[02:12] <gruelius> Does anyone have experience with apt-cacher? my client computers time out often for some reason.
[02:13] <lamont> Built successfully
[02:13] <lamont> Purging chroot-gutsy-stage0/build/buildd/linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22
[02:13] <lamont> sometimes walking away for a while helps.
[02:16] <gruelius> is that in relation to my question? lol
[02:24] <mralphabet> gruelius: no
[02:36] <lamont> gruelius: not at all
[02:36] <lamont> never used apt-cacher
[02:37] <gruelius> similar apps?
[02:33] <Remo_A> If by any chance someone in here is from switzerland or knows a good shared/dedicated server providing company or even better: a site, where those get compared to each other, I would greatly appreciate your link, thank you for your consideration :)
[02:34] <BenC`> mm, well in ch I dunno, but in France you have Dedibox and OVH (with Kimsufi)
[02:35] <Remo_A> thank you!
[02:35] <BenC`> http://www.dedibox.fr/ and http://www.kimsufi.com/
[02:35] <BenC`> you're welcome ;)
[02:35] <Remo_A> yes, already googled them
[02:35] <BenC`> ok :)
[02:40] <Remo_A> that's nice, they give you ssh access on kimsufi
[02:40] <BenC`> in dedibox too
[02:40] <BenC`> it's dedicated server ;)
[02:40] <Remo_A> yes, but that one is quite a bit expensive
[02:40] <BenC`> yeah, sure
[04:59] <mattwalston> Why are there so many how-to documents offering a fix for "slow to establish ssh connection" but a patch has not been offered?  Is this a feature that should be solved some other way?
[07:50] <cyclops> hello all
[09:56] <mattwalston> Any recomendations for an all-in-one mail server suite?  I do not care about MS Outlook.
[10:31] <kraut> mattwalston: it could be usefull to explain, for wich operating system you use a MUA. 
[10:31] <kraut> mattwalston: and there are many reasons, why a ssh connect takes much time.
[10:32] <kraut> mattwalston: it would be interesting, wich infos you with -v get.
[10:32] <mattwalston> kraut: as far as mail server, all machines are running 7.04
[10:32] <kraut> ah, you meant a MTA, not MUA.
[10:33] <kraut> the question is the same, wich religion you should prefer ;)
[10:33] <kraut> many people prefer exim, oter ones postfix or sendmail. i am using qmail, but i can't say, that i prefer it.
[10:34] <mattwalston> kraut: actually, i was wandering if anyone made a prepackaged all-in-one type thing, ala Zimbra or Scalix, i just want less bloat but the ease of administration as I have a lot to do around here
[10:34] <kraut> and what exactly do you mean with all-in-one?
[10:34] <kraut> mattwalston: then you need someone, who makes this for you.
[10:34] <kraut> you can't setup a mail-system within 5 minutes.
[10:35] <mattwalston> kraut: sure you can, just with about 4 gb of ram and a few headaches next week
[10:35] <mattwalston> kraut: zimbra is a pretty easy install, just big time bloated and slow to apply security updates
[10:35] <kraut> yep, but it's a topic wich you should take more seriously
[10:35] <kraut> wich services are included in zimbra?
[10:35] <kraut> smtp, pop, imap?
[10:36] <mattwalston> kraut: yes
[10:36] <mattwalston> kraut: it is ment more for the server appliance market
[10:36] <kraut> mattwalston: for what do you need this mail-system exactly?
[10:36] <kraut> only for a few accounts?
[10:36] <mattwalston> btw, the ssh -v shows the delay between these two lines: debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_ACCEPT received
[10:36] <mattwalston> debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey,password
[10:36] <kraut> or do you have severall thousand users on it?
[10:37] <mattwalston> 25 users
[10:37] <mattwalston> but they are huge mailboxes
[10:37] <kraut> then i would take something like exim and put the accounts into a mysql-database
[10:37] <mattwalston> it is an engeneering firm that saids scans of prints
[10:38] <kraut> exim is a mostly "easy to use" MUA i think
[10:38] <kraut> and for such a small system it would be enough
[10:38] <mattwalston> kraut: so definetly use virtual users?  all mail users have an account on the system
[10:38] <mattwalston> kraut: thanks, i will definetly look into it
[10:38] <kraut> hmmmmmm, good question
[10:39] <kraut> it would be better, to take virtual users, because you can't figure out, if everybody will have an account local in future
[10:39] <mattwalston> kraut: good point
[10:40] <kraut> do you want only serve pop?
[10:40] <mattwalston> kraut: i am doing this one by the seat of my pants, they have win 2k3 on 3 boxes for running autocad and simulation software, 2 application servers using ltsp, and 34 thin clients throughout office
[10:40] <kraut> or also imap?
