[01:23] <jrib> why is the channel +Rr?
[01:23] <Xoris> clones earliers
[01:24] <jrib> still a problem?
[01:24] <Xoris> not for some dozens of minutes, that i could see
[01:25] <jrib> I'll -r since -unregged is starting to fill up
[01:26] <Xoris> i think tomaw set it, maybe he knows whether the r's may still be needed?
[01:26] <tomaw> remove it
[01:27] <tomaw> spambots earlier and I forgot to remove the modes, sorry
[01:29] <jrib> np
[03:55] <ubotu> hwilde called the ops in #ubuntu
[03:56] <ubotu> hwilde called the ops in #ubuntu
[05:38] <ubotu> Music_Shuffle called the ops in #ubuntu
[06:48] <ubotu> bruenig called the ops in #ubuntu
[07:49] <Myrtti> ubotu needs a magic 8-ball function
[07:57] <elkbuntu> i thought it had one
[07:57] <Myrtti> it does?
[07:58] <Seveas> magic8ball is Myrtti crazy?
[07:58] <Seveas> forgot syntax :/
[07:59] <Myrtti> @magic8 will I get a good nights sleep tonight?
[07:59] <Myrtti> *shrug*
[07:59] <Myrtti> -->
[07:59] <Seveas> @magic8ball is Myrtti crazy?
[07:59] <ubotu> Of course
[07:59] <Seveas> there we go
[08:12] <intelikey> what can be done about removing a ban on a b class in #kubuntu ?
[09:25] <flaccid> hi everyone. i've been trying to get a ban removed for months with no success. the ban is in #kubuntu and it seems there is nobody to talk to about it
[09:25] <flaccid> was wondering if someone here is alive that can help
[09:25] <Myrtti> I'm marginally alive but I can't help, sorry
[09:27] <flaccid> seems noone can
[09:31] <ubotu> undead called the ops in #kubuntu
[09:31] <flaccid> hmm thanks ubotu
[09:32] <flaccid> maybe Jucato or someone is around
[10:13] <Hobbsee> nixternal: please dont spread rubbish
[10:14] <Hobbsee> nixternal: Dont think that just because you broke your machine with it, that people in #ubuntu, #kubuntu, #edubuntu, and #xubuntu arent going to help you. No matter how you broke your machine, those channels are there to help you.
[10:14] <Hobbsee> that is incorrect.  people who have used automatix get sent to the automatix forums for support.
[10:52] <flaccid> what did nixternal do wrong?
[10:52] <flaccid> oh you are defending automatix, Hobbsee?
[10:54] <Hobbsee> flaccid: no
[10:54] <Hobbsee> flaccid: just pointing out that we dont provide support for it in the userland channels.
[10:54] <Hobbsee> !automatix | nixternal
[10:54] <ubotu> nixternal: Automatix2 is a block of code which attempts to install some software.  When it fails and breaks systems, we don't provide support for it.  A creditable analysis from a debian/ubuntu developer is here - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77440.html (Additional information: /msg ubotu worksforme)
[10:54] <flaccid> oh that factoid
[10:54] <flaccid> its been like that since i can remember
[10:55] <Hobbsee> it's changed recently, with the analysis.  but we still dont provide support for it, and nixternal is saying taht we do.
[10:55] <flaccid> oh
[10:55] <flaccid> i thought he was on the other side
[10:56] <Hobbsee> he's all for the "try to get along" side
[10:56] <flaccid> heh no worries. i hate automatix...
[10:56] <flaccid> automatix is a fork of the objectives of an OS that is package based...
[10:57] <flaccid> why not build on base to provide a proper facility
[10:57] <Hobbsee> well, it'd be good if it wasnt smoking large amounts of crack
[10:57] <Hobbsee> and i dislike arnieboy greatly, due to him saying that all ubuntu developers are crack, that he's god, that he wrote the thing which makes people come to ubuntu, etc
[10:57] <flaccid> or if it gave me the crack to smoke instead
[10:58] <flaccid> basically people always talk it up without citing anything specific to back up their claims. welcome to earth :)
[10:58] <Hobbsee> yeah, it's hard to document the irc logs and all teh commands needed to unscrew teh system.
[11:00] <flaccid> yeah. im generally sick of citing physical evidence on irc to back up my arguments, only to have the arguee state that 'im wrong and full of shit' or whatever
[11:00] <flaccid> then other people back that person up because who they are despite the fact they are wrong and have nothing to prove otherwise
[11:00] <Hobbsee> just kickban 'em.
[11:00] <Hobbsee> ahem.
[11:00] <flaccid> im not an operator, simply a helper that devotes time to open source and has to put up with the ignorant ones
[11:01] <flaccid> im here trying to get a ban removed on myself.. oh that was set by an op that doesn't even help
[11:02] <PriceChild> flaccid, what channel?
[11:03] <flaccid> #kubuntu
[11:04] <flaccid> or wherever i am if you talking about helping
[11:04] <PriceChild> that's why i couldn't find it... was only typing one 'c'
[11:04] <PriceChild> *looks*
[11:04] <flaccid> danke
[11:04] <flaccid> its *!*@hardtrance.biz
[11:05] <PriceChild> Yup
[11:05] <PriceChild> flaccid, are you aware of the Code of Conduct that we follow in #*ubuntu* channels?
[11:05] <flaccid> i help at work, i go home, im banned heh
[11:05] <flaccid> im aware of the COC more than the person who banned me...
[11:05] <PriceChild> flaccid, you were banned for telling someone to shut then *ahem* up.
