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[01:40] <nixternal> OK, the hardest thing for a cpu-z Linux port imbrandon, is going to be all of the cpu images :)
[01:40] <nixternal> CPU tab in gui is complete...only took a year :)
[01:40] <nixternal> bbl, dinner
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[01:41] <mhb> kwwii: you should be sleeping at two in the morning :o)
[01:42] <kwwii> mhb: no doubt...thought I would check in after being gone all weekend
[01:43] <mhb> kwwii: ah. by the way, is that your work that the gutsy inactive windows look like Ubuntu's?
[01:43] <kwwii> mhb: erm, not sure what you mean exactly
[01:44] <kwwii> I changed the wallpaper and the colors used for the style
[01:44] <mhb> kwwii: the inactive window decoration has the same colour as the window background
[01:44] <kwwii> if there is a problem with the colors, please let me know
[01:44] <mhb> kwwii: no, it's nice
[01:44] <kwwii> :p
[01:45] <kwwii> man, I had a long day, driving, don't give me shit now :-)
[01:45] <mhb> kwwii: I wanted to give you kudos .o)
[01:46] <kwwii> thanks :-)
[01:47] <kwwii> I wish I had more time for kubuntu, it is important, as important as the other 3+ projects I am working on atm
[01:50] <mhb> kwwii: yeah... don't worry, we're all happy with what you do for kubuntu
[01:53] <kwwii> luckily I am not dead yet - still a bit to do
[01:53] <kwwii> for one, I need to install Gutsy :p
[01:55] <kwwii> actually, I almost have a list of thigns
[01:55] <kwwii> things
[01:56] <kwwii> change the outside pixel border of the active progress pic with an existing color in the palette
[01:56] <kwwii> for the usplash, that is
[01:56] <kwwii> update the logo for kdm and ksplash
[01:56] <kwwii> etc
[01:56] <kwwii> anyway, time for bed here
[01:56] <mhb> goodnight kwwii
[01:56] <kwwii> see you soon :-)
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[05:15] <mhb> good morning Hobbsee
[05:16] <Hobbsee> hiya mhb!
[05:20] <ScottK> mhb: I thought you'd be asleep.  Need more testing help?
[05:21] <Hobbsee> hmm.  i should install kde4 while i'm here
[05:23] <mhb> ScottK: sure, just bzr up and try it :-)
[05:23] <mhb> ScottK: I've been fixing bugs all night
[05:26] <ScottK> mhb: If I do it now, is it going to explode my system?
[05:27] <mhb> ScottK: I don't think so :o)
[05:27] <ScottK> Anything in particular you need looked at?
=== Hobbsee WTF's?
[05:28] <mhb> ScottK: just check if the systemsettings works, an enabling/disabling.
[05:28] <Hobbsee> bug 56136
[05:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 56136 in kubuntu-meta "[WishList]  Xchat default in Kubuntu instead of Xchat-gnome" [Wishlist,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/56136
[05:28] <Hobbsee> how on *earth* did they get that?
[05:28] <ScottK> mhb: OK
[05:33] <mhb> ScottK: also you may have not noticed but revision 182 contains credits to you! You are now forever bound with restricted-manager-kde :o)
[05:33] <ScottK> No, I hadn't noticed.
[05:34] <ScottK> Where would I have found that?
[05:34] <ScottK> As Hobbsee will attest, I am severely bzr impaired.
[05:34] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:34] <Hobbsee> arent we all?
[05:35] <mhb> ScottK: bzr log, or bzr viz for the people who like shiny
[05:36] <ScottK> K
[05:37] <mhb> ScottK: I feel like I should do something for you, since you helped me that much with testing
[05:37] <mhb> ScottK: I better start on that update-manager bug
[05:37] <ScottK> No.  I'm happy.  I just managed to crash bzr so I get to report a fun bug.
[05:37] <ScottK> mhb: You said you had a little C, right?
[05:38] <mhb> ScottK: yeah
[05:38] <ScottK> I've got a problem I'd like some help solving when you have a little time.
[05:39] <mhb> ScottK: you can tell me now, I won't sleep until the restricted-manager gets reviewed anyway
[05:39] <ScottK> OK.
