| Burgundavia | here is something ironic: CIO recommends SUSE for thin clietns over ubuntu | 12:33 |
|---|---|---|
| Burgundavia | http://www.cio.com/article/print/126702 | 12:33 |
| LaserJock | oh Burgundavia, you're here | 12:35 |
| Burgundavia | hey LaserJock | 12:35 |
| LaserJock | your former colleagues are bugging me today ;-) | 12:35 |
| Burgundavia | heh | 12:36 |
| Burgundavia | what about? | 12:36 |
| LaserJock | the usual | 12:36 |
| LaserJock | Desktop Multiplier should be updated | 12:36 |
| LaserJock | Burgundavia: they're still trying to get it into Feisty | 12:39 |
| Burgundavia | right, have you emailed them the SRU documentation? | 12:44 |
| LaserJock | no, I just gave an explanation an pointed out the release schedule | 12:45 |
| Burgundavia | given the binary nature of d-m, I would say an SRU is acceptable | 12:52 |
| LaserJock | yeah, but we don't do new upstream releases in -updates | 12:56 |
| Burgundavia | LaserJock: what about flashplayer? | 01:01 |
| LaserJock | hmm, you're right | 01:02 |
| Burgundavia | this is pretty much purely binary crap | 01:03 |
| LaserJock | I'm not sure if I can get away with an SRU (no data loss bug, etc.) but at least there is precedent there | 01:04 |
| Burgundavia | I don't honestly trust Jason, so meh | 01:06 |
| Burgundavia | remember, I have seen Userful's "QA" policies | 01:06 |
| LaserJock | heh | 01:10 |
| LaserJock | he's going to test his new package on Gutsy and get back to me | 01:10 |
| LaserJock | so I'm off the hook for a little bit | 01:10 |
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| moquist | Burgundavia: Yeah, that is ironic. I'm not sure how he could recommend SUSE for TCs unless he's ignorant of the entire direction of the LTSP. | 01:36 |
| Burgundavia | moquist: likely he doesn't know about it | 01:37 |
| moquist | I thougt the comparison of SUSE-Windows and Ubuntu-Mac was interesting. | 01:45 |
| moquist | It may explain part of why I can't stand SUSE. | 01:45 |
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| sbalneav | Well. Multi host to do now. | 03:41 |
| sbalneav | Man, been a busy couple of days. | 03:41 |
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| johanisrembet | Hari ini saya telah terima. Terima kasih atas kiriman 6 cd ubuntu. | 06:48 |
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| encompass | howdy all... working on my GSoC project PyStart and hope you guys can help... I am looking for the deb package that would have this in it... I need this module to safely run students code inside of pystart. | 03:15 |
| encompass | http://pypi.python.org/pypi/RestrictedPython/3.4.2#print | 03:15 |
| cliebow | ogra is around here somewhere.... | 03:23 |
| encompass | does he know this kinda stuff? | 03:23 |
| encompass | I jsut found out it is part of the Zope system if it gives any hints | 03:24 |
| ogra | thats in zope3 | 03:24 |
| encompass | bingo | 03:24 |
| ogra | i dont know this kinda stuff ;) | 03:24 |
| ogra | but i know where to look | 03:24 |
| ogra | http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=RestrictedPython&searchmode=searchfilesanddirs&case=insensitive&version=feisty&arch=i386 | 03:24 |
| === encompass clicks | ||
| ogra | intresting that koffice duplicated the code here | 03:25 |
| encompass | they did... they should have it as a separate package so I can use it :P I don't see any other way of testing untrusted code then threw this. But if I just use the egg then it screws up my program going into edubuntu sooner | 03:26 |
| encompass | ogra: should I make a package of this along with my GSoC project? | 03:27 |
| ogra | given that schooltool will likely be shipped again this release, we'll have zope aboard in edubuntu | 03:27 |
| encompass | It would be a pain but my guess the only way | 03:27 |
| encompass | ok | 03:27 |
| ogra | talk to doko, he makes such decisions for our python stack | 03:28 |
| ogra | in case you want a separate package | 03:28 |
| ogra | hving koffice ship its own *and* a third project using it might justify that | 03:28 |
| encompass | yeah... otherwise PyStart required zope3 :P | 03:28 |
| encompass | how best should I talk to doko? | 03:29 |
| encompass | threw pete? | 03:29 |
| ogra | either yourself in #ubuntu-devel or through your mentor | 03:29 |
| ogra | doko is a nice guy he wont eat you ;) just explain the prob | 03:30 |
| encompass | thanks I will hope over | 03:31 |
| === encompass hopes | ||
| === encompass hops :D | ||
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| Eelloe | Goeden avond allen tesamen | 06:07 |
| Eelloe | can somone help me with a network problem ?? | 06:09 |
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| LaserJock | now where did RichEd run off too :-) | 06:51 |
| jsgotangco | greetings from Bangkok | 06:55 |
| LaserJock | hi jerome | 06:56 |
| jsgotangco | hey jordan, hows it going | 06:57 |
| === jsgotangco has a pretty toxic sched lately | ||
| LaserJock | man, it's been rough | 07:02 |
| LaserJock | the laser went down at work | 07:02 |
| LaserJock | I spent over a week debugging electronics, etc. | 07:03 |
| jsgotangco | yikes | 07:08 |
| jsgotangco | ive been living in planes for 2 weeks already! | 07:08 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 07:10 |
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| bddebian | Heya | 07:16 |
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| SimonAnibal | RichEd, hey there, how are you today? | 07:39 |
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| RichEd | hey SimonAnibal ... struggling with a head cold and fuzzy brain ... courtesy of a 31 hour travel + jet lag + getting home to a snotty wife | 07:41 |
| RichEd | but alive and kicking | 07:41 |
