[12:02] <gerr2> morning all
[12:03] <gerr2> we've changed the front page for a day - www.ubuntu.com
[12:05] <elkbuntu> excellent. i wish they'd hurry and expand it to oceania so the 'nobody cares about australia' people can shush :
[12:05] <elkbuntu> gerr2, did you get my PM yesterday?
[12:12] <juliux> hey gerr2 
[12:12] <gerr2> elkbuntu: great story about a start up using ubuntu and getting rid of red hat 
[12:13] <juliux> gerr2, www.dell.de/ubuntu is not working
[12:13] <gerr2> elkbuntu: did you see it? 
[12:13] <elkbuntu> gerr2, not sure?
[12:13] <gerr2> juliux: read the page: available from tomorrow
[12:13] <juliux> http://www.ubuntu.com/dell there stands 8th july
[12:13] <juliux> www.dell.de/ubuntu (available July 8th) 
[12:14] <juliux> perhaps a bug;)
[12:14] <gerr2> elkbuntu: <http://digg.com/linux_unix/Telco_dumps_Red_Hat_for_Ubuntu>
[12:15] <elkbuntu> gerr2, that looks familiar
[12:18] <elkbuntu> yeah, i had heard that
[12:18] <gerr2> juliux: :-/ i can't seem to edit that page either for some reason
[12:20] <gerr2> this is a little frustrasting
[12:21] <gerr2> elkbuntu: i got your 
[12:21] <gerr2> p
[12:21] <gerr2> elkbuntu: i'll try that again. i got your PM yesterday
[12:21] <elkbuntu> cool, just wanted to be sure :)
[12:29] <gerr2> juliux: i take it julius your position has not changed re: dusseldorf
[12:29] <juliux> gerr2, it has changed a little bit;)
[12:30] <juliux> gerr2, i can go to the tv show
[12:31] <juliux> but somebody should sponsor my travel costs
[12:33] <gerr2> ah!! ok. yes we will pay the travel costs
[12:33] <gerr2> i'll mail you of line
[12:33] <juliux> ok
[12:34] <gerr2> i'll PM you I mean . not sure how i would send a message offline :-[
[12:34] <juliux> hehe
[12:40] <gerr2> juliux: did you get my PM? 
[12:41] <juliux> not yet
[12:47] <gerr2> juliux: still nothing? this is a bit odd
[12:47] <juliux> gerr2, i have greylisting enabled 
[12:48] <juliux> gerr2, are you sure you send it? i cann't see any mail in the log file from you
[12:49] <gerr2> i did not send an email
[12:49] <gerr2> i tried on irc
[12:49] <gerr2> i don't have your email address
[12:50] <juliux> you have to register your nick on freenode
[12:50] <juliux> without that i cann't read your pm on irc
[12:51] <juliux> or you join #gerry ;)
[12:58] <gerr2> juliux: can you just send me an email with your travel requirements julius? gerry dot carr at canonical dot com 
[12:58] <juliux> yes
[12:59] <juliux> so you only need the cities?
[12:59] <juliux> where i start?
[02:00] <juliux> gerr2, take a look at  http://www.opensourcefactory.com/cms/index.php?page=ubuntu_linux_7-04 there are no more ubuntu colors
[02:09] <jenda> juliux: you can also turn on umode +6 to be able to accept PMs from unreggeds
[02:09] <juliux> jenda, ahh ok
[02:09] <juliux> thxs
[02:09] <jenda> gerr2: but you should register ;)
[02:09] <jenda> and hello :)
[02:12] <juliux> jenda, did you know http://www.linux-onlineshop.de/product_info.php/info/p1332_PC-Sticker---powered-by-Ubuntu--verzerrt.html ;9
[02:13] <jenda> juliux: your work? :)
[02:13] <juliux> no
[02:13] <jenda> they're still 3 times what mine cost ;)
[02:13] <juliux> that is one of the professional shops in germany
[02:14] <jenda> cool
[02:14] <juliux> he sells them for 25cent
[02:14] <jenda> I'm 100% sure they use it with commercial intent.