[05:39] <ScottK> It's a clamav problem (sort of)
[05:40] <ScottK> If you have a version installed in /usr/local (which is what klamav will do if you let it upgrade) freshclam when it checks to see if you are out of date, stops checking one it finds the one in /usr/local.
[05:41] <ScottK> Which can lead to bizzare results.
[05:41] <ScottK> Gimme a sec, I'll find the bug.
[05:41] <ScottK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clamav/+bug/130385
[05:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130385 in clamav "Freshclam ignores system clamav version if user version is installed" [Undecided,New] 
[05:42] <ScottK> What I think it should do is look at both the usr/local and system versions and use the latest to decide about complaining and also if the /usr/local one is the same or older than the system one strongly suggest it be deleted.
[05:43] <ScottK> Sound fun?
[05:43] <mhb> sure, why not
[05:43] <mhb> let's fetch the source and take a look
[05:43] <ScottK> I've looked at the code and it doesn't seem like it'd be extremely hard if I knew any C at all.
[05:43] <ScottK> Cool.
[05:54] <mhb> ScottK: hmm
[05:55] <ScottK> Yeah?
[05:57] <mhb> ScottK: I probably am super stupid, but it seems to me that manager.c is comparing cl_retver() to never, and cl_retver() shows the current version. The cl_retver() function seems to be defined in libclamav/others.c .
[05:57] <ScottK> Yeah.
[05:58] <mhb> ScottK: and it seems it just returns a preprocessed VERSION string passed by the Makefile.
[05:58] <ScottK> But if you look at the bug, you'll see that freshclam also knows what version IT is.
[05:58] <mhb> yeah, I've seen that.
[05:58] <ScottK> In the case in question, I had a usr/local 0.90.3 and a system 0.90.1
[05:59] <mhb> could it be that freshclam is loading a shared library with a different version than it is itself?
[05:59] <ScottK> And so I'd think if freshclam discovers it's a later version than cl_retver() then that's a clue that something needs to be changed.
[06:00] <mhb> let me experiment a bit, so I can be sure
[06:00] <ScottK> My other thought was to just mod the preinst to kill off any clamav's in /usr/local, but that wouldn't be nice.
[06:02] <ScottK> mhb: BTW, you broke krm again: http://kitterman.com/kubuntu/krm1.png
[06:03] <ScottK> Just in case you were getting sleepy.
[06:03] <mhb> ScottK: really?
[06:04] <ScottK> Did you look at the screen shot?
[06:04] <mhb> ScottK: what happens if your run it from the cmd line?
[06:04] <mhb> (restricted-manager-kde)
[06:05] <ScottK> I'll try
[06:05] <ScottK> cannot import name fwulrretrieve
[06:06] <mhb> ScottK: you must have an outdated version
[06:06] <mhb> ScottK: of something
[06:07] <mhb> ScottK: try bzr up, try also to install the correct (arch-dependent) .deb package.
[06:07] <ScottK> http://paste.ubbuntu-nl.org/32722/
[06:07] <ScottK> Ah.
[06:08] <ScottK> Didn't notice you changed it to arch dependent.
[06:08] <mhb> ScottK: that was a big mistake of mine - there was some kcm_ compiling, so I had to do it
[06:08] <ScottK> OK
[06:14] <mhb> ScottK: okay, tests completed.
[06:14] <mhb> ScottK: and I was correct
[06:14] <ScottK> OK.
[06:14] <mhb> freshclam doesn't check the executable, it (practically) checks the library it was linked with
[06:15] <ScottK> So it was continuing to use the old /usr/local version of the library.
[06:15] <ScottK> Urgh.
[06:15] <mhb> martin@blackbook:~/processing/clamav-0.91.1$ ldd ./freshclam/.libs/freshclam libclamav.so.2 => /usr/lib/libclamav.so.2 (0x00002aac9798c000)
[06:15] <mhb> therefore:
[06:15] <mhb> martin@blackbook:~/processing/clamav-0.91.1$ ./freshclam/.libs/freshclam --version
[06:16] <mhb> 0.91.1
[06:16] <mhb> ClamAV 0.150/3874/Mon Aug
[06:16] <mhb> I apologize for the pastes.
[06:16] <mhb> but it's six in the morning :o)
[06:16] <ScottK> No problem.
