/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/08/07/#ubuntu-ops.txt

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jribwhy is the channel +Rr?01:23
Xorisclones earliers01:23
jribstill a problem?01:24
Xorisnot for some dozens of minutes, that i could see01:24
jribI'll -r since -unregged is starting to fill up01:25
Xorisi think tomaw set it, maybe he knows whether the r's may still be needed?01:26
tomawremove it01:26
tomawspambots earlier and I forgot to remove the modes, sorry01:27
jribnp01:29
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ubotuhwilde called the ops in #ubuntu03:55
ubotuhwilde called the ops in #ubuntu03:56
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ubotuMusic_Shuffle called the ops in #ubuntu05:38
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ubotubruenig called the ops in #ubuntu06:48
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Myrttiubotu needs a magic 8-ball function07:49
elkbuntui thought it had one07:57
Myrttiit does?07:57
Seveasmagic8ball is Myrtti crazy?07:58
Seveasforgot syntax :/07:58
Myrtti@magic8 will I get a good nights sleep tonight?07:59
Myrtti*shrug*07:59
Myrtti-->07:59
Seveas@magic8ball is Myrtti crazy?07:59
ubotuOf course07:59
Seveasthere we go07:59
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intelikeywhat can be done about removing a ban on a b class in #kubuntu ?08:12
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flaccidhi everyone. i've been trying to get a ban removed for months with no success. the ban is in #kubuntu and it seems there is nobody to talk to about it09:25
flaccidwas wondering if someone here is alive that can help09:25
MyrttiI'm marginally alive but I can't help, sorry09:25
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flaccidseems noone can09:27
ubotuundead called the ops in #kubuntu09:31
flaccidhmm thanks ubotu09:31
flaccidmaybe Jucato or someone is around09:32
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Hobbseenixternal: please dont spread rubbish10:13
Hobbseenixternal: Dont think that just because you broke your machine with it, that people in #ubuntu, #kubuntu, #edubuntu, and #xubuntu arent going to help you. No matter how you broke your machine, those channels are there to help you.10:14
Hobbseethat is incorrect.  people who have used automatix get sent to the automatix forums for support.10:14
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flaccidwhat did nixternal do wrong?10:52
flaccidoh you are defending automatix, Hobbsee?10:52
Hobbseeflaccid: no10:54
Hobbseeflaccid: just pointing out that we dont provide support for it in the userland channels.10:54
Hobbsee!automatix | nixternal10:54
ubotunixternal: Automatix2 is a block of code which attempts to install some software.  When it fails and breaks systems, we don't provide support for it.  A creditable analysis from a debian/ubuntu developer is here - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77440.html (Additional information: /msg ubotu worksforme)10:54
flaccidoh that factoid10:54
flaccidits been like that since i can remember10:54
Hobbseeit's changed recently, with the analysis.  but we still dont provide support for it, and nixternal is saying taht we do.10:55
flaccidoh10:55
flaccidi thought he was on the other side10:55
Hobbseehe's all for the "try to get along" side10:56
flaccidheh no worries. i hate automatix...10:56
flaccidautomatix is a fork of the objectives of an OS that is package based...10:56
flaccidwhy not build on base to provide a proper facility10:57
Hobbseewell, it'd be good if it wasnt smoking large amounts of crack10:57
Hobbseeand i dislike arnieboy greatly, due to him saying that all ubuntu developers are crack, that he's god, that he wrote the thing which makes people come to ubuntu, etc10:57
flaccidor if it gave me the crack to smoke instead10:57
flaccidbasically people always talk it up without citing anything specific to back up their claims. welcome to earth :)10:58
Hobbseeyeah, it's hard to document the irc logs and all teh commands needed to unscrew teh system.10:58
flaccidyeah. im generally sick of citing physical evidence on irc to back up my arguments, only to have the arguee state that 'im wrong and full of shit' or whatever11:00
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flaccidthen other people back that person up because who they are despite the fact they are wrong and have nothing to prove otherwise11:00
Hobbseejust kickban 'em.11:00
Hobbseeahem.11:00
flaccidim not an operator, simply a helper that devotes time to open source and has to put up with the ignorant ones11:00
flaccidim here trying to get a ban removed on myself.. oh that was set by an op that doesn't even help11:01
PriceChildflaccid, what channel?11:02
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flaccid#kubuntu11:03
flaccidor wherever i am if you talking about helping11:04
PriceChildthat's why i couldn't find it... was only typing one 'c'11:04
PriceChild*looks*11:04
flacciddanke11:04
flaccidits *!*@hardtrance.biz11:04
PriceChildYup11:05
PriceChildflaccid, are you aware of the Code of Conduct that we follow in #*ubuntu* channels?11:05
flaccidi help at work, i go home, im banned heh11:05
flaccidim aware of the COC more than the person who banned me...11:05
