[12:17] <mhb> evening folks
[12:18] <Riddell> manchicken_: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/PlanetUbuntu
[12:19] <manchicken_> Riddell: Yeah, I figured it out.  I was missing the obvious :)
[01:16] <mhb> fdoving: so I take it you played with kio-apt today?
[01:28] <nixternal> Riddell: you gave me an idea with adding the stuff you did to the tribe 4 page. Would it be OK to add a "special thanks" section at the bottom to show off the people who work hard on bringing the Kubuntu releases to them?
[01:28] <Riddell> sounds great
[01:28] <nixternal> groovy...I seen you give mention in there, so I figured it would be good to show off our stars as well :)
[01:38] <mhb> nixternal: arent we going to thank ourselves that way? :o)
[01:41] <Riddell> a shame, but maybe it means I can go back to slagging off the guy :)
[01:43] <mhb> I thought ubuntu is using debian unstable packages
[01:43] <nixternal> we are
[01:43] <mhb> not experimental
[01:44] <nixternal> ol' man Warren is somewhat clueless...a very cool guy though
[01:45] <nixternal> last I checked though, they didn't have developers really...I mean they literally took our packages, added some of their own, changed the artwork and did a :%s/Kubuntu/Mepis on everything
[01:51] <Riddell> and added w32codecs, that brings in most of their users I think
[01:52] <Riddell> mhb: this is the same person who thought it was ok for him not to ship source packages of GPL code
[01:53] <pgquiles_> Riddell: will this (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/125325) be fixed in gutsy?
[01:54] <Riddell> bug 125325
[01:54] <Riddell> no bug not?
[01:54] <Riddell> no bug bot?
[01:56] <mhb> pgquiles_: nixternal might know, he's the man whom the bug is assigned to
[01:58] <pgquiles_> mhb: true, I hadn't read the nickname for the assignee
[01:58] <pgquiles_> nixternal: :-)
[01:59] <Riddell> it's part of our policy to have a blank desktop on startup
[01:59] <Riddell> better documentation in the release notes of course is welcome
[01:59] <Riddell> or wherever else
[01:59] <Riddell> in my opinion, better documentation in the winfoss app is important
[02:01] <mhb> Riddell: one small offtopic question: is the .org domain forced on Kubuntu by Canonical because it is a mainly community project?
[02:02] <mhb> community project = for the community by (mostly) you & the community :o)
[02:02] <pgquiles_> when I was on the plane back from Glasgow I gave a KUbuntu CD to an old woman (about 65) who was sitting next to me
[02:02] <pgquiles_> she was fed up with viruses
[02:02] <pgquiles_> so I assumed a KUbuntu CD would be useful to her
[02:03] <Riddell> mhb: because it's a non commercial project (ubuntu only uses .com because someone else has the .org, kubuntu.com does work though)
[02:03] <pgquiles_> but later I realized she would be scared when she boots her PC with KUbuntu and wonder what the hell happenned to her files
[02:03] <Riddell> pgquiles_: the U in Kubuntu is lower case
[02:03] <pgquiles_> the blank desktop is scary for those people
[02:03] <Riddell> pgquiles_: I'd suspect that people who know how to boot off a CD, know it shouldn't touch their files
[02:04] <pgquiles_> Riddell: I think you are wrong. Pretty much every computer boots from CD if you put a CD on the tray and most people do not even know what a live CD is or how it works.
[02:05] <pgquiles_> I checked my hypothesis with my little sister and my girlfriend, btw
[02:06] <Riddell> their computers boot CDs by default?
[02:06] <pgquiles_> yes
[02:07] <pgquiles_> but even if their computers do not boot CDs by default, when people boot from CD and see a fully-useable operating system, they think Windows was automagically installed (meaning hard disk was formatted)
[02:08] <mhb> Riddell: I would say that from a marketing point of view, "kubuntu.com" sounds better than "kubuntu.org"
[02:08] <nixternal> OK, I seen something about a boog before I left to rejoin the new server
[02:08] <pgquiles_> that was actually my girlfriend's first reaction: "Kubuntu [lower case :-)]  installed without asking questions, what happenned to my stuff!?"
[02:08] <nixternal> and I lost all of my Bitlbee accounts...oops
[02:08] <mhb> Riddell: and I'd reckon that is the (current) reason for Ubuntu having a .com
[02:09] <Riddell> mhb: I diagree, and it's certainly not the reason for ubuntu using .com
[02:09] <Riddell> nixternal: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/125325
[02:10] <nixternal> ahh, what about that now?
[02:10] <Riddell> pgquiles_: if we had a decent "about kubuntu" document, I suspect I'd be open to having a link to it on the desktop
[02:10] <nixternal> Riddell: we used to do that with the Release Notes
[02:10] <Riddell> of course sabdfl might overrule :)
[02:10] <Riddell> we did?
[02:10] <mhb> Riddell: what makes you disagree?
[02:11] <nixternal> ya, we stopped it after Dapper iirc
[02:11] <nixternal> at least I thought we did...at least an icon on the desktop for a Readme/Release Notes
[02:11] <Riddell> mhb: large swathes of internal discussion on no-name-yet's wiki about whether they should still go with ubuntu even if the .org was unavailable
[02:11] <nixternal> there is the link in the Ubiquity
[02:11] <nixternal> plus, those release notes do not get written until the very end
[02:12] <nixternal> a couple of days prior to string freeze
[02:12] <Riddell> release notes aren't really what pgquiles_ is after, he wants a quick introdiction to what this kubuntu thing is doing
[02:12] <pgquiles_> exactly
[02:12] <mhb> Riddell: sure, you're probably right about that, but what makes you think a .org is as good-sounding as a .com for the corporate world?
