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tgm4883im having some trouble grasping the difference between a release and a milestone01:23
tgm4883it seems like if we wanted to have an alpha version of our project, would that be a milestone?01:24
tgm4883or would milestones only be used as a basis for when we want to have something done, and then make a release when we officially release the alpha01:25
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mthaddontgm4883: that's how I understand the difference (what you said last)02:05
tgm4883thanks mthaddon02:06
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tgm4883i think were getting a little better organized now, instead of having every bug and blueprint all fall under 1 category02:06
tgm4883mthaddon, your a launchpad admin, correct?02:10
tgm4883are launchpad admins only able to remove a release or series from a project?02:11
tgm4883we don't seem to be able to, we were trying a few different things and would like to remove some of these items as they are incorrect02:12
mthaddonI think the process is for you to file a new "question" here https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion asking for it to be removed and then I can take care of it02:12
tgm4883i'll go ahead and ask there, i have one more question if you have the time02:13
tgm4883I noticed that launchpad also list distrobutions, is there a way to become a distrobution02:14
mthaddonI'm not sure what the best way to do that is - best to try and catch kiko when he's not afk and he should be able to help you02:15
tgm4883ah thank you02:15
tgm4883i will file that other question now02:16
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tgm4883the question is located here https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/1118802:18
mthaddoncool, I should be able to get to that tomorrow - thx02:19
tgm4883thank you02:19
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kauaihi, um.  I did something real stupid and committed a file I didn't want to... how can I remove it entirely?02:30
tgm4883kauai, you could ask the question here https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion, thats where I had to ask to get a series removed from a project02:45
kiko-afkkauai, just bzr rm it and commit again?03:00
kauaiyeah, but then it's still visible in the old revisions right?03:01
kauaiI want it removed forever03:01
kauaiis this possible?03:01
Spadsperhaps uncommit?03:01
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kauaiSpads, thanks, I will look into it... sorry all of this is all new to me03:02
Spadskauai: #bzr may be a better place to ask questions like this03:03
kiko-afkuncommit and then push, yeah03:03
=== RAOF kicks dogfood again.
kiko-afkRAOF, seems like it goes to sleep every time this time? :)03:05
kiko-afkcprov-out, you know what's up?03:05
RAOFI've got some queued builds, and the buildds are idle, but there's no building happening :)03:05
kiko-afkI wonder why this is happening. did you write to launchpad-users cc: cprov RAOF?03:06
RAOFkiko-afk: No, actually.  This is a new problem, the other one got resolved :)03:06
kiko-afkRAOF, what was it yesterday?03:06
RAOFkiko-afk: The builds weren't queuing.03:07
RAOFNow a new package is queued, but isn't being sent to the buildd.03:07
kiko-afkhow was it solved?03:08
RAOFI'm not sure, actually.  It just started working again.03:09
RAOFI hadn't got around to writing the lp email, and it got fixed before I did.03:09
kiko-afkit sounds to me like a similar problem03:11
cprov-outRAOF: dogfood is back on track again 03:21
cprov-outRAOF: sorry for the inconvenience.03:22
RAOFcprov-out: That's ok.  Beta code, testing, it's hardly mission critical :)03:23
RAOFcprov-out: Thanks :)03:23
cprov-outRAOF: the problem is not the PPA code, since yesterday we have other parts under test in the same environment.03:24
RAOFOh?  What is/was the problem?03:25
cprov-outRAOF: builders were configured to only build packages target to ubuntu primary archive, not PPAs (Trusted/Untrusted builder state)03:27
RAOFOh, whoops :)03:27
cprov-outhttps://dogfood.launchpad.net/+builds/rubidium/, for instance (letf portlet)03:28
cprov-outRAOF: yes, big whoops. You are more than welcome to ping me if anything strange is happening with PPA-beta, I will be able to help you.03:29
RAOFcprov-out: Thanks.  Do you prefer here or lp-users ML?03:30
cprov-outRAOF: whatever suits better to you, usually IRC is faster than email, but some question should fit better in the ML03:31
RAOFFair enough.  Now, to fix my nouveau build.  I suck :)03:31
cprov-outRAOF: looking forward to see "Nouveau Xorg driver" coming out of PPA :)03:31
RAOFThanks again03:31
cprov-outg'night, guys03:32
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_Poseidon_Good evening04:14
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jkakarWhere do I find the link to create a new milestone for a project?05:40
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ubotuNew bug: #131231 in malone "Timeout is occurring frequently with "short" queries" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13123108:25
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Hobbsee_morning carlos!08:59
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Kuhrschercarlos, danilos: Good morning. I just noticed that dolphin is not translateable via Launchpad, although it is in "main".09:18
Kuhrschercarlos, danilos: This is propabably not correct ;-)09:19
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Hobbseeyou should probably check the upstream kde translation for that09:19
Hobbseewhy translate it only for kubuntu?09:20
KuhrscherIt is translated upstream ;-)09:20
KuhrscherThe translation is only missing for Ubuntu ;-)09:20
KuhrscherIf an app is in "main" it gets its translations via the langpacks generated from Rosetta or there won't be any translation.09:21