PriceChildflaccid, you were banned for telling someone to shut then *ahem* up.11:05
flaccidone can be driven to such extremes when pushed11:06
PriceChildThe intarwebs aren't worth getting worked up about.11:06
flaccidperhaps if LjL has some respect for me, that wouldn't of happened11:06
PriceChildIf it ever gets that bad again you should just step away from the keyboard and go grab a drink and relax away from it.11:07
flaccidyeah i tell myself that everyday11:07
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flaccideveryone has their moment of rage11:07
flaccidbut before that time i had been helping in the channel for over 2 years without running into somebody like that11:07
PriceChildSo if I unban you, you promise to watch your language? :)11:07
flaccidif you have a log, i'd like to read it11:07
PriceChildhttps://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/bans.cgi?query=hardtrance.biz&kicks=on&oldbans=on&bans=on&oldmutes=on&mutes=on11:08
flaccidi don't need to promise anything, like i said everyone has their time of rage11:08
flaccidmaking a promise would be unrealitic, but at the same time like i said, i don't act like that ever11:08
PriceChildflaccid, Please promise... just for me? We ask all users to abide by the CoC and IRC guidelines in our channels.11:08
flaccidi promise just for you, nobody else11:09
Hobbseeflaccid: if you're raging, you should step away from the keyboard.  you should not require others to gag you11:10
Hobbseeexploit in #ubuntu11:10
flaccidreading through the log now, its not exactly bad. only warranted a kick imo11:10
flaccidHobbsee: yeah sorry mate i know that. im actually an adult with intelligience ! :)11:11
PriceChildHobbsee, handled.11:11
PriceChildflaccid, thanks, the ban is lifted.11:12
flaccidi really appreciate that PriceChild11:12
flaccidnow the community can get more hours of help that they have not rcvd since may11:12
Hobbseeflaccid: glad to hear that :)11:12
PriceChildwooo11:12
=== flaccid wonders how one can ever achieve "trouble-free computing"
flaccidi guess thats an oxymoron11:17
flaccidi got no wb in #kubuntu ah well11:18
Tm_Tflaccid: so sad11:19
flaccidi guess that describes me well :)11:19
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Garyoops, sorry for nickspam :p01:43
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stdinuhh, can we not change !fuse to be about, oh I don't know, fuse?02:13
Tm_Tsure we can02:13
Myrtti!fuse02:14
ubotuThough it's still very unsafe, you can read about Ubuntu NTFS writing using fuse here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lkraider/NtfsFuse02:14
Myrttiheehhe02:14
Myrttilol02:14
Myrttithat's crap :-D02:14
stdinthat should be added to !ntfs or !ntfs-3g02:14
stdinI actually hate that !fuse factoid, makes fuse seem like it's only for ntfs, from #kubuntu: "ntfs-3g is successor to fuse?" < ugg02:15
flaccidi was asking a question, stdin02:15
flaccidnot making a statement02:15
flaccidthere is a big difference02:15
stdinflaccid: if you see what I just said in #kubuntu, you'll see how I interprated that02:16
flaccidmisinterpretd02:16
stdinflaccid: even if that's not what you actually meant :)02:17
flaccidits a question..02:17
flaccidi know nothing about fuse etc.02:17
stdinI still think !fuse needs changing02:17
flaccidi have no idea02:17
flaccidchange it to whatever is right02:17
flaccidlol02:17
flaccidi aint touched ntfs for write for some time02:17
stdinflaccid: it's a user space file system, it cool, lets you do some nice things. I use it to mount my ssh server :)02:18
flaccidhmm like a bridge02:20
flaccidor wrapper02:20
flaccidcool mate02:20
Tm_Tsshfs <302:21
stdinyeah, I install "sshfs" then do "sshfs server:/path/I/want /mount/point"  makes samba look like a toy :p02:21
Myrttifuse can be used to use beagle from the command line, it makes virtual directories and files of the search results02:21
MyrttiI think bluetooth obex mounting is also fuse02:22
stdinyeah obexfs02:24
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stdinTm_T: do you think this is ok, or too long...02:31
stdinFUSE (Filesystem in Userspace) is a !Kernel driver that allows non-root users to create their own filesystems. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_in_Userspace for more on !FUSE.  Some examples of filesystems that use FUSE are !ntfs-3g, sshfs and isofs. A full list of Filesystems that use FUSE is here:  http://fuse.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/FileSystems02:31
Tm_Tok to me02:33
pleia2looks good02:34
stdincan someone give it to ubotu then, as I don't have access :)02:35
flaccidi think thats fine stdin02:35
flaccidmuch better..02:35
stdincool :)02:35
Amaranth!fuse02:35
ubotuThough it's still very unsafe, you can read about Ubuntu NTFS writing using fuse here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lkraider/NtfsFuse02:35
flaccidouchy02:36
Amaranth!no fuse is <reply>  FUSE (Filesystem in Userspace) is a !kernel driver that allows non-root users to create their own filesystems. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_in_Userspace for more on FUSE.  Some examples of filesystems that use FUSE are !ntfs-3g, sshfs and isofs. A full list of Filesystems that use FUSE is here:  http://fuse.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/FileSystems02:36