| SimonAnibal | Right on, I've been doing a bit of travel lately myself | 07:41 |
| SimonAnibal | Except I was doing it for vacation | 07:41 |
| SimonAnibal | Not that it was relaxing because of that, but at least I was inflicting it on myself ;-) | 07:42 |
| RichEd | :) was just about to ask if the new job was opening up the world to you | 07:42 |
| SimonAnibal | I'm certainly learning a lot at the new job | 07:42 |
| RichEd | where did you go ? head down south for a bit? | 07:42 |
| SimonAnibal | I love it, and I'm exhausted as all getout after work | 07:42 |
| RichEd | jillc: ping | 07:42 |
| SimonAnibal | Yeah, I went home to Venezuela for about 3 week | 07:42 |
| RichEd | SimonAnibal: nice ... me needs to get to South America some time ... may go to brazil in september | 07:43 |
| SimonAnibal | Well, assuming it's as beautiful as Venezuela ;-) you'll love it | 07:43 |
| SimonAnibal | Hey, there's a conference going on here that might interest you in October | 07:44 |
| SimonAnibal | http://www.openmindsconference.org | 07:44 |
| RichEd | SimonAnibal: I come from a Southern Continent myself ... real nature ... not the tame kind | 07:44 |
| SimonAnibal | The guy who spearheads the 1:1 access program in the state is putting it up | 07:44 |
| RichEd | tom hoffman has already probed me about that ... it's being organised by our mutual connection - your and my first interaction mr huffman | 07:45 |
| SimonAnibal | RichEd, I was planning on going camping about as far from civilization as one can still get with a car, but my dad's car wasn't up to the task, so we postponed that for next year | 07:45 |
| RichEd | (and he's no relation to felicity i presume) | 07:46 |
| SimonAnibal | RichEd, nods, he was the keynote speaker at the CINLUG meeting you asked me to attend on Canonical's behalf | 07:46 |
| SimonAnibal | RichEd, I'm afraid that reference is lost on me | 07:46 |
| RichEd | SimonAnibal: use the thumb transport :) | 07:47 |
| RichEd | feilicy huffman is one of the desperate housewives actresses ... married to william h macy | 07:47 |
| SimonAnibal | I see, Transamerica | 07:47 |
| SimonAnibal | I never got to see that one | 07:47 |
| RichEd | yes indeed :) | 07:47 |
| SimonAnibal | I did see Magnolia... | 07:48 |
| SimonAnibal | Mike made it a point to get me a card about the conference when he saw my new boss at NECC this year | 07:49 |
| SimonAnibal | It seems that next year's NECC will be taking place during my honeymoon, so I won't get to go to that one either | 07:49 |
| SimonAnibal | *shrug* I don't think I'll be worrying too much about it | 07:50 |
| RichEd | difficult choice ... option 1: surrounded by geeks ... option 2: alone with a new bride .... erm ... | 07:50 |
| RichEd | mind you ... some of the hacker types I know may chose option 1 :) | 07:51 |
| === RichEd heads off for some dinner | ||
| SimonAnibal | RichEd, I would never live it down if I did | 07:51 |
| SimonAnibal | I've already had to push the wedding back a couple of weeks because of my new job | 07:51 |
| === RichEd whacks SimonAnibal over the head with a keyboard for even considering it ;P | ||
| SimonAnibal | RichEd, richly deserved | 07:52 |
| SimonAnibal | if I had been serious, at least ;-) | 07:53 |
| LaserJock | I don't know | 07:54 |
| LaserJock | option 1 can be a lot of fun | 07:55 |
| RichEd | well if your jockstrap is made of light ... maybe :) | 07:56 |
| RichEd | but if you are packing ... option 2 is better | 07:56 |
| LaserJock | I'm ... not even going there | 07:56 |
| RichEd | SimonAnibal prolly won't invite others along | 07:57 |
| RichEd | me heads off for some food before he (1) starves or (2) offends someone | 07:57 |
| SimonAnibal | Ummm, no, not for the honeymoon. We'll be alone (or as alone as possible, at least) on a tropical archipelago resort. I'm not usually one for going "non-native" and getting the fancy treatment, but I figure that if there's one time in life when it's appropriate, it's the honeymoon | 08:01 |
| nixternal | shhhhhh! you guys are talking to much in here :) | 08:04 |
| SimonAnibal | sorry | 08:06 |
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| jillc | Hello from Arizona. | 08:22 |
| LaserJock | hello | 08:22 |
| LaserJock | from Nevada | 08:22 |
| bddebian | Hello from Pennsylvania | 08:23 |
| ogra | hello from germany (even though i'm not officially here until meeting starts :)) | 08:23 |
| LaserJock | ogra: where in Germany? | 08:23 |
| ogra | kassel | 08:24 |
| ogra | hess | 08:24 |
| ogra | ah, no its hesse in english ... | 08:24 |
| === ogra pats his dictionary | ||
| bddebian | heh | 08:24 |
| LaserJock | I think it's weird how the same place is called different things in different languages | 08:25 |
| jillc | Hi LaserJock, did you get storms yesterday? | 08:25 |
| LaserJock | kassel is just as good as hesse to me | 08:25 |
| ogra | heh | 08:25 |
| LaserJock | jillc: hmm, no. It doesn't exactly storm too much here. I'm in Reno so probably too far north for you | 08:26 |
| jillc | probably much cooler too! | 08:26 |
| ogra | LaserJock, http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=kassel+heinrich-zille+str.+5&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=31.013085,58.886719&ie=UTF8&ll=51.293834,9.46279&spn=0.011942,0.028753&t=k&z=15&om=1 | 08:26 |
| ogra | ;) | 08:26 |
| LaserJock | jillc: perhaps, it's been 100+ this week | 08:27 |
| LaserJock | ogra: it looks green | 08:28 |
| jillc | Yes, 100+ here too. Day after day | 08:28 |
| ogra | kind of ... | 08:28 |
| LaserJock | ogra: mine's not so green, http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=6482+Oneida+Ct,+Sun+Valley,+NV+89433&sll=50.526495,9.004442&sspn=4.358581,8.118896&ie=UTF8&ll=39.610978,-119.7628&spn=0.010315,0.015857&t=k&z=16&iwloc=addr&om=1 | 08:28 |
