sure | 12:58 |
| LaserJock | I think it's mainly some wording | 12:58 |
| LaserJock | not really the concept | 12:58 |
| nixternal | I GET IT NOW | 01:20 |
| LaserJock | oh? | 01:21 |
| nixternal | dual licensing doesn't help you with using others work, it only helps downstream in a way...so whoever takes my work, can choose which license they wish to use | 01:21 |
| LaserJock | exactly | 01:21 |
| nixternal | OK, now it makes better sense now | 01:21 |
| nixternal | exactly? why couldn't you stop me from looking like an idiot sooner? :) | 01:21 |
| LaserJock | so I think initially it was "we'll be nice and let other people do what they want with the Ubuntu docs, like derivs" | 01:21 |
| nixternal | ya | 01:22 |
| nixternal | which I think is kind of nice | 01:22 |
| LaserJock | but now it's like "oh, we'd like to pull material from X and Y, oh darn, our license doesn't work well for that" | 01:22 |
| nixternal | see, for Kubuntu docs, our main source of course (Dr. Seuss) is KDE which is GFDL | 01:23 |
| nixternal | so in all honestly, it is kind of silly for us to use CC-by-SA...it would be nice to dual license the wiki truthfully | 01:23 |
| nixternal | there is quite a bit of documentation on h.u.c/community that was pulled from GPL/GFDL sources | 01:24 |
| nixternal | hehe, Reno 911 movie is nuts | 01:24 |
| nixternal | you wanna see a great movie, Hot Fuzz...great British humor in it | 01:25 |
| LaserJock | heh | 01:25 |
| nixternal | Hello nixternal, | 01:34 |
| nixternal | We at Ubuntu Forums would like to wish you a happy birthday today! | 01:34 |
| nixternal | heh, it must be midnight where ever that server is | 01:34 |
| nixternal | I had forgotten about that | 01:35 |
| LaserJock | it's your BIRTHDAY? | 01:37 |
| nixternal | tomorrow for us | 01:38 |
| LaserJock | wow, you must be ancient by now ;-) | 01:39 |
| nixternal | 17 | 01:39 |
| === LaserJock chokes on his water | ||
| nixternal | lol | 01:41 |
| crimsun | yous guys are fogeys. | 01:45 |
| nixternal | hah | 01:46 |
| LaserJock | crimsun: you're still older than me | 01:49 |
| LaserJock | and I'm still the youngest person in my lab, except for the summer undergrad guy | 01:49 |
| LaserJock | but I feel ancient :/ | 01:50 |
| crimsun | I'm younger than nixternal. | 01:50 |
| crimsun | somewhere between 10 and 16. | 01:50 |
| nixternal | heh | 01:51 |
| LaserJock | and they let you work in D.C.? | 01:55 |
| LaserJock | surely they have child-labor laws | 01:56 |
| crimsun | I _write_ the child labour laws. I'm obviously exempt. | 01:56 |
| LaserJock | ahhhh | 01:56 |
| LaserJock | crimsun: so are you going to have any time for Debian/other FLOSS even? | 01:58 |
| crimsun | I guess that depends how badly I want to drive myself to an early grave. | 02:01 |
| LaserJock | understandable | 02:02 |
| crimsun | unlike you fogeys, I have to get rest to grow strong, healthy bones. | 02:03 |
| nixternal | haha | 02:03 |
| LaserJock | crimsun: oh geeze, you seem to sleep the least of any person I know | 02:04 |
| LaserJock | I've got to get 8hrs/day | 02:04 |
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| LaserJock | hi jjesse | 03:18 |
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| ubotu | New bug: #129032 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Switching guide only covers Internet Explorer favorites" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129032 | 01:31 |
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| mdke | ok, surely the largest commit ever | 02:19 |
| mdke | let's see how long it takes | 02:19 |
| mdke | no, disappointingly fast | 02:25 |
| fijam | hello | 02:29 |
| fijam | where do I find &legalnotice? | 02:29 |
| mdke | fijam: trunk/libs/cdo-C.ent | 02:35 |
| fijam | thanks. | 02:35 |
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| topaspv | hi! a short question: how can i include a link to a picture without having the picture itself included in the wiki page? | 02:59 |
| mdke | topaspv: I'm not sure there is a good way to do it (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HelpOnActions/AttachFile). You'll probably have to use the "get" link which you see under the attachments page | 03:07 |
| topaspv | ok, i'll have a try | 03:08 |
| topaspv | no difference. | 03:17 |
| mdke | hmm? | 03:23 |
| mdke | topaspv: what's the page, and where is your link? | 03:23 |
| topaspv | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SimplyStunningLinuxDesktop | 03:23 |
| mdke | you tried [link text] ? | 03:24 |
| topaspv | no | 03:24 |
| topaspv | i'll do | 03:24 |
| mdke | ok | 03:24 |
| topaspv | no, doesn't make a difference | 03:25 |
| mdke | lemme try | 03:27 |
| mdke | topaspv: can you come out of the page? | 03:27 |
| topaspv | out of the page? | 03:28 |
| mdke | stop editing | 03:28 |
| topaspv | done | 03:28 |
| mdke | no, you still have a lock on it | 03:28 |
| mdke | save or cancel | 03:28 |
| topaspv | done | 03:29 |
| mdke | topaspv: ok, it works now. have a look at the format used | 03:30 |
| topaspv | looks pretty simple | 03:30 |
| topaspv | thanks :) | 03:30 |
| topaspv | i'm gonna ask myself why i didn't have this idea myself.. | 03:31 |
| mdke | np | 03:31 |
| topaspv | bye | 03:32 |
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| jjesse | wow i'm aamazed at how active the mailing list has become | 06:03 |
| jjesse | that's awesome | 06:03 |
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| techII | ok, does some type of self help "wizard" exist? | 10:29 |
| mpt | techII, M-x doctor? | 11:27 |
| mpt | or perhaps you could be more specific? | 11:27 |
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