[01:23] <Fujitsu> 4
[01:23] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[05:28] <viperio> hi
[05:29] <viperio> any administrator for the LoCo Webpages here ?
[08:57] <kraut> moin
[01:50] <stgraber> argh, I won't be at this meeting either, gotta go install some computers ... :(
[01:52] <kraut> !help
[01:52] <ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
[01:52] <kraut> how was this function called, to see the dates in another timezone?
[01:52] <kraut> !time cet
[01:52] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about time cet - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[01:52] <kraut> .time cet
[01:53] <kraut> @time cet
[01:53] <ubotu> Current time in CET: August 08 2007, 13:53:06 - Current meeting: Edubuntu
[01:53] <kraut> @time Berlin
[01:53] <ubotu> Current time in Europe/Berlin: August 08 2007, 13:53:17 - Current meeting: Edubuntu
[01:53] <kraut> oO
[02:04] <RichEd> and ogra kicks off with TECH
[02:04] <ogra> yeah
[02:04] <ogra> i'll try to keep it as shoprt as possible
[02:04] <ogra> mostly we had ltsp code merges last week ...
[02:04] <ogra> new ldm is in since 5.0.22
[02:05] <ogra> i'm preparing tribe4 since monday ....
[02:05] <ogra> sadly there is a bug (apparently in apt) that prevents ltsp clients from building on the server CD
[02:06] <ogra> beyond that the liveCD is heavily oversized ... sadly digging for the server CD breakage didnt leave me time to investigate that yet
[02:06] <ogra> so i'm not sure we'll make tribe4 at all
[02:06] <ogra> thats it ...
[02:06] <RichEd> ogra: what are the consequencesof missing tribe 4 ?
[02:06] <ogra> less testing
[02:07] <ogra> less feedback
[02:07] <ogra> i'll try to make it happen, but currently its not clear what the exact bug is
[02:07] <highvoltage> so if the tribe 4 deadline is missed, there won't be a tribe 4 for edubuntu?
[02:07] <ogra> without knowing we cant fix ...
[02:07] <RichEd> and will you be able to get it right for tribe 5 ?
[02:07] <ogra> sure
[02:07] <RichEd> okay ... good :)
[02:07] <ogra> but i wouldnt like o go without tribe4
[02:08] <ogra> deadline is tomorrow ...
[02:08] <pips1> what's the status with the moodle packaging ?
[02:08] <ogra> so there is still hope :)
[02:08] <ogra> pips1, moquist knows about freeze dates and works on it
[02:08] <pips1> ic
[02:08] <ogra> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6347
[02:09] <ogra> hrm
[02:09] <ogra> revu seems down
[02:09] <Riddell> it is
[02:09] <ogra> on a side note i discovered this horrible doc: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/TroubleShooting
[02:09] <highvoltage> ogra: I think it's down along with the other community sites (like the loco teams)
[02:10] <ogra> which shocked me quite a bit ...
[02:10] <ogra> especially:
[02:10] <ogra> We've found some bugs in a number of components in the Ubuntu LTSP kit, hopefully some of the developers will take a look at this page at some point and possibly integrate some of our fixes back into the mix. Until then however, below we detail how we got around some of the more interesting issues.
[02:11] <ogra> most of these "helpful" things are just using the defaults we use anyway ...
[02:11] <ogra> others like the sound hack are just utterly wrong
[02:11] <highvoltage> how did that get into help.ubuntu.com? and who wrote it?
[02:11] <ogra> it has a history
[02:12] <ogra> what worries me most about it is that it exists since 2006
[02:12] <ogra> created under the assumption "some developer will see it"
[02:12] <cliebow_> hmmm
[02:13] <highvoltage> heh, so they basically filed 'bugs' on help.ubuntu.com. how bizzarre.