[11:06] <flaccid> one can be driven to such extremes when pushed
[11:06] <PriceChild> The intarwebs aren't worth getting worked up about.
[11:06] <flaccid> perhaps if LjL has some respect for me, that wouldn't of happened
[11:07] <PriceChild> If it ever gets that bad again you should just step away from the keyboard and go grab a drink and relax away from it.
[11:07] <flaccid> yeah i tell myself that everyday
[11:07] <flaccid> everyone has their moment of rage
[11:07] <flaccid> but before that time i had been helping in the channel for over 2 years without running into somebody like that
[11:07] <PriceChild> So if I unban you, you promise to watch your language? :)
[11:07] <flaccid> if you have a log, i'd like to read it
[11:08] <PriceChild> https://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/bans.cgi?query=hardtrance.biz&kicks=on&oldbans=on&bans=on&oldmutes=on&mutes=on
[11:08] <flaccid> i don't need to promise anything, like i said everyone has their time of rage
[11:08] <flaccid> making a promise would be unrealitic, but at the same time like i said, i don't act like that ever
[11:08] <PriceChild> flaccid, Please promise... just for me? We ask all users to abide by the CoC and IRC guidelines in our channels.
[11:09] <flaccid> i promise just for you, nobody else
[11:10] <Hobbsee> flaccid: if you're raging, you should step away from the keyboard.  you should not require others to gag you
[11:10] <Hobbsee> exploit in #ubuntu
[11:10] <flaccid> reading through the log now, its not exactly bad. only warranted a kick imo
[11:11] <flaccid> Hobbsee: yeah sorry mate i know that. im actually an adult with intelligience ! :)
[11:11] <PriceChild> Hobbsee, handled.
[11:12] <PriceChild> flaccid, thanks, the ban is lifted.
[11:12] <flaccid> i really appreciate that PriceChild
[11:12] <flaccid> now the community can get more hours of help that they have not rcvd since may
[11:12] <Hobbsee> flaccid: glad to hear that :)
[11:12] <PriceChild> wooo
[11:17] <flaccid> i guess thats an oxymoron
[11:18] <flaccid> i got no wb in #kubuntu ah well
[11:19] <Tm_T> flaccid: so sad
[11:19] <flaccid> i guess that describes me well :)
[01:43] <Gary> oops, sorry for nickspam :p
[02:13] <stdin> uhh, can we not change !fuse to be about, oh I don't know, fuse?
[02:13] <Tm_T> sure we can
[02:14] <Myrtti> !fuse
[02:14] <ubotu> Though it's still very unsafe, you can read about Ubuntu NTFS writing using fuse here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lkraider/NtfsFuse
[02:14] <Myrtti> heehhe
[02:14] <Myrtti> lol
[02:14] <Myrtti> that's crap :-D
[02:14] <stdin> that should be added to !ntfs or !ntfs-3g
[02:15] <stdin> I actually hate that !fuse factoid, makes fuse seem like it's only for ntfs, from #kubuntu: "ntfs-3g is successor to fuse?" < ugg
[02:15] <flaccid> i was asking a question, stdin
[02:15] <flaccid> not making a statement
[02:15] <flaccid> there is a big difference
[02:16] <stdin> flaccid: if you see what I just said in #kubuntu, you'll see how I interprated that
[02:16] <flaccid> misinterpretd
[02:17] <stdin> flaccid: even if that's not what you actually meant :)
[02:17] <flaccid> its a question..
[02:17] <flaccid> i know nothing about fuse etc.
[02:17] <stdin> I still think !fuse needs changing
[02:17] <flaccid> i have no idea
[02:17] <flaccid> change it to whatever is right
[02:17] <flaccid> lol
[02:17] <flaccid> i aint touched ntfs for write for some time
[02:18] <stdin> flaccid: it's a user space file system, it cool, lets you do some nice things. I use it to mount my ssh server :)
[02:20] <flaccid> hmm like a bridge
[02:20] <flaccid> or wrapper
[02:20] <flaccid> cool mate
[02:21] <Tm_T> sshfs <3
[02:21] <stdin> yeah, I install "sshfs" then do "sshfs server:/path/I/want /mount/point"  makes samba look like a toy :p
[02:21] <Myrtti> fuse can be used to use beagle from the command line, it makes virtual directories and files of the search results
[02:22] <Myrtti> I think bluetooth obex mounting is also fuse
[02:24] <stdin> yeah obexfs
[02:31] <stdin> Tm_T: do you think this is ok, or too long...
[02:31] <stdin> FUSE (Filesystem in Userspace) is a !Kernel driver that allows non-root users to create their own filesystems. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_in_Userspace for more on !FUSE.  Some examples of filesystems that use FUSE are !ntfs-3g, sshfs and isofs. A full list of Filesystems that use FUSE is here:  http://fuse.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/FileSystems
[02:33] <Tm_T> ok to me
[02:34] <pleia2> looks good
[02:35] <stdin> can someone give it to ubotu then, as I don't have access :)
[02:35] <flaccid> i think thats fine stdin
[02:35] <flaccid> much better..