[02:12] <nixternal> ahh, so he wants something a little more than documentation then
[02:12] <pgquiles_> something that calms down a newbie which no longer sees her files on the desktop
[02:13] <Riddell> but About Kubuntu has remained unloved since it was written
[02:13] <nixternal> or we can create a document that does such and create an icon on the live cd desktop
[02:13] <nixternal> I could whip that up pretty much tonight possibly
[02:13] <pgquiles_> actually I think the same kind document should be added to Ubuntu and Xubuntu
[02:13] <Riddell> mhb: it's not, but non commercial contributors will always be more important to us
[02:14] <nixternal> good luck there, well Xubuntu would be game, but Ubuntu more than likely wouldn't...trying to get anything new doc wise is one heck of a fight
[02:14] <nixternal> and then getting it to open up on the LiveCD...might need an army for that one :)
[02:15] <mhb> Riddell: sure, but they are important in the Ubuntu world as well and I heard nobody about the .com :o)
[02:15] <nixternal> but I am definitely game to writing a simple doc that would do this that we could put up on a LiveCD
[02:15] <nixternal> Riddell: could we just do something for the LiveCD only instead of doing documentation? that way there we don't have to keep packaging the docs for such a task
[02:15] <Riddell> nixternal: it should be a re-write of About Kubuntu in my opinion
[02:16] <mhb> Riddell: my problem is (and don't take me wrong), that Kubuntu is not generating as much profit as Canonical would like and therefore C. is not expanding the Kubuntu division
[02:16] <Riddell> nixternal: it should be proper docs, otherwise we won't get translations
[02:16] <nixternal> Riddell: I could re-work About Kubuntu for this no problem
[02:16] <nixternal> ok
[02:16] <nixternal> how about getting an icon on the desktop that would link to help:/kubuntu/about-kubuntu?
[02:17] <nixternal> for the LiveCD that is?
[02:17] <Riddell> nixternal: but have two versions, normal and about-kubuntu-live which has a paragraph at the start saying "this is a live CD"
[02:17] <Riddell> that's what we'd link to from the desktop
[02:17] <nixternal> OK
[02:17] <nixternal> I will start that here in a bit then
[02:17] <nixternal> I will get that done..do some doc updates, and have a package ready for you this weekend if that is cool?
[02:18] <pgquiles_> nixternal: great, thank you
[02:18] <Riddell> mhb: what makes you think Ubuntu is generating as much profit as Canonical would like? :)
[02:18] <mhb> Riddell: it also does not
[02:18] <nixternal> hehe, they aren't just yet..that is why sabdfl is out pimping his arse off right now
[02:18] <mhb> Riddell: but I know that Kubuntu is generating way less than Ubuntu
[02:19] <mhb> Riddell: and I'd like to change that, because I want Canonical to stay interested in KDE
[02:19] <Riddell> depends on how you add it up, most people with money are interested in server and mobile
[02:20] <Riddell> we have rollouts in georgia, canary islands, french parliament, I don't know of equivalent ubuntu rollouts although I guess there are some
[02:20] <nixternal> booyah!
[02:20] <nixternal> you beat me to it
[02:20] <nixternal> Riddell: haha, and remember them trying to say Ubuntu in the Fridge article? :)
[02:20] <Tm_T> you are beaten
[02:21] <Riddell> I even get recognised in the street by people saying "you do kubuntu, we use that", I've never had that for ubuntu :)
[02:21] <nixternal> I am always beaten
[02:21] <mhb> Riddell: all true, yet still, there is one great Kubuntu dev who has to do all the stuff from release management to packaging to coding
[02:21] <Tm_T> Riddell <3
[02:21] <nixternal> I get recognized in the streets too, but then I have to run in order to avoid getting beat up :)
[02:22] <mhb> Riddell: and Ubuntu has many of (not as) great devs in many areas, so there's several folks who do release management, some who do feature coding, some do technical board...
[02:22] <mhb> (they're great guys, I was just kidding :o)
[02:22] <Riddell> :)
[02:24] <Riddell> they do put more resources into Ubuntu Gnome of course, but they don't have the money to put the same resources into two desktops so they picked one and had pretty good reasons to do so
[02:24] <nixternal> mhb: hahaha, "not as" that was good! plus we all get paid to work on Kubuntu don't we? Or have I been waiting for the check Riddell sent me to finally get here? I was wondering why I haven't gotten it in the past year. I was starting to think he paid someone to swim it to Chicago :)
[02:24] <Riddell> actually mhb does get paid to work on Kubuntu :)
[02:24] <nixternal> oh wait, I got a cookie the other day, so that makes me a paid dev right? :D
[02:24] <Tm_T> nixternal: yes
[02:25] <Tm_T> I'm also paid developer, by social service
[02:25] <nixternal> haha, I am going to use that in my KDE 4 talk on Saturday
[02:25] <Riddell> as does tonio and in theory imbrandon.  I don't know of any ubuntu equivalents to them
[02:25] <nixternal> I will have my name up there, and then "Paid Kubuntu Developer"...then at the end, I will show my payment..a Kubuntu cookie!
[02:26] <Tm_T> nixternal: (:
[02:26] <Riddell> nixternal: there will be lots of free cookies at UDS I'm sure
[02:26] <mhb> I am aware that we are a pretty good distro and I am also aware that Ubuntu had to pick one ... but if we (the community) manage to sell some more support for Kubuntu, Canonical would invest more into Kubuntu
[02:26] <nixternal> mmm cookies
[02:28] <nixternal>    pretty good? heck we are the bestest..but I get your point, and it makes sense to me as well...with that, did the French Parliament and others get a support contract at all with Canonical on those rollouts?
[02:28] <Riddell> dunno, would need to ask tonio
[02:28] <nixternal> and truthfully, most of the Ubuntu support is for the server isn't it? and not so much a GUI'fied release?
[02:29] <Riddell> yes, almost all except google
[02:29] <nixternal> OK, I didn't want to call out names :)
[02:29] <nixternal> ya, Google has a large contract, but that is a mixture of both Ubuntu and Kubuntu
[02:29] <nixternal> the Chicago Engineering office is all Kubuntu
[02:29] <Riddell> it is yes
[02:29] <Riddell> cool!
[02:30] <Riddell> how do you know?
[02:30] <nixternal> they are a small group
[02:30] <nixternal> Ben Sussman, the King of SVN
[02:30] <nixternal> we hang out with them guys all of the time
[02:30] <Tm_T> so that's how they got forced to use Kubuntu...
[02:30] <nixternal> Ben and his gang show up to all of our events
[02:30] <nixternal> well, truthfully, if you ever check out a LUG event in Chicago, you will see Foresight and Xubuntu
[02:31] <nixternal> Xubuntu is probably on a majority of the machines
[02:31] <Tm_T> "Chicago Kubuntu mafia strikes again, use it, or die without it..."
[02:31] <nixternal> you know it...there are a few of us holding down the KDE scene
[02:31] <nixternal> we had power behind manchicken|away, but he decided to head south a couple of hours
[02:31] <mhb> by the way, did anyone notice my very silly proposal about the quicklauncher icons?
[02:32] <mhb> actually it was a bugreport, because I wanted to get it INVALID once and for all :o)
[02:33] <Riddell> mhb: yes, briefly, I've not read all the way through it yet
[02:33] <Riddell> I'm not convinced its a real problem
[02:33] <Riddell> although it's something I hadn't considered at all until I read the bug report
[02:35] <mhb> Riddell: I'm not convinced either, but I think a "tray icon" concept is quite complicated for a newcomer to computers and we shouldn't make it harder for them
[02:39] <mhb> Riddell: it's not really a grave problem, and if I'll see that I'm the only one seeing a potential bug here, I'll be happy to invalid it
[02:39] <Riddell> I'll read it properly when I get a moment
[02:39] <Riddell> but not tonight, I'm done testing CDs and off to bed
[02:39] <mhb> goodnight
[02:39] <Riddell> remember: you too can test tribe 4 candidate CDs! https://iso.qa.stgraber.org
[02:39] <mhb> I'll check my FUP quota
[02:40] <mhb> (if I download too much, they cut my bandwidth)
[02:40] <Riddell> rsync is your friend
[02:41] <mhb> indeed, but won't the iso structure change completely after multiple changes (like tribe3 -> tribe4) ?
[02:42] <Riddell> guess so
[02:46] <mhb> thank you.
[02:46] <mhb> Riddell: sleep well!
[06:27] <nixternal> how do we have OO.o 2.3 when OO.o's website doesn't even list it?
[06:31] <nixternal> ahh, nevermind, it is an SVN snapshot of 2.3
[06:33] <ScottK> At least the splash screen is different so I could tell (since all I got to see).
[06:38] <nixternal> ScottK: haha, and JR put that in the notes for me to work out. I think how I worded the OO.o section is good, and I am including a screenshot of that splash screen in all of its glory :)
[06:41] <ScottK> nixternal: OOO isn't broken for Ubuntu anymore, just us.
[06:41] <nixternal> oh really?
[06:41] <nixternal> OK, I will fix that then
[06:41] <nixternal> lovely
[06:42] <nixternal> how is it just broken for us now?
[06:42] <ScottK> That's a really good question.
[06:42] <ScottK> Everyone was SURE adding openoffice-gtk to Kubuntu would fix it, but it appears no one actually checked.
[06:43] <ScottK> When I "gently mentioned it" on #ubuntu-devel, calc was quite suprised.
[06:43] <ScottK> And why was everyone sure ...
[06:43] <ScottK> Wait for it ...
[06:43] <nixternal> heh
[06:44] <ScottK> They'd read on some forums somewhere that adding it fixed it for other KDE users.
[06:48] <robotgeek> lol
[06:59] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe4/Kubuntu?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=edukde.png
[06:59] <nixternal> sodium looks like a crack dealers treasure chest
[06:59] <robotgeek> nixternal: linux, on crack?
[06:59] <nixternal> haha
[07:03] <robotgeek> hah, there is a get-pot.sh file in the kubuntu docs folder
[07:03] <nixternal> hehe
[07:03] <nixternal> you gotta love that
[07:05] <robotgeek> damn, i knew i should have wiki'd the aspell foo i was using 6 months ago. back to work (sigh)
[07:26] <robotgeek> nixternal: i was just looking through the built documentation, and there seems to be no way to get back to the main page/index without hitting the back button?
[07:31] <nixternal> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/GutsyGibbon/Tribe4/Kubuntu
[07:31] <nixternal> Kubuntu release notes for Tribe 4 ready for review!
[07:31] <nixternal> robotgeek: ya, I know that...I don't know how to fix that w/o editing the KDE xsl
[07:36] <robotgeek> nixternal: okay, hopefully in about 10 minutes, i will remember my password to commit :)
[07:36] <nixternal> hehe
[07:45] <robotgeek> nixternal: are we following 80 columns width? (my vim settings have foobared!)
[07:45] <nixternal> I always do, it makes it easier to follow...I use Kate pretty much for documentation now
[07:48] <robotgeek> nixternal: how do i get kate to wrap to 80 columns?
[07:49] <nixternal> let me check
[07:49] <nixternal> under settings, goto editing
[07:49] <nixternal> enable static word wrap, set it to 80
[07:49] <robotgeek> okay, i get a bar. which is good.
[07:49] <nixternal> I add the marker as well. that way I know where abouts I am all of the time
[07:50] <robotgeek> it doesn't autoformat?
[07:50] <robotgeek> okay, it was just a small para, so i did it manually!
[07:50] <robotgeek> thanks anyways
[07:51] <nixternal> I thought it did
[07:51] <nixternal> guess not
[07:51] <robotgeek> i had already typed it up, i can't give up vim's nice xml thingies
[07:51] <robotgeek> it adds the closing tag automatically
[07:52] <nixternal> ya, if I am doing small edits, I use Vim or Emacs
[07:52] <nixternal> whatever my fingers feel like typing really
[07:53] <robotgeek> okay, figured out how to do it in vim :)
[07:55] <robotgeek> nixternal: one more thing, how do i link to digikam documentation. just khelp:/digikam?
[07:55] <robotgeek> i think digikam docs are not installed by default too
[07:56] <nixternal> <ulink type="help" url="help:/digikam">foo</ulink>
[07:56] <ScottK> IIRC they are in universe
[07:57] <robotgeek> thanks guys
[07:58] <nixternal> wow, they are..that is silly
[07:58] <ScottK> Pretty safe bet they aren't installed by default.
[07:59] <nixternal> yup
[07:59] <nixternal> robotgeek: so you might want to tell them they need to install the digiKam documentation
[07:59] <robotgeek> yup, adding that in
[07:59] <nixternal> I am checking now though to see if they are installed by default
[08:01] <robotgeek> nope, universe
[08:01] <nixternal> ya, why I even wanted to check after I just said that is beyond me
[08:01] <nixternal> long day I guess
[08:06] <robotgeek> the weird part is kipi-plugins doc is installed by default
[08:10] <nixternal> ScottK: for the record, openoffice.org-gtk does not fix the problem :)
[08:10] <nixternal> and OO.o is still broken in my Ubuntu vhost
[08:13] <nixternal> robotgeek: ya, why kipi-plugins-doc and not digikam is a little odd
[08:13] <nixternal> Riddell: when you are up and around, care to explain why digikam-docs are in universe and not main? especially over kipi-plugin-docs
[08:14] <danimo_> huh? since when is there a "kde plugin assistant" in konq?
[08:14] <nixternal> for a while I believe
[08:15] <danimo_> nixternal: I've never seen it working though
[08:15] <nixternal> me either...I was going to say that, but wasn't 100% sure about it
[08:15] <robotgeek> does it handle the flash thingie, cause something installed it automatically for me :)
[08:16] <nixternal> it used to, because I remember taking a screenshot of it for Feisty release notes
[08:16] <robotgeek> yes, it did for feisty for me. it was sweet!
[08:25] <nixternal> ya, just setup a .desktop file for it
[08:25] <nixternal> it is actually fairly decent
[08:25] <nixternal> don't run it in vmware or such, it constantly crashes
[08:25] <robotgeek> well, i dont have multiple cores, so i am not going to attempt that
[08:26] <nixternal> ya, I just found out with vbox you can set it up to use any amount of cores that you have available
[08:29] <danimo_> grml, soffice in feisty is totally broken :(
[08:30] <danimo_> ah, as mentioned above...
[08:30] <danimo_> why can't dell send their offers as PDF? :(
[09:07] <_StefanS_> morning
[09:08] <Hobbsee> morning _StefanS_
[09:08] <_StefanS_> hey hobbs
[09:12] <_StefanS_> cant remember how you grep after stuff containing - in bash... anyone?
[09:12] <_StefanS_> \- ?
[09:13] <Hobbsee> _StefanS_: grep -R - * ?
[09:13] <_StefanS_> uhm seems like \\- works..
[09:13] <_StefanS_> always forget about it
[09:13] <_StefanS_> thanks
[09:15] <stdin> grep -- - works too
[09:20] <_StefanS_> stdin: thanks :) got it working now
[09:31] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: do you know what happened to that kdesudo thingy?
[09:31] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: things kinda went quiet it seems..
[09:32] <Hobbsee> _StefanS_: is waiting to be promoted, the MIR reviewed
[09:32] <_StefanS_> Hobbsee: oh great :)
[09:59] <Hobbsee> nixternal: ping
[10:26] <nixternal> yo yo
[10:26] <nixternal> thunder woke me up, so I decided to see what was going on
[10:27] <nixternal> oh Hobbsee, you ping me?
[10:39] <nixternal> OK, me beds again, see ya in a bit
[11:09] <Hobbsee> nixternal: yes
[11:09] <Hobbsee> nixternal: release notes
[11:12] <fabo> Riddell: since Qt4.3, i started to add qt-copy patches. i don't know if -kdecopy is needed anymore ...
[11:13] <fabo> Qt4.3.1 is ready, i plan to do the upload soon.
[11:25] <johannesNeu>  hi guys! can someone help me - got my kubuntu gutsy with kd4-development snapshot3 - want to develop for kde4 now ... don't now which directories & stuff i should use
[11:29] <_StefanS_> johannesNeu: maybe you should start here http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Architecture
[11:30] <_StefanS_> johannesNeu: also install kdevelop and qt4-designer, qt4-doc, qt4-dev-tools
[11:30] <_StefanS_> johannesNeu: ask for stuff in #kde related to kde4
[11:33] <johannesNeu> _StefanS_ danke :)
[11:33] <_StefanS_> johannesNeu: kein problem
[11:48] <Riddell> fabo: did you update the copyright file in 4.3.1?
[11:49] <fabo> Riddell: yes
[11:49] <Riddell> ok
[11:50] <fabo> i'll probably update qt-copy svn today too
[11:52] <Riddell> I'll probably delete -kdecopy at some point when I work out how to delete packages, it was from when kde 4 needed unstable qt but hopefully that won't be the case any more
[11:53] <fabo> sometimes there are some glitches introduced but lubos and zack are reactive :)
[11:58] <Riddell> _Sime: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgnome/+bug/118745
[11:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118745 in libgnome "Font sizes in Gutsy are vulnerable to bad X.org DPI detection" [Medium,In progress] 
[11:58] <Riddell> they dropped their dpi setting, and now madness doth ensue
[12:41] <_StefanS_> Riddell: and subpixel hinting is still not enabled in ubuntu...
[12:43] <mhb> hello
[12:43] <Hobbsee> hiya mhb
[12:44] <mhb> is there still time to test candidates?
[12:45] <Hobbsee> mhb: yes
[12:46] <Riddell> _StefanS_: talked to bryce about that?
[12:46] <_StefanS_> Riddell: nope
[12:46] <_StefanS_> Riddell: doing that now
[03:41] <nosrednaekim> mhb: hey, how is the restricted-manager soming along?
[03:42] <Hobbsee> it's in
[03:42] <nosrednaekim> its in? so its going to be in the next Tribe?
[03:43] <Hobbsee> yep
[03:43] <Hobbsee> it's installed by default now
[03:43] <nosrednaekim> sweet! good job mhb!
[03:44] <mhb> nosrednaekim: thanks ... get it and start reporting bugs :o)
[03:46] <nosrednaekim> ok,I will, when I go back over to my gutsy partition.
[04:00] <nosrednaekim> Hey, I just read that ubuntu will have the tracker search tool by default. What is kubuntu going use?
[04:01] <Hobbsee> strigi, iirc
[04:01] <nosrednaekim> isn't that KDE4?
[04:03] <Riddell> no, it's desktop independent
[04:03] <Riddell> and 0.5.5 seems to actually not be entirely broken
[04:05] <nosrednaekim> oh, ok.
[04:05] <nosrednaekim> You guys really should have a blog or something detailing whats going on with kubuntu development.
[04:06] <mhb> nosrednaekim: like dot.kubuntu.org or something?
[04:07] <nosrednaekim> yeah... something like that. KDE's generates great publicity
[04:07] <mhb> nosrednaekim: I am sure we could set something like that up, but we'd need editors
[04:07] <nosrednaekim> I would do it.
[04:08] <jjesse> have you read the release notes on the wiki?
[04:09] <jjesse> nixternal does a great job keeping those for each release, including the different alphas
[04:09] <nosrednaekim> oh yes, they are very nice.
[04:10] <jjesse> would that help you stay "current" on development or you looking for more?
[04:11] <nosrednaekim> i'm not worried about keeping myself current on development. I just thought it would be good to have a sort of blog that tells about what it going on within the project.
[04:12] <DaSkreech> commit-digest!!
[04:12] <Riddell> we do have individual blogs
[04:12] <DaSkreech> Sorry ..
[04:13] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: where?
[04:13] <Hobbsee> on planet ubutnu
[04:13] <Hobbsee> er, ubuntu
[04:20] <nosrednaekim> ah ok, never knew that existed :)
[04:21] <mhb> nosrednaekim: there's not much about Kubuntu usually
[04:21] <nosrednaekim> yeah... I noticed that.
[04:22] <mhb> actually, I don't consider nosrednaekim's proposal that bad. With our plans to redesign and reshape the content, we could also expand the current "Kubuntu News" to more than just official announcements
[04:23] <nosrednaekim> it could be a place to review new applications and such.
[04:23] <mhb> we could post just anything interesting about Kubuntu, like simple articles about applications, or news from the Kubuntu front and so on
[04:23] <jjesse> +1 to mhb
[04:23] <nosrednaekim> yeah, thats what I was thinking.
[04:28] <bddebian> Heya
[04:30] <jjesse> hiya bddebian
[04:30] <bddebian> Hi jjesse
[04:35] <DaSkreech> Anyone uses Krecipes?
[04:36] <DaSkreech> Hey jjesse
[04:36] <nosrednaekim> DaSkreech: yep
[04:36] <nosrednaekim> a little
[04:36] <nosrednaekim> formy mom
[04:36] <DaSkreech> It seems to not have any documentation in Feisty
[04:36] <nosrednaekim> I never noticed ;)
[04:36] <DaSkreech> I remember reading through the help file in Edgy
[04:37] <jjesse> hiya DaSkreech
[04:37] <DaSkreech> There seem to be quite a few apps in Kubuntu that ship with no help
[04:37] <DaSkreech> Which is not helpful :(
[04:38] <nosrednaekim> but is that a problem with Krecipes or with kubuntu?
[04:38] <nosrednaekim> I mean, does documentation exist?
[04:38] <jjesse> trhen join #kde-docs and start writing the odcumentation :)
[04:40] <DaSkreech> nosrednaekim: I remember reading through it when I downloaded it
[04:41] <DaSkreech> Interesting programs I normally install it, setup katapult to see it, open it then press F1 to see if it reveals any secrets to me
[04:44] <DaSkreech> Kmymoney2 ftbcb!
[04:44] <nosrednaekim> I have to go all, I hope the blog thing works out, I think it would be helpful.
[05:21] <nixternal> good mornin'
[05:21] <Riddell> morning nixternal, thanks for another great tribe page
[05:22] <DaSkreech> reading it now
[05:27] <nixternal> no prob
[05:30] <mhb> nixternal: yeah, thanks for that
[05:31] <DaSkreech> nixternal: OMG
[05:31] <mhb> nixternal: also thanks for the cookie :o)
[05:31] <DaSkreech> the write up for OO.o is hilarious
[05:31] <nixternal> hehe
[05:32] <nixternal> ya, I had to put a little fun in there to spice up OO.o for the time being :)
[05:32] <nixternal> mhb: you deserved that cookie big time :)
[05:33] <DaSkreech> MMM Qt 4.4 looks nice
[05:34] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Is edubuntu-desktop-kde eventually supposed to be a replacement for edubuntu-desktop ?
[05:34] <mhb> DaSkreech: no
[05:35] <DaSkreech> mhb: Never?
[05:35] <Riddell> it's an equivalent package
[05:35] <Riddell> it's unlikely to replace it, since ogra seems to still prefer the other desktop
[05:35] <DaSkreech> it installs all the apps that edubuntu-desktop does ?
[05:36] <DaSkreech> Oh yes of course but power is in the hands of the user :)
[05:37] <mhb> DaSkreech: I would say it will stay that way as long as Ubuntu will prefer GNOME
[05:37] <DaSkreech> mhb: Yeah. I don't care about defaults :)
[05:37] <DaSkreech> I care that if I install edubuntu-dsektop-kde I will get all the edubuntu apps on a KDE desktop
[05:37] <DaSkreech> Maybe someday with a nice Kids theme
[05:41] <mhb> nixternal: I disagree with that, you are the one that deserves cookies way more than me
[05:42] <mhb> nixternal: you spend your own free time doing documentation, Tribe news, and so on
[05:42] <nixternal> why thank you :)
[05:48] <nixternal> Alright everyone, time for my tribal speech...Good work everybody with this latest release. Granted nspluginwrapper/viewer and OO.o is broken, but we do have a beautiful splash screen :) Here is to all of the Kubuntu devs and for those who made Tribe 4 possible!
[05:52] <ScottK> Yeah Hah!
[05:52] <ScottK> oops, that's the US Western meme, not the Tribal meme ;-)
[05:54] <mhb> Does anyone know whether Fedora had made any Fast User Switching applets for KDE?
[05:55] <nixternal> mhb: I didn't notice any...their KDE is nothing more than KDE with the same icons from Red Hat in the 90's...I was upset they talked it up so much and I feel didn't do KDE justice
[05:55] <nixternal> I was hoping for something better from them
[05:55] <nixternal> I wonder when Fedora in general will wake up and realize they are not Red Hat and their icons are oogly :)
[05:56] <nixternal> it is quite fast though, just doesn't feel user friendly that much to me
[05:56] <mhb> nixternal: have they created the ISO spin yet?
[05:56] <nixternal> the next KDE implementation I can't wait to see is Foresight
[05:56] <nixternal> mhb: they did have a LiveCD for KDE at one time, err DVD that is
[05:57] <mhb> nixternal: I wanted to test fedora 7 the other day, but there was not even a simple way to download a KDE install iso
[05:57] <nixternal> I think it is all apart of their 4308430 CD bundle
[05:57] <nixternal> there used to be the KDE dvd, but I don't know what they did with it
[05:58] <nixternal> Ubuntu Restaurant and Yoga Studio, a vegetarian eatery and yoga studio, plans to open for dinner Aug. 20.
[06:00] <nixternal> http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3693511
[06:00] <nixternal> oh wow, that is a non-community type person right there
[06:10] <mhb> I would so like to see the Tribe4 GNOME features in KDE soon-ish
[06:14] <mhb> the deskbar applet, fast user switching, no flicker when logging out...
[06:14] <DaSkreech> Deskbar?
[06:14] <DaSkreech> Isn't that like Katapult?
[06:14] <mhb> DaSkreech: it looks like spotlight to me
[06:15] <DaSkreech> Well with Multiple hits
[06:15] <DaSkreech>  katapult still needs to get that sorted
[06:15] <mhb> DaSkreech: I don't use katapult because when I input "Firefox" it offers me "Firefox news" bookmark
[06:15] <mhb> DaSkreech: which is what spotlight seems to avoid, and deskbar applet too
[06:16] <DaSkreech> mhb: I used to type web since that brought up Firefox web browser
[06:16] <DaSkreech> mhb: apparently you can type any unique section
[06:16] <DaSkreech> Saves loads of time with OO.o apps
[06:17] <DaSkreech> but eventually I just turned off the bookmarks plugin since I have never and probably will never call a bookmark from katapult
[06:17] <DaSkreech> mhb: Which makes it a) faster and b) much less annoying to use
[06:21] <nixternal> ditto
[06:27] <mhb> DaSkreech: isn't katapult going to be "made obsolete" by krunner?
[06:28] <DaSkreech> mhb: Hopefully not
[06:28] <mhb> DaSkreech: I am afraid it will be.
[06:28] <DaSkreech> Krunner can maybe replace some of the things that katpult is currently doing but katapult can be made to be much more :)
[06:28] <DaSkreech> mhb: Probably for casual users
[06:30] <mhb> DaSkreech: which could mean disabling it in Kubuntu in the end
[06:30] <mhb> having two apps do the same thing is not really the Kubuntu install CD way
[06:30] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[06:32] <Riddell> DaSkreech: why do you hope not?
[06:33] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Cause I hope that katapult will progress and find a position for itself
[06:33] <DaSkreech> It may be for advanced users in which case krunner wil be sufficent for the needs of most
[06:33] <DaSkreech> pertty much like Konsole and yakuake
[06:34] <Riddell> anything that needs you to type an application name is for advanced users
[06:34] <Riddell> I don't really need why katapult and krunner should be any different
[06:42] <bddebian> Hey folks, it appears that okular has been removed from Debian and has unmet deps in Gutsy.  Should it be removed?
[06:43] <nixternal> boo!
[06:43] <bddebian> ahh
[06:43] <bddebian> Hi nixternal
[06:43] <nixternal> wasabi bddebian...where have you been hiding?
[06:43] <bddebian> RL work :'-(
[06:43] <nixternal> not a valid excuse, but OK :)
[06:44] <bddebian> Tell my bosses that will ya? ;-P
[06:53] <bddebian> So, anyone care about okular?
[06:53] <Hobbsee> bddebian: vaguley.  it's kde4 stuff
[06:53] <bddebian> Aye but it was dropped from Debian
[07:07] <nixternal> Riddell: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionKvKbd
[07:07] <nixternal> I am updating kvkbd right now to 0.4.5
[07:07] <nixternal> he included the one-button/button repeat/macros and has resizable fonts now
[07:10] <Riddell> nixternal: oh, interesting
[07:10] <nixternal> he is quick :)
[07:25] <nixternal> kvkbd 0.4.5 update complete and uploaded
[07:30] <mhb> Riddell: well, if nothing else, at least I help the author of onboard to clean up his code :o)
[07:31] <Riddell> :)
[07:32] <RadiantFire> random question, were there every any plans to add a Roaming checkbox to knetworkconf?
[07:47] <mhb> Riddell: but if I should abandon onboard-qt, tell me
[07:49] <nixternal> mhb: I don't think you should, option/choice is good in this situation.
[07:50] <nixternal> unless you feel that onboard-qt wouldn't be as powerful of course..but you could always make it more powerful right :)
[07:53] <mhb> nixternal: well, I prefer making a good app greater than creating a separate app which does the same thing
[07:54] <nixternal> which is better in your opinion between kvkbd and onboard?
[07:56] <mhb> nixternal: onboard has some features that kvkbd doesn't, also I prefer to have apps that share a common core, whereas kvkbd a single purpose app with no interest in portability
[07:56] <nixternal> if onboard would be the better solution, then I would say go for it
[07:59] <ScottK> Arghh.  You can add sourceforge to the list of sites that can cause Konqueror to freeze.
[08:02] <mhb> nixternal: yeah, what troubles me is that I can't reuse kvkbd's code and vice versa
[08:03] <mhb> nixternal: I really hate the situations when someone does the app, then another guy comes, recreates the same thing and gets all the credit because of his power to push his own implementation
[08:07] <DaSkreech> bddebian: Why?
[08:07] <bddebian> DaSkreech: Why what?
[08:07] <DaSkreech> Did it get dropped
[08:08] <bddebian> Dunno
[08:10] <bddebian> Oh, probably because it was never in Debian.. Duh :-)
[08:17] <bddebian> Was libgs-esp8 replaced with libgs8 ?
[08:17] <Riddell> anyone want to do a library transition on openbabel?
[08:17] <Riddell> bddebian: yes, gs-esp has been merged into gs
[08:17] <Riddell> and the library followed
[08:17] <bddebian> Ah, thx, I think that's okular's problem
[08:18] <Riddell> okular should pick up libgs8 fine?
[08:18] <jjesse> looks like open office is still giving problems in tribe 4?
[08:18] <bddebian> May just need a rebuild
[08:18] <Riddell> jjesse: yes
[08:18] <jjesse> interseting
[08:18] <Riddell> jjesse: you can tell because we have two complaints here, despite the warning at the top https://wiki.kubuntu.org/GutsyGibbon/Tribe4/Kubuntu/Feedback
[08:22] <bddebian> Are we supposed to just throw up another version to pick up newer libraries?  I think both of oculars (libpoppler1-qt4 and libgs-esp8) unmet deps would get fixed on a rebuild
[08:29] <bddebian> Riddell: What's needed for openbabel?
[08:31] <jonathan__> did nixternal mark that on release notes?
[08:31] <nixternal> of course :)
[08:32] <jjesse> the wireless sucks today at work, keep dropping off and on
[08:34] <nixternal> Riddell: we have a kdelibs4-dev issue on amd64 builds right now it seems
[08:34] <nixternal> in the buildd that is
[08:35] <Riddell> nixternal: what's the issue?
[08:35] <Riddell> ScottK: building anything in paticular?
[08:35] <nixternal> for PPC as well
[08:36] <nixternal> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33164/
[08:36] <ScottK> Well it looks to me like it's working it's way through the entire archive for an initial build for that arch.
[08:36] <DaSkreech> jjesse: wouldn't know :( Gutsy killed my Wireless :-(
[08:37] <ScottK> DaSkreech: What bug?
[11:29] <jeroenvrp> adept_manager: Unknown option '--dist-upgrade-devel'.
[11:29] <jeroenvrp> using a up to date feisty
[11:29] <jeroenvrp> how to update to gutsy?
[11:40] <DaSkreech> jeroenvrp: I was really confused about that
[11:40] <DaSkreech> nixternal: can I get a confirmation on that
[11:40] <jeroenvrp> DaSkreech: it is on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/GutsyGibbon/Tribe4/Kubuntu
[11:40] <jeroenvrp> so why doesnt work
[11:41] <DaSkreech> jeroenvrp: I know.
[11:41] <DaSkreech> I meant to ask about it :)
[11:41] <jeroenvrp> ok :-)
[11:41] <Riddell> jeroenvrp: in feisty it's --version-upgrade or similar
[11:42] <Riddell> just like it says on that wiki page
[11:43] <jeroenvrp> Riddell: prior stable release
[11:43] <jeroenvrp> mmm, ok that was not clear for me
[11:43] <jeroenvrp> let me try
[11:46] <jeroenvrp> Riddell: ok thanks; maybe it's an idea to mention how to it with feisty on that wiki-page also
[11:46] <jhutchins> Dang, I need to make note of who runs the bot.
[11:46] <jhutchins> fdoving: ping?
[11:46] <Riddell> jeroenvrp: it's a wiki, edit!
[11:47] <Tm_T> jhutchins: seveas, and he's off
[11:47] <jeroenvrp> oh can I
[11:47] <jeroenvrp> lets see
[11:47] <Tm_T> jhutchins: bot issues at #ubuntu-ops ;)
[11:47] <jhutchins> Tm_T: Tnx.
[11:50] <DaSkreech> nixternal: The Wiki page says --dist-upgrade-devel
[11:50] <jeroenvrp> Riddell: it's now: "...simply press Alt + F2 and type kdesu "adept_manager --version-upgrade" if you are running Feisty (7.04) and kdesu "adept_manager --dist-upgrade-devel" for older releases."
[11:52] <Riddell> jeroenvrp: that's wrong, --dist-upgrade-devel is for latest gutsy
[11:52] <jeroenvrp> ok
[11:52] <jeroenvrp> wait
[11:53] <jeroenvrp> but, is updating gutsy not just updating daily with the normal update procedure
[11:53] <Riddell> not if you do it this way :)
[11:54] <jeroenvrp> Riddell: so I won't be able to daily update when I update with adept_manager --version-upgrade
[11:54] <jeroenvrp> ?
[11:55] <Riddell> sure, do whatever you want
[11:55] <Riddell> but if you want to use the dist upgrade tool, --dist-upgrade-devel is the way to do it in gutsy
[11:56] <jeroenvrp> Riddell: well, when people have a gutsy prerelease, they will see verery morning the update-notification, so they will use that I guess
[11:56] <Riddell> yes, they can do that too
[11:57] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Sorry about this but I wasn't clear before edubuntu-desktop-kde will give me all the apps that edubuntu-desktop will? or is it just KDE-edu?
[11:58] <Riddell> DaSkreech: yes, it includes the same educational apps
[11:59] <Riddell> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.gutsy/annotate/martin.pitt%40ubuntu.com-20070808234957-mnn04laaw4vy1a3v?file_id=desktopkde-20070726111649-pnszx27qgcw3y6l7-1
[11:59] <jeroenvrp> Riddell: "and kdesu "adept_manager --dist-upgrade-devel" if you already run a pre-release of Gutsy."
[11:59] <Riddell> jeroenvrp: good enough
[11:59] <jeroenvrp> ok great
[12:00] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Sweet I'll roll this out on half of the machines a the school we run on edubuntu
[12:00] <DaSkreech> see what the students say
[12:01] <Riddell> DaSkreech: well, it's entirely untested :)
[12:01] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Even better :)
[12:02] <DaSkreech> Nothign like feedback from the mouth of babes