[08:46] <mdke> morning all
[08:51] <Burgundavia> hey mdke
[08:53] <mdke> mpt: so I've been thinking about how we can go about using this gnome-user-docs vcs-import. Is the best approach to create a branch of it and store it at ~ubuntu-docs? Would we store the packaging for the Ubuntu package in the same branch, or a separate one (given that we'll need to merge changes from Debian for that)?
[10:30] <ubotu> New bug: #129189 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Instant Messaging Documentation: News Readers need more details" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/129189
[10:53] <mpt> mdke, the answer to your first question is probably "yes", but for your second question you'd need to ask someone with more (i.e. non-zero) experience in packaging-with-Bazaar
[06:59] <Spads> So how do you folks generate PDFs?  I see lots of rules in the Makefiles using "fop", but can't find it in Ubuntu.
[07:03] <CIA-14> Ubuntu Documentation: jjesse * r4196 common/authors/jonathan-jesse.xml: testing svn passsword
[07:03] <jjesse> wahoo got my password finaly reset
[07:03] <Spads> ah, that was me.
[07:04] <Spads> was CIA-14 not working for a while?
[07:04] <jjesse> must not have been
[07:04] <Spads> because I think I just fixed that as well
[07:04] <jjesse> cool congrats
[07:04] <Spads> and sped up svn commits
[07:04] <Spads> although you guys really should use bzr :)
[07:04] <jjesse> i keep telling them ;)
[07:04] <Spads> haha
[07:04] <Spads> fight the good fight!
[07:05] <Spads> anyway, sorry that took so long
[07:05] <jjesse> no problerms
[07:05] <Spads> so can you tell me how you guys build PDFs?
[07:05] <j1mc> jjesse: Admiral_Chicago and I were just talking about bzr on saturday.  seems like it's on a number of people's minds.
[07:06] <jjesse> Spads: I've never used it to buidl pdfs
[07:06] <jjesse> afk confrence call
[07:17] <nixternal> whoa
[07:17] <nixternal> CIA is working again
[07:17] <nixternal> jjesse: was you commit pretty fast?
[07:18] <nixternal> Spads: you rock!
[07:18] <nixternal> Spads: we use Apache FOP
[07:18] <Spads> nixternal: what package is that in?
[07:18] <nixternal> none that I know of...I had to build it from tarball
[07:19] <nixternal> I have been using a different method of late for KDE 4 documentation
[07:19] <Spads> is that method in the docteam svn?
[07:19] <nixternal> yes
[07:19] <nixternal> dblatex is good as well..that is what we use for KDE
[07:19] <nixternal> truthfully I don't like FOP...it is a real pita
[07:20] <nixternal> and dblatex is in the repos
[07:23] <Spads> okay
[07:23] <Spads> I'll take a look
[07:24] <Spads> nixternal: where would I see the kde 4 docs using dblatex?
[07:30] <nixternal> you would have to pull them from the KDE SVN
[07:30] <Spads> nixternal: got a URL?
[07:31] <nixternal> they are all over the place... but you can see http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdebase/doc as there is some documentation in there
[07:31] <nixternal> most of which hasn't really been updated just yet
[07:42] <jjesse> nixternal: yes my commit was pretty quick
[07:42] <Spads> excellent
[07:42] <Spads> nixternal: do you have an example of a URL I can just svn get and build to see a dblatex invocation happen?
[07:43] <nixternal> Spads: you can try our svn for dblatex... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
[07:45] <Spads> ah, I thought you said that was still using fop
[07:46] <nixternal> well, you can use dblatex for any document that is DocBook/XML
[07:47] <Spads> ah okay, I'll just give it a try then
[07:47] <Spads> the fop stuff seems to have xsl though, and I assume dblatex doesn't use that does it
[07:48] <Spads> so do you have to use LaTeX styles to affect the PDF output?
[07:48] <nixternal> it can if you tell it to
[07:48] <Spads> oh nice
[07:48] <Spads> basically I was hoping to find a Makefile where I could see what sort of options one passes for a production doc tree like this
[07:49] <nixternal> we do however have latex scripts we use for KDE docs
[07:49] <nixternal> I am not 100% familiar with it totally
[07:49] <Spads> ok
[07:49] <nixternal> ya, there are so many options, with dblatex and fop...it is crazy
[07:50] <nixternal> been a while since I last used FOP...probably the Edgy cycle while mdke was on vacation I think
[07:51] <Spads> heh, maybe I'll poke mdke
[07:52] <nixternal> he definitely knows fop
[07:53] <jjesse> do the topic based help docs build into pdf?
[07:53] <nixternal> I am sure they would if we added the stuff to the makefile
[07:54] <nixternal> KHC is going to be pretty cool in KDE 4...say you are looking at some help, and you would like to print it out, you can click a button and have it save it as a PDF to print out
[08:52] <F4EYE> good evening
[08:52] <jjesse> good afternoon :)
[08:52] <F4EYE> :)
[08:52] <F4EYE> 8H52 PM in France :)
[09:08] <Admiral_Chicago> jjesse: when is the book coming out? soon no?
[09:08] <jjesse> book is out already isn't it?