[06:16] <mhb> (the first number is what cl_retval() shows, the other number is what freshclam has hardcoded in
[06:16] <ScottK> Latest krm is installing now.
[06:17] <ScottK> Well that makes it sound even more reasonable that freshclam should raise a stink if they don't agree.
[06:17] <mhb> ScottK: suggestion:
[06:17] <mhb> ScottK: make the cv_retval() function built in the freshclam binary
[06:18] <mhb> ScottK: result:
[06:18] <mhb> ScottK: freshclam always has its own number hardcoded
[06:19] <mhb> it's not retval, it's retver
[06:21] <ScottK> http://paste.ubbuntu-nl.org/32723/ is the latest (it worked)
[06:23] <mhb> ScottK: copy cl_retver function from libclamav/others.c to freshclam/manager.c and your problem will be solved.
[06:23] <ScottK> mhb: Thanks.  I'll have a look when I get some time.  Thanks.
[06:23] <mhb> ScottK: which is the rough fix; the clean fix is to inform the authorities that you need to have the cl-retver function within the binary.
[06:24] <ScottK> Right.  Make it work, first.
[06:24] <mhb> ScottK: you're welcome. I just tested it and it shows the same version like freshclam binary.
[06:24] <mhb> just copy the 4 lines and it's done.
[06:25] <ScottK> Thanks.
[06:28] <ScottK> mhb: Here's a good screenshot for you: http://kitterman.com/kubuntu/krm2.png
[06:30] <mhb> ScottK: nice, thank you.
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[06:34] <mhb> now, let's bring out the big guns and triage the konsole kpart crash
[06:36] <ScottK> Yeah!
[06:37] <ScottK> mhb: It still happens (I just re-ran the reduced test case_.
[06:38] <mhb> ScottK: I know, I upgraded my old desktop to gutsy and I see it too.
[06:38] <ScottK> Cool.
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[06:42] <nixternal> ahhh! the infamous "lets rename Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and Edubuntu to Ubuntu something or other" is back!
[06:42] <mhb> nixternal: that and adept
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[08:38] <tmske> Hi, will tracker be the default search engine for kubuntu too?
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[09:27] <_StefanS_> Riddell: hey, did you see those ideas for naming on all *buntu's ? I think its a good idea actually.
[09:27] <_StefanS_> Riddell: (maybe the names should be discussed in more detail though)
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[11:01] <marseillai> in feisty with backport strigi-daemon fail to install because it looks for dbus-x11 but it doesn't exist in feisty
[11:02] <marseillai> this dependencis should not exist i think
[11:16] <fabo> marseillai: dbus-x11 replace dbus in gutsy so for a backport you need to use dbus
[11:16] <marseillai> fabo: yes i've see that
[11:16] <marseillai> fabo what i mean is that strigi package in feisty backport depends on dbus-x11, it is a mistake
[11:17] <fabo> k
[11:17] <marseillai> fabo: you are the maintainer of strigi-daemon in ubuntu ?
[11:18] <marseillai> fabo: i remember you... ;) in the past i used your repo to test strigi! ;)
[11:18] <fabo> must be jesse/riddell if i remember
[11:19] <fabo> sorry lure/riddell :)
[11:20] <fabo> Riddell: ^^^
[11:27] <Riddell> err, I changed that
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[01:23] <Riddell> apachelogger: recon these amarok people can be persuaded to change to gpl 2+? http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/KDE-extragear-GPLv2-only-copyright-holders
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[01:30] <apachelogger> Riddell: shouldn't be problem from what I see. also it's already on our todo, dirk mueller already talked to us since trolltech's GPL exception clause makes it finally possible to use non-gpl licensed codecs
[01:30] <apachelogger> so AFAIK we try to get everything to 2+
[01:31] <Riddell> it was possible to use non-gpl codecs before?
[01:33] <apachelogger> well, novell always came up with strange license things....
[01:48] <Riddell> mhb: you didn't depend on pyqt -dev?
[01:48] <Riddell> and didn't add a changelog?
[01:49] <mhb> Riddell: ah, my bad.
[01:49] <Riddell> and does pyqt -dev have sane depends?
[01:50] <mhb> Riddell: pyqt-dev? apt-cache search python-qt3 shows no dev package.
