[12:13] <munckfish> asac: I don't know in terms of /etc/networks/interfaces but that's what they're marked as in  the gnome network tool
[12:14] <munckfish> by being marked as 'auto' I guess
[12:14] <munckfish> I'm trying to look at the ifupdown source
[12:14] <munckfish> noweb is blocking me at the moment ...
[12:14] <asac> munckfish: its still intended
[12:15] <munckfish> asac: what do you mean?
[12:15] <asac> personally i would prefer to not use network manager for all auto marked interface entry
[12:15] <asac> e.g. the other way around
[12:16] <asac> munckfish: try to comment every interface you want to use with network manager out in /etc/network/interfaces
[12:16] <asac> munckfish: let me know if that brings you a more "as-expected" behaviour
[12:16] <munckfish> asac: I've already done that
[12:16] <munckfish> doing that makes the problem go away
[12:17] <munckfish> cause then ifupdown is not run on it by the networking init script
[12:17] <asac> please ensure that you really see the problem
[12:17] <asac> in gutsy
[12:17] <asac> I still think that it should be fixed
[12:18] <munckfish> ok, I'll repeat my test
[12:18] <munckfish> although I'm limited by not being in a position to install gutsy on the hd yet
[12:31] <munckfish> ok asac (and others) thx for you time
[12:31] <munckfish> your time
[01:08] <Keybuk> keescook: ok, interesting, we'll debug further tomorrow if you like
[01:22] <keescook> tepsipakki: say, can you take a look at xscreensaver?  Looks like debian went to version 5 just recently.
[01:42] <shaya> anyone know if the gtk2.0 issue in openoffice, acroread... was fixed?
[01:43] <keescook> shaya: which issue do you mean?
[01:45] <shaya> that they crash on startup :)
[01:47] <ScottK> I'm still having the problem.
[01:47] <ScottK> IIRC it turned out not to be gtk2.0
[01:47] <ScottK> calc is getting close to uploading OOO 2.3 and it's fixed there.
[01:48] <calc> ScottK: yea, working as fast as i can :\
[01:48] <calc> ScottK: it appears gcj is still broken on using all available memory which is slowing me down a bit
[01:49] <J-Unit> it's not supposed to do that?
[01:49] <J-Unit> must not be using it right then :)
[01:49] <calc> J-Unit: heh no its not supposed to use all ram, heh
[01:49] <J-Unit> funny... I've always been under that impression
[01:49] <J-Unit> and it trips PaX too
[01:49] <J-Unit> grr
[01:51] <calc> i'm not talking about openoffice here, gcj while compiling uses up all ram and dies
[01:51] <calc> i think its normal for openoffice to use huge amounts of ram :(
[01:53] <Skiessi> can someone put a bookmarks or favourites -menu to x-chat?
[01:53] <Skiessi> *make
[01:54] <coNP> Skiessi: what kind of bookmarks do you mean? For channels?
[01:54] <Skiessi> yeah
[02:09] <cheeseboy> any of you ever install ubuntu from pendrive?
[02:10] <ScottK> cheeseboy: I think you want #ubuntu
[02:10] <cheeseboy> ScottK no one has figured u guys might know more
[02:11] <ScottK> It's OT for this channel.  Google is your friend.
[02:12] <cheeseboy> i have googled
[02:12] <cheeseboy> :(
[02:14] <ScottK> Hang on, I'll point you.
[02:17] <ScottK> cheeseboy: http://forums.hardwareguys.com/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=5353
[02:17] <ScottK> The people there are very nice if you have questions too.
[02:24] <bryce> keescook: btw, you were asking about iceauth and ico earlier today - I've just posted them to http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Uploads/.  Would you like to push uploads of them?
[02:24] <keescook> bryce: sure thing, thanks.
[02:28] <keescook> bryce: which ico do i want?
[02:28] <bryce> keescook: btw, fyi, going forward (maybe Gutsy, but definitely Gutsy+1) pretty much all the x apps are going to get dropped in favor of using Debian-X's x11-apps and x11-utils combo packages.  So if there are things to be patched in these packages, we'll also want to push them into those packages
[02:29] <keescook> bryce: noted. I just wanted them rebuilt, is all.  :)
[02:29] <bryce> oops, should be clarified now
[02:30] <bryce> (1.0.2-0ubuntu1 is what we want)
[02:31] <StevenK> doko: Hrm. I missed that, sorry.
[02:32] <StevenK> doko: Do you need me to fix it?
[02:32] <keescook> bryce: rockin'.  they're uploaded now; thanks!
[02:32] <bryce> kewl, thanks :-)
[02:36] <doko> StevenK: no, updated. but that's a bad miss.
[02:37] <StevenK> doko: Indeed. :-(
[02:37] <StevenK> doko: Consider me suitably chastised.
[02:40] <Chipzz> bryce: too bad :S
[02:41] <Chipzz> I actually liked the split X apps
[02:41] <bryce> Chipzz: yeah me too, but the added overhead of maintaining them separately doesn't seem to be worth it
[02:42] <Chipzz> bryce: added overhead? they're seperate modules in X cvs... putting them together, *that* is overhead...
[02:43] <bryce> no, the ubuntu overhead over debian
[02:43] <Chipzz> or do you mean seperate from debian?
[02:44] <bryce> going with the debian combos will let us mostly auto-sync from Debian, whereas the split out packages would require me to continually to personally download and merge them
[02:44] <bryce> I don't mind, and they go pretty quick, but it is time I could put to better use working on bugs or something
[02:44] <Chipzz> looks like trivial packaging to me?
[02:44] <bryce> yup
[02:46] <bryce> but even at 15 min each, when you add it up for all of the apps, it makes for a non-trivial amount of time
[02:46] <Chipzz> and you're pulling in a dependency on libxaw just because some of them still use it, and you want some other util that doesn't
[02:47] <Chipzz> what's with that toolkit anyway? :P
[02:48] <bryce> luv athena mmm
[02:48] <Chipzz> ? :)
[02:49] <Chipzz> the thing is so ugly ven its own mother couldn't possibly love it :P
[02:50] <bryce> the point that sold me is that apparently fedora uses this same packaging model
[02:50] <bryce> so how can one argue against consistency?  ;-)
[02:53] <ScottK> bryce: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/ralphwaldo136909.html
[02:55] <bryce> ScottK, but I like hobgoblins.  :-)
[02:56] <ScottK> OK, well you asked who.  That's one person.
[02:57] <bryce> very true.  Of course he ended up in jail, though.
[02:58] <ScottK> You say that like it's bad or something.
[02:59] <jono> http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=1008
[06:48] <calc> yuck
[06:48] <calc> i have 963 line diff to merge still
[07:48] <pitti> Good morning
[07:57] <pitwalker> Good morning from Hungary.
[08:21] <Mithrandir> keescook: apparmor needs apxs to build?
[09:02] <Tonio_> pitti: hey
[09:02] <pitti> hi Tonio_
[09:02] <Tonio_> pitti: I was thinking about hidd support in bluez
[09:02] <Tonio_> pitti: is there any reason it isn't enabled by default ?
[09:02] <Tonio_> pitti: that makes it very complicated to connect a bluetooth mouse for example
[09:02] <Hobbsee> gutten morgen Tonio_, pitti
[09:03] <pitti> Hobbsee! Wie gehts?
[09:03] <Hobbsee> pitti: but you're supposed to know everything!
[09:03] <StevenK> Oh, I love where NBS stuff leads me.
[09:03] <Tonio_> bonjour demoiselle Hobbsee
[09:03] <Hobbsee> pitti: gut, danke :)
[09:03] <pitti> Tonio_: "ma"demoiselle?
[09:03] <Tonio_> pitti: you can say both
[09:04] <Tonio_> you even can say dAmoiselle
[09:04] <pitti> Je ne parlez pas francais :(
[09:04] <Tonio_> pitti: hehe
[09:04] <pitti> StevenK: trouble?
[09:04] <Tonio_> pitti: so to make it clear, enabling hidd support doesn't change anything for the initial connection, but makes it possible to autoreconnect the device automatically
[09:05] <Tonio_> pitti: so that you just have to connect it once and it'll work forever
[09:05] <Tonio_> pitti: I think that should be enabled by default
[09:05] <pitti> Tonio_: sure
[09:05] <StevenK> sdcc build deps on two old lyx packages, but the new lyx SEGVs when building the docs for sdcc.
[09:05] <pitti> Tonio_: is that a new system daemon?
[09:05] <Tonio_> pitti: oki, I'll fix the bluez-utils packaging then
[09:06] <Tonio_> pitti: no it is there for years :)
[09:06] <Tonio_> pitti: hidd is to manage connection of bluetooth control periphericals, like mice and keyboards
[09:06] <pitti> Tonio_: I mean, will this change cause a new systme daemon to run? or is it only in the user's session?
[09:06] <Tonio_> pitti: hum, lemme check
[09:07] <Tonio_> pitti: yep, hidd will then run
[09:07] <StevenK> pitti: Not sure, at this point I'm trying to figure out if upstream has fixed it.
[09:13] <Mithrandir> Tonio_: if you're touching bluez-utils, please also merge with Debian and put in the new upstream version, or wait until I've done so.
[09:14] <Hobbsee> hey!
[09:14] <Mithrandir> :-D
[09:14] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: I've packaged latest upstream release yesterday
[09:15] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: I was waiting for dholbach to let him give his opinion
[09:15] <Mithrandir> did you merge with Debian too?
[09:15] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: I also wanted to sync with debian as there are significant changes required for the new kdebluetooth to work
[09:15] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: not yet, but I expect to
[09:15] <Hobbsee> oh wait.  it's summer there.  i wouldnt drown.
[09:16] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: "summer".
[09:16] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: yeah, well.  nothing like au summer
[09:16] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: btw lots of things need to be changed in the debian packaging to work against dbus bluetooth interface....
[09:16] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: that's why I first packaged on my own to make it to work
[09:16] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: is dholbach in vacation ?
[09:16] <Mithrandir> yes, he's on vacation
[09:16] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: yes
[09:17] <Mithrandir> what are you suggesting needs changing?
[09:17] <Mithrandir> most of it just worked fine for me.
[09:17] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: enabling input and serial build options
[09:17] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: otherwise you will not output the .service files required by kdebluetooth
[09:18] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: also the horrible patching to make it to work with the current kdebluetooth is now gone, which is a good point
[09:18] <Mithrandir> the pin mangling, you mean?
[09:18] <Mithrandir> that's good
[09:19] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: yep
[09:19] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: http://paste.tonio.homelinux.org/375
[09:19] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: here is the changelog
[09:20] <Mithrandir> I wouldn't call adding two flags to configure "a lot of changes". :-P
[09:22] <Tonio_> hum, true, that's not a "that big" change :)
[09:22] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: consider I just woke up ;)
[09:22] <Mithrandir> sure, so did I. ;-)
[09:22] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: would you agree on rationale ?
[09:22] <Mithrandir> anyway, if you don't mind, I'll just grab what you have into my not-yet-uploaded merge and upload that
[09:23] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: I'm unsure concerning the hidd enabled by default, but I think that's important for a friendly desktop approach
[09:23] <Mithrandir> sure, making kbluetooth work is a worthy goal.  I don't use kde myself, so you'll have to make sure the K end of the world looks right.
[09:23] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: sure
[09:23] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: you can get the source packages there : http://ubuntu.tonio.homelinux.org
[09:23] <Mithrandir> what's the reason for not enabling hidd by default?
[09:24] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: dunno, that's why I changed that in the config file :)
[09:24] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: the only difference is that an already manually connected device will auto-reconnect.....