ubotuI'll remember that Amaranth02:36
Amaranth!fuse02:36
ubotuFUSE (Filesystem in Userspace) is a !kernel driver that allows non-root users to create their own filesystems. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_in_Userspace for more on FUSE.  Some examples of filesystems that use FUSE are !ntfs-3g, sshfs and isofs. A full list of Filesystems that use FUSE is here:  http://fuse.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/FileSystems02:36
=== stdin feels much better now
Amaranth!ntfs-3g02:36
ubotuntfs-3g is a Linux driver which allows read/write access to NTFS partitions. Installation instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MountingWindowsPartitions02:36
stdincaptive02:44
stdinopps, wrong channel window02:44
Garycaptive?  as in tied down?02:45
flaccid!html02:46
ubotuhtml is HyperText Markup Language, used to build webpages. Editors in Ubuntu: Bluefish, Quanta+, Screem, and Nvu. For howto on HTML coding, see: http://www.w3schools.com02:46
flaccidlol w3schools... might as well link to m#02:46
stdinGary: hush, don't tell everyone our secrate02:46
Myrttioh yeah, theres even wikipediafs02:47
stdinthere's a BloggerFS too :p02:48
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dgjoneshi, are there any freenode staffers around to speak to about an unaffiliated cloak? i've tried #freenode and /stats p, but there's nobody around there, thought there may have been somebody here, if not i'll wait in #freenode, thanks in advance03:12
pleia2dgjones: wait in freenode, the available staff members here are the same ones in /stats p :)03:13
pleia2#freenode03:13
stdindgjones: /who freenode/staff* and /msg one03:13
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jendayo03:13
stdin(that's taken from the website, so you do have permission)03:13
mc44that works too03:13
dgjonesthanks everyone, i'll disappear03:14
jendadgjones: you're set :)03:14
mc44like magic! :D03:14
dgjonesjenda, thanks03:14
dgjones:)03:14
jendano prob03:14
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ubotuIdleOne called the ops in #ubuntu04:44
ubotuXoris^ called the ops in #ubuntu04:44
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ubotustdin called the ops in #kubuntu-offtopic04:59
stdincan someone kick/ban dawiz in #kubuntu and -ot?05:01
=== Hobbsee sigh
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flaccidhes gone now luckily lol05:02
flaccidi guesss you now that stdin sorry mate05:03
stdinheh, this is why the ban in -ot should be "[15:59]  <dawiz> well i can see you ppl cant respect my help and are set on making stupid points, you can take your bullshit and shove it up your ass, matter of fact i think ill be wiping kubuntu clean and using real debian not your spiffed up clone"05:03
naliothstdin: hi05:03
stdinhey nalioth :)05:03
naliothi saw everything (when i returned).  no need to spread the cheer in here further05:04
flaccidi guess my behind is sacred05:04
flaccidbut that doesn't make me scared about its border security05:04
stdinnalioth: sleeping ops :p05:04
naliothstdin: actually, it's called "life"05:05
flaccid*just making light of it05:05
stdinnalioth: yes, I know, I actually only got back ~5mins ago05:05
nixternalHobbsee: whether automatix is rubbish or not we shouldn't turn down supporting people. i see people getting ati and nvidia support all of the time because the drivers borked something up...it is the same crap literally05:09
Hobbseenixternal: we cant actually fix their problems, or anything.05:10
flaccidi half agreee, nixternal. its more work i guess. i've helped a few to recover. i guess i just hate it05:10
Hobbseenalioth: should have a fairly strong opinion on that05:10
elkbuntunixternal, if we deal with the issues, the automatix guys see it as ubuntu accepting the blame for the problems, and hence not the fault of automatix.05:11
nixternalthat is like saying "ubuntu is all about community, but if you have automatix, then you aren't apart of this community"05:11
Hobbseenixternal: you appear to not have spoken with arnieboy before, when you wrote that post05:11
nixternalwhether it is the fault of automatix, the user, or whatever, IT IS STILL UBUNTU!05:11
flacciduniverse of discourse...05:12
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nixternalI have spoken with arnieboy, and if I had a /chokehim script, I would have used it05:12
Hobbseehah05:12
nixternalhe is the one that made me wanna go bonkers last year05:12
Hobbseeso did he constantly tell you how terrible MOTU and core devs were?05:12
nixternalhe tried, but then I said "and Ubuntu is #1 why?"05:12
elkbuntunixternal, and he told you it was because of him alone?05:13
nixternalnot that I know of05:13
Hobbseesurprising05:13
elkbuntuhe has his fans brainwashed that way05:14
nixternalwell he also has his fans for providing a fix for a void that is in Ubuntu as well05:14
flaccidi didn't realise that users like this can't lure the world users hmm05:15
flaccidi mean can05:16
naliothwhy is it automatix week?05:18
elkbuntunalioth, because of matthew's report05:19
elkbuntunalioth, next week the tech board formalises a stance, i believe05:19
naliothdo they have a /chokehim script?05:20
naliothis their stance gonna change anything?05:20