| ogra | to be honest i didnt really examine the environment yet ... in the one year i live here | 08:29 |
| LaserJock | lol | 08:29 |
| ogra | seems like you have a nice view over the edge from that place | 08:29 |
| LaserJock | hah | 08:29 |
| LaserJock | view of desert | 08:29 |
| LaserJock | sand and sagebrush | 08:29 |
| ogra | yeah | 08:29 |
| jillc | Beautiful sunsets though, yes? | 08:30 |
| LaserJock | yes | 08:30 |
| LaserJock | although not as good as the Montana sunsets I grew up with ;-) | 08:30 |
| jillc | there are few places that can rival Montana for their sunsets. | 08:31 |
| LaserJock | amen to that | 08:31 |
| jillc | when does the meeting start? do I have time to grab a sandwich? | 08:31 |
| LaserJock | I think it's at noon | 08:32 |
| ogra | if you go into #ubuntu-meeting and type: @now it will tell you :) | 08:32 |
| LaserJock | or maybe 1:00 | 08:32 |
| jillc | okay, I'm off to make a PBJ. | 08:32 |
| LaserJock | it's at 1:00, UTC 20:00 -7 | 08:33 |
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| LaserJock | ogra: how long does it take to drive to Frankfurt from your house? | 08:37 |
| ogra | about 2h | 08:37 |
| ogra | hannover is nearer | 08:37 |
| stgraber | I won't be able to attend the meeting tonight :( | 08:39 |
| LaserJock | bummer | 08:39 |
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| will_ | darn, freenode won't let me use my nick | 09:50 |
| LaserJock | will_: that's no good, why not? | 09:52 |
| will_ | says "will" is already in use | 09:52 |
| will_ | also seems my nickserv password is not being accepted | 09:52 |
| RichEd | hey willvdl | 09:53 |
| LaserJock | meeting in 7min? | 09:54 |
| LaserJock | or 6 now | 09:54 |
| RichEd | === edubuntu meeting in 5 min === in #ubuntu-meeting === | 09:54 |
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| willvdl | aha, it's me! | 09:55 |
| RichEd | LaserJock: 5.5 min | 09:55 |
| LaserJock | willvdl: \o/ | 09:55 |
| RichEd | hey will_ | 09:55 |
| willvdl | hey hey | 09:55 |
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| RichEd | how was the vacation willvdl ? | 09:56 |
| willvdl | it's still good :) | 09:57 |
| RichEd | hi mr hoffman | 09:57 |
| th1a | hi RichEd. | 09:59 |
| th1a | RichEd: We've got to catch up sometime soon. | 10:00 |
| th1a | Oh, I'm in the wrong channel for the meeting. | 10:01 |
| RichEd | th1a: been looking at those dates for k12 open minds ... nothing else cose by that I can piggyback on | 10:01 |
| RichEd | === edubuntu meeting now === in #ubuntu-meeting === | 10:01 |
| nixternal | just so you guys know, if there is any kde help you may need, I am available on that part if Riddell is busy or out partying past his bed time | 10:42 |
| LaserJock | nixternal: I think we need to make sure edubuntu-docs will work for khelpcenter | 10:43 |
| nixternal | we will have to change <ulink type="ghelp" "whatever.xml"> ro <ulink type="help" url="help:/edubuntu/whatever"> | 10:43 |
| nixternal | ro? s/ro/to | 10:44 |
| LaserJock | doesn't khelpcenter need HTML? | 10:46 |
| nixternal | nope, it can do .docbook, but not .xml | 10:46 |
| LaserJock | heh, so just rename the files | 10:46 |
| nixternal | yup, but you would still have to change the <ulinks> if you did them with the type="help" | 10:47 |
| nixternal | I want to .docbook for Kubuntu docs so you don't have to build anything | 10:47 |
| LaserJock | cool | 10:47 |
| LaserJock | I don't *think* we have an ghelp links | 10:48 |
| LaserJock | but we can check | 10:48 |
| nixternal | but can Yelp do .docbook? | 10:48 |
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| LaserJock | nixternal: I have no idea, doesn't really matter though | 10:50 |
| LaserJock | I think they have to go to different paths anyway, so we can simlink or copy | 10:51 |
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| RichEd | ---> meeting continuation ... here <--- | 10:59 |
| LaserJock | so, the meeting proposal | 10:59 |
| highvoltage | hey | 10:59 |
| RichEd | can I chat about a proposed agenda for splitting the meeting into 2 x 1 hour | 10:59 |
| RichEd | to see if it makes sense ... | 11:00 |
| RichEd | The old meeting agenda was: | 11:00 |
| RichEd | # Technical | 11:00 |
| RichEd | # Documentation | 11:00 |
| RichEd | # Art Work | 11:00 |
| RichEd | # Web Sites | 11:00 |
| RichEd | # Community | 11:00 |
| RichEd | # Management & Planning | 11:00 |
| RichEd | # Any other Matters Arising | 11:00 |
| RichEd | and that ran over 2 hours | 11:00 |
| RichEd | and the agenda was quite loose ... so things could drag out a bit | 11:00 |
| RichEd | so there has been a proposal bounced around about splitting the meeting into 2 | 11:01 |
| RichEd | #1 technical - 1 hour - led by Oliver | 11:01 |
| === ogra_ nods | ||
| RichEd | #2 community & contributors - 1 hour - led by Richard | 11:01 |
| pips1 | +1 | 11:02 |
| RichEd | so I've played around with splitting the agenda, and giving it more structure ... | 11:02 |
| RichEd | would this work ... as a starting suggestion: | 11:02 |
| RichEd | #1 : Edubuntu Technical - Product | 11:02 |
| RichEd | 1 HOUR led by Oliver | 11:02 |
| RichEd | * Development : General | 11:02 |
| RichEd | * Development : Activities for the past week | 11:02 |
| RichEd | * Current Release Cycle | 11:02 |
| RichEd | - next deadline | 11:02 |
| RichEd | - what's needed / outstanding | 11:02 |
| RichEd | * Coding | 11:02 |
| RichEd | * Testing | 11:02 |
| RichEd | * Documentation | 11:03 |
| RichEd | * Artwork | 11:03 |
| RichEd | * Upstream news | 11:03 |
| ogra_ | do you plan a second doc run in the second part ` | 11:03 |