[01:52] <Riddell> sorted :)
[01:52] <Riddell> although there is one for pyqt 4
[01:53] <mhb> Riddell: sorted as in you did the changelog?
[01:54] <Riddell> as in pyqt3 doesn't have a -dev
[01:54] <Riddell> I can add a changelog if you want, but you won't get the credit you deserve
[01:54] <mhb> okay, I'll do it
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[02:03] <mhb> Riddell: incoming another wave
[02:20] <ScottK> mhb: Have you slept yet?
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[02:26] <mhb> ScottK: sure, three hours or so
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[02:32] <Riddell> mhb: pykde3 uploaded
[02:33] <ScottK> mhb: Glad to hear it.
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[02:33] <ScottK> Hello Hobbsee
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[02:36] <stdin> hmm, how come kate is in kde4sdk in gutsy (and in kde4base in feisty) ?
[02:36] <fabo> Riddell: about pyqt4, i saw a thread about it.
=== fabo searching the issue
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[02:37] <Riddell> waa, amd64 alternate CD is oversized
[02:37] <Riddell> it's grown by 12MB overnight
[02:38] <Hobbsee> ouch
[02:38] <Hobbsee> old kernel not removed?
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[02:39] <fabo> Riddell: i don't knwo if you are affected too, anyway the pointer -> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2007/08/msg00281.html
[02:41] <Riddell> I'd go for "2) make python-qt4-dev depend in python-qt4"
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[02:41] <Riddell> whyever shouldn't a -dev package depend on its non -dev equivalent?
[02:41] <ScottK> mhb: What did you fix in python-kde3?
[02:42] <mhb> ScottK: I made the -dev package dependent on the pytho-kde3 one
[02:42] <ScottK> Ah.
[02:42] <ScottK> I was hoping for something dramatic on the kpart problem.
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[02:43] <mhb> ScottK: not yet, I'm afraid
[02:43] <mhb> ScottK: python-kde3 build takes ages on slower computers
[02:44] <ScottK> Yes, it does.
[02:44] <ScottK> Approaching infinity on my slower computer
[02:46] <mhb> ScottK: I fell asleep because of it :o) the downside is that my favourite method "try doing crazy stuff with the code and see if it helps" method fails here
[02:47] <stdin> Riddell: did you know kate is in kde4sdk in gutsy and in kde4base in feisty ?
[02:48] <Riddell> stdin: yes
[02:48] <stdin> any reason?
=== ScottK waits for him to say "Yes".
[02:49] <Riddell> changes in packages
[02:49] <Riddell> use the feisty-backports for new kde 4 packages
[02:49] <stdin> ah, ok
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[02:54] <mhb> Riddell: by the way, there's one thing I wanted to discuss with you
[02:55] <mhb> Riddell: we should move some language pack files from gnome to a common package
[02:55] <mhb> Riddell: because gdebi and restricted-manager share their translations with their GNOME counterparts
[02:56] <Riddell> mhb: yes, I don't know how it's decided where they go, but talk to pitti and Arby about it (maybe after tribe 4)
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[03:59] <toma_> Hi all, what's the best time to catch tonio ?
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[04:00] <Riddell> hard to say, he's not on at regular times, only when he has spare time at work
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[04:02] <toma_> Riddell: allright. I will mail him then
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[04:54] <seele> http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,135545-c,linux/article.html
[04:56] <Riddell> "the apt-get packaging tool is very cool"  somehow I just can't see BT saying that to a journalist :)
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[05:12] <Hobbsee> !info libgcj8 gutsy
[05:12] <ubotu> Package libgcj8 does not exist in gutsy
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[05:43] <manchicken_> Interesting.  The description field in adept updater seems to have been replaced by the maintainer string.
[05:48] <fabo> Riddell: for strigi feisty-backport, 0.5.5 tagged, you can skip 0.5.4
[05:50] <Riddell> oh, cool
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[06:08] <ScottK> I've got a bzr branch of kdepim checked out.  What's the bzr magic to get all the changes from the trunk to resync my branch?  Help please?
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[06:09] <Riddell> bzr merge
[06:10] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.
[06:10] <Riddell> ScottK: but I just uploaded kdepim and I entirely forgot about putting changes in bzr
=== Hobbsee has a k-d-s upload that isnt in bzr either
[06:10] <Hobbsee> we should probably sanitize our bzr setup, at some point
[06:11] <ScottK> OK.