[02:16] <juliux> i know
[02:17] <jenda> gerr2: how does canonical deal with that? Did they ask and receive specific permission to do so?
[02:19] <jenda> Not to mention they are using the name "Ubuntu Linux", which is totally counterproductive to our branding policies :(
[02:42] <gerr2> jenda: i thought i had registered
[02:42] <gerr2> although i seem to be gerr2 these days
[02:43] <jenda> then try /nick <whateverthereggednickis>
[02:44] <jenda> (gerr2 isn't registered)
[02:55] <gerr2> jenda: i don't think we have approved this - we would not approve Ubuntu Linux
[02:55] <jenda> indeed
[02:55] <jenda> gerr2: and if they were to sell it as 'Ubuntu', would you have approved it even if it was for-profit?
[03:06] <gerr2> jenda: probably but i don't know anything about these guys 
[03:06] <jenda> ok
[03:07] <jenda> gerr2: so, theoretically it would be possible to ask for such permission?
[03:07] <gerr2> jenda: if they are a legitimate business and particularly, as they appear to be, promoting Linux then there is no conflict with them making a profit
[03:07] <jenda> gerr2: I meant, for example, if I or another community member did so.
[03:08] <elkbuntu> providing they're promoting the correct thing, as in Ubuntu, not Ubuntu Linux
[03:08] <gerr2> jenda: permission to use the trademark? Mail trademarks@ubuntu.com and tell them what you are doing
[03:08] <gerr2> jenda: and show them what you are doing
[03:09] <jenda> gerr2: oh, permission to use the trademark isn't the problem - but permission to use it and make a profit in the process is a different thing, innit?
[03:09] <jenda> (I mean, I've had them check every single thing I ever shipped)
[03:09] <gerr2> jenda: it's a confusing area
[03:09] <jenda> The thing is, I'm now pulling out of the 'business', because I can't pay myself for the time I spend doing it. I had to get a job instead.
[03:10] <gerr2> jenda: example 1 - comm member sells t shirts above costs and uses money made to attend events: fine
[03:10] <jenda> ok
[03:10] <jenda> that's pretty much what I intended.
[03:10] <elkbuntu> Even when I write about Ubuntu these days, I take specific care not to write Linux directly after Ubuntu. So rather than "the Ubuntu Linux distribution" i make sure i write "the distribution of Linux called Ubuntu"
[03:11] <jenda> I mean, I have about $500 here which I made using the stuff, and it'll be used for the Czech Loco, mostly. But I might continue doing the stuff if I could use the money to attend a UDS eventually.
[03:11] <gerr2> jenda: someone we don't know uses trademarks to sell t-shirts for personal gain and contributes nothing to ubuntu or linux community? not good
[03:11] <jenda> mhm
[03:12] <elkbuntu> gerr2, that opinion varies from person to person. some would not care so long as the brand is getting out. i believe riched is one of that stance
[03:12] <jenda> gerr2: so, if I wanted to continue in the field, selling this stuff, in order to be able to afford a UDS later on, what would be the process? Ask trademarks for approval?
[03:13] <jenda> elkbuntu: the trademark policy is quite clear on that, however :(
[03:15] <gerr2> elkbuntu: for commercial use you need our permission
[03:16] <gerr2> elkbuntu: but that's not to say we won't give it. if it is legitimate we likely will 
[03:16] <jenda> gerr2: so, what's the process of asking for the permission?
[03:16] <elkbuntu> i didnt read 'without asking permission' into the case, sorry
[03:17] <gerr2> in principle we want people to make money out of ubuntu in order to sustain the project as long as they do it the right way
[03:17] <gerr2> jenda: tell me what you want to do jenda?
[03:17] <elkbuntu> one could very easily argue that brand placement is a valid contribution too
[03:17] <jenda> gerr2: what I've been doing for ages :)
[03:17] <jenda> gerr2: I've been selling ubuntu stickers and posters to the community for bulk prices, with very little profit
[03:18] <jenda> with the proviso that I don't keep the profit.