nixternalprobably not05:21
naliothAB will still orbit around himself no matter what they say05:22
Hobbseenalioth: well, already apport will refuse to file a bug if automatix is detected on the system.05:22
nixternalI think that is wrong, what if automatix isn't the issue?05:22
naliothconsidering the instructions in automatix, it could bodger a lot05:23
Hobbseeit tends to be the issue05:23
nixternalwe are literally telling people, hey you put this on your ubuntu, so it it no longer our ubuntu and you aren't apart of this whole community thing05:23
Hobbseenixternal: oh sure, you're aprt of the community still - but you cant use this whole subset of stuff that non-automatix users can05:23
naliothnixternal: what's the difference in us saying that and Ford Motor Company saying "if you put jet fuel in your taurus, it's no longer our responsibility" ?05:23
nixternalwasn't that dodge and deisel fuel?05:24
naliothnixternal: my dodge runs fine on diesel fuel, don't FUDGE the point i'm making05:24
nixternallol05:24
elkbuntunixternal, it's like voiding a warranty on your printer by using non-genuine cartridges. They cant take reponsibility for the damage caused by stuff they never made05:25
nixternalit is a good point, but ford could care less if you buy another one or not05:25
flaccidi agree05:25
flaccidnixternal: yeah thats great customer service heh05:25
naliothnixternal: automatix is a 'known danger' to the healthful state of an Ubuntu system05:25
nixternalwho said we have to take responsibility? all I am saying is don't shun a user just because they put automatix on their system05:25
nixternalnalioth: so are ati binary blobs and nvidia binary blobs05:26
naliothnixternal: we dont' shun them, we ask them to reinstall and come back and see us05:26
nixternalI see more problems with those 2 nowadays that I do autocrappix05:26
naliothnixternal: those are not intentionally dangerous05:26
Hobbseenixternal: ati and nvidia only can trash your X.05:26
mc44nixternal: mostly because people install nvidia in all kinds of fun ways, like envy ;)05:26
nixternaland either is automatix...arnieboy is a newb developer...he created automatix originally by reading "bash in a nutshell" i think05:26
Hobbseenixternal: they dont render your system unbootable, mess up your fstab, your repos, and a whole bunch of other things05:27
naliotharnieboy has been approached by many people who offered to help him make his product safer, and he told them all to 'get f*****d, his software was perferct"05:27
flaccidah05:27
flaccidresistance05:27
flaccidmaking open source not open05:27
nixternalshoot, nvidia and ati driver may not render your system unbootable, but it sure scares the hell out of a new user who just got the black screen or curser blinking hell05:27
flaccidyeah its in the bin for those users05:28
Hobbseethis is true, but most p eople would prefer a system with no X, rather than being unbootable, *and* no X.05:28
nixternalnalioth: then I say we either fork his software, seeing as it is open source, or we create something similar...I mean it has been over a year since it came out and became popular, yet Ubuntu hasn't done anything about it05:28
flaccidpeople is built up of mainly newbies. they have no idea on no-gui Hobbsee05:28
Hobbseeflaccid: i'm aware, but they can usually search for a tech head.05:28
Hobbseeflaccid: a non-booting system, adn they're completely screwed regardless.05:29
nixternalya, no gui == holy $#))@ batman Microsoft Ubuntu broke my system!05:29
flaccidHobbsee: sif they want to or should have to do that!05:29
elkbuntunixternal, restricted drivers manager and easy codec installation are 'nothing'?!05:29
nixternaland if you don't believe the whole Microsoft Ubuntu thing, well we had someone in #ubuntu the other day asking if Microsoft made it05:29
nixternalelkbuntu: they are just 1/10th of what automatix does05:29
flacciddont fork automatix. identify what its trying to achieve that is lacking with ubuntu and just address that05:29
=== Hobbsee points to easyubuntu
flaccidnixternal: im not sure if that indicates anything ;(05:30
nixternaleasy ubuntu broke my dapper last year :)05:30
Hobbseenixternal: unfortunately, it seems that a lot of the stuff in automatix, which isnt in ubuntu, tends to be not-distributable.05:30
Hobbseelike, acroread05:30
flaccidoh05:30
nixternalya, why people want acroread is beyond me05:30
Hobbseealso, one can point to medibuntu, but the same thing applies - they're restributing stuff against the licence05:30
flaccidthat seems minor imo05:31
Hobbseenixternal: sometimes i have to use it - my maths quizzes rely on it05:31
nixternalreally?05:31
Hobbseewhich is a right pain05:31
Hobbseeyeah05:31
Hobbseeit really, really sucks.05:31
nixternalI havne't had a problem with KPDF...I wonder if it is the forms stuff maybe?05:31
Hobbseeit needs the reader, to do the interactive quizzes, inside firefox05:31
bbrazilacroread is in multiverse05:31
nixternal!info acroread05:31
ubotuPackage acroread does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas05:31
nixternalnot any more :)05:31
flaccidthen its more a commercial/license issue than a frontend installer thing05:32
=== Hobbsee suspects the uni is doing something crackful with the script they're using to serve the quizzes...