=== ScottK will apt-get source then.
[06:11] <Riddell> ScottK: 3.5.7-1ubuntu7 it the latest
[06:11] <ScottK> OK.
[06:12] <ScottK> I guess I'll wait a bit and try again.
[06:12] <ScottK> I just got ubuntu6
[06:12] <Riddell> uploaded kdepim_3.5.7-1ubuntu7.diff.gz to kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/kdepim_3.5.7-1ubuntu7.diff.gz and .dsc
[06:13] <ScottK> Ah, not to the official repos yet?
[06:13] <ScottK> BTW, kdepim (4:3.5.7-1ubuntu4) is the last version in bzr.
[06:14] <Riddell> yes to the offical archive, but the publisher won't run for another 50 minutes
[06:16] <ScottK> Ah.
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[06:57] <mhb> In my opinion, the current Kubuntu buttons could use some facelifting. IMHO the gradient is unnecessary (and not so good looking), the minimize/maximize/close signs are out of line and also stretched horizontally too much.
[06:59] <mhb> I've got a screenshot that illustrates it - http://bayimg.com/MAfDCAabf . You can easily notice the strangely positioned signs within the buttons. The comparison buttons are Mirage buttons, IMO more sober, without too much gradient and all in line.
[07:01] <mhb> kwwii: ^^ it would be interesting for me to hear your opinion on the buttons. I know you made them and I appreciate that, so don't take my personal opinion too much :o)
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[07:02] <mhb> and I'd like to hear from others too, whether they'd appreciate some changes in the buttons or not. Thanks!
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[07:03] <ScottK> mhb: Why are you making buttons and not fixing Konsole...
[07:03] <ScottK> ;-)
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[07:04] <lnxkde> sup
[07:05] <mhb> ScottK: it's not even my creation. I'm like thousands of others who can criticise, but cannot create anything with value.
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[07:05] <mhb> ScottK: luckily, GPL art is free to copy :o)
[07:06] <ScottK> Enough fun.  Back to work.
[07:06] <mhb> ScottK: but you're right. I better go check if the python-kde3 compilation finished.
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[07:33] <Riddell> "Accepting restricted-manager,restricted-manager_0.25_i386"  mhb ^^
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[08:06] <mhb> Riddell: groovy
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[09:02] <mhb> is 'kamera' used by anything?
[09:03] <mhb> If not, I would vote for removing it from kubuntu-desktop Recommends. Digikam doesn't seem to depend on it.
[09:04] <Riddell> I use it all the time
[09:07] <mhb> Riddell: well, I can't argue against that.
[09:10] <mhb> Riddell: well, I could say an archive admin and professional GNU/Linux developer could be skilled enough to apt-get install it, and there are other tools that could benefit the common user more than a KIO slave, but I won't :o)
[09:10] <Riddell> one day I might give digikam another go
[09:14] <mhb> Riddell: we could drop (understand: demote from the CD) more kio slaves now that konqueror will be profiled as a web browser
[09:14] <mhb> Riddell: kio-apt, or kio-locate (if strigi will be in gutsy)
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[09:23] <Riddell> yeah, I'd like to drop kio-locate
[09:23] <Riddell> but we'll see, when strigi 1.5.5 is in
[09:23] <Riddell> fdoving: was there a new kio-apt I was to upload?
[09:24] <Riddell> I wonder if anyone uses kio-apt
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[09:24] <Riddell> gdebi and adept should be good enough
[09:24] <mhb> I guess everyone who uses kio-apt is able to manage apt-get as well
[09:24] <mhb> or adept
[09:42] <mhb> offtopic: ooh, reading apt-cache depends kubuntu-desktop really is interesting. I never knew there is an adaptive readahead tool in Ubuntu. Why isn't it turned on by default?
[09:42] <Riddell> nixternal: did you write the main inclusion report for kvxkb?
[09:43] <Riddell> mhb: because you have to make the list of files to readahead at some point, and that slows down bootup (once)
[09:52] <kwwii> mhb: one thing that that screenshot cannot show is the mouse-over effects
[09:58] <mhb> kwwii: those are nice, but they can be added to many kinds of buttons. I was talking more about the general appearance.