| RichEd | (comment: where we are in the release cycle and next deadline i think would be good to have as a context each time) | 11:03 |
| ogra_ | ? | 11:03 |
| RichEd | well let me put that up: | 11:03 |
| RichEd | #2 Edubuntu Community & Contributors | 11:04 |
| RichEd | 1 HOUR led by Richard | 11:04 |
| RichEd | * Edubuntu Members | 11:04 |
| RichEd | - new people applying / joining / introducing themselves | 11:04 |
| RichEd | - approvals : 1st meeting of every month | 11:04 |
| RichEd | * Edubuntu Documentation Team | 11:04 |
| RichEd | * Edubuntu Handbook Contributors | 11:04 |
| RichEd | * Edubuntu Artwork | 11:04 |
| RichEd | * Edubuntu Advocacy | 11:04 |
| RichEd | * Websites | 11:04 |
| RichEd | - www.edubuntu.org | 11:04 |
| RichEd | - wiki.edubuntu.com | 11:04 |
| RichEd | - community | 11:04 |
| RichEd | * Community General | 11:04 |
| RichEd | * Partner Projects | 11:04 |
| RichEd | * Upcoming | 11:04 |
| RichEd | - Events / Conferences / Expos | 11:04 |
| RichEd | (comment: so the second part would revolve more around the LP group activities | 11:04 |
| LaserJock | RichEd: did you get my email about this? | 11:04 |
| RichEd | LaserJock: what was the subject ... let me check | 11:05 |
| ogra_ | i dont think we should duplicate artwork and doc efforts ... | 11:05 |
| RichEd | nb ... the above is just a suggestion ... we need to decide as a group | 11:05 |
| ogra_ | i'd put a * Genreal in place so if there are really art or doc issues related to tech we can discuss that there | 11:05 |
| RichEd | ogra_: the first meeting would revolve around art for deadline ... | 11:05 |
| LaserJock | RichEd: "Edubuntu meeting notes" | 11:06 |
| ogra_ | but the master part should stay in one hand for both | 11:06 |
| RichEd | but the 2nd one would be more about the people ... and mentoring ... introducing people into the contributor community | 11:06 |
| === RichEd was trying to work out how to do this ... how would we resolve that ? | ||
| LaserJock | well, I've got a couple comments | 11:07 |
| RichEd | LaserJock: checking mail now ... | 11:07 |
| === RichEd listens intently | ||
| LaserJock | 1) this is too big and it's too rigid. We don't have people for most of that | 11:07 |
| ogra_ | well, i wont have much to talk about in the tech part for docs ... and i see the content management/decisions rather in the second meeting | 11:07 |
| LaserJock | 2) it seems like the idea was to divide technical from non-technical but it looks more like Canonical vs non-Canonical, which is not a good message | 11:08 |
| RichEd | LaserJock: that was not at all my intention ... it did not even occur to me | 11:08 |
| ogra_ | to me neither, but now i know why i didnt like art and docs in the dev part :) | 11:09 |
| LaserJock | of course, I know you don't intend that | 11:09 |
| RichEd | LaserJock: just scanned your mail ... we are on the same wavelength :) | 11:09 |
| LaserJock | my suggestion, briefly, was the following: | 11:09 |
| ogra_ | "#1 : Edubuntu Technical - Product" is the title :) we should soften that a bit | 11:10 |
| RichEd | perhaps a simple summary of the split i proposed above is almost: | 11:10 |
| RichEd | #1 work to deadline | 11:10 |
| ogra_ | make that just "edubuntu development" | 11:10 |
| RichEd | #2 life outside the deadline and how to get involved | 11:10 |
| LaserJock | 1) ogra's section be shortish 30min maybe with Development Team style reports from Edubuntu devs | 11:10 |
| RichEd | ogra_: a thought just occured to me: | 11:11 |
| RichEd | #1 edubuntu-devel | 11:11 |
| ogra_ | LaserJock, sounds good | 11:11 |
| RichEd | #2 edubuntu-usersd | 11:11 |
| RichEd | #2 edubuntu-users | 11:11 |
| ogra_ | right | 11:11 |
| LaserJock | yes, that's better | 11:11 |
| ogra_ | LaserJock, well, thats usually what i do ... | 11:11 |
| ogra_ | so beyond the fact that there are not many devs its similar to a distro team meeting :) | 11:12 |
| RichEd | ogra_: the reason I see that we need art / docs potentially in part 1 is to note what is needed for deadlines | 11:12 |
| RichEd | those actiond can carry over into part 2 for people to tackle | 11:12 |
| LaserJock | ogra_: well, perhaps we need to more formally do that though, beyond just you | 11:12 |
| RichEd | same for docs | 11:12 |
| ogra_ | RichEd, right, i think if we face art or doc deadlines it makes sense for devs having docs to contribute to attend the second meeting | 11:13 |
| LaserJock | yes, part one should be status reports from the devels/leads | 11:13 |
| ogra_ | LaserJock, so that would be you and me then ? :) | 11:13 |
| LaserJock | mostly to start with | 11:13 |
| RichEd | ogra_: indeed ... but in part 1 the "project manager" brings the action items to the table with status | 11:13 |
| LaserJock | but also an art lead | 11:13 |
| ogra_ | sbalneav if he attends | 11:13 |
| LaserJock | and if we get some more MOTUs them too | 11:14 |
| ogra_ | right | 11:14 |
| LaserJock | anybody working on a spec, etc. | 11:14 |
| RichEd | so that we help take the pressure off ogra and have less stuff rattling around in his head | 11:14 |
| LaserJock | what happens now is we start of with status reports and end in a free-for-all | 11:14 |
| ogra_ | RichEd, my had isnt the worrying part of my body :) | 11:14 |
| jillc | I'm glad to know that other people's heads rattle too | 11:15 |
| === RichEd thinks we are getting somewhere ... taking shape better now | ||
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| LaserJock | I think if we tie the first part to edubuntu-devel discussions | 11:15 |
| LaserJock | so we don't have to use the meeting for all tech discussions | 11:15 |
| RichEd | LaserJock: explan that in a few more words | 11:16 |
| LaserJock | well | 11:16 |
| === RichEd is slow with a head cold tonight | ||