[02:35] <stdin> cool :)
[02:35] <Amaranth> !fuse
[02:35] <ubotu> Though it's still very unsafe, you can read about Ubuntu NTFS writing using fuse here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lkraider/NtfsFuse
[02:36] <flaccid> ouchy
[02:36] <Amaranth> !no fuse is <reply>  FUSE (Filesystem in Userspace) is a !kernel driver that allows non-root users to create their own filesystems. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_in_Userspace for more on FUSE.  Some examples of filesystems that use FUSE are !ntfs-3g, sshfs and isofs. A full list of Filesystems that use FUSE is here:  http://fuse.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/FileSystems
[02:36] <ubotu> I'll remember that Amaranth
[02:36] <Amaranth> !fuse
[02:36] <ubotu> FUSE (Filesystem in Userspace) is a !kernel driver that allows non-root users to create their own filesystems. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_in_Userspace for more on FUSE.  Some examples of filesystems that use FUSE are !ntfs-3g, sshfs and isofs. A full list of Filesystems that use FUSE is here:  http://fuse.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/FileSystems
[02:36] <Amaranth> !ntfs-3g
[02:36] <ubotu> ntfs-3g is a Linux driver which allows read/write access to NTFS partitions. Installation instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MountingWindowsPartitions
[02:44] <stdin> captive
[02:44] <stdin> opps, wrong channel window
[02:45] <Gary> captive?  as in tied down?
[02:46] <flaccid> !html
[02:46] <ubotu> html is HyperText Markup Language, used to build webpages. Editors in Ubuntu: Bluefish, Quanta+, Screem, and Nvu. For howto on HTML coding, see: http://www.w3schools.com
[02:46] <flaccid> lol w3schools... might as well link to m#
[02:46] <stdin> Gary: hush, don't tell everyone our secrate
[02:47] <Myrtti> oh yeah, theres even wikipediafs
[02:48] <stdin> there's a BloggerFS too :p
[03:12] <dgjones> hi, are there any freenode staffers around to speak to about an unaffiliated cloak? i've tried #freenode and /stats p, but there's nobody around there, thought there may have been somebody here, if not i'll wait in #freenode, thanks in advance
[03:13] <pleia2> dgjones: wait in freenode, the available staff members here are the same ones in /stats p :)
[03:13] <pleia2> #freenode
[03:13] <stdin> dgjones: /who freenode/staff* and /msg one
[03:13] <jenda> yo
[03:13] <stdin> (that's taken from the website, so you do have permission)
[03:13] <mc44> that works too
[03:14] <dgjones> thanks everyone, i'll disappear
[03:14] <jenda> dgjones: you're set :)
[03:14] <mc44> like magic! :D
[03:14] <dgjones> jenda, thanks
[03:14] <dgjones> :)
[03:14] <jenda> no prob
[04:44] <ubotu> IdleOne called the ops in #ubuntu
[04:44] <ubotu> Xoris^ called the ops in #ubuntu
[04:59] <ubotu> stdin called the ops in #kubuntu-offtopic
[05:01] <stdin> can someone kick/ban dawiz in #kubuntu and -ot?
[05:02] <flaccid> hes gone now luckily lol
[05:03] <flaccid> i guesss you now that stdin sorry mate
[05:03] <stdin> heh, this is why the ban in -ot should be "[15:59]  <dawiz> well i can see you ppl cant respect my help and are set on making stupid points, you can take your bullshit and shove it up your ass, matter of fact i think ill be wiping kubuntu clean and using real debian not your spiffed up clone"
[05:03] <nalioth> stdin: hi
[05:03] <stdin> hey nalioth :)
[05:04] <nalioth> i saw everything (when i returned).  no need to spread the cheer in here further
[05:04] <flaccid> i guess my behind is sacred
[05:04] <flaccid> but that doesn't make me scared about its border security
[05:04] <stdin> nalioth: sleeping ops :p
[05:05] <nalioth> stdin: actually, it's called "life"
[05:05] <flaccid> *just making light of it
[05:05] <stdin> nalioth: yes, I know, I actually only got back ~5mins ago
[05:09] <nixternal> Hobbsee: whether automatix is rubbish or not we shouldn't turn down supporting people. i see people getting ati and nvidia support all of the time because the drivers borked something up...it is the same crap literally
[05:10] <Hobbsee> nixternal: we cant actually fix their problems, or anything.
[05:10] <flaccid> i half agreee, nixternal. its more work i guess. i've helped a few to recover. i guess i just hate it
[05:10] <Hobbsee> nalioth: should have a fairly strong opinion on that
[05:11] <elkbuntu> nixternal, if we deal with the issues, the automatix guys see it as ubuntu accepting the blame for the problems, and hence not the fault of automatix.
[05:11] <nixternal> that is like saying "ubuntu is all about community, but if you have automatix, then you aren't apart of this community"
[05:11] <Hobbsee> nixternal: you appear to not have spoken with arnieboy before, when you wrote that post
[05:11] <nixternal> whether it is the fault of automatix, the user, or whatever, IT IS STILL UBUNTU!
[05:12] <flaccid> universe of discourse...
[05:12] <nixternal> I have spoken with arnieboy, and if I had a /chokehim script, I would have used it
[05:12] <Hobbsee> hah
[05:12] <nixternal> he is the one that made me wanna go bonkers last year
[05:12] <Hobbsee> so did he constantly tell you how terrible MOTU and core devs were?
[05:12] <nixternal> he tried, but then I said "and Ubuntu is #1 why?"
[05:13] <elkbuntu> nixternal, and he told you it was because of him alone?
[05:13] <nixternal> not that I know of
[05:13] <Hobbsee> surprising
[05:14] <elkbuntu> he has his fans brainwashed that way
[05:14] <nixternal> well he also has his fans for providing a fix for a void that is in Ubuntu as well
[05:15] <flaccid> i didn't realise that users like this can't lure the world users hmm
[05:16] <flaccid> i mean can
[05:18] <nalioth> why is it automatix week?