[03:18] <jenda> gerr2: but I can no longer afford to do so.
[03:18] <jenda> gerr2: however, if I could keep part of the profit, I would very likely continue.
[03:19] <jenda> gerr2: I've already sent out some 14000 case badges, 800 posters and some 200 other stickers.
[03:20] <jenda> gerr2: here's a complete budget and other info on the 'project': https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/DIYWebsite/Get/PriceListJenda?action=show&redirect=PriceListJenda#head-d52bd66652f2bbd8244cfe459cd68bed6460edcf
[03:21] <jenda> (note: most of the actual profits are generated from tips. the prices them selves are low-margin, or even negative-margin)
[03:25] <jenda> gerr2: and another point is that before the new trademark policy was in place, I frequently encouraged people to create Ubuntu swag to get the brand out there, even based the DIY marketing project around that, citing that they could make money doing so - as that would serve as a great incentive for locoteams in poorer countries, and a way for them to make money even for the locos, which is extremely difficult in poorer countries.
[03:25] <jenda> (so knowing how exactly it is possible to do the same now would also be good)
[03:41] <gerr2> jenda: i am aware of your activities
[03:42] <gerr2> jenda: and i don't want them to stop
[03:42] <gerr2> jenda: this sounds like a fairly big topic and i want to make the ground rules as clear to all as possible 
[03:43] <gerr2> jenda: how about a MEETING!!!
[03:43] <jenda> hehe
[03:43] <jenda> sounds good :)
[03:43] <jenda> My activities actually have stopped, pretty much, because of the job, but that should be just temporary.
[03:43] <gerr2> gerr2: i'm serious; it feels to me that there has been a bit of a decline in the DIY marketing
[03:43] <gerr2> gerr2: and we need to revive it. 
[03:44] <gerr2> gerr2: also i need someone to tell me how to register a nickname
[03:44] <gerr2> that can be item 1
[03:44] <jenda> hehe
[03:44] <jenda> you were talking to yourself there ;)
[03:44] <jenda> I can help you register the nickname.
[03:45] <jenda> As for DIY - I became very busy over the summer. I will pay it a lot of attention as soon as I finish my work, which _should_ be this weekend.
[03:46] <elkbuntu> we get jenda back? YAY!
[03:46] <jenda> hehe
[03:46] <gerr2> jenda: that was not a criticism - it's just that we need to spread it beyond your activities
[03:46] <jenda> gerr2: oh, definitely
[03:46] <jenda> gerr2: I've always wanted that to happen
[03:47] <jenda> gerr2: in fact, I've tried persuading several people who showed interest to take over whichever part of swag production they were most interested in, but most people chickened out in the end :)
[03:47] <jenda> the only one who hasn't, so far, is juliux, and he started on his own.
[03:48] <gerr2> well maybe we need to figure out a way for people to do it really easily and maybe even make some money ;)
[03:48] <jenda> mhm
[03:49] <jenda> I don't know how to make it easier for them, apart from offering the necessary digital material, and not obstructing their work :)
[03:50] <jenda> Of course, DIY was also intended to list people who offered swag, so as to give them a basic advertising.
[03:58] <gerr2> i don't know either - maybe we need to identify some people and encourage them .
[03:59] <gerr2> anyway meeting? 
[03:59] <gerr2> how do we guarantee a good attendance? 
[04:00] <elkbuntu> gerr2, figuring out who you're targetting, for a start
[04:02] <jenda> gerr2: and then sending it out on teh mailing list, and prodding specific people individually :)
[04:28] <gerr2> juliux: you back online?
[04:29] <juliux> gerr2, yes
[04:29] <juliux> i am back from dentist
[04:29] <gerr2> juliux: news on your tickets.. it's an early start fella
[04:30] <juliux> np
[04:30] <gerr2> i'll fire them through - they'll be paid for you will just need to pick them up in hamburg 
[04:31] <gerr2> elkbuntu: i don't know who to target
[04:32] <juliux> gerr2, cool
[04:32] <juliux> gerr2, where should i pick them up? and where?