Hobbseebbrazil: hasnt been for a while... :)05:32
naliothnixternal: there is no need to 'fork his software'05:32
nixternalya, I think it left before edgy release05:32
naliothnixternal: the major functionality is now included in Feisty05:32
nalioththe prime users of his cruft, are newbs who find it by searching the internet05:33
flaccidcan i ask? why would automatix even be needed at all ?05:33
Seveasbecause some people like masochism?05:33
nixternalif it is included in feisty, why is he still getting 2tb of downloads a month for it? which more than half are from his Ubuntu repo05:33
naliothnewbs, who have no idea that when you click on an mp3, the dialog asks if you want to play it? you click 'yes' and it installs the codecs and away you go05:33
flaccidthe question is can ubuntu perform without automatix05:34
flaccidif yes then never support it.05:34
Seveasflaccid, better than with automatix :)05:34
=== Gary tickles Seveas
naliothflaccid: we've not supported automatix since we discovered it was a system torpedo05:35
=== flaccid wonders why its debatable at all then
Seveas(aka since ever)05:35
naliothflaccid: because arnieboy keeps brainwashing users into torpedoing their systems05:35
Seveasflaccid, why is windows stiull so succesful?05:35
flaccidwhy would 1 stupid user rock the ubuntu team?05:36
flaccidSeveas: thats not related in anyway. don't know why you would rebutt with that.05:36
Garywhy are you all still talking about automatix?05:36
Seveasflaccid, both windows and automatix are crap that likes to break pcs05:36
flaccidGary: i agree05:36
SeveasGary, no idea :)05:36
Garywell stop it then, I demand it :p05:37
flaccidSeveas: yeah but why does windows need to be involved in this convo at all..05:37
Garytalk about the weather or something05:37
Seveasit's raining05:37
Seveasweather sucks05:37
Seveasas does automatix :P05:37
Garyoh dear05:37
Gary:p05:37
=== nalioth recloaks Gary with /my/name/is/Mud
Garymeh05:38
Seveasdo it :)05:38
Garyand stil they pick on me :'(05:38
=== Gary cries
flaccidwhat is the primary objective of ubuntu distro?05:39
Seveasworld domination05:39
Garylol05:39
jribs/world/solar system05:39
Seveasand cookies05:39
Garyummm I like cookies05:39
mc44the promotion of the colour brown05:39
flaccidum it would need a high level of AI to be able to dominate the world..05:39
Seveasbrownies!05:39
flaccid:p05:39
Seveasflaccid, we have people, no need for AI05:39
Garymaking poo backgrounds stylish?05:39
flaccidit might seem funny to you guys. but im actually serious.05:40
Seveasalthough Gary could use some AI, heas real intelligence is flawed05:40
Garyflawed I tells ye05:40
=== Gary dribbles
flaccidso05:40
flaccidthere is no main objective05:40
flaccidmaybe thats the problem with ubuntu05:40
mc44er.?05:40
Garyflaccid, to be as good as possible05:40
mc44bug #105:40
ubotuLaunchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105:40
Seveasmc44, george ain't coming05:40
flaccidwhere is the objectives documented?05:40
flaccidlol thats launchapd, not ubuntu05:41
mc44no, "Bug 1 in Ubuntu"05:41
Seveasit's an ubuntu bug :)05:41
mc44right there, in the words05:41
flaccidok05:41
SeveasMICROSOFT MUST DIE05:41
flaccidso ubuntu is commercial05:41
Seveasor something like that05:41
mc44which is a silly objective, but still05:41
flaccidin an overall sense05:41
mc44canonical is commercial05:41
flaccidits completely stupid05:41
mc44ubuntu is linux05:41
flaccidit makes no sense05:41
jribfor human beings05:41
mc44neither do you05:41
Garybaaaaaaa moooo quack05:42
Seveasflaccid, so far, you made less sense than bug 1 :P05:42
ubotuLaunchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105:42
flaccidwell a project, needs goals, but you guys can't cite the primary goal05:42
Garywoo wonder what bug 69 was05:42
ubotuLaunchpad bug 69 in baz "baz switch doesn't generate three-way diff on conflicts" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/6905:42
TheSheepgah, can we change it to 'for human beings and sheep?'05:42
SeveasTheSheep, hehe05:42
mc44flaccid: its managed to do quite well so far,05:42
flaccidbugs != objectives05:42
=== mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v TheSheep] by ChanServ
mc44there are lots of goals, as there are lots of contributors, and its free software05:43
Seveasyadda yadda05:43
Seveasmost boring convo ever05:43
flaccidmc44: where can i read about these goals explicitly05:43
Seveasbbl05:43
flaccidboring05:43
flaccidlol05:43
flaccidthe jokes on you!05:43
mc44oh, poor us05:43
Garyon me?  where?  do I have to get my clothes dry cleaned, again?05:44
naliothflaccid: the goal is world domination (and then the solar system [an onward to the galaxy {and then the known universe}] )05:44
TheSheepto the space and beyound!05:45
mc44nalioth: hopefully far enough to discover new parentheses05:45
flaccidnalioth: where is the official doc on these goals that i can read05:45
TheSheeprighto onto thet Alt05:45
flaccidwill you press release that?05:45
mc44flaccid: there isn't one? whose goals? canonicals? upstream? kernel? community contributers? other distros?05:45