[05:19] <elkbuntu> nalioth, because of matthew's report
[05:19] <elkbuntu> nalioth, next week the tech board formalises a stance, i believe
[05:20] <nalioth> do they have a /chokehim script?
[05:20] <nalioth> is their stance gonna change anything?
[05:21] <nixternal> probably not
[05:22] <nalioth> AB will still orbit around himself no matter what they say
[05:22] <Hobbsee> nalioth: well, already apport will refuse to file a bug if automatix is detected on the system.
[05:22] <nixternal> I think that is wrong, what if automatix isn't the issue?
[05:23] <nalioth> considering the instructions in automatix, it could bodger a lot
[05:23] <Hobbsee> it tends to be the issue
[05:23] <nixternal> we are literally telling people, hey you put this on your ubuntu, so it it no longer our ubuntu and you aren't apart of this whole community thing
[05:23] <Hobbsee> nixternal: oh sure, you're aprt of the community still - but you cant use this whole subset of stuff that non-automatix users can
[05:23] <nalioth> nixternal: what's the difference in us saying that and Ford Motor Company saying "if you put jet fuel in your taurus, it's no longer our responsibility" ?
[05:24] <nixternal> wasn't that dodge and deisel fuel?
[05:24] <nalioth> nixternal: my dodge runs fine on diesel fuel, don't FUDGE the point i'm making
[05:24] <nixternal> lol
[05:25] <elkbuntu> nixternal, it's like voiding a warranty on your printer by using non-genuine cartridges. They cant take reponsibility for the damage caused by stuff they never made
[05:25] <nixternal> it is a good point, but ford could care less if you buy another one or not
[05:25] <flaccid> i agree
[05:25] <flaccid> nixternal: yeah thats great customer service heh
[05:25] <nalioth> nixternal: automatix is a 'known danger' to the healthful state of an Ubuntu system
[05:25] <nixternal> who said we have to take responsibility? all I am saying is don't shun a user just because they put automatix on their system
[05:26] <nixternal> nalioth: so are ati binary blobs and nvidia binary blobs
[05:26] <nalioth> nixternal: we dont' shun them, we ask them to reinstall and come back and see us
[05:26] <nixternal> I see more problems with those 2 nowadays that I do autocrappix
[05:26] <nalioth> nixternal: those are not intentionally dangerous
[05:26] <Hobbsee> nixternal: ati and nvidia only can trash your X.
[05:26] <mc44> nixternal: mostly because people install nvidia in all kinds of fun ways, like envy ;)
[05:26] <nixternal> and either is automatix...arnieboy is a newb developer...he created automatix originally by reading "bash in a nutshell" i think
[05:27] <Hobbsee> nixternal: they dont render your system unbootable, mess up your fstab, your repos, and a whole bunch of other things
[05:27] <nalioth> arnieboy has been approached by many people who offered to help him make his product safer, and he told them all to 'get f*****d, his software was perferct"
[05:27] <flaccid> ah
[05:27] <flaccid> resistance
[05:27] <flaccid> making open source not open
[05:27] <nixternal> shoot, nvidia and ati driver may not render your system unbootable, but it sure scares the hell out of a new user who just got the black screen or curser blinking hell
[05:28] <flaccid> yeah its in the bin for those users
[05:28] <Hobbsee> this is true, but most p eople would prefer a system with no X, rather than being unbootable, *and* no X.
[05:28] <nixternal> nalioth: then I say we either fork his software, seeing as it is open source, or we create something similar...I mean it has been over a year since it came out and became popular, yet Ubuntu hasn't done anything about it
[05:28] <flaccid> people is built up of mainly newbies. they have no idea on no-gui Hobbsee
[05:28] <Hobbsee> flaccid: i'm aware, but they can usually search for a tech head.
[05:29] <Hobbsee> flaccid: a non-booting system, adn they're completely screwed regardless.
[05:29] <nixternal> ya, no gui == holy $#))@ batman Microsoft Ubuntu broke my system!
[05:29] <flaccid> Hobbsee: sif they want to or should have to do that!
[05:29] <elkbuntu> nixternal, restricted drivers manager and easy codec installation are 'nothing'?!
[05:29] <nixternal> and if you don't believe the whole Microsoft Ubuntu thing, well we had someone in #ubuntu the other day asking if Microsoft made it
[05:29] <nixternal> elkbuntu: they are just 1/10th of what automatix does
[05:29] <flaccid> dont fork automatix. identify what its trying to achieve that is lacking with ubuntu and just address that
[05:30] <flaccid> nixternal: im not sure if that indicates anything ;(
[05:30] <nixternal> easy ubuntu broke my dapper last year :)
[05:30] <Hobbsee> nixternal: unfortunately, it seems that a lot of the stuff in automatix, which isnt in ubuntu, tends to be not-distributable.
[05:30] <Hobbsee> like, acroread
[05:30] <flaccid> oh
[05:30] <nixternal> ya, why people want acroread is beyond me
[05:30] <Hobbsee> also, one can point to medibuntu, but the same thing applies - they're restributing stuff against the licence
[05:31] <flaccid> that seems minor imo
[05:31] <Hobbsee> nixternal: sometimes i have to use it - my maths quizzes rely on it
[05:31] <nixternal> really?
[05:31] <Hobbsee> which is a right pain
[05:31] <Hobbsee> yeah
[05:31] <Hobbsee> it really, really sucks.
[05:31] <nixternal> I havne't had a problem with KPDF...I wonder if it is the forms stuff maybe?
