=== kalikiana [n=kalikian@xdsl-87-78-35-220.netcologne.de] has joined #xubuntu === xcoder [n=xcoder@enm6.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #xubuntu === xcoder [n=xcoder@enm6.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #xubuntu [] === pfein_ is now known as pfein === txwikinger [n=txwiking@sblug/member/txwikinger] has joined #xubuntu === DivideZero [i=DivideZe@85.65.5.70.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #xubuntu === DivideZero [i=DivideZe@85.65.5.70.dynamic.barak-online.net] has left #xubuntu [] === Jester45 [n=Jester45@d9-161.rt-bras.wnvl.centurytel.net] has joined #xubuntu [01:44] filling /boot can lead to mysterious problems [01:44] why would you want to fill it [01:54] Jester45: I didn't on purpose. [01:55] run df so you know whats going on with space :) === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #xubuntu === s|k_ [n=bjorn@c-69-181-8-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #xubuntu === nextse7en [n=nextse7e@71.237.208.201] has joined #xubuntu [02:00] Does xubuntu come with a wireless network utility so I don't have to type in my ssid? === Catoptromancy_ [n=cat@fl-71-1-235-150.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #xubuntu [02:02] it has a utility to setup your network but i think you still have to type it in [02:03] Odd, its see's the wireless interface, both in lspci and in the network settings dialog. But when I type in the ssid, and the other info its asking for, I'm still not connected. [02:03] did you press connect [02:03] I don't see a connect button. [02:04] i do not think it being in lspci means its working [02:04] Right, but its also in Network setting dialog, it recognizes it at a wireless connection. [02:05] its a check box === s|k_ [n=bjorn@c-69-181-8-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #xubuntu [02:06] Ahh yes, I have enabled it, I wonder if I need to specifie dns servers for it as well. [02:07] it would probly be the ip of your router === s|k_ is now known as s|k [02:33] how can i look at my cpu temp? [02:33] acpi way [02:36] nevermind i got it === nextse7en_ [n=nextse7e@71.237.208.201] has joined #xubuntu === Rockinghorse [n=me@cpe-76-87-154-6.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #xubuntu === Laibsch [n=Laibsch@p54B96782.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #xubuntu === merhojt [n=Jimmy@h42n4c1o885.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #xubuntu === Laibsc1 [n=Laibsch@p54B96B31.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #xubuntu === woodtech [n=rmcilmoy@d141-26-138.home.cgocable.net] has joined #xubuntu [03:33] I am trying to solve sounds under xubuntu; everywhere I go I'm refered to system / preferences / sounds, but at least my install of xubuntu does not have that. Am I missing something in my install ? [03:35] Accessories System Settings [03:36] I don't happen to have that as an entry in my menu's either ... [03:36] Really? I do [03:37] I know, I did a full install right from a freshly burnt CD .. [03:38] It's a kde app, may not be in ur install. [03:38] have you tried alsamixer? [03:40] That runs and shows volume, etc. I can play a movie etc. What I'm after is notification sounds etc [03:41] It's like my system is totally on mute unless I play a movie [03:46] if it's a kde app would you happen to know the name/path that I might just directly call it? [03:46] I know in ubuntu there are sounds associated with system events,etc. [03:46] I was just trying to find it. [03:47] Is that an aspect that is not included in xubuntu? [03:47] Oh, great thanks [03:48] I was running Vista, and just got tired of the extremely sluggish performance so I thought I'd go back to linux. [03:48] Figured, xubuntu would be the best for performance === Pelo [n=jean@64.18.74.30] has joined #xubuntu [03:49] knoppix is pretty fast for being kde [03:50] gentoo would probly be 2nd best with lfs be first for speed [03:50] evening folks, I need a little help to make a shortcut which I can't seem to get back, the rename applet that comes with thunar, can someone check the launcher in the menues and tell me what the command to start it is ? [03:50] application, settings, settings manager not on ur menu, woodtech [03:50] Pelo, the multipule renamer [03:51] Jester45, yes [03:51] hold on [03:51] that's the