=== LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:20] mdke: do you know if there has been any progress on the wiki.ubuntu.com licensing? [12:26] LaserJock: we are going to license it under the GPLv3 [12:26] !topic [12:26] Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic [12:26] now go back into hibernation! :) [12:26] nixternal: are you serious!?! [12:26] no [12:26] phew [12:26] lol [12:26] figured you would have caught that one :) [12:26] I was about to freak [12:26] phew? are you out of your mind! [12:26] haha [12:27] GPL > CC-by-garbage any day of the week! [12:27] sure, expect no docs that I'm aware of use GPLV3 yet [12:27] *except [12:27] bad, public dom it. [12:27] that CC stuff has gotten out of hand...there is like CC-by-A-B-C-D-E-F... [12:27] is there a list of tasks pending for Kubuntu ? [12:27] I'll be sure to license all help for alsa under gplv3 [12:27] nixternal: bah, there is not, it's really simple [12:27] robotgeek: not really, just work on whatever you feel like === JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:28] crimsun: you rock! [12:28] crimsun: docs *we* would use ;-) [12:28] ouch [12:28] nixternal: just wanted to make sure that i did not duplicate work [12:28] that's true. That's why I left Ubuntu anyhow. [12:28] that was a low blow [12:28] robotgeek: nah, we are flying by the seat of our pants as usual [12:28] nixternal: who in the doc team is going to use alsa docs? [12:28] jjesse is working on the add-applications stuff, and I am working on the index, other than that, everything else is open === nixternal is [12:29] correct [12:29] crimsun: cause nobody looks after alsa? [12:29] jjesse: you see the new index btw? [12:29] not yet [12:29] no, because I don't have a pink pony. [12:29] crimsun: can I join you in leaving too? maybe we can meet up on Debian Lane :) [12:29] when is string freeze? [12:29] 2 months [12:29] less than 2 months [12:29] GutsyReleaseSchedule [12:29] crimsun: but you've got 2 Golden ones I think :-) [12:29] crimsun: ty! [12:32] I'm concerned about the wiki licensing because of the packaging guide [12:32] ooh, didn't even think about that [12:32] with the new doc effort going on in MOTU, there's lots of good material [12:33] LaserJock: isn't the PG dual licensed? [12:33] no [12:33] just GPL [12:33] oh, I thought it was [12:33] dual license the PG for the time being until the wiki license gets straightened out [12:33] I can't exactly [12:34] well, I'm not sure if I can [12:34] you can if you get the contributors say so on it [12:34] I have an amount of Debian docs in there [12:34] oh ya [12:34] I'm not sure if it would count as fair use or not [12:34] hrmm, well don't they allow double licensing? [12:34] I use Debian Policy [12:34] ya [12:34] I don't blame you :) [12:34] err, actual Debian docs or references to Debian docs? [12:34] actual Debian Policy material [12:35] well, or at least close enough [12:35] werbatim? [12:35] verbatim , even [12:35] well, I'd have to go back and look [12:35] it's not exactly verbatim I don't think [12:35] if it's not verbatim,then at the very least you can further parphrase and provide an in-place URL [12:35] paraphrase [12:36] Maybe what should be done is to quote the Debian Policy where needed [12:36] then it's just a reference, not a derivative work, right? [12:36] right, what I said. [12:36] right [12:36] how difficult would it be to dual license the Kubuntu docs? we change stuff from KDE, and I need to pull some KDE documentation and integrate it with Kubuntu documentation..for KDE we use GFDL [12:36] this dual licensing stuff is nuts [12:37] I don't think you can just dual license stuff [12:37] ya...we had it dual licensed once [12:37] if it's a derivative work then you have to ask KDE if its ok [12:37] because you are in essence relicensing their work [12:38] true [12:38] unless we do like crimsun said and paraphrase..will that work? [12:38] well, this is something *I'm* not clear on at all [12:38] what constitutes a derivative work? [12:39] I assume that if you quote or fall under "fair use" a link works without it being a derivative work [12:42] what was the main reason for switching to CC-by-SA for our docs? [12:42] was it for the book? [12:42] no [12:42] well, I'm sure that's part of it [12:42] you mean switching from GFDL/CC-by-SA to just CC-by-SA? [12:43] ya, that sucks for Kubuntu seeing we only have 1 chapter in the book [12:43] yes [12:43] it's basically, IMO, because dual licensing sucks for getting material [12:43] the forums are CC-by-SA [12:43] the book is [12:44] help.ubuntu.com/community is as well [12:44] yes [12:44] the problem with the dual licensing was basically that we weren't compatible with anybody [12:44] ya, I now understand that after thinking a whole 2 seconds about it [12:45] doc licensing really stinks, especially as I haven't seen a clear "leader" like GPL is for software === Marvins_Dog_ [n=nick@24-56-181-51.co.warpdriveonline.