/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/08/07/#ubuntu-marketing.txt

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gerr2morning all12:02
gerr2we've changed the front page for a day - www.ubuntu.com12:03
elkbuntuexcellent. i wish they'd hurry and expand it to oceania so the 'nobody cares about australia' people can shush :12:05
elkbuntugerr2, did you get my PM yesterday?12:05
juliuxhey gerr2 12:12
gerr2elkbuntu: great story about a start up using ubuntu and getting rid of red hat 12:12
juliuxgerr2, www.dell.de/ubuntu is not working12:13
gerr2elkbuntu: did you see it? 12:13
elkbuntugerr2, not sure?12:13
gerr2juliux: read the page: available from tomorrow12:13
juliuxhttp://www.ubuntu.com/dell there stands 8th july12:13
juliuxwww.dell.de/ubuntu (available July 8th) 12:13
juliuxperhaps a bug;)12:14
gerr2elkbuntu: <http://digg.com/linux_unix/Telco_dumps_Red_Hat_for_Ubuntu>12:14
elkbuntugerr2, that looks familiar12:15
=== elkbuntu larts all the gecko applications for chewing resources
elkbuntuyeah, i had heard that12:18
gerr2juliux: :-/ i can't seem to edit that page either for some reason12:18
gerr2this is a little frustrasting12:20
gerr2elkbuntu: i got your 12:21
gerr2p12:21
gerr2elkbuntu: i'll try that again. i got your PM yesterday12:21
elkbuntucool, just wanted to be sure :)12:21
gerr2juliux: i take it julius your position has not changed re: dusseldorf12:29
juliuxgerr2, it has changed a little bit;)12:29
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juliuxgerr2, i can go to the tv show12:30
juliuxbut somebody should sponsor my travel costs12:31
gerr2ah!! ok. yes we will pay the travel costs12:33
gerr2i'll mail you of line12:33
juliuxok12:33
gerr2i'll PM you I mean . not sure how i would send a message offline :-[12:34
juliuxhehe12:34
gerr2juliux: did you get my PM? 12:40
juliuxnot yet12:41
gerr2juliux: still nothing? this is a bit odd12:47
juliuxgerr2, i have greylisting enabled 12:47
juliuxgerr2, are you sure you send it? i cann't see any mail in the log file from you12:48
gerr2i did not send an email12:49
gerr2i tried on irc12:49
gerr2i don't have your email address12:49
juliuxyou have to register your nick on freenode12:50
juliuxwithout that i cann't read your pm on irc12:50
juliuxor you join #gerry ;)12:51
gerr2juliux: can you just send me an email with your travel requirements julius? gerry dot carr at canonical dot com 12:58
juliuxyes12:58
juliuxso you only need the cities?12:59
juliuxwhere i start?12:59
juliuxgerr2, take a look at  http://www.opensourcefactory.com/cms/index.php?page=ubuntu_linux_7-04 there are no more ubuntu colors02:00
jendajuliux: you can also turn on umode +6 to be able to accept PMs from unreggeds02:09
juliuxjenda, ahh ok02:09
juliuxthxs02:09
jendagerr2: but you should register ;)02:09
jendaand hello :)02:09
juliuxjenda, did you know http://www.linux-onlineshop.de/product_info.php/info/p1332_PC-Sticker---powered-by-Ubuntu--verzerrt.html ;902:12
jendajuliux: your work? :)02:13
juliuxno02:13
jendathey're still 3 times what mine cost ;)02:13
juliuxthat is one of the professional shops in germany02:13
jendacool02:14
juliuxhe sells them for 25cent02:14
jendaI'm 100% sure they use it with commercial intent.02:14
juliuxi know02:16
jendagerr2: how does canonical deal with that? Did they ask and receive specific permission to do so?02:17
jendaNot to mention they are using the name "Ubuntu Linux", which is totally counterproductive to our branding policies :(02:19
gerr2jenda: i thought i had registered02:42
gerr2although i seem to be gerr2 these days02:42
jendathen try /nick <whateverthereggednickis>02:43
jenda(gerr2 isn't registered)02:44
gerr2jenda: i don't think we have approved this - we would not approve Ubuntu Linux02:55
jendaindeed02:55
jendagerr2: and if they were to sell it as 'Ubuntu', would you have approved it even if it was for-profit?02:55
gerr2jenda: probably but i don't know anything about these guys 03:06
jendaok03:06
jendagerr2: so, theoretically it would be possible to ask for such permission?03:07
gerr2jenda: if they are a legitimate business and particularly, as they appear to be, promoting Linux then there is no conflict with them making a profit03:07
jendagerr2: I meant, for example, if I or another community member did so.03:07
elkbuntuproviding they're promoting the correct thing, as in Ubuntu, not Ubuntu Linux03:08
gerr2jenda: permission to use the trademark? Mail trademarks@ubuntu.com and tell them what you are doing03:08
gerr2jenda: and show them what you are doing03:08
jendagerr2: oh, permission to use the trademark isn't the problem - but permission to use it and make a profit in the process is a different thing, innit?03:09
jenda(I mean, I've had them check every single thing I ever shipped)03:09
gerr2jenda: it's a confusing area03:09