[09:24] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: the reason can be that is causes another daemon to run...
[09:25] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: source dir (might be easier for you) http://ubuntu.tonio.homelinux.org/dists/gutsy/main/source/
[09:26] <Tonio_> except bluez-utils, other packages don't have any change in it, I just sync with upstream version and that's it
[09:26] <Mithrandir> the joy of doing four-way merges without revision control. :-/
[09:26] <Mithrandir> (base, ubuntu, your, mine, debian).  Five-way.
[09:26] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: yeah I know that's what we try to avoid for kde packages at least.....
[09:28] <pitti> jamesh: thanks for your 'bzr bundles' intro on planet; this is amazing
[09:42] <jamesh> pitti: Bazaar has all kinds of cool features
[09:45] <infinity> jamesh: The biggest revelation there to me was the "lp:project" shorthand.  I didn't know about that.
[09:46] <jamesh> infinity: there are a number of useful features in Bazaar's launchpad plugin (hopefully we'll get more in future)
[09:46] <infinity> jamesh: I'm going to assume that lp:foo uses http...?  Is there a shorthand for bzr+ssh or sftp, so I can actually co and ci? :)
[09:47] <jamesh> infinity: not at present.
[09:47] <infinity> jamesh: Ahh, then it just became useless to me again.  Still, cool feature. :)
[09:47] <jamesh> infinity: it basically just converts lp:foo to "https://launchpad.net/foo", which pretends to be a Bazaar branch reference
[09:47] <infinity> (Easy come, easy go)
[09:48] <jamesh> see e.g. https://launchpad.net/upstart/.bzr/branch/location
[09:48] <jamesh> we could probably change that in the future
[09:48] <infinity> jamesh: Hey, speaking of URL shortcutting, who should I whine to about "bugs.lp.net/12345" no longer redirecting to bug numbers (I'm sure it used to, way back when...)
[09:49] <jamesh> since you can use bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/... to access all branches now -- not just ones you can write to
[09:49] <pitti> jamesh: same for me, lp:foo was new; however, how does that select a particular branch?
[09:49] <infinity> Oh, wait, it's lp.net/bugs/12345 that redirects, and it still does.  It just never got implemented at the root level of the shiny new subdomain.
[09:49] <jamesh> infinity: I don't think it ever did that.  maybe you were thinking of lp.net/bugs/NNNN?
[09:49] <pitti> jamesh: I tried lp:apport, and that seems to select the 'ubuntu' branch; how to select e. g. the 'feisty' one?
[09:50] <jamesh> pitti: each project has a "development focus" release series, and each series can have a branch associated with it
[09:50] <infinity> jamesh: Yeah.  When the subdomain happened, I think my brain just assumed the redirect-fu would keep working intuitively.  I was obviously wrong. :)
[09:50] <jamesh> pitti: so the "project's branch" is the "project's development focus's branch"
[09:51] <pitti> jamesh: aha; that's the first branch ever created? or can that be configured somehow?
[09:52] <jamesh> pitti: you can pick which release series is the development focus on the project's "change details" form, and you can change the series' branch on the series' "change details" form./
[09:52] <jamesh> pitti: by default release series don't have a branch set
[09:52] <pitti> ah, thanks a lot
[09:59] <Gasten> If there is a problem with planet.ubuntu.com, who should I talk too?
[10:03] <pitti> Mithrandir, infinity: any idea why apache2 does that:         dh_strip -a --dbg-package=apache2-dbg -Napache2-mpm-worker -Napache2-mpm-event -Napache2-mpm-prefork -Napache2-dbg
[10:04] <Mithrandir> pitti: unsure.
[10:05] <infinity> pitti: It strips the MPM packages elsewhere.
[10:06] <infinity> pitti: It's a bit special, because it installs three sets of symbols for /usr/sbin/apache2 to apache2-dbg, which requires some sketchy trickery.
[10:07] <pitti> ah; I just spotted it while debugging the current FTBFS with pkg-create-dbgsym
[10:07] <infinity> pitti: (Note: I had nothing to do with this, I just knew it was being done and I'm looking at it in SVN right now and marvelling at the bizarre implementation thereof)
[10:08] <infinity> pitti: Given that we have the whole dbgsym thing, it might just be less effort to change the Ubuntu build to not do the apache2-dbg thing...
[10:09] <infinity> pitti: If it's causing you serious grief.
[10:09] <pitti> infinity: depends; I actually want to make pkg-create-dbgsym more robust against such things
[10:09] <infinity> pitti: debian/rules already special-cases "`lsb_release -i -s`" = "Ubuntu" elsewheere anyway.
[10:09] <pitti> we had similar problems with that in the past, so I have an idea how to fix that once and for all
[10:09] <infinity> pitti: Well, if you're viewing it as a challenge, by all means, fix your scripts. :)
[10:10] <pitti> oooh, I see
[10:10] <pitti> infinity: so it manually calls objcopy --add-gnu-debuglink after calling dh_strip
[10:11] <pitti> now, that's doomed to fail
[10:11] <pitti> there's no way how p-c-d can anticipate that and not already do it on its own
[10:11] <infinity> Heh.
[10:11] <infinity> I'll just drop the debug package on Ubuntu then. :)
[10:12] <infinity> Seems like less headache.
[10:12] <pitti> infinity: yeah
[10:12] <pitti> infinity: if only debian/control would support #if lsb_release... :-)
[10:12] <infinity> I'd do it with a Distribution: header.
[10:12] <pitti> infinity: so I guess we actually have to keep an Ubuntu modification
[10:13] <infinity> (I should file a bug about that)
[10:13] <pitti> wow, that works?
[10:13] <infinity> No, I mean, "if I were writing the feature".
[10:13] <pitti> ah
[10:13] <infinity> But, there's no law against having stuff in debian/control and not building the packages. :P
[10:13] <infinity> I'll make it work.
[10:13] <pitti> so, shall I change apache2 here? or do you insist doing it yourself?
[10:14] <pitti> infinity: dh_* -a will copy stuff to it, such as the changelog, right?
[10:14] <infinity> You can mangle it if you like, but I do insist on having it upstream eventually, because I've put enough effort into making Debian and Ubuntu not fork apache2 at this point, I don't want that to go to waste. :)
[10:14] <pitti> infinity: oh, sure; muchly appreciated :)
[10:14] <infinity> Yeah, dh_* will create a package directory.  Not hard to undo that.  Ugly, but not hard.
[10:15] <infinity> Pretty much just rm -rf debian/apache2-dbg right before the dh_builddeb call should do it. :P
[10:15] <infinity> (Yay, hammer)
[10:16] <infinity> (And, of course, case out all the hackery above that, and case the dh_strip call to actually strip stuff on Ubuntu)
[10:16] <infinity> So... 4 or 5 line diff, tops.
[10:16] <pitti> ok, I'll try to come up with something
[10:16] <infinity> After having explaied it, I can do it in about 20 seconds.
[10:17] <infinity> Shall I?
[10:17] <infinity> (IRC: The Ultimate Software Specification Tool)
[10:17] <pitti> infinity: sure, let's race :)
[10:18] <infinity> Hye, no fair, I was waiting for you to say "go". :P
[10:25] <infinity> pitti: The shortest debdiff (obviously it should be cleaner and not run lsb_release 30 times in the build) that illustrates the point is: http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/apache2-mangle.diff
[10:25] <infinity> pitti: It may even work. :P
[10:26] <pitti> infinity: with s/if if/if/, it might :-)
[10:26] <infinity> Close enough. :P
[10:26] <pitti> infinity: yep, my current version looks much similar
[10:26] <infinity> dh_builddeb may also need a -napache2-dbg
[10:26] <infinity> Hard to say without testing.
[10:27] <pitti> currently building the third time
[10:27] <infinity> -N even.
[10:27] <pitti> my previous attempt complained about the missing dir, so I guess -N is necessary
[10:28] <infinity> Right, well if the general theory works and it seems to produce correct binaries (and fix your issues), I'll commit it to the Debian SVN so it doesn't get lost.
[10:29] <pitti> dpkg-deb: Konnte Paket-Infodatei debian/apache2-dbg/DEBIAN/control nicht zum Lesen ffnen: No such file or directory
[10:29] <pitti> bah
[10:30] <pitti> ok, -N this time
[10:30] <infinity> Serves you right for being German.
[10:32] <StevenK> infinity: libnss-db. Or openssl. Take your pick. :-P
[10:32] <pitti> infinity: your favourite bitching Steve is back :-P
[10:32] <StevenK> Awww
[10:32] <pitti> infinity: it ... built!
[10:33] <infinity> pitti: That's a start.
[10:34] <pitti> infinity: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/apache2.FTBFS.debdiff
[10:34] <infinity> pitti: That looks awfully familiar. ;)
[10:35] <infinity> pitti: I'm going to turn the lsb_release call into a variable assignment in debian/rules to make that less ugly, but I'll commit pretty much exactly that change upstream.
[10:35] <infinity> pitti: Feel free to upload that to Ubuntu, though.  Looks sane.
[10:35] <infinity> Well, "sane".
[10:35] <pitti> infinity: thanks
[10:35] <pitti> well, looks hackish, but makes it build at last
[10:35] <infinity> That entire rules file looks hackish, what's one more?
[10:36] <pitti> infinity: ok, if you don't want to upload that to Debian soonish, I'll do the Maintainer: stuff and upload
[10:37] <infinity> pitti: Well, an upload to Debian just for an Ubuntu change is a bit sketchy, and I don't have the time to fix any other bugs right now to justify an upload. :)
[10:37] <pitti> right
[10:38] <infinity> pitti: Given that it's a "backport" from Debian SVN, though, I don't know if the Maintainer change is justified. :)
[10:38] <infinity> pitti: (I'm a bit fuzzy on that, really)
[10:38] <Fujitsu> Can't you convince Debian that picking up lpia would be a Good Thing?
[10:38] <pitti> infinity: we'll sync it again on next opportunity anyway *shrug*
[10:39] <infinity> Fujitsu: What motivation would they have to build lpia?
[10:39] <Fujitsu> They seem to build a lot of other obscure architectures.
[10:39] <infinity> Fujitsu: It's not so much an arch as a platform.
[10:39] <infinity> Fujitsu: We'll be hacking source packages to do different things on lpia, etc.
[10:40] <infinity> Fujitsu: Our version of that platform will actually get used (hence the motivation), them mirroring those changes and that platform would likely be pointless.
[10:40] <Fujitsu> True, true.
[10:41] <infinity> Building for as many CPU arches as possible is wickedly cool (and something I hope Debian never stops doing), but building 15 versions of x86 is kinda pointless unless you have a target audience for it.
[10:43] <infinity> pitti: Hrm, actually, there is a pending upload with one change...
[10:47] <Mithrandir> their motivation would be "less delta to Ubuntu"
[10:48] <Fujitsu> Isn't that just motivation to complain about us, rather than merge from us?
[10:58] <cjwatson> (hey, Debian dpkg supports it ...)
[11:16] <oni_> re
[11:36] <asac> Riddell: look in NEW please :)
[11:40] <Riddell> asac: looking
[11:47] <asac> Riddell:    * debian/copyright: add info about other-licenses/branding
[11:49] <Riddell> asac: meh, it still misses the other parts of other-licences
[11:49] <asac> he?
[11:50] <Riddell> the 7zstub   bsdiff  libart_lgpl directories all come under other licences which I don't think are mentioned in the debian/copyright
[11:51] <Riddell> especially that "BSD Protection License" is weird and non standard
[11:51] <Riddell> asac: could I ask you to upload again with debian/copyright pointing to the (L)GPL used for those directories and a full copy of that "BSD Protection License"
[11:52] <pitti> mvo_: the current notification bubbles look very dark gray and ugly...
