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| coNP | @now Budapest | 02:17 |
|---|---|---|
| ubotu | Current time in Europe/Budapest: August 09 2007, 02:17:15 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 14 hours 42 minutes | 02:17 |
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| kraut | moin | 08:11 |
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| stgraber | @schedule Zurich | 02:11 |
| ubotu | Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 09 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 06:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 02:11 |
| zul | @schedule montreal | 02:17 |
| ubotu | Schedule for America/Montreal: 09 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 00:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 02:17 |
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| dendrobates | @schedule New York | 02:17 |
| ubotu | Schedule for America/New_York: 09 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 00:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 02:17 |
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| DarkRaven_ | . | 02:32 |
| mvo | @schule berlin | 02:38 |
| mvo | @schedule berlin | 02:38 |
| ubotu | Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 09 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 06:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 02:38 |
| juliux | schule? | 02:40 |
| Hobbsee | german school, probably | 02:40 |
| juliux | Hobbsee, i know;) | 02:41 |
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| evand | @schedule New_York | 03:58 |
| ubotu | Schedule for America/New_York: 09 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 00:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 03:58 |
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| kraut | @schedule berlin | 04:27 |
| ubotu | Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 09 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 10 Aug 06:00: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 15 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 04:27 |
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| jono | IMPORTANT NOTICE: if people are waiting for the training meeting - it will take place in #ubuntu-training instead | 04:35 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Aug 04:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | ||
| === bdmurray waves to kwwii | ||
| kwwii | hi bdmurray | 04:51 |
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| pitti | hello | 04:51 |
| kwwii | congrats on winning that geek contest thing again | 04:51 |
| calc | hdllo | 04:51 |
| kwwii | :p | 04:51 |
| bdmurray | heh | 04:51 |
| calc | erm hello | 04:51 |
| bdmurray | "geek contest thing" | 04:51 |
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| bryce | morning | 04:53 |
| === LongPointyStick gives up on this assignment completely. | ||
| agoliveira | Hi all! | 04:53 |
| Skiessi | hi | 04:53 |
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| ArneGoetje | Good Evening! | 04:54 |
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| evand | hi | 04:54 |
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| fabbione | yo | 04:55 |
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| BenC | fabbione: hey | 04:55 |
| fabbione | hey Ben | 04:56 |
| fabbione | still 4 minutes.. just the right time for a quick one.. brb | 04:56 |
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| === BenC smokes in the house now | ||
| mdz | howdy all | 04:56 |
| dendrobates | \o/ | 04:56 |
| BenC | hey mdz | 04:56 |
| === mvo waves | ||
| amitk_ | hey all | 04:57 |
| Mithrandir | afternoon | 04:57 |
| Hobbsee | greetings all, greetings mdz | 04:57 |
| pitti | fabbione: almost as quick as Al Bundy :-D | 04:57 |
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| === keescook waves "hi" | ||
| Skiessi | what happens after 2 minutes? | 04:58 |
| cjwatson | hello | 04:58 |
| BenC | pitti: lol | 04:58 |
| Klaidas | universe implodes :) | 04:59 |
| keescook | "don't cross the streams" | 04:59 |
| rodserling | Oh my! | 04:59 |
| Hobbsee | the sky falls in | 04:59 |
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| mdz | mathiaz: ping | 04:59 |
| Klaidas | linux becomes ready for the corporate desktop :-D | 04:59 |
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| seb128 | hi | 04:59 |
| asac | ola | 04:59 |
| BenC | rtg_: I see you've just gotten some toys | 05:00 |
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| mathiaz | mdz: pong | 05:00 |
| rtg_ | yep | 05:00 |
| tkamppeter_ | hi | 05:01 |
| Skiessi | hi | 05:01 |
| Riddell | hi all | 05:01 |
| fabbione | pitti: ehehe | 05:01 |
| jono | IMPORTANT NOTICE: if people are here for the training meeting - it will take place in #ubuntu-training instead | 05:01 |
| zul | just lurking | 05:02 |
| mdz | week's activity and agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070809 | 05:02 |
| Hobbsee | zul: we need to enlarge the lurkers cupboard, so more of us can lurk | 05:03 |
| mdz | first order of business is to welcome jono (who is participating in the parallel training meeting) to the team | 05:03 |