[04:33] <elkbuntu> gerr2, you could try the LoCo contacts mailing list, but be aware that some teams will take it as an invitation to cry poor and ask canonical to fund ventures
[04:41] <juliux> !logs
[04:41] <ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
[04:46] <juliux> jenda, can you explain "the only one who hasn't, so far, is juliux, and he started on his own." to me
[04:46] <juliux> i don't understand what you try to say;)
[04:48] <jenda> juliux: you're the only one who hasn't given up, and made the shirts :)
[04:48] <juliux> ahhh
[04:48] <jenda> juliux: but I didn't talk you into it - you did that on your own.
[04:49] <juliux> btw i think you still get money from us for the stickers
[04:58] <jenda> juliux: hmm?
[04:59] <juliux> jenda, as you was in dresden you gave me stickers, did you get the money for them?
[04:59] <jenda> hmm
[04:59] <jenda> I didn't!
[04:59] <jenda> :D
[04:59] <jenda> jeez
[04:59] <jenda> I thought they were subtracted from the shirts, but that didn't happen in the end, did it?
[05:12] <juliux> i have no idea
[05:13] <juliux> lol
[05:14] <beuno> juliux: also, your tshirts rock!  :D
[05:15] <juliux> beuno, thxs
[05:15] <juliux> with the next shirts there will be a lot of things better in the organisation
[05:15] <juliux> i want to use a ticketsystem so everybody can see where the shirts are
[05:15] <juliux> or i will setup a webshop for that
[05:17] <juliux> jenda, perhaps we can setup an ubuntu community shop, but we will write there that this is not a normal shop and everthing is not a payment it is a donation to the community;)
[05:17] <jenda> hehe
[05:17] <jenda> juliux, I've been working on that for the past 6 months ;)
[05:17] <juliux> oscommerce is not so difficult i think
[05:18] <beuno> I can do web stuff  :D
[05:18] <juliux> cool
[05:18] <jenda> juliux: so... it's 75 :)
[05:19] <beuno> I've been bugging jenda to commit to the sticker selling, so I would setup a shop for him
[05:19] <beuno> if it's a more broader thing, even better!
[05:19] <jenda> that's what DIY is supposed to be
[05:19] <beuno> jenda: :X
[05:19] <jenda> but I'm not capable of getting a team or person that would set it up :)
[05:20] <juliux> beuno, did you tested oscommerce? 
[05:20] <juliux> beuno, i am searching for something where i can track all the stuff
[05:21] <beuno> juliux: yes, it's icky!
[05:21] <beuno> I'll look for something better, if possible
[05:21] <juliux> ok
[05:21] <juliux> i also tried rt
[05:21] <beuno> and jenda, clear it with Dan first, if I can take over, I'll get it done
[05:22] <jenda> juliux: what do you mean by 'track'?
[05:22] <jenda> juliux: no matter what you do, you'll always be dependant on your shipping company in that.
[05:22] <juliux> jenda, i want to track the e-mails between me and the people who order the shirts;)
[05:22] <jenda> ah
[05:22] <beuno> unless he ships personally, which would have an added value!  :p
[05:22] <jenda> I use gmail for that :D
[05:22] <juliux> like a bugtracker
[05:22] <jenda> ok
[05:22] <juliux> baahhh gmail
[05:22] <beuno> juliux: launchpad?  :D
[05:23] <juliux> beuno, it shouldn't be open
[05:23] <juliux> beuno, i think i will setup an ticket system for that
[05:23] <jenda> juliux: I would definitely hate to have to go to an extra website to see the orders etc.
[05:23] <jenda> but meh, I can't do anything till I finish my work :) I'm off.
[05:23] <juliux> jenda, cu
[06:31] <juliux> gerr2, should i book the train?
[06:31] <juliux> gerr2, and is 4:42 right?