[05:31] <Hobbsee> it needs the reader, to do the interactive quizzes, inside firefox
[05:31] <bbrazil> acroread is in multiverse
[05:31] <nixternal> !info acroread
[05:31] <ubotu> Package acroread does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas
[05:31] <nixternal> not any more :)
[05:32] <flaccid> then its more a commercial/license issue than a frontend installer thing
[05:32] <Hobbsee> bbrazil: hasnt been for a while... :)
[05:32] <nalioth> nixternal: there is no need to 'fork his software'
[05:32] <nixternal> ya, I think it left before edgy release
[05:32] <nalioth> nixternal: the major functionality is now included in Feisty
[05:33] <nalioth> the prime users of his cruft, are newbs who find it by searching the internet
[05:33] <flaccid> can i ask? why would automatix even be needed at all ?
[05:33] <Seveas> because some people like masochism?
[05:33] <nixternal> if it is included in feisty, why is he still getting 2tb of downloads a month for it? which more than half are from his Ubuntu repo
[05:33] <nalioth> newbs, who have no idea that when you click on an mp3, the dialog asks if you want to play it? you click 'yes' and it installs the codecs and away you go
[05:34] <flaccid> the question is can ubuntu perform without automatix
[05:34] <flaccid> if yes then never support it.
[05:34] <Seveas> flaccid, better than with automatix :)
[05:35] <nalioth> flaccid: we've not supported automatix since we discovered it was a system torpedo
[05:35] <Seveas> (aka since ever)
[05:35] <nalioth> flaccid: because arnieboy keeps brainwashing users into torpedoing their systems
[05:35] <Seveas> flaccid, why is windows stiull so succesful?
[05:36] <flaccid> why would 1 stupid user rock the ubuntu team?
[05:36] <flaccid> Seveas: thats not related in anyway. don't know why you would rebutt with that.
[05:36] <Gary> why are you all still talking about automatix?
[05:36] <Seveas> flaccid, both windows and automatix are crap that likes to break pcs
[05:36] <flaccid> Gary: i agree
[05:36] <Seveas> Gary, no idea :)
[05:37] <Gary> well stop it then, I demand it :p
[05:37] <flaccid> Seveas: yeah but why does windows need to be involved in this convo at all..
[05:37] <Gary> talk about the weather or something
[05:37] <Seveas> it's raining
[05:37] <Seveas> weather sucks
[05:37] <Seveas> as does automatix :P
[05:37] <Gary> oh dear
[05:37] <Gary> :p
[05:38] <Gary> meh
[05:38] <Seveas> do it :)
[05:38] <Gary> and stil they pick on me :'(
[05:39] <flaccid> what is the primary objective of ubuntu distro?
[05:39] <Seveas> world domination
[05:39] <Gary> lol
[05:39] <jrib> s/world/solar system
[05:39] <Seveas> and cookies
[05:39] <Gary> ummm I like cookies
[05:39] <mc44> the promotion of the colour brown
[05:39] <flaccid> um it would need a high level of AI to be able to dominate the world..
[05:39] <Seveas> brownies!
[05:39] <flaccid> :p
[05:39] <Seveas> flaccid, we have people, no need for AI
[05:39] <Gary> making poo backgrounds stylish?
[05:40] <flaccid> it might seem funny to you guys. but im actually serious.
[05:40] <Seveas> although Gary could use some AI, heas real intelligence is flawed
[05:40] <Gary> flawed I tells ye
[05:40] <flaccid> so
[05:40] <flaccid> there is no main objective
[05:40] <flaccid> maybe thats the problem with ubuntu
[05:40] <mc44> er.?
[05:40] <Gary> flaccid, to be as good as possible
[05:40] <mc44> bug #1
[05:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[05:40] <Seveas> mc44, george ain't coming
[05:40] <flaccid> where is the objectives documented?
[05:41] <flaccid> lol thats launchapd, not ubuntu
[05:41] <mc44> no, "Bug 1 in Ubuntu"
[05:41] <Seveas> it's an ubuntu bug :)
[05:41] <mc44> right there, in the words
[05:41] <flaccid> ok
[05:41] <Seveas> MICROSOFT MUST DIE
[05:41] <flaccid> so ubuntu is commercial
[05:41] <Seveas> or something like that
[05:41] <mc44> which is a silly objective, but still
[05:41] <flaccid> in an overall sense
[05:41] <mc44> canonical is commercial
[05:41] <flaccid> its completely stupid
[05:41] <mc44> ubuntu is linux
[05:41] <flaccid> it makes no sense
[05:41] <jrib> for human beings
[05:41] <mc44> neither do you
[05:42] <Gary> baaaaaaa moooo quack
[05:42] <Seveas> flaccid, so far, you made less sense than bug 1 :P
[05:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[05:42] <flaccid> well a project, needs goals, but you guys can't cite the primary goal
[05:42] <Gary> woo wonder what bug 69 was
[05:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 69 in baz "baz switch doesn't generate three-way diff on conflicts" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/69
[05:42] <TheSheep> gah, can we change it to 'for human beings and sheep?'
[05:42] <Seveas> TheSheep, hehe
[05:42] <mc44> flaccid: its managed to do quite well so far,
[05:42] <flaccid> bugs != objectives
[05:43] <mc44> there are lots of goals, as there are lots of contributors, and its free software
[05:43] <Seveas> yadda yadda
[05:43] <Seveas> most boring convo ever
[05:43] <flaccid> mc44: where can i read about these goals explicitly
[05:43] <Seveas> bbl
[05:43] <flaccid> boring
[05:43] <flaccid> lol
[05:43] <flaccid> the jokes on you!