single most usefull utility I've ever encountered [03:52] i dont know the command but you can get it by selecting 2 or more files and pressing rename [03:53] Jester45, I don'T run xubuntu, I'm in ubuntu, it's not installed by default, and even if I reinstall it ( which i just did ) the menu entry disapeared and I can't seem to get it back [03:53] Yes, I have that and it has 'Sound' as an option but that only lists 'useful controls' [03:53] look in /usr/share/applications [03:53] Jester45, thanks === Vorian [n=Steve@ubuntu/member/pdpc.supporter.active.Vorian] has joined #xubuntu [03:55] ThunarBulkRename %F [03:55] thanks Jester45 [03:55] welcome [03:55] i would of looked for you but i deleted mine [03:56] the only thing I can think is adjust your settings from KDE and then maybe they will carry over in Xfce? === wintermu2e is now known as crass [03:57] Ok, thanks I'll give that a shot. Hadn't thought of switching to KDE and back. [03:57] what are you trying to fix [03:57] That sound utility seems like it has a pc speaker option. Is it turned on? [03:58] You can CTRl at bkspc and log in for kde session. then do the same to come back to xfce [03:58] Yes, I played a sound clip/movie clip from my /home/{username}/examples folder and sound was great [03:59] Ok, thanks guys appreciate the pointers. [03:59] Good luck [03:59] Rockinghorse, why not just log out or restart g(k)dm [04:00] Bailing to give your advice a go.... [04:00] I alwasys ctr alt bksp to quit my session and then choose my window manager and log bk in. You could run 2 sessions same time, but is memory hog. === woodtech [n=rmcilmoy@d141-26-138.home.cgocable.net] has left #xubuntu [] [04:11] Rockinghorse, have fun when something messes up because you instantly kill all gui programs [04:14] Jester45: have fun when something messes u: like what might happen? [04:15] In that case I guess I would have to restart KDM or GDM [04:16] sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart [04:16] I always close open windows before I do this, anyway, Jester45. OK, thanks for the tip! [04:18] its a harsh way to go down but better [04:19] OK, I will try it sometime. [04:20] I'm looking at themes rite now at xfce-look.org === bitform [n=bitform@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/bitform] has joined #xubuntu === Wankus [n=Wankus@bb-87-82-25-189.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #xubuntu === eagle-101 is now known as Eagle_101 === Eagle_101 is now known as Eagle-101 [05:15] is there a better mp3 to ogg converter then soundconverter, i find it quite buggy === test3r [n=tester@71-89-151-154.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #xubuntu [05:21] So, has ne1 had the chance of getting one of the new Dells shipping with ubuntu??? Are they really going to do More boxes like that (per the rumor)? === scotti_ [n=scotti@CPE0018f8f39c96-CM0011ae907266.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #xubuntu [05:24] The ubuntu forums have a special Dell section [05:26] oh you're kidding? That is so pimp- I'm glad to have played a (small) part in getting it all together [05:29] Well, I didn't say *that* [05:30] lol? Erm, you're right- I was the one that called it "pimp." === mecannotread [n=josef@202.93.40.230] has joined #xubuntu === ron_o [n=me@12-210-182-66.client.mchsi.com] has joined #xubuntu [05:50] how do I get the little panel applet update notifier thingy? === Jester45 [n=Jester45@d9-161.rt-bras.wnvl.centurytel.net] has joined #xubuntu === magic_ninja [n=asdfsdf@ip68-103-16-175.ks.ok.cox.net] has joined #xubuntu === ron_o [n=ron@12-210-182-66.client.mchsi.com] has joined #xubuntu === s|k [n=bjorn@c-69-181-8-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #xubuntu === pfein [n=pfein@71.194.76.129] has joined #xubuntu [06:22] how do I get the synaptic update notifier applet in the panel? [06:25] thats a gnome thing [06:25] i think [06:26] Jester45: is there anything similar? [06:26] not that i know of [06:26] i just use cron to upgrade === pfein notes that his fresh xubuntu came w/ synaptic... [06:26] yeah, ok [06:26] they all do [06:27] synaptic is just a frontend to apt [06:30] apt-get update updates list apt-get upgrade upgrades [06:30] apt-get install packagename and apt-cache search TERM [06:30] apt-get remove packagename === BFTD [n=thomas@67-150-246-27.oak.mdsg-pacwest.com] has joined #xubuntu [06:33] hi BFTD [06:35] hi === Pumpernickel [n=Pumperni@about/essy/bacon/PuMpErNiCkLe] has joined #xubuntu === mecannotread [n=josef@124.81.148.110] has joined #xubuntu === Knightlust [n=Dax@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has joined #xubuntu === s|k [n=bjorn@c-69-181-8-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #xubuntu === s|k [n=bjorn@c-69-181-8-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #xubuntu [08:16] a portable mp3 player. with bluetooth headsets. Does anyone else think this is ridiculous? or is it just me? [08:17] depends [08:17] would be cool for a few people to listen to same mp3 with headphones [08:18] I'll take my $$$ to Big Lots (discount store) and get a gig player (a 1/4 the storage size) for just $30 as opposed to the $500 that fancy bluetooth thing probably costs [08:18] I remember hunching around my friends when we had 1 walkman and 3 headphones [08:18] I dont know Anyone that has bluetooth headphones [08:18] ya [08:18] heh [08:18] but in theory it would be really cool [08:19] didnt bluetooth itself possibly cause prob in your brain though? like cell phones do? [08:19] the wavelength of that being right on your ear for extended times like that [08:21] i dont think its a problem [08:22] radio waves are allways flowing around you [08:23] Yeah I just ran a quick search - apparently bluetooth and wifi operate on diff frequencies than cell phones of course, & those frequencies used are micro waves & they say it should be fine [08:23] the only problem i would think of is some smart guy making a laptop override your music with advertisements or just a high pitched noise [08:23] don't you need a transmitter capable of doing that bandwidth tho? [08:23] like - i cant make my wifi card do cell phone freq - Can I ? [08:23] like my phone's ring [08:24] or Can I? [08:24] you can make bluetooth do it [08:24] i got a walke-talke that picks up cell phones [08:25] or maybe that was just house phones [08:25] yeah but that means youd have to have a hacker thatHAS a laptop that has a bluetooth sender that has proper drivers to allow him to send manual commands and script those commands [08:25] i know the new ones come built in [08:25] a hacker WOULD hack the drivers [08:26] and a hacker would probly have some handheld device [08:26] still its not an ez task. and those things certainly dont use the drivers i use for wifi [08:26] it just a matter of time before he can send a signal to your headphones [08:26] the hardware itself has to support the calls, too jester [08:27] have you been to hackaday [08:27] this 16-18 year old made a fusion reactor [08:27] or fission t [08:27] im skeptical but it could prob be done. No I am poor. The only place I've been on vacation in my country is Mammoth Caves which was really cool [08:28] hackaday is a website :) [08:28] and I'm sure the 16 year old used components that would generate the responses he seekt [08:29] he didnt substitute a blender for your kitchen in place of a transmitter [08:29] ?? [08:29] im saying - the bluetooth card has to be able to do it, to [08:29] too. it has to take hardware calls of crazy types & stay working [08:30] not everyones cards are built like a brick-s***-house [08:31] it was only luck that taught me this. otherwise id prob still be trying to "look through the door instead of the window" [08:32] your a very confusing person :) [08:32] I looked to get a job with the manuf. of my card, but they need very skilled people that can talk with it in binary & I'm not that good [08:33] jester> yes I am confusing sometimes, but I wasn't trying to be, just now. =( try to re-read it I'll look too [08:33] i speak fluent binary [08:34] 1011011001100100111001 [08:34] yeah me too see 100101010101011101010101 [08:34] =9 [08:34] dont ask what it is but its there [08:34] pay me $100/h to do that =D [08:34] heh, no seriously though, the guys that do that to the wireless cards when they make them? [08:35] they setup things the card can do. without them doing this [08:35] the card cant do anything special. So - a large part of getting a laptop to intercept fone signals is having a bluetooth board that has been programmed by *NIX nerds. [08:38] speaking of praying hardware can do what you want it to do - I'm going