jendaThe thing is, I'm now pulling out of the 'business', because I can't pay myself for the time I spend doing it. I had to get a job instead.03:09
gerr2jenda: example 1 - comm member sells t shirts above costs and uses money made to attend events: fine03:10
jendaok03:10
jendathat's pretty much what I intended.03:10
elkbuntuEven when I write about Ubuntu these days, I take specific care not to write Linux directly after Ubuntu. So rather than "the Ubuntu Linux distribution" i make sure i write "the distribution of Linux called Ubuntu"03:10
jendaI mean, I have about $500 here which I made using the stuff, and it'll be used for the Czech Loco, mostly. But I might continue doing the stuff if I could use the money to attend a UDS eventually.03:11
gerr2jenda: someone we don't know uses trademarks to sell t-shirts for personal gain and contributes nothing to ubuntu or linux community? not good03:11
jendamhm03:11
elkbuntugerr2, that opinion varies from person to person. some would not care so long as the brand is getting out. i believe riched is one of that stance03:12
jendagerr2: so, if I wanted to continue in the field, selling this stuff, in order to be able to afford a UDS later on, what would be the process? Ask trademarks for approval?03:12
jendaelkbuntu: the trademark policy is quite clear on that, however :(03:13
gerr2elkbuntu: for commercial use you need our permission03:15
gerr2elkbuntu: but that's not to say we won't give it. if it is legitimate we likely will 03:16
jendagerr2: so, what's the process of asking for the permission?03:16
elkbuntui didnt read 'without asking permission' into the case, sorry03:16
gerr2in principle we want people to make money out of ubuntu in order to sustain the project as long as they do it the right way03:17
gerr2jenda: tell me what you want to do jenda?03:17
elkbuntuone could very easily argue that brand placement is a valid contribution too03:17
jendagerr2: what I've been doing for ages :)03:17
jendagerr2: I've been selling ubuntu stickers and posters to the community for bulk prices, with very little profit03:17
jendawith the proviso that I don't keep the profit.03:18
jendagerr2: but I can no longer afford to do so.03:18
jendagerr2: however, if I could keep part of the profit, I would very likely continue.03:18
jendagerr2: I've already sent out some 14000 case badges, 800 posters and some 200 other stickers.03:19
jendagerr2: here's a complete budget and other info on the 'project': https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/DIYWebsite/Get/PriceListJenda?action=show&redirect=PriceListJenda#head-d52bd66652f2bbd8244cfe459cd68bed6460edcf03:20
jenda(note: most of the actual profits are generated from tips. the prices them selves are low-margin, or even negative-margin)03:21
jendagerr2: and another point is that before the new trademark policy was in place, I frequently encouraged people to create Ubuntu swag to get the brand out there, even based the DIY marketing project around that, citing that they could make money doing so - as that would serve as a great incentive for locoteams in poorer countries, and a way for them to make money even for the locos, which is extremely difficult in poorer countries.03:25
jenda(so knowing how exactly it is possible to do the same now would also be good)03:25
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gerr2jenda: i am aware of your activities03:41
gerr2jenda: and i don't want them to stop03:42
gerr2jenda: this sounds like a fairly big topic and i want to make the ground rules as clear to all as possible 03:42
gerr2jenda: how about a MEETING!!!03:43
jendahehe03:43
jendasounds good :)03:43
jendaMy activities actually have stopped, pretty much, because of the job, but that should be just temporary.03:43
gerr2gerr2: i'm serious; it feels to me that there has been a bit of a decline in the DIY marketing03:43
gerr2gerr2: and we need to revive it. 03:43
gerr2gerr2: also i need someone to tell me how to register a nickname03:44
gerr2that can be item 103:44
jendahehe03:44
jendayou were talking to yourself there ;)03:44
jendaI can help you register the nickname.03:44
jendaAs for DIY - I became very busy over the summer. I will pay it a lot of attention as soon as I finish my work, which _should_ be this weekend.03:45
elkbuntuwe get jenda back? YAY!03:46
=== elkbuntu hugs jenda
jendahehe03:46
gerr2jenda: that was not a criticism - it's just that we need to spread it beyond your activities03:46
=== jenda hugs elky back
jendagerr2: oh, definitely03:46
jendagerr2: I've always wanted that to happen03:46
jendagerr2: in fact, I've tried persuading several people who showed interest to take over whichever part of swag production they were most interested in, but most people chickened out in the end :)03:47
