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mdkemorning all08:46
Burgundaviahey mdke08:51
mdkempt: so I've been thinking about how we can go about using this gnome-user-docs vcs-import. Is the best approach to create a branch of it and store it at ~ubuntu-docs? Would we store the packaging for the Ubuntu package in the same branch, or a separate one (given that we'll need to merge changes from Debian for that)?08:53
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ubotuNew bug: #129189 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Instant Messaging Documentation: News Readers need more details" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12918910:30
mptmdke, the answer to your first question is probably "yes", but for your second question you'd need to ask someone with more (i.e. non-zero) experience in packaging-with-Bazaar10:53
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SpadsSo how do you folks generate PDFs?  I see lots of rules in the Makefiles using "fop", but can't find it in Ubuntu.06:59
CIA-14Ubuntu Documentation: jjesse * r4196 common/authors/jonathan-jesse.xml: testing svn passsword07:03
jjessewahoo got my password finaly reset07:03
Spadsah, that was me.07:03
Spadswas CIA-14 not working for a while?07:04
jjessemust not have been07:04
Spadsbecause I think I just fixed that as well07:04
jjessecool congrats07:04
Spadsand sped up svn commits07:04
Spadsalthough you guys really should use bzr :)07:04
jjessei keep telling them ;)07:04
Spadsfight the good fight!07:04
Spadsanyway, sorry that took so long07:05
jjesseno problerms07:05
Spadsso can you tell me how you guys build PDFs?07:05
j1mcjjesse: Admiral_Chicago and I were just talking about bzr on saturday.  seems like it's on a number of people's minds.07:05
jjesseSpads: I've never used it to buidl pdfs07:06
jjesseafk confrence call07:06
nixternalCIA is working again07:17
nixternaljjesse: was you commit pretty fast?07:17
nixternalSpads: you rock!07:18
nixternalSpads: we use Apache FOP07:18
Spadsnixternal: what package is that in?07:18
nixternalnone that I know of...I had to build it from tarball07:18
nixternalI have been using a different method of late for KDE 4 documentation07:19
Spadsis that method in the docteam svn?07:19
nixternaldblatex is good as well..that is what we use for KDE07:19
nixternaltruthfully I don't like FOP...it is a real pita07:19
nixternaland dblatex is in the repos07:20
SpadsI'll take a look07:23
Spadsnixternal: where would I see the kde 4 docs using dblatex?07:24
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nixternalyou would have to pull them from the KDE SVN07:30
Spadsnixternal: got a URL?07:30
nixternalthey are all over the place... but you can see http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdebase/doc as there is some documentation in there07:31
nixternalmost of which hasn't really been updated just yet07:31
jjessenixternal: yes my commit was pretty quick07:42
Spadsnixternal: do you have an example of a URL I can just svn get and build to see a dblatex invocation happen?07:42
nixternalSpads: you can try our svn for dblatex... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository07:43
Spadsah, I thought you said that was still using fop07:45
nixternalwell, you can use dblatex for any document that is DocBook/XML07:46
Spadsah okay, I'll just give it a try then07:47
Spadsthe fop stuff seems to have xsl though, and I assume dblatex doesn't use that does it07:47
Spadsso do you have to use LaTeX styles to affect the PDF output?07:48
nixternalit can if you tell it to07:48
Spadsoh nice07:48
Spadsbasically I was hoping to find a Makefile where I could see what sort of options one passes for a production doc tree like this07:48
nixternalwe do however have latex scripts we use for KDE docs07:49
nixternalI am not 100% familiar with it totally07:49
nixternalya, there are so many options, with dblatex and fop...it is crazy07:49
nixternalbeen a while since I last used FOP...probably the Edgy cycle while mdke was on vacation I think07:50
Spadsheh, maybe I'll poke mdke07:51
nixternalhe definitely knows fop07:52
jjessedo the topic based help docs build into pdf?07:53
nixternalI am sure they would if we added the stuff to the makefile07:53
nixternalKHC is going to be pretty cool in KDE 4...say you are looking at some help, and you would like to print it out, you can click a button and have it save it as a PDF to print out07:54