to test our live CD on my buddies Sony VIAO laptop [08:38] i dunno if its sucha good idea tho- as his Down key is broke [08:38] k [08:38] so doing any kind of menu would suck [08:39] map it [08:39] map down to idk... a windows key [08:39] oh Chit! good call. where can i do that in XP for him?? Yes ill stick it to right-side MenuSelect key [08:39] once your on the live cd that is === Jester45 doesnt use windows [08:40] i think i used to see that option back in win98 but havent in yrs [08:44] aaa the semi good o' days [08:44] lots of crashes but no vista [08:45] not even xp === MagicFab [n=MagicFab@ubuntu/member/magicfab] has joined #xubuntu [08:46] lol this guy at my work bought Vista before he even knew me, & he haets it. Says none of his old apps work, & the whole thing is horrid === test3r still has a box running XP so he can use Flash, Pinnacle, Adobe, etc [08:46] i "got" a copy to try [08:47] its ugly [08:47] and slow [08:47] country productive [08:47] counter* [08:47] Pinnacle, btw, is crap. I had to hack the program chain of its output to get the saved DVD it produced to goto the correct spot after it finished the movie === highvoltage [n=highvolt@broadband-196-1-61-46.amobia.co.za] has joined #xubuntu [08:47] and well the opposite of what MS said it was [08:48] there was no other way around it aas it was deciding the link automatically and there seems to be no internal editor for these commands I speak of [08:48] i had to use it at school [08:48] i just uploaded the dv to my house and used mencoder [08:48] Vista? counter Productive? baaaaaaaaah lol [08:49] eh? after making a DVD image with Pinnacle? [08:49] creating one from scratch. I dunno what else u can do with it [08:49] bu we are using it to make one from hrs and hrs of mini-DV footage [08:49] i acted like that win the teacher was around [08:49] but played flash games mostly [08:49] as the video uploaded [08:50] then i installed dsl to the computer when i was done [08:50] great fun that was [08:51] What is Mencoder? you used that instead of Pinnacle? Does it have any transitions though? and what about overlay, chromakey, mixing, etc etc? [08:52] dvd author also [08:52] no i just converted it to a dvd [08:52] oic =( no we needed more than that because we still had to do Post [08:53] i didnt care i gave 15 dollars to the club that class was for so my grade was like 130% [08:53] TSA [08:53] if i just had footage id prob use Nero to recode it. the DVD creator with it is quite fast [08:53] they force you to join if you want to be in the easy class [08:53] What kinda school IS this? hahahahaha [08:54] high school [08:54] if you want in the class you have to join [08:54] i didnt even join the marketing club when i was in eBusiness for two semesters. the teacher would go out to the bar with me afterword & we'd talk about stuff [08:54] and you want the class because its easy [08:55] in HS? baaaaaaaah - my Cousin? who is blonde and a fashion sucker? she took a year worth of college classes by the time she was done with HS [08:55] im a slacker [08:55] I was working at a print place doing Typography when I was in 10th grade [08:55] getting paid to do it - and getting credit too [08:56] my classes this year are === sylvander_ [n=sylvande@ACD57162.ipt.aol.com] has joined #xubuntu [08:56] 1) algebra3 (morning math thats GREAT) [08:57] 2-3)computer networking [08:57] 4 biology [08:57] 5american government [08:57] heh, youve learned more Here about networking then you will in that class..... [08:57] 6-7 computer networking agian [08:58] and 8 is 20th centry american history 2 [08:58] thats my days [08:58] hey tho - see that's where we're alot diff - I didnt use linux in highschool I didnt have time. I was learning adobe,3d studio,etcetc [08:58] 1-4 being 1 day and 5-8 being the 2nd [08:59] did that last year [08:59] mutlimedia stuffs [08:59] youve got four hours taken up by comp networking? [08:59] webpage disign [08:59] lol [08:59] VERY easy year [08:59] frontpage doesnt count ;p === Jester45 used notepad [08:59] right on [08:59] and now i used mousepad/nano [09:00] lol, there is very good editor [09:00] the class did it in steps the good way [09:00] that is for C? on here. it can do XHTML im sure [09:00] it will auto highlight syntax and etc cool things [09:00] text -> dreamweaver -> flash [09:00] flash