| LaserJock | when I get to the meeting I feel like I gotta get everything talked about | 11:16 |
| LaserJock | because this is the one time in the week when everybody is around | 11:16 |
| pips1 | ogra: LOL | 11:16 |
| LaserJock | but really when a topic needs a good discussion it should be moved to the mailing list | 11:16 |
| LaserJock | if it can be worked out in a couple minutes fine | 11:17 |
| RichEd | LaserJock: agreed ... but do you think there should be some crossover between the meeting and the mail list | 11:17 |
| LaserJock | but I think the tech part would be good to be mostly a : this is what I did this week, this is what I'm doing next week, and this is problems I'm having | 11:17 |
| RichEd | like would it make sense to discuss some of the mail list posts (solutions / unsolved issues) in the meeting | 11:18 |
| LaserJock | and if the "problems I'm having" is non-trivial it should go to the mailing list | 11:18 |
| LaserJock | well, I would imagine it would go from IRC -> mailing list not the other way around, but it could | 11:18 |
| LaserJock | but I think we can handle the tech part in probably 15 min normally | 11:19 |
| RichEd | ^ LaserJock : agreed what I did, and doing etc. but i also think a quick recap of the current place in the 6 month dev cycle would help a lot | 11:19 |
| LaserJock | yes | 11:19 |
| RichEd | here is a paste of the significant stages in the cycle: | 11:19 |
| pips1 | I agree too | 11:19 |
| LaserJock | my point was that if we are effectively using the mailing list we don't need to use the meeting as a troubleshooting session | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * Toolchain Uploaded | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * Development Summit | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * Specifications must be finalized, translations exported from LP | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * Tribe CD 1 | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * DebianImportFreeze | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * Remaining upstream merges completed, Rebuild Test | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * Tribe CD 2 | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * Server Team Sprint (Mon-Fri) | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * Developer Sprint (Mon-Fri) | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * Tribe CD 3 | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * Tribe CD 4 | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * FeatureFreeze, /!\ UpstreamVersionFreeze , /!\ ArtworkDeadlineOne, /!\ UVF Universe | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * Rebuild Test, Upgrade Testing begins | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * ArtworkDeadlineTwo, /!\ NewPackagesFreezeUniverse | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * Tribe CD 6 | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * StringFreeze | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * BetaFreeze, /!\ GutsyArtworkFinalDeadline | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * Rebuild Test | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * BetaRelease | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline, /!\ KernelFreeze | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * Rebuild Test | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * ReleaseCandidate, /!\ LanguagePackTranslationDeadline | 11:20 |
| RichEd | * FinalRelease | 11:21 |
| RichEd | * Development Summit | 11:21 |
| RichEd | --- | 11:21 |
| LaserJock | it should just be status reports and making sure everything is on track | 11:21 |
| RichEd | so i think a few words from ogra each week about what has passed and what is next would help (1) the process and deadlines and (2) the understanding of a lot of people | 11:21 |
| ogra_ | agreed | 11:21 |
| RichEd | so that they understand the cycle | 11:21 |
| RichEd | and the language | 11:21 |
| RichEd | ogra_: agreed with me ? or LaserJock or both | 11:21 |
| ogra_ | with you in any case | 11:22 |
| pips1 | hehe | 11:22 |
| LaserJock | ok, so, status reports from devs/team leads and then "upcoming deadlines" | 11:22 |
| RichEd | i'd be in favour of a weekly status ... report and update | 11:22 |
| ogra_ | i'm not sure about the part of the weekly reports, since thats means to me to do it twice | 11:22 |
| LaserJock | ogra_: well, it'll be mostly trivial | 11:22 |
| === Rondom [n=Rondom@p57A95326.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #edubuntu | ||
| RichEd | so that we have the same weekly template, with a few items updated | 11:22 |
| ogra_ | (i am attending the distro team meetings a swell) | 11:22 |
| LaserJock | ogra_: I'm not thinking as formal as the Devel Meetings | 11:22 |
| RichEd | ogra_: i'd hope that you can tell us in IRC and someone else do the updates | 11:23 |
| ogra_ | LaserJock, right | 11:23 |
| LaserJock | what you are doing now mostly | 11:23 |
| ogra_ | RichEd, well, i have to mail in my weekly reports anyway... but i'm quite happy thats on an optional base for me atm ... | 11:23 |
| RichEd | it wouldf even be better if we had someone else walk you through the items each week, to make sure all things are convered, and updated | 11:23 |
| ogra_ | a secretary :) | 11:24 |
| RichEd | <snap> like a secretary ... | 11:24 |
| RichEd | :) | 11:24 |
| RichEd | then minutes become easier to take and publish and more effective | 11:24 |
| LaserJock | ok, so is everybody on the same page for the first part? | 11:24 |
| ogra_ | yep | 11:24 |
| RichEd | instead of a list of the meeting conversation in all it's glory | 11:24 |
| RichEd | LaserJock: seems to me ... yes | 11:25 |