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F4EYEgood evening08:52
jjessegood afternoon :)08:52
F4EYE8H52 PM in France :)08:52
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Admiral_Chicagojjesse: when is the book coming out? soon no?09:08
jjessebook is out already isn't it?09:08
jjessei have my copy :)09:09
jjesseyou can order it on amazon right now09:09
mdkempt: thanks. I'm going to ask dholbach when he gets back from vacation, I think09:10
jjessemdke: i got my svn password finally straightened out09:14
jjesseso i can commit again09:14
Admiral_Chicagoah okay. thanks09:16
Admiral_Chicagoso it is out...09:17
jjesseyeah i only got two copies this time09:25
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mdkejjesse: yay10:07
nixternalmdke: any bets on how long it takes him to misplace it again? :)10:24
mdkenixternal: I had just started typing that... I'll bet 3 days10:24
nixternalwow, you are generous with 310:24
mdkeyou going lower?10:24
nixternaljjesse: ^^ yes we are picking on you :)10:24
nixternalI was going to say sometime tomorrow we will get the "Lets move Doc SVN to BZR" email10:25
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mdkeaw man, the download feedback for bzr is still terrible10:56
j1mcthe download feedback?  what do you mean?10:58
mdkethe status progress information when checking out10:59
nixternalyes it is11:00
nixternalit is like it doesn't even match what is really going on11:00
nixternaljust has the phase 1/4 and updates when it feels like it11:00
mdkeit's a bit like the Windows one11:02
nixternalwe just had a BZR developer give a talk at a recent LUG event, and he didn't sound to sure of himself when questioned...it kind of turned me off a bit11:03
mdkereally? Who was it?11:03
nixternalJohn something11:03
nixternalhe is from Chicago11:03
nixternalAdmiral_Chicago or j1mc: do you remember his name?11:04
mdkeJohn A Meinel?11:04
j1mcyes, that's him11:04
mdkeI thought he was one of the lead guys11:04
mdkehe doesn't have a canonical email address on his lp account though, I don't think he works there11:05
j1mcnixternal: i thought he gave a good talk - answered our questions well . . . even ones about the speed of bzr, which has been a somewhat big issue.11:05
nixternalya, I wasn't all to happy about the response to speed11:05
nixternalmdke: he does...he gave us a business card and emails the chicago team's ml with it11:06
j1mche does work for canonical, though.11:06
mdkeoh, ok11:06
nixternaland he hacks from a iBook :)11:07
j1mc;-)  don't a lot of devs work from the new intel macs so they can see how their software works on linux, windows, and os x?11:08
nixternalI would too, but I can't afford one of them beasts11:09
mdkedamn progress bar hasn't moved for 10 minutes11:11
nixternalbzr co whatever && go wait for days11:12
mdkeit got up to about 50% then finished11:18
nixternalhaha, that is nuts11:20
nixternalI think I can seriously check out trunk/KDE in SVN before you could Ubuntu docs in BZR11:20
mdkeok, let's try pushing it back to Launchpad11:20
nixternaland we are talking over a gig and then some11:21
nixternalpushing it is actually not to bad11:21
mdkehere we go, it starts on about 30% immediately then goes really slowly11:22
nixternalwhat are you pushing?11:22
mdkenixternal: gnome-user-docs11:25
nixternalthat will take you 2 months minimum for pushing one xml file :)11:25
mdkestill on 30%11:27
nixternalhaha, wow11:27
mdkeit's already appearing here though, quite cool - https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc/gnome-user-docs/ubuntu-changes11:28
j1mc:-/  that is kind of sad.  at least the bzr devs know that speed is a problem.11:28
nixternalthat is good they have gotten the updates to appear on the web quicker than 15 minutes like before11:29
mdkeit's not the speed that bothers me, it's the poor feedback11:29
j1mcthere's no "version 2344 of ubuntu docs checked out" message?11:30
mdkethat's not what I want, I want a proper progress message while it's downloading/uploading11:31
mdkeit's still on 30%11:31
nixternalheh, that doesn't sound right at all11:33
mdkewell, maybe 35%11:33
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ubotuNew bug: #129327 in kubuntu-docs (main) "Internet section: Add a Internet Messaging section" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12932711:35
nixternalmaybe when you wake up mdke it will be at 50%11:36

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