jendathe only one who hasn't, so far, is juliux, and he started on his own.03:47
gerr2well maybe we need to figure out a way for people to do it really easily and maybe even make some money ;)03:48
jendamhm03:48
jendaI don't know how to make it easier for them, apart from offering the necessary digital material, and not obstructing their work :)03:49
jendaOf course, DIY was also intended to list people who offered swag, so as to give them a basic advertising.03:50
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gerr2i don't know either - maybe we need to identify some people and encourage them .03:58
gerr2anyway meeting? 03:59
gerr2how do we guarantee a good attendance? 03:59
elkbuntugerr2, figuring out who you're targetting, for a start04:00
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jendagerr2: and then sending it out on teh mailing list, and prodding specific people individually :)04:02
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gerr2juliux: you back online?04:28
juliuxgerr2, yes04:29
juliuxi am back from dentist04:29
gerr2juliux: news on your tickets.. it's an early start fella04:29
juliuxnp04:30
gerr2i'll fire them through - they'll be paid for you will just need to pick them up in hamburg 04:30
gerr2elkbuntu: i don't know who to target04:31
juliuxgerr2, cool04:32
juliuxgerr2, where should i pick them up? and where?04:32
elkbuntugerr2, you could try the LoCo contacts mailing list, but be aware that some teams will take it as an invitation to cry poor and ask canonical to fund ventures04:33
juliux!logs04:41
ubotuChannel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs04:41
juliuxjenda, can you explain "the only one who hasn't, so far, is juliux, and he started on his own." to me04:46
juliuxi don't understand what you try to say;)04:46
jendajuliux: you're the only one who hasn't given up, and made the shirts :)04:48
juliuxahhh04:48
jendajuliux: but I didn't talk you into it - you did that on your own.04:48
juliuxbtw i think you still get money from us for the stickers04:49
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jendajuliux: hmm?04:58
juliuxjenda, as you was in dresden you gave me stickers, did you get the money for them?04:59
jendahmm04:59
jendaI didn't!04:59
jenda:D04:59
jendajeez04:59
jendaI thought they were subtracted from the shirts, but that didn't happen in the end, did it?04:59
juliuxi have no idea05:12
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juliuxlol05:13
beunojuliux: also, your tshirts rock!  :D05:14
juliuxbeuno, thxs05:15
juliuxwith the next shirts there will be a lot of things better in the organisation05:15
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juliuxi want to use a ticketsystem so everybody can see where the shirts are05:15
juliuxor i will setup a webshop for that05:15
juliuxjenda, perhaps we can setup an ubuntu community shop, but we will write there that this is not a normal shop and everthing is not a payment it is a donation to the community;)05:17
jendahehe05:17
jendajuliux, I've been working on that for the past 6 months ;)05:17
juliuxoscommerce is not so difficult i think05:17
beunoI can do web stuff  :D05:18
juliuxcool05:18
jendajuliux: so... it's 75 :)05:18
beunoI've been bugging jenda to commit to the sticker selling, so I would setup a shop for him05:19
beunoif it's a more broader thing, even better!05:19
=== jenda shrugs
jendathat's what DIY is supposed to be05:19
beunojenda: :X05:19
jendabut I'm not capable of getting a team or person that would set it up :)05:19
juliuxbeuno, did you tested oscommerce? 05:20
juliuxbeuno, i am searching for something where i can track all the stuff05:20
beunojuliux: yes, it's icky!05:21
beunoI'll look for something better, if possible05:21
juliuxok05:21
juliuxi also tried rt05:21
beunoand jenda, clear it with Dan first, if I can take over, I'll get it done05:21
jendajuliux: what do you mean by 'track'?05:22
jendajuliux: no matter what you do, you'll always be dependant on your shipping company in that.05:22
juliuxjenda, i want to track the e-mails between me and the people who order the shirts;)05:22
jendaah05:22
beunounless he ships personally, which would have an added value!  :p05:22
jendaI use gmail for that :D05:22
juliuxlike a bugtracker05:22
jendaok05:22
juliuxbaahhh gmail05:22
beunojuliux: launchpad?  :D05:22
juliuxbeuno, it shouldn't be open05:23
juliuxbeuno, i think i will setup an ticket system for that05:23
jendajuliux: I would definitely hate to have to go to an extra website to see the orders etc.05:23
jendabut meh, I can't do anything till I finish my work :) I'm off.05:23
juliuxjenda, cu05:23
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juliuxgerr2, should i book the train?06:31
juliuxgerr2, and is 4:42 right?06:31
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