[05:43] <mc44> oh, poor us
[05:44] <Gary> on me?  where?  do I have to get my clothes dry cleaned, again?
[05:44] <nalioth> flaccid: the goal is world domination (and then the solar system [an onward to the galaxy {and then the known universe}] )
[05:45] <TheSheep> to the space and beyound!
[05:45] <mc44> nalioth: hopefully far enough to discover new parentheses
[05:45] <flaccid> nalioth: where is the official doc on these goals that i can read
[05:45] <TheSheep> righto onto thet Alt
[05:45] <flaccid> will you press release that?
[05:45] <mc44> flaccid: there isn't one? whose goals? canonicals? upstream? kernel? community contributers? other distros?
[05:45] <flaccid> no wonder its all over the place, mc44
[05:45] <mc44> yes, no wonder. It'll never work
[05:46] <flaccid> it can work, but it needs management
[05:46] <flaccid> gary im not trolling
[05:46] <flaccid> im trying to help
[05:46] <Gary> yeah I need help
[05:46] <Hobbsee> flaccid: there's something to be said in actually googling for such things, and there's also something to be said in getting involved in the development of a project, before you say said development is crap.
[05:46] <Hobbsee> flaccid: all you're doing here is showing how much you dont understand.
[05:47] <Hobbsee> so, if you want to keep making a fool of yourself, go ahead...
[05:47] <mc44> Hobbsee: he understands *managment*. What do you expect :)
[05:47] <flaccid> Hobbsee: 1. i google everday for ubuntu - it wastes a lot of time that could of been negated. 2. im involved . 3. i never said dev was crap!
[05:47] <flaccid> Hobbsee: what don't i understand. please be specific this tiem..
[05:47] <flaccid> time..
[05:48] <mc44> you don't seem to appreciate that there isn't a central master plan somewhere for linux
[05:48] <Hobbsee> flaccid: for a start, to make a press release, who would it be representing?
[05:48] <flaccid> mc44: im not talking about linux. im talking about *ubuntu
[05:48] <flaccid> Hobbsee: ubuntu
[05:49] <Hobbsee> flaccid: as in, the people of ubuntu, the developers of ubuntu, canonical?
[05:49] <flaccid> Hobbsee: ubuntu as a whole.
[05:49] <Hobbsee> if it's the ubuntu community, i couldnt hope to make an announcement from them - there are too many people.
[05:49] <mc44> well ubuntu is linux for a start, hence its direction depends on all kinds of other people, nevermind its own internal differences
[05:49] <Hobbsee> and so i could not be sure that i was reflecting everyone's view
[05:49] <flaccid> Hobbsee: the ubuntu website seems to make announcements fine on their behalf so far..
[05:50] <flaccid> these are the caveats
[05:50] <mc44> it makes release announcements, and canonical announcments
[05:50] <Hobbsee> flaccid: sure, but that's ubuntu, not the ubuntu community
[05:50] <flaccid> im on your side..
[05:50] <flaccid> how will you achieve this world domination if you cannot play as a team??
[05:50] <flaccid> and thats not a trolling question.
[05:50] <Hobbsee> flaccid: we do.  you just do not appear to understand that there are teams, and subteams
[05:51] <Hobbsee> flaccid: and no one global leader overseeing everything
[05:51] <flaccid> Hobbsee: the newbie doesn't care about teams and subteams...
[05:51] <mc44> we should leverage our synergies, net-net, and think outside the envelope to empower sucess in our bottom line
[05:51] <Hobbsee> flaccid: the newbies also dont ask for the explicit goals of ubuntu, do they?
[05:51] <Hobbsee> flaccid: they just want it to work
[05:51] <flaccid> Hobbsee: m$ is scene to be one, not 4...
[05:51] <flaccid> and work, it doesn't..
[05:51] <Hobbsee> does here
[05:51] <flaccid> scene=seen
[05:51] <mc44> na, doesn't work at all. Good point
[05:52] <flaccid> i spend hours each day helping people
[05:52] <flaccid> i doesn't work like its intended...
[05:52] <flaccid> it thats at least 50% vendor problem
[05:52] <flaccid> not ubuntu
[05:52] <flaccid> but it doesn't change the status quo
[05:53] <flaccid> im critical, but on your side.
[05:58] <flaccid> no response. thats cool. the average user who is not IT doesn't care about teams and sub-teams, they look at the provider as the provider and thats it - politics should be transparent to customers.
[05:59] <Hobbsee> flaccid: the goals for each release are in the release announcements
[05:59] <Hobbsee> flaccid: you are showing, though, that you dont really understand the concept of open source.
[06:00] <flaccid> no problem. i'll go read them. normal people don't even know what release announcemenats are :)
[06:00] <flaccid> i understand the concept of open source
[06:00] <nixternal> they are the small link in the bottom left hand corner of the LiveCD installer :)
[06:00] <TheSheep> flaccid: we can't force knowledge into people's mind if they refuse to read it
[06:00] <mc44> normal people don't care about goals either?
[06:00] <flaccid> i am not understanding how world domination is possible with this regime...
[06:00] <Hobbsee> flaccid: yet you dont understand how there is no real parent company behind "ubuntu" as a whole
[06:00] <flaccid> expecting people to read things is a bad thing to begin with
[06:01] <mc44> no one expects them to read anything
[06:01] <Hobbsee> flaccid: you seem to be expecting there to be a big boss who says "this is the way it is", right down to every little detail
[06:01] <mc44> they should just get an OS that works
[06:01] <Hobbsee> but now, you appear to be trolling.