| pips1 | LaserJock: I agree that we should try to keep the meeting time down to a necessary minimum, and I think the status updates will insure that, but I also see that sometimes, it happens that some developers that do volunteer work might attend a meeting "without warning" and they then need to discuss a certain thing they are working on, and that technical discussion might take up anywhere from 10-30 mins... | 11:25 |
| ogra_ | pips1, thats why we have 1h for that :) | 11:25 |
| RichEd | i'm happy to make a wiki page with the proposede agenda (as per these discussions) down for editing / comments, agreement next week | 11:26 |
| ogra_ | if we ever find we need more we can do that | 11:26 |
| RichEd | and i'll try to create a weekly status template | 11:26 |
| === ogra_ is now known as ogra | ||
| RichEd | i'll also act as the secretary for a week or three to get the minutes going | 11:26 |
| === RichEd will *not* sit on ogra's knee while taking notes though | ||
| ogra | :( | 11:27 |
| === ogra was hoping for a miniskirt as well :P | ||
| LaserJock | pips1: I think that's what the mailing list is for | 11:27 |
| RichEd | ogra: what size are you ? | 11:27 |
| ogra | o_O | 11:27 |
| jillc | I need to run. It was nice meeting all of you. I've enjoyed it. You guys are funny. | 11:28 |
| ogra | ciao jillc, thanks for dropping by :) | 11:28 |
| RichEd | thanks jillc | 11:28 |
| LaserJock | jillc: yes, nice to meet you. Thanks for stepping up to help with art | 11:28 |
| RichEd | chat to you in email soon | 11:28 |
| RichEd | LaserJock: so for part two ... i think we are in agreement as well ... on intention | 11:28 |
| LaserJock | part two should be user oriented | 11:29 |
| RichEd | my thought was to based the meetings around the lp groups ... | 11:29 |
| LaserJock | trying to get feedback, "How do I get involved?" etc. | 11:29 |
| LaserJock | I suggested in my email that we might do a Top 5 user complaints | 11:29 |
| RichEd | LaserJock: yep ... we're i'n agreement ... and the getting involved should be based around a group | 11:30 |
| LaserJock | kinda | 11:30 |
| LaserJock | my concern is that we don't really have very strong groups | 11:30 |
| RichEd | with tasks listed, and people to mentor / assist etc. | 11:30 |
| LaserJock | so we need to build that first | 11:30 |
| RichEd | and conversely, if we have a group in LP with 20 members, and none of them ever attends a meeting, how does that help ? | 11:30 |
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| pips1 | LaserJock: yes, ideally, i agree. but I think there is a "soft" problem with the mailing list... people are more aware that a mailing post reaches a larger audience, so I suspect they hesitate to write about something that is not a bit thought out... but development discussions sometimes are also "informal" and "half baked", so people are more confortable with IRC for that... | 11:31 |
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| RichEd | and perhaps we also need a LP group to match the mail list ... edubuntu-users | 11:31 |
| LaserJock | pips1: kinda, but a meeting is not the place for it either ;-) | 11:32 |
| === RichEd is just throwing out ideas and is happy to be shot down if they do not make sense | ||
| LaserJock | I think we have to many LP groups anyway | 11:32 |
| ogra | ++ | 11:32 |
| LaserJock | forget the groups/teams | 11:32 |
| LaserJock | lets focus on people first | 11:32 |
| RichEd | LaserJock: precisely ... so let's cull the dead wood | 11:32 |
| RichEd | (LP groups II mean) | 11:33 |
| LaserJock | once we have enough people then they will naturally for teams | 11:33 |
| LaserJock | *form | 11:33 |
| LaserJock | so to start with I think the second part needs to have two elements: | 11:33 |
| LaserJock | 1) giving users a voice | 11:33 |
| pips1 | Laserjock: ok, agreed. I'm all with you that we should be clear what we want to encourage ("idea process"), reality will always differ slightly :-) | 11:33 |
| LaserJock | 2) giving people easy things they can do to help out | 11:34 |
| pips1 | *("ideal process") | 11:34 |
| LaserJock | pips1: sure, there's always some room for that ;-) but the tech section should really take < 30 min | 11:34 |
| RichEd | LaserJock: i'd say swap the order ... 1) help out discussions ... contributors 2) user voice / discussions | 11:34 |
| LaserJock | 5-10 for reports and say 20 for tech discussion | 11:34 |
| LaserJock | well, I don't think the order is really that important | 11:35 |
| LaserJock | and making a rigid agenda doesn't work all that well | 11:35 |
| LaserJock | people should be adding agenda items to the wiki | 11:35 |
| LaserJock | it helps them show up when they are responsible for an item | 11:36 |
| RichEd | LaserJock: agreed on wiki agenda | 11:36 |
| LaserJock | you just gotta provide enough reason for them to show up in the first place ;-) | 11:36 |
| RichEd | but having sections to prompt ideas is good ... even if no items are filed for any particular week | 11:36 |
| LaserJock | sure | 11:36 |
| RichEd | how long would you see the meeting(s) ... | 11:36 |
| LaserJock | I think 1.5 hrs | 11:37 |
| RichEd | ogra: doesn't tech take up to an hour around testing time ? | 11:37 |
| ogra | it can, yes | 11:37 |
| LaserJock | 30 min for tech, 1 hr for non-tech | 11:37 |
| ogra | but thats special time | 11:37 |
| RichEd | LaserJock: why not have 2 meetings 1 hour each | 11:37 |
| RichEd | 1: edubuntu-devel | 11:37 |
| LaserJock | because that's an aweful lot for people doing both | 11:37 |
| RichEd | 2\: edubuntu-users | 11:37 |
| LaserJock | I'd like to see 1 hr for the whole thing tbh | 11:38 |
| pips1 | LaserJock: who would do both besides the people here, ie ogra, RichEd, possibly you? | 11:38 |