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| mdz | he will be continuing in his role as community manager, but will be working much more closely with the canonical ubuntu team going forward | 05:04 |
| jono | mdz: :) | 05:04 |
| === keescook hugs jono | ||
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| BenC | jono: welcome aboard | 05:04 |
| jono | keescook: :) | 05:04 |
| Mithrandir | oh, I was so looking forward to breaking him in on crazy packaging. :-) | 05:04 |
| jono | BenC: :) | 05:04 |
| jono | heh | 05:04 |
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| === asac hugs jono | ||
| mdz | in particular, he will be focusing on the developer community, helping to support MOTU and refine processes around it | 05:05 |
| jono | asac: :) | 05:05 |
| Hobbsee | oh neat, welcome, jono | 05:05 |
| Hobbsee | (and good luck) | 05:05 |
| === mvo hugs jono | ||
| === agoliveira hugs jono | ||
| mdz | so please feel free to share your thoughts about community with him, and welcome him if he comes to you to talk about any of this | 05:05 |
| jono | wow, such nice peple :) | 05:05 |
| === ogra hugs jono | ||
| Hobbsee | jono: will you be at the MOTU meeting tomorrow night, incidently? (if it exists?) | 05:06 |
| kwwii | one week in a hotel room together and he changes teams | 05:06 |
| jono | Hobbsee: I will check with my schedule if I can get along | 05:06 |
| Hobbsee | Friday, August 10, | 05:06 |
| Hobbsee | 2007, at 04:00 UTC. | 05:06 |
| asac | lol | 05:06 |
| Hobbsee | cool | 05:06 |
| ogra | kwwii, he was sharing with the distro team ? | 05:06 |
| Skiessi | What's MOTU? | 05:06 |
| Hobbsee | !motu | Skiessi | 05:07 |
| ubotu | Skiessi: motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | 05:07 |
| mdz | Skiessi: wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | 05:07 |
| kwwii | ogra: yepp | 05:07 |
| Skiessi | ...sure | 05:07 |
| mdz | ok, further hugs for jono can be directed to him after the meeting ;-) | 05:07 |
| Skiessi | thanks | 05:07 |
| jono | :) | 05:07 |
| mdz | pitti: would you like to give a brief release update to go with tribe 4? | 05:07 |
| pitti | I will probably write a post-mortem | 05:08 |
| ogra | heh | 05:08 |
| pitti | it was a mess, so we need to change the release policy slightly to improve that in the future | 05:08 |
| Hobbsee | ...with a stiff drink in one hand, to cope with the mess, yes | 05:08 |
| pitti | right now I moved most of the tribe-4 bugs to tribe-5 | 05:08 |
| pitti | so we have more serious bugs than ever | 05:09 |
| mdz | is that due to folks working to finish off features for feature freeze? | 05:09 |
| pitti | not that I blame you for it, we have features, those nasty bugs, and dapper.2 on top of it, but we have to balance it better | 05:09 |
| mdz | or because the bugs are particularly tricky? | 05:09 |
| pitti | partly because there is very little work in between the tribes on those bugs | 05:09 |
| pitti | and partly we got stuff like tracker, deskbar-applet, fusa, and new OO.o in two days before the tribe release | 05:10 |
| pitti | that happened in the previous tribes, too | 05:10 |
| Hobbsee | yes, it seems as if everyone goes "ooh, drat, we've gotten the announcement about a few days before the freeze. quick, fix everything!" | 05:10 |
| === Hobbsee noticed that for t3 as well | ||
| mdz | fusa? oh, fast user switching | 05:10 |
| iwj | mdz: The applet. | 05:10 |
| pitti | so I plan to freeze gutsy a lot longer in the future and do a mini feature-freeze | 05:10 |
| pitti | I see the point of getting new features tested | 05:10 |
| iwj | pitti: Sounds sensible. | 05:11 |
| mdz | Hobbsee: well, that is part of why we do milestones, to remind everyone to keep up ;-) | 05:11 |
| Hobbsee | mdz: this is true :) | 05:11 |
| pitti | but rushing them in and shipping them half-broken won't do us nor our users any good | 05:11 |
| seb128 | pitti: longer freeze doesn't sound good :/ | 05:11 |
| Hobbsee | mdz: but they dont - the bugs keep getting delayed, as they didnt get in in time | 05:11 |
| pitti | seb128: we tried with the short ones, and it spectacularly failed | 05:11 |
| seb128 | pitti: well, if those were not going to land now they were not going to be before feature freeze and I prefer to have those desktop changes tested this cycle than just before a LTS | 05:11 |
| pitti | and spending two days just firefighting two or three grave problems instead of preparing a good release doesn't help much either | 05:11 |
| pitti | seb128: right, I agree | 05:12 |
| pitti | but my point is: | 05:12 |
| Hobbsee | seb128: part of the problem with the long freeze is that people are still having large, major uploads in after the freeze. | 05:12 |
| pitti | features shuold be uploaded right after a test release and in between, not rushed right at the freeze time | 05:12 |
| === ogra would vote for one milestone less in the schedule as well ... | ||
| pitti | OO.o was a particular beast, and largely due to a misunderstanding | 05:12 |
| pitti | I won't generalize that to policy changes | 05:12 |
| mdz | the current release cycle is roughly 1 month planning, 3 months feature development, 2 months stabilization | 05:12 |
| mdz | do you think we need to adjust that balance? | 05:13 |
| pitti | mdz: no, I don't think so | 05:13 |