[11:53] <stgraber> indeed :)
[11:57] <asac> Riddell: sure
[11:57] <asac> Riddell: its currently breeding
[11:58] <stgraber> asac: Any progress on that weird wpa_supplicant thing ?
[11:58] <asac> stgraber: i have been waiting for you to return :)
[11:59] <asac> stgraber: can you get back to the state where wpa_supplicant takes ages to connect?
[11:59] <asac> but succeeds?
[11:59] <asac> stgraber: and try the workaround in http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=492386&page=3
[11:59] <asac> e.g. where he restarts the ipwXXXd
[11:59] <stgraber> sure
[12:00] <asac> cool
[12:00] <stgraber> asac: well, I'm not at home till Saturday but I can test some stuff here anyway
[12:01] <pitti> infinity: argh, argh
[12:01] <infinity> pitti: ...?
[12:01] <pitti> infinity: apache2 ftbfs'es on dpkg-genchanges; I only did debian/rules binary before
[12:01] <pitti> infinity: rm'ing debian/apache2-dbg is no good, it seems
[12:02] <stgraber> asac: I doubt it'd change anything to reload ipw3945d as that's what I did before each test with wpa_supplicant (kill ipw3945d, reload the driver, check that ipw3945d is correctly running)
[12:02] <Mithrandir> you need to make it not part of the files list too, I suspect
[12:02] <pitti> yeah
[12:02] <Mithrandir> just make it build-depend on moreutils and do grep -v apache2-dbg debian/files | sponge debian/files
[12:02] <infinity> Indeed.
[12:02] <asac> anyone can approve enigmail SRU for dapper/edgy/feisty -proposed?
[12:03] <pitti> Mithrandir: oh, I had used sed -i
[12:03] <infinity> Somehow, I don't think sponge is needed there. :)
[12:03] <mvo_> pitti: that must be a side-effect of the new gtk, I have a look
[12:03] <infinity> (Though it's cool)
[12:03] <cjwatson> moreutils++
[12:03] <Mithrandir> pitti: that doesn't delete blank lines, does it?  But maybe dpkg-genchanges doesn't care about those?
[12:03] <Mithrandir> I still need to submit my addtimings thing upstream.
[12:03] <pitti> sed '/apache2-dbg/d' debian/files
[12:03] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: sed -i '/apache2-dbg/d' would
[12:04] <infinity> Alternately, figure out which dh_* is adding it, and call it with -Nfoo...
[12:04] <infinity> _gencontrol?
[12:04] <cjwatson> s'what DH_VERBOSE=1 is forr
[12:04] <cjwatson> for
[12:04] <infinity> (I would have thought _builddeb, but clearly not)
[12:05] <stgraber> asac: this guy should also better do : "ipw3945d-`uname -r` --kill" which would do both the "ps aux | kill" and the rm at the same time
[12:05] <asac> stgraber: well ... try what happens if you kill it while connecting
[12:06] <asac> stgraber: the next thing i would try is to give wpasupplicant all the needed hints (like what you set in wpa_supplicant.conf) and use ap_scan 2 instead
[12:06] <asac> if that boosts things we should try forcefully use ap_scan 2 when ipw3xxx driver
[12:07] <stgraber> asac: ok, I put everything in my todolist and test that once my WiFi internet time is over, IIRC I tried with ap_scan 2 and it was even longer, but I'll give it another try
[12:08] <infinity> cjwatson: I love you.  I learn something new about sed so infrequently these days...
[12:08] <pitti> meh, bzr constantly crashing on broken pipes with 'bzr log|less' is annoying; it didn't do that in the past, did it?
[12:09] <asac> stgraber: well ap_scan 2 needs all infos ... iirc it didn't connect at all when we tried last time
[12:12] <stgraber> asac: can you just give me the three wpa_supplicant and wpa_cli commands again ?
[12:12] <asac> hehe
[12:12] <asac> well ... it all starts with hmmm
[12:12] <stgraber> btw, I can still get them from the chan logs :)
[12:13] <asac> sudo wpa_supplicant -dd -g /var/run/wpa_supplicant.global
[12:13] <asac> stgraber: really ... can you add those command to some wpa_supplicant manual wiki page?
[12:13] <cjwatson> infinity: actually learning awk properly will be my next challenge, I think
[12:14] <cjwatson> I never really have - skipped straight from sed to perl
[12:14] <infinity> cjwatson: That was on my TODO for a long time until I started feeling it was just wasted effort.
[12:16] <asac> Riddell: i think it should be up now
[12:16] <soren> Grrr....
[12:21] <pitti> infinity: fixed for good now (sorry), http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/apache2.FTBFS.debdiff is the updated diff
[12:23] <Mithrandir> Tonio_: any reason to just enable --enable-serial and --enable-inputand not, say, --enable-audio ?
[12:23] <infinity> pitti: The only change being "+sed -i '/apache2-dbg/d' debian/files; \", I assume?
[12:24] <pitti> infinity: yep
[12:24] <infinity> pitti: (I'd already committed my previous changes)
[12:25] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: cause I didn't want to change to many things, and kdebluetooth doesn't need audio to be enabled :)
[12:25] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: btw I don't see any technical reason not to enable it too ;)
[12:26] <Tonio_> Riddell, pitti: wrote a mir for obexftp, needed by new kdebluetooth. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportObexftp
[12:26] <infinity> pitti: Thanks for that.
[12:26] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: better enable audio too, more functionnalities are never bad
[12:26] <Mithrandir> Tonio_: ok; I'm asking on #bluez now.
[12:27] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: oki
[12:28] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: I suspect this is to connect to bluetooth headphones.... might be possible graphically with kdebluetooth in the future
[12:29] <Mithrandir> Tonio_: yeah, that's what I figured.
[12:29] <doko> StevenK: ping
[12:30] <Mithrandir> (I'm not interested in kdebluetooth, but rather the gnomy bits.)
[12:32] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: I didn't package the latest bluez-gnome btw, so if you don't I may ping dholbach when back
[12:34] <Mithrandir> Tonio_: I uploaded that yesterday
[12:35] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: great
[12:35] <stgraber> asac: Do you know how the wpa_supplicant ssid is generated from the MAC ?
[12:41] <asac> just hex?
[12:41] <Mithrandir> pitti: do you prefer us to turn on pie support if available?
[12:41] <asac> stgraber: why?
[12:43] <pitti> Mithrandir: yes, oh yes!
[12:43] <stgraber> asac: nope, NM send 6772616265722d77696669 for 00:14:D1:C0:39:80
[12:44] <asac> thats bssid?
[12:44] <pitti> Mithrandir: still remember that (arguably short) discussion on u-devel@ how to enaable such things globally?
[12:44] <asac> stgraber: anyway ... try to use plain text for testing
[12:44] <asac> stgraber: i doubt that this converesion is the problem for us
[12:44] <Mithrandir> pitti: bluez-utils has an --enable-pie flag to configure.
[12:45] <Riddell> asac: does the file in bsdiff get linked into GPL/MPL code?
[12:45] <pitti> Mithrandir: since the current gutsy kernel now has proper randomization and /proc/pid/maps protection, PIE makes sense and is a helpful stopgap measure against standard exploits
[12:46] <stgraber> asac: Is the ESSID supposed to work with "ap_scan 2" ? (According to the doc it simply connects to the given SSID without any scanning)
[12:46] <asac> stgraber: set essid + bssid
[12:46] <asac> you need all set afaik
[12:46] <stgraber> ok
[12:47] <asac> in wpasupplicant, essid == ssid iirc
[12:48] <asac> stgraber: you need to set keymgmt et al as well
[12:49] <asac> stgraber: i guess those that you see in /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/examples/wpa-psk-tkip.conf
[12:50] <stgraber> ok, I'll simulate a WPA network this afternoon with a laptop and try connecting to it with the other one :), I'll ping you with the result tomorrow
[12:52] <asac> stgraber: great
[01:08] <norsetto> pitti: sorry about the r-m page, I should have known better it belonged to the system-utility section :-(
[01:12] <pitti> norsetto: no problem at all :)
[01:13] <Riddell> asac: so hmm, #soyuz is somewhat unsure about the bsdiff.c licence and I don't want to let it through if it links to anything with a different licence
[01:13] <Riddell> asac: if it make a standaline binary that's fine but otherwise you probably need to remove it or find an archive admin who is more sure that it's compatible with the other licences
[01:14] <asac> most likely its not used
[01:14] <asac> you can argue its binary garbage?
[01:15] <asac> Riddell: ^^
[01:16] <Riddell> it's what?
[01:16] <infinity> Hahaha.  It's totally firmware. :)
[01:16] <Riddell> hmm
[01:16] <asac> Riddell: its not used
[01:16] <infinity> Problem solved.
[01:16] <asac> Riddell: its just in source package
[01:17] <asac> Riddell: we have a bug open to discuss what todo with mozilla source tree before gutsy
[01:17] <Riddell> ok, that saves some bother then :)
[01:18] <asac> bug 121734
[01:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121734 in thunderbird "orig.tar.gz has binary-only files" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121734
[01:18] <asac> please let it in and we add sunbird to that bug
[01:18] <asac> we have to figure out because there are even binaries without source ... though not used nor shipped for us
[01:19] <asac> read: its a mess ... but we have to find a line for all mozillas imo
[01:19] <asac> Riddell: maybe its good to add comments you have to that bug so we can present mozilla with a list of things that should be improved
[01:20] <infinity> asac: If it wouldn't be asking too much of them, a pure MPL/GPL tarball, with a "random other crap" tarball that could be used as an overlay to distribute the other bits might be nice.
[01:21] <infinity> asac: But that would take finding all the offending files, and mangling their release engineering to produce the two tarballs. :/
[01:21] <Riddell> asac: accepted, it's seb128's archive day so you may want to poke him once it has compiled to let it through binary new
[01:23] <asac> infinity: we have a rather complete list of binary only files in ice* applications for debian
[01:23] <asac> infinity: as we try to clean that tree completely before releasing
[01:23] <asac> infinity: however ... upstream will most likely not like that idea, because those files exist for the sole purpose of making mac/win developers life easier
[01:23] <infinity> asac: That could prove helpful, then, if upstream was willing to listen to the "pretty please, can we have free tarballs?" pleas.
[01:23] <asac> infinity: the idea is to at least ship all sources
[01:24] <asac> infinity: next to binaries ... they have the sources in cvs ... so its just a matter of tarball plumbering
[01:24] <infinity> asac: Hrm, and the "overlay" thing is a bit more of a pain on Windows, since it's slightly less intuitive to unpack two archives over each other with most windows archive tools.
[01:24] <asac> most likely
[01:24] <asac> first step will be to ship all sources i guess
[01:24] <asac> then go for higher means :)
[01:24] <asac> after all they are redoing their build system
[01:25] <asac> so maybe its not worth to tackle it now
[01:25] <asac> Riddell: thanks
[01:25] <infinity> I'm not keen on shafting Windows developers either, TBH.  I suspect a very large portion of firefox users (and bug sumitters) are on Windows, atfter all. :)
[01:26] <asac> well ... i am currently more concerned about whether linux matters at all
[01:26] <infinity> (Yes?)
[01:26] <asac> we have to entangle with other distributors and push in one direction ... otherwise mozilla 2.0 will be messy
[01:26] <asac> (at least i fear that it will become a pita)
[01:27] <infinity> Well, pushing for consistent licensing is something you can usually get all the distributions to agree on, even if they do view Debian as "idealistic".