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:46] well GFDL is clear, but people made a stink about invariant sections [12:46] you shouldn't have invariant sections in documentation honestly [12:46] why not? [12:46] it makes perfect sense to me [12:47] having stuff that says something like "I think or I believe that Gnome shouldn't or should...." [12:47] that makes a section invariant correct? [12:47] you shouldn't have opinions in official/system documentation [12:47] no [12:48] an invariant section can *only* be in secondary matter [12:48] i.e. the index? [12:48] yes [12:48] basically it is for the license of the doc [12:48] as you shouldn't be able to change the license right? [12:49] well I read it as the "opinions" of the author or what not when going through the Debian review of the GFDL [12:50] no, I actually read the GFDL [12:50] I have too, and I will be honest, I was confused a bit by the invariant section part [12:51] "The "Invariant Sections" are certain Secondary Sections whose titles are designated" [12:51] so it has to be a secondary section [12:52] ""Secondary Section" is a named appendix or a front-matter section of the Document" [12:52] hrmm..what happens if you don't add an "invariant section"? [12:52] does it then make it free in Debian's eyes? [12:52] yes [12:53] but RMS likes to make the License section of a doc Invariant [12:53] so like Debian took out all the emacs documentation and put it in non-free [12:54] I was told by Peter Brown this is supposed to change for GFDLv3..how true that is I don't know [12:54] well, I understand Debian's position, I just think it's kinda stupid [12:56] ditto [12:57] I thought you could make anything invariant, and that did sound pretty bad [12:57] actually, I did to [12:58] but if you read the details of what a secondary section is it's pretty restriced [12:58] the Attribution condition for the CC-by-SA is what Debian doesn't view as free right? [12:58] hmm, I'm not really sure [12:58] I think it's mainly some wording [12:58] not really the concept [01:20] I GET IT NOW [01:21] oh? [01:21] dual licensing doesn't help you with using others work, it only helps downstream in a way...so whoever takes my work, can choose which license they wish to use [01:21] exactly [01:21] OK, now it makes better sense now [01:21] exactly? why couldn't you stop me from looking like an idiot sooner? :) [01:21] so I think initially it was "we'll be nice and let other people do what they want with the Ubuntu docs, like derivs" [01:22] ya [01:22] which I think is kind of nice [01:22] but now it's like "oh, we'd like to pull material from X and Y, oh darn, our license doesn't work well for that" [01:23] see, for Kubuntu docs, our main source of course (Dr. Seuss) is KDE which is GFDL [01:23] so in all honestly, it is kind of silly for us to use CC-by-SA...it would be nice to dual license the wiki truthfully [01:24] there is quite a bit of documentation on h.u.c/community that was pulled from GPL/GFDL sources [01:24] hehe, Reno 911 movie is nuts [01:25] you wanna see a great movie, Hot Fuzz...great British humor in it [01:25] heh [01:34] Hello nixternal, [01:34] We at Ubuntu Forums would like to wish you a happy birthday today! [01:34] heh, it must be midnight where ever that server is [01:35] I had forgotten about that [01:37] it's your BIRTHDAY? [01:38] tomorrow for us [01:39] wow, you must be ancient by now ;-) [01:39] 17 === LaserJock chokes on his water [01:41] lol [01:45] yous guys are fogeys. [01:46] hah [01:49] crimsun: you're still older than me [01:49] and I'm still the youngest person in my lab, except for the summer undergrad guy [01:50] but I feel ancient :/ [01:50] I'm younger than nixternal. [01:50] somewhere between 10 and 16. [01:51] heh [01:55] and they let you work in D.C.? [01:56] surely they have child-labor laws [01:56] I _write_ the child labour laws. I'm obviously exempt. [01:56] ahhhh [01:58] crimsun: so are you going to have any time for Debian/other FLOSS even? [02:01] I guess that depends how badly I want to drive myself to an early grave. [02:02] understandable [02:03] unlike you fogeys, I have to get rest to grow strong, healthy bones. [02:03] haha [02:04] crimsun: oh geeze, you seem to sleep the least of any person I know [02:04] I've got to get 8hrs/day === merriam__ [n=merriam@82-133-115-120.