| seb128 | pitti: right, I agree, I have responsabilities in there but desktop is way too much for 1 people nowadays and I do what I can :/ | 05:13 |
| pitti | mdz: we need to adjust the micro-schedule, not the one for the entire release | 05:13 |
| mdz | oh, I meant to try MootBot for this meeting, but forgot | 05:13 |
| mdz | #startmeeting | 05:13 |
| MootBot | Meeting started at 15:06. The chair is mdz. | 05:13 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] | 05:13 |
| Hobbsee | mdz: it'd be nice if we could get it off the LP release cycle too, if possible. | 05:13 |
| pitti | seb128: I appreciate that | 05:13 |
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| Hobbsee | mdz: so that LP doesnt break when trying to release | 05:13 |
| iwj | Having a mini _feature_ freeze in addition to the archive freeze, before the milestone, seems eminently sensible. | 05:13 |
| pitti | seb128: just discussing alternatives | 05:13 |
| mdz | MootBot: sorry for not telling you at the beginning of the meeting | 05:13 |
| doko | rushing in OO.o at this point wasn't necessary, the release stopper bug which was present in 2.2 wasn't fixed in 2.3 | 05:13 |
| pitti | if we introduce a new feature, it shuold work well and make us proud | 05:13 |
| mdz | [TOPIC] release management and tribe-4 | 05:13 |
| MootBot | New Topic: release management and tribe-4 | 05:13 |
| pitti | announcing something that barely works is bad IMHO | 05:14 |
| pitti | MootBot? that's new | 05:14 |
| calc | doko: we finally have a firm grasp on what the bug is however and that was within the past couple days | 05:14 |
| pitti | doko: right | 05:14 |
| cjwatson | doko: the rationale was that it needed to land before UVF anyway and OOo needs as much testing as we can give it | 05:14 |
| mdz | MootBot is a tool that the Ubuntu Scribes team created | 05:14 |
| Hobbsee | pitti: it's from the scribes team | 05:14 |
| pitti | doko: but we only knew that *after* it was uploaded | 05:14 |
| mdz | to track meeting activity so they can summarize it | 05:14 |
| pitti | doko: before we assumed that it would fix the eternal hang | 05:14 |
| pitti | that was due to a bad misunderstanding | 05:14 |
| seb128 | pitti: the goal is to get those working nicely for gutsy, not to be perfect for whatever tribe they land to imo | 05:15 |
| calc | apparently depending on which libraries you have installed (not just -gtk) it may happen to work for a user, or not | 05:15 |
| cjwatson | I think we focus too much on having no major problems in a milestone, sometimes | 05:15 |
| pitti | seb128: maybe not perfect, but it should reasonably work at least | 05:15 |
| cjwatson | the goal is for major problems from one milestone to be fixed in the next | 05:15 |
| mdz | [LINK] week's activity and agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070809 | 05:15 |
| doko | pitti: well, in the past we did prepare new OOo versions in ppa archives first, and only did upload when it was working on all release archs. | 05:15 |
| MootBot | LINK received: week's activity and agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070809 | 05:15 |
| mvo | I agree with seb128 here (also the banlance needs to be maintained, we can not release too broken tribes) | 05:15 |
| cjwatson | not for no new ones to turn up | 05:15 |
| cjwatson | and I think it's inevitable that we only notice certain problems when people focus on testing | 05:16 |
| pitti | cjwatson: "focus too much on having no major problems in a milestone" -> TBH I think we have too many | 05:16 |
| pitti | cjwatson: I agree | 05:16 |
| === edujose [n=chatzill@136.Red-88-0-137.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| pitti | so this time I *did* some early testing last week | 05:16 |
| pitti | and CDs looked quite good | 05:16 |
| calc | gtk changed something that causes partial initialization of it to fail horribly instead of just happening to still work | 05:16 |
| seb128 | pitti: well, we either should perhaps target less features then and focus on bug fixing | 05:16 |
| iwj | cjwatson: Having a slightly longer period for people who've just rushed in an upload to say `oh wait no that's horridly broken let me fix it' might help a bit. | 05:16 |
| pitti | but then we rushed a few new features in | 05:16 |
| calc | which bit several programs including OOo, some OOo libraries probably do full init which causes it to work if they are around | 05:16 |
| pitti | seb128: well, then we'll slip on features, not good either | 05:16 |
| pitti | we just need to land them a little earlier | 05:17 |
| seb128 | right, easy to say | 05:17 |
| cjwatson | iwj: that's true. though it is the zeno's tortoise development model to some extent :-) | 05:17 |
| fabbione | pitti: isn't this why we have a release manager to blame? :P | 05:17 |
| pitti | seb128: I know :/ | 05:17 |
| seb128 | I know I've landed some things late but that was not bad willing | 05:17 |
| pitti | seb128: I'm not blaming you for anything | 05:17 |
| seb128 | that's the best I could manage without dholbach there to give an hand | 05:17 |
| mdz | pitti: perhaps it would help to send out an early "start getting things in now" before the "freeze is imminent" reminder? | 05:17 |