[10:40] <mattwalston> kraut: preferably imap only
[10:40] <mattwalston> kraut: i hate pop but it may be the easiest
[10:40] <kraut> then exim+mysql and cyrus would be a nice setup i think
[10:41] <kraut> and you should also take a look on squirrelmail
[10:41] <kraut> it's a web-frontend for imap-mailboxes.
[10:41] <mattwalston> oh, for webmail?
[10:41] <kraut> perhaps a nice feature for them
[10:41] <kraut> yes
[10:42] <mattwalston> yeah
[10:42] <kraut> it depends on imap. nothing more.
[10:42] <lcdd> what is the benefit of using sql backend here?
[10:42] <kraut> lcdd: if you have the accounting data into a mysql-database, it's easier for other applications, to share this informations
[10:43] <kraut> lcdd: you create a user via exim and cyrus for example could use this information to serve imap-access.
[10:43] <lcdd> isn't ldap better suited and supported for that?
[10:43] <mattwalston> is there a way to move all the heavy lifting for the mail server to another machine but still deliver to local users maildir?  like via nfs mounting of /home?
[10:44] <kraut> lcdd: i think mysql is easier then ldap, but yes, that's also a soloution.
[10:44] <kraut> mattwalston: heavy lifting?
[10:44] <kraut> you mean the autocad-data?
[10:44] <mattwalston> kraut: I guess it is all relative, lol, i mean for isolation
[10:45] <kraut> don't understand you :/
[10:45] <mattwalston> kraut: i.e. machine 1 handles mta, mda and machine 2 handles /home's and ltsp with a nfs mounted /home
[10:45] <kraut> mattwalston: depends on virtual or local users
[10:46] <kraut> but with some tricks it's possible i think
[10:46] <mattwalston> kraut: i am liking local users, but am not completely opposed to virtual users, i just have not messed with them
[10:46] <mattwalston> kraut: ordinarily, i just outsource the email
[10:47] <kraut> that's a point that only you are able to evaluate ;)
[10:47] <mattwalston> is nfs still the prefered way to remote mount?
[10:47] <kraut> for linux/unix, yes.
[10:47] <kraut> but don't use 2.6.20 or 2.6.21
[10:48] <kraut> nfs-client is broken in this versions
[10:49] <mattwalston> great, all machines are 2.6.20
[10:49] <mattwalston> is that why i can only mount if i set nolock?
[10:50] <kraut> no, 2.6.20 will corrupt your data.
[10:50] <kraut> there are issues in write() i think.
[10:50] <kraut> or file-locking, don't know exactly
[10:51] <kraut> i am actually using 2.6.17 again and i am testing it now.
[10:51] <kraut> perhaps on wednesday i could rollout this kernel.
[10:53] <mattwalston> I know i have not had any problems with 2.6.17, used it awhile on my web servers
[10:53] <kraut> 2.6.17 has less issues, but forcedeth.c is for example a crappy-version
[10:54] <kraut> forcedeth.c is interesting for sun M2-series servers.
[10:57] <lcdd> isolating services is always a good idea, but if you need to set up nfs and shared user accounts because of it, i don't think it's worth the trouble at all
[11:00] <mattwalston> lcdd: that is what I am thinking... i am just nervous about having a machine handleing up to 14 or so ltsp clients running all sorts of stuff and also using it for email mta and mda
[11:00] <kraut> mattwalston: i would device this services
[11:21] <lcdd> mattwalston: i would probably take the lazy route and use the same server, but make sure ltsp clients are under reasonable system resource limits
[11:23] <mattwalston> lcdd: I think that is what I am going to do
[11:25] <boxrock> can anyone tell me how to get widescreen resolutions set on a thin-client ?
[11:26] <lcdd> mattwalston: if you expect the number of systems increase, then there will of course be good reasons to use some kind of central user management, be it ldap or sql or by copying /etc/passwd over the network etc.
[11:28] <NETWizz> Hello, at work I installed 37 Ubuntu computers on a LAN
[11:28] <poningru> NETWizz: yeah so the best thing would for you to set up your own repository
[11:28] <NETWizz> I wish to set them up to install packages automatically
[11:28] <NETWizz> Okay, that will be easy
[11:28] <NETWizz> But I still don't have time to go to all the computers and sudo apt-get install package... 37 times
[11:29] <poningru> there are crazier things like apt-caching across networks
[11:29] <poningru> NETWizz: oh hmm I see what you are saying
[11:29] <NETWizz> Can the systems be configured to do an update and upgrade from our own repository?
[11:29] <poningru> sounds like what you are looking for is ltsp
[11:29] <NETWizz> I want our systems to get a list of packages they are supposed to have installed and install those that are not installed
[11:29] <NETWizz> and remove those that are no longer on the list basically
[11:30] <poningru> right
[11:30] <NETWizz> ltsp?