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KuhrscherHobbsee: Dolphin's upstream translations did not find their way to Rosetta, so they are missing just for Kubuntu. For other distributions everything is alright.09:23
KuhrscherHobbsee: But generally you are absolutely right :)09:23
Hobbseeah right.  i wonder why they didnt09:23
daniloscarlos, Kuhrscher: it seems to be due to dolphin rename to d3lphin09:24
carlosdanilos: I got the unapproved .pot files09:24
=== carlos is approving them
carlosKuhrscher: thanks for the warning09:24
Kuhrschercarlos, No problem. Thanks for your quick response.09:25
KuhrscherHobbsee: There is also they way around. KMplayer switched from main to universe. Before it got its translations via the langpacks generated from the Rosetta translations. Now it _should_ use just the packaged upstream translations, but these are missing in the Ubuntu package. So KMplayer is untranslated for now, but only in Kubuntu. I filed a bug about this issue some month ago...09:27
HobbseeKuhrscher: bug #?09:28
ubotuLaunchpad bug 123544 in kmplayer "Kmplayer Package does not contain translations" [Undecided,New]  09:28
carlosKuhrscher: the only solution for that is a package rebuild09:30
Hobbseecarlos: just that?  no need to remove the "export stuff to rosetta" stuff?09:31
Kuhrschercarlos, Hobbsee: The mplayer entries are still in Rosetta...09:32
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carlosHobbsee: well.. that's also something interesting to do, but not a must to get it using directly what comes from the package itself09:32
Hobbseecarlos: right.  so there's no net loss in leaving that stuff in there?09:32
carloswell, removing it helps that translators focus on useful information09:33
Kuhrschercarlos, Hobbsee: I just hope it will get its package rebuild with included translations before the release of Gutsy ;-)09:34
carlosKuhrscher: I see kmplayer as still being in main09:34
carlosin fact09:34
carlosit was moved back from universe to main 4 days ago09:35
KuhrscherAhh, right09:35
KuhrscherI didn't checked that again.09:35
Hobbseecarlos: wonder why it got demoted, then.09:35
KuhrscherOk, so this issue should be fixed with the next langpack, right?09:36
carlosKuhrscher: yes, next language pack rebuild should include its translations again09:36
carlosKuhrscher: it should be a base rebuild09:36
Hobbseecarlos: just checking - so kmplayer, etc, doesnt need to be touched?09:37
carlosHobbsee: what do you mean about 'doesn't need to be touched' ?09:37
carlosrebuilt? or translated?09:37
Hobbseecarlos: rebuilt, sorry09:37
carlosHobbsee: no, no need to rebuild it again09:37
Hobbseegreat )09:37
KuhrscherOk, thank you everybody :)09:38
carlosKuhrscher: you are welcome09:38
RAOFcprov-ZzZ: For your enjoyment when you awake, try !nouveau :)09:39
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head_victimI'm having problems importing a pgp key into launchpad. It keeps telling me it cannot import it and tells me to check 3 things. I have done everything as it suggests and I even query the database and it's been there over 12 hours. Is this long enough or should I just wait to see if it works tomorrow?10:59
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ubotuNew bug: #131258 in malone "Pagetests should use the test browser" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13125811:31
Hobbseemrevell: OOPS-586D101811:44
mrevellHobbsee: Thanks :) I'm still getting an error on that so I'll check it.11:45
Hobbseemrevell: it's basically from searching for a word on a list of bugs.11:45
Hobbseemrevell: the URL in particular for that is https://bugs.launchpad.net/~gothicx/?field.searchtext=sync&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=New&field.status%3Alist=Incomplete&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=Triaged&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=11:46
Hobbseebut i assume you can see that11:46
mrevellhead_victim: Apologies for not spotting your question earlier. Let me see if I can get some help for you.11:46
mrevellHobbsee: List of bugs such as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=New&field.status%3Alist=Incomplete&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=Triaged&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=11:48
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head_victimThats ok, I've never played with keys much before and I'm pretty sure I've done everything exactly as described. It does say it can take up to an hour or so to make sure it's mirrored correctly but it's been a lot longer than that.11:51
Hobbseemrevell: i cant seem to make that one oops11:53
mrevellhead_victim: Another user had a similar problem last week and one of the LP developers had to manually fix insert the user's key. It looks as though the person I need to speak to (who is in Brazil) isn't online yet. I'll ping him when he comes online. What's your LP username?11:54
mrevellHobbsee: Hmm. So, the problem is that when you have a list of bugs and perform a search within that list, sometimes you get an OOPS? Is there a bug report yet?11:55
Hobbseemrevell: correct, and no idea.  i havent filed one11:55
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mrevellHobbsee: Okay, thanks. How many bug lists have you found this problem on? Just the gothicx one above or on others?11:55
head_victimmrevell, Jared Norris is the display name.11:56
Hobbseemrevell: various others. unfortunately, i didnt keep the oops numbers.  various others are having this too11:56
mrevellHobbsee: Sorry that you're experiencing the problem. Thanks for letting me know. I shall file a bug and raise it in today's meeting. Cheers :)11:56
Hobbseemrevell: thanks11:57
mrevellhead_victim: Thanks. I'll email my colleague and ask him to take a look. He may contact you directly, his name is salgado.11:57
head_victimNo worries, should I idle in here or is it enough that I am in other channels on the network?11:57
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mrevellhead_victim: If you could private message me with your email address, I'll get back to you using that, so you don't have to wait around here.12:08
head_victimmrevell, thank you for your assistance tonight it has been appreciated.12:09
mrevellhead_victim: No problem :)12:10
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Hobbseemrevell: i must be a muppet.12:36
Hobbseemrevell: surely, i must be a muppet.  launchpad wouldnt do this12:36
Hobbseemrevell: to prove my muppetry, please tell me where the "view the bugs" sectoin is on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-winfoss/12:36
mrevellHobbsee: You press the "Search" button with an empty search box and it shows you all the related bugs 12:37
mrevellHobbsee: Why do you think you're a muppet? :)12:38
Hobbseemrevell: because i didnt think that launchpad could possibly have hidden the "view the bugs" button.  i knew i probably wasnt finding it12:38
BjornTHobbsee: or, you look at the right, and click on "List all open bugs", which is right above the "Report a bug" button.12:39
Hobbseemrevell: can i just say that that's *really* not intuitave.12:39
Hobbseeohhhhhh....there it is12:39
Hobbseethat's moved12:39
mrevellBjornT: I wonder if that link could be more prominent. Perhaps a button. What do you think?12:39
Hobbseemrevell: why is that right beneath, and in the same section as, the summary of bugs?12:39
mrevellHobbsee: I don't know the exact reason but I can find out.12:40
Hobbseethe attention there is on report a bug or ask a question - there really should be a "view the bugs", or something button there12:40
BjornTmrevell: i don't think a button is good to use here, since it's not really an action. maybe rename the "Search" button to make it more obvious that you don't have to enter a search string, or something.12:46
BjornTHobbsee, mrevell: mpt can probably tell you why the 'list all open bugs' link was moved.12:47
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mrevellBjornT: My expectation would be to see the bug list when you visit that page by default, without having to click anything. The fact that there isn't a button to list all open bugs means that the option is almost hidden behind the prominence of the "Report a bug" and "Ask a question" buttons.12:48
HobbseeBjornT: if people who have used LP for ages, and are fairly fluent in LPesque cant find simple things like how to view bugs, then clearly your approach is wrong.  new users arent going to have a hope in hell of finding them.12:48
Hobbseemrevell: yes, it does promote the idea of "report bugs without searching"12:49
Hobbseei'm not sure why they're saying "report a bug" first -because clearly you should search before you report12:49
BjornTHobbsee: well, i think one reason for you not finding the link, is that you expected the link to be somewhere else, and you didn't expect it to have been moved to that place.12:51
BjornTHobbsee: although, i do agree that the link should be more prominent12:51
HobbseeBjornT: this is true12:52
HobbseeBjornT: i then and went and looked for a likely looking link, and found nothing.12:52
pcardune(somewhat OT) speaking of bugs, I'm looking for a way to put in the "fix committed" message a link to the precise revision in which the fix was committed.  I like Trac's "r78" syntax.  I looked for this feature in LP but could not find it?  12:52
mwhudsonpcardune: you mean a codebrowse link?12:54
pcardunemwhudson: yes... it might be nice to have src:branchname:revnumber or something to that effect12:55
mwhudsonwhat would be even nicer is bzr ci --fixes support12:57
mwhudsonso that when a revision that has been annotated to be fixing a bug gets merged into trunk, the bug automatically flips over into "fix committed" and a link added12:58
mwhudsonthere is work towards this sort of thing being done12:59
pcardunethat would really be quite awesome indeed.  But still I there should be a way to link easily to something that has already been committed.  In case you forget to use --fixes01:00
mwhudsonfile a bug? :)01:01
mwhudsoni'm not aware of any existing bugs like this01:01
pcarduneok, will do01:02
pcarduneI just wanted to see if it was yet another "undocumented" feature (those pop up every now and then)01:02
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ubotuNew bug: #131279 in launchpad "Easily link to codebrowse interface from bug reports" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13127901:25
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mrevellHobbsee: ping03:02
Hobbseemrevell: pong03:02
mrevellhey Hobbsee - I've just tried that bug search again and it seems to be working to me.03:03
Hobbseemrevell: hmm.  seems it only doesnt work some of the time03:05
Hobbseemrevell: i cant reproduce it now, either, but i have been able to earlier...03:05
Hobbseemrevell: we didnt have a code change, have we?03:05
Hobbsee(seems like a random thing)03:05
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mrevellHobbsee: Yeah, me too. I'll report nonetheless. I can't see any cherrypicks that fix it, so AFAIK nothing has changed that could fix this between when we were talking earlier and now.03:06
Hobbseemrevell: right03:08
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mrevellHobbsee: How long has the bug search problem been around?03:21
Hobbseemrevell: couple of weeks, maybe?03:22
mrevellHobbsee: thanks03:22
mrevellHobbsee: bug 13129903:23
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131299 in malone "Searching from a user's bug page sometimes results in an OOPS" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13129903:23
ubotuNew bug: #131299 in malone "Searching from a user's bug page sometimes results in an OOPS" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13129903:31
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gmbmwhudson: mmm?03:56
mwhudsoni wonder if i have time to make coffee before the meeting gets going...03:57
gmbBetter get started.03:57
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SteveAWelcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting.04:00
SteveAFor the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating about Launchpad development.04:00
SteveAWho is here today?04:00
SteveA - Barry sends apologies.04:00
daniloscarlos: you?04:01
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SteveAanyone see a team-mate missing?04:02
BjornTallenap: ping - meeting time04:02
allenapBjornT: thanks04:03
SteveA== Agenda ==04:03
SteveA * Roll call04:03
SteveA * Agenda04:03
SteveA * Next meeting04:03
SteveA * Actions from last meeting04:03
SteveA * Oops report (Matsubara)04:03
SteveA * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)04:03
SteveA * Bug tags04:03
SteveA * Operations report (mthaddon)04:03
SteveA * DBA report (stub)04:03
SteveA * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)04:04
SteveA * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)04:04
SteveA (other items)04:04
SteveA * Blockers04:04
SteveANext meeting: same time next week please.04:04
SteveAAnyone know in advance that they'll be unable to be at that meeting?04:04
=== kiko-zzz is now known as kiko
BjornTi won't attend next week's meeting04:04
=== ..[topic/#launchpad:mpt] : Launchpad - https://launchpad.net/ | Next developer meeting: Thu 16 Aug 2007, 1400UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) | launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com (wiki:MailingLists) | Launchpad help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
SteveAkiko: you won't be at teh meeting? or you're belatedly here?04:04
kikoI'm belatedly here04:04
SteveA * Actions from last meeting04:05
SteveAthere were no actions04:05
SteveA * Oops report (Matsubara)04:05
matsubaraToday's oops report is about bug 13129904:05
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131299 in malone "Searching from a user's bug page sometimes results in an OOPS" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13129904:05
kikois this a performance oops, matsubara?04:05
kikoBjornT, so, I'm REALLY concerned that +bugs is timing out all over the shop04:05
matsubarakiko: seems so04:06
kikoBjornT, the interesting this is that this ties in to bigjools message this morning :)04:06
mptI get bug search timeouts fairly often, not just from person pages04:06
mwhudsonme too04:06
kikosame here04:06
matsubaraI'm running some explain analyze on staging and the offending query is taking a long time04:06
kikothis did not happen two cycles ago04:06
kikoso what's happening04:06
SteveAis this a side-effect of switching back to the old index implementation?04:06
mwhudsonwell, we changed indexes this weekend, is that part of it?04:06
kikoI don't /think/ so04:06
=== SteveA high fives mwhudson
BjornTkiko: me too. i'll take a look at it today to see if i can find something obvious.04:07
kikodoes anyone know if it's a too-many-queries or a too-expensive-query problem?04:07
SteveAso... I want to take a step back for a minute04:07
BjornTkiko: it's a too-expensive-query problem04:07
kikoBjornT, I can spend some time trying later today too, so send your findings and I can help continue04:07
danilosin my tests (not directly related to this), gin indexes proved to be 2-3 times faster than gist indexes on FTI fields04:07
matsubarathe oopses shows a too expensive query04:07
SteveAwhen we get timeout OOPS reports, what do we do about it?04:07
SteveAhow do we investigate it04:08
danilosjtv, now is the time for you to chip in ;)04:08
SteveAI have a feeling, (and this is just an impression,) that we kind of invent how we approach this afresh, each time we get a critical OOPS that isn't a Rosetta OOPS04:08
SteveAthe Rosetta ones being a longer-term issue04:08
jtvdanilos: do I _look_ like a database person?04:08
danilosjtv: no, but you are the one who has most recently worked on those sorts of problems, afaik04:09
SteveAjtv: I appreciate your insightful comments whenever database issues come up on the mailing list04:09
SteveAso, perhaps a few of us can get together after this meeting04:09
SteveAand work out how best to approach this kind of OOPS04:09
SteveAso that we'll have a good system for it, and for knowing our options, when the next one comes up04:09
kikosounds good04:10
SteveABjornT, jtv, stub, jamesh, me... kiko if you're interested04:10
=== jtv is in
SteveAand I'd like mthaddon to contribute too04:10
=== Spads [i=spacehob@unaffiliated/spads] has joined #launchpad
kikoI am interested04:10
SteveAwe can use the slot after this meeting, normally reserved for an infrastructure team conf call04:11
SteveARinchen: I'll discuss the outcome of this with you after the meeting.  You needn't be there, as I'm sure you have lots and lots of other things to do :-)04:11
RinchenGreat and many thanks :-) 04:12
SteveAmatsubara: back to you.  thanks for letting me interrupt.04:12
bigjoolsBjornT: we'll have to change the time for our call then04:12
matsubaraSteveA: actually that's the only oops, so back to you again. :-) thanks!04:12
SteveAmatsubara: okay.  although I saw many rosetta oopses, as usual.04:12
BjornTbigjools: yes, let's aim for 1600 UTC?04:13
bigjoolsBjornT: +104:13
matsubarathat's already known. no point bring it up again. jtv is on it.04:13
SteveAdo we have a list of "unfortunately expected" rosetta oopses, and the quantity we expect them in?04:13
jtvSteveA: I keep track, it's a short list04:13
=== jtv has pizza all over his hands
SteveAjtv: please put something up on a wiki page, when convenient04:14
SteveAmatsubara: done, thanks04:14
kikopizza is thicker than blood04:14
jtvSteveA: ok04:14
SteveA * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)04:14
RinchenHowdy. Two for today: carlos, status for Bug 56820 please.  Also, Bug 131043 is unassigned. SteveA did you intend jamesh to take this one on?04:14
ubotuLaunchpad bug 56820 in rosetta "Po export script is not robust enough" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/56820 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)04:14
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131043 in launchpad "database adapter serialisation tests disabled" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13104304:14
bigjoolspizza is tastier than blood04:14
stubstop making me hungry you twats04:14
carlosRinchen: hmm, we are supposed to change the that priority to high04:15
kikoRinchen, thanks for pointing out the export script oops. that's one which is really awful04:15
jtvstub: come on, it's Ronny's, just around the corner from you & you can even order in Dutch04:15
carloss/the that/that/04:15
kikoI'm inclined to even keep it at critical to make it get fixed04:15
kikoI mean, us only finding out it's broken because tom fished it out of -error-reports?04:15
carloskiko: that's a different oops04:15
jameshRinchen: it isn't clear how to fix bug 131043 -- by my understanding, the root cause is a design fault in psycopg104:16
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131043 in launchpad "database adapter serialisation tests disabled" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13104304:16
kikois it?04:16
stubThat is sort of tom's job - monitoring that stuff04:16
carloskiko: yes04:16
kikostub, I kinda expect developers to monitor /their/ parts of production.04:16
stubAnd the monitoring picked it up (yay)04:16
matsubarakiko: no, we found out because the script monitoring alerted us.04:16
kiko-error-reports isn't really a very good monitoring facility04:16
mptkiko, a bug's scheduling may depend on its importance, but its importance does not depend on it scheduling :-)04:16
SteveAjamesh: should we switch to psycopg2?04:16
carloskiko: although I agree that the other oops should be fixed, but it depends on danilo, jeroen or me doing a bad approval so it's not so critical (but important, yes)04:17
kikogood point04:17
kikocarlos, the fact that the whole script blows up is pretty bad, isn't it?04:17
SteveAjamesh: please put your thoughts about what the root cause is as a comment in that bug report04:17
carloskiko: indeed, we already talked about move to use OOPs infrastructure for scripts during the sprint in Alicante04:17
jameshSteveA: the problem appears to exist in psycopg2 as well, but should be a lot easier to fix there.04:17
jameshSteveA: I'll add my analysis04:17
SteveAjamesh: does the author of psycopg2 know about the problem?04:18
Rinchenkiko, are you ok with us downgrading that to High but having carlos attempt to fix it during this current cycle? 04:18
stubI  think we should switch to psycopg2 on the storm branch. psycopg1 is no longer maintained (well... apart from the patches Ubuntu devs do)04:18
SteveAis there a bug we can link to in their bug tracker?04:18
jameshSteveA: I filed a bug report about it, but have not had a response from him yet04:18
SteveAis there a linnk to that bug report in our launchpad bug?04:18
statikjamesh: I haven't heard any response about the psycopg2 bug I filed either, I was wondering if upstream is alive04:18
jameshI'll link the bug too04:18
Rinchenkiko, are you ok with us downgrading that to High but having carlos attempt to fix it during this current cycle? 04:19
jameshstatik: yeah.  there hasn't been any activity in SVN since the 2.0.6 release04:19
kiko(Rinchen, I am overreacting. it's not the end of the world)04:20
SteveAjamesh: is the test that intermittently fails due to that bug diabled ?04:20
jtvRinchen: this current cycle is "tomorrow," no?04:20
RinchenSteveA, we still need an owner for that bug.  Seems jamesh might be the right person. Do you agree?04:20
jameshSteveA: yes04:20
kikoit's not only disabled, it's diabled!04:20
SteveAjamesh: ok.  is the launchpad bug referenced in the text to the diabled bug?04:20
jameshSteveA: yes04:20
Rinchenjtv, yes that's a very good point. 04:20
SteveAjamesh: great, thanks04:20
jtvand carlos isn't exactly picknicking right now...04:21
jameshSteveA: actually, the bug reference is next to the place where the bug was disabled rather than in the doctest itself04:21
kikoRinchen, jtv: not if it's a critical bugfix04:21
kikoit can be done later. but it can't be big.04:21
jtvand it can't be "High"..?04:21
kikothe test was diabled, not the bug04:21
carlosright, it should be a fast fix04:22
SteveAthe whole doctest was diabled, and not just the failing portion of it?04:22
Rinchencarlos, jtv - go a head an downgrade it to HIGH but please attempt to get the fix out quickly04:22
mwhudsoni think the failing portion was copied to a new file and that file disabled04:22
Rinchenyikes... "go ahead and" 04:22
carlosRinchen: ok04:22
kikoSteveA, yeah, I'm not sure why jamesh did that.04:22
jameshSteveA: I moved the failing portion into its own doctest, since it was doctest it was in had grown a fair bit04:23
kikompt, you ignore me.04:23
kikompt, what what?04:23
mptI ignore you when?04:23
jameshI didn't disable unrelated tests04:23
SteveAok, you performed bug chiropody on an ingrown doctest04:23
kikompt, when I privmsg.04:23
mptkiko, ah, apparently I'm unregistered04:24
SteveAfreenode is lame like that04:24
=== statik looks up chiropody
stubBut you don't need to privmsg using freenode, and probably shouldn't...04:25
jtvstatik: no, not while you're recovering04:25
SteveAI asked that NickServ would actually talk to you, privmsg, to say "your message isnt' being delivered because..."04:25
SteveAinstead, there's just some server message that most irc clients don't show prominently at all04:25
kikoSteveA, I think it does but you can't have a server tab or it goes there04:25
mptIt's not confidential, just personal, and anyway, problem solved04:25
mptSorry for disturbing the meeting04:26
kikowhat mpt said04:26
SteveAkiko: I meant a proper /msg from nickserv.  it does it on other occassions, so the code is there.04:26
kikowhat's next?04:26
SteveARinchen: done with bugs?04:27
SteveA * Bug tags04:27
SteveAnone proposed04:27
RinchenSteveA, yes thanks04:27
SteveA * Operations report (mthaddon)04:27
mthaddonedge is now using the devel branch04:27
mthaddonbzr 0.18 has been upgraded04:27
mthaddonwill be working on adding loggerhead into RF today04:27
kikomthaddon, you rock! but what about edge-redirects?04:27
mthaddonthat's it from me for the moment unless there are any questions04:27
kikoI am unhappy that that didn't get done this week04:28
kikonot really unhappy but say 60%04:28
mthaddonkiko: been delayed a bit since we decided to switch the branch we're using, but the week's not over yet04:28
mthaddonkiko: we have to change the branch that's being synchronized to all the production servers04:28
mthaddonI have an RT ticket in to do that04:28
kikomthaddon, oh, sorry, the branch switching was much lower priority than the auto-redirect04:28
kikomaybe we can delay that?04:29
SteveAI don't see daily oops summaries about edge.04:29
SteveAam I missing something?04:29
kikoI didn't mean to imly it was urgent04:29
=== kiko looks at matsubara
matsubaraI can arrange that04:29
stubYou don't need to change the branch that is being synced - you could just change the job that builds rocketfuel-built/edge to use launchpad/devel instead of the edge branch04:29
mthaddonkiko: but we can't auto-redirect until we move edge off asuka, so it's all part of the app server reconfig project04:29
SteveAyou mean we can't auto-redirect cos we're worried about load?04:30
mthaddonstub: I did think about doing that, but it was decided that we wanted to use devel itself, not overwrite edge with devel04:30
SteveAI thought we'd done a day or week's test of that04:30
SteveAand it was fine04:30
mthaddonSteveA: yes04:30
kikoSteveA, a day's test and it was, tbh04:30
SteveAI still think we should reconfigure the app servers04:30
SteveAbut it needn't block continuing to use edge on asuka04:30
kikowhat do people think?04:31
mthaddonok, if you're okay with it, I can set up the edge redirect and continue working on app server reconfig04:31
SteveAI don't really know everything that's involved, so I don't want to make a lot of extra work for people04:31
stubasuka becomes unusable for a couple of hours a day when staging is rebuilding04:31
stubSo I'd be -104:31
mthaddonyeah, that was my main concern - DB rebuild on asuka really slows things down04:32
=== kiko sniffles
SteveAdo we need staging to rebuild every day?04:32
kikomthaddon, how's the reconfig looking?04:32
kikoI mean, will it be done by tomorrow?04:32
kiko(no pressure, just a question)04:32
SteveAmaybe we can stop staging rebuilding until we finish the reconfiguration04:32
danilosI'd love to have staging available for testing rollouts04:32
mthaddonkiko: just need the devel code sync-ed to the production servers so I can set up edge (that's the first stage) - the entire project won't be done by the end of the week04:33
stubWe need staging rebuilding every day during db thaw. Other than that probably not.04:33
mthaddonkiko: but I'll see what I can do about getting it done for the edge setup by the end of the week04:33
SteveAok, all done04:34
kikolet's talk again tomorrow mthaddon 04:34
mthaddonkiko: sure04:34
SteveAthanks mthaddon 04:34
SteveA * DBA report (stub)04:34
stubDB patch review call with Mark has been rescheduled for tomorrow, so there may be some hope for people who tried to sneak their branches in after the deadline.04:34
stubDowntime on Sunday went smoothly.04:34
stubNothing else to report.04:34
SteveAthanks stub 04:34
SteveA * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)04:35
Rinchenmatsubara, I haven't seen any status on your rt ticket. I've given the requisite amount of time for it's completion so I'll attempt to get that closed this week on your behalf.04:35
RinchenAnyone else blocked on RT tickets?04:35
kikohang on04:35
SteveAkiko: after Rinchen's item is finished04:35
kikostub, the last time we did some DB maintenence the number of OOPSes went down a lot04:35
matsubarathanks Rinchen. I've received your email about the time constraint.04:35
kikoI am curious as to why this didn't happen this time04:35
kikoSteveA, you have to wait for people to ask questions or else it's not a meeting :)04:35
daniloskiko: wasn't that gist -> gin, and now reverse, gin -> gist04:35
jtvkiko: in rosetta's case, a performance regression that had been held up because staging wasn't rebuilding04:35
stubkiko: Last time we did DB maintenance we did it because we had massive bloat in one particular table that was causing a lot of OOPSes.04:36
jtvkiko: nm, that's staging, sorry04:36
kikodanilos, no, I am referring to something we did a year ago to improve bug search performance04:36
kikostub, that's correct04:36
kikostub, and there was no bloating this time?04:36
mwhudsonRinchen: jml is waiting on 2858004:36
Rinchenthank mwhudson I'll go after that as well04:36
SteveAkiko: the bloat was caused by bad start-up code in launchpad04:36
stubkiko: Not much bloat. Bloat on the POMsgSet table was the worst, so things might have improved on the Rosetta end if bloat was an issue.04:36
SteveAkiko: stub fixed that code04:36
stubkiko: Although I suspect bloat not an issue in that particular case (as the table would have still been generally packed, just bloated with a load of unused space at one end)04:37
kikoare SteveA and stub talking about the same thing? :)04:37
danilosdoesn't sound like it, no :)04:37
kikostub, thanks.04:38
kikookay that clears up my questions04:38
=== kiko winks at SteveA
stubkiko: Elsewhere there was bloat, but just normal and I don't think it was a major contributer to OOPSes04:38
SteveAkiko: didn't know you cared ;-)04:38
SteveA * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)04:38
mrevellThe user-affecting issue I was planning to talk about this week has already been discussed in Matsubara's OOPS report - i.e. the intermittment timeout problem when searching bugs. 04:39
mrevellI've reported this as bug 131299, as mentioned in Matsubara's OOPS report. 04:39
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131299 in malone "Bug searches often time out" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13129904:39
mrevellI won't paste my original report, as it's all been covered already. However, I did want to ask if this problem is related to bug 107722.04:39
ubotuLaunchpad bug 107722 in launchpad "Improve accuracy of database timeouts" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107722 - Assigned to Stuart Bishop (stub)04:39
mrevellApologies for the now redundant report; I didn't think it would get raised before my part of the meeting.04:39
mrevellThank you, back to you SteveA.04:39
SteveAcould be related, in the sense that a request could take up to twice as long as it ought to have been able to04:40
stubIt could be related. Previously pages could take up to timeout*2 seconds to actually timeout.04:40
kikoI see!04:40
SteveAnonetheless, the bug searches timing out is an issue now04:40
kikowe could try increasing time out times04:40
kikohas anyone considered that? or would it make the system unbearably slow?04:40
SteveAstub, mthaddon: what's the current hard timeout in production?04:40
matsubaraSteveA: 25000 04:41
SteveA25 seconds to service a web request04:41
kikomatsubara, will that fix many of the oopses, or not really?04:41
SteveAI'm -1 on making that longer04:41
kikoSteveA, we /are/ the nexus of open source activity. :)04:41
SteveAwe should make it shorter if anything04:41
jtvWe should fix the timeouts we have now, and _then_ make it shorter04:41
matsubarakiko: the queries I tried on staging took ~30s to complete. 04:42
SteveAwe can try it for a couple of days though, moving it 10s each way04:42
SteveAand comparing results04:42
SteveAI have a feeling we may see counter intuitive things there04:42
mptI thought we had a soft timeout to warn us when things are taking too long04:43
mptin which case the hard timeout should be determined by our hardware and resulting ability to spend time on requests04:43
SteveAmpt: not as simple as that04:43
SteveAwe have a certain amount of concurrency available04:43
SteveA(number of app threads per server * num servers)04:44
kikompt, I think soft timeouts only serve as a warning if we have zero hard timeouts :) 04:44
SteveAwe have a certain amount of concurrency in the db server04:44
jamesha long running request affects performance of other concurrent requests04:44
mptSteveA, right, that's what I mean by "our hardware and resulting ability to spend time on requests"04:44
SteveAand that's to do with its number of processors and threads04:44
SteveAand reads vs writes in the database04:44
SteveAso, taking all that into account04:44
stubI think we can afford to increase the hard timeout from a load pov, but we need to do it gradually. Load on jubany is what we need to watch - not load on the appservers.04:44
SteveAwe may actually get less hard timeouts by reducing the hard timeout, depending on exactly what kind of queries are at the root of a problem04:45
SteveAit's a non-linear problem04:45
jtvstub: cpu or i/o load?04:45
stubjtv: both04:45
SteveAstub: if we increase the timeout time, we should also increase concurrency04:45
SteveAby adding more threads per app server04:45
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jtv...which means more cache pressure04:46
stubI think we have more than enough threads, but I don't think I have an actual metric to back that up04:46
SteveAyep, checking memory on app servers and jubany04:46
SteveAstub: think how to get such a metric please04:46
SteveAwe're over time04:46
SteveAwe have one more item04:46
SteveA * Blockers04:46
SteveAplease go ahead with team blockers04:46
matsubaraEAM: infrastructure BLOCKED: no04:46
jtvTEAM: Translations BLOCKED: no04:46
BjornTTEAM: bug tracker BLOCKED: no04:46
matsubaraTEAM: infrastructure BLOCKED: no04:46
mptTEAM: UI BLOCKED: no04:46
bigjoolsTEAM Soyuz BLOCKED no04:46
jskTEAM: Blueprint BLOCKED: no04:46
stubrequests per second and average time to serve a request will give us that. I don't think we know average request time.04:46
salgadoTEAM: Registry BLOCKED: no04:46
sinzuiTEAM Answer Tracker: BLOCKED no04:47
kikonobody blocked on me really?04:47
bacTEAM: Commercialization: BLOCKED no04:47
ddaaTEAM: Code BLOCKED: no04:47
SteveAstub: more like average transaction length04:47
carloskiko: well, we are supposed to have a meeting with you since long time ago...04:47
SteveAstub: of which avg request length is an approximation.  maybe you can get transaction lengths from the db logs?04:47
SteveAno blockers04:47
SteveAthanks everyone04:47
carlosis that something to note in 'BLOCKED' ?04:47
kikocarlos, yes04:48
kikoif you are waiting on something from somebody else04:48
kikothen yes04:48
carloskiko: ok, then we are blocked on agree our 1.1.8 tasks :-P04:48
=== jtv laughs
kikocarlos, let's do that tomorrow first thing 04:48
SteveAmeeting to discuss how we investigate hard timeout oopses in 12 mins please, on the hour04:48
jtvSteveA: where?04:48
carloskiko: that's fine for me04:48
carlosdanilos, jtv?04:48
SteveAstarting on irc, moving to voice if we need to04:48
jtvcarlos, kiko: what's that in UTC?04:49
daniloskiko: sure thing, by my standards04:49
kikoaround this time UTC, or up to 2 hours earlier depending on the weather04:49
kikooh hang on I might be on vacation tomorrow :)04:49
carloskiko: ok, thanks04:49
danilosjtv: it should be around 12:00-14:00 UTC, if I am guessing correctly04:49
danilosoh, I am :)04:49
carlosthen, next week?04:49
jtvoh great04:50
carlosdanilos: are you on vacation?04:50
daniloscarlos: not that I remember, no04:50
carlosdanilos: ok, so you are guessing well :-P04:50
jtvso... when?04:51
danilostomorrow around this time ;)04:51
jtvah, that's better04:51
kikojtv, danilos, carlos: if you will be around in 3h we can do it then04:52
kikoit may be more guaranteed than tomorrow04:52
jtvkiko: erm...04:52
carlosI think I could be around04:53
daniloskiko: I think I'll already be a mess in 3h04:53
danilosthough, I can be around if everybody else's in04:53
kikoyeah, I expected so04:53
kikodanilos, carlos, jtv: tell you what. I'll review and I'll email you about it. how about that?04:53
jtvkiko: that covers _one_ of our questions...04:54
=== carlos just wants to have it, he doesn't mind when it is
daniloskiko: no, no, emailing doesn't work... :)04:54
kikois there anything you'd like me to consider specially that won't be self-evident?04:54
daniloskiko: we've got several other things... so, in 3 hours time?04:54
carloskiko: well, we would like to talk also about our next sprint and phase2 optimisations04:54
kikoif jtv can't make it it's okay04:54
kikoI realize it's a crack time04:54
jtvSigh.  Okay, I'll be there.  Don't expect me to be sober.04:54
kikookay, but don't hit the bottle04:55
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danilosok, great... kiko, don't try to run away, it's scheduled at 18:00 UTC today! :P04:55
jtvkiko: hah, 's long as the bottle don't hit me04:56
jtvkiko: "a crack time"?  'sposeta be craick time04:58
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mikmor2Could anyone tell me how to open up a page like this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+subscribe for my project?05:42
mikmor2ie. I want people to be able to subscribe to bugs and answers in my project05:43
mikmor2Or do i have to create a maintained team...05:43
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kikomikmor2, what is your project?05:56
mikmor2kiko: https://launchpad.net/dru/05:58
kikomikmor2, okay. 05:58
kikomikmor2, you can specify an open team as your bug contact in the bugs tab05:58
=== EdwinGrubbs is now known as Edwin-lunch
kikomikmor2, that way anyone can get bug notifications.05:58
kikomikmor2, in the answers tab anyone can subscribe as an answer contact.05:59
mikmor2ok, i'll do that then. thanks!05:59
kikoyou're welcome!05:59
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seb128is launchpad timeouting a lot on searches for some days a known issue?06:13
Hobbseeseb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/13129906:14
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131299 in malone "Bug searches often time out" [High,In progress]   - Assigned to Bjrn Tillenius (bjornt)06:14
seb128Hobbsee: thanks06:14
kikoHobbsee, seb128: we're working on it -- I'm very concerned06:41
seb128kiko: thanks06:43
Hobbseekiko: great06:44
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roshan_sCan someone help me import my GPG key into my Launchpad account? I've published my key to keyserver.ubuntu.com, and I can query it fine, but entering the fingerprint into Launchpad says it couldn't import the key. I'm somewhat new to GPG, though I understand public-key cryptography06:51
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kikoroshan_s, what's your key id06:54
roshan_sIs that the LSB of the fingerprint? It's this: 2BDF897D06:55
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kikoroshan_s, yeah. I can see it is in fact there.06:59
kikoroshan_s, what happens when you go to add that key to your account?07:00
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roshan_skiko: I get this error: Launchpad could not import your OpenPGP key.     *  Did you enter your complete fingerprint correctly? A fingerprint is a long sequence of numbers and letters. You should use the output produced by the command: ...    * Have you published your key to a public key server? You can do that by by entering in a terminal:07:01
roshan_s          gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys 07:01
roshan_s    * Has your key been automatically mirrored to the Ubuntu key server? Keys sometimes take up to an hour to be synchronized between servers. You can check if it has by querying the Ubuntu key server directly. If it hasn't, you can publish directly to our server by entering in a terminal: ...07:01
kikoroshan_s, looks like a negative caching bug.07:03
kikomatsubara-lunch, cprov-lunch: do any of you know how to cope with this?07:03
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roshan_skiko: If it helps, I published the key about 10 hours ago07:05
kikocprov, his key /is/ on the keyserver, but I can't get to it from launchpad07:05
cprovroshan_s: your key ID, please ?07:06
roshan_scprov: 2BDF897D07:06
cprovkiko: this key is not present in our internal keyserver, ping elmo for further debug.07:08
cprovkiko: or do you want me to do it ?07:08
kikocprov, if you could please07:08
kikoI would like to understand if this is an ongoing problem07:08
cprovkiko: okay07:08
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kikoroshan_s, can you try again please?07:25
roshan_skiko: It worked now. It says it has sent me the email. Thanks!07:26
kikoroshan_s, rock on!07:26
roshan_skiko: ... and the key has been confirmed. I made some packages for REVU, so now I can get on with the rest of the process. Thanks again!07:29
kikoroshan_s, sorry for the inconvenience, it's a problem with our internal keyserver's syncing. elmo offered to put work into monitoring it automatically, so thank him. 07:30
roshan_sThanks elmo, and cprov07:31
=== kiko winks at cprov
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=== Topic for #launchpad: Launchpad - https://launchpad.net/ | Next developer meeting: Thu 16 Aug 2007, 1400UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) | launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com (wiki:MailingLists) | Launchpad help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
=== Topic (#launchpad): set by mpt at Thu Aug 9 16:04:36 2007
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mikmor2Can I create a subproject easily?10:46
mikmor2Hmm.. could someone tell me how I turn my project into a super-project?11:12
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Kmossome LP admin can remove https://launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/avahi-tracker , there is already https://launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/avahi12:07
Kmosand this one too12:13

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