| pitti | the tribe's done, it reasonably works, but I think we can improve | 05:17 |
| pitti | and I'd like to discuss that with you isntead of deciding on my own | 05:17 |
| seb128 | pitti: right, but most of the late changes there are desktop things I've landed, so I feel it's part of my fault | 05:17 |
| Keybuk | mdz: what would be the timescale for that mail? | 05:18 |
| seb128 | but that was either that or not landing things this cycle | 05:18 |
| pitti | mdz: that might help, yes, together with a mini feature-freeze on Thursday before maybe | 05:18 |
| mvo | seb128: I think a lot of people had their share this time (my apt change included) | 05:18 |
| iwj | You could have a soft freeze "please try to avoid uploading your new feature after <x> if possible and consider whether the next milestone might not be a better target" ? | 05:18 |
| mdz | Keybuk: pitti's decision, I think | 05:18 |
| pitti | some ten days before release, I think | 05:18 |
| pitti | Monday the week before | 05:18 |
| mdz | pitti: perhaps some tools would help as well | 05:18 |
| pitti | we'll find out | 05:18 |
| mdz | perhaps if every time one ran dput, it would print the next week or so of the release schedule :-) | 05:19 |
| pitti | heh | 05:19 |
| mdz | to remind folks to plan ahead | 05:19 |
| seb128 | pitti: with a feature freeze 10 days ago I would never have managed to land the desktop changes and they would have been delayed to next cycle maybe | 05:19 |
| Keybuk | pitti: in the latter half of the release cycle, that's almost the day after the previous tribe :p | 05:19 |
| pitti | seb128: no, not feature freeze, announcement | 05:19 |
| pitti | seb128: mini-FF on Friday evening before tribe | 05:19 |
| cjwatson | iwj: I think we'd have to space milestones out more in order to have finer granularity | 05:19 |
| cjwatson | (which would not *necessarily* be a bad thing) | 05:19 |
| seb128 | pitti: k | 05:19 |
| mdz | pitti: if the problem was with the new features that seb landed, it doesn't sound like awareness is the problem, but simply too much work to be done in too little time | 05:20 |
| doko | and more freezes don't help for features which are unrelated to milestones | 05:20 |
| pitti | yeah, ten days advance announcement for new features works for three weeks | 05:20 |
| pitti | two weeks is very tight on its own | 05:20 |
| iwj | pitti: I see people working weekends to fix their Friday rush jobs :-). | 05:20 |
| === mvo is sure that will happen | ||
| cjwatson | iwj: *cough* | 05:21 |
| === Klaidas [n=klaidas@unaffiliated/klaidas] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] | ||
| pitti | doko: things like lpia don't really affect the CDs, so those are fine | 05:21 |
| cjwatson | pitti: but longer freezes do adversely affect bootstrapping jobs like that | 05:21 |
| doko | pitti: besides hold of single long building packages, so these affect lpia as well | 05:21 |
| pitti | mdz: right, in the end it simply boils down to lack of manpower | 05:21 |
| pitti | doko: s/long building packages/major packages that affect the CDs/ | 05:22 |
| pitti | maybe we should first define what we expect from a Tribe CD | 05:22 |
| mdz | pitti: blame france ;-) | 05:22 |
| doko | pitti: a library yes, more? didn't even change something for the milestone architectures ;-) | 05:22 |
| pitti | either 'something that you can use to show off Ubuntu' or 'something that (mostly) installs and is used to find bugs' | 05:23 |
| mdz | pitti: I consider the latter to be more appropriate | 05:23 |
| ogra | ++ | 05:23 |
| Hobbsee | and also being a reasonable time to dist-upgrade, without your system falling to pieces | 05:24 |
| mdz | installs/upgrades | 05:24 |
| pitti | mdz: but then we shouldn't make such a fuss about it with wiki pages and www.ubuntu.com announcements | 05:24 |
| mdz | pitti: we do want to communicate about it, so that it gets testing | 05:24 |
| pitti | and change the tone of announcements to be more developer-oriented | 05:24 |
| mdz | and previews of new features are a good reason for people to test it | 05:24 |
| cjwatson | Hobbsee: it's a very constrained point in time, though. about an hour after the release, all the frozen uploads land and it destabilises again | 05:24 |
| mdz | but they can expect things to be broken | 05:24 |
| cjwatson | Hobbsee: so by the time most people read the announcement, it's already unstable again | 05:25 |
| Hobbsee | cjwatson: this is true - hence it's more in the leadup to the tribe, i guess. | 05:25 |
| === beuno [n=martin@ubuntu/member/beuno] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| pitti | mdz: right, but if even we already know that your desktop doesn't even start often, or that feature X is broken or makes no sense (fusa on edubuntu etc.), what's the point in more testing? | 05:25 |
| Hobbsee | cjwatson: that depends on how long it takes to build everything, too ;) | 05:25 |
| Keybuk | pitti: finding other things that are wrong | 05:25 |
| pitti | mdz: (slightly exaggerating, of course) | 05:25 |
| pitti | Keybuk: right | 05:25 |
| mdz | pitti: we should advertise a feature iff it's able to be tested | 05:25 |
| pitti | Keybuk: that would be with the 'developer-oriented releases' | 05:25 |