[09:09] <jjesse> i have my copy :)
[09:09] <jjesse> you can order it on amazon right now
[09:10] <mdke> mpt: thanks. I'm going to ask dholbach when he gets back from vacation, I think
[09:14] <jjesse> mdke: i got my svn password finally straightened out
[09:14] <jjesse> so i can commit again
[09:16] <Admiral_Chicago> ah okay. thanks
[09:17] <Admiral_Chicago> so it is out...
[09:25] <jjesse> yeah i only got two copies this time
[10:07] <mdke> jjesse: yay
[10:24] <nixternal> mdke: any bets on how long it takes him to misplace it again? :)
[10:24] <mdke> nixternal: I had just started typing that... I'll bet 3 days
[10:24] <nixternal> hahaha
[10:24] <nixternal> wow, you are generous with 3
[10:24] <mdke> you going lower?
[10:24] <nixternal> jjesse: ^^ yes we are picking on you :)
[10:25] <nixternal> I was going to say sometime tomorrow we will get the "Lets move Doc SVN to BZR" email
[10:26] <mdke> lol
[10:56] <mdke> aw man, the download feedback for bzr is still terrible
[10:58] <j1mc> the download feedback?  what do you mean?
[10:59] <mdke> the status progress information when checking out
[11:00] <nixternal> yes it is
[11:00] <nixternal> it is like it doesn't even match what is really going on
[11:00] <nixternal> just has the phase 1/4 and updates when it feels like it
[11:02] <mdke> it's a bit like the Windows one
[11:03] <nixternal> we just had a BZR developer give a talk at a recent LUG event, and he didn't sound to sure of himself when questioned...it kind of turned me off a bit
[11:03] <mdke> really? Who was it?
[11:03] <nixternal> John something
[11:03] <nixternal> he is from Chicago
[11:04] <nixternal> Admiral_Chicago or j1mc: do you remember his name?
[11:04] <mdke> John A Meinel?
[11:04] <j1mc> yes, that's him
[11:04] <j1mc> john@canonical.com
[11:04] <mdke> I thought he was one of the lead guys
[11:04] <nixternal> ya
[11:05] <nixternal> orly
[11:05] <mdke> he doesn't have a canonical email address on his lp account though, I don't think he works there
[11:05] <j1mc> nixternal: i thought he gave a good talk - answered our questions well . . . even ones about the speed of bzr, which has been a somewhat big issue.
[11:05] <nixternal> ya, I wasn't all to happy about the response to speed
[11:06] <nixternal> mdke: he does...he gave us a business card and emails the chicago team's ml with it
[11:06] <j1mc> he does work for canonical, though.
[11:06] <j1mc> yeah
[11:06] <mdke> oh, ok
[11:07] <nixternal> and he hacks from a iBook :)
[11:07] <nixternal> eww
[11:07] <j1mc> what-ever!
[11:08] <j1mc> ;-)  don't a lot of devs work from the new intel macs so they can see how their software works on linux, windows, and os x?
[11:09] <nixternal> ya
[11:09] <nixternal> I would too, but I can't afford one of them beasts
[11:11] <mdke> damn progress bar hasn't moved for 10 minutes
[11:12] <nixternal> lol
[11:12] <nixternal> bzr co whatever && go wait for days
[11:18] <mdke> haha
[11:18] <mdke> it got up to about 50% then finished
[11:20] <nixternal> haha, that is nuts
[11:20] <nixternal> I think I can seriously check out trunk/KDE in SVN before you could Ubuntu docs in BZR
[11:20] <mdke> ok, let's try pushing it back to Launchpad
[11:21] <nixternal> and we are talking over a gig and then some
[11:21] <nixternal> pushing it is actually not to bad
[11:22] <mdke> here we go, it starts on about 30% immediately then goes really slowly
[11:22] <nixternal> what are you pushing?
[11:25] <mdke> nixternal: gnome-user-docs
[11:25] <nixternal> ooh
[11:25] <nixternal> that will take you 2 months minimum for pushing one xml file :)
[11:27] <mdke> still on 30%
[11:27] <nixternal> haha, wow
[11:28] <mdke> it's already appearing here though, quite cool - https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc/gnome-user-docs/ubuntu-changes
[11:28] <j1mc> :-/  that is kind of sad.  at least the bzr devs know that speed is a problem.
[11:29] <nixternal> that is good they have gotten the updates to appear on the web quicker than 15 minutes like before
[11:29] <mdke> it's not the speed that bothers me, it's the poor feedback
[11:30] <j1mc> there's no "version 2344 of ubuntu docs checked out" message?
[11:31] <mdke> that's not what I want, I want a proper progress message while it's downloading/uploading
[11:31] <mdke> it's still on 30%
[11:33] <nixternal> heh, that doesn't sound right at all
[11:33] <j1mc> heh
[11:33] <mdke> well, maybe 35%
[11:35] <ubotu> New bug: #129327 in kubuntu-docs (main) "Internet section: Add a Internet Messaging section" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/129327
[11:36] <nixternal> lol
[11:36] <nixternal> maybe when you wake up mdke it will be at 50%