was gay because i couldnt use notepad [09:01] dreamweaver has been broke since i first tried it [09:01] flash you just have to put up with [09:01] kus flash is flash [09:01] there is only 1 flash [09:01] flash=gay [09:01] heh, it's very picky, confusing, and unnessecarily hard, yes [09:01] slow [09:02] I rly hope adobe does alot good for it. [09:02] inefficient [09:02] anti google [09:02] anti google? flash is not "Anti Google" [09:02] google hates flash because it cant see whats in it and use that in the index [09:03] flash creates a OBJ tag [09:03] remember? tags? [09:03] =D [09:03] google should b reading the page the Flash is IN [09:03] yea.... [09:03] it should b embedded in a spot in the page determined by your layout [09:03] a few tags do not equal a full page in html [09:03] personally [09:03] i prefer CSS for all positioning [09:03] coloring [09:03] and anything I can make it do [09:04] like menus [09:04] CSS can make a nifty menu, yes [09:04] with a touch of javascript or not either or [09:04] yea i got a menu with js on it [09:05] kinda slower but not much [09:05] rly, tho, you want to stay away from those Especially now because , as you know, alot of people use "NoScript" plugin [09:05] there is a thing they taught me [09:05] first semester in design school - [09:05] that classic text is good? [09:05] K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Silly [09:06] no - the more basic you can have it and have it work and its good - Do That [09:06] my teach say Keep It Simple Stupid [09:06] lol yes my version was the nicer version [09:06] he was 9th grade science [09:06] funny guy [09:06] watched movies 1/2 the year [09:07] I had a very odd, cool, science teacher too. I've had dumb ones, too. [09:07] lol [09:08] biology guy was smart. i student aid'ed for him. [09:08] chemistry teacher? she was a ditz. [09:08] luckily the back row was not as dumb as she was. [09:08] my photoshop teach wasnt to good with computers so she had me do all her work [09:08] rofl [09:08] sic. [09:08] neat smart board === tato^ [n=tato@201.247.168.48] has joined #xubuntu [09:09] i messed with her a lot === tato^ [n=tato@201.247.168.48] has left #xubuntu [] [09:09] walking by the board when its "off" you tap the top right corner and there goes her email === ablomen [n=ablomen@unaffiliated/ablomen] has joined #xubuntu [09:10] because it never was off just the projector you could still controll the computer with it [09:10] a "smart board" ????? daaaaaaaaaaaaamn you lucky SOB ! hahahahahaha WE USED CHALK ! [09:10] I used to write out pre-calc at 7:30AM [09:10] on the board in front of class [09:10] or i got the on screen keybaord out and raced her [09:10] with CHALK [09:10] =\ [09:11] do you know what they are? [09:11] never seen one ever. I bet it's awesome. [09:12] pretty much a 6ft sq touch screen with a projector for the image [09:12] that's so pimp. I want one on my fridge so it just hands me what I touch at. [09:13] it has pens of diffrent colors they didnt write on the board but the board knew you picked it up and did the beryl annotate thing and made that colored lines [09:13] that classroom was the best [09:13] i wouldnt want one in my living room though as id want to be able to recline - i think id still go with the wireless KB/Mouse & projector on giant white wall setup [09:14] beryl annotate??????? =O wt- is That? [09:14] the computers are core duos [09:14] with 1gb ram [09:14] pretty good when there is a whole class room of them [09:14] i have a gig on the xp box im doing the dvd on [09:15] do you know what beryl is [09:15] a Class? of intels? gawd [09:15] ud think they wouldve woke up by now [09:15] its a umm linux thing [09:15] the principal still only uses Word tho im sure [09:15] open gl window manger [09:15] gives you the fancy cube for a desktop [09:16] isnt beryl some math things too????? I think I see that with fractals [09:16] like a better faster version of MS's Aero [09:16] (plus beryl was first) [09:17] thats what that Cube is? Ah Ha! So- can I use that on a multi-boot laptop ? and have multi OS up for selection on that cube? [09:17] well its like drawing on the screen [09:17] ?? [09:17] no each face is a workspace [09:17] oh it just a drawing? you cant actually click that? [09:17] you can have more or less [09:18] i think the limits