| LaserJock | I think many people would want to show up for both | 11:38 |
| pips1 | hmm | 11:38 |
| RichEd | So I think we can structure the part 2 in a way that ogra wold be able to leave after 90 mins | 11:38 |
| LaserJock | maybe people wouldn't talk a lot during the first part | 11:38 |
| LaserJock | but it's still interesting | 11:39 |
| LaserJock | but of course all this can be adjusted | 11:39 |
| RichEd | the last half of part two would be teacher / user / event / project stuff that would not be needed for the tech people | 11:39 |
| LaserJock | I'd say start with a sane length then adjust if we're either running out of time constantly or spending 1/2 the time twiddling our thumbs | 11:39 |
| RichEd | and the first half of part one would not be needed for the user people ... | 11:40 |
| ogra | well, there is overlap ... | 11:40 |
| LaserJock | I think it's going to be a fight to get people to show up, honestly | 11:40 |
| LaserJock | I don't see a lot of teachers on IRC | 11:40 |
| ogra | in the mentioned testing times before release i need users to help testing | 11:40 |
| RichEd | but if we split the meeting into 2 and aim at each mailing list for announcements and agenda ... I am sure we would get more users | 11:40 |
| pips1 | for me, the problem is that i'm interested in a tech update, but often the tech goes into a long discussion and then general chatter, and I can hang around for that... just because I really want to be there for the last item "community", and then it turns out that the "community" item get's dropped altogether, because nobody is there anymore... | 11:41 |
| RichEd | ogra: again, the proposal works for that ... the testing requirements are updated with status and deadline in the 1st meeting | 11:41 |
| RichEd | and community users can pick up tasks in part 2 | 11:41 |
| ogra | which the users dont attend | 11:41 |
| LaserJock | pips1: yep, that's why I think we need short tech section with moving non-trivial discussions to mailing list | 11:41 |
| RichEd | ogra: they do not need to understand how you wrote the code they are volunteering to test | 11:42 |
| pips1 | *I can't hang around | 11:42 |
| ogra | but they want testplans and have questions | 11:42 |
| LaserJock | well, there's certainly going to be overlap | 11:43 |
| LaserJock | that's why I don't see this as two separate meetings | 11:43 |
| ogra | i'm fine to attend the second meeting these times | 11:43 |
| LaserJock | most people *should* attend both | 11:43 |
| ogra | but the structure doesnt reflect reality in this case | 11:43 |
| RichEd | ogra; so we can move that sort of testing stuff to the first half of the second meeting | 11:43 |
| ogra | right, that would be better | 11:43 |
| LaserJock | well, the tech discussion should be discussing the tech aspects of the testing, what bugs came up, etc. | 11:44 |
| RichEd | ogra: under : Edubuntu Testers | 11:44 |
| LaserJock | the second section should have the "call to test" | 11:44 |
| LaserJock | which ogra really shouldn't have to do anyway | 11:45 |
| ogra | LaserJock, it also needs testing plans etc ... i might miss something that a trivial question from a user points out in a discussuion for example ... i dont want to miss out on that | 11:45 |
| LaserJock | well sure | 11:45 |
| RichEd | LaserJock: would you see that every person who tests would attend the tech meeting, or do the user level testers have a way of submitting issues | 11:45 |
| ogra | so i want the dircet contact to the users during this time | 11:45 |
| LaserJock | argg, ok, just a sec | 11:46 |
| RichEd | would it make sense to have a person who coordinates testing | 11:46 |
| RichEd | ? | 11:46 |
| LaserJock | in the second section we should have a "call for testing" which is go to the testing website, etc. | 11:46 |
| LaserJock | then users should be also able to report problems | 11:46 |
| pips1 | RichEd, testers are normally people who are already "half way" in-between users/newbies and developers/contributors | 11:46 |
| ogra | RichEd, stgraber and heno do that already | 11:47 |
| pips1 | RichEd: so I suppose testers will attend both anyway... | 11:47 |
| ogra | RichEd, testing plans should be outlined in the specs already | 11:47 |
| LaserJock | hmm, I think we should focus on the topics rather than the people here | 11:47 |
| ogra | we should see that we have this in gutsy+1 | 11:47 |
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| LaserJock | people should come and go whenever | 11:47 |
| LaserJock | the point is to group like topics to make it easier for people and to keep things to a sane time limit | 11:48 |
| RichEd | ogra: do the testers fill out a test plan status on the wiki somwhere ... or via email ? | 11:48 |
| ogra | https://isotesting.stgraber.org/ | 11:48 |
| LaserJock | and considering that we usually have <10 people show up to meetings, I don't think we need to put so much effort into this, tbh | 11:49 |
| ogra | https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/isotesting/build/Edubuntu is our piece of the pie there | 11:49 |
| pips1 | testers for edubuntu (besides ogra, of course) have been 1-3 people in the past... | 11:50 |
| pips1 | no? | 11:50 |
| ogra | yep | 11:50 |
| RichEd | well would we be able to swell those numbers if the process became easier to understand and more accessible ? | 11:51 |
| RichEd | back to the bite size chunks theory | 11:51 |
| ogra | i dont think so | 11:51 |
| LaserJock | not really | 11:51 |
| LaserJock | the process is already pretty darn easy | 11:51 |
| pips1 | and generally, if somebody decides to do testing for a certain release, they will commit to do their testing seriously, at least during "crunch time" | 11:51 |