flaccidno wonder its all over the place, mc4405:45
mc44yes, no wonder. It'll never work05:45
=== Gary steals the troll food
flaccidit can work, but it needs management05:46
flaccidgary im not trolling05:46
flaccidim trying to help05:46
Garyyeah I need help05:46
Hobbseeflaccid: there's something to be said in actually googling for such things, and there's also something to be said in getting involved in the development of a project, before you say said development is crap.05:46
Hobbseeflaccid: all you're doing here is showing how much you dont understand.05:46
Hobbseeso, if you want to keep making a fool of yourself, go ahead...05:47
mc44Hobbsee: he understands *managment*. What do you expect :)05:47
flaccidHobbsee: 1. i google everday for ubuntu - it wastes a lot of time that could of been negated. 2. im involved . 3. i never said dev was crap!05:47
flaccidHobbsee: what don't i understand. please be specific this tiem..05:47
flaccidtime..05:47
mc44you don't seem to appreciate that there isn't a central master plan somewhere for linux05:48
Hobbseeflaccid: for a start, to make a press release, who would it be representing?05:48
flaccidmc44: im not talking about linux. im talking about *ubuntu05:48
flaccidHobbsee: ubuntu05:48
Hobbseeflaccid: as in, the people of ubuntu, the developers of ubuntu, canonical?05:49
flaccidHobbsee: ubuntu as a whole.05:49
Hobbseeif it's the ubuntu community, i couldnt hope to make an announcement from them - there are too many people.05:49
mc44well ubuntu is linux for a start, hence its direction depends on all kinds of other people, nevermind its own internal differences05:49
Hobbseeand so i could not be sure that i was reflecting everyone's view05:49
flaccidHobbsee: the ubuntu website seems to make announcements fine on their behalf so far..05:49
flaccidthese are the caveats05:50
mc44it makes release announcements, and canonical announcments05:50
Hobbseeflaccid: sure, but that's ubuntu, not the ubuntu community05:50
flaccidim on your side..05:50
flaccidhow will you achieve this world domination if you cannot play as a team??05:50
flaccidand thats not a trolling question.05:50
Hobbseeflaccid: we do.  you just do not appear to understand that there are teams, and subteams05:50
Hobbseeflaccid: and no one global leader overseeing everything05:51
flaccidHobbsee: the newbie doesn't care about teams and subteams...05:51
mc44we should leverage our synergies, net-net, and think outside the envelope to empower sucess in our bottom line05:51
Hobbseeflaccid: the newbies also dont ask for the explicit goals of ubuntu, do they?05:51
Hobbseeflaccid: they just want it to work05:51
flaccidHobbsee: m$ is scene to be one, not 4...05:51
flaccidand work, it doesn't..05:51
Hobbseedoes here05:51
flaccidscene=seen05:51
mc44na, doesn't work at all. Good point05:51
flaccidi spend hours each day helping people05:52
flaccidi doesn't work like its intended...05:52
flaccidit thats at least 50% vendor problem05:52
flaccidnot ubuntu05:52
flaccidbut it doesn't change the status quo05:52
flaccidim critical, but on your side.05:53
flaccidno response. thats cool. the average user who is not IT doesn't care about teams and sub-teams, they look at the provider as the provider and thats it - politics should be transparent to customers.05:58
Hobbseeflaccid: the goals for each release are in the release announcements05:59
Hobbseeflaccid: you are showing, though, that you dont really understand the concept of open source.05:59
flaccidno problem. i'll go read them. normal people don't even know what release announcemenats are :)06:00
flaccidi understand the concept of open source06:00
nixternalthey are the small link in the bottom left hand corner of the LiveCD installer :)06:00
TheSheepflaccid: we can't force knowledge into people's mind if they refuse to read it06:00
mc44normal people don't care about goals either?06:00
flaccidi am not understanding how world domination is possible with this regime...06:00
Hobbseeflaccid: yet you dont understand how there is no real parent company behind "ubuntu" as a whole06:00
flaccidexpecting people to read things is a bad thing to begin with06:00
mc44no one expects them to read anything06:01
Hobbseeflaccid: you seem to be expecting there to be a big boss who says "this is the way it is", right down to every little detail06:01
mc44they should just get an OS that works06:01
Hobbseebut now, you appear to be trolling.06:01
flaccidto be honest, i don't care about the political/business structure, im just talking about the end user...06:01
flaccidman im not trolling alright06:01
mc44what about the end user?06:01
PriceChild!topic06:01
ubotuPlease read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic06:01
flaccidthe end user wants things to work06:01
PriceChildflaccid, is there anything else we can help you with?06:01
nixternaldamn, walk away for a minute and get in when not even knowing the flavor of the cool aid06:01
flaccidfine06:02
flaccidlets ignore it.06:02
flaccidi tired the documentation team06:02
flaccidand i tried here06:02