| === Meyvn [n=Arjen@cp708387-a.tilbu1.nb.home.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| pitti | ok | 05:26 |
| mdz | pitti: I don't consider testing to be exclusively developer-oriented | 05:26 |
| mdz | many people in the user community do useful testing who are not developers | 05:26 |
| Keybuk | indeed; some of the best feedback I've had this cycle is from getting some pure users to test a Tribe Live CD | 05:26 |
| pitti | mdz: well, it may simply be that my quality expectations of an announced test CD are too high then :) | 05:27 |
| dendrobates | mdz: mathiaz and I were just discussing the need for uat, | 05:27 |
| bryce | Keybuk: same here | 05:27 |
| pitti | ok, thanks all, no need to block the entire meeting with that | 05:27 |
| pitti | I think I'll write some ideas and a summary to distro-team@ | 05:28 |
| mdz | dendrobates: uat? | 05:28 |
| mdz | pitti: ok | 05:28 |
| dendrobates | user acceptance testing. | 05:28 |
| pitti | oh, and most of all: | 05:28 |
| Hobbsee | pitti: could you CC me on that, if appropriate, as i'm interested in it as well | 05:28 |
| mdz | [ACTION] pitti to summarize and discuss release management questions by mail | 05:28 |
| pitti | thanks to the entire team for your great work and the night shifts! | 05:28 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: pitti to summarize and discuss release management questions by mail | 05:28 |
| === pitti hugs the team | ||
| mdz | pitti: I think ubuntu-devel would be more appropriate | 05:28 |
| ogra | pitti, i really think mvo deserves an extra hug from us all ;) | 05:29 |
| === seb128 hugs pitti, sorry for the hard time, you are doing a rocking work ;) | ||
| pitti | and calc, too! | 05:29 |
| ogra | yeah | 05:29 |
| === pitti gives an extra hug to mvo, calc, and seb128 | ||
| BenC | team hug! | 05:29 |
| === Hobbsee hugs all of those who *didnt* break compiz this release. | ||
| === mvo hugs pitti calc seb128 ogra | ||
| mdz | [TOPIC] (pitti) progress discussion for Ubuntu 6.06.2 point release | 05:29 |
| MootBot | New Topic: (pitti) progress discussion for Ubuntu 6.06.2 point release | 05:29 |
| pitti | mvo: yeah, indeed, no OMGnodesktop!! things this time | 05:29 |
| mvo | Hobbsee: that would be me! *yyyuuuahhhh* | 05:29 |
| Hobbsee | mvo: :D | 05:29 |
| asac | pitti: yes ... many thanks! | 05:29 |
| Keybuk | mvo: well done! | 05:30 |
| pitti | (oh god, I 0wn the schedule, it seems) | 05:30 |
| Keybuk | (for compiz in general) | 05:30 |
| mvo | we even fixed the nasty --replace issue | 05:30 |
| bryce | :-) | 05:30 |
| pitti | so, apart from all the fuss about new features and getting gutsy fixed, etc., we still need to get dapper.2 out | 05:30 |
| === mvo sends kudos to upstream | ||
| === Lure [n=lure@193.141.61.201] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| pitti | since we are falling behind on the dapper.2 schedule due to ENOTIME, I have a question, mostly to mdz | 05:30 |
| === calc hugs everyone, sorry for the mess :\ | ||
| cjwatson | two out of three of the installer fixes are in -proposed; the other is in my editor | 05:31 |
| pitti | should we rather cut down on the dapper.2 goals, or give this more time to solve them all and slip the end-august release? | 05:31 |
| mdz | pitti: what kind of tasks need to be done? | 05:31 |
| pitti | https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.06.2 (sort by status preferably) | 05:31 |
| mdz | pitti: making a good point release is more important than the tentative schedule | 05:31 |
| === popey [n=alan@ubuntu/member/popey] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| mdz | pitti: but the reason it was set was to avoid clashing with the beta | 05:31 |
| pitti | the kernel team is much over-represented in the assignee list, due to dapper.2 mostly being a 'get it working wiht new hw' thing | 05:32 |
| cjwatson | also two point releases are harder than one longer one | 05:32 |
| cjwatson | (oo-er) | 05:32 |
| mdz | pitti: looks like mostly kernel work? | 05:32 |
| BenC | Yeah, kernel work is in progress | 05:32 |
| pitti | mdz: I just didn't know how firm the date is wrt. business partners etc. | 05:32 |
| BenC | I expect to have a kernel to cjwatson by tomorrow to roll an ISO for testing | 05:32 |
| mdz | pitti: we haven't announced the date yet, so if you want to propose a more realistic one, pleas edo | 05:32 |
| pitti | mdz: many bugs are even simple things like loading a module in initramfs | 05:32 |
| cjwatson | BenC: note that I'm on holiday all next week | 05:32 |
| cjwatson | (and nowhere near a computer) | 05:32 |
| BenC | cjwatson: so am I | 05:33 |
| mdz | pitti: I explicitly didn't announce it at ubuntu live for this reason | 05:33 |
| pitti | some are quite tricky kernel fixes, and we have a couple of needsinfo bugs which still need judgement from kernel guys | 05:33 |
| pitti | mdz: good to know then | 05:33 |
| BenC | pitti: ah, I didn't realize there were any kernel bugs that weren't confirmed in the list | 05:33 |
| pitti | some changes in mysql, too | 05:33 |
| pitti | BenC: not many, I think #26940 only ATM | 05:33 |
| BenC | pitti: I'll review the bugs today | 05:34 |
| mdz | pitti: can you take some time to estimate an achievable schedule, and we'll discuss that? | 05:34 |