[02:13] <ogra> which i didnt until someone asked me about it in support this week
[02:13] <ogra> a) they filed bugs in the wiki
[02:13] <ogra> b) they gave wronmg solutions
[02:13] <ogra> (which is not remarkable since no dev ever saw that page :P)
[02:15] <ogra> i'm not sure what top do with that page now ... i dont want to wipe others work ... in bug reports i would have responded to tehm properly ...
[02:15] <cliebow_> perhaps a disclaimer??
[02:15] <ogra> yeah
[02:16] <highvoltage> ogra: well, it's clearly not of much use, shouldn't it just be deleted with a reference to the correct documentation?
[02:16] <ogra> hmm, probably
[02:17] <ogra> but i'd also like to prevent such stuff from happening somehow
[02:18] <highvoltage> I thought there was some kind of process for moving pages to help.ubuntu.com from the wiki
[02:18] <ogra> we need to make launchpad more prominent in the community somehow
[02:19] <highvoltage> ogra: for support?
[02:19] <highvoltage> oh, and for bugs, of course
[02:19] <ogra> yeah
[02:19] <ogra> bugs mostly
[02:20] <ogra> all ltsp devs are autosubscribed to the ltsp bugs now ... so proper bugfiling gains better answers indeed
[02:20] <RichEd> (which sites) it is a bit confusing for some people
[02:20] <cliebow_> be nice to make an obvious index
[02:21] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+filebug is the general ltsp bug url ...
[02:22] <pips1> yes, and the wikis are open... for wikipedia, I think there is always at least one person who "claims" a topic, but in technical documentation, people don't feel attached / "own" an article. at best, the write it down and forget it... :-/
[02:22] <ogra> well, i'm subscribed to UbuntuLTSP on help.ubunru.com
[02:23] <ogra> but that page wasnt added to the index ever
[02:23] <pips1> wiki = low barrier for entry, but no real quality control either..
[02:23] <ogra> (index being https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP in that case)
[02:24] <pips1> i.e. you can't guarantee that someone applies the proper tag (UbuntuLTSP)
[02:24] <ogra> pips1, well, h.u.c is just a wiki as well
[02:25] <pips1> doesn't h.u.c have locked pages... erm, no, different altogehter... i thought it was static html pages created from versioned docbook files?
[02:25] <ogra> might be, but apparently every ubuntu member can edit it ...
[02:26] <ogra> it == content
[02:26] <pips1> ah
[02:26] <ogra> for me it doesnt behave differently than the wiki while using it
[02:27] <highvoltage> that's interesting, I thought only docteam members could. I just logged in to doc.ubuntu.com for the first time and noticed I can edit. that's quite cool.
[02:27] <pips1> right, you are talking about the 'community' part of help.ubuntu.com...
[02:27] <pips1> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/
[02:27] <ogra> rigth
[02:27] <pips1> oh, they must have changed that?
[02:28] <pips1> I didn't know that any person can edit h.u.c/community ... I only thought that only doc.u.c is editable by anyone
[02:29] <ogra> i wonder what makes it different to wiki.u.c then ...
[02:29] <ogra> its the same but different url ... so we have two places for docs
[02:30] <pips1> doc.u.c is supposed to be the drafting place for documentation and help.u.c the "approved" documentation...?!
[02:30] <ogra> well
[02:30] <ogra> h.u.c/comminty == second wiki.u.c
[02:31] <ogra> *community
[02:31] <ogra> thats just scattering info over various places ...
[02:31] <ogra> anyway, lets not hold up the meeting with that now
[02:32] <ogra> tech done (in case nobody has questions)
[02:32] <RichEd> artwork ... any progress with our new volunteer ?
[02:32] <ogra> she seems not here
[02:33] <RichEd> she's based in the US ... so I think the other meeting time is better for her
[02:33] <RichEd> we'll check next week ...
[02:34] <RichEd> documentation ?
[02:35] <RichEd> anyone ?
[02:36] <highvoltage> nothing I can think of
[02:36] <RichEd> okay ... pips1 any web site / community items for today ?
[02:37] <RichEd> from my side, on a bizarre community related note ... Bill Hilf (head of Open Source at MSFT) has mailed me after meeting (bumping into) Mark Shuttleworth at OSCON in Portland.
[02:38] <pips1> RichEd nothing except for the update i told you about already
[02:38] <RichEd> he wants a call & a chat to see how we can collaborate ...
[02:38] <cliebow_> MSFT:that what i think it might be?
[02:39] <pips1> what is the FT part?
[02:39] <RichEd> indeed mr cliebow_
[02:39] <cliebow_> 8~)
[02:39] <RichEd> that's the stock exchange abbreviation ...
[02:39] <pips1> oh ic
[02:39] <RichEd> so I use it as better than quoting the full name ... and not as emotiona as all the M$ approach
[02:40] <RichEd> *emotional
[02:40] <RichEd> ---
[02:40] <RichEd> On a final note from my side:
[02:40] <RichEd> to fill the others in on the discussion last week:
[02:40] <RichEd> We're more or less agreed to separate the original 2 hour meeting as per the mail lists:
[02:40] <RichEd> into edubuntu-devel and edubuntu-users ...
[02:40] <RichEd> LaserJock has been making good suggestions ...
[02:41] <RichEd> we're still haggling about
[02:41] <RichEd> * how long each meeting needs to be
[02:41] <RichEd> * the exact agenda points
[02:41] <highvoltage> RichEd: I've been wondering, have you ever considered an education meeting too?
[02:41] <RichEd> highvoltage: the users will be education
[02:41] <highvoltage> ok
[02:41] <RichEd> it will have "using Edubuntu" topics
[02:41] <RichEd> as well as "teaching / content" etc
[02:42] <RichEd> will try to get it up over the weekend
[02:42] <RichEd> (for the new agenda ... with items to prompt discussion)
[02:42] <RichEd> we'll try out the new structure next week ... i'll separate the meetings on the fridge schedule along with new agenda page
[02:42] <RichEd> we'll also announce each meeting each week, and call for discussion topics
[02:42] <RichEd> especially the user meeting
[02:42] <RichEd> LaserJock suggests we have a weekly problems and suggestions slot in the user-meeting to get feedback and direction
[02:42] <RichEd> and get the user community to feel that we care about their issues, and listen
[02:43] <RichEd> and also encourage schools / teachers to create shared projects ...
[02:43] <RichEd> and help with our communit needs
[02:43] <RichEd> *community
[02:43] <RichEd> ^ comments
[02:43] <RichEd> ^ suggestions ?
[02:44] <cliebow_> moodle support is a big step that way
[02:44] <RichEd> I'm happy to put this into a mail and send to the two mailing lists
[02:44] <RichEd> ---
[02:44] <RichEd> that's all from me for today
[02:45] <RichEd> anyone else with topics ? or agenda items ?
[02:45] <RichEd> if not we can wrap and allow ogra to get back to his tribe issue
[02:45] <highvoltage> nope, except that if anyone needs me for anything, please send me a message, and I'll try to help.
[02:45] <ogra> help testing ! (in case i ever get the iso working proper)
[02:45] <pips1> RichEd: nothing for the meeting, note, I'll send you that email about the update in a sec
[02:45] <highvoltage> ogra: righto
[02:46] <highvoltage> ogra: if an iso works, please ping me, I have good bandwidth now and can sync quite easily
[02:46] <RichEd> ogra: I'm busy setting up that test notebook next to me now ... so I can help
[02:46] <ogra> cool !
[02:46] <RichEd> old mecer
[02:47] <ogra> i'll send a ping to #edubuntu if i have something working
[02:47] <RichEd> --- going once then
[02:47] <RichEd> --- going twice then
[02:47] <highvoltage> *BONG*
[02:47] <RichEd> thrice ...
[02:47] <RichEd> thanks all
[02:47] <ogra> RichEd, i bet gutsy would solve the screen issues ... new intel drivers all over there