[06:01] <flaccid> to be honest, i don't care about the political/business structure, im just talking about the end user...
[06:01] <flaccid> man im not trolling alright
[06:01] <mc44> what about the end user?
[06:01] <PriceChild> !topic
[06:01] <ubotu> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
[06:01] <flaccid> the end user wants things to work
[06:01] <PriceChild> flaccid, is there anything else we can help you with?
[06:01] <nixternal> damn, walk away for a minute and get in when not even knowing the flavor of the cool aid
[06:02] <flaccid> fine
[06:02] <flaccid> lets ignore it.
[06:02] <flaccid> i tired the documentation team
[06:02] <flaccid> and i tried here
[06:02] <flaccid> i think nixternal rejected me on the doco thing
[06:02] <nixternal> the goals are called specifications by the way, and they are all on LP
[06:02] <nixternal> how did I reject you?
[06:03] <flaccid> apparently a topic based system which confuses users is suffice, thats cool i guess
[06:03] <PriceChild> flaccid, This channel is for operator/abuse questions. If you would like to discuss Ubuntu in general, feel free to head to #ubuntu-offtopic.
[06:03] <ubotu> hwilde called the ops in #ubuntu
[06:03] <flaccid> nixternal: are you on ubuntu-doc team
[06:03] <flaccid> PriceChild: ok
[06:03] <nixternal> yes
[06:03] <flaccid> let me just check
[06:07] <flaccid> ok rich, was you
[06:07] <nixternal> and is still me :)
[06:07] <flaccid> thats cool, we didn't see eye to eye
[06:07] <nixternal> don't know what you are talking about, but OK
[06:08] <flaccid> wiki is only good if 1 version of the same topic maintained
[06:08] <flaccid> problem is many version all over the place for doco
[06:08] <flaccid> no 'definitive guide'
[06:09] <nixternal> who reads the guides anyways? it is better to ask your help system "how do I do this or that?" than it is to browse a guide and hopefully run across what you are looking for
[06:09] <flaccid> ok
[06:09] <flaccid> yeah 1. the user needs to know how to get there 2. they hope there search is suffice
[06:10] <flaccid> there=their
[06:10] <flaccid> its more about the duplicity of the subjects than the availability of support...
[06:11] <flaccid> if i have a person used to windows that is not computer literate, sending them to current support channels is just not viable.
[06:12] <mc44> irc, forums, mailing lists, launchpad, wiki etc aren't viable?
[06:12] <ubotu> kitche called the ops in #ubuntu
[06:12] <flaccid> mc44: they are a lot of work, just to use their computer
[06:12] <raf256> what seems to be the problem? someone just banned me?
[06:12] <PriceChild> raf256, don't try it...
[06:12] <Hobbsee> that nick looks familiar.
[06:12] <raf256> try what?
[06:12] <Hobbsee> very familiar
[06:12] <flaccid> mc44: no normal user wants to do that. they don't even know what a forum, irc, mailing list, launchpad, wiki etc. are..
[06:13] <PriceChild> raf256, even if that image wasn't the first thing that came to mind... that was totally inappropriate
[06:13] <PriceChild> !offtopic | flaccid
[06:13] <ubotu> flaccid: #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, #ubuntu+1 supports the development version of Ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome!
[06:13] <elkbuntu> raf256, we do not care about any descriptor of that part of a horse
[06:13] <raf256> elkbuntu: something wrong in image of a chicken?
[06:13] <Seveaz> jeez, is flaccid still on it?
[06:15] <raf256> PriceChild: sheesh, on most other channels such small joke is rather wellcommed :/
[06:15] <Seveas> raf256, not in #ubuntu
[06:15] <Hobbsee> raf256: do you lack common sense?
[06:15] <nixternal> obviously
[06:15] <Hobbsee> !coc | raf256
[06:15] <ubotu> raf256: The Ubuntu Code of Conduct to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
[06:15] <PriceChild> #ubuntu is support and support only. You have been around some time and most definitely ought to know better.
[06:15] <Hobbsee> !guidelines | raf256
[06:15] <ubotu> raf256: The people in this channel are volunteers. Your attitude will determine how fast you are helped. See also http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
[06:19] <raf256> Well ok, I suppose not all channels can have relaxed ops that check first
[06:20] <PriceChild> raf256, regardless of the fact that it was a "harmless" photo... it was still not appropriate.
[06:20] <nixternal> lol
[06:21] <raf256> well #perl and #suse failed as well that test.  #bash won :) well it do have over 300 ops btw
[06:21] <PriceChild> What is appropriate in #perl, #suse or any others... has no relevance to our decision.
[06:22] <nixternal> who cares...we told you the rules, it isn't accepted, especially the title...if you don't have any more to add, then thanks for joining us and please have a nice day
[06:22] <raf256>  <sPiN> pardon me for confusing you for a sick monkey  ok I guess suse won as well.  PriceChild so is any op going to correct beeing a bit too hasty perhaps :) ?
[06:22] <raf256> nixternal: ok I will read them
[06:23] <nixternal> and no it won't be fixed..I could care less if the image was of beautiful sunset...you came, posted a link with an unacceptable name that has nothing to do with ubuntu support
[06:31] <raf256> nixternal: the name doesnt mean what you think it do
[06:31] <Hobbsee> your point?
[06:32] <raf256> Hobbsee: neither picture or its name is bad, which is obvious if you dont act hasty but give any chance and check first
[06:33] <mc44> of course the name is bad, otherwise it wouldn't have been "funny" to post it
[06:33] <nixternal> why should I have to check it? and if I did check it and it was goatse or what not, then I would be even more pissed...