| pitti | those are the things were I'm not qualified to judge eligibility (or even feasibility) for dapper.2 | 05:34 |
| mdz | (probably based on Ben's review) | 05:34 |
| pitti | yes, can do | 05:34 |
| mdz | [ACTION] pitti to draft revised schedule for 6.06.2 | 05:34 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: pitti to draft revised schedule for 6.06.2 | 05:34 |
| pitti | BenC: can we meet at some time to go over the list and write down some estimations? | 05:34 |
| BenC | pitti: tomorrow, my morning, sound ok? | 05:35 |
| pitti | BenC: good for me | 05:35 |
| pitti | then we should also fine-tune assignees | 05:35 |
| BenC | [ACTION] BenC to review kernel realted 6.06.2 bugs | 05:35 |
| mdz | [TOPIC] pitti is going on holiday and needs people to fill in on some tasks while he is away | 05:35 |
| MootBot | New Topic: pitti is going on holiday and needs people to fill in on some tasks while he is away | 05:35 |
| === BenC wonders if that will work | ||
| mdz | [ACTION] BenC to review kernel realted 6.06.2 bugs | 05:35 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: BenC to review kernel realted 6.06.2 bugs | 05:35 |
| BenC | bot ACLs suck :) | 05:35 |
| mdz | BenC: no, according to the web page it's only the chair for that command | 05:36 |
| pitti | BenC: /nick privilege escalation \o/ | 05:36 |
| BenC | ah | 05:36 |
| mdz | I think that in general, MootBot should listen to actions from everyone, but automatically assign the action to the person ;-) | 05:36 |
| pitti | so, we need an experienced RM to take over tribe 5&6 and dapper.2 (cjwatson or Mithrandir?) | 05:37 |
| BenC | hehe, that will reduce the abuse | 05:37 |
| mdz | Mithrandir is going to be flat out on mobile during that time | 05:37 |
| pitti | not sure if Hobbsee has some time to assist? | 05:37 |
| mdz | I think he is already oversubscribed | 05:37 |
| Mithrandir | mdz: I am already fully booked, yes. | 05:37 |
| Hobbsee | pitti: maybe. it will depend on how much people want to work as a team, etc, and how much time i have | 05:38 |
| Hobbsee | looks like cjwatson just got voluntold to do it :P | 05:38 |
| pitti | I also expect tribe 6 to be much calmer, with FF and UVF being in place then | 05:38 |
| pitti | tribe 5 is probably tough again, with lots of features getting rushed in (necessarily) | 05:39 |
| cjwatson | cjwatson is not exactly undersubscribed either | 05:39 |
| Hobbsee | pitti: obviously, i'm not in a position to take control of it, unfortunately | 05:39 |
| pitti | Hobbsee: right | 05:39 |
| cjwatson | I can help, but not take full responsibility | 05:39 |
| Hobbsee | although i'd sure like to | 05:39 |
| mdz | pitti: we need someone who is a cdimage admin? | 05:40 |
| pitti | mdz: and an archive admin, and some soyuz knowledge | 05:40 |
| Keybuk | Riddell: would you be interested? you have the above and experience getting releases out | 05:40 |
| pitti | although I don't expect every tribe to take as much soyuz h4ck1ng as I had to do in the past two days :) | 05:40 |
| cjwatson | cdimage admin nature is easier, it's just the end-stage | 05:40 |
| mdz | [LINK] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.06.2 | 05:40 |
| MootBot | LINK received: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-6.06.2 | 05:41 |
| pitti | yeah, building CDs is simple | 05:41 |
| cjwatson | soyuz prodding is more frequently needed really | 05:41 |
| pitti | steering soyuz is more difficult | 05:41 |
| Hobbsee | pitti: presumably you're doing the release, afterwards? | 05:41 |
| Mithrandir | pitti: fwiw, I've yet to hack soyuz, ever. | 05:41 |
| pitti | and having some archive admin experience | 05:41 |
| Riddell | Keybuk: possibly, of course I'm busy with other things but then so is everyone else | 05:41 |
| mdz | pitti: could adam help with soyuz steering? | 05:41 |
| pitti | Hobbsee: I don't think so | 05:41 |
| pitti | mdz: absolutely, if he can make room for that | 05:41 |
| Hobbsee | pitti: oh, so that's going to fall to the person who will be selected too. big call, then | 05:42 |
| pitti | having our archive team and infinity assisting the RM with the soyuz guts will work | 05:42 |
| mdz | pitti: check with elmo, but he's qualified | 05:42 |
| mdz | pitti: is that satisfactory then? | 05:43 |
| mdz | Riddell(?) + archive team + infinity(or someone else who can drive soyuz) | 05:43 |
| pitti | Riddell: if you are ok with it, I would be happy with that | 05:44 |
| pitti | and spreading the archive/soyuz work out will help a lot, too | 05:44 |
| Hobbsee | that'll certainly be interesting | 05:44 |
| Riddell | I'm no soyuz expert, but other than than I can | 05:44 |
| pitti | so RM: please push that package into the archive -- archive/soyuz guys steer publisher/queue-builder/queue etc. | 05:45 |
| mdz | it will be a challenge to fill his shoes, but Martin deserves a honeymoon :-) | 05:45 |
| pitti | Riddell: infinity is, and he generally works on insane (IOW European) hours anyway | 05:45 |
| pitti | \o/ | 05:45 |
| Riddell | :) | 05:45 |
| cjwatson | Riddell: I think we have enough people with the necessary combination of domain knowledge and outright bravery for that | 05:45 |
| Hobbsee | pitti: all australians seem to work on european hours. australian hours suck! | 05:45 |