[09:59] <kwwii> mhb: you really like the look you posted more than the blue?
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[09:59] <fdoving> Riddell: there is a new kio-apt, but i guess we should consider removing it, in favour of some apt:/install=package kind of thing, which i read ubuntu is experimenting with.
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[10:05] <Riddell> fdoving: url?
[10:05] <mhb> kwwii: I really like the buttons' appearance more in some ways I talked about. Colours are fine.
[10:05] <mhb> kwwii: I like your colour selection, I was just experimenting when I made the screen shot.
[10:05] <kwwii> I cannot imagine using the grey buttons on a blue background
[10:05] <mhb> kwwii: me neither (much), but I can imagine a button with signs in line and buttons with less gradients on a blue background :o)
[10:05] <kwwii> mhb: are there versions ready to be used in the blue theme?
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[10:12] <mhb> kwwii: the buttons were cut from a screenshot of a GTK theme and inserted into the Crystal kwin theme.
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[10:15] <fdoving> Riddell: kio-apt: http://ubuntu.lnix.net/archive/gutsy/ it's kio-apt_0.13.2-2ubuntu2, apturl, the fancy project: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/apt-firefox-archive-handler
[10:15] <kwwii> mhb: lol, that is a long way from getting into kde :p
[10:15] <mhb> kwwii: so they can be adapted as much as the current ones can
[10:15] <kwwii> mhb: make a theme using them, you might be right that they are better
[10:15] <mhb> kwwii: okay, I'll try. Thanks for the support!
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[10:25] <nixternal> Riddell: not yet on the kvkbd MIR...how much time do we have left? or does this need to be done now?
[10:26] <nixternal> I was thinking about seeing where he got on the 1 button access/macros
[10:26] <nixternal> as it stands, the kvkbd display has the num pad now and is also resizable
[10:32] <Riddell> two weeks
[10:35] <mhb> Riddell: if we're going to promote kvkbd into main, then there's little need to code onboard-qt, is there?
[10:35] <Riddell> mhb: onboard is a much nicer app, I'd much rather see it as our chosen app if it exists
[10:36] <mhb> Riddell: I still can't launch it without a segfault, can you?
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[10:40] <Riddell> works for me mhb
[10:40] <Riddell> mhb: try for a new user?
[10:47] <nixternal> Riddell: OK, if I don't hear anything back about kvkbd's status, I will go ahead and get the ball rolling on the MIR. I will get it typed up and what not so it is ready in the mean time
[10:47] <mhb> Riddell: two computers with different architectures (both gutsy) ... two segfaults
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[11:07] <mhb> kwwii: http://mhb.ath.cx/tmp/mirage-theme-test1.png
[11:08] <kwwii> mhb: I would want the buttons to blend into the background color...the grey buttons is quite retro
[11:15] <Riddell> mhb: try running onboard-settings
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[11:15] <Riddell> and select a layout
[11:15] <mhb> Riddell: thank you. That worked.
[11:15] <mhb> kwwii: okay, I will try.
[11:15] <Riddell> mhb: you can now run onboard?
[11:15] <mhb> Riddell: yes, selecting "scan" layout helped.
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[11:22] <Riddell> mhb: hmm, I wonder how that doesn't affect more people
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[11:24] <ScottK> nixternal: Just got the latest taskjuggler sync'ed from Debian (it was you that mentioned that, wasn't it?)
[11:25] <nixternal> mhb: when using Qt 4 Designer, do you pyuic4 the files or is there a way to read the .ui files natively?
[11:25] <nixternal> ScottK: yes
[11:25] <ScottK> We still had the 2.4 beta and now it's the final.
[11:25] <mhb> nixternal: you can read them natively
[11:26] <nixternal> do you import the same way you would a .py file?
[11:26] <nixternal> from foo.ui import foo
[11:27] <mhb> nixternal: no, you load it using the uic module
[11:27] <mhb> from PyQt4 import uic
[11:27] <nixternal> ahhh
[11:34] <mhb> window = uic.LoadUi("pathtoui.ui")
[11:34] <nixternal> rock on!
[11:43] <stdin> are there any other (packaged) kde4 plasmoids yet?
[11:45] <Riddell> no
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=== stdin sings I-ho, I-ho, it s-v-n I go...
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