| ogra | you need the will to test ... there are no process changes that can change that | 11:51 |
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| ogra | motivating more people to get more and faster test results would be cool though | 11:52 |
| ogra | but tat lies in the advertisement realm ... not in the process | 11:52 |
| pips1 | I think people decided to do some testing for a certain release, because they want to deploy that release or some reason, but then they might not do testing for the next release, but perhaps a later one further down the line... | 11:53 |
| ogra | right | 11:53 |
| ogra | as LaserJock said, people come and go | 11:54 |
| RichEd | okay ... getting late and my battery is running down ... can i suggest that we ask LaserJock to do a wiki page with his agenda views ... and i'll add my 2c and so can anyone else ... | 11:55 |
| pips1 | I agree with ogra that it would be cool do have more people to do testing towards the end of the cycle... even just having 5-10 people testing one education app each would be great... | 11:55 |
| ogra | if he likes to :) | 11:55 |
| ogra | pips1, yep, but thats neeeds more noise in the wild | 11:55 |
| RichEd | i'm happy to take the mail laser sent and extract that onto a wiki page | 11:55 |
| LaserJock | I'll do it, but I expect people to put in their $0.02USD | 11:56 |
| RichEd | and we can send each agenda to the mailing list(s) for comment | 11:56 |
| LaserJock | RichEd: I'd rather go from what we've discussed and redo. that email was a little ...scattered ;-) | 11:56 |
| RichEd | and agree on a loose plan next week ... which we can test for the rest of july | 11:56 |
| ogra | LaserJock, i'd only have 0.02 .... but thats worth more :) | 11:56 |
| LaserJock | ogra: I'll take it | 11:56 |
| ogra | :) | 11:56 |
| pips1 | I think we already have quite a bit of common ground | 11:57 |
| RichEd | i think mailing an invite to the mail lists got a few more people to attend tonight ... so if we keep up the noise and debate ... hopefully we'll attract more spectators | 11:57 |
| LaserJock | BLOG | 11:57 |
| ogra | ++ | 11:57 |
| RichEd | and then we convert the spectators into playas | 11:57 |
| LaserJock | it's amazing how many people read Planet Ubuntu | 11:57 |
| LaserJock | and I can probably do some Fridge action as well | 11:57 |
| cliebow_ | tell me..ill be there | 11:58 |
| ogra | i did that back in breezy and dapper time (mailing announcements) ... somehow it grew over my head | 11:58 |
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| LaserJock | yeah | 11:58 |
| LaserJock | we just need a secretary for ogra | 11:58 |
| RichEd | right ... pumpkin' time for me ... 12 bells about to strike ... | 11:58 |
| ogra | RichEd, EC ? | 11:58 |
| ogra | we need three memebers to approve ppl | 11:59 |
| RichEd | anyone here who has applied for edubuntu-members ? | 11:59 |
| pips1 | 1. ca. 30 mins *tight dev status report* plus 15-30 mins "reserve" dev (including testing stuff in testing crunch time) 2. newbie friendly stuff (We should really find a way to tackle the "bite size" idea that LaserJock has been talking about for ages ;-) | 11:59 |
| ogra | RichEd, seems not ... | 11:59 |
| ogra | sooo .... | 12:00 |
| LaserJock | email the people that have email address in LP | 12:00 |
| ogra | going once | 12:00 |
| ogra | LaserJock, i thought that happened .... | 12:00 |
| LaserJock | and reject those that don't with a message that they need to contact us | 12:00 |
| ogra | going twice | 12:00 |
| RichEd | ogra: we get a lot of applicants for edubuntu-members via LP ... who we have never met in IRC or email | 12:00 |
| LaserJock | I didn't know if it did or not, I thought perhaps not? | 12:00 |
| RichEd | should we better explain somewhere (in LP) what is needed / expected ? | 12:00 |
| ogra | yes, but we need the CC for that | 12:01 |
| ogra | EC is owned by CC IIRC :) | 12:01 |
| ogra | damned, found no acronym for is owned :P | 12:01 |
| === highvoltage [n=highvolt@broadband-196-1-61-45.amobia.co.za] has joined #edubuntu | ||
| pips1 | hehe | 12:02 |
| pips1 | hey highvoltage | 12:02 |
| ogra | anyway, lets finish this meeting officially now :) | 12:02 |
| === RichEd is confused again ... what group does the EC approve ? | ||
| ogra | RichEd, edubuntu members | 12:02 |
| ogra | which are a part of ubuntu members | 12:02 |
| ogra | the kubuntu council approves kubuntu members | 12:03 |
| ogra | which are as well a part of ubuntu members | 12:03 |
| RichEd | and to recap ... we said that edubuntu (the group) was reduntant | 12:03 |
| RichEd | ? | 12:03 |
| ogra | ubuntu members are owned by the CC | 12:03 |
| ogra | right | 12:03 |
| RichEd | and i'm happy to close on that note ... | 12:03 |
| RichEd | goin thrice | 12:03 |
| RichEd | BOING | 12:03 |
| RichEd | thanks ... | 12:04 |
| ogra | \o_ | 12:04 |
| RichEd | LaserJock: i'll mail you a wiki page for the agenda | 12:04 |
| pips1 | RichEd: when can I catch you on IRC in the next days? | 12:04 |
| === ogra cant lift the left arm ... to tired already | ||
| RichEd | pips1: i'll be around tomorrow ... if my head-cold goes away tonight ... | 12:04 |
| RichEd | even if i am in away mode, i | 12:05 |
| RichEd | 'll check for pings | 12:05 |
| pips1 | ok, I'll try to catch you tomorrow, then. Sleep well! | 12:05 |
| RichEd | night all | 12:05 |
| ogra | night | 12:05 |
| === ogra goes as well | ||
| === miguelon [n=migsol@201.230.187.30] has joined #edubuntu | ||
| LaserJock | RichEd: ok, thanks | 12:06 |
| === miguelon [n=migsol@201.230.187.30] has joined #edubuntu | ||
| === jinty [n=jinty@221.Red-83-56-141.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #edubuntu | ||
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