| pitti | I am allowed to take the laptop with me, but I'll be a divorced man if I'll sit at it all day :) | 05:45 |
| cjwatson | advice from a married man: DO NOT TAKE THE LAPTOP ON YOUR HONEYMOON | 05:46 |
| === agoliveira never had a honeymoon in 12 years of marriage :( | ||
| mdz | pitti: [ACTION] pitti to follow up with Riddell, archive team regarding release management during his holiday? | 05:46 |
| pitti | cjwatson: maybe that's a good piece of advice | 05:46 |
| fabbione | cjwatson: ++ | 05:46 |
| BenC | cjwatson: but if you have to, don't take it to bed | 05:46 |
| mdz | [ACTION] pitti to follow up with Riddell, archive team regarding release management during his holiday | 05:46 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: pitti to follow up with Riddell, archive team regarding release management during his holiday | 05:46 |
| BenC | it's not an enhancement to the mood for sure | 05:46 |
| calc | cjwatson: hehe, i did but had very sporadic internet access so it was ok ;) | 05:47 |
| mdz | Handholding the apport retracers; I filed RT#28728 to make this possible, and I will write some documentation about it; seb128 offered to help out here already | 05:47 |
| pitti | yeah, I still need to get that solved before other people can drive it | 05:47 |
| pitti | (nothing to discuss here, though) | 05:47 |
| mdz | ok | 05:47 |
| pitti | now with the tribe behind me I'll continue documentation writing | 05:47 |
| mdz | SRU bug handling and archive processing | 05:47 |
| asac | pitti: i have no experience with those so far, but would volunteer as well ... if there is documentation and a short introduction | 05:47 |
| pitti | mdz: oh, could you bump the priority of that RT perhaps? | 05:48 |
| seb128 | I'm happy to deal with the retracer | 05:48 |
| pitti | asac: appreciated | 05:48 |
| pitti | once the RT is solved, I'll give you a tutorial | 05:48 |
| pitti | and a howto for the occasional hiccups | 05:48 |
| asac | right ;) | 05:48 |
| mdz | pitti: will do | 05:48 |
| pitti | mdz: thank you | 05:48 |
| mdz | [ACTION] mdz to learn about the RT priority scheme and set an appropriate one for #28728 | 05:49 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: mdz to learn about the RT priority scheme and set an appropriate one for #28728 | 05:49 |
| pitti | seb128: we need an apport deskbar plugin! | 05:49 |
| pitti | btw, are those action points published somewhere by this cute little MootBot? | 05:49 |
| seb128 | pitti: to do what? | 05:49 |
| pitti | seb128: let's find out :) | 05:49 |
| seb128 | pitti: if you have a quick web browser bookmark you can already use it from deskbar ;) | 05:50 |
| pitti | seb128: find dups or so :) | 05:50 |
| pitti | seb128: (just kidding anyway) | 05:50 |
| Hobbsee | pitti: yes, they get published. somewhere. | 05:50 |
| mdz | (maybe) language pack building; this should not take any manual intervention actually, so it's not that crucial. | 05:50 |
| pitti | (nothing to discuss, will take that up with Arne) | 05:50 |
| mdz | ok | 05:50 |
| mdz | [TOPIC] Other business | 05:51 |
| MootBot | New Topic: Other business | 05:51 |
| mdz | anything else for the meeting? | 05:51 |
| Riddell | was I being volunteered for dapper or next tribe release management? | 05:51 |
| === fabbione wishes to say goodbye for his last distro team meeting | ||
| pitti | Riddell: you are now | 05:51 |
| === mvo waves to fabbione | ||
| doko | Riddell: soyzuz work without having access to the machines is limited | 05:51 |
| pitti | fabbione: *sheding a tear* | 05:51 |
| BenC | fabbione: you will be missed | 05:51 |
| Keybuk | Riddell: yes :-) | 05:52 |
| ogra | ciao fabbione | 05:52 |
| === dendrobates waves goodbye to fabbione | ||
| Hobbsee | Riddell: both, it seems | 05:52 |
| fabbione | :) | 05:52 |
| === bdmurray waves | ||
| tkamppeter | What about CUPS? Should we stay with 1.2.12 or move to 1.3? | 05:52 |
| bryce | cya fabbione! | 05:52 |
| kwwii | bye fabbione | 05:52 |
| pitti | tkamppeter: oh, good question; and s-c-p | 05:52 |
| === evand waves | ||
| amitk | bye fabbione | 05:52 |
| mdz | fabbione will not be going too far | 05:52 |
| pitti | tkamppeter: what kind of feedback did you get so far? | 05:52 |
| mathiaz | bye fabbione | 05:52 |
| ogra | pitti, student-control-panel ? | 05:52 |
| mdz | but perhaps not staying into the evening for distro meetings if he doesn't have to ;-) | 05:52 |
| pitti | ogra: system-config-printer | 05:52 |
| pitti | ogra: yay TLAs :) | 05:52 |
| fabbione | mdz: yeah... just the next room :) | 05:53 |
| asac | bye fabbione | 05:53 |
| ogra | pitti, ouch ... evil | 05:53 |
| pitti | TBH it's much less evil now | 05:53 |
| tkamppeter | pitti, unfortunately no feedback at all, and I have posted on the devel-discuass list, no answer. | 05:53 |
| ogra | pitti, luckily we renamed to thin-client-manager :) | 05:53 |
| pitti | we recently discussed some UI enhancements in #u-devel | 05:53 |
| ogra | pitti, i only meant the naming :P | 05:53 |
| pitti | tkamppeter: hm | 05:53 |
| Skiessi | why gutsy has still SDL 1.2.11? why not 1.2.12? | 05:53 |
| cjwatson | Skiessi: -> #ubuntu-devel | 05:54 |
| Skiessi | okay | 05:54 |
| mdz | pitti: perhaps you and tkamppeter can discuss on #-devel after the meeting? | 05:55 |