[11:30] <poningru> yeah dude linux terminal server project
[11:30] <ivoks> no
[11:30] <poningru> ivoks: better solution?
[11:30] <NETWizz> NOpe we don't want to termininal server
[11:31] <ivoks> setup one machine
[11:31] <ivoks> and then get run dpkg --get-selections &> template
[11:31] <NETWizz> Basically I am doing a Windows to Linux Migration in one lab at a High School
[11:31] <ivoks> and on every computer: dpkg --set-selections < template ; apt-get dselect-upgrade
[11:31] <NETWizz> Currently our network comprises of 30 sites connected via WAN all running Windows XP Professional
[11:32] <NETWizz> I got permission to install Ubuntu on 37 machines at a High School
[11:32] <ivoks> or build your own .iso
[11:32] <NETWizz> or build my own iso?
[11:33] <NETWizz> Okay, so I can make a script to get a template every day
[11:33] <ivoks> no
[11:33] <ivoks> don't do that
[11:33] <ivoks> you want regular updates, right?
[11:33] <NETWizz> SUre
[11:33] <NETWizz> But I also want to be able to deploy applications
[11:33] <poningru> NETWizz: take a look at edubuntu
[11:33] <NETWizz> Right now with Windows, I can deploy applications to computers no problem
[11:34] <poningru> this sounds like exactly what this is for
[11:34] <ivoks> then yes, --get-selections
[11:34] <NETWizz> Does edubuntu support deploying apps
[11:34] <ivoks> what poningru suggests is diskless clients
[11:34] <ivoks> there's no deploying apps
[11:34] <ivoks> all computers use same filesystem
[11:35] <mattwalston> NETWizz: super easy...
[11:35] <ivoks> when you install app on one, it's installed on all
[11:35] <poningru> well you can have it with disks
[11:35] <NETWizz> What?
[11:35] <NETWizz> I install an app on one and it gets installed on all
[11:35] <NETWizz> HOw does that happen?
[11:35] <mattwalston> NETWizz: set-up a cron job on all machines to wget a script and run it from a central location
[11:35] <NETWizz> There must be a process
[11:35] <ivoks> 23:34 < ivoks> all computers use same filesystem
[11:35] <NETWizz> right they all use the same file system
[11:36] <ivoks> yes, network file system
[11:36] <NETWizz> Oh you mean I am going to do a network file system
[11:36] <NETWizz> and have only one system for all the computers
[11:36] <ivoks> right
[11:36] <NETWizz> That won't likely work
[11:36] <NETWizz> Too much network traffic
[11:36] <NETWizz> I can install squid
[11:37] <poningru> ... you can have it with disk
[11:37] <NETWizz> That would at least allow each computer to get updates without hammering the network
[11:37] <ivoks> why do you think it is too much network traffic?
[11:37] <ivoks> they don't send/recive whole filesystem, only needed parts
[11:37] <NETWizz> Because if this project works, we will probably setup hundreds of computers
[11:37] <mattwalston> NETWizz: nfs the /var/cache/apt/archives and add a cronjob to run script from server
[11:38] <NETWizz> okay
[11:38] <NETWizz> I could just rsync the archives
[11:38] <mattwalston> NETWizz: yeah
[11:38] <ivoks> there's always cfengine
[11:38] <NETWizz> what would the scripts do?
[11:38] <NETWizz> tell it to install everything in archives?
[11:38] <ivoks> it would do what you want and write in it
[11:39] <NETWizz> okay thanks
[11:39] <mattwalston> NETWizz: whatever you wanted, it would just run on all computer... i.e. apt-get update; apt-get upgrade;
[11:39] <poningru> NETWizz: http://blog.nixternal.com/stuff/doc/handbook/handbook/C/ltsp-scp.html
[11:40] <mattwalston> NETWizz: there is probably a better option out there
[11:40] <ivoks> mattwalston: for that, there's unattended-upgrades
[11:40] <mattwalston> ivoks: thanks, will look at it, probably much more secure than letting the root user wget a script and run it... time to backup and punt
[11:41] <poningru> NETWizz: I really think that you should look into edubuntu
[11:41] <poningru> it is designed for this minus the hdd but that doesnt mean you cnat use it
[11:42] <NETWizz> I will look into edubuntu
[11:42] <NETWizz> thanks
[11:42] <NETWizz> Remote logout!
[11:42] <NETWizz> That sound snice
[11:43] <NETWizz> Does edubuntu get installed on dozens of machines?