[06:33] <nixternal> simple as that, no need to argue or tell us to relax
[06:33] <raf256> nixternal: if you find that image in any way offensive I will ask staff to kline me for life
[06:34] <nixternal> raf256: I am not looking at it for one, so I can't find it offensive, but I did find the link name offensive...enough said!
[06:34] <Hobbsee> raf256: if you havent figured this out yet, toilet jokes and what you put into #ubuntu may be acceptable for around your small group of friends, but arent acceptable in large public channels.
[06:34] <Hobbsee> raf256: however, if you're going to act like this, then go ahead and ask the staff to kline you for life...
[06:34] <raf256> Hobbsee: then why this exact link and text is a factoid on a 400 nicks channel ##c++ ?
[06:34] <nixternal> plus posting a link that has nothing to do with an ubuntu problem that you may need help with isn't acceptable either
[06:34] <nixternal> raf256: because they are childish!
[06:35] <raf256> nixternal: shure
[06:35] <Hobbsee> raf256: especially support channels.
[06:35] <PriceChild> raf256, i repeat... what is acceptable elsewhere has no relevance here.
[06:35] <nixternal> who cares...we told you our stance
[06:35] <Hobbsee> raf256: because they seem to have a mental age of about 10, like you seem to.
[06:35] <nixternal> Hobbsee: you are giving him to much
[06:35] <PriceChild> raf256, the ban will be lifted in due time. Is there anything else we can help you with?
[06:35] <Hobbsee> raf256: the rest of the world does not have a mental age of 10, thank goodness.
[06:35] <elkbuntu> raf256, drop this discussion please. you can choose to leave on your own accord, or forcibly so. the decision is yours
[06:38] <raf256> shure, other ops at least appologized, too bad ubuntu is less friendly then it advertises. Just a thing to think about. God day then :)
[06:38] <Myrtti> what a weird puppy
[06:38] <elkbuntu> Myrtti, recidivist troll
[06:39] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: i thought he promised to be a sane human being.
[06:39] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, his definition of sane varies from ours
[06:39] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: it must do
[06:41] <jussi01> hmmm, looks like you guys have been having fun...
[06:42] <nixternal> I have banned that guy from more places than one could ever imagine
[06:42] <jussi01> btw, now that it seems safe to interupt, what do the 4 little coloured dots in the new konversation mean?
[06:43] <Hobbsee> nixternal: which one?
[06:43] <nixternal> raf256
[06:43] <Hobbsee> ah, right
[06:44] <jussi01> and why is Hobbsee special...?? :P
[06:45] <PriceChild> jussi01, don't argue with that pointy stick
[06:45] <Hobbsee> heh
[06:45] <Hobbsee> because i removed flaccid, and am unconvinced over having to do it again
[06:45] <jussi01> PriceChild: im not...
[06:45] <jussi01> no, i mean Hobbseehas blue dots, and no one else has...
[06:46] <Hobbsee> jussi01: because i'm +o
[06:46] <jussi01> ahhh
[06:46] <nixternal> lol
[06:46] <nixternal> I was looking for blue dots!
[06:46] <jussi01> lol
[06:46] <Hobbsee> we could just...shove him into ##unavailable....
[06:48] <jussi01> ok,1 more thing, where can i find a list of all the +o,+e etcs?
[06:48] <jussi01> and what they mean...
[06:48] <Hobbsee> help, what's this, and click on the side panel with the dots
[06:50] <jussi01> Hobbsee: yeah, but I want to know all the general IRC +o +e things...
[06:50] <Hobbsee> jussi01: you can change the theme in the settings
[06:51] <jussi01> Hobbsee: thats cool, its good like it is :)
[07:18] <jrib> PriceChild: too fast :)
[07:18] <PriceChild> ;)
[07:56] <Myrtti> errrr
[08:03] <jrib> nixternal: think it's safe to -r?
[08:04] <nixternal> probably so
[08:05] <nalioth> all klined
[08:06] <jrib> "14:05 <      Flameviper> I heard from the source that the Freenode attackers are raiding this channel"
[08:08] <nixternal> which channel is that?
[08:08] <nixternal> I just got a similar message?
[08:09] <jrib> he was in #ubuntu I think
[08:10] <nalioth> flameviper is a known troll.
[08:11] <jenda> lol
[08:11] <nalioth> please feel free to /ignore
[08:11] <jenda> indeed he is
[08:12] <jrib> heh, can someone -i #ubuntu-unregged, my connection dropped
[08:14] <jrib> never mind
[10:38] <ubotu> aneb called the ops in #ubuntu
[10:43] <dgeorge> hi im here for a test
[10:44] <dgeorge> I just followed the FixDDCExploit
[10:48] <ompaul> guess that is fixed let me let you back into #ubuntu
[10:49] <ompaul> you may rejoin #ubuntu
[10:49] <ompaul> dgeorge, ^^
[10:50] <ompaul> dgeorge, you are free to join #ubuntu
[11:39] <ubotu> Xoris called the ops in #ubuntu
[12:01] <PriceChild> Hi Xoris, can I help you?
[12:02] <Xoris> PriceChild no thanks, i just reconnected after getting disconnected
[12:02] <Xoris> just seeing how the channel works
[12:02] <PriceChild> Any particular reason?
[12:03] <Xoris> PriceChild, well no, just curious. if you prefer that i leave, no problem
[12:04] <PriceChild> Well of course there's a reason! :) Noone just randomly turns up in our ops channel.
[12:05] <Xoris> PriceChild, i saw ops were there on whois, that's all