right now are 2-32 [09:18] 2 is weird [09:18] its flat just 2 sites [09:18] bwaaaAAAHAHAHAH we need one that can launch multi OS at once and let us flip betwen them [09:18] sides* [09:18] like they are workspaces in here [09:18] well... [09:18] actually - u could run WINE in a workspace or sojmething eh? [09:18] you could [09:18] run xen [09:19] + vnc localhost the guest os [09:19] and full sceen it [09:19] but that would be a slow thing [09:19] sick. yeah it sure would on a laptop with 512 [09:20] =( [09:20] ah well I love it anyway [09:20] start off with your xubuntu then take 3-10% speed for *nix oses and 45-60% for windows/mac OSs [09:20] plus running beryl [09:20] and vncing to all the OSes [09:21] would be nice on a demo for something [09:21] true it would look nuts. I've seen shottd of that b4 tho i swear [09:22] it would be nice [09:22] if the laptop will rly only increase load additional 60% for windows it would be able to do it. [09:22] if it ran good [09:22] it would be a lot easier on all *nix guest [09:22] well [09:23] it takes about 50% more power to go the thing in windows when running on xen then a native windows install [09:23] and about 5% if your using a linux/bsd type [09:24] OOO [09:24] xen 4 ubuntu;s [09:24] or 3 [09:24] host has a side [09:24] then the other 3 have a side each [09:24] yeah linux itself on idle says its taking 1% [09:24] not even 3 [09:24] then... all 4 have cubes them selves [09:25] yea but your not gonna idle the whole time [09:25] 3*5%=15% idle about most likly less [09:26] then say you open firefox it takes a lot longer to load [09:26] xen it used a lot for servers [09:26] me and vidd are setting up one now [09:26] i got debian etch running and working on ubuntu [09:26] to run a session of thing for logged in user? [09:27] we will have a os runningfor ftp http mail terminal host and idk what else [09:27] its a fast virtualization [09:28] its only faster when the OS can used the modifeded kernel [09:28] rightright [09:28] so bsd linux unix and others nixs [09:28] but this way is moremore secure [09:28] but mac and windows need to be full virtual [09:28] you're talking a multi-user setup yes? [09:28] so just as slow as qemu [09:28] at a business or such? [09:29] well [09:29] me and vidd are the admins [09:29] and only users other than customers [09:29] there is a dom0 the host [09:29] and then the virtual computers are domu [09:29] im wokring on a gentoo one to [09:30] that will just be my toy one [09:30] yea its a lot safer [09:30] .. huh! So - u just gana make a junker acc at some point to tester out with? [09:31] because say the ftp os gets hacked or crashed or overloaded [09:31] gentoo..... bLeLCh... *Enjoy Your Compiling Time* ;p [09:31] we can set the ftp to only use 90% max cpu [09:31] so we can ssh in kill it and mv a backup image in [09:31] take the old one and make it offline and figure out what was wrong [09:32] all as the http and others are still running like nothing happened [09:32] u dont ned gentoo to ssh in to fix it [09:32] yea i know [09:32] the gentoo is just for fun [09:32] wait mmmmmmm er -\ [09:32] so u mean internal LAN initiated ssh yes? [09:33] ur puting a firewall in front of sever bloking that yes? [09:33] if i get its super optimized i might transfer it to a harddrive of mine and play with it non virtualized [09:33] not yet [09:33] its offline right now its getting hooked up [09:34] oh right - its not even turned on all the time either eh? [09:34] our 1st server at vidd.us is firewalled but you can get in via ssh [09:34] it doesnt have internet yet [09:34] isnt that a bad risk? [09:34] its colecting dust [09:34] not really [09:35] ive read a lot lately saying to turn external ssh off completely on your server [09:35] im pretty sure they can get in [09:35] we yea [09:35] well [09:35] but its still getting setup completly [09:35] and then will im moving it to the xen server [09:36] "Why dont you take your BAR ..!!! and shove it up your &$% ! IM WATCHIN TEEEE VOE !" [09:36] rofl i love this show [09:36] right now i think the server running right now is a 2.2ghz 300mb ram [09:36] its ok for what we are using it for [09:37] the xen server is a storage hog as there are 5 installes on it [09:37] but thats 5 OSes yes? with apps? [09:37] or without apps yet? [09:38] 1 with 4 without [09:38]