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@adsl-76-212-86-144.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:18] hi jjesse === tck [n=tck@213-202-148-143.bas502.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@adsl-76-212-86-144.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === j1mc [n=jim@adsl-75-22-17-254.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Knightlust [n=umaming@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Knightlust [n=umaming@203.87.200.214] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Admiral_laptop [n=Freddy@adsl-68-72-99-86.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === posingaspopular [n=Freddy@adsl-68-72-99-86.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === Admiral_laptop [n=Freddy@adsl-68-72-99-86.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-136-247.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === fijam [n=fijam@unaffiliated/fijam] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Admiral_Chicago [n=FreddyM@adsl-68-72-99-86.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tck [n=tck@213-202-148-143.bas502.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:31] New bug: #129032 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Switching guide only covers Internet Explorer favorites" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129032 === pimanx [n=pimanx@port134.ds1-gjp.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:19] ok, surely the largest commit ever [02:19] let's see how long it takes [02:25] no, disappointingly fast [02:29] hello [02:29] where do I find &legalnotice? [02:35] fijam: trunk/libs/cdo-C.ent [02:35] thanks. === topaspv [n=topaspv@unaffiliated/topaspv] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:59] hi! a short question: how can i include a link to a picture without having the picture itself included in the wiki page? [03:07] topaspv: I'm not sure there is a good way to do it (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HelpOnActions/AttachFile). You'll probably have to use the "get" link which you see under the attachments page [03:08] ok, i'll have a try [03:17] no difference. [03:23] hmm? [03:23] topaspv: what's the page, and where is your link? [03:23] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SimplyStunningLinuxDesktop [03:24] you tried [link text] ? [03:24] no [03:24] i'll do [03:24] ok [03:25] no, doesn't make a difference [03:27] lemme try [03:27] topaspv: can you come out of the page? [03:28] out of the page? [03:28] stop editing [03:28] done [03:28] no, you still have a lock on it [03:28] save or cancel [03:29] done [03:30] topaspv: ok, it works now. have a look at the format used [03:30] looks pretty simple [03:30] thanks :) [03:31] i'm gonna ask myself why i didn't have this idea myself.. [03:31] np [03:32] bye === topaspv [n=topaspv@unaffiliated/topaspv] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] === dsas [n=dean@ubuntu/member/dsas] has joined #ubuntu-doc === DarkRaven [n=dvwyngaa@dsl-241-203-139.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@adsl-76-212-56-86.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@adsl-76-212-56-86.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:03] wow i'm aamazed at how active the mailing list has become [06:03] that's awesome === DarkRaven [n=dvwyngaa@dsl-243-78-87.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [i=zenrox@pool-71-115-210-186.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ptn107 [n=phil@68.63.160.79] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tck [n=tck@213-202-148-143.bas502.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === techII [n=user@pool-72-88-126-125.bflony.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:29] ok, does some type of self help "wizard" exist? [11:27] techII, M-x doctor? [11:27] or perhaps you could be more specific? === techII [n=user@pool-72-88-126-125.bflony.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@adsl-76-212-56-86.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc