pittimathiaz: I've seen it before, and it makes sense to me at least12:13
pittimathiaz: I'll sync it right now then, just in case12:13
Riddellpitti: is the pkgmaintainermangler error fixed?12:14
pittiRiddell: yep12:14
pittiRiddell: I gave back and rebuilt the important stuff for CDs12:14
mjg59seb128: There's something up with epiphany. When I close a tab, it doesn't kill the running plugins12:14
pittibut there is certainly some fallout from this12:14
mjg59Firefox is fine12:14
Riddellpitti: could you give back adept too (for fixed --dist-upgrade)12:14
dendrobatespitti: I don't want to hold up tribe 4 for it.12:14
seb128mjg59: bug #12520912:15
ubotuLaunchpad bug 125209 in epiphany-browser "Flash video in Epiphany doesn't die when browser is closed" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12520912:15
pittiRiddell: done12:15
mjg59seb128: Ah, thanks12:15
pittidendrobates: depends on how serious this is deemed12:15
mjg59seb128: It is indeed the favicon-fallback plugin12:16
mathiazpitti: I don't thinks it's such a serious bug.12:16
dendrobatespitti: it is an embarrassment, to say the least.12:16
mathiazpitti: it doesn't break apache.12:16
mathiazdendrobates, pitti: yes. it's just annoying.12:17
pitti-> I don't see a sync request for apache2 here12:17
mathiazdendrobates, pitti: and I can be disturbing for enduser.12:17
mathiazpitti: bug 13111812:19
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131118 in apache2 "Sync apache2 from debian unstable (2.2.4-3)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13111812:19
mathiazpitti: I've subscribed ubuntu-main-sponsor.12:19
pittimathiaz: ah, good12:19
pittimathiaz: "No Ubuntu changes" -> no relevant ones any more12:20
pittimathiaz: synced and closed12:20
dendrobatesmathiaz: mdz wants a custom page to load anyway.  We need to get someone to write some php.12:20
cjwatsonpitti: back now. I can have a look at oem-config nowish if I still have time ...12:20
mathiazdendrobates: hum... Is php installed by default ?12:20
cjwatsonpitti: I didn't fix rescue mode, and I didn't realise anyone else had ...12:20
pittidendrobates: so if you want, I'll speed up the building and build new server ISOs12:20
pitticjwatson: wb12:21
mathiazdendrobates: it's not that easy anyway...12:21
cjwatsonbdmurray: pong12:21
dendrobatespitti: I think that would be best.12:21
pitticjwatson: indeed I need to rebuild ubuntu ISOs anyway for the oversizedness12:21
mathiazdendrobates: there has been a lot of debate over the default apache web page.12:21
pitticjwatson: so, fixing those is highly appreciated (either disabling OEM, or even better, actually make it boot)12:21
pitticjwatson: does Kubuntu/edubuntu/xubuntu also have that OEM mode?12:21
ajmitchdendrobates: what sort of thing does he want on the php page?12:21
cjwatsonmikmor2: a few directories are bind-mounted at various points - /cdrom, /proc, /dev, maybe /rofs12:21
Riddellkubuntu does have oem12:22
cjwatsonkubuntu is certainly supposed to12:22
mathiazdendrobates: there is a bug in the debian tracker about it.12:22
pittiRiddell: do you want live CDs rebuilt for that?12:22
dendrobatesajmitch: I don't know, for sure.12:22
Riddellpitti: yeah, may as well12:22
cjwatsonpitti: everything but edubuntu and server has oem-config12:22
mathiazdendrobates, ajmitch: it depends what the target is.12:22
pitticjwatson: ok, then we at least don't waste the current edubuntu build12:22
ajmitchmathiaz: I'm assuming this is only for the LAMP setup?12:23
bdmurraycjwatson: I thought I heard you mention a design decision as to why "vga=" isn't used with grub.  Is that right?12:23
cjwatsonpitti: just rsyncing desktop now12:23
dendrobatesmathiaz: It is on the server tasks page, and mdz asked the status.12:23
mathiazajmitch: well... I don't know exactly what mdz has in mind.12:23
cjwatsonbdmurray: vga= isn't used because that makes vesafb be used which makes suspend/resume a very sad panda12:23
mathiazdendrobates: ah ok...12:23
stgraberpitti, cjwatson: ok, I'll add for Kubuntu as well, what about Xubuntu ?12:23
cjwatsonstgraber: Xubuntu has OEM mode, though I'm not sure anyone cares ...12:24
mathiazdendrobates, ajmitch: there has been a lot of debate about what should be put in the default index page.12:24
pittistgraber: I don't think that it's worth the trouble for T4 TBH12:24
cjwatsonas in, haven't heard of any OEMs shipping it. it'll just be the same as Ubuntu's anyway12:24
ajmitchserver tasks is assigned to soren, right?12:24
dendrobatesmathiaz: we can discuss it in the next server meeting.12:24
mathiazdendrobates, ajmitch: be it for the LAMP install or the default install.12:24
ajmitchmathiaz: I imagine there would be :)12:24
cjwatsonbdmurray: IIRC because vesafb doesn't know how to reprogram the card's registers on resume12:24
stgraberpitti: ok, so we'll have it for Ubuntu and Kubuntu now, I can still add others later12:25
mathiazdendrobates, ajmitch: every know and then there is a end user that shows up and claims that apache/debian/ubuntu has hacked its server12:25
pittimathiaz: lol12:25
ajmitchmathiaz: they make for funny stories online, but yes, I understand the problem12:25
mathiazdendrobates, ajmitch: because their ISP/web hosting has messed up the configuration of the httpd server.12:25
ajmitchpitti: look up the one about centos12:26
bdmurraycjwatson: hmm, does that pertain to bug 129910 at all?12:26
ubotuLaunchpad bug 129910 in Ubuntu "tty[1-6]  are active but display nothing in Gutsy" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12991012:26
dendrobatesmathias ajmitch:  I know :) but we can't design to the lowest common denominator.12:26
mathiazajmitch: yeah - that was the last one... last year I think.12:26
cjwatsonbdmurray: yes, it's entirely possible that removing vga= will fix it12:26
dendrobatespitti: How long will the rebuild take?12:27
cjwatsonbdmurray: it's rather odd that they have locale=es_ES in their boot options12:27
dendrobatespitti: of the iso?12:27
cjwatsonthat's supposed to be filtered out12:27
pittidendrobates: apache2 doesn't take that long, but the publishing will12:27
cjwatson... oh, bugger12:28
pittidendrobates: all in all, two hours maybe12:28
cjwatsonthat's definitely a bug, I think ubiquity needs to ship /etc/preseed.aliases12:28
bdmurraycjwatson: right, they admit as much so I was wondering if it was dismissable12:28
dendrobatesmathiaz: we need to retest either tonight or tomorrow morning.  I need to get my sparc setup anyway.12:28
mathiazpitti: ok. So we'll have to start over to cd testing.12:29
cjwatsonbdmurray: we started filtering out vga= from the options set on the installed system in the dapper installer12:29
mathiazpitti: when will you release tribe-4 ?12:29
cjwatsonbdmurray: so an upgrade from before then could still have it12:29
cjwatsonbdmurray: it seems like a valid kernel bug though12:29
pittimathiaz: tomorrow afternoon (before meeting) if all goes well12:29
mathiazdendrobates: I'm not sure if we'll have time tomorrow morning.12:29
mathiazdendrobates: morning for us.12:29
cjwatsonbdmurray: vga= is one of the more common options people fiddle with, even if it does break suspend/resume (and of course lots of people don't care about that)12:30
cjwatson"I want higher resolution on my virtual terminals" is actually a fairly common thing to want if you live at VTs12:30
dendrobatesmathiaz: I can get started pretty early.  We'll do the best we can.12:30
mjg59cjwatson: Ben made vesafb a builtin. I suspect this may have broken something in the framebuffer startup script - I'm waiting for him to fix it before looking into it too closely12:31
cjwatsonmjg59: builtin? interesting12:31
cjwatsonbdmurray: please reassign to the kernel for now12:31
mathiazdendrobates: ok. I'll test the i386 iso later today then.12:31
bdmurraycjwatson: okay, thanks for all of the information12:31
dendrobatesmathiaz: I have to help feed and put babies to bed.  I'll be back in a few hours to do the amd64 tests.12:31
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cjwatsonbdmurray: np, an interesting bug12:33
pittiogra, LaserJock, stgraber: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/20070808/ (far from being oversized)12:33
LaserJocksaw it12:33
LaserJockpitti: what the? I wonder what happened, we dropped es, xh, fr, de lang packs and amd64 dropped 55MB12:35
=== cjwatson sees why desktop oem might be bust
cjwatsonI, er, kind of forgot boot=casper12:35
pittiLaserJock: no idea12:36
LaserJockpitti: hmm, well at least they're under :-)12:36
stgraberogra: want something specifc to be tested on Edubuntu server ?12:37
stgraberpitti: "panel encountered a problem with loading "OAFIID:GNOME_FastUserSwitchAplet"" known issue ?12:38
pittistgraber: no, that worked for me12:38
stgraberpitti: just got that at first session open time on edu server12:39
cjwatsonpitti: oem> if you F6 it and add boot=casper and splash before --, it should get further12:41
stgraberogra, pitti: no fast-user-switching-applet installed on Edubuntu12:41
seb128stgraber, pitti: that's because the applet has been added to the panel and is not installed12:41
stgraberogra, pitti: but enabled on gnome default session, so we have that error12:41
seb128fast-user-switching-applet should be installed on edubuntu12:42
pittiseb128: does it really make sense there? last time you said no12:42
pittiand on a thin client that sounds reasonable12:42
cjwatsonmikmor2: I just reread; during target-config, I don't think you have any shared directories. Any particular reason for asking?12:42
LaserJockI don't think it's in the seeds12:42
pittiLaserJock: no, it's not12:43
seb128pitti: I didn't think about the panel profile when replying some days ago12:43
seb128I think it would be easier to add it to edubuntu and to make the applet exit if the config is a ltsp one12:43
cjwatsonevand: do you think it would make sense to disable migration-assistant in ubiquity's oem mode?12:44
cjwatsonI can't imagine an OEM wanting it ...12:44
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alex-weejok so i installed to my USB disk12:45
pittiseb128: ah, so you can't tell the panel to load an applet only if it's present?12:45
cjwatsonpitti: desktop oem boot options fixed for your next build12:45
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pitticjwatson: thanks12:45
cjwatsonpitti: I'm testing it now to see if I can save time12:45
alex-weejbut i foolishly changed the grub installation device from (hd0) to (hd3) thinking that it corresponded to kernel sdd12:45
alex-weejso ubiquity crashed12:46
alex-weejor rather gave up with a "fatal error" installing grub12:46
seb128pitti: no, it'll display an error if it can't load it12:46
cjwatsonit's a known ubiquity bug that it doesn't validate that against grub's device.map12:46
pitticjwatson: sorry, can't test right now, I have two installs running already12:46
cjwatsonpitti: not a problem, I'm doing it12:46
alex-weejcjwatson: how can i get this installed? grub setup refuses to accept (hd0) anyway12:46
pittimy hd sounds like a sawmill12:46
alex-weejpitti: record it and make some techno12:47
cjwatsonalex-weej: have a peek in /target/boot/grub/device.map to see what grub thinks the mapping is12:47
alex-weejcjwatson: /target was unmounted12:47
cjwatsonalex-weej: mount it again12:47
cjwatsonit's all still there12:47
alex-weejcjwatson: it thinks /dev/sdd is (hd2)12:47
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cjwatsonalex-weej: right, there you go12:48
alex-weejgrub> setup (hd2)12:48
alex-weejError 12: Invalid device requested12:48
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alex-weejgrub> setup (hd2,12:48
alex-weejError 21: Selected disk does not exist12:48
cjwatsonalex-weej: did you chroot to /target to do that?12:48
alex-weejcjwatson: no12:48
cjwatsondo so12:48
cjwatsonthere won't be a /boot/grub/device.map in the live session12:48
cjwatsonso grub is unlikely to have device mappings there12:49
cjwatsonat least, they might differ12:49
alex-weejnow grub doesn't know any devices in the chrooted env12:49
cjwatsonmount --bind /dev /target/dev from outside12:49
cjwatsonoh, and mount --bind /proc /target/proc too12:49
cjwatson(ubiquity does both)12:49
alex-weejhm. grub> setup (hd2)12:50
alex-weejError 12: Invalid device requested12:50
cjwatsonubiquity hadn't finished with the target system yet though12:50
cjwatsonhadn't removed extra junk packages or copied logs12:51
alex-weejcan i get it to resume?12:51
cjwatsonTBH, it might be easier to start over :-(12:51
cjwatsonno, sorry12:51
alex-weejok just to check for sure12:51
cjwatsonwe do need to add that validation rather urgently12:51
cjwatsonor at least make it reask rather than bail out12:51
alex-weejreask for sure12:51
cjwatsonvalidation's tricky 'cos we don't have a device.map earlier on12:51
cjwatson(I hate grub. Part #47 in a series of #939)12:52
alex-weejit's not the first time i've been caught by this. one of my less technical but technical-enough-to-think-he-knows-what-he's-doing friends had a multidisk setup that ubiquity crapped out on12:52
cjwatsonsame thing, or something else?12:52
pittimathiaz: I invalidated the server CDs now12:52
alex-weejcjwatson: same thing but not with an external disk12:52
pittimathiaz: (in the tracker)12:52
alex-weejso just to check, i'm installing to sdd, what device string should i give ubiquity to use for grub?12:53
alex-weejit's defaulting to (hd0)12:53
mathiazpitti: ok. I'll wait for the new isos and redo all the test then.12:53
cjwatsonalex-weej: you can give it /dev/sdd, you know ....12:54
stgraberpitti: About edubuntu, are you going the ISOs with a fix soon or shall I continue testing those ones ? (fix being adding fusa to the seed or find a way to make gnome not load it)12:54
alex-weejcjwatson: magic.12:54
=== alex-weej dives in again
cjwatsongrub-install notices that and converts12:55
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pittistgraber: meh, that's going to take two hours at least; not sure wheter we should fix it for Tribe 412:55
alex-weejcjwatson: sure there's no sneaky way to get it to skip the file copying? :/12:55
pittistgraber: 'make gnome not load it' is out of question for T4, I'm afraid; seeding would be ok, but it needs to go to -desktop (so it takes more like three hours to get new CDs)12:56
stgraberpitti: the Desktop one being probably affected as well, it'll be the first thing a Tribe-4 users will see on the live environment12:56
alex-weejwhen is Tribe 4 due?12:56
pittistgraber: oh, right, servers, too?12:56
cjwatsonalex-weej: nope, sorry12:56
stgraberpitti: I'm on the server one currently12:56
alex-weejcjwatson: ok, i'll watch some Big Brother Live12:56
pittistgraber: please continue testing, though, just to find more serious bugs12:56
cjwatsonalex-weej: tomorrow, or today depending on your timezone12:57
pittistgraber: ok, I'll prepare a seed update12:57
alex-weejcjwatson: ah ffs. only reason i am messing with tribe 3 is to do QA12:57
pittiseb128: that's just fast-user-switch-applet, right?12:57
cjwatsonalex-weej: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule has the dates12:57
seb128pitti: yes12:57
alex-weejsuppose i shoulda checked that first.12:57
stgraberpitti: everything running edubuntu-desktop must be affected (desktop, server desktop and of course thin clients :))12:57
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alex-weejright i'll just get going with that tomorrow then12:58
alex-weejtime to reboot my crufty ex-Edgy upgrade12:58
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pittistgraber, LaserJock: ok, seeds changed, edubuntu-meta updating, invalidating CD images in tracker01:00
LaserJockpitti: k01:00
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stgraberogra: we still have a nbd-server crash reported by apport01:01
pittistgraber: please file it, but it's too late to fix for Tribe 401:02
stgraberogra: it's the usual init.d script which segfaults (when it shouldn't even be run as we are using inetd ...)01:02
stgraberpitti: it must already have been filed as we had it with Tribe-3 :)01:02
pittistgraber: hm, it wasn't a milestoned bug01:03
stgraberhmm, so maybe it was fixed and a new version of nbd-server introduced it again, will check01:03
pittixubuntu desktop CDs ready for testing01:04
cjwatsonpitti: desktop oem seems largely ok except for the wart that autologin and such isn't configured01:06
cjwatsoneasy to fix, but not for tribe-4 of course01:06
pitticjwatson: great01:06
alex-weejpitti: is there some kind of ETA on ubuntu tribe 4?01:06
pittialex-weej: tomorrow01:07
pitticjwatson: if you have a fix right now, it's possible to sneak it in01:07
alex-weejpitti: it's already 9 Aug in Europe/London :P01:07
pitticjwatson: but better not, I figure, if it's not essential01:07
pittialex-weej: here, too, but I still have 23 hours :)01:07
cjwatsonpitti: I don't have it right now01:08
alex-weejpitti: are we just waiting for the images? (i.e. are the archives updated?)01:09
pittialex-weej: need to get a fixed apache2 and edubuntu-meta, and rebuild some images01:09
alex-weejoh ok01:09
cjwatsonhmm, wonder if there's a convenient python equivalent of chroot /target [ -f /etc/gdm/gdm-cdd.conf ] 01:10
cjwatsons'pose I could just use os.path.lexists01:11
cjwatsonbut no, I need the actual path. hmm.01:11
cjwatsonthink I'll need to clone-and-hack os.path.realpath01:12
pittidoes anyone feel like writing a tribe 4 wiki page, with the data points from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/2007-August/002167.html?01:14
pittiapparently Corey doesn't have time, he didn't answer to my mail01:14
stgraberpitti: OpenOffice 2.3 should also be mentioned imo01:16
pittiand ubiquity OEM01:16
cjwatsonmm, maybe01:16
cjwatsonstill a bit raw, not setting up the oem user correctly01:17
cjwatsonbut I guess it's ok to mention, the ubiquity side works fine01:17
cjwatsonyou have to know to run oem-config-prepare though01:17
=== pitti adds some links and TODOs to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe4
cjwatsonit doesn't tell you and the icon that was supposed to be installed isn't01:17
cjwatson(already fixed in bzr, I think)01:18
pitticjwatson: that should go to the wiki page and release notes then01:18
cjwatsonmight be better to announce in tribe-5 instead with fewer caveats?01:18
pitticjwatson: WFM (we just have the gfxboot entry now)01:19
pitticjwatson: but we can leave that for the adventurous :)01:19
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Riddellcalc: openoffice still doesn't start for me in Kubuntu tribe 4 candidate, despite pitti adding the openoffice.org-gtk larks01:24
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Riddellat least the splash screen is back to blue though :)01:25
pittiRiddell: yeah, we noticed; that's a release-note thing, I'm afraid01:25
Riddellpitti: same in ubuntu too?01:25
pittiRiddell: no, it has always worked there01:25
pittiRiddell: installing -gtk and -kde on Ubuntu works01:25
stgraberwhy isn't ogra around ...01:26
pittiRiddell: calc already isolated the responsible library, but AFAIK there's no real fix yet01:26
pittistgraber: he wanted to go to bed early and get up early01:26
Amaranthalex-weej: Can you be less... hostile in your bug reports?01:26
alex-weejAmaranth: excuse me?01:26
stgraber"This workstation isn't authorized to connect to server" ...01:26
Amaranthalex-weej: 'Nonsense!'01:28
pittistgraber: ?01:28
alex-weejAmaranth: i can if you tell me what i've said that seems "hostile"01:28
alex-weejAmaranth: ah come on, that's not hostility :/01:28
stgraberpitti: error message I get when trying to login from a thin client01:28
Amaranthalex-weej: That bug is marked as triaged, that means we know what the problem is.01:28
pittistgraber: that sounds...serious01:28
Amaranthalex-weej: No need for a 'me too' post anyway.01:28
stgraberpitti: I'm rebuilding the thin client image adding a root passwd so I can see what actually happens01:28
alex-weejAmaranth: i was adding information. it's a two pixel no-mans land.01:28
stgraberpitti: it's better than with previous ldm, at least we have an error message :) (even if it doesn't really tell us anything interesting)01:29
Riddellcalc: I installed openoffice.org-style-tango openoffice.org-gnome openoffice.org-base and now it start up01:29
Riddellnot sure which one of those is actually responsible01:29
pittiRiddell: -gnome probably01:29
pittiRiddell: can you uninstall -tango to check? -base should be there anyway, I figure?01:30
Amaranthalex-weej: I'll fix it tomorrow01:30
alex-weejAmaranth: i guess you know how much i hate compiz anyway so that probably tainted your perception of the tone of my comment a little bit :P01:30
pittiRiddell: or don't you install it deliberately?01:30
Amaranthalex-weej: Could be.01:30
Riddellpitti: does indeed seem to be openoffice.org-gnome01:31
Riddellpitti: -base we stopping including a couple releases ago in favour of kexi which is much better, but then we removed kexi lsat release since it was taking up space01:32
LaserJockpitti: the Edubuntu Server Addon CD didn't need to be rebuilt I don't think, are the Server and Server Addon CDs built separately01:33
pittiLaserJock: no, it's one step01:33
LaserJockk, just wondered01:33
stgraberpitti: hmm, this time it let login ...01:33
pittistgraber: heisenbug?01:34
LaserJockpitti: how long before Edubuntu Desktop gets rebuild, roughly?01:34
pittiLaserJock: about 90 minutes until live is ready, 60 for server01:35
pittiLaserJock: oh, add 15 minutes, current publisher isn't finished yet01:35
LaserJockpitti: hmm, I wondered it it'd be worth it to add back in at least one or two lang packs01:35
stgraberpitti: but ldm didn't reload after logout (so black screen after logout) ...01:36
LaserJockbut maybe it's just as well to leave that until after Tribe 401:36
LaserJockI don't want to waste a build run on miscalculating lang packs01:36
pittiLaserJock: can do01:37
pittiLaserJock: I have my script here, and I'll be cautious; which langs are the most important for you?01:37
LaserJockwell, we had es de fr xh01:37
LaserJockon amd6401:38
LaserJockI want to say es and fr, but maybe if I leave out de ogra'll be mad at me ;-)01:39
Kmosand pt ?01:39
Kmosit's one of the most talked in the world01:40
stgraberpitti: ok, found the actual bug with ldm, it doesn't disconnect from SSH on session logout, so it doesn't reload and I'm stuck on a nice black screen :)01:41
LaserJockpitti: if you can do es de fr on amd64 I think that should be good, I'm not sure how much the fast-user-switch stuff will take but I figure it should work out01:42
pittiLaserJock: I leave the server CDs alone; i386 is full, and amd64 not that important for tribe, I figure01:42
stgraberpitti: killing ssh by hand seems to be the fix01:42
pittiLaserJock: dependencies look like you already have everything01:43
pittiLaserJock: and it adds 600 kB01:43
LaserJockpitti: right01:44
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stgraberLaserJock: Were you at last edubuntu meeting (today) ? Has ogra said something about ldm2 (like a new version coming but not uploaded yet) ?01:45
pittiLaserJock: adding es will fill up i38601:45
pittiLaserJock: you can have one more01:46
LaserJockstgraber: no, it's 5am for me01:46
pittiLaserJock: (on amd64)01:46
LaserJockpitti: de I guess :-)01:46
pittiLaserJock: depends on your target audience, I don't know01:46
pittiLaserJock: .de isn't a particularly popular edubuntu target, I think01:46
LaserJockpitti: ok, fr then, although I think many of our testers know German01:47
pittiLaserJock: pt?01:47
LaserJockwell, we had es, fr, de, and xh before01:47
LaserJockI don't know if I should go beyond that01:48
Kmospt is more talked than es or fr01:48
pittino, just one more01:48
Kmosbrazil talks pt, spanish people understand pt, portugal01:48
LaserJockpitti: I mean, beyond the langs that were already there, I was just picking amongst the old ones, so no pt01:48
Kmosand so many other countries01:48
LaserJockI honestly don't think it's going to matter for Tribe401:49
pittiLaserJock: ok, just adding spanish now01:50
pittisecond publisher running now, for apache+edubuntu-meta binaries01:54
mathiazpitti: kwel. Server isos should be ready in an hour or so ?01:55
pittiRiddell: do you actually want new Kubuntu CDs for OEM when we don't advertise it for Tribe4 yet?01:55
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pittimathiaz: yes01:55
cjwatsonKmos: our standard ordering was calculated from published speaker numbers as far as I know, and es, bn, hi, ar are all ahead of pt there01:55
cjwatsonKmos: Edubuntu typically deviates from our usual ordering though, since it has a weird distribution01:55
ajmitchhence xh?01:56
cjwatsonKmos: we do not want to get into language wars01:56
pitticjwatson: new standard ordering is en, es, xh, pt, de, fr, bn, hi, ar, ru, zh, though, due to considering input support01:56
Riddellpitti: what's broken about it currently?01:56
pittiRiddell: just the OEM gfxboot thing01:56
cjwatsonajmitch: xh is an anomaly because Canonical paid for the translation ages ago, but since it's so out of date the language pack size is tiny and it hardly matters01:56
cjwatsonpitti: oh. update http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/langpacksize please :-)01:57
cjwatson(preferably with a justification so we remember)01:57
pitticjwatson: I guess I should replace it with a symlink to current bzr head on codebrowse or so :)01:57
LaserJockah, that would be nice, I was using it this morning :-)01:58
Riddellpitti: lets not bother then01:58
pittiLaserJock, cjwatson: updated my script on people for now02:00
Kmoscjwatson: ok..02:00
KmosI think the most spoken, are the first.. but that not the rules here.02:01
cjwatsonKmos: much harder to judge objectively though02:04
Kmoscjwatson: good night02:05
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pittibye cjwatson02:09
LaserJockpitti: you gonna be up until the new disks are done?02:10
pittiLaserJock: probably, unless I fall off my chair :)02:11
pittigosh, I'm sitting in front of that thing for 20 hours now02:11
sistpotygn8 everyone02:11
pittibye sistpoty02:11
brycepitti :-/02:11
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sistpotygn8 pitti, and good luck with staying awake ;)02:12
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pittiiwj: heh, the fsck bug you reported is the one I asked you to take a look at recently :)02:23
=== pitti duplicates
pittiyay, I removed 2 MB langpacks from ubuntu desktop amd64, and got 4 MB more free02:29
pittiubuntu desktop CDs available for testing02:30
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ArneGoetjepitti: finally, eh? now you can get some sleep?02:33
pittiArneGoetje: not yet :/02:33
pittiwe still need new server CDs, and the entire range of edubuntu02:34
ArneGoetjepitti: and all today?02:34
pittiand due to an inadvertent key press from me triggering another ubuntu livefs build, I need to wait for half an hour before I can start the edubuntu ones02:34
pittiArneGoetje: yes02:34
brycepitti, congrats :-)02:35
Riddellstgraber: if I'm looking at the results of a Kubuntu CD in isotesting, then click on "build list" it takes me back to the Ubuntu list rather than the Kubuntu list02:35
bryce(er, for getting the desktop CD's ready, shucks about the extra keypress, guess that happens after 20+ hrs)02:36
pittibryce: the new livefs build won't manifest itself in new ISOs on cdimage, don't worry :)02:37
pittiit's just wasted time02:37
mathiazpitti: which is very annoying after 20hrs of sitting in front of your computer...02:38
=== bryce nods
Riddellpitti: all 4 kubuntu CDs work, except for known bugs (live verify CD broken, openoffice broken)02:38
pittiRiddell: ok, good02:39
pitti... ish02:39
pittiRiddell: verify is curious02:39
StevenKOpenoffice is still broken?02:39
pittiworkaround with adding -gtk wasn't enough02:39
pittiit needs -gnome actually02:39
StevenKNeat. :-(02:39
pittibut that carries heavy dependencies, I figure02:39
pittiRiddell: please unseed ooo-gtk from kubuntu, before we forget about it02:40
pittimeh, on the ubuntu live, deskbar applet immediately crashes and gives bug-buddy02:43
pittiI didn't see that before02:43
pittimathiaz: new ubuntu server isos up02:52
mathiazpitti: great. thanks.02:53
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pittican anyone please test the latest desktop and check whether deskbar-applet crashes right at start?02:54
pittidendrobates: wb02:54
pittidendrobates: new server images just arrived02:54
dendrobatespitti: great timing02:54
dendrobatespitti: I'll get to testing02:55
dendrobateser.. downloading. :)02:55
pittistgraber: new edubuntu servers up02:55
pittiogra: ^02:55
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mikmor2cjwatson: Are you awake by chance?02:57
pittimikmor2: not any more02:57
ArneGoetjepitti: where can I download the new images?02:58
pittiArneGoetje: the iso tester tracker has links02:59
pittiArneGoetje: if you already have older CDs, you probably want to use rsync or jigdo, unless you have insane bandwidth :)03:00
ArneGoetjepitti: where can I find it?03:00
mathiazArneGoetje: https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/isotesting/03:00
ArneGoetjemathiaz: thanks03:00
pittiArneGoetje: thanks for testing03:01
pittiArneGoetje: iso tracker has rsync commands etc, too03:01
mathiazArneGoetje: this is the website used to track the testing effort.03:01
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pittiok, edubuntu lives are building03:03
evandcjwatson: I'm fine with that03:05
dobeyif i want to rebuild the kernel on my system, with a couple of extra patches, what's the preferred method for that? patching the source in /usr/src/linux* and doing make kpackage or whatever it is?03:06
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iwjpitti: Indeed, I remember the question.  But I couldn't remember if it was actually a bug report so I thought I'd file it in case it wasn't.03:12
iwjHope that's not too annoying.  I'll take a look at it properly after FF.03:12
pittiiwj: not at all03:13
ArneGoetjepitti: can I use the rsync script for the daily builds? Or is that different from iso tracker?03:13
pittiArneGoetje: yes, rsync works well for both desktops and also alternates03:13
pittiArneGoetje: the iso tracker gives you the correct rune; if the local file name does not match, you have to specify it instead of '.', of course03:13
ArneGoetjepitti: ok03:14
pittiso, this deskbar applet thing still crashes very often for me03:15
pittiI'll try the live CD on real iron and then fall to bed03:15
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pitticu tomorrow, and happy testing so far03:15
pittiwb LaserJock03:15
pittiLaserJock: edubuntu server is there, desktop ETA 20 minutes03:15
pittibye everyone03:15
mathiazpitti: see ya.03:15
iwjpitti: Sleep well.03:15
LaserJockthanks pitti03:15
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LaserJockanybody know what "Printing Notification Icon" is?06:55
RAOFIsn't that the print queue icon for the notification area?06:56
fabbionemorning everybody06:58
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LaserJockRAOF: but why is it in the menu?06:59
LaserJockthat's kinda weird06:59
calcRiddell: it starting or not seems to be due to when gtk gets properly initialized which is probably why it sometimes works for kubuntu users and sometimes not07:02
LaserJockmorning fabbione07:02
calcRiddell: it looks like libvclplug_gtk680li.so probably does proper gtk initialization and allows ooo to run on some systems07:02
RAOFLaserJock: Absolutely no idea.07:03
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calchttp://kerneltrap.org/node/14148 <- any thoughts about having ubuntu default to noatime,nodiratime ?07:39
calcclaims in the thread are that it can speed up disk io by a huge amount on things like kernel compiles, etc07:39
ScottKcalc: "Makes kernel compiling faster" doesn't sound like a common enough use case to support by default....07:40
calcScottK: the claim specifically for kernel compile time was 40% increase in speed07:42
calcthey don't include much in the way of benchmarks in the thread other than that part07:42
=== calc thinks he will see what it does for ooo
RAOFActually, they do.07:43
calc"People just need to know about the performance differences - very few07:43
calcrealise its more than a fraction of a percent. I'm sure Gentoo will use07:43
calcrelatime the moment anyone knows its > 5% 8)"07:43
calcrelatime actually writes out atime still but in a different manner, turning it off entirely does even less io07:43
calcRAOF: ah maybe i haven't read that far yet07:43
RAOFA guy with a thinkpad sees ~10-20% speed increase on kernel compile, from memory.07:43
calcits a fairly long page07:44
calchmm ingo claims ubuntu already does that07:44
calcbut its not in my fstab07:44
ScottKYou got the special "Make calc wait on OOO" edition.07:45
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ScottKcalc: I guess I'd want to understand better why someone would care about atimes before thinking to seriously about changing the default.07:57
keescookwell that's ugly.  nanosleep doesn't return while in the initramfs08:02
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doko_good morning08:06
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LaserJockmorning doko08:07
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ArneGoetjedoko: moin08:27
dokoArneGoetje: moin08:27
ArneGoetjedoko: about the sun-java6-bin issue...08:31
ArneGoetjeI think it would be best if we path the fontconfig config file provided in the package and replace the Japanese font entry of IPAMona with SazanamiMincho. just like in the sun-java5-bin package.08:32
dokoArneGoetje: ok, will do that, probably not this week. more interesting is that we make these changes to the coming icedtea/openjdk08:34
ArneGoetjedoko: ?08:34
dokoArneGoetje: the free "sun-java7"08:34
ArneGoetjedoko: ah...08:35
ArneGoetjedoko: personally I currently use the java5 package, because java6 doesn't work with my java applications08:35
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ArneGoetjedoko: but one more change we could probably make to the fontconfig file in the sun java packages: for the Korean fonts, it currently referrs to the Baekmuk Batang font in the ttf-baekmuk package. However, the UnBatang and UnBatangBold fonts from the ttf-unfonts packages are 1. smaller in size and 2. more beautiful. :)08:38
dokoArneGoetje: are those free as well?08:40
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Hobbseegreetings all08:48
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Hobbseegeser: no.  i just hadnt gone to bed by that point.09:06
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MithrandirHobbsee: "Girls don't exist on the internet"> excellent article, but quite sad.09:11
HobbseeMithrandir: :D09:12
HobbseeMithrandir: indeed09:12
HobbseeMithrandir: i find it's useful to give out to nutters from userland irc channels.09:12
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=== Hobbsee still finds it very weird to be called "sir" or "man"
Hobbseemy point there was - "is there any point in notifying people abotu it all the time, or ignoring the lesser offenses"09:13
rosegrassA package was in Ubuntu has version "20060101-1" but Debian now maintain it too and use "0.0.20070101-1" for version number... How Ubuntu sync this package?09:13
ion_hobbsee: Man, that must be irritating, sir.09:13
Hobbseeion_: :P09:13
StevenKrosegrass: We can't, we'd need to add an epoch.09:14
MithrandirHobbsee: dude, that must be strange, yes.09:14
=== Mithrandir hugs Hobbsee
=== Hobbsee hugs Mithrandir
ion_If the Ubuntu version is 20060101-1, it has been synced from Debian, or Debian has taken it from Ubuntu in the first place, right?09:14
HobbseeMithrandir: at least no one manages to make that mistake in person, though09:14
rosegrassion_, no, it's not true. 20060101-1 is only in Ubuntu.. And some new person repacks it in Debian..09:15
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rosegrassStevenK, does that mean we'll always manually add an epoch??09:16
rosegrassStevenK, if there's new Debian version...09:16
StevenKThe problem is 20060101-1 is greater than 0.0.20070101-109:17
rosegrassStevenK, yes..09:17
StevenKSo, yes, we'd need to add an epoch, or convince the Debian maintainer to do it.09:17
stdinthing is, debian packages guidelines say that a date as a version should be something like 0.0.date in case upstream make a 1.0 relase09:19
rosegrassstdin, yes.. it is..09:19
=== stdin only knows this because he had to read it to make his 1st .deb today :p
ion_Perhaps even 0~date in case theres going to be a 0.0.1 :-)09:21
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Mithrandirion_: 0~ means we can't sync as well09:22
ion_mithrandir: Generally?09:22
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Mithrandirion_: yes, since 0~ is < 0, which is what the sync script compares against.09:23
ion_mithrandir: Okay09:25
Hobbseehmmm.  new ooo without -gnome and -gtk still doesnt work09:26
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Hobbseeah, works if you add -gnome09:27
StevenKHobbsee: But -gnome probably drags in a shedload of dependancies.09:28
HobbseeStevenK: some, yes.  it's been force added to the kubuntu cds, as there's no other fix coming quickly09:28
Hobbseecalc: ^09:29
StevenKHobbsee: Twitch.09:29
Hobbseedrat.  it hasnt09:30
Hobbseeonly -gtk has, and that doesnt fix the issue.09:30
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infinityI thought it had been confirmed that -gtk fixed it...09:31
StevenKI thought Riddell said it hadn't fixed it.09:31
Hobbseeinfinity: it seems not.  on the bug report, a copule of people mentioend it, but not everyone found that to be the case09:31
infinityHobbsee: Bleh.09:32
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Hobbseeinfinity: i take it you dont care enough to respin the livefs', and the kubuntu cds?09:36
Hobbsee(or even think about it?)09:38
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infinityHobbsee: I could do.09:40
Hobbseemorning pitti!09:40
infinityHobbsee: But we'd need a seed change and meta update first, no?09:40
Hobbseeinfinity: ah, now you can leave that decision to pitti09:40
infinityWell, a seed change and publisher run.  The livefs builds run based on tasks, not metapackages.09:40
Hobbseeinfinity: true that - i'm still reading backscroll and such - and we wouldnt need that meta update and seed change if we werent going to respin09:40
pittiGood morn*yawn*ing09:40
infinityI hear that yawn.09:41
infinityI think I'm going to have a bit of a siesta for an hour or two before I get back to work.09:41
=== Hobbsee throws some icecubes at pitti to wake him up
pittiHobbsee: new CD images? *cry*09:41
Hobbseepitti: right then :)09:41
infinitypitti: kubuntu/openoffice still busticated, apparently.09:42
infinitypitti: -gtk wasn't enough, also need -gnome09:42
pittiinfinity: right, we noticed yesterday09:42
pittiyeah, it worked on ubuntu with just -gtk and -kde09:42
pittibut -gnome pulls in a lot of more dependencies09:43
Hobbseepitti: but gconf, etc, would normally be installed on ubuntu anyway09:43
pitticalc identified the library that needs to be fixed09:43
Hobbseethen, on the other hand, how many people actually use ooo on kubuntu?09:43
pittibut we don't have a patch yet, and no time to rebuild OO.o09:43
pittiHobbsee: Riddell did a lot of CD tests yesterday, and apart from that they were ok09:43
pittiHobbsee: so we'll release-note the OO.o issue and give it up for this tribe09:44
pittihey seb12809:45
seb128hello pitti09:45
pittiseb128: got my sms?09:45
pittiseb128: in vmware I saw deskbar-applet crashing a lot on a tracker issue (bug-buddy+nonfunctinoal applet), but it doesn't happen on real iron for me09:46
pittiyay race conditions09:46
pittiseb128: it's a release-notes thing in any case, but I was curious if you saw that somewhere?09:46
seb128pitti: ups, didn't notice the sms before now09:46
seb128no, deskbar works fine for me :/09:46
seb128and I don't think we got a bug about it09:47
seb128do you have a backtrace?09:47
pittiseb128: yeah, bug-buddy produces one09:47
pittiseb128: I was too tired yesterday, I'll file a bug about it today09:47
seb128waouh, you worked late09:47
pittiWe urgently need to find someone to flesh out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe409:49
Hobbseepitti: yeah, cd tests look OK.  ubuntu i386 looks completely untested.  then again, we dont have time to fix anything now anyway09:51
=== Hobbsee grumbles at parents coming in to say hello when you're trying to do something else.
pittiyeah, but we need more desktop tests09:51
pittiI'll do the amd64 ones now09:51
pittibut I need someone for i386, too09:51
=== Hobbsee can do i386
=== pitti adds some test cases
Hobbseeare they the ones in current/ ?09:52
pittiHobbsee: yes09:52
Hobbseecool.  grabbing them now09:53
pittimeh, the guys were so eager to get edubuntu CDs yesterday, and now server doesn't have a single test09:53
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ograpitti, running09:54
pittiogra: ah, thanks!09:55
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ograpitti, apparently stgraber did a test last night, you guys talked about it in my backlog ;) seems he didnt add the results to the tracker09:59
pittiseb128: bug 13124710:01
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131247 in tracker "libdeskbar-tracker crashes at session start" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13124710:01
pittiogra: yeah, and he tested the previous version, too; he had some trouble with 'not permitted to login' and debugged it, did he mail/bug you?10:01
Amaranthpitti: heh, that's a fun one10:01
ograi got a pm10:02
seb128pitti: looks like the one where upstream is getting load of duplicates and which should have been fixed in 0.610:03
pittiseb128: can you please flesh out the Gnome/Tracker/fusa section on the wiki?10:03
pittiseb128: oh, known already then? good10:03
seb128pitti: let me grab some coffee and I'll have a look to it10:03
pittiseb128: 'trackerd' exiting doesn't point to the actual bug in tracker, though, I figure10:03
ograpitti, for the nbd-server issue he had i changed bug 122544 to a sync request10:03
ubotuLaunchpad bug 122544 in nbd "please sync nbd-server from unstable to fix SIGSEGV" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12254410:03
pittiogra: alright10:04
seb128doesn't look like, no10:04
pittiogra: how bad is this? need new CDs for Tribe4?10:04
pittiseb128: merci10:04
seb128de rien ;)10:04
seb128brb, coffee10:04
ograpitti, nah, it throws up an apport win on first login after booting, thats all10:04
pittiogra: as you wish; I sync it now anyway; can we override the ubuntu changes?10:05
ograpitti, we dont use nbd-server in standalone mode, only from inetd ... it crashes only in standalone mode10:05
ograyeah, can all be dropped10:06
ograwouter is a great upstream10:06
ograthanks :)10:07
=== asac downloading iso
asacor is there known brokeness in current?10:08
=== Hobbsee attempts to poke people into helping with release notes
ograi havent seen the login error he saw at all yet and apparently he hasnt seen it a second time either10:08
pittiasac: some warts, but not fatal ones10:09
ograpitti, ... and the logout thing is serious but not worth a new build imho (this is still called a development relese :) )10:09
Hobbseepitti: got a preference for real HW, or a VM?10:09
pittiHobbsee: real hw always :)10:09
=== Hobbsee grumbles
Hobbseepitti: how am i supposed to pretend that i'm doing my assignmetn, with 2 computers running?10:10
pittiHobbsee: one test on real iron, rest on vmware is good10:10
tepsipakkihow can I find an old bug # from launchpad?10:10
pittitepsipakki: advanced search, tick bug states10:10
pittitepsipakki: or try google with 'site:launchpad.net'10:10
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=== Hobbsee really should be *doing* said assignment, incidently.
Hobbseehi jono10:10
tepsipakkium, I mean how to map a malone bug to lp?10:11
tepsipakkisince the numbers don't match10:11
jonohi Hobbsee10:12
pitticjwatson: I filed bug 131250 just for the record; other than that, ubiquity OEM worked well10:13
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131250 in ubiquity "OEM install should have the 'prepare for end user' icon on desktop" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13125010:13
tepsipakkiuh, wrong bug number on the changelog :P10:14
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Hobbseepitti: so far, no luck on poking people into writing release notes10:15
Hobbseepitti: i thougth we had a marketing guy - perhaps, wake him up?  :)10:15
cjwatsoncalc: Ingo made a mistake, we don't10:16
cjwatsonpitti: huh, now I have to go adjust the patch I already committed ;)10:16
pitticjwatson: hm? for OEM?10:17
pitticjwatson: (sorry, my brain is not yet fully functional, I'm afraid)10:17
cjwatsonpitti: yes10:18
pittiHobbsee: I got an email from Corey that he wanted to start working on it, but he's to bed now, I guess10:18
Hobbseepitti: i'd expect so, yes.10:18
pitticjwatson: how did you design it?10:18
cjwatsonpitti: don't understand?10:18
cjwatsonit was already meant to be there, it was just a straight bug that it wasn't10:19
pitticjwatson: 'I have to go adjust the patch...'10:19
cjwatsonthe debian/changelog bit of the patch, to close the bug10:19
pitticjwatson: oh, I see10:19
pittiI just want the bug as a reference, in case we want it in the release notes10:19
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Hobbseepitti: got called to dinner, but i'll test gutsy i386 desktop when i come back.10:21
pittiHobbsee: thanks10:22
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dokopitti: please accept ecj (re-add a missing dependency for ecj-gcj on ecj, causing build failures)10:26
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pittidoko: done10:39
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loonyxpHello, I have to patch the xorg-server in order to have the default resolution for my flatpanel monitor. Unfortunately it is only possible with the server release version of 1.3.0, since there I can apply mode patches. I have tried to build xorg-server within feisty fawn, but I got an error while building (ld returning status 1) saying "make error [Xdmx] ". I have the dependencies installed that are listed in lauchpad. Has anbody a hint what to do10:52
stdinmake sure to get all the build-dependencies with, apt-get build-dep package10:54
loonyxpstdin: ah, I'll try that. I am new to ubuntu (and debian), so I didn't know that. Thanks..10:55
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pittiI'm offline for a bit to test-reinstall my desktop, bbl11:02
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Kopfgeldjaegerwhats the best way to convert flv videos to mpeg (with ffmpeg or mencoder)?  ffmpeg -f mp4 works, but there is a quality loss...11:08
ograhey stgraber11:09
ograthanks for the bug pointers :)11:09
ogra(nbd-server is synced)11:09
stgrabernp, did you find a workaround for the ldm bug ?11:10
ChipzzKopfgeldjaeger: this really isn't the channel for such questions; no support here11:10
ograi'll leave that to sbalneav ...11:10
loonyxpstdin: so, I tried it, but apt says, there is nothing to update. (I have deb and deb-src entries for gutsy in my sources list)11:10
KopfgeldjaegerChipzz: hm, ok11:10
=== Hobbsee comes back
stdinloonyxp: hmm, maybe try asking on #xorg they should know be able to help you11:11
ChipzzKopfgeldjaeger: your question yesterday about C++/glade coding would be best answered in #gnome or #gtk+ on irc.gnome.org (/msg burito invite <#channel> to get an invite)11:12
KopfgeldjaegerChipzz: cool, thanks11:12
Chipzz(apart from the fact that c++ has a seperate load of issues, but that's even more off-topic)11:13
loonyxpstdin: hm, I think it is not an xorg problem, it is a problem of the ubuntu patches, since I was able to build and run the server on another system (gentoo) without the ubuntu patches... who is the maintainer of the xorg-server package for gutsy?11:13
=== Hobbsee grabs the ubuntu i386 desktop iso tests
stdinloonyxp: "Maintainer: Ubuntu Core Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>"11:14
Hobbseewith any luck, the other machine wont catch fire.11:15
loonyxpstdin: thanks11:15
Hobbseeseb128: do you know about a deskbar application crash?11:17
stgrabercurrent edubuntu-server is 20070808.1 + fusa added to edubuntu-desktop right ?11:17
seb128Hobbsee: which one?11:17
stgraber(so I can post my test results - the fusa can't be loaded bug)11:17
ograi think so11:18
Hobbseeseb128: in moduleloader.py11:18
seb128Hobbsee: I know about some crashes, your description lacks detail to reply though11:18
Hobbseeseb128: this is true.11:18
seb128Hobbsee: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tracker/+bug/131247 ?11:19
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131247 in tracker "libdeskbar-tracker crashes at session start" [High,New] 11:19
Hobbseeoh, i have no network connectoin anyway11:19
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Hobbseeseb128: oh, bug buddy sends crashes to gnome now.  gnome bug 46497811:25
ubotuGnome bug 464978 in general "crash in Deskbar: running the live cd" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46497811:25
seb128Hobbsee: right, and there is no useful information nor backtrace, I'm going to close it11:25
Hobbseeseb128: there was one here.  i dont know why it didnt send11:25
Hobbseeseb128: but please do11:25
stgraberogra: bug 13125911:27
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131259 in ltsp "[Gutsy]  LDM doesn't disconnect ssh on logout" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13125911:27
ograstgraber, thanks11:28
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Hobbseeseb128: apologies.  http://wedontsleep.org/~sarah/deskbarcrash11:31
=== Hobbsee concludes that gnome still hates her
Hobbseeseb128: that's happening on 2 machines here11:31
seb128Hobbsee: looks like the bug I pointed to you ;)11:31
seb128k, so it's known11:31
Hobbseeseb128: great.11:31
Hobbseeseb128: erm, that's the one i just reported, i think11:32
pittiHobbsee: I reported it, too11:32
seb128Hobbsee: <seb128> Hobbsee: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tracker/+bug/131247 ?11:32
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131247 in tracker "libdeskbar-tracker crashes at session start" [High,New] 11:32
Hobbseeseb128: oh, that one.  right11:32
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Hobbseepitti: i dont suppose it matters, but NM seems to be segfaulting on shutdown, and is spewing that across the console11:37
pittiHobbsee: not for releasability, but bug should still be reported11:37
ograHobbsee, lets get rid of the console then ;)11:38
Hobbseeogra: :P11:38
Hobbseeogra: i thought nautilus mounted things as sync now.11:38
Hobbseenot async11:38
ogranautilus doesnt mount things :)11:38
ograthats gnome-mount11:39
ograwhich is using what pitti gives it i guess :)11:39
Hobbseewhatever.  gnome in genearl11:39
=== Hobbsee isnt a fan of data loss
pittiHobbsee: sync? no, why should it, that's evil11:39
Hobbseepitti: so i can pull the usb stick out, and still have my data11:40
ograugh ...11:40
coNPUSB sync is mounted async even in Windows...11:40
coNPs /sync/stick/11:40
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ograseb128, i think we should make fusa respect the LTSP_CLIENT variable ... i cant imagine its a good idea on thin clients :)11:41
seb128ogra: what I was saying yesterday, it's a bit later for the tribe now though11:41
ograwell, i need to test it11:41
ograbut we have setups with 2000 users on ldap out there11:42
seb128ogra: do you desactivate the "switch" action as well?11:42
ogranot yet11:42
ograi'll do some testing next week what works and what doesnt first ...11:42
ograif functionallity works i'm fine to keep it11:42
seb128let me know11:42
ograbut i assume fusa will show all available users ...11:43
ograso in ldap setups thats not a god idea11:43
ogra(if tehy are huge enough)11:43
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pittiHobbsee: 'sync' isn't the right answer, but http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0512.3/0050.html might be11:44
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stgraberpitti: just noticed something on the tracker, when you add upgrade "isos", set the version number to tribe-X11:45
Hobbseepitti: neat11:45
=== ogra_test waves to pitti from a successfull edubuntu server install :)
stgraberpitti: as we don't "rebuild" them11:45
pittiogra_test: thumbs up!11:45
stgraberogra_test: you won't say that after having logged out :)11:46
ograseb128, gsd was pretty slow on startup ... i had unthemed panels for nearly a minute (1Ghz system and 256M ram here)11:46
Hobbseeogra_test: yay!11:46
ograstgraber, still testing the server desktop11:46
ograstgraber, can you remember if there was one or two ssh processes left ?11:48
ograi suspect scottie kills only the one running *inside* the tunnel,  but not the tunnel itself11:48
stgraberogra: one11:48
ograah, thats likely it then11:48
stgraberogra: well, after logout I mean11:48
ograi guess we need a .pid file for the tunnel rpocess or so11:49
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Hobbseepitti: had any htoughts about who to persuade to write the release notes for ubuntu?  kubuntu looks to be done, or almost done12:00
pittiHobbsee: I'll asked seb for the gnome bits, and I'll steal OO.o from Kubuntu and will fill in apparmor12:01
Hobbseepitti: cool12:01
=== seb128 hates writting release notes
Hobbseehmmm.  we should edit that kubuntu release notes ehre12:03
seb128I'm not good at making those look nice, etc12:03
Hobbseeseb128: that's why you try delegating first :)12:03
stgraberTesting seems to be going fine, just some Xubuntu testing still required (alternate) and maybe feisty->gutsy upgrade too12:03
seb128Hobbsee: especially when you are not native english speaker :p12:04
Hobbseeseb128: i can proofread, if that helps.12:04
seb128would be nice12:04
seb128I don't intend to write pages anyway12:04
seb128I'll let you know when I've edited them, thanks12:04
pittiseb128: I'll do some screenshots for fusa and tracker, ok?12:05
seb128pitti: great, thanks12:05
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ograseb128, trying to switch users on a thin client i get an error i dont have access to ~/.Xauthority (which is true since this is stored on the client)12:08
ograseb128, the prob is that the error doesnt close on click12:09
ograah, using metacity works, but the close button doesnt12:09
norsettoogra: have you received my email about amachu (new contributor)?12:10
ogranorsetto, yes, sorry i was very busy the last two days12:10
norsettoogra: of course; just let me know when you have time; thx12:11
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pittiseb128, Hobbsee: I pimped https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe4 a bit, WDYT?12:33
seb128pitti: very good ;)12:34
=== seb128 hugs pitti
stgraberpitti: add drop-shadow to the screenshots :)12:34
fabbioneoh feh.. pitti: RHCS is not critical for Tribe12:35
fabbioneleave it queued for after12:35
pittifabbione: RHCS?12:35
thomred hat cluster suite12:35
fabbioneyeah i just uploaded redhat-cluster-suite12:35
pittifabbione: ah, that's fine12:38
asacpitti: test install failed hard :(12:41
Hobbseeseb128: pitti stealing the wiki lock.12:41
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pittiasac: ?12:41
_StefanS_hi there12:41
asacin the mids of installation ... i have no idea how i can get dmesg out of busy box to somehwere12:41
pittiHobbsee: still heavily editing, please give me some minutes12:41
asacpitti: i used auto-resize option12:41
_StefanS_anyone know why subpixel hinting is not compiled in for gutsy ?12:41
Hobbseepitti: ahhh, okay.12:41
pittiasac: hm, I tested that, too12:41
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asacpitti: and see things like "attempt to access beyond end of device" ...12:42
Hobbseepitti: was just going to add the ooo stuff in, but you can do that yourself if you've got teh wiki lock12:42
asacpitti: then falling back to ext212:42
pittiHobbsee: already done12:42
asacpitti: after install of xorg ... i suddenly got a corrupted curses screen: e.g. just stripes et al12:42
asacpitti: any idea how i can get the dmesg from busybox somewhere?12:42
Hobbseepitti: even better.  wasnt there when i last refreshed :)12:43
pittiasac: not really :/ photo camera?12:43
asachmmm not avail12:43
asaci have wget :) ... lets see if can pastebin that ;)12:43
pittiHobbsee, seb128: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/Tribe4 pimped further; I'll collect some caveats now and fill them in, rest is more or less complete, I think; review and fixing my Denglish highly appreciated12:45
_StefanS_bryce: ping ?12:46
Hobbseepitti: seb128 OK, stealing the wiki lock, to fix the Denglish12:46
seb128Hobbsee: thanks ;)12:46
seb128pitti: looks good to me12:46
_StefanS_bryce: any idea why subpixel hinting is not compiled into gutsy for freetype ?12:46
pittiHobbsee: can you please download tribe s/3/4/ while you are at it?12:47
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pittihm, the Xubuntu page doesn't look very good, I think I won't link to it12:49
Hobbseepitti: okay, i see what you mean about the Denglish :P12:49
pittiHobbsee: some Frenglish amongst it, too12:50
pittiHobbsee: I'll look at the diff later to learn :)12:50
Hobbseepitti: unsure why the deskbar applet is mentioned separately, and also in the tracker section.12:53
pittiHobbsee: deskbar is not only for tracker searches12:55
Hobbseepitti: true12:55
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mvoHobbsee: should we mention the improved apport reports on package fialures? I guess its too much of a non-desktop feature12:59
pittimvo: I guess so; maybe we should not advertise things that make crashes look better too much :-)12:59
Hobbseemvo: ask pitti.  i'm not around for this tribe :)01:00
=== Hobbsee pinches the wiki lock again
pittimvo: but if you want to write a stanza about it, go ahead please01:00
mvopitti: not really, was just curious :)01:00
thoms/moving very quickly/hurrying/01:01
thomGnome -> 'as always' > 'as usual'01:02
pittiHobbsee: ^ you still have the wiki lock?01:02
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thomFast User: "Fast User Switching" rather than "Fast user switch applet" (dunno)01:03
thomHobbsee: lemme know when you're done with the lock :)01:03
pittithom: thanks01:03
Hobbseethom: i shouldnt do, now01:03
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Hobbseethom: ah, good finds.   didnt notice them01:06
asacpitti: can't telll ... retry ... reuse previously created partition appears to work :/01:07
pittiHobbsee, Riddell, ogra: at this stage I'm content with the Ubuntu CDs; I don't like the warts, but it installs at least, and it's too late for new images; what's the "yay or nay" status for kubuntu/edubuntu?01:08
Hobbseepitti: yay for kubuntu - we would have had to respin them hours ago to do otherwise.01:08
pittiasac: that sounds serious, though; that should be a tribe-5 bug; it doesn't seem to happen generally, though01:08
ograjust running a i386 ubiquity install here, seems good so far01:08
asacpitti: there was a difference01:08
ograi386 server is definately ok01:08
asacpitti: i had no monitor connected so X resolution selection popped up01:08
thomyou're far too excited about OOo :)01:09
asacpitti: this time i kept monitor connected to see what is going on01:09
pittiasac: that always happends to me on alternates, too01:09
ograi would have liked an amd64 test though, but my hw is broken atm01:09
asacpitti: resolution selection?01:09
asacpitti: hmm01:09
pittiogra: stgraber did quite a lot of tests yesterday with the previous image, but not sure about amd6401:09
ogratheer are no amd64 results on the isotracker01:09
pittiogra, Hobbsee: ok, then I'll prepare the /releases/ ISO images now; we can still ditch them if needed, but if they are reaonable, I have it prepared already01:10
ograoh, wait01:10
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ogradesktop had amd64 tests01:10
Riddellpitti: yay indeed01:10
Hobbseepitti: great :)01:10
pittiRiddell: I like the OOo screenshot on the kubuntu page :-P01:11
pittiRiddell: "Yes, it's blue again!!!"01:11
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Riddellmakes me happy :)  I should update the page with info on how to get oo working01:13
HobbseeRiddell: i did it01:13
pittiRiddell: it's there already01:13
=== thom de-locks
pittithom: thanks, adding my caveat list then01:14
Riddelloh, so it is01:14
thomsomeone please check my english; I've been living in .nl for the last year and it's doing bad things to my grammar!01:15
pittiwiki updated01:16
Hobbseethom: why'd you take the comma out?01:16
Hobbsee * On Kubuntu installs Open Office currently does not start but hangs at the splash screen. To workaround this install openoffice.org-gnome. (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/127944)01:16
ubotuLaunchpad bug 127944 in openoffice.org "[gutsy]  Open Office applications don't start " [High,Confirmed] 01:16
Hobbseethom: the LTSP change looks wrong too - it should be in.01:17
stgraberogra,pitti: my test computer is i386 only01:17
Fujitsu /win 1601:17
Hobbseethom: did you want to fix, or me to fix?01:17
pittistgraber: alright; then let's hope for the best :)01:17
thomHobbsee: no way, definitely "on the order"01:18
thomhrm, maybe not01:18
Hobbseethom: everyone says "in the order of" here.  maybe it's an australian-ism.01:18
thommeh :)01:18
FujitsuI don't think it's an Australianism.01:18
Hobbseebut, i dont think so01:18
ograstgraber, all fine, there was one amd64 -desktop test01:18
ograi'm fine to take the risk for amd64 server01:18
thomwhat don't you like about the openoffice change? ", hanging" -> "but hangs" seems reasonable to me, but like i say :)01:19
thomHobbsee: you're welcome to fix :)01:19
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Hobbseethom: just wondered why you dropped the comma01:20
Hobbseethom: that was the only thing01:20
Hobbseethom: fixed01:23
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thomi suspect i was just on an anti-comma tear :)01:27
Hobbseethom: hehe01:27
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ograseb128, we should probably add a casper script to disable fusa in the live session weems useless to me to have it there01:29
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pittiHobbsee, seb128, thom: are you happy with the Ubuntu wiki page now? if so, I'll move it over to www.ubuntu.com01:48
seb128ogra: for edubuntu you mean?01:52
ograseb128, generally01:52
ograseb128, what the use case to have it if there is only a live session user01:53
seb128ogra: I don't agree, it display who is logged, allow to right click to add users and is consistant01:53
seb128pitti: looks good to me01:53
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cjwatsonasac: you can extract log files using nc, or you can 'anna-install openssh-client-udeb' and use scp01:55
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ograor use the menu to do the latter ;)01:56
asacdamn ... the state is gone already :(01:56
asaccjwatson: ^^01:56
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cjwatsonasac: ok, but for the future01:58
asacyes .. will remember anna-install01:58
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Admiral_Chicagopitti: how long until the release?  I'm still working on the notes02:10
pittihi Admiral_Chicago02:11
pittiAdmiral_Chicago: I think two or three hours, since I have to wait for our webmaster02:11
Hobbseepitti: you might be lucky, and get it out before the distro team meeting02:11
pittiHobbsee: that's my hope02:11
Admiral_Chicagopitti: okay the Xubuntu notes aren't done yet, unfortunately.02:12
pittiAdmiral_Chicago: I saw; if you want to do some, that would be great02:12
dokopitti: please accept php5 (lpia fix), if this doesn't show up on the CD02:13
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Admiral_Chicagoi'll see what I can do right now, have to go to work in a few minutes, thats been takig up all my time :(02:13
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stgraberouch, just noticed that the tracker now takes >1 hour to update it's LP bug DB, I'll put caching of bug status (not refresh not shown bug) high priority02:23
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pitticjwatson, evand: I filed bug 131294 (for tribe-5 only); I assigned it to evand for now, please trade it amongst the two of you accordingly :)02:46
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131294 in ubiquity "does not install language packs for the target language" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13129402:46
cjwatsonpitti: evand is welcome to it :-)02:47
pittiheh, declining the honour? :)02:48
Hobbseehehe, delegation at it's finest02:48
Hobbseepitti: do my assignment, please.  it'll be good for you.02:49
pittiHobbsee: you are talking to a shell script (~/bin/pitti.sh); I am not capable of such things02:50
Hobbseepitti: awww....darn.02:50
Hobbsee$ for x in lots; do cp ~/bin/pitti.sh ~/bin/pitti-$x; done.02:51
Hobbseepitti: if you're a shell script, then we can clone you!02:51
Spadsset -e02:52
HobbseeSpads: that too.  it was pseudocode :P02:52
SpadsHobbsee: no, not for you02:52
SpadsHobbsee: for pitti02:52
Kmospitti: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/dvd -> this one isn't building daily02:52
SpadsHobbsee: make him less tolerant of error!02:52
HobbseeSpads: ahhh....02:52
pittiKmos: I know, they are horribly overflown, and I don't have an idea ATM how to fix that02:53
=== pitti exits with 1
ZicTribe 4 is online02:54
Zic:] 02:54
Kmospitti: bug 13077702:55
ubotuLaunchpad bug 130777 in Ubuntu "Current Gutsy DVD build ISO is too large" [Undecided,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13077702:55
Kmospitti: how about to delete the current directory, so anyone will download it..02:55
cjwatsonI'd rather have a clearer note on the page that the image is oversized, so that we don't impede rsyncability for developers keeping up02:57
cjwatsonanyone in the ubuntu-cdimage team has code access and is in a position to implement02:57
cjwatsonKmos: DVDs aren't supposed to build daily, either.02:57
cjwatsonthat's deliberate02:57
cjwatsonwould be too much mirror churn02:57
Kmoscjwatson: I've already explained in the man of the bug that he must check of .OVERSIZED, so he don't have 4 hours of download for nothing02:59
cjwatsonI saw, but it would also be possible to explain that in prose in the automatically generated HTML03:00
cjwatson(I'm not going to just edit it on the fly every time; the code should be changed)03:00
Kmosyeah, I agree03:01
cjwatsonmaybe we should create a dvd seed, though I was hoping not to have to do that03:01
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calccjwatson: oh ok03:02
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calcpitti: i think i identified the library that allows it to work at all, not the one that needs to be fixed03:03
pitticalc: ooh03:03
cjwatsondoko: would you object to dropping gcc-4.2-source from supported (and thereby from the DVD)? it will stay in main due to build-dependencies03:03
pitticalc: we currently recommend to install openoffice.org-gnome as a workaround03:03
cjwatsonand will save 50MB of the 170MB or so we need to trim03:03
pitticalc: but that itself isn't needed; which package is it then?03:03
cjwatsoncalc: "cjwatson: oh ok" => sorry, context?03:04
calcpitti: apparently that helps for ubuntu but not kubuntu, i still need to do more investigation into it03:04
pitticalc: ok; well, I'll just leave the ooo-gnome workaround in the Kubuntu release notes then03:04
calcpitti: from what i read on a bug report its hangs due to not properly initializing gtk03:04
cjwatsonit's awfully tempting to drop linux-source from the DVD but I think that's useful to have there03:04
calccjwatson: ah about what you said about ingo and noatime03:05
cjwatsonoh, right03:05
cjwatsoncalc: (this morning, I committed support to d-i upstream for relatime)03:05
calccjwatson: ok03:05
cjwatsonstill need to do support for having default mount options in a reasonable way, though03:05
pittiogra, Riddell: did you find any new OMGTSIF bugs? speak now or never (about to sync-mirrors, for link/bittorrent testing etc)03:06
Riddellpitti: nope, go ahead and sync03:06
cjwatsonpitti: I think bzip2ing texlive-doc and texlive-lang would help03:08
cjwatsonmaybe even texlive-base03:08
cjwatsonI'm just looking into the numbers03:08
pitticjwatson: would mean a (trivial) debian delta, but indeed03:09
cjwatsonpitti: yes, seems like it might be worth it03:09
cjwatsonno intrinsic reason Debian couldn't take it03:09
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evandpitti: I'll take it (not that I have a choice :) )03:13
pittievand: thanks03:14
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cjwatsonhmm, not obvious that it saves a whole lot from texlive-doc03:14
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cjwatsondamn, bzip2ing texlive-* seems to save maybe a megabyte at most from the largest ones. Probably not worth it :(03:16
ScottKHobbsee: If you have an opinion, please express it.03:16
cjwatsonhmm, I wonder if I should make germinate show original-maintainer rather than maintainer03:18
cjwatsonseems like it would be more informative03:18
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pittihi mathiaz03:27
mathiazhi pitti03:29
mathiazpitti: how things are going with the isos ?03:29
pittimathiaz: last stages of preparation now03:29
iwjpitti: I see you marked my `fsck on first boot' bug 131201 as a dupe of bug 63175 but I don't think that's right.03:29
pittimathiaz: a lot of warts on the desktop, but too late now03:29
mathiazpitti: server seems all good03:30
iwjThe original submitter of 63175 is getting fsck on _every_ boot.03:30
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131201 in debian-installer "always fscks first boot after install (dup-of: 63175)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13120103:30
ubotuLaunchpad bug 63175 in e2fsprogs "fsck on every (re)boot" [Medium,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/6317503:30
iwjIt's possible the cause is the same but I doubt it.03:30
pittiiwj: hm, the bug trail seemed to indicate that this was related (clock skew)03:30
iwjI think it may well be related, yes.03:30
pittiiwj: but I'm ok with unduplicating it; I didn't look into it very deeply03:30
dendrobatespitti, mathiaz: I was unable to test the sparc iso.  My ultra 10 needs a little loving care first.  I'll test this afternoon.03:30
pittidendrobates: alright; we'll just push it out and hope then :)03:31
iwjI don't think we know how to reproduce 63175.03:31
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ograiwj, thst bugs exists since tribe 1 ... there must me another one that matches better iirc03:33
iwjogra: Right.03:33
ograits related to UTC/non UTC setup ....03:33
dokocjwatson: np, just needed to build gcj-4.203:34
cjwatsonfsck> I would love somebody who can reproduce it to fix it03:36
iwjcjwatson: 63175 or the first-boot one ?03:37
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cjwatsoniwj: either, frankly :-)03:37
iwj63175 is too hard I think.03:37
cjwatsonbut I meant the first-boot one03:37
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iwjBut I can reproduce the latter.03:37
iwjI'll look at it after FF.  I take it we're not in a hurry.03:37
cjwatsonI am available for advice if anyone can describe the problem within d-i accurately and is just trying to figure out the right fix03:37
cjwatsonhurry> shouldn't think so03:38
iwjcjwatson: Right.03:38
iwjI've assigned the bug to myself and milestoned it for tribe 6.  Is that about right ?03:39
cjwatsonsounds lovely03:39
cjwatson(tribe 5 is after FF too, but tribe 6 might be more realistic since I suspect it may take a little while to sort out)03:40
cjwatsoniwj: FWIW /var/log/installer/cdebconf/questions.dat should be enough information for accurate reproduction by somebody who knows how to read it; alternatively an install with DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer in the kernel boot parameters03:40
cjwatson(and /var/log/installer/syslog from the latter)03:40
dobeywhere does the standard .config for building an ubuntu kernel come from? linux-source doesn't seem to include it, and i'm not sure it has the "ubuntu patches" in it either03:41
iwjcjwatson: Right.  I'll C&P that into the bug so I'll know what to do later ..03:41
cjwatsondobey: apt-get source linux-source-2.6.22 (or appropriate other version)03:42
cjwatsonit's in debian/config/ or something like that, and the patches are applied03:43
ograiwj, i think we already hunted it down to something like: partitioner runs mkfs and puts timestamp into superblock, timezone gets configured and changes the clock backwards (UTC setting), superblock is in the future on first boot and triggers fsck03:44
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iwjThe no. of days is 2^32s - 86400 + 3600 or some such.03:46
dobeythis one ps3 patch seems to already be applied...03:50
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cjwatsondobey: certainly a number of ps3 patches are03:52
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dobeycjwatson: i wonder why my sixaxis doesn't work over usb though, given the appropriate patch seems to be applied already03:53
cjwatsondobey: worth asking #ubuntu-kernel; the relevant people should have woken up / be waking up shortly03:54
mjg59iwj: Can you see a downside to just altering the fsck code so it ignores dates in the future?03:55
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iwjmjg59: If the time check interval thingum is set to `don't' then yes, it should ignore them.03:57
iwjOtherwise it's not clear.03:58
mjg59iwj: My recollection is that older versions of fsck did signed arithmetic here03:59
sladenisn't it just a (signed) issue?03:59
mjg59Someone found the old code at some point03:59
iwjI worry though about fixing this particular symptom like that.  There might be other things that go wrong as a result of clock skew between install and first boot.03:59
iwjsigned arithmetic> That means if you once fsck with a stupid clock, you might never fsck again.04:00
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mjg59Hm. That might be the reason for the change04:00
mjg59On the other hand, if you change the hardware time, it's not obvious that that should result in a fsck04:01
sladenso have a "uninitialised" state (eg. 0x...fffff) that is treated as such04:01
sladenset that during that one-time following creation04:01
mjg59The obvious way around this would seem to be to write the current time if the existing time is in the future04:01
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:pitti] : Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with gutsy; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty, #ubuntu+1 for gutsy support | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Tribe 4 released
pittihave fun04:02
StevenKpitti: Yay! Congrats04:02
=== ogra dances
pittiwhat a messy release again04:02
ogramilestone ...04:02
=== Hobbsee hugs pitti
Hobbseeyay, pitti!04:02
pittiat least I learned a whole lot about the guts of Soyuz :) (more than I wanted to, I guess)04:03
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Hobbseewhat do we do about bugs such as https://launchpad.net/bugs/131311 ?04:11
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131311 in Ubuntu "tribe cd images not being produced for powerpc" [Undecided,New] 04:11
StevenKI think there was no point making a live CD for powerpc prior to OO.o 2.3, since it didn't build on powerpc04:12
StevenKHrm. No, that doesn't seem to be it, I'll shush now.04:13
asacbryce: yt?04:13
Hobbseeasac: btw, any plans to update enigmail?04:15
asacHobbsee: is there a wishlist bug ;) ?04:15
asacanyway, yes.04:15
Hobbseeasac: dunno.  havnet looked.04:15
Hobbseeasac: i looked at upgrading it, and went "ewww, that looks decidedly not-fun"04:16
asacHobbsee: its just dropping the enigmail tarball in the archives dir04:16
asacbumping changelog ... then spin04:16
Hobbseeasac: i wasnt sure if there was more than that04:16
asacusually not04:16
asacif it breaks, then come back :)04:17
asacjust be sure that you keep the mozsdk tarball in orig as well04:17
asacjust upgrade the enigmail one04:17
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pittiStevenK: right04:49
pittiHobbsee, StevenK: OO.o has never been built on ppc so far04:50
pittiHobbsee, StevenK: i actually did attempt to build tribe4 images for ppc, but unfortunately they are uninstallable04:50
pittiwhich is actually my bug (restricted-manager), already fixed in bzr head04:50
pittiso we'll get dailies in the next days04:50
pittijamiemcc: it's sooo great to have an upstream who directly works on LP bugs \o/04:52
jamiemccpitti: no  problem - you lot have my undivided attention04:52
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pittihey bryce04:58
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=== lamont` notes that he needs to track down the sync-request proceedure and get nfs-utils current in gutsy before pitti kills him.
pittilamont`: just use requestsync :)05:04
geserpreferable the version from gutsy05:04
lamont`pitti: I even have that05:04
lamont`pitti: whatever version >= 1:1.0.0-7 will prevent you and fabbione from hurting me05:05
lamont`er, -805:06
fabbionelamont`: if it's only because of portmap, i won't hurt you too badly :)05:06
lamont`fabbione: nfs mounting was dropped by upstream util-linux...  nfs-utils now delivers mount.nfs05:06
fabbioneoh i see05:07
fabbionewell i will put the package on hold05:07
lamont`and mount doesn't depend: nfs-utils since 99% of the world doesn't care about nfs, and grandma will never figure out how to remove portmapper later.05:07
fabbioneyeah i know i am that 1% special05:08
fabbionethat makes me feel so gooood05:08
lamont`preinst has logic that says: if nfs-common (any  version) is installed, and proc is mounted and there are nfs mounts in /proc/mounts, and /sbin/mount.nfs doesn't exist, then bitch and die05:08
lamont`the further justification is that it is reasonable to expect that anyone running nfs has sufficient clue to deal with "upgrade nfs-common first, or die" error message.05:08
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lamont`pitti: looks  like he actually got done fixing mount-related bugs in 1:1.1.0-14 :)05:10
fabbionelamont`: yeah i guess i fall into the "enough clue" by being part of that 1% :P05:10
lamont`fabbione: note that I didn not say "old farts" even once.05:10
fabbionelamont`: ROFL05:11
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=== fabbione installs nis to fall in the "old farts" category...
fabbionebut then.. i already use postfix...05:11
norsettohey, mind your language05:11
norsettoold is a bad word :-)05:11
alex-weejcjwatson: got a second mate?05:19
cjwatsonalex-weej: not really, distro team meeting in progress05:20
cjwatsonalex-weej: you can let me know what's up and I can get back to you after the meeting's over05:20
alex-weejcjwatson: ok thanks, i just want to be sure of how to get Tribe 4 installed so i can test it without wasting an hour installing and then have the bootloader installation failed05:21
cjwatsonas I say, use the device name (/dev/sdd) without trying to translate to grub-speak yourself05:22
alex-weejok i'll give it a go then, cheers!05:22
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ScottKpitti: I really like apport saying "The problem cannot be reported.  This is not a genuine Ubuntu package."  Very good that it checks.  Thank you.05:40
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cjwatsonIMO it should just go away rather than telling you that though05:41
cjwatsonas in, no UI until it's confirmed that it's actually a package bug05:41
cjwatson(if possible)05:41
pittiScottK: :)05:42
pitticjwatson: bit tricky, since we already have UI to restart the program and inform about the crash05:43
pittiand at that time we don't know yet whether it's a genuine package05:43
pitti(it is expensive to find out, and I don't want to do it unless the user is interested in reporting)05:43
ScottKWould that be the preferred approach then for a developer who wants a retrace on a crash they are working on?05:43
pittibut I do acknowledge that this could be better05:43
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Skiessiwhy gutsy has still SDL 1.2.11? why not 1.2.12?05:54
cjwatsonDebian hasn't packaged 1.2.12 yet, so we probably simply didn't notice05:54
keescookSkiessi: looks like debian hasn't packaged 1.2.12 yet: http://packages.qa.debian.org/libs/libsdl1.2.html05:54
cjwatsonwhat is interesting in 1.2.12?05:54
pittiScottK: I have some ideas about that, liek providing an 'debug this right here' know if apport-retrace and the ddeb repo are available, and such05:55
cjwatson(i.e. why should we take the extra effort to work in advance of Debian in this case?)05:55
Skiessithey have fixed some things in mouse support and my cursor has got stuck after quitting some sdl games05:55
ScottKpitti: I think that would be even better.  That way LP doesn't get cluttered.05:56
Skiessiso I had to always restart X server05:56
YagisanSkiessi, code around the known mouse issues - restarting sdl apps usually fixes the mouse ...05:56
mathiazkeescook: So what's the plan to update apparmor kernel module ?05:57
keescookpitti: I looked at the apparmor profile for CUPS.  why the need for shadow?  Seems like the 'authentication' abstraction would be useful there?05:57
keescookmathiaz: it's up to the kernel team05:57
mathiazkeescook: I've updated the userspace part, but cannot test it as it needs the latest version.05:57
keescookmathiaz: we're waiting for them to take the patches05:57
keescookwe discussed that it would be after t405:57
mathiazkeescook: Have you sent the patch ?05:57
keescookmathiaz: my understanding is that kyle has it already05:58
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shirishpitti: you there m8?05:58
mathiazkylem: do you have the new apparmor kernel module ?05:58
=== Yagisan regrets buying such a new unsupported nvidia adapter :(
kylemdid you send it to me?05:59
pittikeescook: yeah, probably; it uses <shadow.h> and getspnam() etc05:59
tkamppeterpitti, another important thing where I am in favour of s-c-p are the bugs of g-c-m.05:59
keescookkylem: I thought you said you had the 10_3 branch from suse?05:59
pittitkamppeter: I agree05:59
pittishirish: yeah, barely05:59
keescookkylem: I had sent you the links, and you and BenC looked at them for a bit.06:00
kylemoh, right.06:00
shirishpitti: do you have some tests, I am getting 502 bad gateway whenever i try to push a 12 MB crash file through apport.06:00
pittishirish: sounds like a Malone problem06:00
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shirishpitti: could it be? How do I know that?06:01
tkamppeterpitti, g-c-m was not maintained upstream, so no one worked on the bugs. s-c-p is maintained very actively, and used on the most widespread distro, so bugs get fixed there.06:01
pittikeescook: I'm happy to use the auth abstraction, though06:01
keescookpitti: okay, I may tweak this a bit.  I think we should likely add an "avahi-client" abstraction too06:02
pittikeescook: cupsd checks users and passwords (lpadmin members) on the web interface06:02
pittitkamppeter: would you have some time for some easy UI tweaks? like we discussed some days ago?06:02
tkamppeterpitti, a tool full of bugs is less user-friendly than a tool which asks perhaps a question too much.06:03
pittitkamppeter: I'm also leaning towards using s-c-p, if we can make it a bit easier, it'll be great06:03
pittitkamppeter: *nod*06:03
tkamppeterpitti, I have also forwarded your UI suggestions to Tim Waugh, perhaps he will also do something on them.06:04
pittikeescook: btw, how evil it is to do "/usr/lib/** mr,"?06:04
pittikeescook: I guess that pretty much circumvents the ixr limitations on /usr/bin/, right?06:04
pittikeescook: I put that in to get a profile ready at that day, but I guess it should be tighter06:04
pittitkamppeter: yay, thanks06:04
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mathiazpitti: it should be included with the base abstraction.06:06
pittimathiaz: no, that only has /usr/lib/**  are06:06
pittimathiaz: oh, sorry, /usr/lib/*.so*                 mr, too06:07
pitti'are'? I didn't type that, that was 'r'06:07
pittisilly xchat :)06:07
mathiazpitti: access to libraries should be covered in the base abstraction.06:08
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pittimathiaz: what I meant is, if you allow loading and using *all* libraries, then it does not make sense to restrict execution privs to /usr/bin/, or does it?06:09
pittimathiaz: since in all those libraries there's certainly some code you could abuse06:09
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pittimathiaz: hm, no idea why I added "/usr/lib/** mr" explicitly; I used it with the profile builder and it barked on me06:09
pittimathiaz: I'll fine-tune that, I guess06:10
mathiazpitti: there is also /lib/** rm06:10
mathiazpitti: there is /lib/lib*.so*                  mr06:10
mathiazpitti: in the base abstractions06:10
alex-weejcjwatson: it almost worked. except that if i attempt to boot from the external disk, grub can't bootstrap because it doesn't recognise the file system (Error 17). if i boot from my working grub and use a shell, it shows the filesystem as unknown. the file system is definitely ext3 and i can mount it here fine.06:11
cjwatsonalex-weej: sorry, I can't help, but I hope somebody else can06:12
alex-weejok thanks06:12
alex-weeji will put it on launchpad06:13
alex-weejdoes anyone know where the installer logs go?06:13
cjwatsonpitti: thanks for the vmware monitor size tip, btw06:15
pitticjwatson: heh, I was annoyed by it and I just happened to discover that it's configurable, no problem :)06:15
cjwatsonRiddell: turns out the failure to do a CD check is directly due to there being no suitable usplash theme06:16
cjwatsonI managed to strace it, and it does open("/dev/.initramfs/usplash_fifo") => ENXIO and bails out there06:16
keescookpitti: /usr/lib/** mr, seems pretty open, but probably not hugely harmful.  an attacker already can read /etc/shadow, for example06:17
cjwatsonmight be able to make it fall back to text-only06:17
pittikeescook: I agree06:18
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pittikeescook: what I meant is, with abstractions/base it does to make too much sense to focus on restricting /usr/bin executability, right?06:18
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Riddellcjwatson: oh, curious06:19
keescookpitti: well, just because you can mmap it, doesn't mean you can exec it.  :)06:19
keescookor, rather, it raises the bar a bit06:19
pittikeescook: but /usr/lib/** has certainly a lot of code to exploit/use06:20
pittikeescook: yeah, it probably defeats standard exploits pretty well06:20
pittikeescook: I'm thinking on the academic level now06:20
pittii. e. 'someone really means it'06:20
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pittikeescook: so I'll clean up the profile for abstractions/auth and the reduntant library stuff; did you see anything that's badly wrong or horrifying?06:30
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=== pitti hugs mvo for bug 128744
ubotuLaunchpad bug 128744 in soyuz "spurious titlecase in PPA indices" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12874406:49
brycemvo, did you want to chat?06:49
=== mvo beams
mvobryce: I asked in ubuntu-x :)06:49
alex-weejwe surely need this for gutsy if we're going to ship compiz on by default06:51
thomalex-weej: for gutsy? dream on06:51
thomit's not even upstream yet06:51
alex-weejbut we're still going to ship compiz on?06:51
mjg59alex-weej: It's only implemented for Intel, it's implemented for a branch of the intel driver we don't use, it's implemented for a branch of drm we don't use and it requires TTM support (which is unstable and which we don't use)06:53
mjg59So that's certainly not going in gutsy06:53
alex-weej.'. no default compiz06:53
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=== LaserJock hugs pitti for Tribe 4
pittiLaserJock: \o/06:54
alex-weeji don't wanna imagine the stick that Gutsy gets when average Joe realises that he can't have "Vista-style" 3D whack while being able to use Google Earth06:54
mvoalex-weej: that and video are currently the two big showstoppers for compiz06:55
alex-weejwhat's wrong with video?06:55
pygialex-weej, I can imagine. You are getting it all wrong anyway06:55
pygiwhatsoever, I have and won't go into further discussion06:55
mvoyou can not have composited video currenly (only with a specially patched mplayer)06:56
alex-weejmvo: hm, video works for me with R350 on Gutsy, as long as i don't use Xv (naturally)06:56
mvoalex-weej: right, that is a workaround of course, but non-Xv is not that great performancewise06:57
alex-weejwhat's the solution?06:57
mjg59Use textured video rather than overlay06:57
mjg59(= wait for the code to be written)06:57
mvoRiddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/131352 looks like something releated to kde?06:58
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131352 in update-manager "upgrade tool crashed in Gutsy Tribe 3" [Undecided,New] 06:58
alex-weejis that what GL output is?06:58
mjg59But yeah. Right now compiz causes serious regressions.06:58
alex-weejso it's looking like Compiz won't be on by default after all?06:58
mjg59Well, it still has exactly the same issues that made us punt it last time06:58
alex-weejwhenever i read that word i think of Teen Girl Squad. Excuse me.06:59
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Riddellmvo: yes, assign to me if you want07:00
mvoRiddell: do you know already what the cause is?07:02
mvoRiddell: thanks, assigned it to you now07:02
=== mvo hugs Riddell
Riddellmvo: no idea, but we have new versions of pyqt and pykde in recently07:03
mvoRiddell: bug #130321 is something that would be good to get solved for gutsy too, the forked dpkgpm causes more and more pain now07:04
ubotuLaunchpad bug 130321 in adept "apport integration for package failure does not work with adept" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13032107:04
mvoRiddell: essentially adept lacks automatic-dependency information, dpkg-log support and apport integration because of it07:04
mvoRiddell: any hackers you can summon on it? if not, I will see if I can give it a go, but I will take twice the time of a kde hacker :/07:05
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mjg59jamiemcc: Doing a git pull on a small source tree results in tracker spending really quite a new time updating the index08:02
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mjg59It's now spent over a minute writing to the depot files08:03
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mjg59jamiemcc: strace shows it doing a lot of seeking, reading and writing08:04
jamiemccmjg59: thats correct08:04
jamiemccbut it should be quicker08:04
mjg593 minutes in total08:04
jamiemcckernel io performance on gutsy sux atm o n my hardware08:04
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jamiemccon feisty we can update 100 source files a second08:05
mjg59jamiemcc: The quantity of seeking its doing would result in it being slow anyway08:05
mjg59Is the file format really optimal?08:05
jamiemccyes its a differential indexer08:05
jamiemccwe need to fetch the existing contents and compare with changed08:05
jamiemccand then update difference to index08:05
jamiemccmjg59: you can use our crawl directory settings to only index that stuff at startup08:06
mjg59Ok. I'm not especially happy about an update of 30 files resulting in tens of thousands of seek.08:06
mjg59That's going to be slow, especially on laptops08:07
jamiemcc30 files means about 30 seeks08:07
jamiemcc+ 30 for fetching original text08:07
jamiemccshould be 60 in total08:07
mjg59jamiemcc: That's not what I'm seeing08:07
jamiemccyou must have a huge db then08:08
jamiemccand not much ram08:08
mjg59I have 768MB of RAM08:08
mjg59And a 1.3GB database08:08
jamiemcchow big is db files in ~/.cache08:08
mjg591.1G    /home/mjg59/.cache/tracker08:08
mjg59jamiemcc: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33161/08:09
mjg59That's a snippet - imagine hugely more than that08:09
jamiemccshould not take a minute to do that08:10
jamiemcca few secs is more normal08:10
mjg59Took 308:10
jamiemcc3 minutes?08:10
jamiemcchow big were the files?08:10
mjg59All the time taken was writing to the database, not reading the files08:10
jamiemccwe have fsync off so the disk scheduler should optimise that08:11
jamiemccI bet kernel is not doing that08:11
mjg59You're repeatedly seeking and reading08:11
mjg59There's little the kernel can do to optimise that other than readahead08:11
jamiemccthe wrotes should be buffered08:12
mjg59Right, but the reading clearly can't be08:12
mjg59And it's doing as many reads as it is writes08:12
jamiemccif thwe writes are not buffered it will really slow things down08:13
jamiemccthe seeks are all close together on disk so should be fast08:13
jamiemccif buffered the writes will be applied long after the seeks08:14
mjg59If you're making several thousand small reads, it's going to be slow08:15
highvoltagewhat's the status of Gobuntu? is there any value in testing the current builds?08:15
highvoltage(or tribe 4, at least)08:15
jamiemccmjg59: no more than a few secs08:15
jamiemccalternate read/write is painfully slow08:15
mjg59jamiemcc: Hang on, I'll try to instrument this08:15
highvoltage(oops, I see there's just daily builds currently)08:15
mjg59jamiemcc: Remember that with a small read followed by another small read, you're having to wait for the disk to spin round to the right place again08:16
jamiemccmjg59: can you graph disk reads/writes and see when they are applied?08:16
jamiemccmjg59: we dont control reads - sqlite does that08:16
mjg59So on a 4800RPM disk, you're looking at only being able to make 4800 small reads a minute08:16
mjg59(worst case)08:16
jamiemcc10 ms access time is average08:17
jamiemccfor reads close together buffer will cover some of them08:17
jamiemccand head has less distance to cover08:17
mjg5910ms is only 6000 reads a minute08:17
jamiemccthats worst case08:18
jamiemccif they are close together average seek will be smaller08:18
mjg59Whether any of it gets buffered depends on whether the reads are close to each other08:18
mjg59It's not seek time that's the killer here. It's rotational latency08:18
jamiemccbut not sure what I can do about it?08:18
jamiemccall i can say is its fast if the writes are buffered properly08:18
mjg59Let me just get an idea about how many reads are being made08:18
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rulusjamiemcc: I mailed you a Dutch translation for Tracker yesterday, did you receive the message?08:21
jamiemccrulus: yes - I will apply soon thx08:22
rulusok, thanks :)08:22
rulusit's not 100% complete, but it's a good start08:22
jamiemccok sorry for the delay applying - just be swamped with bugs atm08:23
rulusno problem08:23
mjg59jamiemcc: Ok, I'm benchmarking the creation of 399 files totalling 5.9M08:26
mjg59It's taken 3 minutes so far08:26
jamiemccthat sux08:26
jamiemccare they text files?08:27
mjg59C files08:28
jamiemccok that should take less than 10 secs08:28
mjg59With a binary pack file08:28
mjg59So a single 2.8M binary08:28
mjg59Still running, so 6 minutes so far08:29
Skiessicould someone add tabbing to Nautilus? before or after gutsy08:29
jamiemccmjg59: are other disk intensive processes slow?08:29
mjg59Well, to the extent that this is a 1.8" hard drive, yes08:30
jamiemccI mean ones that read/write a lot08:30
mjg59But otherwise, no - no slower than with older kernels08:30
jamiemccare you in swap?08:30
mjg59There is swap in use, but I have plenty of free memory08:30
mjg59So running stuff isn't swapping08:31
jamiemccext3 ordered mode?08:31
mjg59All default mount options08:31
mjg59[    5.672000]  EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode.08:31
mjg59jamiemcc: To be fair to it, strace is taking up plenty of CPU, so it's not an entirely fair test08:32
mjg59But I want to see the syscall counts08:32
mjg59(Still running)08:33
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with gutsy; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty, #ubuntu+1 for gutsy support | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Tribe 4 released
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by pitti at Thu Aug 9 16:01:54 2007
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mathiazstgraber: I'm thinking about asking the ubuntu-server mailing list to do some hardware testing of tribe-4. Do you have an idea on how the iso testing tracker could be used to track the results ?10:46
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Kmossoren: ping10:57
mathiazKmos: soren is on vacation for at least two weeks.10:59
Kmosmathiaz: ok thx :(11:00
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stgrabermathiaz: this will be easily possible once the qa.stgraber.org (maybe qa.ubuntu.com by this time) will be working and we'll be able to create sub-domain11:06
stgrabermathiaz: but I'm still starting implementing it (kernel and mozilla team being the testers), the details should be discussed at next UDS11:07
stgrabermathiaz: so, nothing now :(11:08
mathiazstgraber: ok. Do you think we can add test case per hardware type ?11:10
mathiazstgraber: for example 'dell poweredge 850'11:10
stgraberinside the ISO tracker nope, but in the future you will be able to request a server.qa.stgraber.org website and there it'll be possible11:11
stgraberyou'll set Gutsy+1 BETA or whatever the CD is as milestone11:12
stgraberthen add your Hardware where you currently see the different ISOs11:12
stgraberthen add you testcase on them11:12
mathiazstgraber: hum... I see. I'm trying to come up with a solution that would be usable now.11:12
mathiazstgraber: we have the checkCD test case, the LAMP test case.11:13
mathiazstgraber: is it possible to add a "DellPoweredge" test case ?11:13
stgrabermathiaz: yes11:13
mathiazstgraber: ok. And can I do this ?11:14
mathiazstgraber: or should I contact you ?11:14
stgraberbut everyone will see it (both server team and classical contributor) and some people may wonder what the hell is that when doing testing on server iso :)11:14
stgrabermathiaz: testcase management is still something I'm the only one who can do that (have to put that directly in the DB), there is still no UI for that (yet)11:15
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mathiazstgraber: ok. What about 'HW: DellPoweredge' ?11:15
mathiazstgraber: I don't have the list of hardware yet. Just discussing the possibilities.11:16
stgraberyes, that can be a temporary solution before you have your own tracker set (which I think would be better)11:18
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mathiazstgraber: yes. I agree with you.11:20
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mathiazstgraber: but that won't happen before sometime.11:20
stgraberWell, Mozilla team will have some kind of beta working for next Firefox update, but that'll still look like the ISO tracker (lot of ISO specifc things)11:21
stgraberWhat the spec for Gutsy+1 will mainly add is usage specifc modules and user profile options (btw, I'll add the server team as being interested in the new QA tracker in the Spec)11:22
mathiazstgraber: please do. We're interested that too.11:22
stgrabermathiaz: as you don't really need much "server testing" specific thing, I'll add you to the "beta test" which could soon be ready (that's just a matter or fixing some Admin UI, user UI is already ready)11:25
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mathiazstgraber: great. I guess I'll come up with new ideas/feature proposal once I start using the tracker... :)11:28
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justinwraybdmurray: May I have a word with you?11:41
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manchickenDoes anybody know whether or not the Ubuntu Dells (running 7.04) are running OEM with Beryl and/or compiz?11:47
Amaranthmanchicken: doubtful11:47
manchickenI asked Dell, and Dell told me that they're running Ubuntu.11:47
Amaranthafaik they use stock 7.0411:48
manchickenI would think so, too.11:48
manchickenAmaranth: Long time no talk.  You're the guy from UDS, right?11:48
manchickenThought so :)11:49
Amaranthmanchicken: do you know if it's a boy or girl yet?11:49
manchickenNot yet.11:49
manchickenWe'll know in one week.11:49
AmaranthGot pretty worried about you that last night11:49
manchickenIt was not a pretty trip home.11:50
manchickenGot well home and got much better real quick.11:50
LaserJockyou get sick?11:50
AmaranthI was thinking exhaustion11:50
manchickenYeah, evidently if you get foreign bacterial infections, drinking beer is not a good idea.11:50
manchickenAmaranth: Dehydration.11:50
AmaranthOh, even better :/11:50
LaserJockI got really sick at the end of UDS Paris11:50
manchickenAmaranth: I got a nasty water-borne bacterial infection.11:50
LaserJocktook me at least 2-3weeks to get better11:51
Amaranthmanchicken: That explains it, you're not supposed to drink the local water11:51
LaserJockbut UDS Sevilla was good for me (other than not a lot of sleep)11:51
manchickenI didn't.11:51
=== Amaranth only drank Coca-Cola :)
manchickenI think I got it from the shower.11:51
AmaranthCould be11:51
cjwatsonI think my illness at UDS-Sevilla was probably caffeine withdrawal11:51
cjwatsonthough it was a bit much for that, might have been a bug too11:52
manchickenWhat's scary is I was drinking about 2-3 liters of water a day.11:52
AmaranthThat hotel worker thought you were wasted11:52
manchickenThese Dells have the intel GPUs, but still run Intel wifi cards.11:52
manchickenDude, totally.11:52
manchickenThe security guy was about to arrest me until that Beryl guy's mom stopped in.11:53
Amarantherr, intel GPU + intel wireless is common11:53
manchickenYeah, unfortunately the intel wifi is binary-blobish.11:53
Amaranthmanchicken: Oh, I thought you were out when that happened :)11:53
Amaranthmanchicken: iwlwifi11:53
Amaranthonly needs firmware11:53
manchickenI was coming to when that happened.11:53
manchickenI wasn't out for long.11:54
Riddellinfinity: could you give back strigi11:54
manchickenLet that be a lesson.  Carry a thermometer with you when you travel, and take it easy when you're sick.11:54
NafalloAmaranth: isn't there some binary application as well?11:54
manchickenthat is, if homeland security will let you onto an airplane with a thermometer.11:54
=== Nafallo haven't ran restricted anywhere in quite a while, so doesn't know :-)
manchickenAmaranth: Yeah, and that firmware is binary-blob.11:55
mjg59Nafallo: Not for 496511:55
mjg59Yes for 394511:55
manchickenAnd the dells come with 394511:55
Amaranthmjg59: iwl3945 requires a daemon?11:55
Nafallomjg59: thanks. I thought I remembered something about it :-)11:55
Amaranthmjg59: I thought only ipw3945 did11:55
Nafallomanchicken: the Dells often let you choose, no?11:55
mjg59Amaranth: iwlwifi is not currently usable for 394511:55
manchickenNafallo: No11:56
Amaranthmjg59: I noticed :/11:56
manchickenmjg59: What is?11:56
manchickenmjg59: Please don't say ndiswrapper11:56
AmaranthNafallo: If they did it'd be a choice between ipw3945 and broadcom11:56
manchickenI will be *very* upset if I buy a machine and have to run ndiswrapper.11:57
LaserJockdoes madwifi work for most Atheros chips?11:57
manchickenI've never had one of those.11:57
manchickenI've got a broadcom.11:57
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manchickenWhich is the scourge of mankind.11:57
NafalloAmaranth: for D630 I could choose between 3945 and 4965...11:57
mjg59manchicken: ipw394511:58
=== Nafallo will have an Atheros tomorrow
manchickenNafallo: Dell is only giving out 3945, and I think System76 is doing much of the same.11:58
AmaranthNafallo: Oh, right, broadcom is only on the Windows versions11:58
NafalloAmaranth: only US has non-Windows versions probably :-)11:59
manchickenI ordered my dell on the 23rd of July, they still haven't shipped it or charged the money.11:59
LaserJockhmm, I suppose "Atheros Communications, Inc. Unknown device 001c (rev 01)" is not a good sign11:59
NafalloAmaranth: at least D630 only came with Windows :-P11:59
manchickenNafallo: I think Dell sells Ubuntu machines wherever they ship to normally.12:00
Nafallomanchicken: I ordered one 5th of July. When they delayed it until 22nd of August I called and told them I couldn't wait that long.12:00
manchickenWhat's the alternative?  Pay the windows tax?12:00
Nafallomanchicken: yes.12:00
Nafallomanchicken: or freedos12:00
AmaranthDude I think I read on a blog the other day about someone ordering from Dell when the announcement was made and still not having their laptop12:00
manchickenFreedos isn't a bad idea if the hardware is decent.12:00
manchickenBut I wanted a laptop, and I don't think they have any lappies with freedos12:01
manchickenAmaranth: They're saying they'll for sure have it out as of the 17th, so we'll see.12:01
manchickenI just hope they get it to be before we close on this house and move.12:01
Amaranthdon't believe the date on the website12:01
AmaranthUnexpected demand and all12:01
LaserJockI'd love to know what the sales figures have been12:02
bhalehi LaserJock12:02
NafalloAmaranth: mine was delayed cause they couldn't get the LCD in time :-)12:02
LaserJockbhale:  hi!12:02
LaserJockonce Walmart starts selling Dells with Ubuntu I'll be impressed12:03
LaserJockmight even try to buy one12:03
manchickenAmaranth: Well, they estimated more than three weeks out, I would hope they'd be right.12:04
LaserJockhola ajmitch12:04
mathiazhi ajmitch12:05
ijuz_i got btw. my Dell with FreeDOS12:05
manchickenijuz_: Was it a laptop?12:05
ijuz_the Ubuntu laptop offers aren't so cheap and halfway crappy stuff12:05
ijuz_yes, a Latitude D830 n-series (that means without OS basically)12:06
bhaleright, i buy latitude (business) over the home user stuff12:06
stgraberLaserJock: with only some ads in Newspapers (as they do with their weekly offers) would already impress me :)12:06
manchickenI don't know, the laptop I ordered looks awful nice on paper.12:08
LaserJockI think I'll just buy Apple from  now on12:08
manchickenThey do broadcom.  No thanks.12:09
ijuz_i asked in an apple store, you can't get apple laptops without OS12:09
manchickenAnd ATI12:09
LaserJockijuz_: well, I want the OS, that's partly the point12:09
stgraberI personaly bought one HP Compaq (enterprise product), which was SLED certified (but shiped with XP Pro and free upgrade to Vista business)12:09
manchickenijuz_: And you want the ATI and the Broadcom?12:10
LaserJockATI doesn't bother me so much, Broadcom might12:10
manchickenI've been on Broadcom and ATI for 2 years now.  Never again.12:10
manchickenAnd I'll never buy another HP again.12:10
ijuz_manchicken: no thanks... i have that in my latitude D810 ;)12:10
stgraberso I have both XP (school use), Vista (support for people not running Linux yet) and SLED certified (any Linux should run just fine)12:10
LaserJockI've got an HP desktop from walmart, it was a piece of junk, but from Walmart, what do you expect12:11
manchickenstgraber: That's fine, but I don't want to run windows.12:11
manchickenstgraber: I have no interest in buying them.12:11
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manchickenstgraber: I just want a standard Ubuntu OEM with hardware that works well with free software.  Dell came the closest to that.12:12
manchickenLaserJock: The HP is more of an indicator than Walmart.12:13
LaserJockmanchicken: what about System76?12:13
Amaranthmanchicken: what wifi works without firmware?12:13
Amaranthmy HP works great12:13
manchickenLaserJock: They're more pricy than Dell, but they're okay.12:13

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