[01:27] <asac> yeah right :)
[01:27] <infinity> I know I've never had problems pushing license disambiguation and such upstream to RedHat and SuSE projects.
[01:27] <asac> welll suse might be a bit different now :)
[02:03] <StevenK> doko: Pong
[02:04] <doko> StevenK: your curl merge ... in the changelog you say that you did revert your patches, but they are still laying around and are applied?
[02:05] <StevenK> They are?
[02:05] <doko> +       quilt push curl4_syms
[02:06] <StevenK> Yes, I see that.
[02:06] <StevenK> However, the patch basically has no affect whatsoever.
[02:06] <StevenK> effect, damn it all
[02:08] <doko> StevenK: ok, I'll remove that stuff
[02:08] <StevenK> doko: Cool.
[02:12] <Mithrandir> Tonio_: btw, --enable-inputmakes hidd obsolete, I'm told.
[02:14] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: make it obsolete for the binary, yes
[02:14] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: I'm unsure concerning the autoreconnection
[02:14] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: but I may be wrong on that point
[02:14] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: let's not enable it and test
[02:14] <Mithrandir> Tonio_: Marcel Holtmann told me hidd was obsolete if you use --enable-input.  I tend to trust him on bluetooth matters.
[02:14] <Tonio_> I'll do tests with hidd enabled locally and will give you or daniel feedback
[02:15] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: of course we have to trust him :)
[02:15] <seb128> Tonio_: Daniel is on holidays for 3 weeks
[02:15] <Tonio_> seb128: yep I've been told this morning
[02:16] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: let's just not enable hidd and that's it ;)
[02:16] <Tonio_> seems to work here btw
[02:16] <Mithrandir> Tonio_: ok, coolie. :-)
[02:16] <Mithrandir> Tonio_: I was just planning on testing, uploading and then going on VAC. :-P
[02:18] <zul> Mithrandir: but you cant go on vacation ;)
[02:20] <Mithrandir> sure I can
[02:22] <zul> sure you can
[02:24] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: hehe :)
[02:25] <Tonio_> Mithrandir: I'll have to wait a bit to upload kdebluetooth as a MIR approval is required before that
[02:27] <StevenK> pitti: Ping
[02:27] <pitti> hey StevenK
[02:28] <ogra> :q
[02:29] <Amaranth> ogra: you can't quit IRC
[02:29] <ogra> oops, wrong win, sorry
[02:29] <ogra> :)
[02:29] <StevenK> pitti: If and when I fix pdftk to love life, it should the last rdepends for libgcj7, but openoffice.org-officebean is in there on powerpc - since the powerpc built of openoffice.org on the buildds spun idly for 10 hours and was killed by sbuild.
[02:29] <pitti> ogra: :s/focus_xchat/focus_gnome_terminal/g :)
[02:29] <ogra> yeah *g*
[02:29] <bhale> pitti: :%s
[02:29] <StevenK> But what if your IRC is in a Gnome Terminal? :-P
[02:29] <bhale> ooh
[02:29] <pitti> StevenK: right, known; OO.o has never built on ppc so far
[02:30] <pitti> StevenK: let's hope that calc's latest creation of 2.3 packages will again...
[02:30] <bhale> my irssi is in a putty :<
[02:31] <StevenK> bhale: One of my workmates does that, it's very disturbing.
[02:31] <StevenK> They have a Linux workstation, but instead of opening a terminal, they open putty and ssh to localhost.
[02:31] <bhale> StevenK: unfortunately i need a xp pc at my desk, our exchange is currently too old to work with evolution
[02:32] <broonie> StevenK: pterm?
[02:32] <bhale> we are migrating now, very exciting
[02:32] <StevenK> bhale: My condolences.
[02:32] <StevenK> broonie: Hrm?
[02:32] <bhale> StevenK: its a sad day when I pin my hopes and dreams on Evolution
[02:33] <StevenK> Heh
[02:33] <broonie> StevenK: Someone (possibly the PuTTY authors) pulled the terminal emulator out of PuTTY.
[02:33] <StevenK> Oooh, right.
[02:33] <bhale> I think a rather distinguished ubuntu hacker uses pterm, iirc
[02:33] <bhale> I want to say Tollef
[02:33] <Mithrandir> I do, as does cjwatson
[02:34] <StevenK> Yeah, I think said workmates issue for using PuTTy is the terminal emulation.
[02:34] <Mithrandir> my only gripe with it is it doesn't do dead keys.
[02:34] <StevenK> I wonder if pterm uses less RAM than gnome terminal ...
[02:37] <pygi> hey Hobbsee
[02:39] <Hobbsee> hi pygi
[02:42] <desrt> bhale; we have a hero working on tnymail :)
[02:43] <Hobbsee> hiya desrt
[02:43] <desrt> hello hobbsee
[02:43] <desrt> what do you use for mail?
[02:43] <Hobbsee> desrt: thunderbird
[02:43] <Hobbsee> hiya pitti
[02:43] <pitti> desrt: oh, is there something else than mutt? :-P
[02:43] <desrt> Hobbsee; you know that mozilla is dropping thunderbird, right?
[02:43] <desrt> pitti; ya.  there's less.
[02:44] <Hobbsee> desrt: i heard that, yes.  no idea what that actually means for thunderbird development though
[02:46] <Ng> yeah that's looking very interesting
[02:46] <Hobbsee> desrt: basically, i'm looking for a mail client that lets me run multiple identities, and that doesnt suck.
[02:46] <Ng> Hobbsee: all email clients suck
[02:46] <Hobbsee> Ng: this is true, but some suck more than others.
[02:46] <StevenK> s/some/most/
[02:47] <Riddell> seb128: are you able to review capseo and libcaptury in New sometime soon? I just uploaded them and they're needed for kde 4 beta out today
[02:47] <desrt> Hobbsee; i've always been more of the forward-everything-to-one-account type :)
[02:47] <pitti> Hobbsee: http://www.mutt.org/, see the quote at the top :)
[02:47] <pitti> Hobbsee: (nevermind me)
[02:47] <desrt> pitti; nice :)
[02:47] <zul> Hobbsee: you could use outlook :)
[02:47] <Hobbsee> pitti: haha :)
[02:47] <desrt> pitti; reminds me of X :)
[02:47] <bhale> hi desrt
[02:47] <Hobbsee> desrt: of course.  one of the identities is She Who Must Be Obeyed.
[02:47] <Hobbsee> zul: go and wash your mouth out with soap!
[02:47] <pitti> Hobbsee: you are *not* a wife yet
[02:48] <Hobbsee> even when i used windows exclusively, i hated outlook
[02:48] <Hobbsee> pitti: how do you know?  *g*
[02:48] <Hobbsee> pitti: but apart from that, what relevance does that have?
[02:48] <pitti> you told me
[02:48] <Hobbsee> oh, point
[02:48] <desrt> hahahah
[02:49] <desrt> that's... blunt.
[02:49] <Hobbsee> StevenK: it's got some quirky "feature" that it doesnt actually automatically send mail.  it stores it in the outbox, and you have to hit the button manually.  it also doesn tsend on exit.
[02:49] <cjwatson> bhale: apt-cache show pterm | grep Maintainer ;-)
[02:49] <cjwatson> broonie: yes, it was the PuTTY authors, specifically Simon
[02:50] <cjwatson> he largely did the Unix port so that he could run valgrind on PuTTY, but hey, spin-offs ...
[02:51] <desrt> Hobbsee; sounds like there would be an option for that somewhere
[02:51] <Hobbsee> desrt: there may well be.  there should be.  i just never found it, when playing with it.
[02:51] <cjwatson> StevenK: pterm should certainly have the same terminal emulation as PuTTY; that's kind of the point
[02:51] <Hobbsee> then again, they mostly didnt have outlook in win95, so... :P
[02:52] <desrt> my body is quite confused.  i keep going to bed at 11:something and waking up, tired, at 8am
[02:52] <desrt> i'm sleeping fantastically well... but this being awake early thing is throwing me for a loop :/
[02:52] <ion_> pterm Depends: libgtk1.2 :-(
[02:53] <bhale> desrt: 8am? early?
[02:53] <desrt> bhale; for someone who normally rolls over around noon, yes :p
[02:53] <Hobbsee> bhale: 8am is very early
[02:53] <bhale> desrt: never leave McMasters
[02:53] <desrt> McMaster
[02:53] <desrt> say it like that and it sounds just a little bit too much like meccas :p
[02:56] <desrt> i think i'll make some tea or something.  any takers?
[02:57] <Hobbsee> desrt: give me coke, keep me awake :)
[02:57] <seb128> Riddell: yes, I'll have a look
[03:06] <cjwatson> ion_: yes, there's a gtk2 branch upstream but it isn't quite stable yet (issues with the font selection dialog, that sort of thing)
[03:07] <cjwatson> svn://ixion.tartarus.org/main/putty-gtk2
[03:07] <cjwatson> and see unix/GTK2.TODO
[03:08] <ion_> cjwatson: Ok, nice.
[03:08] <cjwatson> I have a patch for one further bit of that; must dust it off and send it upstream
[03:08] <cjwatson> (the list/tree stuff)
[03:34] <Hobbsee> jono: are you around, by any chance?
[03:35] <jono> Hobbsee, briefly
[03:35] <encompass> doko: I am looking at the restricted python module here... http://pypi.python.org/pypi/RestrictedPython/3.4.2 and finding that there is no specific package to handle this module... infact there is some duplicate code found here... http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=RestrictedPython&searchmode=searchfilesanddirs&case=insensitive&version=feisty&arch=i386 is it possible to pull restricted python out and 
[03:36] <encompass> sorry :P
[03:36] <Hobbsee> jono: right.  it looks like we could use some help in resolving a developer issue.
[03:36] <jono> Hobbsee, right, I am not going to be able to solve it this week - I am on holiday
[03:36] <jono> Hobbsee, what is the problem though?
[03:36] <Hobbsee> jono: Kmos.
[03:36] <ivoks> cjwatson: any toughts on bug 93077?
[03:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 93077 in console-setup "Non-exsisting layouts" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93077
[03:36] <jono> Hobbsee, kmos?
[03:37] <ogra> jono, a slightly over enthusiastic guy
[03:37] <jono> right
[03:37] <ogra> he's trying to help with bugs since some days
[03:37] <jono> ok
[03:37] <pygi> ogra, shirish folk?
[03:38] <ogra> but rushes beyond the target without knowing or respecting the procedures ....
[03:38] <jono> right
[03:38] <jono> have you spoken to him/her about this?
[03:38] <ogra> there was some discussion in #ubuntu-bugs for the last hour
[03:39] <doko> encompass: better pack it from the upstream source, you may want to contact pkg-zope-developers@lists.alioth.debian.org
[03:39] <StevenK> And on -motu a few days ago ...
[03:39] <ogra> (or half hour)
[03:39] <Hobbsee> jono: he's not following developer protocol, filing mass sync requests, closing bugs for no reason, filing mass removal requests (the firs tand third of these are mostly incorrect), continually pinging people, including archive admins.  all this he has not been asked to do.  he's had explained to him over and over why these things are wrong (technically), yet doesnt seem to listen or take in the information.  he doesnt respect the requests
[03:39] <Hobbsee> of not filing the bugs, especially when he doesnt understand them.  the upshot of which, if he refuses to behave in a sane way, he needs to be removed from the ubuntu development community, as he's damaging ubuntu development, and not letting people get stuff done.
[03:39] <cjwatson> ivoks: I'll try to get round to it, can't right now ...
[03:39] <Hobbsee> StevenK: and on motu tonight.
[03:39] <Hobbsee> jono: there have been repeated attempts, yes.
[03:40] <ivoks> cjwatson: thanks!
[03:40] <Hobbsee> of course, the sponsorship queues are being disrupted when over half of the requests tend to be Kmos' bugs, which are mostly wrong.
[03:40] <Hobbsee> jono: so it's all effecting MOTU quite badly.  and ignoring doesnt work, due to the mass bug filing, and how it lands on the queues.
[03:40] <jono> Hobbsee, ok, well I can't do anything this week as I will be away, but I will speak to him when I get back
[03:40] <jono> Kmos, ping
[03:40] <Hobbsee> jono: the thing i more want to know is, is this worth taking to the CC, etc?
[03:41] <jono> Hobbsee, not right now
[03:41] <Hobbsee> jono: how is it best to solve this issue?
[03:41] <Kmos> jono: i'm here
[03:41] <jono> Hobbsee, let me speak to him
[03:41] <jono> Kmos, can we chat?
[03:41] <Kmos> jono: sure
[03:41] <jono> Kmos, are you aware of some of the problems people are concerned about with your contributions?
[03:41] <Hobbsee> jono: okay
[03:42] <ScottK> jono: Be sure and get him to explain why he thinks he's authorized to approve backports.
[03:43] <Hobbsee> oh yes, i forgot the backports in my original list
[03:43] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Would you please unsub u-m-s from bug 128402.  He's gone and subscribed them for some random reason too.
[03:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 128402 in k3b "Please backport k3b 1.0.3 from Gutsy to Feisty" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128402
[03:43] <jono> Kmos, you still there?
[03:43] <Hobbsee> ScottK: cant, sorry, not part of the team.
[03:43] <Kmos> jono: private please
[03:43] <ScottK> Ah.
[03:43] <jono> Kmos, ok
[03:43] <Hobbsee> ScottK: but it's marked as invalid anyway, so they wont get too much mail
[03:43] <Kmos> Hobbsee: why it's invalid d?
[03:43] <ScottK> Hobbsee: I marked it until I get it fixed.
[03:44] <jono> Kmos, you get my priv msg?
[03:44] <Kmos> jono: yep
[03:46] <pitti> ScottK: any idea what was wrong with bug 128402
[03:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 128402 in k3b "Please backport k3b 1.0.3 from Gutsy to Feisty" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128402
[03:46] <ScottK> pitti: The person that subscribed both the archive and ums wasn't in backporters.
[03:46] <ScottK> Frankly I think it's probably fine, but jdong has been the one working it.
[03:46] <pitti> ScottK: right, but why is the bug invalid?
[03:47] <pitti> ScottK: there were two positive tests
[03:47] <ScottK> I marked it invalid until the subscriptions could be fixed
[03:47] <ScottK> I had planned to un mark it once the archive and ums had been unsubbed.
[03:48] <ScottK> Agreed that there were two postitive tests, but the person that subscribed the archive wasn't someone who should have done that.
[03:48] <pitti> ScottK: ah, I see; well, I cannot unsub ums, and u-a is unsubbed
[03:48] <ScottK> OK.
[03:48] <pitti> ScottK: so maybe it should be 'Incomplete'?
[03:48] <Hobbsee> ScottK: the marking will still send bugmail, btw
[03:48] <Hobbsee> as in, each time you mark it, it sends more bugmail
[03:48] <ScottK> Right.
[03:48] <Hobbsee> so you may be better off not touching it
[03:49] <pitti> ScottK: archive guys only consider bugs which are Confirmed or In Progress (maybe even only the latter)
[03:49] <ScottK> OK.
[03:49] <ScottK> Good to know.
[03:49] <pitti> ScottK: alright, thanks for clearing that up; I was just confused by that
[03:49] <ScottK> I mostly didn't want it getting accidentally backported.
[03:49] <ScottK> I've had enough trouble recently with backports that didn't go through the procees.
[03:49] <ScottK> err process.
[03:50] <pitti> ScottK: right; I think 'Incomplete' will work fine for that
[03:50] <pitti> seb128: ^ do you agree?
[03:50] <ScottK> Agreed.
[03:50] <seb128> pitti: I did unsubscribe ubuntu-archive some minutes ago
[03:51] <seb128> pitti: what backport team does now is concern them, but yeah look like Incomplete or New is about right
[03:51] <pitti> https://launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+bugs?field.status%3Alist=In+Progress
[03:51] <pitti> ^ that's my canned search for backports to be processed
[03:51] <ScottK> Good to know.
[03:51] <pitti> ScottK: hm, so even 'confirmed' will not be on my radar; does that coincide with your process?
[03:52] <ScottK> Yes it does.
[03:52] <seb128> pitti: ideally if ubuntu-archive is subscribed the bug should be to process
[03:52] <pitti> ok, cool
[03:52] <StevenK> I can unsubscribe u-m-s if you wish
[03:52] <seb128> no reason to subscribe the team otherwise
[03:52] <ScottK> Please do.
[03:52] <pitti> seb128: yeah, but we might put it back to needsinfo e. g. if it is out of date or so
[03:52] <seb128> right
[03:52] <pitti> erm, "Incomplete" in newlpspeak
[03:53] <seb128> :)
[03:53] <ScottK> Ideally yes, but as we've just seen random people subscribe the archive (and set in progress).
[03:53] <StevenK> ScottK: Done.
[03:53] <ScottK> Thanks.
[03:53] <iwj> IJLTS `bug nnnn - Unimportant Incomprehensible'
[03:53] <ScottK> Up until now, I've been against the idea of the status restrictions, but I'm convinced it's needed.
[03:53] <seb128> ogra: do you plan to do the gnome-screensaver and gnome-power-manager updates, there is some of the few modules left to update to get GNOME 2.19.6
[03:54] <ogra> i'm on it, should be done today
[03:54] <seb128> cool, thanks
[03:54] <Hobbsee> ogra: you're german.  you should have no problem :P
[03:54] <ogra> sorry for the delay, had some ltsp things before
[03:55] <pitti> Hobbsee: "Rotkraut bleibt Rotkraut und Brautkleid bleibt Brautkleid"
[03:55] <jono> ok everyone
[03:55] <ogra> Hobbsee, depends ;)
[03:55] <seb128> ogra: no problem
[03:55] <jono> listen to me for a second :)
[03:55] <jono> I have spoken with Kmos
[03:55] <pitti> Hobbsee: (common tongue twister in .de)
[03:55] <jono> the problem here is that Kmos just needs to learn how the community works, and learn from everyone
[03:56] <ScottK> jono: That's not the problem.
[03:56] <Hobbsee> pitti: yeah, that.
[03:56] <jono> ScottK, one second
[03:56] <Hobbsee> pitti: i thought it was something like that.
[03:56] <Hobbsee> ogra: :)
[03:56] <jono> I have asked if Kmos could ask in #ubuntu-devel before making an action
[03:56] <jono> and to ask generally in #ubuntu-devel
[03:56] <jono> I would like him to ask before he does things, and act on the advise of the community
[03:57] <ogra> jono, he also needs to learn to listen a bit and step back from being overly enthusiastic ... while thats great, its harmful if unchanneled
[03:57] <jono> ScottK, please, the aim here is to resolve the problem, please work with us
[03:57] <pitti> I have quite a lot of contact with Kmos, too, and while I agree that he did some bad things in the bug tracker etc., he did some helpful things, too, so it's mainly a matter of education (not malice)
[03:57] <Mithrandir> anybody know where the pimlico/openedhand people hang out?
[03:57] <jono> indeed
[03:57] <ScottK> jono: We've tried that before.  It lasted about a day.
[03:57] <ogra> pitti, ++
[03:57] <jono> Kmos is a good contributor, he just needs to learn how to do things right
[03:58] <jono> ScottK, you are not helping if you take that attitude
[03:58] <seb128> I'm not sure encouraging him to ask things on the chan is a good idea
[03:58] <jono> the point here is that Kmos needs to understand the right way of doing things
[03:58] <Hobbsee> jono: however, that does require that he listens to what people tell him, and puts it into action.
[03:58] <jono> the only way that can happen is for him to step back, stop firing on all barrals and ask for help
[03:58] <Kmos> ScottK: don't need to ignore me..
[03:59] <jono> Hobbsee, which I have asked him to do
[03:59] <jono> Kmos, you will listen to the advise people give you and act on it, right?
[03:59] <seb128> jono: my issue with him is that he keeps asking me to look at his bugs rather than waiting
[03:59] <Hobbsee> jono: excellent.  i hope he then does so
[03:59] <pitti> "stop firing on all barrels" ++
[03:59] <Kmos> jono: Ok
[03:59] <pitti> throwing ten "plz fix this, kthxbye" /queries a day at me won't do much good
[03:59] <Kmos> [14:57]  <ogra> jono, he also needs to learn to listen a bit and step back from being overly enthusiastic ... while thats great, its harmful if  unchanneled
[03:59] <jono> Kmos, you really *do* need to take a step back, and take advise from people in here
[03:59] <Kmos> ogra: i agree with you
[04:00] <jono> Kmos, stop providing quotes
[04:00] <jono> listen to my words
[04:00] <Kmos> i'm listenin
[04:00] <jono> we can *all* work *really* well together
[04:00] <jono> it just needs patience on behalf of ogra, Hobbsee and ScottK and willingless to learn on behalf of Kmos
[04:01] <jono> I don't want to see people suggesting we eject Kmos out of the channel or ban him, and I also don;t want to see Kmos ignoring advice
[04:01] <ScottK> jono: You have NO idea how much patience has already been shown.
[04:01] <pitti> Kmos: try to do fewer things and focus on them to understand them thoroughly and get them right
[04:01] <jono> ScottK, I agree, but this is a community, and some people take longer to get the idea than others
[04:01] <seb128> Kmos: and be patient, no need to ping people on IRC because has bug has been opened without reply for a day
[04:01] <jono> Kmos, so everything clear?
[04:02] <Kmos> seb128: ok, sorry for everything
[04:02] <Kmos> pitti: ok
[04:02] <Kmos> jono: yes
[04:02] <Hobbsee> jono: i have limited time.  i cannot spend hours on someone, and find that htey're not listening to what i say.  at all.  it's like talking to a brick wall, and i frankly have better things to do, both on ubuntu and outside of it, than that.
[04:02] <ScottK> I would just like to note for the record that everything that was said to kmos just now was (almost verbatim) already said to him several days ago.
[04:03] <jono> Hobbsee, then step back
[04:03] <jono> Hobbsee, no one is expecting you to spend any more time on Kmos, so just seperate yourself from the issue
[04:03] <cjwatson> everyone has a right to choose not to act on something
[04:03] <Hobbsee> jono: this is the logical plan
[04:03] <seb128> Hobbsee, ScottK: let's calm down and give him another try
[04:03] <ScottK> You are welcome to.  I'm done.
[04:03] <Hobbsee> jono: however, one can ignore irc.  one cannot ignore the sponsorship queue.
[04:03] <Kmos> I'll try to change my attitude of enthusiastic/excess to see things better (we do mistakes when try to be GOD and be everywhere) from today..
[04:04] <Hobbsee> jono: where one is actually the head of it
[04:04] <Hobbsee> jono: which is really quite unfortunate.
[04:04] <ScottK> Kmos: How is this different than when Hobbsee and I told you the exact same thing two days ago.
[04:04] <jono> ScottK, PLEASE
[04:04] <jono> Kmos has accepted he has made mistakes, lets give him a chance
[04:04] <Kmos> ScottK: pitti told me a thing you've already said.. it's true
[04:04] <Hobbsee> jono: one can also not really ignore the dropping rationale of the others who are looking at the sponsorship queue, and crying over it.
[04:05] <Hobbsee> jono: the people crying over the state of the queue that is, not the rationale
[04:05] <seb128> Hobbsee: let's say that things have been clarified now
[04:05] <jono> Hobbsee, everyone has the ability to step back for a second, and Kmos will not be doing anything without checking first for the next few weeks anyway
[04:05] <seb128> Hobbsee: if there is still issues in the next days raise them to jono
[04:05] <jono> indeed
[04:05] <Hobbsee> seb128: i hope so.  but i thought the same thing a few days ago, and kmos proved that they hadnt with this latest lot of sync requests :)
[04:05] <jono> Hobbsee, please
[04:05] <seb128> Hobbsee: let's say it has been done "officially" now
[04:06] <Hobbsee> so, i'm a little wary of the "i promise i'm fixed"
[04:06] <seb128> stop there
[04:06] <seb128> and let's see how it goes
[04:06] <seb128> ok?
[04:06] <jono> indeed
[04:06] <Hobbsee> seb128: you type faster than i do
[04:06] <seb128> ;)
[04:06] <jono> Kmos, so to be clear - you will not make any syncs or contributions without asking in #ubuntu-devel first, right?
[04:06] <Hobbsee> what i was about to say next, was "however, if he can show actual change, then i'll not pressure for him to be removed from ubuntu development"
[04:06] <desrt> seb128; i just opened this bug about some gnome packages released 12 seconds ago not being packaged for ubuntu yet.  please fix.
[04:06] <ScottK> I'll also just note that I am currently angry enough that I'm considering quitting Ubuntu right now.
[04:07] <Kmos> jono: ok
[04:07] <seb128> ok, good, everybody goes back to work then ;)
[04:07] <Hobbsee> ScottK: you should probably step away from your machine for a while.
[04:07] <TheMuso> ScottK: Please? We need you.
[04:07] <desrt> :)
[04:07] <Kmos> can I say one thing
[04:07] <Kmos> ?
[04:07] <ScottK> Agreed.
[04:07] <desrt> seb128; your level of service is falling :p
[04:07] <Kmos> ScottK: please don't ignore me
[04:07] <jono> we can all work well together, kmos just needs to know the boundaries and get the enthusiasm and work right
[04:08] <jono> lets all be supportive of him for two weeks and see how he improves
[04:08] <seb128> desrt: you are welcome to give me a hand then ;)
[04:08] <TheMuso> I for one, am confident he will, after working with him regarding syncs, and positive outcomes being achieved.
[04:08] <desrt> sebuild 3.0?  heh.
[04:08] <Kmos> Hobbsee: not on crack :P
[04:08] <seb128> stop there
[04:08] <seb128> enough
[04:08] <seb128> let's rather see how it goes now
[04:09] <desrt> less talking = more hacking :)
[04:09] <Hobbsee> i am, i am.  or at least, will do
[04:09] <seb128> coNP: way to go ;)
[04:11] <StevenK> pitti: libapache-mod-removeip can be NBS'd out
[04:12] <StevenK> zul: Why does xen-utils-3.1 Depend on python-xen-3.1 if it isn't provided by any package?
[04:12] <pitti> StevenK: I rejected the last round of binaries because they had too many RC bugs in them
[04:12] <StevenK> pitti: input-modules-2.6.22-8-*-di is also listed, is that waiting on something?
[04:12] <StevenK> Ahh
[04:13] <pitti> StevenK: no, I'll get it purged along with the apache one now
[04:13] <StevenK> pitti: Way cool, thanks.
[04:13] <StevenK> pitti: They are the only zero sized under NBS, which should make it simple
[04:13] <pitti> done
[04:14] <StevenK> Danke
[04:14] <pitti> StevenK: hm, should I purge lyx-{qt,xforms} and thereby render sdcc FTBFS?
[04:14] <zul> StevenK: it should be fixed soonish
[04:14] <pitti> it wouldn't make the package uninstallable, but remind the next person uploading it to fix it
[04:16] <StevenK> pitti: Sure. It FTBFS anyway, due to the .lyx file provided containing encoding errors, and lyx ABRT'ing when trying to export plain text.
[04:16] <pitti> ah, I see
[04:16] <pitti> so, <jedi wave>away with them
[04:18] <StevenK> Gnome moved from CVS to SVN, and the silky guys haven't noticed.
[04:21] <stdin> anyone ever think about splitting #ubuntu in to a couple of channels?
[04:21] <stdin> it needs it IMO :P
[04:22] <seb128> stdin: there is #ubuntu+1
[04:22] <seb128> ;)
[04:22] <stdin> heh
[04:22] <Amaranth> and #ubuntu-effects
[04:22] <stdin> yeah, not quite what I meant there
[04:23] <seb128> there is lot of #ubuntu-*
[04:23] <seb128> bugs, motu, meeting, devel, mobile, x
[04:23] <seb128> etc
[04:23] <stdin> every time I join #ubuntu I instantly get a migraine
[04:24] <jmillionator> yeah; that's why I joined the forums
[04:24] <Amaranth> if you mean splitting it into several general channels #python tried that with a much smaller group
[04:24] <Amaranth> all the smart people worked really hard to make sure they were in one of the two channels and everyone in the other channel lost out
[04:25] <stgraber> asac: results are :
[04:25] <stgraber> ap_scan=1 + unset bssid + connected to another WLAN -> 2xTimeout 00:00:00:00:00:00 and then disconnect+connect
[04:25] <stgraber> ap_scan=1 + set bssid + connected to another WLAN -> disconnect+connect successfully
[04:25] <stgraber> ap_scan=2 + set bssid + connected to another WLAN -> doesn't connect at all, connects immediatly after having manually set the AP with "iwconfig eth3 ap xx:xx..."
[04:25] <stdin> Amaranth: can't you manually join the forwarded channels ? so people who want to help can be in both
[04:26] <Amaranth> following one big channel is easier than following 5 smaller ones
[04:26] <stgraber> asac: I'm currently connected using gprs so can't really download network-manager sources (due to the cost of such connection) but will do tomorrow on wlan, can you do a patch for NM to add "network_set 0 bssid xx:xx:" ?
[04:27] <asac> stgraber: we ... it should be done by nm already
[04:27] <munckfish> Why doesn't invoke-rc.d check it's being run by root? Is there ever a scenario where it gets run by a non-priv user?
[04:28] <Amaranth> there is no explicit reason for it to not work as root
[04:28] <asac> stgraber: what we should try is to use ap_scan 2 for ipw3xxx driver
[04:28] <stgraber> asac: nope, it doesn't connect before I manually move to the correct bssid with iwconfig
[04:29] <stgraber> asac: even with network_set 0 bssid
[04:29] <asac> stgraber: yes ... i think network manager does that if it uses ap_scan
[04:29] <asac> 2
[04:29] <asac> but have to verify
[04:29] <asac> stgraber: so setting right bssid in wpa doesn't help?
[04:30] <stgraber> asac: it helps with ap_scan=1
[04:30] <munckfish> Amaranth: ok I just found this http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=229972
[04:30] <ubotu> Debian bug 229972 in sysv-rc "invoke-rc.d could check for root" [Wishlist,Open] 
[04:31] <stgraber> asac: NM does : ap_scan=1, add_network, set ssid and key_mgmt here
[04:31] <stgraber> asac: not set bssid
[04:31] <asac> stgraber: yes
[04:31] <munckfish> The problem is the init scripts don't check they have the correct privs
[04:31] <asac> stgraber: let me look
[04:31] <stgraber> asac: so setting ssid and bssid may help
[04:32] <stgraber> asac: that's what tell the tests I've done the past two hours at least
[04:32] <stgraber> asac: ap_scan=2 doesn't connect at all without manual intervention, ap_scan=1 without bssid set cause timeouts and with bssid it connects just fine
[04:33] <asac> stgraber: does it invoke "SET_NETWORK %i scan_ssid 1" for you?
[04:33] <asac> stgraber: right ... imo nm should manually select ap for ap_scan=2
[04:34] <stgraber> no it doesn't (at least I don't set it in syslog)
[04:35] <stgraber> imo, forcing it to set the BSSID helps as it'll automatically ignore this 00:00:00 thing (not matching bssid)
[04:37] <StevenK> jono: I'd be curious to see the difference in which US states still need LoCo teams after your blogs/fridge posting got dugg. Can certainly wait when you're back from holidays.
[04:41] <iwj> munckfish: Why would it matter ?  Either it will work, in which case fine, or it will fail harmlessly, in which case fine.
[04:42] <iwj> It's rarely a good idea to check in advance for a specific kind of installation problem; best just to let things carry on and fail when they fail - and have proper error handling of course.
[04:42] <munckfish> iwj: the guy sat next to me just tried to restart apache, but forgot to add sudo in front
[04:43] <munckfish> the error message wasn't that helpful
[04:43] <iwj> Yes, so it didn't work and ...
[04:43] <iwj> ... the error message should be improved ?
[04:43] <iwj> What did it say ?
[04:43] <munckfish> vague things, but the error comes from the apache init script
[04:43] <munckfish> now
[04:43] <infinity> iwj: Check the debdiff between your dpkg upload and the one I made earlier today.  Have a good cry about the horrible hack I had to do.  Revel in the realisation that at least it works.  And maybe give some thought to making someone rewrite the triplettable madness to properly support our use case. :)
[04:43] <iwj> Error messages shouldn't be vague.
[04:43] <munckfish> rather than set about updating all the init scripts in history right now
[04:43] <munckfish> I wondered if something helpful could be added to invoke-rc.d
[04:43] <iwj> infinity: I have a bad feeling about this.
[04:44] <infinity> iwj: Not as bad as the feeling I had uploading it.
[04:44] <infinity> iwj: But at least it works for now. :/
[04:44] <munckfish> iwj: So I found myself asking, in what situation would an init script not be run as root?
[04:45] <Hobbsee> stdin: read teh ubuntu-ops mailing list - it has been proposed
[04:47] <iwj> infinity: ROTFL
[04:47] <iwj> This whole thing is a complete mess.
[04:47] <jono> StevenK, been lots of new teams formed
[04:47] <iwj> (And I wish w3m wouldn't insist on decompressing .tar.gzs when you download them!)
[04:47] <jono> StevenK, we are going to have locos in every state for sure I think :)
[04:48] <iwj> munckfish: As an example, I would expect that  /etc/init.d/apache reload  might well work when run as apache and if it does that would be worth keeping.  If not apache then there's probably another example.
[04:48] <StevenK> jono: Way cool. :-)
[04:49] <infinity> iwj: Yeah, if you follow what it was doing to me, you'll see why the hack was necessary.  That whole parsing subsystem needs to be rewritten to support what we're doing.
[04:49] <munckfish> iwj: here's the output for apache init script without sudo: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32150/
[04:49] <jono> StevenK, kicking ass and taking names
[04:49] <iwj> That whole parsing system is complete nonsense.
[04:49] <jono> :)
[04:49] <infinity> iwj: (And I needed it now, not in a few days, after I rewote it)
[04:49] <iwj> Yes.
[04:49] <iwj> Rewrote> and then it would do fourteen other crazy things at least until we'd had time to deal with the bug reports.
[04:49] <aaroncampbell> We seem to be getting very regular Firefox updates for feisty (just got 2.0.0.6), but not Thunderbird...we're still on the 1.5 series.  Is there any reason why?
[04:49] <infinity> iwj: Indeed. :)
[04:49] <munckfish> iwj: of course it does the 'right thing' in the end, it's just that it's not as nice and clear as a "You need to run this as root" (exit)
[04:50] <infinity> iwj: The hack is fine for now, just Sick And Wrong.
[04:50] <elkbuntu> jono, you realise that'll be 52 baby birds chirping for worms, right ;)
[04:50] <iwj> infinity: Yes.
[04:50] <iwj> Reading that code it wasn't at all clear to me that all of this separate piping of different bits of these different insane arch strings is at all reasonable.
[04:50] <StevenK> jono: Since when are there more than 50 US states?
[04:50] <jono> elkbuntu, indeed
[04:51] <Spads> StevenK: there are territories
[04:51] <jono> hehe
[04:51] <Spads> StevenK: puerto rico, virgin islands, guam...
[04:51] <StevenK> Ahhh
[04:51] <elkbuntu> ok, so i suck at america
[04:51] <iwj> And of course there's no documentation of what a `Debian triplet is' and GNU triplets use concepts from 30 years ago.
[04:51] <iwj> s/ is'/' is/
[04:51] <Spads> of course, the territories get their own ISO names generally
[04:51] <infinity> iwj: It's entirely unreasonable, IMO.  Could be reworked to something saner, but I'd prefer to do that upstream.
[04:51] <jono> USA now, Africa next ;)
[04:52] <elkbuntu> jono, africa is going to be a real challenge though, technologically
[04:52] <iwj> upstream> Right.
[04:52] <jono> elkbuntu, indeed
[04:52] <jono> elkbuntu, but anything is possible :)
[04:52] <iwj> munckfish: Seems fairly clear to me.  It says `Permission denied' twice, once as the last thing.  There's a bit of noise about the fqdn - is that a general problem with the installation ?  If not then there might be a bug there.
[04:52] <infinity> iwj: Anyhow, after abusing it, I verified it on 7 of our arches, and it produces output I'm happy with, so we'll keep this crack for the time being.
[04:52] <iwj> If you're at a prompt restarting apache then you ought to know what EACCES means :-).
[04:52] <iwj> infinity: Right.
[04:53] <elkbuntu> jono,  of course it is
[04:53] <jono> we are going to make some serious shit happen with LoCos :)
[04:54] <jono> right screw you all, I am on holiday :P
[04:54] <jono> and I need to tidy my house :(
[04:55] <munckfish> iwj: it's ok I give up :). The fqdn bit is cause it's running on localhost
[04:57] <stgraber> asac: Will be back on WiFi tomorrow, this gprs is really way too expensive :)
[04:59] <xxxxx1> we have many Psi users here?
[04:59] <xxxxx1> bug 66940
[05:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 66940 in psi "Psi version string presents as "Debian testing/unstable" on Dapper" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/66940
[05:00] <xxxxx1> :)
[05:00] <Hobbsee> xxxxx1: that'd be cool :)
[05:01] <xxxxx1> rock n roll
[05:01] <ScottK> Well isn't there already an upstream bug on that?
[05:01] <xxxxx1> i'll check
[05:01] <ScottK> That's what the bug said.
[05:02] <ScottK> OTOH, we've already got an Ubuntu specific version, so one more change shouldn't hurt.
[05:04] <xxxxx1> sorry, what's "OTOH"?
[05:04] <xxxxx1> :}
[05:05] <coNP> on the other hand, IIRC :D
[05:05] <norsetto> AFAIK, on top of my head
[05:06] <xxxxx1> coNP, thx
[05:09] <norsetto> ScottK: Hey Scott, I have a couple of hours to kill, any quiz?
[05:11] <Hobbsee> norsetto: okay, fix turkey :)
[05:11] <norsetto> Hobsee: turkey, right
[05:11] <norsetto> Hobbsee: the country or the bird?
[05:11] <Hobbsee> btw - hit hob<tab> to save typos, and to save typing
[05:11] <Hobbsee> norsetto: the package :)
[05:12] <Hobbsee> and i take no responsibility if it all blows up
[05:12] <norsetto> Hobbsee: nice thx
[05:12] <lemsx1> it looks like the Gutsy DVD is oversized... would making a DVD using jigdo work?
[05:12] <norsetto> Hobbsee: ok, let me check that out
[05:13] <Hobbsee> norsetto: if you get really brave, have a look at slash.  unsure if that should be removed, or a newer version synced from debian, or what
[05:16] <geser> Hobbsee: slash is on my watch list of the apache rdepends. there is already a Debian bug for it: Debian bug #429071
[05:16] <ubotu> Debian bug 429071 in slash "please update/request removal of your package" [Serious,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/429071
[05:16] <Hobbsee> geser: even better :)
[05:16] <Hobbsee> norsetto: that's part of the stuff to check for, of course - debian and launchpad bugs on it
[05:17] <Hobbsee> BAD APT!
[05:17] <Hobbsee> hm
[05:18] <Hobbsee> apparently i put yn, instead of n, and it took it
[05:18] <Hobbsee> oh, i'tll accept y*.  interesting.
[05:19] <ScottK> That'd be fun.
[05:19] <Hobbsee> that'd be special
[05:29] <ScottK> norsetto: What should be done with thunderbird-quickfile?
[05:29] <ScottK> There's one for you.
[05:34] <norsetto> Hobbsee: what problem for turkey, I can see more than one .....
[05:36] <Hobbsee> norsetto: oh, the fact that it doesnt install.  but fix all of them, really :)
[05:36] <norsetto> Hobbsee: the install is just because of the miss. dep
[05:37] <norsetto> Hobbsee: there is a debian bug as well on that
[05:38] <norsetto> Hobbsee: do you know why libgcj7-awt is not in gutsy?
[05:38] <norsetto> anyhow, that lib causes an exception in feisty
[05:40] <norsetto> Hobbsee: so, all the problems I see are just for a common cause: libgcj7-awt
[05:41] <Hobbsee> norsetto: try installing libgcj7-awt in gutsy
[05:41] <Hobbsee> you're in luck with the output
[05:41] <norsetto> Hobbsee: and there is also a missing build-depends ....
[05:41] <Hobbsee> ah, then add them hwile you're at it :)
[05:42] <norsetto> Hobbsee: well libgcj7-awt is not in unstable anymore too....
[05:43] <Hobbsee> norsetto:
[05:43] <Hobbsee> Package libgcj7-awt is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[05:43] <Hobbsee> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
[05:43] <Hobbsee> is only available from another source
[05:43] <Hobbsee> However the following packages replace it:
[05:43] <Hobbsee>   libgcj7-1 libgcj7-0
[05:43] <Hobbsee> E: Package libgcj7-awt has no installation candidate
[05:44] <Hobbsee> (that outputs when you try to install libgcj7-awt
[05:44] <norsetto> Hobbsee: yes, its mentioned in the debian bug too
[05:44] <Hobbsee> ScottK: can you help?  i really need to head to bed
[05:45] <Hobbsee> norsetto: does it build with the changed library?
[05:45] <norsetto> Hobbsee: no, missing build-depends, I'm working them out one by one
[05:45] <Hobbsee> ah
[05:46] <geser> norsetto: have you checked if perhaps a rebuild fixes it?
[05:50] <alex-weej> i want to get the notification-daemon package out of RCS, make some changes, and get the changes back into Ubuntu. how do i do that?
[05:51] <norsetto> geser: yes, thats what I'm doing right now
[05:52] <alex-weej> anyone?
[05:52] <alex-weej> i've never been able to figure this out :/
[06:00] <norsetto> so I'm getting the same build errors as debian #424445
[06:00] <ubotu> Debian bug 424445 in turkey "turkey - FTBFS: /build/user/turkey-1.34.0/build.xml:28: Compile failed; see the compiler error output for details." [Serious,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/424445
[06:05] <encompass> can someone tell the poor noob how to easily translate utc time?
[06:05] <encompass> I want to take part in this edubuntu meeting
[06:05] <encompass> (at 20:00 UTC)
[06:05] <coNP> encompass: where do you live?
[06:05] <encompass> Finland
[06:05] <coNP> @now Helsinki
[06:05] <ubotu> Current time in Europe/Helsinki: August 01 2007, 19:05:47 - Next meeting: Edubuntu in 3 hours 54 minutes
[06:05] <encompass> gmt +3 I think
[06:05] <ion_> encompass: TZ=UTC date
[06:05] <coNP> encompass: look what I asked from ubotu
[06:06] <encompass> spiffy
[06:06] <encompass> dang 10 pm tongiht... will lets hope this new father can do it :S
[06:09] <encompass> thanks coNP that helps me alot
[06:09] <coNP> your welcome, encompass
[06:09] <coNP> s/r/ are/
[06:20] <iwj> pitti: Would you care to look at my MIR for consolekit ?
[06:20] <iwj> I wasn't able to derootify it unfortunately; it's full of ioctl(..,VT_...)
[06:20] <iwj> (which give EPERM if not root)
[06:20] <pitti> iwj: yeah, I was planning to have a look at that beast anyway (if keescook has some time to give it a quick review, that'd be much appreciated, too)
[06:21] <iwj> OK.  I've been moderately deeply into the code since I had to add a new dbus message.
[06:21] <iwj> Not pleasant but I think I can now say that the risk to the system as a whole isn't too great :-).
[06:21] <iwj> keescook: ^
[06:21] <pitti> I probably won't manage it any more today, though
[06:22] <iwj> Right.
[06:46] <alex-weej> mvo__: talk here instead, OT for #gnome-hackers :P
[06:46] <alex-weej> you made some changes to notification-daemon recently to fix the crash
[06:47] <pitti> ogra: can I remind you of the two tribe-4 LTSP bugs? are they on your radar?
[06:47] <mvo__> alex-weej: yes - and now the background color for the notification is no longer correct
[06:47] <alex-weej> mvo__: i just tried to figure it out
[06:47] <alex-weej> but i can't
[06:47] <alex-weej> i've fixed up my gtkrc
[06:47] <alex-weej> so that normal tooltips are the right colour
[06:47] <alex-weej> (and it's on launchpad already)#
[06:47] <mvo__> alex-weej: what bugnumber?
[06:47] <alex-weej> but notification-daemon still doesn't use the right colour
[06:48] <alex-weej> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/129699
[06:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129699 in ubuntulooks "New style tooltips are not themed correctly due to name change" [High,Triaged] 
[06:48] <alex-weej> but even so, i can't figure out why it's not working
[06:48] <alex-weej> also, the code you changed (or at least what i think you changed) was copied elsewhere in the same C file
[06:49] <alex-weej> in the countdown_expose_cb function
[06:49] <alex-weej> (god knows why)
[06:49] <alex-weej> (we need to switch to cairo there anyway)
[06:50] <mvo__> alex-weej: hrm, copied code == bad code. I have  a look
[06:50] <alex-weej> mvo__: :)
[06:50] <alex-weej> i don't like the hack we're using to get the tooltip colour - is there no nicer way to do it? would it not be nicer if the bubble was an actual, bona fide, GtkWidget?
[06:52] <keescook> iwj: I can try to take a look at it today
[06:52] <iwj> Thanks.
[06:52] <mvo__> alex-weej: when I last looked into this (a while ago) there was no official way to get the GtkStyle for a noticiation, it would be really cool if that would be possible
[06:53] <iwj> I may be out - dinner date in a bit :-) - but do let me know what you think.  I'd be happy to answer any questions.
[06:53] <alex-weej> mvo__: i guess that's an upstream task. for now, the hack will do :P
[06:53] <mvo__> alex-weej: I at least fixed the duplication now (I really hope it was not me who did that in the first place, but I think it was not me :)
[06:53] <alex-weej> haha
[06:53] <alex-weej> right
[06:54] <LaserJock> cjwatson: did you get my ping about debian-cd?
[06:57] <alex-weej> mvo__: there was one more thing... Gossip's notifications don't work with the ubuntu theme, but they do with the standard theme...
[06:57] <alex-weej> mvo__: they sort of flash up the shape, but disappear straight away and just dirty whatever was underneath
[06:57] <mvo__> oh, hrm
[06:57] <alex-weej> ah i know whyy
[06:57] <mvo__> alex-weej: anything on the terminal when that happens? when you run notification-daemon ?
[06:57] <alex-weej> because it has the countdown
[06:58] <alex-weej> and you never fixed the countdown_expose_cb function
[06:58] <alex-weej> mvo__: i can't force this one, have to wait for someone to log on LOL
[06:59] <alex-weej> that's the only difference though, it has the pie chart + buttons
[06:59] <alex-weej> and given that the pie chart drawing stuff still had the old code, i'll bet that's it
[06:59] <alex-weej> actually, if you're familiar with the code and you have a couple of minutes
[06:59] <alex-weej> the new cairo drawing stuff is in the standard theme
[06:59] <alex-weej> i'd guess it's a copy paste job
[06:59] <mvo__> alex-weej: *cough* ok
[06:59] <alex-weej> because the pie chart is drawn pretty poorly with the ubuntu one
[06:59] <alex-weej> but that's if you're not too busy :P
[07:00] <alex-weej> i was gonna give it a go myself but i'm not too confident yet
[07:00] <mvo__> alex-weej: I wouldn't mind a helping hand with it :)
[07:00] <alex-weej> how?
[07:01] <mvo__> alex-weej: a patch that fixes the pi thing would be great
[07:01] <cjwatson> LaserJock: yeah, noted, remind me if I haven't replied to your mail by this time tomorrow
[07:02] <LaserJock> cjwatson: ok, thanks, I don't mean to rush but I'd like to know when I can start testing as we need to get feedback
[07:06] <lamont`> Riddell: is there any hope that kde will break the source packages up into something more sanely-sized?
[07:09] <infinity> lamont`: You're talking about the same people who feel it's good practice to concatenate all their source before compiling, for better optimisation and OOMing compilers.
[07:10] <lamont`> infinity: I'll refrain from making comments about the mental state that could possibly indicate
[07:12] <mvo__> alex-weej: otherwise it will give it a go myself
[07:12] <lamont`> infinity: but do they remember to use -pipe for that big runtime performance boost?
[07:12] <lamont`> hrm... ECHAN
[07:16] <bddebian> Heya
[07:19] <keescook> Mithrandir: the apparmor apache module (which is built from the source) uses apxs; I'm open to whatever you recommend for changes if this is a problem
[07:22] <infinity> keescook: Why would that be a problem?
[07:22] <keescook> infinity: dunno, Mithrandir had asked about it.  :)
[07:23] <infinity> keescook: Only because you first mentioned it to him. :P
[07:23] <infinity> keescook: (FWIW, mentioning lpia breakages to me is slightly more helpful at this stage)
[07:23] <infinity> It took a libtool, apr, and apache upload, and apparmor's happy again.
[07:24] <keescook> infinity: yawp, I have already redirected to you.  :)
[07:24] <infinity> Well, and a dpkg fix before that.
[07:24] <keescook> heh
[07:24] <keescook> easy!  ;)
[07:24] <infinity> Yeah, barrel of laughs. :)
[07:29] <alex-weej> mvo__: pi?
[07:29] <mvo__> alex-weej: the pi chart
[07:29] <alex-weej> oh, pie
[07:29] <alex-weej> lol
[07:29] <alex-weej> pi is 3.14195....
[07:29] <mvo__> heh :)
[07:29] <mvo__> indeed
[07:29] <ion_> 
[07:29] <alex-weej> :P
[07:29] <Riddell> lamont`: not any any significant extent
[07:30] <ion_> I seem to remember pis Unicode number.
[07:30] <lamont`> Riddell: just wishing is all
[07:30] <mvo__> alex-weej: I may not be able to look into it today, its already evening in my TZ already :/
[07:30] <alex-weej> mvo__: i wouldn't worry about it, the gdk one works fine. i'll have a go if i'm bored this week
[07:30] <infinity> mvo__: Wimp.  It's 3:30am here...
[07:31] <alex-weej> mvo__: unless you're actually taking about fixing the crasher?
[07:32] <alex-weej> or just porting it to cairo?
[07:32] <alex-weej> *talking
[07:32] <alex-weej> bah, sorry, i've been really incoherent today to everyone
[07:34] <mvo__> alex-weej: no, the crasher should be fixed already :)
[07:35] <alex-weej> ok cool, is it in the source archives yet?
[07:35] <mvo__> alex-weej: it should be (-ubuntu3 IIRC)
[07:35] <mvo__> infinity: dude, go to bed
[07:42] <lamont`> After installing, the following source dependencies are still unsatisfied:
[07:42] <lamont`> sip4(inst 4.6-1ubuntu2 ! << wanted 4.6)
[07:42] <lamont`> Source-dependencies not satisfied; skipping python-kde3
[07:42] <lamont`> bad python-kde3
[07:42] <lamont`> Riddell: if you haven't seen that yet... ^^
[07:43] <Riddell> lamont`: yeah, that's a recent problem, it's somewhere on my todo list to look into it
[07:43] <Riddell> recent-ish anyway
[07:43] <lamont`> np
[07:44] <lamont`> part of the joy of hppa playing catch-up is that I get to find the broken-build-dep issues that have crept in
[07:46] <lamont`> the good news is that skipping python-kde3 saved about 4 hours of build-time
[07:47] <Riddell> :)
[07:50] <lamont`> my mass pretend-avail didn't help anything
[07:55] <ScottK> lamont`: We did do some testing and IIRC the version dependendy for python-kde3 can be relazed without harm.
[07:55] <lamont`> ScottK: cool.  I don't much care atm, though. :)
[07:56] <ScottK> OK
[07:56] <lamont`> and even if it got uploaded right now, linux-source-2.6.22 would still be ahead of it (hence my total lack  of caring))
[09:17] <Windkracht8> does anyone know who is responsible for the update-notifier project?
[09:19] <evand> Windkracht8: mvo
[09:20] <Windkracht8> sorry, mvo stands for?
[09:20] <evand> Michael Vogt
[09:20] <Windkracht8> ok, his name is in the authors file, I
[09:21] <Windkracht8> 'll send him a mail about my update suggestion
[09:22] <ScottK> That or you could just file a bug against the package in Launchpad.
[09:23] <Windkracht8> true
[09:24] <Windkracht8> ubuntu launchpad, is it part of ubuntu?
[09:27] <Pici> Windkracht8: http://www.launchpad.net/ubuntu
[09:27] <Pici> Windkracht8: Its another of Canonical's projects
[09:28] <Windkracht8> ok, just retrieving launchpad password
[10:08] <Skiessi> could someone make a OpenGL-accelerated version of that speedmine-screensaver?
[10:12] <psusi> anyone familliar with lvm and its boot time pv discovery got time to chat?
[10:12] <psusi> trying to figure out how to resolve the brokenness of lvm on dmraid
[10:27] <tkamppeter_> Anyone here interested in testing new software?
[10:27] <tkamppeter_> I have packaged CUPS 1.3.0-rc2:
[10:28] <tkamppeter_> http://www.linux-foundation.org/~till/tmp/ubuntu/gutsy/cupsys13/
[10:28] <tkamppeter_> and we need testing results to decide whether we change to the new CUPS
[10:38] <elmo> err
[10:38] <elmo> "Welcome to the Ubuntu Team Wiki, a place for the Ubuntu community to discuss ideas and store team-related information."
[10:38] <elmo> when did it become a 'Team wiki'?
[10:39] <johanbr> tkamppeter: I'd be happy to do some testing. Getting the packages right now...
[10:39] <LaserJock> elmo: probably when help.ubuntu.com/community was split off
[10:41] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Home?action=diff&rev2=101&rev1=100
[10:41] <mdke> LaserJock is right, it was probably intended to distinguish it from the documentation wiki
[10:42] <mdke> we discussed the changes on the doc list; although not specifically the title
[10:42] <elmo> I think the change is a little drastic, personally
[10:45] <tkamppeter> johanbr: Great! Once you should test all cups functionality whether there is no regression against 1.2.x, then whether new features work (http://www.cups.org/documentation.php/whatsnew.html), and whether it works well together with hal-cups-utils and system-config-printer.
[10:46] <johanbr> tkamppeter: *all* cups functionality? I'm not sure I have the time or the hardware for that. :)
[10:47] <tkamppeter> johanbr, at least what you are using from CUPS, there is no one who has all printers which are listed on OpenPrinting ...
[10:50] <johanbr> tkamppeter: Alright. I'll report back soon.
[11:07] <johanbr> tkamppeter: snmp printer discovery and printing to lpd and ipp hosts works. system-config-printer seems to mostly work, but crashes on a very hacky custom printer queue I set up myself.
[11:14] <mikmorg> What is the ubuntu way to add init.d scripts into rc?.d/ folders?
[11:15] <mjg59> update-rc.d
[11:15] <mikmorg> ah, thanks!
[11:21] <tkamppeter> johanbr, please file a bug against system-config-printer and tell, step by step what you entered to make s-c-p crashing. Thanks. If your crash triggers apport (crash pop-up window) follow the steps of apport and enter what you did in the bugs report which gets generated.
[11:23] <johanbr> tkamppeter: Alright, that'll have to be later, have to go now. It was hardly an extensive test but cups 1.3 seems to work for me, anyway...
[11:26] <tkamppeter> johanbr, the CUPS which I have uploaded is a lemon, it does not see all PPDs. I will upload a new version (same file names, same place) soon, with this problem fixed.
[11:28] <TheInfinity> hello ... is it intention that nfs volumes are mountet after nfs volumes via fstab?
[11:28] <TheInfinity> argh
[11:28] <TheInfinity> local volumes after nfs volumes
[11:29] <TheInfinity> because its impossible with this default setting to mount anything in /home for example when home is an extra partition
[11:36] <phroom> I've build a fairly large project from source that I'd like to keep track of when I "make install". I've used checkinstall to create a debian package for this purpose but files in the resulting package conflict with a number of other packages on my system. I've looked around for a good strategy for removing potential conflicts from packages but nothing has come up. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
[11:36] <ScottK> Don't use checkinstall would be the first one.
[11:37] <prisca> some help starting kde4?
[11:37] <prisca> I did everthing in the instructions but still can't start kde4
[11:38] <phroom> ScottK: checkinstall does seem a bit like a hack, but I'm a packaging noob and it seems like the easiest way to keep track of what I've installed
[11:38] <prisca> looked at .xsession-errors but not sure what i'm looking for
[11:38] <ogra> prisca, #kubuntu ?
[11:38] <prisca> yes
[11:38] <prisca> wrong channel right?
[11:38] <ScottK> phroom: For assistance with how to package stuff, #ubuntu-motu is a better channel.
[11:38] <ogra> i mean: this is not a suport channel, did you try in #kubuntu
[11:38] <ogra> right :)
[11:39] <phroom> thx
[11:39] <prisca> yeah they sent me here
[11:39] <prisca> is there a channel for kde?
[11:40] <pygi> #kde ?
[11:41] <Riddell> kubuntu developers are in a meeting, wait half an hour
[11:43] <TheInfinity> hmm. any information about the network fs mounting before lokal fs?
[11:44] <TheInfinity> the debian guys say that it should be the other way round ...