flaccidi think nixternal rejected me on the doco thing06:02
nixternalthe goals are called specifications by the way, and they are all on LP06:02
nixternalhow did I reject you?06:02
flaccidapparently a topic based system which confuses users is suffice, thats cool i guess06:03
PriceChildflaccid, This channel is for operator/abuse questions. If you would like to discuss Ubuntu in general, feel free to head to #ubuntu-offtopic.06:03
ubotuhwilde called the ops in #ubuntu06:03
flaccidnixternal: are you on ubuntu-doc team06:03
flaccidPriceChild: ok06:03
nixternalyes06:03
flaccidlet me just check06:03
flaccidok rich, was you06:07
nixternaland is still me :)06:07
flaccidthats cool, we didn't see eye to eye06:07
nixternaldon't know what you are talking about, but OK06:07
flaccidwiki is only good if 1 version of the same topic maintained06:08
flaccidproblem is many version all over the place for doco06:08
flaccidno 'definitive guide'06:08
nixternalwho reads the guides anyways? it is better to ask your help system "how do I do this or that?" than it is to browse a guide and hopefully run across what you are looking for06:09
flaccidok06:09
flaccidyeah 1. the user needs to know how to get there 2. they hope there search is suffice06:09
flaccidthere=their06:10
flaccidits more about the duplicity of the subjects than the availability of support...06:10
flaccidif i have a person used to windows that is not computer literate, sending them to current support channels is just not viable.06:11
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mc44irc, forums, mailing lists, launchpad, wiki etc aren't viable?06:12
ubotukitche called the ops in #ubuntu06:12
flaccidmc44: they are a lot of work, just to use their computer06:12
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raf256what seems to be the problem? someone just banned me?06:12
PriceChildraf256, don't try it...06:12
Hobbseethat nick looks familiar.06:12
raf256try what?06:12
Hobbseevery familiar06:12
flaccidmc44: no normal user wants to do that. they don't even know what a forum, irc, mailing list, launchpad, wiki etc. are..06:12
PriceChildraf256, even if that image wasn't the first thing that came to mind... that was totally inappropriate06:13
PriceChild!offtopic | flaccid06:13
ubotuflaccid: #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, #ubuntu+1 supports the development version of Ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome!06:13
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elkbunturaf256, we do not care about any descriptor of that part of a horse06:13
raf256elkbuntu: something wrong in image of a chicken?06:13
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Seveazjeez, is flaccid still on it?06:13
raf256PriceChild: sheesh, on most other channels such small joke is rather wellcommed :/06:15
Seveasraf256, not in #ubuntu06:15
Hobbseeraf256: do you lack common sense?06:15
nixternalobviously06:15
Hobbsee!coc | raf25606:15
uboturaf256: The Ubuntu Code of Conduct to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/06:15
PriceChild#ubuntu is support and support only. You have been around some time and most definitely ought to know better.06:15
Hobbsee!guidelines | raf25606:15
uboturaf256: The people in this channel are volunteers. Your attitude will determine how fast you are helped. See also http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines06:15
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raf256Well ok, I suppose not all channels can have relaxed ops that check first06:19
PriceChildraf256, regardless of the fact that it was a "harmless" photo... it was still not appropriate.06:20
=== Hobbsee wonders if it's full moon or something
nixternallol06:20
raf256well #perl and #suse failed as well that test.  #bash won :) well it do have over 300 ops btw06:21
PriceChildWhat is appropriate in #perl, #suse or any others... has no relevance to our decision.06:21
nixternalwho cares...we told you the rules, it isn't accepted, especially the title...if you don't have any more to add, then thanks for joining us and please have a nice day06:22
raf256 <sPiN> pardon me for confusing you for a sick monkey  ok I guess suse won as well.  PriceChild so is any op going to correct beeing a bit too hasty perhaps :) ?06:22
raf256nixternal: ok I will read them06:22
nixternaland no it won't be fixed..I could care less if the image was of beautiful sunset...you came, posted a link with an unacceptable name that has nothing to do with ubuntu support06:23
raf256nixternal: the name doesnt mean what you think it do06:31
Hobbseeyour point?06:31
raf256Hobbsee: neither picture or its name is bad, which is obvious if you dont act hasty but give any chance and check first06:32
mc44of course the name is bad, otherwise it wouldn't have been "funny" to post it06:33
nixternalwhy should I have to check it? and if I did check it and it was goatse or what not, then I would be even more pissed...06:33
nixternalsimple as that, no need to argue or tell us to relax06:33