[11:43] <poningru> right
[11:43] <poningru> one server and the rest client
[11:48] <NETWizz> plessus looks like gpedit
[11:48] <NETWizz> not quite as much stuff
[11:48] <mattwalston> NETWizz: edubuntu pushes for thinclient usage
[11:49] <mattwalston> NETWizz: you might consider running x11vnc on the student machines, then you can snoop, take control and shadow to demonstrate something
[11:50] <NETWizz> I am not a teacher
[11:50] <mattwalston> NETWizz: you can also password the screen saver and execute from commandline to blank screens
[11:50] <NETWizz> Just an IT Person
[11:50] <NETWizz> I wonder if they have italc
[11:50] <poningru> italc?
[11:51] <mattwalston> NETWizz: no
[11:51] <NETWizz> You have heard of italc then hugh?
[11:51] <mattwalston> NETWizz: i think it is nt only, we used to piss off our computer teacher by bringing in livecds and booting and his software would not blank us
[11:51] <mattwalston> NETWizz: yeah, real big on k12 with xp clients and nt server
[11:52] <NETWizz> What do you mean?
[11:52] <mattwalston> NETWizz: I spoke too quickly, i think it doea
[11:52] <NETWizz> did they use Synchroneyes or something silly like that?
[11:52] <gigabytes> hello everybody
[11:52] <NETWizz> Regardless, it would be trivial to turn that stuff off
[11:53] <gigabytes> I think there is a bug in ubuntu server
[11:53] <mattwalston> NETWizz: i think, italc is aparently open source, they had some propreitary thing
[11:53] <NETWizz> I am an IT Administrator and found iTalc works well
[11:55] <NETWizz> sorry
[11:55] <NETWizz> Beryl Crashed
[11:56] <NETWizz> Okay
[11:56] <NETWizz> I will give it a try
[11:56] <NETWizz> edubutnu
[11:57] <mattwalston> NETWizz: i have yet to use edubuntu, but essentially it has a lot of features for ltsp built in
[11:58] <mattwalston> NETWizz: i am on an ltsp client connecting to an ubuntu system right now in a engeneering office that I am implenting a thin client solution for their email, webbrowsing, inter office stuff with rdp connections via rdesktop to win 2k3 machines for autocad and stuff
[12:00] <mattwalston> NETWizz: for administrative purposes i even run the win2k3 inside of virtual machines on a linux host, much easier to administer and very flexible, maybe your school is able to glean something from this deployment
[12:01] <NETWizz> I have a full district to work with
[12:01] <NETWizz> Currently I have moved some Windows Servers to VMWARE
[12:01] <NETWizz> It was a cakewalk to move them to Ubuntu Server
[12:03] <mattwalston> NETWizz: definetly, something to look at is rdesktop's SeamlessRDP mode for your clients
[12:03] <mattwalston> NETWizz: it establishes rdp to a ts server and uses an alternative shell that sends only the application to the linux client
[12:04] <mattwalston> NETWizz: i have quickbooks ent 7 running that way for a client and it appears native
[12:05] <maccam912> hello all. I have an ubuntu server set up, and have a few questions to get it running better than it currently is set up for.
[12:06] <maccam912> right now when remote people try to connect to my server, they have to use port 2010, and it works, but for some reason when I try to set it up for port 80 (so they don't need the :2010 after the url) I can get to my website, but no remote users can.
[12:06] <NETWizz> I know
[12:06] <NETWizz> I have been working with that
[12:06] <maccam912> is there something in the operating system that I dont know about that stops remote people from getting on port 80?
[12:07] <NETWizz> #!/bin/bash
[12:07] <NETWizz> rdesktop -rsound -A -s "c:\seamlessrdp\seamlessrdpshell.exe c:\windows\explorer.exe" 10.24.5.25 -u Linux -p ubuntu
[12:07] <NETWizz> Only thing is that it doesn't seem to support Active Directory
[12:07] <maccam912> NETWizz are you just an average joe user like me, or are you like a developer that is trying to fix the problem?
[12:07] <NETWizz> I really need to have it popup an active directory login
[12:08] <NETWizz> I am an average joe
[12:08] <maccam912> and you have the same problem with that?
[12:08] <NETWizz> However, I am a dilettante or you might call me a dabbler 
[12:08] <maccam912> same here
[12:09] <mattwalston> NETWizz: i can login using a samba pdc, just set the workgroup option to your domain, as far as prompting for a login, not too sure
[12:09] <maccam912> do you think it might be something with my router instead?
[12:09] <NETWizz> I doubt it
[12:09] <mattwalston> NETWizz: come to think of it, it should be able to prompt
[12:09] <NETWizz> I wonder if I remove the username and password
[12:09] <NETWizz> It might prompt
[12:09] <NETWizz> That is what I need anway
[12:09] <NETWizz> and Terminal services installed on the 2003 box