| tkamppeter | pitti, for the s-c-p I think we should take it, g-c-m shows also a driver4 selection screen and it also shows the USB backend entries for printers which are supported by HPLIP. So the add printer wizard is not much better. | 05:55 |
| tkamppeter | OK, mdz. | 05:55 |
| pitti | ok | 05:55 |
| mdz | [ACTION] tkamppeter and pitti to discuss CUPS version, etc. | 05:56 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: tkamppeter and pitti to discuss CUPS version, etc. | 05:56 |
| mdz | that's a wrap, folks | 05:56 |
| mdz | thanks, everyone | 05:56 |
| pitti | MootBot: --help | 05:56 |
| fabbione | bye bye | 05:56 |
| mdz | #endmeeting | 05:56 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 15:49. | 05:56 |
| BenC | bye everyone | 05:56 |
| BenC | thanks mdz | 05:56 |
| pitti | thanks everyone | 05:56 |
| mvo | thanks | 05:56 |
| kwwii | thanks all | 05:56 |
| evand | thanks | 05:56 |
| === kwwii [n=kwwii@p549552ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Konversation] | ||
| mdz | MootBot: your watch is slow | 05:56 |
| mathiaz | thanks all. | 05:56 |
| amitk | thanks & bye | 05:56 |
| ArneGoetje | Good night everyone... | 05:56 |
| pitti | mdz: how do we get the action items from that thing now? | 05:56 |
| ogra | thanks | 05:56 |
| agoliveira | Bye all. Now for the embedded meeting :) | 05:56 |
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| pitti | mdz: I guess /lastlog will work :) | 05:57 |
| seb128 | thanks | 05:57 |
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| ArneGoetje | pitti: when do you have time to fill me into the Language Pack thingy? | 05:57 |
| asac | bye | 05:57 |
| Keybuk | MootBot: aren't you supposed to do the "the summary is available at" thing? | 05:58 |
| Keybuk | YOUR MANUAL SAYS YOU DO!!! | 05:58 |
| ogra | *grin* | 05:58 |
| pitti | ArneGoetje: not before next week, I'm afraid; I still need to write some documentation before | 05:58 |
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| Hobbsee | Keybuk: second sign of insanity: yelling at a bot. | 05:58 |
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| pitti | MootBot: *bark* | 05:58 |
| ArneGoetje | pitti: ok. but maybe we should arrange some time for live chat, in case I have some questions :) | 05:59 |
| Keybuk | http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.20070809_1506.html | 05:59 |
| === Keybuk found it | ||
| pitti | ArneGoetje: yes, absolutely | 05:59 |
| pitti | shiny | 05:59 |
| ArneGoetje | pitti: good. please assing some time then, you are busier than me. ;) | 05:59 |
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| pitti | ArneGoetje: wait until you have worked in the distro team for half a year :-P | 06:00 |
| ArneGoetje | pitti: yeah... | 06:00 |
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| cjwatson | ArneGoetje: since I'm going on holiday next week, please remind me tomorrow to have a call with you, seeing as we haven't actually spoken since you started ;) | 06:01 |
| ArneGoetje | pitti: anyways, for me any time is fine as long as it is scheduled in advance. If necessary, I'll also do a night shift. | 06:02 |
| mdz | cjwatson: hmm, and henrik isn't back until 22 Aug | 06:02 |
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| ArneGoetje | cjwatson: ok, I will be available any time before 15:00 UTC. | 06:02 |
| ArneGoetje | cjwatson: BTW: do you have skype? should be cheaper and better quality to call. ;) | 06:03 |
| cjwatson | mdz: ouch | 06:03 |
| cjwatson | ArneGoetje: I don't, I'm afraid | 06:04 |
| cjwatson | ArneGoetje: we'll just keep the call short and shout :-) | 06:04 |
| ArneGoetje | cjwatson: :D ok, then... maybe it's better to call landline. | 06:04 |
| cjwatson | /init: /init: 1: cannot open /dev/fd0: No such device or address | 06:05 |
| === cjwatson peers at caspe | ||
| cjwatson | r | 06:05 |
| ogra | oh, wow, running the live system from multiple floppies ? | 06:06 |
| Amaranth | it'd only take 500 of them, no big deal | 06:07 |
| pitti | cjwatson: oh, you see that? I have that on my gf's computer, but I blamed the broken floppy in it | 06:08 |
| ArneGoetje | ok, if tehre is nothing else to discuss with me, I'm going to bed now. :) | 06:09 |
| bryce | cya | 06:10 |
| cjwatson | pitti: happens in vmware with no floppy attached | 06:10 |
| cjwatson | just wondering what the heck is looking at floppies in the first place | 06:10 |
| pitti | wow | 06:11 |
| pitti | cjwatson: maybe it's initramfs looking for an UUID of its root fs, and just happening to probe it or so? | 06:11 |
| === ArneGoetje yawns and waves good bye | ||
| cjwatson | could be | 06:11 |
| pitti | cjwatson: oh, wait, that's booting the live cd, right? no UUID there | 06:14 |
| cjwatson | live CD, yes | 06:14 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Aug 04:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 11 Aug 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 14 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 14 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 15 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 16 Aug 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | ||
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