raf256nixternal: if you find that image in any way offensive I will ask staff to kline me for life06:33
nixternalraf256: I am not looking at it for one, so I can't find it offensive, but I did find the link name offensive...enough said!06:34
Hobbseeraf256: if you havent figured this out yet, toilet jokes and what you put into #ubuntu may be acceptable for around your small group of friends, but arent acceptable in large public channels.06:34
Hobbseeraf256: however, if you're going to act like this, then go ahead and ask the staff to kline you for life...06:34
raf256Hobbsee: then why this exact link and text is a factoid on a 400 nicks channel ##c++ ?06:34
nixternalplus posting a link that has nothing to do with an ubuntu problem that you may need help with isn't acceptable either06:34
nixternalraf256: because they are childish!06:34
raf256nixternal: shure06:35
Hobbseeraf256: especially support channels.06:35
PriceChildraf256, i repeat... what is acceptable elsewhere has no relevance here.06:35
nixternalwho cares...we told you our stance06:35
Hobbseeraf256: because they seem to have a mental age of about 10, like you seem to.06:35
nixternalHobbsee: you are giving him to much06:35
PriceChildraf256, the ban will be lifted in due time. Is there anything else we can help you with?06:35
Hobbseeraf256: the rest of the world does not have a mental age of 10, thank goodness.06:35
elkbunturaf256, drop this discussion please. you can choose to leave on your own accord, or forcibly so. the decision is yours06:35
raf256shure, other ops at least appologized, too bad ubuntu is less friendly then it advertises. Just a thing to think about. God day then :)06:38
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Myrttiwhat a weird puppy06:38
elkbuntuMyrtti, recidivist troll06:38
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HobbseePriceChild: i thought he promised to be a sane human being.06:39
elkbuntuHobbsee, his definition of sane varies from ours06:39
Hobbseeelkbuntu: it must do06:39
jussi01hmmm, looks like you guys have been having fun...06:41
nixternalI have banned that guy from more places than one could ever imagine06:42
jussi01btw, now that it seems safe to interupt, what do the 4 little coloured dots in the new konversation mean?06:42
Hobbseenixternal: which one?06:43
nixternalraf25606:43
Hobbseeah, right06:43
jussi01and why is Hobbsee special...?? :P06:44
PriceChildjussi01, don't argue with that pointy stick06:45
Hobbseeheh06:45
Hobbseebecause i removed flaccid, and am unconvinced over having to do it again06:45
jussi01PriceChild: im not...06:45
jussi01no, i mean Hobbseehas blue dots, and no one else has...06:45
Hobbseejussi01: because i'm +o06:46
jussi01ahhh06:46
nixternallol06:46
nixternalI was looking for blue dots!06:46
jussi01lol06:46
Hobbseewe could just...shove him into ##unavailable....06:46
jussi01ok,1 more thing, where can i find a list of all the +o,+e etcs?06:48
jussi01and what they mean...06:48
Hobbseehelp, what's this, and click on the side panel with the dots06:48
jussi01Hobbsee: yeah, but I want to know all the general IRC +o +e things...06:50
Hobbseejussi01: you can change the theme in the settings06:50
jussi01Hobbsee: thats cool, its good like it is :)06:51
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jribPriceChild: too fast :)07:18
PriceChild;)07:18
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Myrttierrrr07:56
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jribnixternal: think it's safe to -r?08:03
nixternalprobably so08:04
naliothall klined08:05
jrib"14:05 <      Flameviper> I heard from the source that the Freenode attackers are raiding this channel"08:06
nixternalwhich channel is that?08:08
nixternalI just got a similar message?08:08
jribhe was in #ubuntu I think08:09
naliothflameviper is a known troll.08:10
jendalol08:11
naliothplease feel free to /ignore08:11
jendaindeed he is08:11
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jribheh, can someone -i #ubuntu-unregged, my connection dropped08:12
jribnever mind08:14
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ubotuaneb called the ops in #ubuntu10:38
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dgeorgehi im here for a test10:43
dgeorgeI just followed the FixDDCExploit10:44
ompaulguess that is fixed let me let you back into #ubuntu10:48
ompaulyou may rejoin #ubuntu10:49
ompauldgeorge, ^^10:49
ompauldgeorge, you are free to join #ubuntu10:50
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ubotuXoris called the ops in #ubuntu11:39
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PriceChildHi Xoris, can I help you?12:01
XorisPriceChild no thanks, i just reconnected after getting disconnected12:02
Xorisjust seeing how the channel works12:02
PriceChildAny particular reason?12:02
XorisPriceChild, well no, just curious. if you prefer that i leave, no problem12:03
PriceChildWell of course there's a reason! :) Noone just randomly turns up in our ops channel.12:04
XorisPriceChild, i saw ops were there on whois, that's all12:05

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